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Laura, with your permission I would like to share with your readers a letter I sent to Mat-Su Regional Medical Center, the facility where Palin claims she gave birth to Trig. Last month I sent the hospital a copy of my article on Palin and the press, along with a cover letter, seeking comments. (You may recall that on Oct. 3, 2008, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson – or more likely, some lawyer writing on her behalf – had artfully referred to Palin’s “home community hospital,” a seeming reference to Mat-Su that nonetheless made it possible to avoid naming any hospital as Trig’s place of birth.)

My letter reached Mat-Su on August 12, per the USPS tracking number. I addressed it to the hospital’s director of marketing (i.e. head of PR), Sterling Grover. Here is the letter:

Dear Mr. Grover,

I have attached a copy of an article I will probably publish in the next month. I am sending it to you as a courtesy.

As you will see, Mat-Su Regional Medical Center looks in the article as if it may have been (possibly inadvertently) involved in a hoax relating to the alleged birth of Trig Palin by Sarah Palin on April 18, 2008, at your hospital.

I am aware that HIPAA regulations prevent you from commenting without a patient’s permission on any lawful activity that occurred. On the other hand, it may be that such regulations would not apply in the case of fraud.

Please answer the following questions, even if the answer is “no comment” or some variant of that. For convenience, please feel free to send your responses to me by email at brad.scharlott@gmail.com.

              .         1.            Can you state unequivocally that no employee of the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center participated in fraudulent activity relative to the alleged birth of Trig Palin by Sarah Palin on April 18, 2008?

              .         2.            Can you state unequivocally that no employee or board member of Valley Hospital Association participated in fraudulent activity relative to the alleged birth of Trig Palin by Sarah Palin on April 18, 2008? [VHA largely runs Mat-Su.]

              .         3.            Can you state unequivocally that no physician then on active status at Mat-Su Regional Medical Center participated in fraudulent activity relative to the alleged birth of Trig Palin by Sarah Palin on April 18, 2008?

              .         4.            Is it possible a former board member of Valley Hospital Association could have stayed in a room of your hospital on April 18, 2008, without your staff being aware of it? In other words, is it possible for a former board member to obtain a room at your hospital without going through the usual check-in procedures?

Changing directions here, on April 28 of this year Dave Weigel posted the following at Slate.com:

Yesterday … I called up Mat-Su Regional Hospital, where, according to contemporary media reports, Trig Palin was born. I was patched through to the family birthing center. The director had left for the day, sadly, so I spoke to a unit clerk who answered my questions but politely asked for me not to use her name.

Why'd I call the hospital? One of the original concerns Sullivan had with the Trig Palin story – one that's based on an absent fact, and not on innuendo – was that Mat-Su Regional did not list Trig Palin's birth on its website. There's a portion of the web site, the baby nursery, where newborns are listed. Trig, born on April 18, 2008, is not there. And that's somewhat curious. So: Is every baby born at the hospital listed on the web site?

"No, it's not automatic," said the clerk. "Truth be told, we do take security photos of all the babies, but if the parents want their babies listed on the web site, they can request it. We're really sensitive about it, though. I think the hospital took up the policy not to publish names automatically because of possible baby kidnapping issues."

The clerk, realizing that Washington, D.C. reporters don't typically cold call her hospital, asked me if this call was about "our former governor." It was. Was Trig Palin born there?

"Oh, that's not even a question," she said. (If my reception was better I could have heard her eyes rolling at this point.) "Yes. Everybody here remembers that. Yes, this is where the Palins come -- this is their family hospital."

So, an employee of your hospital apparently said it’s “not even a question” whether Trig was born at your hospital, adding; “Yes. Everybody here remembers that. Yes, this is where the Palins come – this is their family hospital.” Please answer the following:

              .         1.            Is it the policy of your hospital to allow clerks to anonymously make statements like the one Mr. Weigel says a clerk made to him?

              .         2.            Do your employees receive instructions or training concerning giving out patient information that may violate HIPAA regulations?

              .         3.            Do you confirm the veracity of the statement Mr. Weigel attributed to your clerk concerning the birth of Trig Palin at your hospital?

              .         4.            If not, what is the hospital’s position on the question of whether Trig Palin was born at Mat-Su?

              .         5.            Do you believe Mr. Weigel wrote truthfully about what he alleges happened?

I ask that you answer each question I have posed. If you do not answer each question specifically, I will feel free to write that you “failed to answer” or “choose to ignore” or some similar construction. I am requesting all the above information under relevant Alaska and federal Freedom of Information statutes.

Thank you so much.

Sincerely yours, [etc.]

I wasn’t counting on getting a response, so I wasn’t devastated by the fact that I did not get one. I’m guessing Mr. Sterling passed the letter and article on to the hospital’s legal counsel, who instructed him not to say a word.

But let’s just examine what Mat-Su’s silence here implies. In my first set of questions, I essentially ask Mr. Sterling if he can state that no one connected to the hospital engaged in fraudulent activity on the day Trig was reportedly born. How depressing it must be for a PR flack to not be able to deny wrongdoing by his employer. But I hear his silence loud and clear.

Mr. Sterling’s silence concerning the second set of questions, relating to Weigel, is just as dismaying. The head of PR can’t even defend his people from a charge of gross violation of HIPAA rules, which is what happened if that clerk truly said what Weigel alleges.

Also, I have to say that if Weigel told the truth about what the clerk told him, then I think he got played. He claims he made a cold call, but I simply don’t believe it was totally “cold” – I would bet someone recommended he call the hospital around a certain time, and that the scenario he described then followed a script. (Of course, Weigel could have lied, but why would he do so?)

So, Laura, I am interested in what your readers make of Mat-Su’s role in all this, and of the hospital’s silence to my letter.

One more thing: that letter was not my first effort to get a comment from the hospital. Several months ago, I sent similar questions via a questions box at the hospital’s website; I got no response then either. So, Mr. Grover, for the third time, I am now asking you to respond to the questions raised in this post.

 


Comments

Rationalist
09/26/2011 08:44

Brad, it's heartening to see you doing the footwork that should have been done long ago.

06/14/2012 06:07

Interesting blog about the home community hospital.Thanks for the blog post.

The blog is related to the home community hospital.I like the blog post to read.Thanks a lot.

10/11/2012 21:51

Medical Center looks in the article as if it may have been (possibly inadvertently) involved in a hoax relating to the alleged birth of Trig Palin by Sarah Palin on April 18, 2008, at your hospital.

Brad Scharlott
09/26/2011 08:46

So, Sterling Grover should learn of this post very soon. Do you all think he will now say something?

Thanks, Rationalist.

08/23/2012 23:39

Thank you for posting the great content…I was looking for something like this…I found it quiet interesting, hopefully you will keep posting such blogs…

10/03/2012 06:37

I like the writing style. It is just perfect. The blog post is very connective and attractive. All the information I found in post is very useful. Thanks a lot.

Molly
09/26/2011 08:49

Interesting timing with Joe's book addressing the pregnancy. :) Grover won't say a word and will hope this all goes away.

09/26/2011 08:53

Brad, I'm glad to see you're doing this. But I have to admit that if I were MatSu I would not respond either.

They're between a rock and a hard place. If the Palins are as vindictive as reported, then MatSu would not want to cross them. But they would certainly not want to answer to questions allegating fraud unless they absolutely had to.

How do we make them have to? I don't know but continuing to press has to help.

NSG
09/26/2011 08:55

Brad, you have a real gift for getting people to paint themselves into their own corner!

Going to the Marketing Dept was masterful. You're so right -- I speak as a marketing veteran -- they have to go to great pains NOT to respond and put themselves in a good light.

A great next step would be to keep making this effort more visible. What additional LOCAL pushes can be made to continue the pressure?

Essentially, Palin has put Mat-Su between a rock & a hard place. (She's the rock. Their public image -- critical to a local hospital! -- is the hard place.) MSRMC's best strategy to date has been to avoid the question and hope it goes away, thereby avoiding any Palin Mafia fallout and hoping the public doesn't notice their complicity.

But there's an opportunity to firm up the "hard place" by publicly calling their credibility into question, and these questions and tacit answers could make it harder for them to maintain their silence.

Here's a chance for our local folks to step it up, because you are their customers, and they need your confidence! Ask the questions. Raise the issue directly to MSRMC, local blogs & media, etc. It doesn't take a big furor to make hospital PR people REALLY uncomfortable!!!

Also, too, Brad, how can we get this out to a broader audience? Can we get Andrew Sullivan to pick this up? Not that we don't respect Laura & her blog, but if we can get it someplace better known, it will be that much more pressure on MSRMC.

Imagine if they start publicly distancing themselves from the Wild Ride!

Karen
09/26/2011 08:58






[crickets]

He will not respond. They will continue to ignore all queries. Most media do a horrible job of covering their local community hospitals (even though they are often the biggest employers), so there really is no interest from the media to seek this out.

If the hospital did want to clear their good name and put together a press conference stating that a patient was NOT born there, they would certainly be able to do that within the HIPAA mandate. Likewise, if their spokesman wanted to clear up this murky issue as false, he could contact the patient for permission to confirm the birth on the date and location in question.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 08:59

I emailed Sullivan. We'll see.

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 09:04

Would it make any difference if a letter came from a lawyer, inquiring about a hoax? Wouldn't that necessarily have to be answered by the hospital's counsel?

Has a suit ever been brought against a hospital for fraud?

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 09:06

I forgot to thank you, Brad, for being professional.

Redwood Palinizer
09/26/2011 09:08

Great job,Brad! I still think the key to finding out about the MatSu involvement is to find out who their insurance company was at the time of the hoax. Contact them and ask the question of whether MatSu was insured to take on such a high risk delivery. Get it in writing. I have a feeling that there has been a mass cover-up but if you can get the type of insurance they had and show that they weren't insured to deliver Trig, then you have a very, very serious bit of information. No hospital would take that risk. I would also try to find out what type of insurance/malpractice or otherwise that CBJ had at the time.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 09:09

Even if the hospital's board of directors wasn't packed with the religious fundamentalist right (which it is), they will say nothing. I wouldn't either in their place.

"Clear their good name"? Why? Silence has worked fine so far, and it is likely to work even better in the future, unless and until some big incriminating fact comes forth.

Seems clear to me that everyone has been instructed to stay silent. CBJ, MatSu hospital, SP, the MSM. And they have -- as we see from the disappearing of the Behar/McG video and the NPR refusal. It's worked just great for the past 3 yrs.

No matter what anyone says, it will make quotable news. Silence does not. All these entities are following legal advice to remain silent, is my guess.

Plus, remaining silent is the best approach for keeping one's options open for later spin-doctoring, depending on which way the ole cat jumps.

However, I think it's just very fine work to document the silence via your letters, Brad. Thank you!

Jo
09/26/2011 09:11

Excellent job Brad.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 09:13

Andrew is talking about Joe McGinnis' book in his first "Ask Me Anything" segment:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/ask-me-anything.html

09/26/2011 09:18

Redwood, those ideas are excellent if the insurer can speak to the questions you raised.

Brad Scharlott
09/26/2011 09:21

Thank you, all, for your kind words. Maybe our insurance ace could address that question about whether Mat-Su's insurance would have covered the hospital for such a delivery.

That reminds me, CBJ's husband was director of the VHA board for a time, and he is a bigwig in health care insurance. Could he have been the one who apparently got Palin a room in the maternity suite?

Ottoline
09/26/2011 09:23

Someone on the earlier thread asked about privacy on the web. The smart folks, like Goog's Eric Schmidt, tell there is no privacy and we should just get over it.

My own experience, in persistently searching out people or items of interest from time to time, confirms this. I don't have any special tools, but it's just amazing how one can connect the dots and find oneself right in front of a person's house via Goog, reading about his/her financial matters, etc. And if I had Murdoch's resources I'm sure a whole new world of snooping opens up.

Pretty scary. I guess snail mail, but I bet there are a ton of things one can do to snoop there, too, if one really studies it.

Susan in MD
09/26/2011 09:23

Hi Brad,

You are doing an awesome job.

I think Redwood Palinizer has a great idea in contacting whoever insures the hospital.

I think, IMHO, what you need here are "outside" people with a Vested Interest in the Answers looking at MatSu for them. An Insurer of the hospital (malpractice?) would be one of them.

An agency that Accredits the hospital would be another. I believe JCAHO is the big one. I worked at a Level 2 (Trauma/ER) Hospital for 2 yrs and that was the coveted/must-have accreditation. I'm sure there are others.

I'm also thinking along the lines of anyone that would take complaints regarding a hopital's conduct, as well. State agencies, perhaps.

The only potential problem with any of these is that the results of their investigations may NOT be public. We might not know the outcome because of any number of privacy issues. While the hospital would be disciplined for any misdeed, WE would not succeed in uncovering the truth.

Just thinking out loud...

jeff
09/26/2011 09:24


Good Article, Brad.

If I recall correctly, Weigel was one of the "Journo-Listers" who, in order to appear "objective" or "not lib'ral", essentially gave cover to Palin by agreeing to avoid discussion of the Tri-G birth issue.

I wonder if he still maintains that there is no "there" there.

If Weigel had given at least a half-ass effort in investigating the issue, he might've actually put part of the issue to bed for some thinking folks.

Instead, he obviously had no interest in seeking the truth, and his methodology ensured he wouldn't even come close to the truth unless it was wrapped for him with a bow on top.

It takes a big man to admit he was wrong about something like this, but a shill never feels any shame. Reckon he still stands by the efficacy of his "due diligence"?

jeff
09/26/2011 09:27


AK Dispatch, ADN, Frontiersman, et al might be interested in getting an answer since it is THEIR community that the hospital is serving. Just sayin'.

everspring
09/26/2011 09:28

Why are we assuming there was a high-risk delivery?

Aren't we mostly of the belief that SP did not give birth to Trig? Then all her statements about finding out about the DS early is probably not true and was more likely a dog whistle to her base.

Bristol (or someone else) gave birth to Trig - not knowing he would have DS.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 09:29

Thx for Sullivan link. I wish he would write instead of video. Easier to scan and re-find things. But good to experiment. So glad he remains on the case, in spite of NPR's abdication.

Virginia Voter
09/26/2011 09:29

Would it be possible to file some sort of complaint against the hospital for birthing A premature special needs Trig Palin seeing as they are not certified to do so? Is there a process in place in Alaska for that?

Seems to me that would force their hand. Either they verify, on the record that Trig Palin was born there on April 18 when they were not licensed to do so, or they defend themselves by not corroborating Sarah's pregnancy fairy tale.

09/26/2011 09:32

Brad, seriously ...

An inference from an absence of evidence can and will be used in an argument as an appeal to ignorance. Just because I won't show you my birth certificate doesn
't imply that I am hiding something. Did you consider what the other implication
s of a non-answer to your questions might be? Did you give them a deadline?

Your letter is confrontational. There is some value in asking probing questions
rather than direct questions.

Does your request for FOIA information conform to the state's process for reques
ting such information?

mitch
09/26/2011 09:34

I just sent an email to Rachel Madow asking for an explaination as to why they refuse to have Joe McGinnis on any of their shows. Your letter needs to be brought to the attention of someone who is willing to take Ms.Palin on. I do not understand why MSNBC won't for they are the perfect forum.

09/26/2011 09:35

Thank you for the link to the Andrew Answers Questions feature. I enjoyed listening to it!

09/26/2011 09:39

everspring, there's no assumption that there was a high risk delivery at Matsu Reg. SP stated far and wide that she delivered the child there. There were phtos taken of the baby there. A delivery of a high risk baby either happened at a hospital unprepared for and likely uninsured for such a delivery, or it didn't and there's no exposure. Either it was a hoax or Matsu Reg. willingly accepted responsibility.

jeff
09/26/2011 09:43

Has anyone ever made an official inquiry to the AG or the AK Div of Insurance?

The director preceded Palin's election, so perhaps she has some independence from all of the ass-kissers in the Palin and Parnell administrations.

It appears that the Div of Ins would have to investigate and release some of the findings is fraud exists.

Just a thought if some evidence can be gleaned that the insurance experts could use to support an inquiry that, by law, could not be ignored by the proper supervising authority.

Contact info is below:


Alaska Division of Insurance
Linda S. Hall, Director (since 3/3/03)

Reporting Fraud
If you have information of suspected fraudulent insurance information, the division website provides the information necessary to commence an investigation. You may call (907) 269-7900 or 1-800-867-8725 to speak with an investigator. You are asked to provide a detailed letter explaining the situation and why you believe that the person(s) may have presented to an insurer a written or oral statement in support of a claim for payment or other benefit under an insurance policy, knowing that the statement contains false, incomplete, or misleading information concerning a matter material to the claim. The corroborating documentation requested included: The name, address, and telephone number of any suspects or witnesses; color copy of any photos or video concerning the matter; and the name of the insurance company, if known.

Melly
09/26/2011 10:07

Brad, you are gutsy and articulate.

We can think of all kinds of excuses for Mat-Su's failure to respond to your letter. But should we really have to? I'm kind of tired of finding excuses for this entirely anomalous pregnancy--excuses for why Palin had a flat belly, for why she flew during labor, why she dismissed her security detail, why there's not picture of her in the hospital, etc, etc. Mat-su's failure to respond is exactly what it looks like: NOT NORMAL, and especially not normal for what should have been a joyful occasion for the hospital and for an extremely popular right-to-life governor. The questions should be easy for the hospital to answer unless the truth is something other than what Palin has claimed.

DKey
09/26/2011 10:12

Thanks, Professor Scharlott!! Keep going!

Lisa G
09/26/2011 10:20

I have questioned from the very beginning how HIPPA can be applied to a lie, a hoax? Are there any experts on HIPPA out there who can comment on this question? If I lie about giving birth in a hospital, how are those that know of the lie required to abide by HIPPA?
Lisa G

Ferry Fey
09/26/2011 10:28

"SP stated far and wide that she delivered the child there." -- Tom

Er, except when she stated that she gave birth to him in Anchorage.

leva
09/26/2011 10:29

Unless there is some advantage to the hospital for answering this letter, I can't see why they would bother.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 10:48

I'm going to consult my in-house attorney (that would be my husband) about whether an outside party can sue Mat-Su for fraud. But folks - this is just the kind of attack that seems likely to eventually work. Not to be too nerdy, but one of these shots is going to make it in the exhaust port. Or, for a less geeky reference: it just takes one straw to finally break the camel's back.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 10:48

I like the questions about Weigel's article. A hospital employee spoke to the press about a patient. I think there's solid basis for a follow-up to the Director of Marketing about this.

I'm not so sure about the first set of questions. Would a Director of Marketing have direct knowledge of employee disciplinary actions or internal fraud investigations? I suspect not. In corporate PR, I can't image an investment bank's Director of Marketing answering these types of questions about fraudulent trading.

Regarding #4, if CBJ had admitting privileges at MatSu, couldn't she admit Palin for almost anything--for suspected labor, or dehydration, or dizziness, etc? In my own life, my father's family physician met him at the hospital to ensure his admission for a possible blood clot. His physician did not want my father stuck in ER. His doctor made sure he was admitted quickly and received treatment ASAP. My father was not a Governor or a hospital board member.

Ivyfree
09/26/2011 11:02

Well done, Professor Scharlott. Well written. Continued pressure: good! At some point, somebody's going to get tired of dealing with the issue.

That said, I'm sure the letter went to the hospital's legal department and they've read it, said, "There's no trace of proof," added that you have no standing, not being a community member or likely to ever be hospitalized there, and filed it away.

I hope the unit secretary didn't get fired, but (now I think about it) she probably didn't. I'm sure she got spoken to about HIPAA, but firing her could have resulted in a disgruntled ex-employee speaking her mind.

Still, the only way to win is to keep trying. Little by little the truth emerges. Unless Willow gets really pissed off and makes good her threat to tell whose purse she found the ultrasound in.

Betsy S
09/26/2011 11:03

Brad's letter may be somewhat confrontional, but we have witnessed over three years the many unexplained photos to confuse the validity of the birth claim: the flat and huge bellies on SP, a large baby held by the Heaths in hospital hall, the tiny baby held by a young Levi in a hospital hall, Ruffles held in Palin kitchen, Ruffles held at baby shower, some other baby in God's birth announcement, various doll shapes in SP's sling (she squeezes its head in one video), and a huge DS baby hauled out at RNC (not a four-month-old).

ACG
09/26/2011 11:09

Sterling Grover is a new hire, he was employed with an imaging company who was recently purchased by Providence Hospital. I am sure Sterling is aware of the controversey surrounding Palin, as he lives in the state of Alaska but probably not the best person to lambast. If I were you I would seriously look into the board of the Hospital especially Dr. Lund, Dr. Boston etc.

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 11:12

Does a parent company own the hospital now? If so, mightn't they be more likely to respond or probe allegations of a hoax. A parent company wouldn't care hill o'beans about Sarah Palin.

Mightn't a sustained slow, steady attack produce results?

09/26/2011 11:14

Three years of following one person after another trying to get straight answers from the people who live and work in Wasilla about the birth of baby Trig has been like watching an entire community where each and every resident suffers battered women's syndrome.

Perhaps if questions were worded in such a way as to give people a reason to answer honestly and a sense of sanctuary, we'd have better luck.

Sharon_Too_Also
09/26/2011 11:15

Re: Andrew Sullivan's new video feature.

I'm thrilled - now his words have a chance to go viral in a way that print just doesn't. Here is a golden opportunity - he didn't mention Babygate in the first one on SP but we all know his stance on it and I don't think he'll hesitate to do so with the right question.

He strongly implicated the DC MSM for their lack of interest in vetting her - he can really chew them out over Babygate.

To repeat: this is thrilling.

09/26/2011 11:22

Sorry about the double post but I was just thinking... maybe there's a different angle from which to approach the hospital.

There can't have been that many births between the relevant hospitals (Mat-Su, Anchorage) from December 2007 to March 2008. What would it take to match each birth with a parent(s) - and see what's left over?

Molly
09/26/2011 11:26

From IM.

Anonymous said...

BlueTx,

If you asked me a question, I didn't see it. Don't you think it's maybe, possibly, in the realm of POSSIBILITY that one post out of nearly five hundred fell through the cracks?

But honestly, I know who you are and I know you do nothing but stir up trouble on these blogs. Considering Sarah's ties to Giddings, Texas...it's no small coincidence that you live there, in my humble opinion. So you can save asking your question as I likely wouldn't address it on principle.

