H/T to reader Tom for providing two links worth reading and discussing. First, this ESPN post with video (and 2,200 comments no less, which are as illuminating as the blog post itself) on Sandusky's childhood and how people who have known him on a personal level through the years were blindsided by these allegations. 

Further down in the article is mention of a phrase I'd not heard before. "Socially adept preferential child molesters." Yikes. So how does someone who "likes to be with children" turn into a predator who harms them? And must we have a nice name for everything? How about "sick mo fo?"  (that is for those whom the charges have been proven.)

Along those lines, I recall meeting a woman at a dinner party many years ago who worked as a psychologist counseling prisoners. Her clientele were all sexual predators. She told us that she explained to the men that they were not bad people, but that their actions were bad. I'm going to mull over those words of hers again. I'm not sure I like them.

We also have THIS link to an interesting blog post. It ties in with what I heard on NPR this morning about New York state's legislature now pondering a bill that would require coaches to become "mandated reporters."  Do we really need a law to tell coaches that they need to report suspected child abuse? Really? 

I'm still scratching my head about that missing DA. I need to find more on that to read. But between the current AG and the former AG-turned-governor, there is so much to absorb about the Keystone State.
 


Comments

mistah charley, ph.d.
11/14/2011 10:01

Laura, you wrote, "Her clientele were all sexual predators. She told us that she explained to the men that they were not bad people, but that their actions were bad."

From the movie The Zero Effect - the Ben Stiller character is speaking to the Bill Pullman character:

Steve Arlo: "There aren't any GOOD guys. You realize that, don't you? I mean: there aren't EVIL guys, and INNOCENT guys. It's just - it's just... It's just a bunch of guys. "

This is not a claim that there are no good or bad actions - just that the same person might do a good thing, and then later a bad thing. No one is so bright they do not have one speck of darkness, or so dark that they do not have one spark of light.

eclecticsandra
11/14/2011 10:14

Reading about the Franklin cover-up makes it easier to understand what happened with the District Attorney. If he had prosecuted, he probably would have stopped his career immediately. I wonder if he wasn't still pursuing a means of finding some way to expose the situation. The woman he saw the day he disappeared may have been a distraught mother. Because she was upset he allowed her to smoke in the car.

11/14/2011 10:16

Well, a law might make it easier for a coach to make the report. He could argue, see, I have to do this - it's in the regulations. Doing what's right isn't easy when you're being pressured by the powerful - especially when the powerful may be doing good things in another walk of life.

However, I agree that there is a tendency (on both sides of the aisle) to over-regulate. Although I'm not enamored of plastic bottles and certainly not happy with the bottled water/soda industry, I was happy that the effort to ban plastic bottles from national parks failed. Yes, they're a problem in parks - but plastic bottles are useful to many while hiking and we should simply fine people for littering. (I also thought it was odd to think that guns could be allowed while plastic bottles were made illegal.)

Laura Novak
11/14/2011 13:07

This just in from HuffPo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/14/penn-state-scandal-judge-sandusky-volunteer-second-mile_n_1091461.html


Does anyone recuse themselves these days?

11/14/2011 13:45

I actually think it is very important to have a law that requires anyone who suspects a child of physical or sexual abuse or neglect to report it. We have such a law in Quebec. It makes it much easier to get things reported to youth protection. Even if a professional has confidential information they are obliged to report what they know. I have had to make reports based on things I was told by students or even that they might have written in their journals. There was no choice.

Ivyfree
11/14/2011 14:23

Ottoline
11/14/2011 14:24

HuffPo has bits of an interview with Sandusky from 1987. I didn't realize that Sandusky is pleading innocent to the 40 counts.

http://tinyurl.com/7fvglv7

Re the judge who set his bail (and who is a Second Mile volunteer -- see Laura's link), she set it at $100K rather than the $500k plus ankle bracelet that was requested. (I guess I'm in the minority, who thinks $100k is not enough to offset flight risk.)

Ivyfree
11/14/2011 14:29

Sorry about blank post above- not sure what I hit to do that!

I was going to say, I am pretty comfortable that being a sexual predator actually does mean they're a bad person.

Re: mandatory reporting: You're right in that anyone who sees a child being molested or abused SHOULD report it- but it's awfully easy to do nothing and persuade yourself that what you saw or suspect can't be true. We have partial mandatory reporting in our state: educators and healcare workers, police and firefighters- don't know who else, but these groups I'm sure of- must report any suspicion of child abuse. Our school district sends out a notice at the beginning of the year reminding parents that there is mandatory reporting and being reported is not the same as an accusation, that legally the only people who can make an accusation is Child Protection Services- but that educators will file reports as required by law. It puts families on notice that their kids might complain about them. And it takes the responsibility for making the decision away from people and puts it in the hands of professionals. It protects the reporters when they can say, "If we don't, we might be prosecuted."