GRYPHEN...thank you so much, I just wanted to hear specifically "Gryphen's email did not get hacked". With all the Murdoch stuff going on and as desperate as Sarah & Co are getting, I just needed a little assurance about my safety.

Am in Anchorage for a meeting but I will check in later and Gryphen I will include what I posted here that ended up being deleted when emailing the rest of the stuff.


Today Sarah was railing against Laura Novak (again) insisting she doesn't even go to "that woman's blog"...and then she ended her email with "like she would be getting 4 and 500 comments if she wasn't talking about Trig!"

I thought I would bust a gut laughing. "I've NEVER been to that blog nor have I read any of the 400 comments!"

Nobody cared enough to wrote back "if you don't go there how do you know how many comments there are?"

But in about three days, Sarah will suddenly sit up and go "Oh, SHIT!"


-MeAgain

DebinOH
09/26/2011 11:35

Well, my personal opinion is that they will never release anything, period, end of story. The only way I think anyone could ever get anything out of them is if someone involved in this shenanigans was involved in a law suit of some sort and they are issued a subpoena.

If anyone ever does talk it will be an employee (either to get back at the Palins or the hospital) or perhaps a disgruntled employee of SP or an ex-friend. I still think that she kept this a huge secret from everyone so I doubt many people would know.

Since she was a governor I am sure she could have gotten major special treatment at the hospital. All CBJ had to do was say that no one was allowed in that room & the baby stayed as well. Security would be an issue so if I was a nurse I would have bought it.

I still think that even if the birth certificate is in their name the date is not the same as the one we all know. I cannot think of any other reason for her to not show the birth certificate.

Good luck Brad, keep plugging away!

Comeonpeople
09/26/2011 11:50

Great job Brad. This is the road tp pursue. MatSu and CBJ. Can you next publicly question why a FP not qualified for high rosk deliveries attrnded a high risk birth at a hospital not equipped tp handle the myriad of misfortunes that could have occurred? I am on my small phone so sorry for typos .

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 11:52

@palinoia or @katietaylor, o/t but the insurance angle keeps nagging at me.

Can you address the process validating birth certificates? Assume I fill out Open Enrollment paperwork for a child but make a "typo" when I enter his birth month. Then I submit a birth certificate which shows I am a legal parent but the birth month is different than my enrollment paperwork.

How possible/likely is it for an incorrect birth month to be caught during open enrollment? How many people actually see the birth certificate during the open enrollment process?

Comeonpeople
09/26/2011 11:57

@Virginia V oter: i made a jcaho complaint for birthing a HR pregmancy there. the statute of limitayions on my complaint was in effect. But as i have said before, they stated if enough people complained yhey could look at it ... So comeonpeople complain

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 12:12

@comeonpeople - tell me how, more.

mitch
09/26/2011 12:20

What is Me Again talking about?? What's going to happen in 3 days? Is Me Again the same as this Annon person? Inquiring minds need to know. (No pun intended.)

Dangerous
09/26/2011 12:21

I think Weigel made it up, not that it really matters because it was all hearsay anyway, and unattributed at that. (Seems to me he slammed Joe M. for doing the same thing!)

If MSM is anything it's the double standard for deciding when something is true or not. The interesting thing would be what Weigel would report if he had gotten the same non-response as Brad has reported. Would that be evidence to him that Mat-su just decided that it wasn't worth responding to because the issue was so ridiculous or that they were hiding something?

No matter, he attributed a single response from an unnamed source to promote the narrative he wanted to pursue. Is it even journalism any more? No. It's gussied-up fiction, a narrative suitable for consumption from the largest target audience possible.

The irony is that a fictional account based on this story would certainly capture a wider audience, and the faked pregnancy would be seen as completely plausible. In this case, truth is stranger than fiction and that doesn't sit well with MSM, for lots of reasons. The narrative of us being loonies for "believing" a crazy conspiracy theory plays a lot better.

Compare this to the Obama BC stuff. Of course it was ridiculous on its face, and courts ruled as much early on. They had no evidence, just speculation and challenges to affirmative evidence that he was born just as reported.

On the other hand, citizen journalists like us, and non-practicing pros like Brad, have continued to dig and dig and dig and have uncovered copious evidence, all of it supporting the valid conclusion of a hoax. But the so-called "professional" journalists, including ADN, Andrew Sullivan, and Joe McGinniss, whether they are skeptical or not, have made no effort to uncover the truth of the matter. ADN sought to "debunk the persistant rumors". Didn't they contact Mat-su? What response did they get?

MSM has resources and a megaphone, that's all. Sure, it would be nice if the whole world knew what we know. That doesn't diminish our journalistic effort nor the validity of our conclusions on the evidence. They are the ones employing willful blindness, not us. In this we can agree with Sarah Palin. They are lame-stream.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 12:28

Okay, comeonpeople. I just submitted my complaint. Here's what I wrote:

"On April 18, 2008, according to former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson admitted her to Mat-Su Regional Medical Center for delivery of a child. According to Palin, the pregnancy carried six high risk factors: multi-para, advanced maternal age (44), premature labor, rupture of membranes, fetus with Down Syndrome and a history of miscarriage.

It is my understanding that Mat-Su is not accredited for high-risk births, even of twins. Delivering this baby there created significant risk to the infant and the mother.

If Dr. Baldwin-Johnson admitted this patient with those risk factors, I believe she acted improperly. Dr. Baldwin-Johnson had privileges at Providence Regional Medical Center, which has an NICU. Why would she not direct this high-risk patient there?

I request the Commission commence an inquiry into whether a doctor on staff placed two patients at grave risk and Mat-Su in legal jeopardy in this case.

Thank you for your time."

09/26/2011 12:29

@Dangerous

"No matter, he attributed a single response from an unnamed source to promote the narrative he wanted to pursue."

Worked for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld when they wanted to invade Iraq.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 12:29

Oh, V-A and all - here's the link:

http://www.jointcommission.org/report_a_complaint.aspx

Rationalist
09/26/2011 12:37

@Dangerous - how can you say that Joe McGinnis and Andrew Sullivan have made no effort to uncover the truth of the matter? Nearly every other Palin author has ignored the story entirely, including Nick Broomfield. Joe put the whole thing out there for the public to hear, and Sullivan has been pushing for a proper vetting of candidate Palin for three years.

If what you mean is nobody has gone pounding on doors, Michael Moore style, I think you have a point. I would love to see the article Pat Dougherty tried to write - "The Rumor That Wouldn't Die" - finally see the light of day at the hands of Matt Taibbi or Mother Jones Magazine or somewhere. I've emailed Rolling Stone, Mother Jones, Rachel Maddow, The Colbert Report, The Daily Show, Keith Olbermann and everyone else - and I'm confident many here have as well - but they simply will not touch it.

The only thing that will push the MSM over the edge is hard proof.

curiouser
09/26/2011 12:43

Thank you, Brad, for staying on the trail.

If I understand the letter correctly, questions 1-3 cover possible insurance fraud (if physician/hospital bills were generated from Palin's stay at Mat-Su) and/or paperwork that would result in a fraudulent birth certificate. Question 4 covers providing a room for Palin to carry out a non-fraudulent deception.

Is there any other actionable fraud besides false insurance claims, a fake birth certificate, and possible PFD violation that could result from Sarah's hoax?

Karen
09/26/2011 12:50

@mitch,
Anon238 is the same person as MeAgain, a name someone gave after she returned saying, "It's Me Again" that she stuck with.

She first commented about a month ago before leaving for a 3 week out-of-state vacation and continued to contribute bits and pieces while she was out of town. She said she would cull through e-mails and talk with the insider when she got back and then send that stuff on to Gryphen at IM to cultivate and craft, since he would be able to provide background and context based on his work these long three years. She said she was going to send info to Gryphen yesterday and apparently got a little gun-shy after the Breitbart e-mail leak, which she thought may have been hacked (hence Gryphen's email may have been compromised.) Gryphen responded that someone leaked the e-mail, not him, and that it also was sent to a separate e-mail account from he yahoo address he provided her. They are now in communication and I expect the three days is when the information is disseminated via IM. Here is the thread: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=4190158141129121771&blogID=9361564&isPopup=false&page=3

09/26/2011 12:50

Here's another baby hoax

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-15032856

So yes, folks, this is strange but it DOES HAPPEN!

comeonpeople
09/26/2011 12:54

@Rationalist: Thank you!

@everyone:
Here is JCAHO's response to my complaint. Note bullet number one. Perhaps they have not received enough complaints yet. I'm pretty sure some others have complained, I think Patrick at Pogates did. But if they receive alot from the general public and Alaskans, perhaps we'll get sonmewhere. We KNOW we won't get anywhere by NOT trying.


Regarding: Mat-Su Regional Medical Center
Incident #81451CAX-11574QSC
Dear Mrs. XXXX:
This is to inform you that we have completed our review of your letter regarding the above organization.
Based on The Joint Commission policy, we are unable to evaluate issues greater than three years old. Please be assured that although no action could be taken at this time, this does not mean that we do not view your issues as important.
Per our Public Information Policy, the following information is provided upon request as it becomes available:
• The number of standards-related written complaints filed against an accredited organization that have met criteria for review
• The applicable standards areas involved in a specific complaint review
• The standards areas in which requirements for improvement were issued as a result of complaint evaluation activities
• When an unannounced or unscheduled survey is based on information derived from a complaint or public sources, the standards areas related to the complaint
• Any determination that the complaint is not related to The Joint Commission standards
In addition, you may also wish to refer to the organization's Quality Report, which is available at The Joint Commission's web site (www.jointcommission.org, and click Quality Check), to obtain general information about the organization's performance on key quality measures. To obtain a hard copy of the report, please contact our Customer Service Center at (630) 792-5800 or write to the Customer Service Center at
Customer Service Center
The Joint Commission
One Renaissance Blvd.
Oakbrook Terrace, IL 60181
The Joint Commission stands ready to receive and review issues of concern about accredited organizations at any time and will act in accordance with all the information that is provided to us.
Sincerely,
Office of Quality Monitoring

bees-wax
09/26/2011 12:57

The quote I love from Sullivan's video: "The truth is sometimes trashy, especially when it comes to people like Sarah Palin."

Truth can be stranger (and trashier or just plain unflippinbelievable, also, too) than fiction.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 13:01

Thanks, comeonpeople.

So...I wonder how many complaints it would take to make them investigate?

I'm going to ask my friends to send in complaints. If they receive a lot of legitimate complaints - professionally worded - maybe they might make an exception?

(Why didn't we think of this a few months ago? Argh.)

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 13:02

@ Rationalist. DONE!

One complaint submitted. Thanks for your statement. I altered it slightly and filled out the form. Very easy. And confidential.

Totally O/T but a bit funny. I once wrote a play about a fake doctor who practiced in Richmond VA -- and was brilliant. He served where no one else would, and said things no one else did. He was brought down by one complain. This felt a bit like deja vu.

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 13:07

Someone mentioned over at Politicalgates that CBJ lost her privileges at Matsu. Is this a fact, and if so, when? It wouldn't surprise me if Ms. Palin's records for those 2 days (?) in hospital were "lost".

Thanks for pursuing the hospital angle, Brad.

It wouldn't surprise me if Ms. Palin's records for those 2 days (?) in hospital were "lost".

09/26/2011 13:07

Maybe the problem in trying to get to the media is that we've been trying too hard to get the US media to listen. What about other countries?

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 13:09

@yes, Victoria! I thought of the BBC last night (my news source of late since I'm mad at NPR). Every time I'm in the UK they are airing a doc on US politics, and they are often about things I've never heard of.

bees-wax
09/26/2011 13:10

What bullet #1 says to me is that they will disclose how complaints have met their criteria for review, not that a plethora of complaints (however credible) will spur on an investigation, especially since all new complaints about Trig's alleged birth are outside of their three-year limit.

Not that I don't think we should write. That would definitely get us nowhere.

Perhaps what we should be asking is just how many complaints they have received about Mat-Su, and when, and what they were about.

bees-wax
09/26/2011 13:11

*how many complaints, that is

09/26/2011 13:11

Thanks for that curious story link, Victoria. My, how strange. Or not!

Thank you again, Brad, for this informative post.

And to Rubbernecking and Karen: Damn right I'd like to sell my novel. And if it weren't good, I wouldn't even say that. But it's a bucket of fun.

Like I said: If Sarah could encourage people in her ginormous social network to buy it (only $4.99 after all and so affordable) then we could stop discussing my novel. So, thank you both again for that positive and encouraging word!

Dangerous
09/26/2011 13:24

@ Rationalist,

To date, all of the new information pertaining to this issue have been dug up by bloggers: photos of Palin in March 2008, Gryphen with the Ruffles pictures, etc. Andrew S. has repeated said he's not in the investigation business. He just "raises questions".

I haven't read Joe M's book, but if he had any revelations or now evidence I'm sure I would have read about it.

My point is that we can't count on anyone in MSM or even major publishing to advance the story and force open the medical records that will clarify this thing once and for all. We're going to have to do that ourselves if we can ever get together enough to do so.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 13:39

Dangerous:

Okay, I agree. And I would add things like the tail number on the flights - discovered by a dogged Palingates reader - that proved that Palin was flying in a private jet on her bus tour.

But I do think that Sullivan in particular is doing so much to persistently draw attention to the media's failure. When and if this does finally break - through evidence gathered through old fashioned investigating - Sullivan will be perceived as a hero for never dropping it, as he should be.

09/26/2011 13:44

From the Seattle-P-I and their review of "The Rogue". Interesting. Looks like some U.S. media outlets have dropped the playbook and decided there's something there after all, contrary to the word of our 'final arbiter/VSP" press, most of whom seem not to have read the book. This reviewer doesn't get sidetracked. I especially appreciate the last sentence.

" Those who support her now will continue to build a Palin apologetic that will serve their own self-deception further. Some of the supporters will quietly move to the other side because rationality will require it. Some will remain in her camp but would be relieved if she would simply "go away" from the spotlight. Others will stand firm in their support because of their admiration of her style, rather than her substance. Still others will stand firm in their support of her because she represents a blended ideology of religion and political power that does not normally reach this level of notoriety before it dies under the weight of human ethics and the undeniability of American pluralism."

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/blogcritics/article/Book-Review-The-Rogue-Searching-for-the-Real-2188176.php#ixzz1Z5ltTYsZ

caligirl
09/26/2011 13:56

Brad, great job! I would suggest writing a letter to the insurance company that handles the malpractice insurance for the hospital. They most likely are not locals and are going to see this more as trying to protect a possible LARGE lawsuit that could arise about Mat-Su Hopsital.

comeonpeople
09/26/2011 13:58

@Rationalists!!! I did think of this and posted on all the blogs (quite a few times actually( and asked people to complain. I don't truly know how many did. I guess it took Laur's blog to get people tot hink more about this angle. I am currently putting togethr a very detailed letter to mail tomorrow, way more detailed than my last email, to the AAFPP and ask them some very pointed questions about CBJ, what she is on record as saying and doing and ask for their response as an organization which lauded her as Family Practice Physician of the Year. My email to them was not replied to, but it also wasn't as pointed as this letter will be. As a healthcare professional and a citizen, we have a right to ask questions about what is on record as stated and done by CBJ...especially since she is being held up as some ideal physician by the AAFPP. Any moron knows it is quite unreasonable to fly with ruptured membranes. Feel free to also write to them as well, any of you, all of you, who come acorss this comment lol!!

SLQ
09/26/2011 14:02

Rationalist, you said, "Why would she not direct this high-risk patient there?"

That is a really good question that I don't hink I've seen asked. Per CBJ and Sarah, they were in contact all the way. WHY wouldn't CBJ have directed her to, at least, Anchorage?

Lidia17
09/26/2011 14:07

Brad, thanks for keeping up the pressure. There was always something fishy about that Weigel having pulled that out of his hat: "oh sure… this is Sarah's family hospital, we ALL know what's what here!"

Just seemed too good to be true—and about as credible as Lori Tipton…

SLQ
09/26/2011 14:11

bees-wax, that's my read of the letter, too, that any complaint after 3 years won't be considered. I also wonder where the three years comes in. Is there a statutory limit (not likely -- it sounds like policy)? Or is this their convenient way of dismissing the issue?

I agree with continuing to try, too.

Lidia17
09/26/2011 14:12

@Ottoline, yes transcripts should be made, if they are serious. I have a good friend who is deaf, and videos generally do her no good (that's why my own presentations were textual even though that is slower). Ideally one would have both, I guess.

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 14:12

"I have the baby in Anchorage" at 2:31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvFzOr9Q8Cw

Brad Scharlott
09/26/2011 14:23

I don't think that I was "confrontational" - I had questions to ask and asked them in a straightforward way.

I now wish I had sent two different letters, with the two lists of questions separate. The first list, no way the PR guy was going to touch that. But he might have responded to a separate letter re Weigel. I am surprised no one tried that angle after the Weigel article.

Maybe I should write directly to Valley Hospital Association, which sort of runs Mat-Su. Is that purely private, does anyone know?

Lynn
09/26/2011 14:27

i would be curious to know how Mat Su handles their medical transcription needs. Most have an in house staff, but sometimes surgeons or other practices have their own services which provide the medical record.

Trig was born somewhere, on some date, to some person, and unless he was not born in a hospital, there is likely a transcriptionist somewhere who knows the facts. It does not mean much, as they are bound to the laws, but it kind of drives me nuts that there is probably more than one person who knows the truth who is not named Palin.

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 14:29

Why did Cathy Baldwin-Johnson really change from "active status" to "consulting status" on June 1, 2008? I find this rather interesting, considering the time frame.

http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43179602.pdf

Sharon_Too_Also
09/26/2011 14:30

Joe McG has posted Andrew Sullivans' review of the book that was published in the London Sunday Times (subscription site).

http://www.joemcginniss.net/rogue-blog

Went over to the Times to check it out and saw that the title there was:

Wounded, cornered, Palin is deadlier than ever

Nice that Europe is so well informed - as we sit and wait for one major newspaper to focus on this.

09/26/2011 14:30

Viola and Ottoline--

I found the DFW commencement speech. Surprised it hasn't been deleted because copyright. Here:

http://moreintelligentlife.com/story/david-foster-wallace-in-his-own-words

Rationalist
09/26/2011 14:30

Hey, so, regarding fraud: my husband says that in order to sue for fraud you have to show damages. You have to be the victim. The exception is consumer fraud, where you can sue on behalf of victims.

So...who would be the victim of fraudulent activity regarding the "birth" of Trig Palin at Mat-Su? Would it be the People of Alaska? Would it be the insurance company that paid any claim?

I assume there was no claim made, so probably no fraud occurred. Honestly, we don't know if there was ever a room used for the hoax - all we have is a picture of Chuck and Sallie Heath holding a baby in the hallway.

This is why I think Prof Brad's second line of questioning is the more likely to succeed in putting Mat-Su in the hot seat.

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 14:32

Brad:

VHA is a nonprofit corporation organized under Alaska
law. It owns and operates a thirty-six-bed hospital in Palmer.
The hospital is licensed by the State of Alaska (State); it is the
only hospital in the Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) Valley.

http://touchngo.com/sp/html/sp-4906.htm

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 14:41

The above case I cited is one in which the VHA attempted to prevent abortions being performed at the Matsu hospital.

The board was composed of mostly lay religious persons who were allowed to change policies at their whim regarding abortion, and contrary to law.

I expect Sarah Palin has many friends on that board; she was a member herself during the takeover when she was mayor of Wasilla.

http://www.palindeception.com/blog/2008/10/startling-revelation-from-wasilla.html

FEDUP!!!
09/26/2011 14:51

Brad: If you don't get any answres from the hospital, could you possibly go to JCAHO and see if they could potentially investigate this probable fraud?

MicMac
09/26/2011 14:51

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. I wrote for months suggesting that someone put MatSu's feet to the fire.

I only diverge in the point of approach. My suggestion is that someone make a direct request of MatSu that does NOT hone in on the Sarah Palin situation per se (because of HIPPA) but cast it in a more general tone to the tune of - we found it "unusual" that MatSu allowed the birth of a high risk known DS baby in April 2008, given the facilities and staff. Does this mean that MatSu now considers itself staffed and competent to admit known high risk pregnancies for birth? Or does MatSu recommend that such expectant mothers plan to give birth at at nearby hospital with a NICU and pediatric specialists trained to assist in the delivery of high risk babies? This is a matter of general public health and safety, as allowing one person to give birth to a high risk infant without immediately Medivaccing her to Anchorage would give the impression that any other Alaskan mother in the same situation should feel confident in PLANNING to give birth at MatSu.

Or something along those lines. This could be a letter, or this could be an article. MatSu must be challenged on this point, as allowing the public to think that it was OK for Palin to "choose" MatSu after driving and flying by so many other major hospitals, COULD BE MISLEADING TO THE PUBLIC.

COULD PUT SOME FUTURE HIGH RISK INFANT AT RISK.

No HIPPA violations would occur were they to respond to this challenge, or were this question to be raised.

09/26/2011 14:53

http://www.matsuregional.com/Physicians/Pages/Find%20A%20Physician.aspx

older-wiser--I'm a little confused. When I went up to Wasilla for a meeting I passed Matsu General on the Parks Hwy. on the way into Wasilla, but I though I was in Wasilla. Yet the hospital has a Palmer address. When I went by the building looked like it would accommodate more than 30+ beds. I'll have to ask around.

Maybe I should call on Sterling Grover, pull a Jim Rockford. Have somebody distract him while I go through the files. Crack the case just like that.

SLQ
09/26/2011 14:53

Rationalist: "Honestly, we don't know if there was ever a room used for the hoax - all we have is a picture of Chuck and Sallie Heath holding a baby in the hallway."

Actually, yes we do. There was discussion a while back (Palingates, maybe?), where they had photos of other parents in rooms at MSRMC, and the curtains and windowseat/sofa were identical in the Heath photo. There was also a tray table (like the kind you eat on if you're a patient, and put your water pitcher on) parked next to what appears to be the patient closet/sink.

VeryPolitik
09/26/2011 14:54

Looks like Weigel was relying on anonymous sources. Based on recent criticism of McGinniss' book, what should we conclude?

SLQ
09/26/2011 14:56

VeryPolitik: "Looks like Weigel was relying on anonymous sources. Based on recent criticism of McGinniss' book, what should we conclude?"

Hmmm. He's a pedophile? Off with his head!

09/26/2011 14:59

All too often, at least down here in the lower forty eight, private citizens are forced to file civil suits in order to obtain access to withheld public records through the process of court discovery. Presuming the governor's insurance was paid by the taxpayer then at the very least medical bills paid on her behalf by her insurance might be accessible to the public. As a late comer to this discussion I apologize if I am revisiting old trodden ground.

Brad Scharlott
09/26/2011 15:04

Weigel invited questions about journalistic competence and/or ethics by running that badly sourced little story. What would induce him to put such shoddy work on public display?

Ottoline
09/26/2011 15:04

"MatSu silence: what does it mean?" is your title. It seems clear to me it means that silence has worked fine up to now, and no one has found a reason to change that, neither internal to the hospital, nor by outsiders like us.

Let's say the MatSu leaders know it was a hoax (and how could they possibly not know?): They decided to take CBJ out of the picture by discontinuing her privileges (it might have been a mutual decision, even, among all those fundies); they put a gag order on everyone; they cite the kidnap-fear logic for limiting baby announcements; they've succeeded in no leaks except that tiny peep; they surely would fire and blackball anyone who leaked. And it's business as usual. No problem. It's only if anyone starts to talk that there will be a problem. Ditto for CBJ. I don't see how we will ever break that giant wall of HIPAA-rationalized silence. We also know that Palin lies under oath, and her hospital-leader pals prob would too. I'm pessimistic about this direction leading to info.

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 15:05

Another simple email. The BBC World Service on PBS. I listen to their news almost every night.

Ask them to interview Joe McGinniss.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/institutional/2009/03/000000_contact_us.shtml

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 15:05

Tom, this should explain the hospital's history: http://www.matsuregional.com/About/Pages/MSRMC%20History.aspx

This new (2006) facility is at the junction of Glenn and Parks Hwys: http://www.matsuregional.com/About/Pages/About%20Us.aspx

curiouser
09/26/2011 15:07

Tom aka Jim Rockford - Yes, start digging!

The hospital website says it has 74 licensed beds.

http://www.matsuregional.com/About/Pages/About%20Us.aspx

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 15:07

sorry, Brad, that was off-thread. I wasn't thinking. Hell, write the BBC about Mat-Su hospital.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 15:09

I'm also guessing that there was enough of an adoption process to cover the legal bases at the time. When/if irregularities developed, the arson took care of it and the records were reconstructed to suit the desired story line. With the collusion at the top level of those fundie elders.

SLQ
09/26/2011 15:11

Q: What would induce him to put such shoddy work on public display?"

A. Cold hard cash

B. A secret he doesn't want revealed

C. ???

Didn't Weigel publish a fair review of The Rogue recently? Perhaps he is living to regret his decision? Might be worth following up.


Here's the link to Weigel's story. I remember being surprised at its candidness
http://www.slate.com/id/2303928/

curiouser
09/26/2011 15:12

SLQ and Very Politik - How funny that you both had the same thoughts about anonymous sources.

Neither of you alluded to this but, since some Palin critics have been critical of Weigel in the past, I want to point out that he gave an objective review of McGinniss' book and with no complaints about anonymous sources.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 15:13

SLQ - you're right. I remember now.

Alright, let me amend. We have a photograph in a hospital room of Chuck and Sallie and a baby.

We have the eyewitness testimony of a couple who delivered there the same day that Todd Palin was in the hall.

Until Weigel's phone call, we did not have evidence Palin was admitted.

Wait! When did Weigel publish that little piece? I believe we may be within the statute of limitations for a complaint about a staff member violating HIPAA.

I'm going to submit another complaint, this time about the staff member.

For those who want to follow suit, again, here's the link:

http://www.jointcommission.org/report_a_complaint.aspx

SLQ
09/26/2011 15:13

Curiouser -- and too funny that you had the same thought I did about Weigel's recent review. ;)

Ottoline
09/26/2011 15:15

Now if anon238 could produce any info on that collusion, or either fire, or Dar's role, or the birth parents (of Trig, of Ruffles, even the bioDad of Tripp), or the weird Tripp/Shailey Tripp names (this must surely be a topic of speculation among Wasilla neighbors), or use of sports center materials for the Palin house, or how the Palins got the variance to sell their previous house (non-conforming stairs to lake/dock), or any of the other et ceteras -- then I would be thrilled with anon238.

09/26/2011 15:17

The 74 bed hospital right on Parks Hwy. is where SP would've gone. Parks is the main drag through Wasilla.

mary b
09/26/2011 15:18

I forgot who asked but, I read Joe's book yesterday. He did a pretty good job with the Babygate issue.
What he did was, he used most of Andrew Sullivan's posts on it and added a little commentary.
But I was glad to see he went there. I've so far, read Geoffrey Dunn's, Bailey's, 'Going Rogue' and Joe's books. Joe comes closest than any other author's as far as Babygate goes.
I enjoyed every book, except with Bailey, I really felt as though he knows a whole LOT more than he wrote.

curiouser
09/26/2011 15:19

I wonder if either the former CEO of the hospital, Norman Stephens, or the former Director of PR, Kerry Aquirre, would talk off the record.

Stephens became the CEO of Portneuf Medical Center , in Pocatello, Idaho, in June 2009.
http://www.portmed.org/leadership/

Kelly Aquirre became the Director of Community Relations at Northeastern Nevada Regl Hosp in Elko, NV. She worked for them before going to AK and took the new position this year.
http://www.nenevadaregional.com/hospital/kerry-aguirre.htm

Older_Wiser
09/26/2011 15:21

Not that it means much, but in checking the number of babies born at Matsu from Jan to Sept of 2011, I found a new baby center in place of the old one. You now have to have a password to view the babies, although they do show birth dates, mother and hospital (it's thru a third party company). I suppose this is the company that takes baby photos.

In 2011, I could only find 10 births at this hospital that showed on this website. http://www.matsuregional.com/Services/Pages/Web%20Nursery.aspx

Of course, there could be a lot more than 10 and not all patients use the company. I suppose it would depend on hospital policy about cameras, cell phones, etc. used in the hospital birthing center.

SLQ
09/26/2011 15:21

Rationalist, good outline. However, I don't believe Weigel's phone call establishes that Palin was admitted. All it establishes is that a receptionist has heard the "fake birth at Mat-Su Regional" story. There were press there on 4/18. It was meant to look like she gave birth, and this person confirmed only that "everybody knows" this.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 15:28

SLQ and all - I just went and re-read Weigel's article, and he does claim the staff member answered "yes" to the question of whether Trig Palin was born there.

Here's my newest complaint to the Joint Commission:

I would like to file a complaint that a staff member at Mat-Su Regional Medical Center violated HIPAA guidelines by revealing confidential patient information. Journalist Dave Weigel called Mat-Su to confirm that Trig Palin, son of Sarah Palin, was indeed born there on April 18, 2008. According to Weigel, the staff member confirmed it.

Here is the article in which he quotes the Mat-Su staff member: http://fray.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/tags/andrew+sullivan/default.aspx

Specifically, he states:

"I called up Mat-Su Regional Hospital, where, according to contemporary media reports, Trig Palin was born. I was patched through to the family birthing center. The director had left for the day, sadly, so I spoke to a unit clerk who answered my questions but politely asked for me not to use her name...The clerk, realizing that Washington, D.C. reporters don't typically cold call her hospital, asked me if this call was about 'our former governor.' It was. Was Trig Palin born there?

'Oh, that's not even a question,' she said. (If my reception was better I could have heard her eyes rolling at this point.) 'Yes. Everybody here remembers that. Yes, this is where the Palins come -- this is their family hospital.'"

If Trig Palin was born at Mat-Su, this staff member acted improperly in revealing this fact. If he was not born there, I do not believe any HIPAA violation has occurred.

Thank you for inquiring into this matter.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 15:29

There's nothing to gain with accusing Weigel of taking money for a story. No one at Slate gives any credence to the birth hoax story. And Weigel's approach was similar to the "Definitive Debunker" that ran on Salon a while back. If you cherry-pick the evidence, you can make the story go away.

SLQ
09/26/2011 15:31

Rationalist, good point. Since she did say yes, she violated HIPAA, and I would think the burden is on them to prove there was no birth, and therfore, no HIPAA violation.

SLQ
09/26/2011 15:33

I can't speak for Brad, but my point was simply trying to understand, not to accuse. I doubt anyone was intending to accuse Weigel without proof. As we know, neither of those stories actually proved anything at all.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 15:36

I was just thinking again about why the big on-going silence from AKM, Shannyn, and Rachael Maddow.

I can't imagine that they don't know. They have sources and connections, incl each other. It never occurred to me until now: perhaps they do know, know the story in its entirety, and THAT's the reason they won't say word 1. Because it's as dark, explosive, sad, interconnected, etc., as various people have implied. And their overall and final judgment is that it should remain buried. Catch SP on something else, something that won't touch this sad, bad issue.

That might explain AKM not revealing her own book to McG: she felt it was important to keep an eye on McG at all costs.

Okay, grasping at straws.

search4more
09/26/2011 15:38

Brad,

I don't think the letter was written in a way that would get a response. You had already written the article and you sent it to them. If for example you were in the process of writing the article and you were seeking clarification over a point then it's more likely they would respond. It would be in their interest to do so at that point because they would then be able to affect the content of the article. If they feared the article would hurt them in some way then it would be valuable for them if they could alter it's conclusions.

At this point your somewhat famous and anyone reading your letter will probably Google you. From doing that they will easily be able to work out where your coming from. The person reading the letter I believe will conclude that your opinion about what happened is already set. If that's the case what do they gain from interacting with you?

Sorry if this all seems critical. I like that your actually doing proactive research and contacting people. It's cool.

I think we all need to consider what would have to happen for them to actually respond to you. We need to develop a better strategy. The post and discussion about whether the Palin's could have insured Trig was excellent I thought. I think that the hospital would be more likely to respond if they thought they were averting some kind of negative consequence. The negative consequence of having some kind of legal action taken against them I think would be a powerful motivator.

If you manage to get a lot of people to pledge money to pay a witness that comes forward to prove the Palin's claims about Trig, then maybe you could consider getting people to give money towards some kind of legal action or threat of legal action against the hospital. I'm not certain what it would be at the moment though.

I hope you don't find this comment too critical. sorry I can't help it. I'm a difficult person.

I haven't read the other comments yet. I'll read them now.

09/26/2011 15:39

I'm sure someone has mentioned this already, but I'll post it in case someone else (like meself) doesn't have time to read all the comments:

The Board of Directors of Mat-Su Regional Hospital is completely full of Fundie/Dominionist nutcases who support WGE in everything she does.

You will never hear anything from them.

FrostyAK
09/26/2011 15:43

Haven't read all the comments, so this might duplicate.

Someone said MSRHC is owned by a national chain (very possible, you should have seen the old hole in the wall 'hospital' we had before). Send this article as well as the original letter to them. Send to VHS. Make sure they know who else you have sent it to.

Do the same with all the newspapers in AK. ADN, Frontiersan, Fairbanks Newsminer, Juneau Empire(best get it in there, seat of government and all), and AK Dispatch.

Let the hospital scramble to cover their asses and hers. There has to be a chink in the armor. We just need to find it and pry it open.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 15:43

So I'm thinking who else probably knows the whole story, and of course CBJ must. Even if she is an unwilling and peripheral participant, just the fact of her name being so fully tied in to this would prompt her to figure it out fully, and she is in a position to do so. So we have 4 well-placed, smart, well-connected women who refuse to talk even so much as to say why they won't talk: CBJ, AKM, Shannyn, Rachel.

Does this strike anyone else as odd?

Lidia17
09/26/2011 15:44

"We have the eyewitness testimony of a couple who delivered there the same day that Todd Palin was in the hall."

@Rationalist, that was either a GROSS error or a DELIBERATE PLANT OF FALSE INFORMATION, most likely the latter.

It was the Washington Post, I believe, which cited a "Haylee Davison" talking about seeing Palin in the hallway.

------------------------
"She loves Alaska," said Haylee Davison, who delivered a daughter the same day and watched her governor pace the hospital hallways to encourage labor. "She wanted her son to be born here, not Texas."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/06/AR2008090603024.html
=============================

Problem is, "Haylee Davison" was an infant born that day, and so hardly an attendible eyewitness.


Brett Michael Dykes ("Cajun Boy in the City") in a very roundabout and anonymous way that is too long to go into here, supposedly called Haylee's parents and reported that they had NOT seen Palin and had never told the WaPo anything of the kind.

Seeing that he had found a gig writing for Yahoo!, I wrote to Mr. Dykes twice but received no response when trying to confirm his story about Haylee's parents.


Haylee's birth was recorded in the Frontiersman along with Trig's. Perhaps some enterprising Alaskan like FrostyAK or Tom could contact those folks and get them on record for real???

--------------
HAYLEE MAY DAVISON, born to Jennifer Lynn Krueger and Daylen Dean Davison of Wasilla on April 18. She weighed 7 pounds, 6 ounces.

http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/05/06/local_news/new_faces/doc481ffb5722548564626298.txt
===============


Here's CajunBoy's post:
===========================================
Radar Magazine got in touch with Krueger and Davison to discuss the matter of their miracle talking infant, and come to find out it was they who spoke to a reporter from the Washington Post...
"We never saw Sarah before the delivery," said Davison. "I did see her a couple of days after and she didn't look like someone who'd just had a baby."

Haylee's mother believes that the Post's error is all just a simple case of mistaken identity.

"I was the one pacing around trying to induce labor," said Krueger. "We saw Todd in the hall, not Sarah."

Oh well, so much for that. And as of this writing, the Post has yet to correct their errors on the paper's website.

http://cajunboyinthecity.blogspot.com/2008/09/daily-sarah-palin-roundup.html
------------------------------------------------


What's complicated is that "CajunBoy" seems to have—himself—been the one to have called the couple (if he did in fact do so) AND have placed the news item at Radar Magazine. The Radar Magazine post has been taken down, and a cached version showed that the post had no author, it was anonymous.

Still, ""She loves Alaska" … "She wanted her son to be born here, not Texas." Who talks like that? I don't know what the deal is with "CajunBoy" but the WaPo is NOT CREDIBLE, IMO.

09/26/2011 15:48

Tom- when you do the Rockford thing, don't forget to get some business cards printed with a name like Jimmie Joe Meeker. :-)

Lidia17
09/26/2011 15:51

Ok, here's the deal I found w/r/t the Radar piece, as I wrote to Patrick long ago:

---------------------------------------
The trouble is, the Radar piece has something broken about it: there's an intro, but the passages cited by the CajunBoyInTheCity blog don't appear.


1.) Does anyone have a saved copy of the Radar Online article, that you know of?
(The current cached version is no different.)

2.) Do you know anything about the author of the Radar piece, supposedly a guy called Brett Michael Dykes?
The Radar Online residual byline says "admin", but I found his name here:
http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/09/radar-online-reports-no-eyewitness-to-palin-birth.html
---------------------------


The New York Times regurgitated the WaPo's claims, without naming the parents:
The parents are referenced but not named in this NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/us/politics/08baby.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all


I hope these links still work; I have not checked them since back then (September of 2010).

Ottoline
09/26/2011 15:59

So all along, I have been thinking that McCain or Murdoch-owned people or Alaska officials were not going to talk because it implicated them in the dirty doings -- because they enabled them, because they profited from them, because they had parallel and related cons going that would also be exposed. CYA.

But as I think about the four women who undoubtedly know, I see a different reason for keeping the story quiet. Isn't it true that only CBJ is a fundie? So the other 3 of these women are not, and they seem to have good ethics. Maybe excellent ethics. So why would they keep quiet about a woman they heartily disapprove of?

And my thinking comes back to the dark, sad issue. For whatever reason, these 4 women have concluded that having the story revealed is not worth it, overall. The collateral damage would be too huge.

I just hadn't thought about it this way before. Does this make sense to anyone else? Or how else to explain this silence from people who must surely know. ??

search4more
09/26/2011 16:00

I just had a thought. If on the day of the birth there hadn't been a room available they would have been screwed. The plan wouldn't really have worked. Palin had to stay in the room for a long time for the whole thing to work.

How many rooms are there at the facility for births? Although this was officially a sudden unplanned birth, the actual room would have had to have been booked in advance. Who books rooms? where is that recorded?

Ottoline
09/26/2011 16:07

I recall CajunBoy having a Sept 2008 (! yes!) piece, one of the first I read, that was very detailed and also fit everything we now know, 3 yrs later. Not sure if it's the same person, but it was someone who claimed to be a transplant to NYC.

search4more
09/26/2011 16:10

I wanted to fire another comment out at the risk of annoying more people.

Please lets not get some poor receptionist fired. Surely we want to encourage anyone that talks.

Lidia17
09/26/2011 16:20

Ok boys and girls, a year ago I had only looked at the Google cache. Using, instead, the WAYBACK MACHINE, I found the Radar article with its attribution to Brett Michael Dykes:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080912135345/http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/09/sarah-palin-trig-baby-controversy.php

I'm still mystified as to why Mr. Dykes did not respond to my mails. I shared all the info above with Patrick and, more recently, with Brad Scharlott, but I have not heard whether either of them have pursued Dykes for a confirmation of this reporting as I did.

I wanted to put this info into my video presentations, but was loath to do so without a confirmation, since Brett's original story had effectively disappeared.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 16:30

@Ottoline, didn't AKM sign a disclosure about her book? I think leaking AKM's book was very ugly. I wish McGinnis had found another solution--maybe a deal where he got a pass at the emails after the Bailey book went to press or maybe an exclusive interview with Bailey to follow-up on questions raised by the book. I find it hard to believe a talented, connected writer like McGinnis didn't have other options.

As best I can tell, AKM had a policy of not discussing Palin's children. I believe AKM was quoted somewhere (maybe Vanity Fair?) as saying people should ask about Palin's official birth story, rather than question Trig's maternity. And frankly, I agree. The MSM should have used the Wild Ride to question Palin's decision-making skills in Sep 2008. She was running as VP for an old, cancer-stricken man. Citizens had the right to know how she made decisions under pressure. Her official press releases to the State of Alaska and the RGA were sufficient grounds to ask questions.

Palin made a very cruel decision to put Bristol in the spotlight as an unwed teen mother. If AKM's decisons were based on keeping the focus on Palin, rather than Bristol, I see no fault in this.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 16:35

"I was the one pacing around trying to induce labor," said Krueger. "We saw Todd in the hall, not Sarah."

This is what I was referring to. So you're saying this quote is questionable? That's fine, I don't think Todd was ever pacing any halls, and I don't think Sarah was ever at Mat-Su. I think Todd came out with a baby, told Chuck and Sallie Sarah was sleeping, the picture was taken, and that was that.

BTW - that photograph of Levi holding the baby may be at Mat-Su, but it's not from the same time as the Chuck and Sallie picture. Different hat, different blankie. I do not believe Levi ever saw Palin with an IV in her arm.

And, Search4More, I agree about not getting a clerk fired. But if she is giving out patient information over the phone, she's violating HIPAA, so that's really her problem.

But if there was no child born to Palin on 4/18, the clerk may have given erroneous information, but did not violate HIPAA. Since Palin is lying, there's really no reason for the clerk to be fired.

In any event, my theory is that if an inquiry were actually to be launched, there would be no medical records found for Palin giving birth that day. That might be enough to tip the scale.

Mary
09/26/2011 16:36

It's simpler than you think and good to look at the basics again sometimes.

Mat-Su does not deliver premature infants. As simple as that.

Preemie deliveries are sent to Providence Maternity Center in Anchorage which is the regional referral center for premature deliveries.

DS
09/26/2011 16:37

Another question to ask Mat-Su Medical Center:

What is the typical length of the hospital stay for a premature Down's baby with jaundice and a hole in his heart? Wouldn't this type of at-risk baby need special care for at least several weeks or more? Why was Trig Palin released so quickly? Wasn't Mat-Su putting this child in danger by releasing him so quickly?

09/26/2011 16:40

@Ottoline. What still strikes me as odd about CBJ is that even if she's the most devoted fundie, she's not, not stupid. She did her training at the University of WA if I'm not mistaken. Getting into medical school there has been very difficult for many years. My internist went to Harvard as an undergrad. He was turned down at UW, and trust me, the man is brilliant. [Not to mention, witty, kind, and empathetic while making you laugh] So what gives with her?

If she knew of a tubal ligation, she might have felt entrapped I imagine. Big HIPAA troubles there. And forced to remain quiet and possibly just dodging any further involvement. Phonied up letter? Her legal advice would been that unless asked specifically if she created the letter, she could say nothing? Was she asked about the letter by ADN? I seem to remember she was asked only about the birth. Anyone else?

Rationalist
09/26/2011 16:41

Heads up: IM is reporting the Palin is threatening to sue Random House over the leaked Griffin/McGinnis email.

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/

Great! I hope they do it!

Ottoline
09/26/2011 16:50

Lidia17: Yup, this was it. Sept 2008. The yellow background:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080915063250/http://cajunboyinthecity.blogspot.com/2008/09/recapping-week-in-which-relatively-sane.html

Lidia -- did you ever get my email re the Letterman/Sedaris idea?

Ottoline
09/26/2011 16:58

nancydrewed: No, not stupid. CBJ. But said to be a big-time fundie. I have never been sure the quotes attributed to her actually came from her. Many were clearly presented as hearsay by SP, so we can assume those could be lies. The ADN article made some sound like direct quotes, but I was never sure they might not have come from SP also. Not clear to me what she actually said the time she showed up with her lawyer. I suspect the MD letter is altered or forged. I suspect the use of CBJ's services in her specialty area is real, but not clear for whom.

What does that add up to? I dunno.

FEDUP!!!
09/26/2011 17:03

$arah is threatening to sue McGinniss and R.H., his publisher!

http://bigjournalism.com/pjsalvatore/2011/09/26/breaking-gov-sarah-palin-sends-letter-to-crownrandom-house-warns-not-to-destroy-documents-ahead-of-potential-defamation-suit/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BigJournalism+%28Big+Journalism%29

Rationalist
09/26/2011 17:12

Ottoline - not to eavesdrop, but I assume you mean Amy?

Remember how Stephen Colbert handled Sarah Palin's "Paul Revere" comments? He attempted to act her scenario out using by ringing bells and carrying a lantern and firing shots while riding a hobbyhorse, which demonstrated so hilariously how ridiculous the whole thing was?

You know what I would like to see? A celebrity like Amy Sedaris or Susan Sarandon or someone like that post a Funny or Die video acting out Sarah's Wild Ride.