Viola-Alex
11/14/2011 15:07

This is an issue I've dealt with for my entire 60 years. My socially prominent and popular father was a pedophile. He raped my sister, brother, me ( and lord knows who else) beginning when we were infants. He died before I was able to confront him (as treatment for abuse urges you to do) but I did confront my father's best friend, who had also abused my siblings and me. Sam denied his involvement. He also would not admit that my father was a perpetrator, but he did tell me that my father had been sexually abused by his Sunday School teacher and by my grandfather.

All who abuse were abused. Nevertheless, there must be accountability. Children must be protected.

There is a problem with expecting witnesses to report abuse. Too many people who witness it have never dealt with their own difficult childhoods and may disassociate -- or diminish what they witness. My mother witnessed the abuse at least once, and shut the door. Perhaps Paterno and others fall into this camp.

My fear is that the trial will turn its vengance on the victims and smear them. This is often what happens. . . the children become the "lolitas" who invited or accepted the abuse. Or who SHOULD have told.

Finally, Sandusky's behavior was not "inappropriate"-- it was rape and sexual terrorism.

Sorry to get so heated. This is one issue I know too well. The ten years I spent in therapy was the hardest work I've ever done.

Laura Novak
11/14/2011 17:55

Tom, you got thrown into moderation. Don't know why. It's random. I've posted your latest comment now.

GrannyJ, I totally agree with you about mandating reporting. I only wish it were mandatory for everyone, not just a select group of professionals. That leaves it as a moral decision for the rest of the nation.

And Viola-Alex, I am so very sorry to read this about your life. I know you've written before about the abuse in your family, but each time it pains me, as I'm sure it does you to even write the words.

Your hard work can add clarity to this discussion as we move forward, if you're willing to keep up the good fight with and for us. Thank you again for sharing.

TF
11/14/2011 19:47

Laura, I like to thank you (and Tom) for the link to the Jon Richie interview on ESPN.

Like Viola-Alex, my father was a pedophile who abused me over a period of years. It is always difficult for me whenever one of these stories break; - I feel horrified for the children who were raped and abused and can't help but relive the feelings of powerlessness and rage I experienced as a child.

This time, however, I find myself thinking of Mike McCreary and his initial reaction to seeing Sandusky raping a 10-year old child. Many have savaged McCreary for not having stopped the rape. (Jon Stewart and Andrew Sullivan among others.) I heard Leslie Marshall say she thought McCreary should kill himself for not stopping it. And while I share the general outrage that that child was left to suffer, I can't help but think that MCCreary's behavior (maybe even paralysis?) is not that uncommon.

I have often thought that as relatively common as child sexual abuse seems to be, the real taboo is not the perpetration, but the acknowledgment that it is done by people we know and sometimes admire (for other reasons, obviously).

I think Jon Richie's comments help to put McCreary's initial conduct into perspective - not excuse it, but explain it, especially regarding the fact that the abuser was someone he knew and had tremendous admiration. And I think it's necessary that we try to explain it, because most children aren't abused by strangers, but by a trusted friend or relative or authority figure.

Ottoline
11/14/2011 19:53

Viola-Alex: I too want to send a sincere thank you to you for daring to talk about it. I almost don't dare ask questions about it, so that gives me a tiny taste of how it must be to have to live with it. I send you my wish for all good things, V-A.

What you say makes me think my comment on the other thread was not that far off: that pedophiles have an elaborate denial/justification mantra going, that in its simpler terms is like what we used to hear re rape of women: they asked for it, they secretly like it, I had to meet my needs, it's not that big a deal. And I'm still believing Alice Miller that there are more of them than we think. Which helps explain to me why lancing this boil seems to be so hard for institutions. And the only way the pimping rumor could be entertained even for a moment.

My thinking re restitution has been along the lines of full scholarship plus stipend for expenses for all who were in Second Mile during that time period. (Because I am betting that the children who heard about it, who knew about it, must have been seriously affected by it too and thus victims as well.) Plus an unlimited charge card for therapy in a way that preserves the privacy of whoever feels like taking advantage of it.

So I wonder: do you think that would be enough? Is there more that can be done?

Ottoline
11/14/2011 20:06

TF: Thank you to you too for talking to us. Words fail me in trying to convey my sympathy to you and V-A for so much needless pain.

I have no real problem with McCreary -- I am assuming he did the best he could. As any of us imperfect people might have done. He is not the perp, he got caught in the gears. I don't feel interested in judging, because plenty of others, boots on the ground, will be doing that, for better or worse. I just want it all out in terms of the administration of Penn and for help to happen to the kids. The expensive, long-term help they need, not some bargain-basement settlement to keep quiet.

The thing I esp like about my restitution proposal is that no one else has to declare himself a victim--all get the help, because all were damaged to some degree, and the degree to which they were is to be addressed in private, with their therapists. Or not, as they please. But at least lack of resources won't keep them from getting help.

By no means full restitution, and the hard work for each child is still there, but better than the current big zero in terms of help.

11/14/2011 20:29

Posted this on the earlier thread.

Apparently Mike McQueary reached out to his teammates from his playing days and sent this message.

@PeterAlexander: McQueary email to fmr. teammates: "I did the right thing…you guys know me...the truth is not out there fully... I didn't just turn and run... I made sure it stopped...I had to make quick, tough decisions."

Viola and TF--so sorry.

And Viola, just finished 'A Troubled Man', the Henning Mankell novel. I liked it very much. Yesterday I met an Army Staff Sergeant who's parents are Swedish and Icelandic. He's first generation. Anyway, I recommended Mankell and Per Petterson ('Out Stealing Horses'--very good by the way). This was after we went back and forth about Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler's 'War is a Racket'; Dick Cheney the five time draft dodger; Eisenhower's farewell address (beware of the military/industrial complex); that the Gulf War was a maneuver not a war and more. He's a tank commander. I told him I could watch the movie 'Kelly's Heroes' once a month for the rest of my life. 'Course he's seen it. Funny movie. Almost perfect.



Celia Harrison
11/14/2011 20:54

I have worked with sex offenders of all types, except the group I worked with were all psychopaths. Psychopaths have different preferences about their predatory activities, rape, murder, cons, running corporations, but their actions are always about getting something they want or enjoying running their cons. There are different kinds of sex offenders, a young kid who makes an immature impulsive choice is not the same as a psychopathic predator. It is a myth that sex offenders can't be helped. But, Psychopaths have no conscience nor do they have normal emotions whatever their predatory behavior, they are not capable of understanding the harm they do. This is why it is so important to report them and stop them from harming people. It seems this man may well be a psychopath due to having set up a non-profit for access and the number his victims. What is so difficult to believe is the number of people who knew and covered up the story for many reasons, some of which may not have even come out yet. I don't know why this still shocks me after having seen police cover crimes, etc. but it does. If the rumor that high level donors were given access to boys for donations and higher ups knew, there may be more than one psychopath involved. They are attracted to each other and some work in pairs. There is often a thinker type working with one who does the dirty work for the thinker. I worked in health care in a state that has mandatory reporting and a system within which to do it. Lack of reporting could result in a fine and/or jail term. I loved it because if people tried to talk me out of reporting something I could say I was mandated to so it was not my decision if it is reported or not, I simply reported and someone else sorted the facts out. With this system came education about signs of abuse and behaviors of abusers, sexual predators and the children who are abused.

Confused
11/14/2011 21:06

McQueary's emails to his friends don't make sense. In them he's pretty much saying that he DID do something in that moment (possibly to end the kid being attacked in the shower or whatever.)

But his own grand jury testimony contradicts this, I believe. In that, he waited to talk to his dad that night and asked him what to do and then talked to Joe Paterno the next day, I believe. The grand jury report doesn't talk about him intervening, does it? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't had the stomach to read the grand jury report myself yet!)

Some people have been wondering if McQueary was actually a major "whistleblower" in this case who will be immune from prosecution because he's quietly, secretly helping investigators. If that's true, maybe he DID do something to help that boy and certain parts of what actually happened are not yet being revealed to the public before trial.

Another thought I had is that McQueary may have been an earlier victim of some sort of abuse himself and/or just been justifiably in shock in those moments and had poor reactions or even no reaction as fight or flight kicked in.

Still, from the outside, it sure seems hard to me to be sympathetic with what it appears McQueary DIDN'T do.....it all goes back to what if that had been HIS son? Wouldn't he have beaten the brains out of Sandusky and/or gone immediately to the emergency room with the kid to have a rape kit done and reported the attack to police while there was still physical evidence so the bastard could be arrested immediately?

So many things don't seem to add up here.

Viola-Alex
11/14/2011 21:37

Besides surviving abuse by my father, I grew up in Texas where football was God. My brother broke his neck playing high school football, and he suffered almost as much abuse from his high school football coach as he did from our father. In football, one never questions the coach. never. how luck McCreary is that he had the kind of dad he could go to about something so disturbing. I don't fault him at all for how he dealt with the matter. if he hadn't involved his father, there would have been no witness to his efforts to blow the whistle.

Hey, Tom! I loved STEALING HORSES and I love Mankell. I'll find the book you recommend.

and hey, TF. Life is a miracle, isn't it? Just surviving is something, although most days I feel like I am handicapped for life. Let's hope the boys who were hurt know how badly they were hurt. Otherwise, it's all suppressed into something even worse.

and sadly, as my sister said, Thank God, they're little boys. Otherwise it wouldn't be news.