Hmm. I'm going to work on that.

Phyllis
09/26/2011 17:12

If anyone wants to inquire about the Mat-Su Regional's liability in delivering Trig when they had plenty of time to transfer Sarah to Providence in Anchorage you need to write to Community Health Systems,Inc. the address is Community Health Systems
4000 Meridian Blvd.
Franklin, TN 37067
Telephone: (615) 465-7000
They may be real interested in knowing that Mat-Su Regional allowed the delivery of a 1 month premature Down Syndrome baby when it was not a emergency delivery.


This is some information I found on the sale of the hospital. It states quite clearly who is in charge of the day to day operations of Mat-Su Regional.

This change follows the 2003 creation of a joint venture between Valley Hospital Association (VHA) and Triad Hospitals. The joint venture began construction of a new and greatly expanded hospital, the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center. The new Mat-Su Regional Medical Center (MSRMC) is located between Palmer and Wasilla with access off the Parks Highway. The new medical campus opened in January 2006. At MSRMC patients will experience an expanded array of available health-care services, technology, and health care professionals. We think the new medical center is spectacular and will make a significant contribution to improve health in our valley. VHA is proud to be a joint owner in this new state-of-the-art medical facility! In 2007, Triad Hospitals were purchased by Community Health Systems.
While Valley Hospital Association will continue to be an owner in the new Mat-Su Regional Medical Center - the Association no longer directly controls the hospital’s day-to-day operations. However, the Association remains actively involved in guiding the Medical Center’s operations through participation on the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center’s Board of Directors.

Colacarat
09/26/2011 17:13

I think that Palinoia was right on target that the breakthrough may come through links to insurance.

When I was in graduate school, one of my professors notified Medicaid that the school's own clinic may have been "incorrectly" billed for services. Rumor has it that he received around $200,000.00 for the information (kind of like a whistleblower reward). Needless to say, he was no longer a professor after that disclosure. The school's clinic was audited, and it eventually settled the case for a fraction of the original fine (which was in the millions).

HIPAA doesn't protect insurance fraud. People who processed Trig's insurance payments (if there were any) may be in the best position to expose this fraud. Do most, if not all, insurance companies have policies similar to that of Medicaid's whistleblower policy?

comeonpeople
09/26/2011 17:15

Jimminy Crickets! Just read that the President of the AAFP went to the same med school as CBJ around the same time. He was elected in 2010. Wonder what his opinion is going to be. The president elect is from Denver and he does alot of obstetrics, this is good.

comeonpeople
09/26/2011 17:18

Yes Nancydrewed. CBJ did her residency at the UW. That is why I have such a hard time with her role in this. How can she have "it was not unreasonable for her to fly" advice associated with her?? Mindboggling.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 17:19

rubbernecking: Yes, AKM signed an anti-disclosure agreement for Bailey's book. But if it seemed unethical to talk to McG about his book when she could not mention hers, she might have declined to see him, or only in a big group. She herself apologized for it. And yes I agree that McG leaking (and intent to use! the contents of) the ms was bad. But what if McG had heard from NY pals that the ms had already been widely leaked: that would put a different spin on McG sending it to AK media. I think there's enough weirdness re this to go around, and we haven't heard the complete story yet.

Re AKM not discussing the children. During the election, yes. I agree. Obama said that was his rule. A good rule in general. But what about the 2.5 yrs since then when all privacy issues have been altered the Palin grab for fame and fortune? Why hold back now? Esp when it seems clear there has been a hoax? And the photo-proof is there.

Another possible reason to keep quiet if one really does know the whole story: perhaps it is so seamy that one doesn't want to be tarred by touching even a tiny part of it.

09/26/2011 17:21

@Rationalist - you are brilliant.

A troll posted earlier something to the effect that liberals are emotional and irrational. Not true! If we have a weakness, it's that we tend to respect the law - sometimes a vulnerability when the other side is cheating.

However, we do have a strength - HUMOR. Could we get Funny or Die interested?

Ottoline
09/26/2011 17:25

Rationalist: You sre not eavesdropping but a key member of the party! And yes, Amy Sedaris has talked v engagingly to Letterman about her imaginary boyfriend (with no enamel on his teeth) and how creepy it is when people tell you they are "trying to get pregnant. TMI! TMI! She's also hilarious when she lies, as she often does to Dave.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 17:30

@Colacarat, I don't know that we have much evidence of insurance fraud. Based on the email evidence, it appears the Palins opted for Open Enrollment, rather than New Birth event. As long as Palin was legal parent or guardian of Trig during Open Enrollment, there wasn't fraud.

I think Open Enrollment proves Palin did not give birth on 4/18/2008 but it does show an attempt to handle the insurance problem legally. By choosing Open Enrollment, I believe the Palins were liable for Trig's medical costs between 4/18/2008 and 6/1/2008.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 17:31

Seems to me the trick is to get one of the regulars on Funny or Die interested. They include Sarah Silverman, Olivia Munn, Emma Stone and more. I'm taking a look to see which of the women on F or D are moms.

Sometimes hard to reach, but I got Rosanne Cash to tweet me back about McGinnis' book. You never know.

physicsmom
09/26/2011 17:34

Brad, I think the idea of the letter is good, but the wording of the first few questions is on the order of "when did you stop beating your wife?" They try to box the hospital in a corner (which I suppose was the point) and pretty much guarantees that they won't respond. I agree with your later comment that sending two separate letters would be a better strategy.

As covered in detail by @Rationalist, @Redwood Palinizer and @Susan in MD, following the accreditation path seemed like the best route, until seeing the response from the Joint Commission that the statute of limitations has expired for investigations. I do like the idea of questioning the hospital in general about whether they are now open for high risk births, since they apparently handled Palin's satisfactorily and she wasn't steered to another facility.

Good luck with your follow-up.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 17:38

Typo: I believe Palins were liable for Trig's medical costs between 4/18/2008 and 7/1/2008. The emails discuss various doctor appointments for Trig during this time period. There's no rational or financial reason to go uninsured unless there's a legal impediment to getting insured.

comeonpeople
09/26/2011 17:40

I am very sad right now. Way back when on Audrey's blog I suggested the JCAHO route and was shot down. I sat on it for too long.

Celia Harrison
09/26/2011 17:44

I am the only nurse I know of who has written about the workplace bullying, corruption and incompetence in rural hospitals in Alaska. I observed a nurse who was being workplace bullied and had become very ill, have her chart retrieved from the medical records department so the staff could read it and pass it around. When I found it I asked what the hell was going on. They did not bother to send it back and when she came in to work she asked what her chart was doing in the unit. I know they did this with my chart. The manager (workplace bully) of the unit I worked in spread gossip about staff health problems. There are third world country type practices in these hospitals and the same kind of bullying Sarah Palin uses is used against staff. I know because I have PTSD from it , became suicidal and then got arrested for the melt down I had which was part of my suicidal ideations at the time. Then the police harassment, corrupt court system, false arrest and imprisonment, death threats and much more made me even sicker. They have power in the communities they are in and get the police, agencies and courts involved in their attacks and cover ups of their own crimes. These people have no idea what ethical, appropriate behavior is and they do not care, everything is about themselves, not excellent patient care. They kowtow to certain patients and treat others like dirt. Remember Sarah Palin was on the board of this hospital. There were people where I was who pulled all kinds of crap. The state of Alaska does not regulate them or investigate anything, they get away with embezzlement and other crimes. This could be a possible basis for Palin blackmailing higher ups at this hospital into helping her with her scam BTW. One tactic at the hospital I was at was to make sure the CEO was an incompetent so they could do whatever they wanted. If any questions were asked the CEO would in a short time be gone and a shill token native would be placed as acting CEO over and over and over. It is my understanding that one of the most severe workplace bullies from the hospital I was at is now at Mat-Su Regional Hospital, she’ll make life a living hell for many. You will never get the truth from them because they are not just protecting Palin, they are protecting themselves. Remember that unit clerk most likely was very poorly trained and was just repeat information she has been told. They don’t understand that the constant gossiping that goes on where they work is inappropriate.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 17:44

@comeonpeople, what was Audrey's concern about the JCAHO route?

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 17:46

my dear comeonpeople, who knew? didn't we all think that this would be over quickly? I certainly did. I can't bear you being sad, because every time I read your name, I smile. But my shaman would say, be sad! Feel it! Come through it!

Ottoline
09/26/2011 17:59

comeonpeople: We've all been at this so long that ideas are coming up for the 4th and 5th time, to be discussed once again with renewed interest. It's like when you toss something into the dirty laundry basket, and after an esp dirty week you realize that that first garment is now the cleanest thing you own, so you dig it out and try to make do.

That's why I feel a little jaded with asking MatSu anything: they are surely prepared for questions, and the idea that they will tell on themselves or be tricked into that by us seems like a real long-shot. But hey: could happen.

JJ
09/26/2011 17:59


Anonymous said...
Anonymous at 2:41,
Thank you so much for putting such an articulate and compassionate voice to my situation. I know people must sometimes think "just say what there is to say already!" and some of them must think I have no good reason not to do exactly that. All I could really say to that is "they just don't understand how it is here".
Yes, MOST people in the valley think the Palins are a joke, and a horribly embarrassing chapter in our state's history. But there are still multiple entities in law, society, government, and even medicine...which have Palin appointees or cronies. People don't realize how the APD treats those who antagonize the Palins. There have been a huge number of divorce and custody cases which have had ugly, ugly outcomes...because the judge is in Palin or Parnell's pocket (two pockets on the same hideous pant-suit, by the way). So yes, I have some trepidation about my identity being protected only by a yahoo mail account. It's not that I don't trust Gryphen; I trust him most out of all the bloggers out there. It's the unknowns, the what-ifs, the "am I taking a stupid, thankless risk...? which give me pause. (although not enough to change my mind about doing this)


I have said all along, my main reason for being scared isn't Sarah herself; it's the out of control vitriol employed by her army of sycophants.


Bree Palin! The lady, the legend! I only saw your blog a few times but I was awed by your candid logic and I felt sure it would be someone like YOU who would break this wide open. (a highly intelligent woman, with her own pregnancy/birth experience, whose voice was appealing and relatable)

As for me being "rill"...today I've had a fabulous chance to prove my "rill-ness"--I know for a fact Sarah is having two speeches written right now. One of them is to announce that Sarah is "proud to stand in front of the country today and officially declare my candidacy for the office of president of the united states". The OTHER one (the one my gut tells me we will hear) explains how "even though it breaks my heart to disappoint those who have stood by me during this difficult decision process, at this time in my life I cannot pursue the presidency"...

Now, the "dill" is...I got some very specific details about both speeches. But instead of posting it now, or sending it to Gryphen...and then her just changing it enough to make me look wrong, I'm going to wait until we hear from fox or CNN or whomever that "the governor" is going to make a speech shortly...and then post the details! I think it's a great idea to one, drive her mad--always a plus and two, even the most "me-nostics" will have to concede that I couldn't get SUCH specific details without a window to the inside.

Is anyone else getting a chuckle out of Sarah's lawsuit chatter against Joe and HC? At the VERY first mention of "evidentiary discovery"...Sarah's going to be all "law suit? Noooo, I said....raw fruit, see..."



-MeAgain

4:44 PM

FrostyAK
09/26/2011 18:01

I am feeling somewhat 'lamestream'. The fear of the 'palin maffia' seems to have gotten to me. I went to the sites listed to file a complaint. When I realized that it needed my full name and address, I could not fill out the form. I don't believe anything is truly confidential anymore. I find I am in no position to have to defend myself from the crazies. In my younger days I would not have hesitated...

It is obvious that the tentacles of said 'mafia' also extend to the Anchorage PD, since they issued a false statement to the NE about the palins concerning an OPEN case when the palin lawyer asked them to. They have also kept property that belongs to a citizen, disregarding a judge's order to return it.

I want to thank all of you who are out of state for doing so much to make all our lives better, when so many in AK are too chickensh!t to do our own dirty work.

Thank you!

I have emailed Jennifer Krueger's phone number to Laura, if she wants to follow up on it. Best not have a lot of people calling her.

09/26/2011 18:05

Well, Sarah is threatening to sue Random House and if she does and it goes to court would be forced to prove that McGinnis information is untrue. Let the discovery begin.

Lilybart
09/26/2011 18:12

I had no idea that the letter didn't say mat-su hospital by name.

Interesting.

09/26/2011 18:26

Need some help. Still waiting on Joe's book from the library and I just read Joe's email to Griffin.Did Joe publish any of the lurid details that he asked Jesse about. The email that Breibart published reads that Joe wouldn't use the info that Jesse or Shailey or whoever claimed.

So if Joe didn't include the 'lurid stories' what's the basis of the lawsuit? Joe's email is above board. Clear this up for me please.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 18:35

Tom: The various comments I've seen say
--The Jan date of the letter shows Joe was attempting due diligence
--All items not substantiated are labeled rumor in the book, say readers
--B's letter is a misguided/ineffective slam
--The question is how did B get the letter? But who cares, now. IMO
--Jesse seems to know how B got the letter
--Jesse's email was not hacked, says Jesse
--A big non-issue; stupid distraction; as usual. As is the lawsuit.

FrostyAK
09/26/2011 18:39

Why has $P sent a letter threatening Joe and RH with lawsuit? Another hoax, that probably cost her about $200. To get more $$$ from her paint chip eater followers before she announces that she just can't handle a lawsuit AND running for POTUS. So POTUS will have to wait...

09/26/2011 18:43

But Joe did print the rumors and called them such? If so, he shouldn't have I don't think.

There's no ccs on the email so you'd think it had to be forwarded. If Jesse knows why not say so? Exposure?

Brad Scharlott
09/26/2011 18:44

The lawsuit threat is just a PR move. As many have noted, the discovery process is the last thing in the world she would want to face.

Conscious at last!
09/26/2011 18:45

@ Ottoline

I want to try to discuss your question about the four women CBJ, AKM, SM and Maddow -- but without judgement of anyone's actions. My point is simply to offer my own view .

First, it is unlikely to me that, with the exception of CBJ, any of these women have any direct knowledge of what actually happened re: babygate.

Anon238 tells us that CBJ was sort of manipulated into the situation at the beginning and is now being pressured in some way to keep quiet. We are all aware of how she has "disappeared" professionally.

AKM and SM are Alaskans, but have no personal connection to the scene. Indeed, these two were instrumental in organizing against SP - specifically they helped spearhead a terrific demo against her before(or after?) the '08 election. The theme of the demo was Alaskan Women Reject Palin. My point is that these two were fighting the good fight up there for a while. They might have made a strategic decision not to get involved in babygate because there were so many other fish to fry locally re:SP. Also, too, it might not have been too safe to get involved with this question in Alaska. (Although I'm sure that plenty of folks up there knew SP was lying about her pregnancy early on. After all - who was "Artic XIX" who posted the first article at Daily Kos?)

As for Maddow, now she is a national media figure w/MSNBC. AKM and SM appeared a few times on MSNBC in the past, I think when RM followed KO's show. They were able to offer an Alaskan perspective on Palin by those who were not drinkin' the koolaid. Maddow may know about babygate the same way that we do-- but she ain't talkin'!

I don't know what has to happen to make it OK for the MSM to go there and I'm not holding my breath because over time the MSM will matter less and less.

Cheers!

myrna nichols
09/26/2011 18:54

There is one thing that characterizes today's medical practice: Cover Your Ass, CYA. No one wants to be the subject of a lawsuit, so the doctor orders tests, X-rays, and is quick to refer the patient to a specialist. Everyone errs on the side of caution.

Given that environment, it is beyond belief that Palin would choose to deliver a baby known to have DS at little MatSu Hospital. Her doctor, CBJ, was also able to practice in Anchorage, which did have a neonatal ward.

There are several good reasons why Sarah and her doctor should have chosen the Providence facility in Anchorage:
1. Sarah had a history of 2 miscarriages.
2. Women over 35 have a higher risk of miscarriage and/or complications during pregnancy and/or birth.
3. Trig was supposed to have been diagnosed with Down Syndrome. 45% of DS babies born with congenital heart problems.
4. Here is a paragraph from Wikipedia's entry about DS which gives an idea of the tests that should be performed on the newborn DS child. I question whether MatSu had the ability to perform these tests.
At birth, an ultrasound of the heart (echocardiogram) should be done immediately in order to identify congenital heart disease (this should be carried out by someone with experience in pediatric cardiology). A complete blood count should be done in order to identify pre-existing leukemia. A hearing test using brainstem auditory evoked responses (BAERS) testing should be performed and any hearing deficits further characterized. The thyroid function should also be tested. Early Childhood Intervention should be involved from birth to help coordinate and plan effective strategies for learning and development.
5. Sarah claims to have gone into labor 5 weeks early. She was going to deliver a premature baby, and MatSu does not have a neonatal ward. In fact, in cases of premature birth, the mother and newborn baby are rushed to Anchorage by ambulance. Sarah by-passed a good facility in Anchorage, driving an additional hour to deliver a premature baby in a hospital that lacked the facilities for that kind of birth.

09/26/2011 18:57

@FrostyAK -- Give them a P.O. Box number or incomplete street address and sign. Then go rent a copy of "High Noon" and pass it on. The only way to stop feeling intimidated is to make intimidation useless. I suspect this is where the Alaska pride in being "independent" works against your collective larger interests.

re lawsuit threats: Random House, I'm sure has this more than covered. I imagine they're thinking--'go ahead. make our day'. Send sales through the roof. Threats are not cease and desist, no? Of course not.
Banty rooster noise, once again from the Palin quarter. Cock-a-doodle-squawk.

search4more
09/26/2011 18:59

Brad,

It's a PR move that could go quite wrong and explode in her face if it causes people to pay more attention to Joe's book. It really depends how Joe and his publisher want to play it though. I could imagine a clever PR person at the publisher trying to use this for publicity, but I could equally imagine someone at the publisher getting scared and them wimping out.

search4more
09/26/2011 19:08

I read the CBJ letter again. It mentions jaundice but has no mention of a hole in the heart. A baby with a diagnosed hole in the heart has much more reason to need specialist care than one with jaundice.

Sorry this is a newbie question, but could someone point me to the report that confirms the hole in the heart?

I think it could well be more important than the one month prematurity if the baby had a good birth weight, which Trig appears to have had. That's especially the case if there is evidence it was diagnosed before the birth.

I'm far from a medical expert so I could be wrong about the birth weight thing.

Cyn
09/26/2011 19:10

A question I have.How did CBJ explain SP public statements about advice she gave to SP, to her mal-pratice insurance carrier?

Just a comment because it so stupid, nobody paces anywhere if their labor is being induced. You're hooked to up to so many IV lines and machines, it is difficult to move in the bed.. I know I get stuck on this stuff, but if she had to make up some BS story about giving birth for whatever sick reason. The story should least make sense.

I have stated this before Trig was and is SSI eligible. There are some medical issues when the State does not have the abilty to deny coverage nor is income a factor. I will type this only once SSA data base for Palin has a lock and alert. Which means anyone trying to look up Trig can't with out a password. Johnston is locked with no alert. I can not swear this means something, however I have worked in public welfare for many years and this is not the norm.

Melly
09/26/2011 19:12

I'd guess I'd rather see Sarah tied up in court proceedings than running for president. Or is she planning to carry this out while campaigning? Oh I forgot. She's unconventional.

Melly
09/26/2011 19:15

Cyn, which is not the norm? Lock and alert, or lock/no alert?

sheila lackey
09/26/2011 19:20

@search 4 more
Palin herself said that Trig was born with a hole in his heart. By the time he was one, he had surgery to repair the hole in his heart.

Rationalist
09/26/2011 19:23

Search4more -

There is no proof of the hole in the heart. It's just another one of Sarah's odd lies. It's one more detail she's told to elaborate on the already ridiculous story.

So the point is, that if things were the way Palin says they were, gross negligence occurred at Mat-Su by CBJ.

None of it is true, so of course they didn't.

09/26/2011 19:33

I think she said he did not need surgery. Either way, she left him after a surgery for 5 days. What does she know.

Cyn, can you please elaborate on what you're saying about the locks and alerts? That just flew by me there!

Prediction: she will sue for $100M and then "settle out of court" for $1M.

Tom: my feeling is that Joe had very good lawyers vetting what he might print. If the information did not pass libel concerns, then it didn't go in. I'd guess three sources on each factor. Does Palin really think they didn't vet that manuscript within an inch of their lives? So the email, since it was dated in January, showed that he was very clear about not printing what he couldn't source. He began blogging in April, right? So by then his landscape had shifted from when he first wrote to Gryphen. Perhaps Mr. Breitbart missed that part?

Does she really want that basketball player to be questioned about this? Me thinks it's her petty, high school way of finding out who talked about her to Joe.

That poor Piper. That kid must live with constant tension, turmoil and uncertainty around her. I'll bet it's been unpleasant in that house for the past 2 weeks.

Up
09/26/2011 19:33

Wonderful effort, Dr. Scharlott.

I don't expect there will ever be an answer. My understanding of HIPPA is that the provider cannot comment on care not provided to a patient unless defending against malpractice.

No matter how supportive the board is of Palin, they do need to comply with minimum standards set by regulations and the parent company. My guess is that Community Health (or a subsidiary) runs day to day operations and the Valley Hospital gets to appoint a few board members who set strategic direction and actively support fundraising.

Since they are part of a large chain, they may self-insure for malpractice on the hospital side.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 19:40

Laura -- could you weigh in with the degree to which news people gossip and trade delicious deep-background stories? I could be wrong, but even in my rather staid world when I worked, just EVERYTHING seemed to be known about everyone from one quarter or another. Never publicly, of course. But the deep background was always there if you had a drink with someone.

And my take on news people is that's just part of their personality -- to want to know, to ask qu, to be able to keep sources and certain stories quiet until it's ok to use them. But I'm not a news person, I have not even played one on TV -- I've only read about them.

It's like my Dar Miller guess: as an ex-NICU nurse, I would imagine her asking a trusted former colleague "Did SP really have the baby that night?" and her colleague telling what she knew to a trusted Dar. And revising the info when more became available. Ditto re "where did that baby come from?"

So the idea that these four women don't know just seems impossible to me. Because unlike us, they have a wealth of people to ask, and who would tell them.

09/26/2011 19:41

Laura, what annoys me is that media presents just the "unsubstantiated lurid stories" blurb as if they were published as fact. Peoople don't read. We know what Joe's email said, but ignorati don't.

Viola-Alex
09/26/2011 19:41

Ottoline / Sharon-Too-Also: Thank you so much for the tangerine recipe and for the firsthand account of meeting MFK Fisher. That exchange last night was a bit surreal, and I'm buoyed by the fact that a writer of her stature would be bandied about in such a strange venue. These are the bits of beauty that keep me going in the midst of this oft discouraging but most glorious fight against faux womanhood and political skullduggery.

Thank you.

(I shared it with my husband over dinner tonight and realized I hadn't thanked you both.)

eva marie
09/26/2011 19:42


Here is a comment from Joe about sources copied from Progressive Alaska:

On Sunday, at a book salon I hosted at firedoglake, McGinniss had this to say about the vetting of his book on Palin:

Bottom line: not only my editor, but Random House attorneys verified every source, in some cases speaking directly to the sources themselves. I have dozens of hours of recorded conversations. Random House attorneys listened to them all, then made an independent judgment about the trustworthiness of the sources. No material from an unverified source is included in the book. Many details were omitted for that reason. Obviously, any writer would like to be able to name every source. In this case, the climate of fear the Palins created in and around Wasilla made that impossible. After seeing how Sarah reacted to my moving next door, many people became afraid for their own safety and said they’d talk to me only if I guaranteed confidentiality. When I felt I had to, I did. Anonymous sources have a long and honorable tradition in U.S. journalism. Look at Woodward and Bernstein and “Deep Throat.” Just last week, the NY Times had a story about the Mets third baseman and quoted an anonymous source. In twelve books written over 42 years, I’ve never been through a legal vetting like this one. It lasted for months.

Up
09/26/2011 19:43

re the question of proving Palin did not give birth via the vital statistics: per the state website there were a handful of births in Mat-Su County which fit the story of Palin. However I haven't found records which I could connect to people to id 25 women over 40 who gave birth, of whom 0 were named Sarah Palin. The vital statistics are bulk numbers. The Frontiersman printed only a small portion of the recorded births in 2008. The APF list includes only names.

jeff
09/26/2011 19:51


Sarah just can't wait to be deposed, can she? (/sarc) Much ado about nothing.

She's trying to save face, and this will be one of the excuses not to run for POTUS that she gives her cult zombies.

The lawsuit threat would actually make things more interesting if she were planning to follow through, but Sarah's word cannot stand up to the truth. In any event, it is not defamation to report rumors as rumors.

Still, the reaction from all of her little bots is priceless! For the moment. I'll be sick of it before bedtime. Right now, I'm hoping that she sets up a legal offense fund. lol

09/26/2011 19:53

Eva Marie, thank you for that. Great quote. I have no doubt that Joe did his work. And that the email he wrote in January provided what he needed, and what he needed to take out of his manuscript, by June.

Tom, what can I say? Joe has a great comment in his book about how the LA Times, no less, even ran with the story of him peering into Piper's bedroom. No call to Joe. No reporting, simply repeating what another "news source" reported.

Ottoline: remind me of that question if I fail to reply to it. I'll mull it over.

Oh and Tom, yes, Livermore is in the valley east of here. Many ranches, though people do have horses in the Oakland Hills as well (from previous post.)

Sharon_Too_Also
09/26/2011 20:06

@Viola-Alex - You're welcome. Writing about MFKF was a walk down a lovely memory lane and a great break from you-know-who.

@jeff - I agree -she's settin' the bots up for the great big disappointment. Let the wailin' begin.

Allie RN
09/26/2011 20:15

Holy Cow! Let's keep our perspective here. Celia and Frosty and Me Again point out that Alaska is not a safe place for dissent. We cannot apply our lower 48 logic to a place that is clearly out of control. Caution is advised!

Weigel didn't ask if SP delivered Trig; he asked if Trig was born there.

Sarah Palin was not pregnant and did not deliver Trig.

On 4/18/08, Mat-Su permitted KTUU to take photos and interview people in association with Trig. Did the Palins relinquish their HIPAA right to privacy? Yes, but to what degree? Who gave permission to allow KTUU in the OB dept.?

The hospital's insurance policy covers the birth details as publicly known at least to the extent that the EMTALA law would be followed. A pregnant woman admitted to the hospital with ruptured membranes would not violate the insurance policy because no insurance policy could fail to cover that if they have even a single labor and delivery bed. I think that is a dead end.

@comeonpeople - don't give up. Did you focus only on Mat-Su? Did you inquire about the Anchorage Hospital where CBJ had privileges, Providence? There are ways to get around the statute of limitations.

@Alaska people AKA Jim Rockford: how about a field trip for us? What we need to know is when Mat-Su and Providence were certified and are due for their next Joint Commission review. Hospitals are required to post in a visible area their certificates from the JC, which is dated. Hospitals are reviewed every three years unless there are problems (then sooner.) So we need you to enter the hospital and look around for the posted JC certificate. It is small, only paper size (8 1/2 by 11); it will be framed. There will be other certs. around it, from the state granting the # of beds and other orgs. that gave them some such cert. It is usually close to the entrance, down a nearby hallway. This can be done without anyone even realizing you're doing it. An onsite visit is best rather than a website because there is so much more to see. Brochures, newsletters, upcoming classes, names of people in charge...

Indoor photos are not a good idea. Don't do anything to attract security. Be cool.

jadez
09/26/2011 20:21

palin does not have the power you think she does.
maybe when governor people should have been concerned but now the rep is more powerful then the reality.

far as the hospital....you would need a lawyer to look over every statement they have made and every statement attributed to them and every statement made regarding their having a part in this to see if legally they can be made to answer questions.

you see , if they knowingly committed fraud they obviously wont answer.
and every question they might answer would raise more questions. so they wont answer any.

look,,,obviously palin didnt birth the child known as trig and obviously she had help in covering it up.

i have always believed that is the reason no one will investigate the hoax.
the people who enabled this hoax are very powerful.

Cyn
09/26/2011 20:29

Sure,
In most case's if you have access to SSA's data base, you can look up anyone you need to. Sometimes people/names will be locked, which means with out clearance and a password for that person the file can't be opened and read. The alert means if you try to look at the file a systems admin is notified. Not good. There are work arounds to find out if a person/ name is locked, I will just leave it at that. SP as gov did have the power to lock and alert, I would guess. I know where I live the gov and admin of DSHS are the only two people who can put in place a lock and alert. I hope this makes sense now.

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 20:40

@Cyn, how does SSI eligibility work if the legal parent/guardian is entitled to health coverage from an employer? Can the parent simply choose not to enroll an eligible child in his/her employer's plan?

09/26/2011 20:47

Allie, I'll go to Providence when I get a chance. Expiration date, that sort of thing? From when to when, I guess. If I get arrested, either Beth or Rocky will bail me out. I'd bring Angel but he doesn't go to hospitals. Says he hates being reminded of his past.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 20:47

Allie: I'm surprised to see you saying that SP did not deliver Trig. I wonder what made you conclude that? I recall your saying the photos were not proof:

Allie Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:56:20 -- Ottoline, dueling pictures. It is exactly the fact that they do conflict that requires a leap of faith to accept your premise.

I'm always curious what ends up being proof for someone. Could you tell us what yours is, or when the turning point happened from "leap of faith" to hoax??

FrostyAK
09/26/2011 20:52

@ Cyn -"SP as gov did have the power to lock and alert, I would guess. "

Can we then follow that line of reasoning to determine that there IS probably something she wanted hidden?

rubbernecking
09/26/2011 21:00

@Cyn, as a follow-on to @FrostyAK's question can you tell us what data fields are stored in the SSA record? First name, last name, SSN, and date of birth? Anything else?

mmud
09/26/2011 21:27

Wow, the SSA locked Palin info is interesting, no? Good thinking, @Cyn.

09/26/2011 22:01

@Allie. "Holy cow!..." With all due respect --

Do you want to accept that Alaskans should be asked to surrender their free speech rights because of the bullying of the atmosphere there? If that's where we are, the polity is lost. Frosty AK, Celia and all others must be free of fear to put their names and addresses in any/all messages to anyone. If we can't go forward with such, we've 'lost the plot'. All of us. "Lower 48 logic"? No, it's standing up for free speech rights. If we don't do that..well we'll give up our democracy, step by step.

FrostyAK
09/26/2011 22:45

@nancydrewed

No, I don't want to give up my free speech rights. Nor do I want to give up my life to speak out under my own name instead of a pseudonym. Look at the suspicious occurrences in little old Wasilla since the pregnancy hoax. Are they all unrelated, coincidences? I thought not. So I speak under a pseudonym.

IF I were to fill out an investigative form, and my name was inadvertently released to the hospital, how long do you think it would take for my home to be torched with me in it? And the investigation sealed?

The whole Mat Su white pages (a borough the phyical size of W VA) is less than 1/2 inch thick. If I called the 'witness' to $P walking the hall at MSRHC while trying to 'give birth' - there's caller ID. People here don't answer calls from blocked numbers.

So, like others here, I go about my business privately. When I speak out, it is with protected identity ON THE INTERNET. Celia is a brave soul to use her real name. I am not so brave.

However, if I had the inside scoop on $P, I would risk all to get it out to the public. Unfortunately I don't have that info.

And yes, it most likely will be coming to your town soon, if the political atmosphere in this country doesn't change.

Allie RN
09/26/2011 22:50

@ Tom, The certificate should have a date that it was effective. We can add three years to know the next date of inspection. What we want to know is where 4/18/08 falls in the inspection schedule. As far as getting arrested, Jim, DON'T!

Otto, are you saving my quotes? Tell me you did a search function. Feeling a little creeped-out here.

To answer your question, from my memory, the context of the conversation was why the media wouldn't discuss babygate and why anyone looking at the March 14th photo did not instantly accept the hoax. I was not referring to myself. I was describing others.

I have stated several times that Sarah did not deliver Trig. Just a few days ago, about the IV, I explained why a pp mom would still have an IV several hours later for antibiotics. Then I said something like, of course, that would mean that the woman would actually have been in labor and given birth. Hint, hint, that meant Sarah hadn't been in labor and didn't give birth.

Just to extend this a bit more, the weakness in the hoax argument was always the photos taken on May 3rd and 4th. Why? Because the baby in those photos is compatible with a two-week old 6-pounder. To turn your March 14th photo question around, how could someone look at that group of photos and not see a two-week old who weighed 6-2 at birth? Sure looks like it to me. To this day we do not have a satisfactory explanation, which in my view weakens the hoax argument. That doesn't mean that Sarah delivered that baby, but one's suspicion index should be on just as high alert with those photos as with the 3/14 photo. The difference is that the baby might have been born on 4/18, but SP didn't deliver it (baby could be either sex) and Bristol was already pregnant with Tripp.

However, when Laura posted the new 3/26 museum picture, the evidence of the absence of a pregnancy at the stated gestational age 23 days before a purported birth of 35 weeks was compelling and had finally demonstrated the physiological impossibility. One big question answered.

The May photos are still a mystery. The reason why I suggested in the past that those photos were actually taken in February is because I think Trig was born in February and those photos were from a couple of weeks later. To me, the only other plausible option is that the baby in the pictures is someone else entirely. If those pictures were explained, then I think Babygate would be unassailable.

bees-wax
09/26/2011 23:02

Allie, is this the information you are looking for? Tom may not need to take a field trip if this answers your questions.

http://www.qualitycheck.org/qualityreport.aspx?hcoid=10219

It's the quality report on Mat-Su from the Joint Commission's site

bees-wax
09/26/2011 23:05

Actually, this is a better link. It's the accreditation history for Mat-Su.

http://www.qualitycheck.org/QualityReportHistory.aspx?hcoid=10219

Cyn
09/26/2011 23:07

SSA, Data base
1) Name and AKAs
2) DOB
3) Place of birth
4) Date application received by SSA admin/ date the SS# was issued.
5) State card was issued in FYI first 3 numbers are state identifiers ex: 535=WA 301=IL
6) Income earned as of last quarter under the SS#
7) Any claims applied for and or paid out under the SS#
8) Other SS# issued under name.
9) Current address

SSI works like this: Child born with down syndrome is Categoricaly eligible for medical coverage.( Medicaid) Even if other insurance is available to the child. In most case's the hospital social worker will submit the application with all the needed medical information. The private insurance will always be billed first, medicaid will pay what private insurance didn't cover, but at a much lower rate. This child may or may not stay eligible for medicaid. At 6 to 9 months the child will be evaluated re: general health milestones achivements. Most down syndrome babies do not lose medicaid eligibility at 9 to 12 months of age.
Unless the parents are eligible based on income.

Yes, Palin as guv had the power to lock Trigs or anyones SSA info.
Hope this helped and I covered everything.

Ottoline
09/26/2011 23:24

FrostyAK: I'm with you about being very careful re registering or leaving identifying tracks. There's just no benefit to you to have your identity and activities of any kind be searchable by others. And I'm talking about in a safe community. My web-savviest friends say "I seek zero web presence."

And in a place like Wasilla where car windows are shot out, arson is suspected, and teen vandalism is common, I would be as cautious as you are.

A v few completely innocuous and seemingly unrelated datapoints that one has supplied to the web can often be connected with ease now, and that can be way more exposure than one would want. For example, when McG posted the photos of his beautiful grandchildren I was shocked, esp considering how many data points McG has put into the public domain about himself.

nancydrewd
09/26/2011 23:35

Allie RN
09/26/2011 23:42

Goodness, Nancy.

Shoot, I edited my comment and now I can see it didn't flow right. My Holy Cow and perspective sentences were in response to all the comments about Mat-Su as though Sarah had actually delivered there. She didn't. There was a lot of action being discussed about a non-event.

My lower 48 logic remark refers to steps that we might take down here in the lower 48 when we want to question some institution or policy or whatever. To us, the constitution and laws apply. Letters, phone calls, they might work. One thing that Joe's book makes very clear is that the environment is different in Alaska. Complaints aren't well-received and negative repercussions follow. Sarah fired whoever she wanted to and they had no recourse. Being terminated is disruptive to one's life in a state that isn't drowning in jobs and potential employers are either loyal to your previous employer or intimidated by her. If you didn't agree to do things her way and you exercised your first amendment right, and she didn't fire you, she cut the budget until you threw in the towel and left. Sure, she is the quitter now, but her mentality is alive and well in the state of Alaska.

On the ironic side and, Laura, I think you'll appreciate this. The very first person she fired was the director of the Wasilla museum. She doesn't believe in museums. Yet, it is her being photographed leaving a museum in her non-pregnant state that is a central key to her unraveling. Delicious!!!

nancydrewed
09/27/2011 00:08

FrostryAK --Apparently, I didn't make myself clear. What I tried to suggest to Allie is that "we" must stand behind all of "you". You certainly must do only what you feel comfortable doing. But your feeling afraid is something for the rest of us to stand against in solidarity. We should all stand together, and the "lower 48 perspective" is a way of diminishing that solidarity. Unless, of course you think that the lower 48 isn't reliably and importantly related to you and yours. I hope not. You must do only what you feel you can do, but the rest of us can certainly watch and gauge how your fears are meaningful to us all.

If you feel uncomfortable putting your name to anything...that's a concern to me. Otherwise, it's coming to "your town soon" as you say, becomes a prescription for a national infection. I don't accept that. Sorry.

Allie RN
09/27/2011 00:09

Thanks, bees-wax, I got what I needed. I did not know those reports were online.

So, no field trips necessary. Thanks, anyway, Jim.

09/27/2011 00:47

Comment lost. All best to all Alaska friends and Allie too. Try again another day.

Allie RN
09/27/2011 00:55

bummer on the lost comment, Nancy. Best to you, too.

ginny11
09/27/2011 03:46

Celia, thank you for that post, first-hand description of the culture and atmosphere of corruption and inappropriate/illegal behavior by the medical professional community in AK. I have always wanted to visit AK, and even considered living there (there are frequent job openings in my field up there), but after all I've learned thanks to the infamous SP, I think I will stick to a vacation someday. :-( After all you have been through, it's amazing to me that you stay up there. You must really love your home!

comeonpeople
09/27/2011 05:01

@SLQ and everyone,
I do not see how the clerk can be violating HIPAA, Palin can just say she agreed to let the info out, just as she would have to agree to let her med recs be viewed. It is a plus for her if anyone at MatSu would say he was born there.

Also, someone up thread asked me why Audrey shut down the JCAHO and Medical Board discussions early on. I don't remember exactly, she felt it was fruitless, maybe HIPAA. It is rather daunting to have to put your real info on the complaints, which is what held me up too long. I do not care what people say, I firmly truly believe that continued pressure and questions on the medical establishment is what can break this case. There are standards of care and regulations. There is the public safety angle (Palin's doctor said it was not unreasonable to fly when SHE was leaking amniotic fluid). CBJ should be asked if she had the requiste requirements to perform a c-section if it was needed. NO one has asked these questions. These are the questions we need to get asked. Chip, chip, chip way at the facade from all angles. This has been an underused angle.

NSG
09/27/2011 05:15

Wow. And O/T.

Just caught Nicole Wallace on the Today Show, and at the end of the interview with Lester Holt, she plugged her new novel, "It's Classified."

It was fast and my eyes were glazing over as they often do when former Bush admin people ramble, but in describing the book, she said that the story is about a female VP being investigated for her fitness for office.

Is this Nicolle's shot across the bow to Palin?!

Interesting, because I checked the Amazon blurb and that makes it sound more like it's about 4 different women (the VP is one) as part of a story about life behind the scenes in the White House. But, man, she did just talk about the mental fitness of a female VP!

Will have to pay attention. Not in a hurry to line Wallace's pockets by buying the book but now very curious...



NSG
09/27/2011 05:31

Re Nicolle Wallace's book (due out 9/27 -- 1 week post-Rogue & Levi).

Link with excerpts:
http://books.simonandschuster.com/It's-Classified/Nicolle-Wallace/9781451610963/excerpt

I think this is very interesting. Wallace has threatened to share more of her knowledge about Palin from the '08 campaign should Palin run, IIRC?

Well, what a cool way to get a message across by putting something in fiction.

The excerpts in the above link have the VP ignoring her 9yo daughter while her husband is frustrated, as she writes a letter apologizing to the President while movers pack up their things at the Naval Observatory. Then it cuts to a Grand Jury room where some WH communications official is being asked about the VP, whether "White House officials had committed a crime by hiding the vice president's condition from the public."

I'm definitely going to pay more attention to this. Anyone else hear anything?

I wonder if MeAgain will have any knowledge of this. September is REALLY sucking for SP. :D




Lidia17
09/27/2011 05:53

@Ottoline, no I never did get a mail about Letterman or Sedaris from anyone.

@comeonpeople, that’s too bad about JCAHO. I remember getting shot down there when I said she had mental problems, go figure!

@Cyn, excellent point about pacing vs. induction of labor!

@Laura, Piper is really going to be in for it now that Bristol and Willow have flown the nest. I did see a comment that she was out and about town on her own, with a teenage friend. She’s going to have the same non-supervision as the older children, plus she’s no longer going to have whatever minimal support her siblings provided. If Track and Britta are in the compound, though, I hope Britta helps Piper out.

RE: the lawsuit. This is just a coordinated campaign to trash Joe’s book in the eyes of the masses. That’s the Breitbart/O’Keefe M.O.: nothing they say they “have” on anyone would ever be actually damaging to anyone in a sane world, but they do incite hundreds of thousands of nutty teabaggers to think “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” with their damaging lies. People like my RWNJ sister *really think* that ACORN helps out pimps, that Sherrod is a racist, Landrieu is a traitor, etc. They count on left-wing shock and spinelessness in the face of their rabid and insane attacks, and that strategy has worked: ACORN was de-funded, Sherrod lost her job, and O’Keefe got away with a slap on the wrist when, if he’d had an Arabic, name, by today’s general practices he should have been tossed into Guantanamo as an enemy of the state for trying to tap into the phones of a member of Congress.

Brietbart’s crew (including Riehl and RSMcCain) is thick as thieves with Palin. They will make a big stink, but this will never get to court. While normal people might be interested in the outcome of a fair process, that’s not what interests the Breitbarters; I believe what interests them is the stink itself, the stink for it’s own sake—a much cheaper and easier way to get results.

Lidia17
09/27/2011 06:00

Good run-down of the lawyer's letter over at Politicalgates:

http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/09/sarah-palin-threatens-joe-mcginnisss.html

comeonpeople
09/27/2011 06:29

More CYA ....MatSu now lists Baldwin-Johnson as family practice/ obstetrics as her specialty. I thought it was abused adolescents and sexual abuse? I tried the wayback machine but couldn't get a website passed June 2010 when she wasn't listed as on staff. I wonder if she has been laying low all these years actually doing the 30-60 c-sections required to actually be a FP physician who can deliver high risk pregnancies? Sure would seem like a lot of hoops to jump through to cover her ass for a nutcase like Palin. I wonder if this was perhaps the deal she struck in order to keep practicing medicine? Inquiring minds want to know.If this is possible, What a shame for her that to cover for Palin they make her try and reinvent herself. This is all conjecture on my part. Sure is curious though.

Dangerous
09/27/2011 06:30

Again, I think Weigel made it up. His description is so far-fetched, and the "unit clerk" he claims to have spoken too seems so unlikely to have given him any information at all (given HIPAA restrictions) even to a "Washington DC reporter". I would think especially to a Washington DC reporter she wouldn't say anything.

Besides, was that unit clerk even at Mat-su that night? I doubt it. Would a "clerk" have direct knowledge of what happened? Doubtful. It was in the papers and nobody denies that Palin and was there and some baby was there. That's how a ruse is completed.

So either he made it up or he's a lousy "reporter". I don't see anything about even this unnamed source having any direct knowledge of anything. He doesn't even say he asked. Do we have confirmation of details of her admission to the hospital, such as the time? No. Since it events were reported at the time, she should be able to confirm such details as exact time and admitting physician. The only detail Weigel adds he admits he made up: "the clerk audibly rolled her eyes."

This proves once again that MSM is NOT JOURNALISM and probably never will be again. We all do more journalism than they do.

Can someone in Alaska PLEASE go to Mat-su and ask a unit clerk in the maternity department to provide as much information as Weigel claims to have received. If resisted, show the unit clerk (or director) Weigel's article and ask them to confirm whether such a conversation actually took place. If so, why does a cold-caller get this information, and not a reporter in Alaska.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 06:45

Dangerous - I imagine the clerk, realizing she was talking to a journalist from DC, enjoyed being the gatekeeper of information. It's fun to be the one with the down-low. And her logic: of course Palin had the baby there because everyone knows she had the baby there.