11/14/2011 21:48

@Confused-- The Grand Jury finding of facts is a 22 page summary written by the Attorney General's (prosecutor)office. Tons of info wasn't included. Whether or not McQueary intervened may be in his testimony but not included in the summary. The sole purpose of the summary is for the AG to make their case.

PA Gov. Corbett has lambasted McQueary for what is generally described as his inaction. Well, since the case was brought to Corbett when he was Attorney General and he assigned one person to it (I read that so it must be true), maybe we cab make the case that he, Gov. Corbett, is responsible for his inaction as well. I hope so much that the leak of the Grand Jury summary came from Corbett's office. He's a bastard owned by the frackers.

There's a lot going on here, Confused, and if you didn't read ther links I posted at Laura's first thread on Penn State, maybe you should.

Most PSU people, the largest percentage, understand that something terribly wrong happened. That the wrong was not addressed with alacrity, instead with reluctance. But they are also generally very very pissed at the way the media has handled this, especially ESPN. Seems that ESPN has taken on the Fox News mantra of distortion and fabrication is money.

11/14/2011 22:07

@Viola--Try another Swede mystery writer named Hakan Nesser. His guy is Deputy Chief Inspector Van Veeteren. I like Mankell more but Nesser is good too. Mankell's Kurt Wallander is about my age so I get a kick out of his inner dialogue (existential angst at 3 AM or whenever without a distraction--me to a tee).

11/15/2011 04:55

Way back in the 1970s, I took a psychology course in which the professor said that abuse of children was much, much more prevalent than people knew. Obviously he was right. My thanks to the survivors among us for sharing their perspectives.

McQueary claims now, in emails to his former teammates, to have made sure the shower rape stopped. The grand jury report is silent on this point. Some members of the public - a majority? - are skeptical of what McQueary is saying now, just as most people are skeptical of Sandusky's denial of pedophilia - he just enjoys kids, likes "horsing around" - that's all that happened - these multiple reports of more show how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be.

If we want the truth, maybe we should follow the advice of some of the Republican candidates and use "enhanced interrogation methods" like waterboarding - on Sandusky, McQueary, McQueary's father, the alleged victims, Joe Pa, Mrs. Sandusky ... [this suggestion is sarcasm, of course]

As Bob Dylan sang, "People disagreein' ev'rywhere you look, makes you wanna stop and read a book." For example,

From Walt Whitman's "Song of Myself":


I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and
self-contain'd,
I stand and look at them long and long.

They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of
owning things,
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of
years ago,
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.

http://www.daypoems.net/poems/1900.html#top

jeff
11/15/2011 07:07

Bob Costas' Phone Interview with Jerry Sandusky:

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20
11/11/14/8804779-jerry-sandusky-to-bob-
costas-in-exclusive-rock-center-
interview-i-shouldnt-have-showered-with-
those-kids

Transcript: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colleg
e/jerry-sandusky-ex-coach-penn-state-
breaks-silence-article-1.977677


Also, in an unrelated situation...
Looks like The Citadel felt they had enough cover from the Penn State story to release their own child sex abuse scandal.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/15/the-
citadel-releases-documents-on-child-sex-
abuse-allegations/


11/15/2011 08:29

Above I wrote about PA Gov, Corbett and his gross criticism of the witness, Nike McQueary, even though he knew of the charges when he was Attorney General and did noting but assign ONE person to the investigation. Well, the Philadelphia Inquirer has a story addressing that. Here:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/133861288.html

Also the NYTimes has an op-ed piece on self-deception, how we think we'd react but in fact do not. Boy this is so damn true about all the blowhards who condemned McQueary when it turns out, according to his email, that he did stop the contact. And you know, before anyone criticizes McQueary further, remember that he's the one who came forward, contacted the Attorney General, even though the victim has not come forward and is unknown.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/opinion/brooks-lets-all-feel-superior.html?_r=2&emc=tnt&tntemail0=y

Laura Novak
11/15/2011 08:50

Thank you all for these great links. I saw David Brooks speak the other night and I am going to write a post about that soon. But this column is in keeping with what he spoke about: our inner specialness and where our society is in terms of relating to one another.

TF and V-A, thank you again for sharing your personal experiences here, to the extent that you did. There is more there, I know. And words fail me as well in saying how deeply sorry I am that anyone, let alone people we "know" here, suffered at the hands of a close relative (or anyone.)

What is it they say? Damaged people damage people. But they don't have to forever. And they need to be held accountable.

What will cause the finger pointing in all of this is a CYA mentality rather than what is best for those boys. And that is just so wrong.

Please keep talking on this post. I'll put something else up later but will be busy most of the day. Thank you all for a great discussion.

Yes, the Citadel indeed. What is the matter with these people?

Ottoline
11/15/2011 09:05

I'd be interested in some discussion about the denial aspect, on the part of the perp, the wife, and associates (like your father's best friend, V-A [who was also a perp]). I don't understand how that can work, and when/how does the denial stop?

Ottoline
11/15/2011 09:44

Regarding the thought that one can be a hero under duress:

I was cleaning out my garage long ago with my son, who was just starting to express big thoughts. He came upon an old Nat'l Geographic magazine with the famous photo of the streetsweeper brooming over the statue of a toppled Stalin. He toddled over to ask me "what's this!?!"

And I explained. He responded by saying "if I had been there, I would have KICKED Stalin in the popo! (our name for derriere)." And I was reminded of me as a teenager, listening to my elders tell me about the Stalin/Nazi times, and my response, too, was that I would have done something more/better/faster than the people who lived through it. Soon I came to see this as an adolescent fantasy, perhaps necessary to help us develop a sense of acting to right wrongs, but very naive. The people who lived through those times did the best they could, unquestionably. Some did better than others. Most did better than I could have done, I am positive.

I'm surprised no one has used the term "Monday morning quarterbacking" re McCrearey. The folks who tried and are trying to right this situation are heroes. The fact that they couldn't be heroes faster/better is a societal problem, for which they -- not society -- will take the rap, as Joe P and McCrearey have already done and are in the process of doing. Society -- that would be us -- will not have to take much of a rap. Esp those of us who can bask in the certain knowledge that we would have handled everything so much better.

Viola-Alex
11/15/2011 10:20

Ottoline: The denial continues until a perp/victim does the hard work of recovery. Sandusky doesn't have the means to admit his guilt because he's never dealt with his own abuse. There was an interesting program in a prison in NH many years ago where perps were subjected to role play therapy. They were put alone in a room and actor/therapists entered and played the parts of uncles-dads-older men- moms whichever abuser it was, based on the inmate's history. It was so upsetting to the inmates that they got the program stopped because it was "cruel and unusual punishment." They simply weren't brave enough to heal.

The therapy my sister and I worked through took 10 years and involved re-experiencing what had been done to us. It was almost worse than dying.

But we are alive today. We are not addicts or prostitutes. We are not abusers, and if the day comes when my children must tell me that they too were abused because of my neglect when they were young, then I'll be ready and strong. More days than not, I don't want to die.

I believe I stopped a cycle that had raged in both sides of my parents' families.

But the shame and guilt is so terrific, few victims ever find this kind of peace. In my experience, few therapists know how to help. It took ten therapists before I found the one who saved me.

I do not expect the Penn State crisis to be resolved neatly.

My dear Otto-- thank you for asking this great question. It means a lot to me when people dare to look into this issue and not turn away.

And if you want to know how childhood abuse affects an adult's life, here's a video of an older Irishman speaking of the Catholic priests who raped him. It's one of the bravest things I've ever seen but not for everyone.

http://videosift.com/video/Man-who-was-sexually-abused-by-catholic-priests-speaks-out




comeonpeople
11/15/2011 11:09

I naively thought coaches were mandated reporters...I looked at the position as the same as a teacher. As a pediatric nurse I am a mandated reporter and wrongly assumed anyone who works with kids in any capacity is mandated as well.

curiouser
11/15/2011 11:28

Viola and TF - I don't have words to express the sorrow and horror I feel for the terror and pain inflicted on you. I'm in awe of the work you've done to be able to add your insight to this discussion and, most importantly, to stop the cycle of abuse.

I read a comment somewhere that struck a chord: we need to be horrified by McQueary's reaction and also realize that any of us may have done the same. Police and child services should have been immediately involved, Sandusky taken into custody, evidence secured, and support provided for the boy.

I, too, wonder about denial. Viola, Can you speak to your mother's role and whether she supported your recovery? That she was unable or unwilling to stop the abuse makes it so much worse.

FrostyAK
11/15/2011 11:42

We must remember that all abuse is about power and often about rage - physical, sexual, emotional, and mental. All types of abuse seem to continue through families.

When are we going to stop making excuses for abusers by claiming that they themselves were abused? Where is personal responsibility and courage in such excuses?

I was abused, physically, mentally, and emotionally by my father (I think I escaped the sexual abuse). He was abused similarly by his mother, and as a consequence hated women. I was the female he could bully and who would have no voice in stopping him. I took the brunt of his rages from a very young age. My mother was not strong enough to stop him, as he abused her emotionally and mentally, though she claims not physically. My brother was not abused, but instead neglected by his father.