Same logic as the ADN and as Dave Weigel himself.

There are so many people who get can't get past the idea that someone just wouldn't lie about this. Weigel seems to have been one of them.

(Although I did sense a slight change of tone in his review of The Rogue.)

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 06:51

For many of us, our lack of medical training, our home state, age, or gender may make us poor candidates for submitting JCAHO complaints about OB practices in MatSu, AK.

There are plenty of dangerous hospitals and it's in everyone's best interest that JCAHO does their work seriously.

I don't recommend inundating JCAHO with complaints. If you have training or personal experience that allows you to make a complaint in good conscience, this is fine. But for the rest of us, submitting complaints for obviously political reasons may be counter-productive.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 07:07

Got a response from the Joint Commission. In response to my first complaint, I got the same letter comeonpeople did about the three year limit. But they say they will investigate my second complaint, about the clerk talking to Weigel:

"Thank you for bringing your concerns about the above named organization to the attention of The Joint Commission.

As the leading evaluator and accreditor of health care organizations in this country, The Joint Commission takes seriously any information received about one of our accredited organizations. As such, we will review your submission for possible non-compliance with accreditation requirements, and determine what action should be pursued. The possibilities are:

Asking the organization for a written response
Conducting an immediate for-cause survey at the organization to evaluate the issues
Evaluation of your concerns as part of a regular survey at the organization
Including your information in a database for future consideration or
Determining that the issues underlying your complaint are not related to The Joint Commission standards, and therefore, cannot be evaluated by The Joint Commission.
Thank you for taking the time to inform us of this issue. If you need to contact us, please feel free to do so and refer to the above incident number.

Sincerely,

Office of Quality Monitoring"

comeonpeople
09/27/2011 07:09

rubbernecking, read the JCAHO site. It is available for the General Public to voice concerns.No stipulations . Do not try to squash this avenue of pusuit please..

mary
09/27/2011 07:22

I read Wallace's first novel - called Eighteen Aces - hoping that there'd be some digs at Palin through a character based on her. The character doesn't appear till toward the end, but it is a woman who is tapped as VP and who is highly charismatic and yet dresses inappropriately and grates on the nerves of the novel's protagonist. Anyway, It's Classified is a sequel and deals with the discovery and cover-up of the VP's mental instability and lack of fitness for office.

Ottoline
09/27/2011 07:23

lidia17 and Rationalist (and anyone else who is interested): I have an idea for a funny video. If interested, could you give Laura your email and she will forward to you, I hope.

fig
09/27/2011 07:24

Brad, Does Matsu get state or Federal dollars? If so, you may be able to do a FOIA request. The FOIA request would have to be about your letter rather than Sarah's Bristol's or Trig's medical records, but maybe you could get to see if there if beginning to be a frenzy behind the scenes. It may be eyeopenning

Rationalist
09/27/2011 07:42

P.S. I'm going to write the commission back and ask under what circumstances they make an exception to the three year rule.

09/27/2011 07:48

@Lidia - you have one of the stiffest spines out there! :)

Viola-Alex
09/27/2011 07:59

"Wife of Mexican Drug Lord Gives Birth in CA"

I guess we have laxer HIPAA here. (even details from the birth certificate!)

http://news.yahoo.com/wife-mexican-drug-lord-gives-birth-calif-044415749.html

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 08:12

@comeonpeople, can we discuss the response you received from JCAHO?

Your letter says JCAHO is unable to evaluate issues greater than three years old. Therefore, your complaint has not met the JCAHO criteria for review.

The bullets describes what information is available to the public. You may write a letter and ask how many issues JCAHO has *accepted for review* for a particular hospital. Your complaint would not be included in this count--because your complaint did not meet the JCAHO's criteria for review.

I see nothing in the JCAHO response that says the volume of requests changes their review criteria. I also read the Report a Complaint web site.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 08:26

Rubbernecking - you are right that any complaint is going to receive this stock response. I've submitted an addendum to my complaint asking under which grounds they waive the 3-year rule and to whom one must appeal.

I agree that inundating them with requests is probably not effective at this point. But once we find out how to appeal, that may be the time for multiple concerned citizens to express their concern that Mat-Su allowed such a risky birth.

Lidia17
09/27/2011 08:27

Ottoline, I believe you have my email, but sure, you can send it through Laura.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 08:33

Oh yeah, Ottoline, I will email Laura and give her my email address.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 08:34

@Rationalist, thanks. Getting information on the appeal or waiver process sounds like a reasonable next step.

09/27/2011 08:46

I neglected to also thank Cecilia for her ongoing descriptions on the blogs of her life in AK and the struggles she's encountered. I wish your experience were different, but we all appreciate you sharing it with us.

Yes indeed, PoGates has a good post up now on the "lawyer's letter": http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/

Go forth and read if you haven't already.

@Lidia: you make a good point about the older kids being out of the house and how that makes it even tougher for Piper. No one to absorb the shock waves, anger, yelling and all around horrible tension that must be prevailing there.

@Cyn, can you contact me at LaNovakAuthor@yahoo.com? Thanks all!

comeonpeople
09/27/2011 09:06

Yes, i read the bullet the way you all do as well. My point being, having the ability to say that there have been so many numbers of complaints about MatSu is useful...in dealings with Matsu or any media. At least we have something concrete to show that people have been concerned and for sometime now.
Gotta go do other real world stuff for awhile.i'll be interested in the waiver info. I guess I am sensitive to people who say "don't do this or don't do that"...becasue by listening to others who said "ont do this or dont do that"I missed a good opportunity at the outset of this farce.
I am now of the mindset that not doing things gets us nowhere fast.

Jo
09/27/2011 09:41

@comeonpeople--You are doing great! Keep at it.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 09:41

@comeonpeople, thanks for the feedback. My intentions were good. I wanted us to consider if JCAHO would be better motivated by the quality vs quantity of complaints.

I think @Rationalist is taking the correct next step.

Another follow-up might be to request the publicly available info on complaints JCAHO has already accepted and reviewed for MatSu. It's possible someone else filed a complaint during the eligible time period.

As @Susan pointed out, one of our problems is that the public may not be entitled to the detailed findings of a medical investigation.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 10:24

That's a great idea about publicly available info. Probably better if that request doesn't come from me. Wanna do it?

SLQ
09/27/2011 10:31

Comeonpeople, you said, "I do not see how the clerk can be violating HIPAA, Palin can just say she agreed to let the info out, just as she would have to agree to let her med recs be viewed. It is a plus for her if anyone at MatSu would say he was born there. "

But this creates a quagmire for MSRMC. If they say Palin waived HIPAA for the purpose of allowing Mat-Su to confirm that Trig was born there, they'd be then opening themselves up to more questioning. It's all or nothing on that topic. They wouldn't be able to hide under HIPAA, and the media would be looking to interview more than just a receptionist.

As long as Mat-Su says nothing officially about the birth, it's fair to make a claim that the receptionist violated HIPAA by making the offhand comment. It's a catch-22 for them.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 10:34

I'm loving these Catch-22s.

SLQ
09/27/2011 10:43

V-A: California law appears to be different than Alaska law with regard to b/c privacy. In AK, b/cs are not public until 100 years after birth. I just looked, and in CA, any person can receive an "informational copy" of a b/c.

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Pages/AthorizedCopyvsInformationalCopy.aspx

Ottoline
09/27/2011 10:45

Just FYI -- I was trying to contact Rationalist and lidia17 because they expressed some interest in making a funny video, and I recently sent an idea for a fake-preg skit to Letterman and Amy Sedaris, which got no response (of course: they hate unsolicited submissions, because they fear people suing them for stealing intellectual property, when they simply had the same idea around the same time.)

So I don't think this is going anywhere, but since my little script was written . . . . If this turns into anything, we'll include you all in, re info, but I'm doubtful at this point -- with so much else going on it might not be needed, if we could even put something effective together. Just didn't want to be mysterious or exculsionary.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 10:48

@Rationalist, let's allow @comeonpeople to weigh in on this. I don't have any professional or geographic basis for pursuing MatSu accreditation issues. My interests are strictly political.

Like everyone here, I genuinely hope women are getting excellent maternal care in AK. I just don't have the expertise to have an intelligent follow-up with JCAHO on this topic.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 11:05

@rubbernecking: makes sense to me, although I think it's legitimate to express concern as a member of the public. But more powerful coming from a member of the Alaskan community.

Anon 238/Me Again is back:

Anonymous said...

Thanks to everyone who had words of caution regarding security and safety.

I admit the Breitbart email weighed heavily on my mind despite the fact that I DO believe what Gryphen says about not being hacked.

My meeting in Anch ran over and I ended up laying awake most of the night in my hotel bed thinking, my mind racing...I know Sarah has talked to her legal attack poodle Tiemessin (whose slogan should be TIE-MESS-IN: I put the MESS in lawyerin') about me and he explained to her that she would have to directly refute (with proof) something I said. He supposedly explained "legally actionable" things to her and she is watching me like a hawk. However, I plan to stay far, far away from anything "actionable".

So I had been thinking of all manner of ways to transmit my stuff to Gryphen without risking my security...I'd thought about couriers (as someone mentioned) and doing a. "drop" somewhere...and then I thought to myself...this is utterly insane. It's time to sink or swim. Time to put up or shut up, fish or cut bait, so on and so forth.

When I get home I'm just going to "suck it up, buttercup" and let the chips fall where they may.


To the poster who did the social security death index research...WOW! The fact that you managed to rule out all but one, and the ONE has a very similar last name as Levi...

This could be huge!
8:50 AM
Anonymous said...

On a tip from a friend, I downloaded, It's Classified by Nicole Wallace. Wallace was one of Palin's handlers during her VP run. She promised to speak out if Sarah ever announced her bid for president. Seems she laid most of the madness in this fictional tale which gives a possible glimpse of what a bullet we dodged. In the book, her fictional character "Tara" has a mental breakdown upon starting office as the VP, complete with canceling meetings and events, occasionally going catatonic, fighting an eating disorder, neglecting her child, and on and on. I will have to enjoy the fiction until the non- fiction reality comes to pass...another lawsuit may be being contemplated....
9:43 AM

FrostyAK
09/27/2011 11:48

@ fig

"Brad, Does Matsu get state or Federal dollars?"

If Medicare and Medicaid payments qualify as state/federal dollars, then yes, they do get government money.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 11:51

I think this happened to Woodward once. He got stuck hanging out in the Watergate garage because Deepthroat got immersed in a spy novel. ;-)

Melly
09/27/2011 12:27

I seem to remember Gryph saying many months ago that "Fred"'s upcoming book was going to be zeroing in on Mat-su's role in babygate. Perhaps Fred has made a lot of the inquiries being discussed here, leaving super sensitive personnel behind him. That makes now either a very good time or a very difficult time to approach them.

FrostyAK
09/27/2011 12:39

OT - $appy Sarah'$ $illy law$uit has help The Rogue increase in rank from 131 yesterday to 78 today on Amazon. Hopefully the same will be true on the NYT bestseller li$t.

09/27/2011 12:50

Malia Litman is all over it: http://malialitman.wordpress.com/2011/09/27/sarah-palins-attorney-threatens-suit-against-the-anchorage-police-department/

Worth checking out.

09/27/2011 13:01

@Dangerous. You wrote "This proves once again that MSM is NOT JOURNALISM and probably never will be again. We all do more journalism than they do."

Here's Andrew Sullivan on the subject today:

"If the Beltway gave McGinniss the same respect they give Bob Woodward - whose sources are just as mysterious but far more powerful - we'd have advanced in our understanding of the Palin disaster in the GOP and America. But liberals more than anyone want this understanding shut down. Because the poor fuckers are afraid of being called lefty haters. What a bunch of cowards and poseurs."

Wish he'd clarified a bit with a phrase more like 'establishment liberals' -- but he's thrown it out to his tons of readers nonetheless.

Kind of leaves Weigel in an odd spot. The lone conservative on Journo-List who proclaimed "nothing to see there" last summer. I seem to remember he vacationed in AK and that Ms. Moore assured him the pregger's rumor was tinhat stuff. So there.

Brad Scharlott
09/27/2011 13:07

Anon: "To the poster who did the social security death index research...WOW! "

What is that about?

JJ
09/27/2011 13:21

Brad -
Here you go:
Anonymous said...

Regarding Ruffles, I've posted this before, but once someone dies, they are vastly more easier to track down because the Social Security Death Index is part of the public record. Not everyone ends up on it, but it is fairly complete. I searched for babies who were born before 4/08 and who died in Alaska after 6/08. The latter date was chosen because I believe we see Ruffles in the two photos in Bailey's book, which he dates as May and June '08. The search found about 10 babies. Searching the Web further I convinced myself that 9 of the babies could be ruled out. The one remaining is listed as M. Johnso, born 2/26/2008, died 6/6/2008, SS 574-51-6097. This baby was not born before Valentine's Day, so one question is, does MA's photograph really prove that Ruffles was born by 2/14? Could he possibly have ended up an outfit that was around at that time of year?

4:22 AM

Rationalist
09/27/2011 13:30

And I checked 411.com to search for last name "Johnso" in Alaska. Found one record in Juneau who is a 34 year old male.

I don't really know what to do with this information. The last thing we would want is to harass someone whose baby had died.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 13:48

People Magazine took photos of Trig on 6/11/2008.

http://www.crivellawest.net/palin2011/pdf/16071.pdf

These photos appeared in a Sep 2008 issue of People.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20223201,00.html

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 14:05

FYI: Lorenzo Benet wrote the first People magazine story and then one of the early Palin biographies.

You can read the intro to his book which confirms he met Palin in June 2008 and how the story was held up for 2 months.

http://books.google.com/books?id=q_iIMb-jOGkC&lpg=PP1&dq=lorenzo%20benet&pg=PT9#v=onepage&q=Trig%20Paxton&f=false

Here's another email that discussed the photo shoot at the Palin's home in Wasilla:

http://www.crivellawest.net/palin2011/pdf/15765.pdf

I think Anon238 is leading us on a wild goose chase.

eclecticsandra
09/27/2011 14:09

The People picture looks more like the hospital baby than the Ruffles baby.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 14:17

@rubbernecking - why do you say that? That picture is not of Ruffles.

FEDUP!!!
09/27/2011 14:20

Well, the lawsuit threat sure backfired on $arah! Joe's book went from #138 yesterday to #78 this am, and by now to #72 on amazon.com!

Melly
09/27/2011 14:22

Me Again doesn't actually have the photo of Valentine's day Trig. SP does, and MeAgain has suggested that SP would destroy it to protect herself.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 14:34

@Rationalist, I am not an advocate of the multi-Trig theory. To me, the baby in the People shoot has Down Syndrome and appears to have a pointy ear.

It's my opinion that the baby in the People Magazine photo also resembles the baby in the baby shower photos.

FEDUP!!!
09/27/2011 14:36

Frosty: What I have done at least one time (don't remember if more... ;) ) is that I simply gave COMPLETELY false info with a fake name and address.
Don't remember if I had to give a valid email address, though (don't believe so, because then I wouldn't have submitted the specific info/form - which, BTW, WAS followed up by the respective authorities! :) )

FEDUP!!!
09/27/2011 14:39

Oh, and BTW, the info I gave was about something occurring in our local hospital ;)

Ivyfree
09/27/2011 14:40

"This baby was not born before Valentine's Day, so one question is, does MA's photograph really prove that Ruffles was born by 2/14? Could he possibly have ended up an outfit that was around at that time of year?"

But valentines, while they are to celebrate a specific date, are mailed or sent any time around that event. It's entirely possible that the valentine outfit was something in the hospital gift shop, or even ordered online. Valentines can arrive early, but who wouldn't take a picture of a new baby in a cute outfit?

09/27/2011 14:49

Another Must Read if you haven't already:

http://my.firedoglake.com/geoffreydunn/2011/09/27/blood-in-the-snow-maslin’s-nyt-review-of-the-rogue-is-intellectually-dishonest/

Rationalist
09/27/2011 14:51

@Rubbernecking - I see. Well, then, I understand your skepticism. Gryphen's Ruffles post was convincing to me.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 14:58

@Rationalist, I read Laura's post on this topic very closely.

http://www.lauranovakauthor.com/1/post/2011/06/the-neonatologist-ear-nose-and-upper-lip.html

My take away was that the doctors acknowledged the ear changes were very unusual but neither would definitely declare the photos were different babies.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 15:12

@Rubbernecking -

Well, me too, and he/she kept referring to "the excellent Gryphen post." He could not definitely state there were two babies, but he did not rule it out either:

"But I’m not an ENT and I’d really like to hear what one would say before I’d definitively call these different babies."

However, I do understand that there are those of us for whom the Ruffles story makes sense and those for whom it just doesn't.

(See, trolls? This is how it's done. It's called "respectfully disagreeing.")

Sharon_Too_Also
09/27/2011 15:29

@Laura Novak

"Another Must Read if you haven't already:"

http://my.firedoglake.com/geoffreydunn/2011/09/27/blood-in-the-snow-maslin’s-nyt-review-of-the-rogue-is-intellectually-dishonest/

Folks - don't skip a word of this piece. Geoffrey Dunn has eviscerated Janet Maslin over her NYT review.

I say war has been declared on Sarah Palin and our side has some serious ammunition.

Karen
09/27/2011 15:32

MA wasn't the person who did the research on Ruffles, it was a different anonymous. MA thought it was interesting and might be an explanation.

I agree with @rationalist, I also think the baby in the Palin's kitchen is different from the baby presented by the Heaths, and different from the Trig on the stage at the Convention. If so, he or she could have been borrowed for a few showings and returned to an adoption group.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 15:35

@Rationalist, I also thought Gryphen's post was very compelling and exciting when it first ran. But over time, I've found the theory less convincing. We've gathered more photographic evidence--such as the photos in Bailey's book and photos of toddler-aged Trig.

I think it was a theory worth-pursuing but I don't think it's given us useful leads. It seems to create far more questions for us than it answers.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 15:50

@Rubbernecking - well, that is for sure. My brain hurts trying to put it all together.

But it doesn't really matter, as only the most Palin-obsessed are following that. It will be enough for the public to absorb the reality that Palin lied about being pregnant all this time.

SLQ
09/27/2011 15:55

I checked Intellius.com for "Johnson" (I have found it gives more hits that 411 or yahoo people search), and got 7 names. The results are a bit curious, though, as several of them indicate they are "related to" people named Johnson and/or they have aliases of "Johnson." All but one indicate ages not consistent with childbirth. One has no age, Gennifer Moreau Johnso, who has lived in Juneau, Anchorage, and Kodiak.

Not sure how that helps anything . . .



Phyllis
09/27/2011 16:02

I checked the Alaska Permanent Fund applicant data base for 2009 and 2011.
There was no Johnso for either year.

SLQ
09/27/2011 16:06

I found a search feature on ADN that allows you to search archived obituaries by date range for all Alaska newspapers. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/adn/

I did not find one for this poor baby. This only means there was no obit. There should have been a death notice in the paper, but I didn't find that as part of the search function yet.

SLQ
09/27/2011 16:12

Sigh. Typo (one that matters). I searched "Johnso" not "Johnson" on Inetllius.

Viola-Alex
09/27/2011 16:12

M. Johnso born 26 Feb 2008 died 6 June 2008 ss # 574-51-6097

(I hacked my mom's Ancestry.com account.)

Karen
09/27/2011 16:14

"I think it was a theory worth-pursuing but I don't think it's given us useful leads. It seems to create far more questions for us than it answers."

And there's the rub. There is one person who could put all this speculation to rest and save her family from the embarrassment of these endless questions. But she refuses.

Viola-Alex
09/27/2011 16:15

There is also:

Name: Anika Golia
Birth: 21 Feb 2008
Death: 19 Jul 2008
Civil: Alaska

Up
09/27/2011 16:18

HIPAA violations are investigated by the US Dept of HEalth & Human Svc Office of Civil Rights.

Www.HHS.gov/OCR/Privacy/index.html

Anyone aware of a HIPAA violation can report via the website. But will reporting just result in the chatty Cathy on the ob unit being fired?

If a patient agrees to be listed in the directory then the hospital can tell callers the patient was treated and released (or deceased.).

09/27/2011 16:21

@Laura, re firedoglake. Well, this is a bullseye if I've ever seen one. Thank you for the link.

Get out your tweeters folks. This is the big one. btw, Fully devastating and without a word about babygate. No one could miss the import in Dunn's review. Janet Maslin should be ashamed of this mistake. Shoveling and back-filling to quietly ensue I imagine.

Viola-Alex
09/27/2011 16:22

There are many poor babes on Ancestry.com from AK who live just a year or two. I had no idea, so if there's anything else you want me to search, let me know.

SLQ
09/27/2011 16:24

V-A, does Ancestry give the parents' names? I wouldn't necessarily ask that you post them here, but I think that's what's important to know here.

Up
09/27/2011 16:28

BTW, did anyone see the NYT blog post about Sarah being "very close" to announcing one way or the other? Caught my eye this morning coming on the heels of Me Again's comment about the two speeches.

FrostyAK
09/27/2011 16:32

Thank you Mr Dunn for the excellent review of Joe's book and the evisceration of the NYT hatchet job "review".

Hmmm, 5 days before the embargo was lifted... methinks Janet should lose her job over that one. That is if MSM is worth ANYthing.

Viola-Alex
09/27/2011 16:43

@SLQ - no just the ss#. I'll search for any Johnso adults in AK, but www.pipl.com which is the search engine I use shows none.

How many states have their birth records sealed like AK? It seems very odd to me, as if it protects a way of life there where no one can see who a child's parents are.

NSG
09/27/2011 16:43

More support for Dunn's piece at FDL.

PLEASE consider registering & commenting to help it get more attention. Right now it's in the "recommended" sidebar. With enough comments & activity, it could get front-paged.

http://my.firedoglake.com/geoffreydunn/2011/09/27/blood-in-the-snow-maslin%e2%80%99s-nyt-review-of-the-rogue-is-intellectually-dishonest/

jeff
09/27/2011 16:43

@Sharon_also_too ,

Thanks so much for the link to Dunn's article at FDL. It's a travesty that anyone of any notoriety uses Maslin's shoddy piece to excuse their own laziness. I hope Dunn gets wide coverage with his insightful piece.

rubbernecking
09/27/2011 16:51

@Karen, I'm not particularly touchy-feely but I was struck by how besotted Bristol seemed with the Trig at the RNC. Levi and Piper also appeared emotionally attached, but Bristol seemed like she was in an altered state at times.

I don't know what role her pregnancy hormones played, but I was struck how at ease she and Trig were with each other. I struggle to believe Bristol, Piper, and Levi could fake that level of affection for a borrowed baby.

I know it's subjective. The more objective ear analysis seems perfect for my Spock-like fondness for facts, but I can't get over the photos of Bristol at the RNC. I think Bristol and this baby spent a lot of time together before the convention.

SLQ
09/27/2011 16:56

Many states have private birth records. State child protective services would have a way to access to that information, though. And birth certificates are required for many things, such as school enrollment. So it's not really secret, just controlled.

eclecticsandra
09/27/2011 16:57

Rubbernecking, I think most of us believe the Trig we saw at the RNC is the one we have known all along. The kitchen and shower babies that we have called, "Ruffles," seems to be the borrowed one. There has never been a picture of Bristol holding him/her.

Viola-Alex
09/27/2011 17:04

great essay by G. Dunn on Maslin's review. Thank you so much for relaying.

09/27/2011 17:16

@Rubbernecking: Remember this: "Bristol and her brother are napping in the bus"? That was the first time I was certain that Bristol and HER baby were in the bus. Why wasn't Piper napping with him? Or a nanny? But it was Bristol.

I've never shaken the idea that she is the birth mother.

Just finished reading Chapter 19 for the second time.

More powerful by far the second time around with the steady drumbeat of 18 chapters preceding it.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 17:26

me again is back:


Jane,

Thank you so much for your caring concern.

Today I purchased software which is supposed to make email transmissions "impenetrable" to hacking. I think it's what I need; I am not concerned about someone intercepting or hacking an email and identifying my city/state--everyone already knows that. What I was scared of is someone hacking or intercepting an email and being able to trace it back to my front door! Between the thug advising people to preemptively make a "defense fund" for Todd to beat up Joe and the email between Joe and Gryphen being conveniently (for Sarah) leaked...I admit I got a bit gun shy with regard to contacting Gryphen.

But between this software I've bought and the fact that I'm neither a famous blogger nor a bestselling author...I think I'm over my little panic attack. Envisioning an army of Palin loyalists with pitchforks, marching up my drive to hurt me and destroy my daily show memorabilia...scary.

I really think our death index gumshoe may be onto something. I heard Sarah started texting like a teenager in church when she read it.

My source does not think a baby died. But she said obviously the idea of searching birth/death records made Sarah very, very nervous.


-MeAgain

Sunshine1970
09/27/2011 17:30

@ SQL. There doesn't have to be a death notice. It's up to the family if they want one placed, or not. A funeral home/crematorium usually has to be the one that sends it in. On occasion, though a family member (ONLY a family member--no friends or acquaintences) will place one, but there has to be a verification of the death, ie a death certificate.

I'd think the county where the person died would have records of every one who died. They have to be recorded there.

Sunshine1970
09/27/2011 17:33

oops. I should add, RE death notices, this is how our newspaper handles them in my city. I don't know if a death notice is required in other cities, but my gut feeling is they're not...

Brad Scharlortt
09/27/2011 17:34

I'm still stuck at thinking it's a long-shot for Bristol to have a DS baby and it's fortuitous for Palin if Bristol did - but maybe that is how it worked. So why was Ruffled Ears brought in at all?

Rationalist
09/27/2011 17:42

Brad - that's the million dollar question! I can't fathom it.

Up
09/27/2011 17:45

Brad, Ruffles was brought in because Trig (who I'm not convinced was actually premature at his actual birth) was too big to pass off as a child born 5 weeks premature.

I had a baby born 5 weeks early but perfectly healthy aside from a touch of jaundice. Baby Up looked just like Ruffles... scrawny chicken legs, no fat on the body. Face like a little alien because there was no fat under the cheeks.

Someone posted on this blog in the last few days (last post Laura made) that there were comments at an Alaska newspaper website immediately after the Chuck 'n Sally picture was shown, that the baby was no preemie.

SLQ
09/27/2011 17:48

Sunshine, thanks. I was under the impression that the local paper reports death notices from some source, like the coroner. My only experience with this is when a close relative died. We had no control of the death notice. In fact, I was frantically trying to reach two close friends of this relative before they read in the paper, which was only a day and a half after the death (which was late in the day). I can't remember who informed us when it was going to be published, but I think it may have been the coroner, as I don't think we had met with the funeral home people at that point. The death notice was just a sentence or two.

The obituary, however, was a different story. That was optional, though we did write it and submit it to the newspaper. It was published a few days after the death notice.

As you say, perhaps it depends on state law, or even just custom.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 17:49

It could be something as simple as Trig had the flu for a couple weeks. Or Bristol was refusing to play along for a little while.

I don't know where you get a temp baby, but maybe CBJ does.

But jeez! I could sort of see - in bizarro PalinLand - taking that baby to the shower. But to a People Magazine photo session?

Unless you thought Trig 1 wasn't coming back...

FrostyAK
09/27/2011 17:51

Suggest going over to Firedoglake and commenting on Dunn's review. I did, of course under my pseudonym.

SLQ
09/27/2011 17:51

P.S. I just looked, and the ADN does have an obituary section and a death notice section on their obit page, which is like the newspaper we were dealing with.

Perhaps someone in AK could go to a library and look for the death notices in that week? Or, as you say, go to the county clerk's office and look at the death certificate?

Up
09/27/2011 17:55

@Rationalist, newborn children don't always go immediately into the custody of their adoptive parents. Sometimes they go to a foster family for days, weeks or months before going to the adoptive parents. Between her church connections and CBJ it is possible she could get one of those kids. (IMHO the state foster system would be too public.)

SLQ
09/27/2011 18:04

I just remembered that when President Obama's birth certificate was an issue (don't remind me), there was a birth index in Hawaii. Although his birth certificate wasn't available to the public, that book (which was a series of bound computer print-outs listing just name, date, and a few other minor things) was.

I don't recall ever seeing this discussed, but I could have missed it. Maybe I'll call them tomorrow.
Has anyone mentioned whether or not AK has a similar birth record indix.

kelgal
09/27/2011 18:15

I've gone from being obsessed by the Palin pregnancy hoax/es to distractedly fascinated by the relationships between MeAgain - her insider - and Sarah.

Why would SP continue to allow access to her most personal communications to someone who is so obviously spilling the beans to an outsider who is then posting the info on IM!?!

I believe MA is legit, so, who on earth is privy to such private details about Sarah and why hasn't their access to her been cut-off?

Crazy, I tell ya!

FrostyAK
09/27/2011 18:22

OT, but very important in the whole scheme of things. Most people don't even know about the protests on Wall Street, because the MSM is ignoring it,hiding it.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/275-42/7610-focus-why-i-was-maced-at-the-wall-street-protests

The government power brokers' brutality against the population is not limited to Alaska.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 18:33

kelgal - well, there is always that possibility. MeAgain could be crazy, attention-seeking. The proof - like Palin's candidacy - will be in the pudding. If no posts show up on gryphen's site, we'll know she/he is bluffing.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 18:37

hey! All Thing Considered was just brought to me by "Crown books, publisher of The Rogue!"

Up
09/27/2011 18:37

Excellent question, kel. Particularly when Palin is known for discarding people like used tissues. We shall see.

Cyn
09/27/2011 18:39

IF Trig or ruffles is using Levi last name. The last name is JOHNSTON, there is a T so baby found on the SSA death index listed M JOHNSO doesn't fit.

Sharon_Too_Also
09/27/2011 18:47

@ FrostyAK and all the others here commenting on Dunn's article.

After the hatchet job Maslin did in NYT review, I think Dunn's piece deserves nothing less that OP ED space in the rag. Is that a pipe dream?

Ottoline
09/27/2011 18:52

Terrific book review by Dunn -- Go comment, please! At FDL.

09/27/2011 18:58

I hear you, Brad. I really do. How expedient for Sarah to "get" a Ds baby either way. Sullivan is right, as quoted by Joe: that diagnosis made all the difference in the world in terms of making Sarah an attractive candidate. Without it, she was nothing. Without it, she was even a liability with a newborn.

Sharon_Too_Also
09/27/2011 19:16

OK so I don't see it here yet - so here's MeAgains' latest - the heat is on tonight!

Anonymous said...
All righty. I'm just going to stop attempting jokes.

When I said she was "texting like a teenager in church"...it's because I see kids these days in church looking downward at their damn phones and texting constantly.

Definitely did NOT mean to imply Sarah was anywhere near God's house. Her only interest in "turning the other cheek" is moving her ass away from the TMZ cameras so they don't catch her cellulite again.


Anonymous at 4:46,

April and Bristol...can you two pah-leez get a LIFE? Everyone knows it's you two who are behind these comments. But let's play your pretend game and I'll respond to your claims--Sarah isn't "not worried" about ANYTHING these days. Todd is getting impatient, Sarah's puppetmasters are telling her she MUST produce a Motherly Photo-Op with Trig, a couple of intrepid runners are looking very closely at her participation in the half-marathon, and the new interest in Trig's origin and parentage is making her so nervous, her hair is falling out and she's eating even less--something which is barely possible.

Oh, and can't forget her bitching to Tiemessen about how she JUST KNOWS there's "legal grounds" to shut Gryphen down!

Oh yes, there's nothing to be afraid of...unless you're an out of shape, balding, non college graduate who absolutely cannot under ANY circumstance provide legitimate proof she gave birth in 2008.

Yep, nothing to be afraid of.



-MeAgain

5:34 PM

everspring
09/27/2011 19:29

Kelgal, I was thinking the exact same thing about MeAgain. SP supposedly knows what s/he is up to so what's s/he so freaking worried about? If SP wants to find MeAgain, I'm sure she knows how. So why all the secrecy?

MeAgain - can you explain?

kelgal
09/27/2011 19:30

Thanks Sharon_Too_Also for posting MA's latest.

Fascinating!

To be clear about my previous comment, when I read the posts from MA, my gut tells me she/he is on the level. Every time I read a new tidbit, I just think we're all going to be gobsmacked when/if the identity of the insider is revealed.

NSG
09/27/2011 19:46

Oh, the humanity!!!!

Since I can't stomach C4P, I snoop around Sarah's facebook wall to see what her fans are saying. After an apparent demur on Greta tonight, the mood is pretty dreary.

Here's Steve: "I cannot imagine her not knowing that her own PAC has been sending out pleas for more donations. Too many people are working so hard for her and are sending in their hard earned money. She's got to let us know and the clock is ticking."

(Did she tell Greta she didn't know her PAC was soliciting donations?!)

Hearts are breaking tonight. I *almost* pity the fools.


Conscious at last!
09/27/2011 19:46

@Everspring -- MeAgain has explained that her/his concern are local Palin supporters, not SP herself.

Up
09/27/2011 19:47

Kel, it is requiring all my self-control to stop myself from speculating who is MA, and why she & her buddy are not under Palin's bus!

Ruthie
09/27/2011 19:51

MeAgain explained that she is not afraid of Sarah, she is afraid of the flying monkeys who might come after her if they learn her identity. We should not take that concern lightly. Those people are mentally ill and dangerous. Their little world depends on and revolves around Sarah.
I think her contact is in a position that Sarah cannot afford to toss aside, such as a caregiver to Trig, for example. Think about it...Sarah needs to keep up the story about Trig. If she should dump one of the caregivers, all would be lost if that person spilled the beans. She is pretty much hostage to those caregivers and there almost certainly are others who are privy to the deepest secrets of this horrible family.

Sharon_Too_Also
09/27/2011 19:58

@kelgal - My immediate gut response to MeAgain - from her very first posts - was that she was genuine and I've learned to honor my intuition when I get those feelings. So that's where I'm operating from.

When she first started posting comments it was like she was just blowing off steam - perfectly understandable in her situation. Then she started getting responses - both positive and negative - and people starting talking about her "civic duty" to expose SP. That seemed like an eye opener to her and when she returned from her three weeks in WA state it sounded like she had given it a lot of thought and decided to go ahead and contact Gryphen.

When you read all the posts together you can really see the thought process working it's way out. I believe her when she states that it is the crazy Palin bots that she's most worried about - they really are beyond the pale and are more than likely armed.

Where this will end I really can't say but I sincerely believe in personal courage and she sounds a like a person who has decided to exercise hers.

Sharon_Too_Also
09/27/2011 20:06

@NSG

Oh, the humanity!!!!

Are you sure you didn't mean inhumanity? ;-)

NSG
09/27/2011 20:31

@Shsron, any of it, all of it! =)

I'm watching the Greta intv now.

http://www.therightscoop.com/full-interview-sarah-palin-on-greta-2/

It is inhuman to listen to her for this long. She's making the "I don't need a title" pitch, which I imagine is the hedging her fans were despondent about.

But apparently she doesn't need a title to meet with the Israeli PM to contradict "our government" and tell him what "rill" Americans believe about Israel.

W.T.F?!?!?!?!?!

Treason much? And Greta didn't make a peep.

I do think she looks narc'd. I'm no expert, but even though she's verbally at her usual screech, physically she seems subdued, her eyes weird, glassy.

It really does all seem to be hitting the fan. Weird watching it, eh?

kelgal
09/27/2011 20:33

Ruthie~

I agree that the "insider" is someone who SP cannot afford to cross and who is ever-present.

My curiosity is in regard to why someone as sneakretive (a word one of my kids made up when they were little, probably in regard to a sibling) as Sarah is, would continue to let the blabbermouth observe her most gossip worthy behaviors.

For Pete's sake, she has how many houses with how many rooms, plus her studio and her concrete slab or even a car to sit in for privacy!?! Shit, Joe's former rental is probably empty, she could go hang out on his spy deck to do her dirty work!

I just don't get it. Which is why I'm so intrigued. I can kinda, sorta wrap my head around some of her other hijinks, but this seems at odds with her usual animal cunning.

katie taylor
09/27/2011 20:40

I'm travelling this week and have not been able to keep up with all the comments and Palin related blogs as timely as I usually do. For those that think MeAgain's inside person is in a position that Sarah can't get rid of, I can only say there is no such thing in Palin's world. That explanation I think flies in the face of all we have learned about her over the years. She would throw anybody under the bus and if she thought someone was leaking she would get rid of everyone around her in a fit of pique. I have tried to withhold comment on my feelings about the veracity of MeAgain's posts but I can't muster the strength to do so today. Each additional post makes me more suspicious not less. We are being asked to believe that she/he continues to get almost daily updates on Sarah's actions and reactions to events but unless I missed it there was no advanced knowledge of Sarah's lastest significant move to threaten Joe Mcg's publisher with a lawsuit. Surely that action must have generated some conversation in the Palin camp before it was finalized. Rather we are told by MeAgain that she was texting furiously in reaction to the death record search post made here. The good news I think is that we are getting close to the time where MeAgain will have to deliver or go away. I have seen other situations of promised information on the IM site that supposedly would move the baby hoax case forward only to have them not materialize. I fear this is simply another case of the same.

Ruthie
09/27/2011 20:54

But MA did say yesterday or the day before that Sarah shrieked at the lawyer to do something before she goes nuts, or something similar to that. So the wienie did something. Something really stupid, but he did something.

jeff
09/27/2011 21:22

@katie taylor,

ditto here on anon. What is it that they say in Missouri? Show Me.

Even though the needle on my BS detector has been pegged out off the dial for some time now, I haven't wanted to rain on anyone's parade, so I've withheld my opinion to this point. And of course, I do hope we are both PROVEN wrong, in which case I will gladly admit my error and apologize for my lack of confidence in the source.

It will be interesting to see what is actually revealed in the next several days. I remain almost as optimistic as I am skeptical.


Karen
09/27/2011 21:38

I was on Shailey's blog and thinking that although her name was referenced in the Joe to Gryphen e-mail and in some of the articles about the Breitbart outing, no one has even attempted to talk to her. No one. In some ways I think the internet is the cause of the ruination of the media because "journalists" pick up poorly sourced articles, tweets, Facebook rants and just run with them without validating or confirming an
ything. Another thing that makes me insane is that on the extremely rare occasions that a quote is tracked down for articles about Palin they are never attributed to a person with an actual frickin name! It's always "the Palin Camp" and "a Palin spokesperson." Don't these people have names? What gives?

Laura/Brad, maybe you would be interested in interviewing Shailey one of these days? Here is her latest blog post. http://shaileytripp.yolasite.com/blog/waiting-to-be-proven-wrong-

And I absolutely hope MA is legit. I have to agree that her apparent lightening speed access to alleged goings on at Camp Palin makes me want to speculate on whom it is who could possibly have this kind of access. And I'm still sticking to my "scouts honor" pledge yesterday if she turns out to be a poser. But today I'm still a believer.

Rationalist
09/27/2011 22:05

@Jeff said "I remain almost as optimistic as I am skeptical."

Yes.

@Sharon_Too_Also, my gut tells me she's real, but then I read the comments by skeptics and I really see their point. What are the odds that anyone would be privy to all this stuff, would share it with someone who'd busily posting it online, and not get immediately shut by Sarah? It defies logic.

Time will tell.

But if Me Again is pretend, then he/she is posting both as Me Again and as someone who sounds like Bristol/April Morlock.

"Me Again,

Sarah told me there is no need for panic. She doesn't care about what you have to say. Don't worry your little head, you are the only one stressed out about it. Let it all out, its ok."

search4more
09/27/2011 22:38

I thought MeAgain was claiming to have access to the email chatter. The great doubt I have is that it's pretty easy to cut one person out of an email conversation. It's much harder to cut a person out of your life if they are central to it. ....So I would expect that an insider could have knowledge about how Palin is feeling and the stuff she is doing, but not know what she is writing about. .....Unless Palin has no idea who the insider is. Then it would make more sense.

The other doubt I have is that MeAgain's posts seem to be becoming more and more blog centric.

Despite my doubts I find the whole thing interesting and entertaining. I think it should be pretty easy within a shortish period of time to work out what's going on, both with Palin and MeAgain.

Time keeps moving forward and we are getting to a point where things have to happen. Palin has to do a series of things to run or not run. This will give MeAgain a chance to report on them. She will provide convincing info that backs up her claims or she won't. I await what happens with interest. :-)

kelgal
09/27/2011 22:40

Karen~

I think I remember that both Gryphen and Malia L. interviewed Shailey by phone or email?

Plus, we can't know that she wasn't an anonymous source for any or all of the books that have been published about Palin or the books, blogs, articles,etc. that have yet to be made public.

I too, still believe that MA is a legitimate source of inside info! Fingers crossed that we get some confirmation soon.

Thanks again Laura for providing this forum for discussion of all things rotten in Palinland.

Ginger
09/27/2011 23:00

@MeAgain

I'm not questioning your credibility and you do seem to have inside information. I'm at a loss, though, as to why you are bringing up Ruffles. Your contact should know Sarah borrowed Ruffles to take to the baby shower. Trig was too big to be a preemie and they they wanted pictures of a much smaller baby to prove it. Remember the cover of US Magazine? It came out just after she got the VP nod.

To Sarah's dismay, Chuckie released the picture of Trig taken at Mat-Su on April 18, 2008, the day after I think Bristol gave birth. He also gave them that picture of Sarah in the red shirt looking very, very pregnant with Track. She must have been furious with him because I think she planned to keep Trig out-of-sight until he was much older and people wouldn't notice the difference.

That picture of Mercede holding Ruffles in the Palin's kitchen, was a big distraction over at Palin's Deceptions. Why did Sarah have a cake for Levi and invite the Johnstons over? I've said time-and-again, I'm sure Ruffles is/was the baby of one of Mercede's girlfriends.

Please consider what I'm saying. With your connections, you should be able to check this out. And, by all means, if I'm right, convey the message and maybe it will stop the talk about Ruffles. That would be a big help and narrow down the distractions.

Thanks!

Annon
09/27/2011 23:30

Dont know about MA - if palin knows who MA is, then all they have to do is put it out on her fb page, and her flyin' monkeys will come out in troves!

FrostyAK
09/27/2011 23:59

Who could $P not throw under the bus? Either a very close family member, or a paid caretaker - one who happens to know everything.

She has probably wrung out ALL who are around her. And I expect that now ALL of them are paid, family included. No one would stay in that toxic environment unless they were paid well to do so.

Picolina123
09/28/2011 02:32

Hi All,
Jezebel posted a poorly-researched review of The Rogue, relying heavily on the email leaked to Breitbart. Might consider heading over there to provide a different perspective.
http://jezebel.com/5844166/mcginniss-admits-book-contains-tawdry-gossip-palin-threatens-to-sue

This was my response:

Wow. Such a misleading headline and article. The cited email from McGinniss was from January, it was sent 6 months before he submitted the final version of his manuscript to his publisher in June, and during that interim period he found the substantive proof he needed for the details that he does include in his book, including all but one of the points outlined in that email (Shailey Tripp's story as Todd's prostitute being the only one he could not sufficiently substantiate at the time of submission). From Joe himself on Mediaite: "My reporting continued beyond the date of the email, and only information that checked out to my satisfaction and that of my publisher was included in the book. Ultimately, I published only those allegations which I found to be credible. Other allegations that could not be sufficiently verified, including some of those referenced in my email, are not in my book.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/exclusive-joe-mcginniss-says-andrew-breitbarts-explosive-email-is-really-a-dud/

Huh. Funny how the headline doesn't reflect any of that.

Or how about, as reported on CBS News online site, Crown Publishing released a statement standing by McGinniss' reporting in The Rogue, "Crown Publishers spokesman Stuart Applebaum says the company is confident the reporting in Joe McGinniss' book is 'solid, reliable, and well-substantiated.'"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/27/ap/extras/main20112305.shtml

Nope, you didn't include that, either, Margaret.