That particular family of abuse stopped at his generation, as neither of his children chose to procreate. Both went on to lead fairly productive lives, though both still carry his scars.

IMO, ANYone who does not stop abuse when they see it occurring, is as guilty as the abuser. Anyone who does not report abuse when they learn of it holds responsibility as well. Any further abuse by that perp is then on their head.

We can connect this discussion to OWS movement all around the country. The city governments believe that they can come in with Gestapo-like tactics (abuse) and beat the protesters into submission. The governments and the corporations are the abusers. Maybe the abused have had more then enough and aren't going to take it anymore?

"What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger".

mistah charley, ph.d.
11/15/2011 11:42

Seemingly off-topic, but related in the sense of providing a counterbalance - there are links to the ABC show about Gabby Giffords' recovery, so far, at

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/1878?ref=fpblg_beta

The persistence of the will to live and flourish, and the love and nurturance shown to Gabby by so many in her time of need, is inspiring. It's clear that she's still there, even though she has a considerable way to go in redeveloping her verbal abilities. And as her husband Mark says, although at some point she said felt like she'd been "beaten", she has been beaten-up, but she has NOT been defeated.

May the Creative Forces of the Universe be with us all.

11/15/2011 11:49

And speaking of the OWS movement and speaking back to abusive power, there's Makana's song "We Are the Many".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EavjwrnxFiQ



http://makanamusic.com/?slide=we-are-the-many

11/15/2011 12:02

@curiouser

You may not have read the above email sent by McQueary to his former teammates. Here it is:


@PeterAlexander: McQueary email to fmr. teammates: "I did the right thing…you guys know me...the truth is not out there fully... I didn't just turn and run... I made sure it stopped...I had to make quick, tough decisions."

So McQueary states that he did do something. He stopped whatever was going on. That doesn't sell so media doesn't report it. Media and posters prefer the story that McQueary ran and told his Daddy, like a coward. That sells. Gets the public in a huff, clicking like crazy. Truth has played a very small part in this horror show thus far. Yet Joe Paterno's 61 years of work has been flushed down the toilet at 30 Rock Center. He was fired OVER THE PHONE. Paterno's name has been removed from the Big Ten conference trophy. McQueary is lucky to find a job in football ever again. Mediaand the public's response to their misinformation is responsible for these reactions. If they're guilty they should pay dearly. At this point they're only guilty in the distorted court of public opinion while the alleged perp, Sandusky, has been virtually ignored.

Franco Harris (PSU grad and Hall of Fame player who was famous for his 'immaculate reception' catch in the Super Bowl versus Oakland--Laura surely remembers) had this to say.

"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands-down, no contest every time."

For those words of support and his criticism of the Penn State Board of Trustees and the PA Attorney General's office, Franco has just been fired from his job as spokesperson for Meadows Casino, near Pittsburgh.

Once again--the Grand Jury's finding of facts is a summary of the investigation and its findings, a 22 page summary. The summary is used to support the prosecutor's case and only the prosecutor's case. The GJ summary was leaked and the information in tyhat summary was used to villify and condemn Paterno, McQueary and others.

Way to go, media.

Confused
11/15/2011 12:22

But.....the absence of details stating that McQueary did intervene during the rape does not necessarily prove that those details were ever given to the grand jury, Tom. You're wrong to assume that McQueary is automatically telling the truth in his emails to his friends. Of course you're going to try to save face with your friends if the whole world wants you tarred and feathered at the moment.

So.....can we agree that the entire story has not been shared? The grand jury testimony was done under oath and I would have to believe that a SUMMARY of the cogent points of what happened should, reasonably, have also included info about McQueary's intervening since it included just about everything else he claims to have done after the incident. Why was his intervention left out of the report?

It would be wrong to assume that he might not just be saving face now in those emails to his friends.

viola-alex
11/15/2011 12:26

Curiouser - When I confronted my mother about my retrieval of memories of her being present and turning her back, she simply said, "Yes, I believe that is true, and I am deeply sorry." She has supported us as best she can. I did not speak to her for two years. But with time, and having done the work, I did reach a place of forgiveness. She too was abused many times in her childhood. However, I am very careful around my mother. She is not a safe person for me, nor my children.

I agree 100% with you Frosty. There can be no pass just because someone was abused. That is why my mother had to hear a lot of anger from me. But understanding that abuse breeds abuse IF it is not addressed (as I did in my therapy) then we understand better why such an ugly thing exists.

Sandusky cannot admit to what he did if he isn't made to confront it-- AS it seems one mother did years back. Sadly, the trial will probably not do that.

Mistah Charley, when I read about someone like Gabby, I often think she must have been loved and nurtured as a child to be the kind of person she is today. That may not be true, but I still feel it-- especially when I think of her in relation to S. Palin.

confused
11/15/2011 12:31

...And I'm still very confused at why the grand jury summary didn't include details like McQueary taking the kid to the hospital and helping the kid report the attack to the police. It still seems like there were a LOT of things that didn't happen. Unless the report summary simply left these things out.

It would be great if McQueary could issue a statement clarifying these matters since they are very important in understanding what really went down. Just sending a face-saving email to friends really doesn't cut it.

Ottoline
11/15/2011 12:39

Oh, V-A -- Thank you for that horrifying and moving video link. I urge everyone to view it.

Well, that eloquent speaker might not have been in it for the money, but I am. If we put a dollar value on 10 years of therapy, and a dollar value on 4+ years of tuition+stipend, times the number of children in Second Mile over those years. I wonder what it adds up to. Way less than a few days of war-profiteering. I wish some billionaire would do the math and set something up RIGHT NOW for those children and former children.

It's already been 10+ years, and all the current to-ing and fro-ing will surely take more years. But we're pretty sure some children were abused, right? So let's put the Ottoline Plan into effect NOW: full tuition+stipend (or cash equivalent for those past college) plus an unlimited credit card for therapy. For each one. If we over-provide the benefit for some who were not affected, I say it's better than under-providing, which has been the case so far. Bill Gates, where are you?

Without waiting to assign blame and incarcerate (which will happen in due course), how about just helping those who were hurt?

curiouser
11/15/2011 12:44

@Tom - I saw the email and the media is reporting on it. I have great appreciation for what McQueary did in testifying before the grand jury. He could have said he witnessed horseplay. Still...he didn't do enough if Sandusky wasn't arrested on the spot and help wasn't secured for the child. And we all need to realize that we, too, may have failed to take right action and that, as you've pointed out, there is much we don't know. I wish I could find the quote which more clearly expresses the thought.

11/15/2011 12:50

@confused--I say to you that if you want to disbelieve McQueary's email then why believe anything he said, unless of course it was under oath. McQueary came forward. He testified. He's been punished for testifying. You are in your very words, from a million miles away figuratively, convicting him. Who said anything about taking the kid to the hospital? He reported the incident to his higher-up, Joe Paterno. Joe reported it up the line to the Athletic Director who brought it to the attention of a VP, Schultz, under whose purview is the university police force. The university police force is a fully functioning police force with 46 armed police officers mandated by the state of PA. It was taken to the police.

Here what makes sense that you wrote, "It still seems..." Things aren't always as they seem we need to continue reminding ourselves. For example, Sarah Palin the charming, Christian, loving, honest, talented, accomplished, motherly former half term AK Gov. "Seems like"



visitor
11/15/2011 12:56

The lawyer for accused child molester Jerry Sandusky apparently likes his women young.

Defense attorney Joe Amendola, 63, representing Sandusky in the sexual molestation case roiling Penn State and Joe Paterno’s legendary football program, impregnated a teenager and later married her, The Daily has learned.

According to documents filed with Centre County Courthouse, Amendola served as the attorney for Mary Iavasile’s emancipation petition on Sept. 3, 1996, just weeks before her 17th birthday.

www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/11/cant-make-this-stuff-up

visitor
11/15/2011 12:59

V-A
11/15/2011 13:20

I'm grateful McQueary did what he did do. Most people would have done less, and clearly, many did. What he witnessed was tantamount to seeing God raping a child-- if you are as steeped in football as he was. Prepare yourself now for what you will do if that day arises for you. Tomorrow in the grocery store or in the airport or in a friend's home. All places I've witnessed child abuse, and to no avail, tried to intervene.

If McQueary had tackled Sandusky, it's possible the child might have denied the experience, and it would have devolved into McQ's word against S's. Telling his dad, and taking him with him to Paterno, was actually very wise, imo.

And sadly, Ottoline, many victims will deny they were, because the experiences were repressed or to admit them is more painful than the behaviors created to cover them and survive.

visitor
11/15/2011 13:28

Some might have a problem with the following. From two different news reports on Sandusky lawyer Joe Amendola.

"Amendola represented a 16-year-old girl then known as Mary Iavasile when she filed an emancipation petition in September 1996. The emancipation petition said the girl had graduated from high school in two years with a 3.69 GPA and held a fulltime job at Amendola's law office.

The girl gave birth to Amendola's child when she was 17 years old, her mother, Janet Iavasile, said. Amendola would have been about 49 years old at the time. The age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16.

Janet Iavasile said she didn't know the extent of the relationship between her daughter and the attorney. She thought he was more of a mentor than a paramour."

www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/jerry-sandusky-s-lawyer-joe-amendola-a-16-year-old-client-pregnant-married-article-1.977873


From what seems to be the first report on this. This is what Lawyers Guns and Money linked to.