Or how about that the NY Times Sunday Book Review states that The Rogue: "draws heavily on interviews with Ms. Palin’s fiercest critics in Alaska, including onetime allies." (notice how that does not say 'draws heavily on gossip'?)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/sunday-review/the-political-provocateur.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Or that Geoffery Dunn in his review of The Rogue on Firedoglake points out that Joe quotes over 6 dozen named sources in his book.
http://my.firedoglake.com/geoffreydunn/2011/09/27/blood-in-the-snow-maslin%E2%80%99s-nyt-review-of-the-rogue-is-intellectually-dishonest/

Or that in commenting on the anonymous sources in The Rogue, the Boston Globe quotes Alex Jones, director of the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University, on the fact that there is a long history of writers using unnamed sources in books about public officials. “Bob Woodward doesn’t name a single source in any of his books,’’ says Jones, referring to the Washington Post associate editor and author who, as a young reporter, broke the Watergate scandal using an anonymous source known as “Deep Throat.’’
http://www.boston.com/yourtown/cambridge/articles/2011/09/27/why_joe_mcginniss_is_under_attack_for_his_sarah_palin_book_the_rogue/?s_campaign=8315

Gosh, Margaret, none of those articles got mentioned here. Hmmm... why might that be? Could it possibly be because they completely derail your characterization of McGinniss' work?

What about the review in Seattle PI, which describes McGinniss using new information (note, not old, rehashed gossip) to push "the story forward in momentum while continuing to link new material with bits of information from past experiences and interviews. He weaves together portraits of public figures that serve as predictors of future behavior. In the case of Sarah Palin, the portrait is one of narcissism disguised as selfless public service, serious multigenerational family dysfunction disguised as family honor and values, and self-deceiving religious conviction as a call to political power."
http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/blogcritics/article/Book-Review-The-Rogue-Searching-for-the-Real-2188176.php#ixzz1ZEPRRPMq

Really, Margaret? The book is 'widely panned based solely on its content'? Seriously, you went with that? Because, no. The email you cite was leaked to Breitbart, someone not known for having journalistic integrity, and is presented completely out of context of the production cycle of The Rogue. See the articles cited above for more accurate reviews of the contents of McGinniss' book.

Or, don't, and further prove McGinnis' point that: "MSM interviewers have only wanted to say I’m reprehensible for putting things in a book about a major political figure that the National Enquirer would find salacious. Then they repeat the “salacious” bits, thereby highlighting them further, and leaving the rest of the book in the shadows."
http://fdlbooksalon.com/2011/09/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-joe-mcginniss/#more-104731

How about going back and actually reading McGinniss' book? And then, report on how The Rogue exa

Picolina123
09/28/2011 02:34

How about going back and actually reading McGinniss' book? And then, report on how The Rogue examines the reasons why Palin came so close to being elected to an office that would have put her a heartbeat away from the presidency, despite, as noted by McGinniss during Firedoglake's online Q&A:
http://fdlbooksalon.com/2011/09/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-joe-mcginniss/#more-104731
1) Sarah’s longstanding religious extremism and desire to turn America into a country whose laws come not from our constitution, but from the Bible.
(Here's a hint, Margaret, look up 'City of Character' and how as mayor, Sarah successfully pushed for Wasilla to be categorized as such. No separation of Church and State in Sarah's political beliefs. But that's not important enough to mention as being covered in The Rogue, right?)
2) Her racism. Sarah knew back in Wasilla High in 1981/82, that Todd and two friends, all seniors, savagely beat a seventh-grade boy simply because he was black, and they didn’t want any blacks in their school. This is the man Sarah married. As governor, she fired people solely because of their skin color, even those who had worked on her gubernatorial campaign.
(But the coverage of her racism in the Rogue is not worth a mention, either, because, well the person revealing it was, gasp!, someone who dared to live next door to her?!?! Could you explain again why exactly it is valid to dismiss a writer's work as unsubstantiated gossip based solely on where he lived? Because, really, accusing someone of being a stalker and implying that he only trades in gossip just reveals your own limitations as a reporter, no?)

Try doing the research, Margaret, before so quickly, and so incorrectly, claiming that McGinniss himself characterized the content of The Rogues' 300 plus pages as 'tawdry gossip'. It's important. Not only would actual research make you appear less like a dutiful transcriber of Palin family press releases, but you might actually be able to inform Jezebel readers of opinions other than the oh-so-reputable Breitbart.

SaltAire
09/28/2011 06:44

Picolina123 @2:32
Standing ovation!
You write so well you must be a professional. If not, consider it as an occupation. You are gifted.

mistah charley, ph.d.
09/28/2011 06:49

Me Again wrote "I see kids these days in church looking downward at their damn phones and texting constantly."

At the church missus charley and i attend there is an announcement at the beginning of each service asking all those present to TURN OFF all electronic devices, including texting.

It would probably be better that the teen NOT ATTEND rather than attending while texting, which implies an attitude of disrespect which is, in the context of a religious service, not merely futile, but counterproductive.


Olivia
09/28/2011 07:28

But annon, MA said that her insider has too much dirt on Palin for Palin to piss off the insider. If Palin identified the insider or MA she would damage herself more.

Jilly
09/28/2011 07:30

Olivia, because Anon is a manipulator and a fraud. This person (and these types of people) get off on being hateful and pissing people off. Like Mediainsider (if they are different people), they rely on generalities that can be strewn together from ignorant blog comments.

There really is nothing more to it.

Jilly
09/28/2011 07:34

"I'm not questioning your credibility and you do seem to have inside information."

This statement concerns me. It can not and has not been proven that Anon is reliable. It has been proven that this person knows how to tell a good fictional story to drum up response from haters on the blogs. There are blatant lies in this person's posts, VERY similar to the lies from Mediainsider. It is not hard at all to write fiction, especially if said writer reads blog comments and commenters ignorant statements.

Jilly
09/28/2011 07:35

"She has probably wrung out ALL who are around her. And I expect that now ALL of them are paid, family included. No one would stay in that toxic environment unless they were paid well to do so."

Toxic environment? You really are ignorant aren't you.

Duncan
09/28/2011 07:45

mista charlie, ph.d. said,

"It would probably be better that the teen NOT ATTEND rather than attending while texting, which implies an attitude of disrespect which is, in the context of a religious service, not merely futile, but counterproductive."

Is it less disrespectful when they fart?

SLQ
09/28/2011 07:52

"It would probably be better that the teen NOT ATTEND rather than attending while texting, which implies an attitude of disrespect which is, in the context of a religious service, not merely futile, but counterproductive."

I would say it would be better if the parents actually parented and told their kids they had to leave their cell phones at home or in the car during church.

Olivia
09/28/2011 07:53

Jilly, thanks for all that. You have pushed me over to the side of the true believers in MeAgain/Anon. Now go away and play with your other precious little troll-y friends.

09/28/2011 07:55

@Jilly

You said it yourself--"It is not hard at all to write fiction."

SLQ
09/28/2011 08:03

The "nothing to see here" troll apparently thinks we can be convinced to not even read what MeAgain posts, as though they will cease to exist. That's rich. Even the doubters will read what she has to say.

Viola-Alex
09/28/2011 08:12

@Laura - Sarah Palin You Betcha is coming to Berkeley! Will you and Clari be attending and writing it up?

Viola-Alex
09/28/2011 08:18

If you all really want to screw with your minds, imagine that MA and Jilly are the same person just drumming up Palin-style chaos and confusion.

Or not. Waiting to see what happens is the only way to see if MA is legit.

In the meantime, a girl can hope and read and enjoy MA's posts. The men have tried their damnedest to bring Palin down, but I still think it may take a woman who will win this battle on a technicality.

Palinoia, come back with Insurance Pt 2!

09/28/2011 08:25

@Viola--Did you read the DFW commencement speech I linked?

JJ
09/28/2011 08:25

V-A,
I too really hope that it's a woman who brings Palin down. And I am still hoping that "Fred" is Audrey!
Also, SP would lose one of her weapons of choice; how could she call another woman a perv or pedophile (yeah, I know they exist, but you know what I mean!)

Olivia
09/28/2011 08:27

Viola-Alex, I have thought the same thing. What a seriously screwed up person that would be. I am willing to wait. I do think that the increasing vitriol of the trolls has some significance.

Lidia17
09/28/2011 08:37

@Olivia: I don't know whether Jilly is a troll or not… but jeff is right—our bullshit meters should be pegged by now. How many weeks has this dragged itself out in obscure comment threads?

Why does this person continue to string us along instead of shutting up for a change and actually passing verifiable material to Gryphen, as she keeps claiming she is going to do, but eternally puts off until: she gets back from a "business trip"; her headache has passed in her hotel room; her wifi is connected; she can arrange a "safe" mail drop; the varnish on her nails is dry… 

PUH-LEASE!

I know it's been fun to speculate, but I just no longer buy there's a single person hanging around so close to the Palins at this point to come up with the vast quantity of "revelations" that this effort requires, who just happens to be passing information at the same time to someone apparently, conveniently, subject to constant travel all over the Northwest.

Besides the fact that any of us could come up with a plausible scenario for what's been going on inside the Palin Camp, frankly I'd be surprised if there IS such a thing as a "Palin Camp" any longer. Track, Bristol and Willow are out of the house; Piper wanders around town with her friends; Trig is outsourced to wherever Trig has been outsourced… Creepy Chuck and Sarah don't hang out; he says "it's nice to have met you again" on SP/AK.

My hunch is that Sarah is basically on her own, and that her main contact in life right now is probably the poor secretary at Clapp, Peterson, Tiemessen, Thorsness and Johnson.

At any rate, I now try to skip over anything that mentions this Anon238, and I find I have a lot more time to read the rest of the blogs and comments. What I did glimpse, though, is that Anon238/MA continues to wring her hands about HER safety (not from Sarah, we are told, but only from the Palinbots).

>>Uhhmmm, okaaayy… but what about the safety of her SOURCE? Has she forgotten all about him/her?<<

Interesting that concern for that person (which was supposedly the whole point of Anon238/MA's coming to Gryphen's blog in the first place: someone "close" was getting "wrung out" by Palin) has seemingly vanished, as has the source him/herself, from Anon238/MA's radar screen.

A Reader
09/28/2011 08:41

I have some news for all of you talking about Me Again and how easy it is to write fiction. People, it's not easy! At least, it's not easy to write good, believable, brilliant fiction, which is what we're seeing here if MA is a fake. I've published over 20 novels and I have to say that if Me Again is not real, then they should take up writing fiction as a career because they are an absolute genius when it comes to makin' stuff up. I would have to sit for days to come up with these tidbits, and I spend my life spinning stories.

I'm not saying I believe everything MA is saying, however, because I think she/he is throwing up a few smoke screens to disguise their identity--and I don't blame them for that at all.

I took and printed out MA's posts. They are long. We're talking enough pages to make up a novella. Why? She's not asking for money or fame. Why not take that time and talent and turn it to something productive? Her posts are hidden on a very old MI thread. Have all those people doubting her asks themselves, Why? The only people reading them are a very, very few of us here and Sarah herself. Why put all that time and work into making this stuff up and then bury it in an old post? This woman is out to bleed Sarah and mess with her head, and she's doing a very, very good job.

All of which is a round about way of saying, I totally believe the inside gossip she is giving us even if I don't quite believe the details about who she is. But in deference to her wishes, I am not going to speculate on her identity.

I think one of the problems she has in giving us "proof" of Sarah's lies and misdeeds is that 1) the inside person she cares about did not come on the scene until after Trig's birth and 2) she wants to be sure that when she provides emails she doesn't inadvertently expose the person she cares about to the Palin/Heath/Bot intimidation squad.

Of course, you only have MY word for it that I am a novelist! That's the problem with the Internet--and it's blessing.

Viola-Alex
09/28/2011 08:46

@Tom - I did read it. It doesn't resonate for me as it does you. Sadly, for me it sounds like a tired, desperate and somewhat mad man. When I tried to read DFW before his suicide, his prose struck me the same way.

BUT the important thing is that you have literary heroes. I have mine, and their voices and art keep me sane.

I do agree with DFW's dismissal of the all-important "I." The address starts off beautifully. I fear we are of the generation who still remembers the power of community and the beauty of working toward a common good. This is what I feel from the Palin watchdog blogs. Thousands of people working together anonymously to conquer a giant evil perpetrated on this dear country.

WE stopped the Vietnam War. Then we let Reagan make us rich. We let Bush noodle along while his handlers raped and pillaged and maimed. This is the least we can do. Stop Palin. And make sure this doesn't happen again.

Dangerous
09/28/2011 08:48

Laura & Brad,

There are a couple of issues I think you have to consider:

First, on the DS-infant-as-political-motive disagreement, please recall that Sarah announced the DS aspect of Trig back in April of 2008, long before she was widely considered as a VP candidate. So she didn't suddenly swap Ruffles for a DS baby as some sort of political advantage in the veepstakes.

There is no way she could know or even suspect at that time that having a DS infant versus a normal one would make her more attractive as a running mate. We also can't say that it did or didn't. You're only speculating that it might have (in as "she walked the walk"). But that is all supposition on supposition. At most one can say it might have helped a little. One could argue that it might have hurt her chances.

Nonetheless, it's clear to me that a much more important factor was that she was attractive -- at least on the outside -- and that would garner favorable attention in the media to reverse Obama's convention momentum. That worked.

Therefore, I conclude -- quite reasonably, I think -- that the Ruffles/Trig swap had nothing to do with wanting a DS infant in place of a "normal" one. Since the evidence of a swap is so strong (you can't deny the photos) I think Up's assertion that Ruffles was used as a newborn stand-in for Trig, who would not present as a newborn, is correct. This implies that Trig was born earlier, perhaps much earlier, but there could be other explanations as well.

Second, I want to go back to the museum photo to Gusty photo timeline. We actually have some pretty good shots of Palin five days earlier from the Frank Elan video, shot on April 8. While Palin's midsection is hidden by a scarf in much of it, when she thumps her belly at around the 4:30 mark, it's clearly much larger than the museum exit photo. That means it wasn't 18 days between pcitures, it's only 13 days from nearly flat to clearly bulbous.

I think this is important because on the version of the video I just watched on YouTube, Greta Van Sustern for FOX NEWS talks about the film being shot "just days before she gave birth to her son Trig". That's 10 days, to be exact, accordingly to the official Palin timeline.

So now deniers have to argue that she went from flat to round in 13 days and round to delivery in 10 days. That's a one in a billion pregnancy.

A Reader
09/28/2011 08:51

I will add that I find it possible that the person Me Again "cares" about is actually Trig. The two people she seems to hate the most are Bristol and Sarah; she thinks Todd is an obnoxious ass but cuts him some slack because he cares for Trig.

I also find it interesting she keeps coming back to Sarah's lack of a college degree. This really should not be that difficult for SOMEONE to find out about--much easier than getting the truth about Trig.

09/28/2011 08:53

@Lidia17--

A three week late summer vacation to WA state is not constant travel all the Northwest. Nor is going to ANC for meetings (though I wonder why she'd need a hotel as Wasilla is an easy 40 min. drive away).

I'll hold out for a bit more regarding MA. I really wish that someone would come forward with proof that SP didn't run that half-marathon. That could put a real Trig investigation into motion.

Viola-Alex
09/28/2011 08:55


Either you want Palin brought down by any means that works. Or you want Palin brought down as you deem appropriate.



There are only two choices.

09/28/2011 08:56

Don't feed the Troll!!

New post going up. Thank you everyone for a fabulous discussion.

Viola-Alex
09/28/2011 09:00

"Please recall that Sarah announced the DS aspect of Trig back in April of 2008, long before she was widely considered as a VP candidate."

Prove this statement. Many have written and substantiated that SP considered herself and was being considered by others for national office as far back as her mayor days.

anonfornow
09/28/2011 09:04

Dangerous, I so agree with you on this! I'm not sure Sarah was clever enough to realize the extent to which having a DS baby would make her attractive. Her basic appeal has always been her pretty face and her fundie connections, and I think her rise would have been meteoric even without Trig. The walk-the-walk appeal of the DS baby could easily be something she just fell into.

I don't think the Palins planned to release the photo of the Heaths and "newborn" Trig to the press. That was probably Chuckles grabbing more money for licensing pictures to the press (one of the things we learned from MA is that Chuck has done this behind Sarah's back before). Remember the email where someone is looking for photos of newborn Trig and Todd sends that person to Chuck? What father doesn't have pictures of his own son? Apart from which, I think SALLY is the photographer in that family, judging by the pictures we've seen of Sarah and her kids growing up.

We've heard that some people seeing Chuck's picture of "newborn Trig" called BS on that being a preemie. So it is totally believable that when it came time to showing the baby off at the baby shower, Sarah borrowed someone else's delicate newborn. The reason for the Triggybear photos in the kitchen is more puzzling. To fool Sadie and Sherry? Surely if Levi was also ignorant, he would have noticed that the baby was suddenly much smaller? Or were they just relying on the fact that he was a not-to-bright teenaged boy?

myrna nichols
09/28/2011 09:09

@Dangerous I respectfully disagree with your impression that Sarah had no idea that a DS baby would increase her credentials with the people who ultimately chose her as the VP nominee.

There was that Conservative Cruise to Alaska which included Bill Kristol. They were smitten with Palin, and according to a New Yorker article, they are among the people responsible for promoting Palin as the VP nominee.

Sarah had a meeting with McCain early in 2008. She was not an active, hands on governor, but she was a very active politician, working that Blackberry, constantly checking in with people of influence in national politics.

Sarah wasn't picked out of the clear blue sky. She worked very hard to get that nomination. At some point, she must have realized that having a DS child would enhance her "Right to Life" credentials among the Religious Right. She could claim to both talk the talk and walk the walk.

When faced with a pregnant, unwed teen daughter and a premature DS baby, Sarah would be easily influenced by the Conservative Radio talk show host who had already adopted a DS child and was getting attention for it. While Sarah is normally emotional and reactive, shooting first and thinking about it later, I think that she really worked every angle when they discovered that the premature baby had DS, was going to survive, and had little chance of being adopted. I am willing to bet that there are emails in Palin's private Blackberry that ask different people how she would be perceived if she were to become "pregnant and deliver a DS child."

Ottoline
09/28/2011 10:55

myrna nichols: I agree with your points. They bring up the huge missing piece, which we may never know. Someone or several someones guided SP, mentored her, discussed the long-term strategy with her, or simply sounded her out at some early stage. Served as her guide, strategist, sounding board. In strict confidence. Esp at first, pre-pick and pre-election.

Her Mar 6 announcement-of-pregnancy date, coming as it doid right after McCain's being picked, suggests a plan that was put into motion based on McCain's pick. Surely SP had some behind-the-scenes discussions before or after those Alaska cruises by the pundits/pundents. There's the early 2008 brief talk with McCain, which is also unlikely to have occurred in isolation: surely talks with others preceded/followed this.

Whether SP cooked up the hoax to cover a difficult family secret, or mainly for political advantage, or some of both: WHO CARES? The biggest point is she hoaxed us. For whatever motive. And she aggressively shoved that hoax onto the national political scene.

If she had hoaxed us and kept her family and esp Trig in the background as a normal person -- even so odd a normal person as a political candidate -- then no one would have questioned it, even if it seemed to be a hoax. It would have remained a private family matter.

But it was SP who lion-kinged poor little Trig, hauled him around to all kinds of environments not suitable for any baby (noise, smoke, lights, irregular hours, and not least the dirty parking lot littered with cig stubs and broken glass that McGinniss's book cites Trig as inattentively placed upon). She made him the public entity and symbol that he became. But symbol of what, in the end? Yes, her own corrupt, degenerate values.

Katie Taylor
09/28/2011 11:45

Lidia, your points are excellent. I also agree that a serious whistleblower would refrain from the daily release of gossip that most often did little or nothing to advance her bigger cause. Given her purported concerns for her safety if she were identified I think she accepted gryphs statement that he had not been hacked too easily. Either he was or he is the source of the leak of joes email ..... either scenario would be troubling. The other possible source of the leak is Joe
himself but that is much less likely.

FrostyAK
09/28/2011 12:16

A few people seem to be under the false impression that $P was ever really in charge of her political career. It is painfully obvious that would have been impossible. The only thing she has contributed is the mean teen girl part.

She was a dominionist, or dominionist-in-training since her early teens. Her psychopathology probably was not as pronounced back then as it is today. There is much on the net about the training these dominionists are put through. Look it up. Start with prayer warriors and Mary Glazier.

The dominionists (and AIP to some extent) have been behind ALL of $P's political career. Do you really think that coordinating a pregnancy hoax and acquiring a stand-in for a suddenly too large TriG would be beyond their capabilities? The only reason any of it came to light is the incompetence of $P to properly play the role she was trained for.

We ignore the dominionist elephant in the room at our own and the country's peril.

jeff
09/28/2011 13:17

Picolina123,

Kudos on calling out that "reviewer" of The Rogue on Jezebel! Your writing was brilliant.

You actually did the work that the "reviewer" was responsible for. If that writer has one ounce of professionalism as a writer, she will be ashamed.

In my opinion, writing something like she did that is based on conjecture and disinformation should be considered as shameful as plagiarism. Her article adds no value to the reader, and actually harms the author's work in the process.

On the bright side, you have given her some serious lessons in journalistic integrity AND professional writing, something J-School didn't get through to her.

I hope you will hang around Laura's blog and join the conversations. Laura's attracted some very intelligent folks here, and some great writers, also, too.

Venefica
09/28/2011 20:22

@Picolina123: Bravo!

09/29/2011 03:47

The only thing that will motivate the hospital to reveal the truth is money - that is,the threat of the financial implications of committing some kind of fraud. Who has the power to make an official inquiry that could result in conviction for insurance fraud or something of that nature? What would make a hospital lose its insurance? They won't cooperate unless the consequences of protecting Palin will put them out of business. Ditto that shady doctor.

Original Lee
09/29/2011 08:27

A neighbor is an insurance company attorney. His main job is insurance fraud. So I posed him a couple of hypotheticals in terms of who could sue the hospital or expect to get answers from them by having a believable threat.

Basically, there are no citizen suit provisions for HIPAA or insurance fraud. This means no random citizen can point to what they think is a pattern of illicit or illegal behavior and get anywhere. There are no "handles" built into the statutes, so to speak, for the Average Joe or Jane. The one exception to his statement is if you have reason to believe personal health information has been unlawfully disclosed - it doesn't have to be yours. But even then, you can only report it to JCHAO or to HHS, you can't file FOIA with it.

There are class action provisions. The person filing has to posit a class that has an actionable claim. So someone who actually uses the hospital has to be able to prove a pattern of harmful behavior against a group of people in similar circumstances.

There are whistleblower provisions. Someone who can substantiate claims of fraudulent behavior can bring a qui tam suit. Almost always this person works for the wrongdoer or who is a customer - it's almost impossible to be a whistleblower through casual contact.

Keep in mind this is the response of an insurance fraud attorney, but I think it makes sense as to why the Wild Ride seems to be so bulletproof at the hospital end.

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