"The emancipation request said Mary graduated from high school in two years with a 3.69 grade point average and maintained a full-time job — but makes no mention of any special relationship between her and her lawyer."

Some more information from the original story.

“At the time, I didn’t know the extent of the relationship,” said Janet of when her daughter first began spending time with the attorney. Amendola seemed more like Mary’s “mentor,” she added.

“She met him through the school district; she was interested in the law,” Janet said."

www.thedaily.com/page/2011/11/14/111511-news-sandusky-lawyer-teen-web/






11/15/2011 13:29

@Viola, your words from painful experience.

"And sadly, Ottoline, many victims will deny they were, because the experiences were repressed or to admit them is more painful than the behaviors created to cover them and survive."

Sandusky's attorney is now claiming they've found the boy, now in his 20s and the boy/man is saying that what McQueary reported isn't true, is denying that he was raped. IF this is true, listen to Viola. She knows and has written right above what is now happening, if this is true.


http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20111115_Sandusky_lawyer__Alleged_victim_tells_different_story.html?ref=facebook.com&jCount=4&

11/15/2011 13:39

Another McQueary email. Note: the VP mentioned in this article, Schultz, has the University Police, under his purview. Schultz is the police.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-mc-mcqueary-email-20111115,0,2014293.story

11/15/2011 14:06

Hearing that McQueary will be on CBS Nightly News tonight and that Joe will be on ABC Nightline tomorrow. Hope so.

curiouser
11/15/2011 14:42

@Viola - I'm glad your mother was able to give even the weak apology and not oppose you. Thanks for answering. I'm working through some shit, too, although not on the scale you've described; and your openness is profoundly helpful.

Ottoline
11/15/2011 15:46

I'm thrilled with this aspect of blogging -- that we can speak so plainly and directly. I can't imagine doing that in regular life. I can't imagine asking these questions OR getting frank answers. We have much to be grateful for, with this new technology.

Re the McQuery victim contradicting him: I'd say he has a right to keep from becoming a public figure known for the abuse he suffered. Luckily, this case is based on multiple data points. If it weren't, we probably would have found it hard to believe from the outset. I understand that the NYT has said other victims have come forward.

Just as with the women who have spoken publicly about abuse from Cain, victim-slandering is next.

Ottoline
11/15/2011 15:51

If the now-20-yr-old victim denies he was raped because it was "consensual" it is no less of a crime. If children blame themselves for their parents' divorce, I bet an abuse victim feels the abuse was his fault, when clearly (no matter what his feelings or actions were at the time), IT WAS NOT. 20 yrs old is still v young, too, to have to face all this. And esp publicly.

V-A
11/15/2011 16:06

Hey, Curiouser -- working through some shit is really the only meaning of life I'm sure of. To know the truth about myself-- no matter how terrible it is-- means I am living as fully awake as possible. I believe people who face their shit are the bravest people on earth, because there aren't any awards or prizes for it.

I wish you the best, and I wish you friends who understand.

Otto: I'll talk about my past to anyone, anytime. That is an exercise I continue for diminishing my shame. It helps me accept that my history is my history. It reminds me that I am as brave as Gabby Giffords or as a person who survived the Holocaust. I'm sad for the young man who maybe can't admit or has repressed the act McQ witnessed. It may damn him to a life of darkness, and of course, it may also mean that more children could be harmed.

Just think of Anita Harris and how brave she was. Recently she was interviewed in the NYT and I loved how strong she is.

Ottoline
11/15/2011 16:11

So V-A: more qu re denial. Is the perp unconscious when he does it? Does he go into a multiple-personality thing? What happens an hour after it's over -- has everyone "forgotten"? I'm wondering if Sandusky truly does not know what he has done? Or just can't discuss it?

Not that there's any justification. But I'd like to understand it better. On the video you gave us: did the priest not know they beat the boy? Did they not know about the sex that preceded the beating?

Ottoline
11/15/2011 16:19

Do you mean Anita Hill? The Clarence Thomas case?

Re diminishing your shame: I'm sure you know that others (who hear your story -- like me and I bet ALL the others who comment here) do not see your role as shameful at all. AT ALL. You were a semi-conscious child, I guess there's no need to say that because it's so obvious. But knowing and feeling are not the same thing. Yes, as brave as Gabby. Absolutely as hard.

11/15/2011 16:45

Here's an insightful article about McQueary including comments from a former FBI child abuse investigator that I think Viola and TF (?)would want to read and comment on.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7237700/in-penn-state-child-sexual-abuse-scandal-there-no-easy-answers-assistant-mike-mcqueary

confused
11/15/2011 17:00

I think some victims are being pressured into saying it was "consensual." Victim number 7 was
contacted right before the grand jury report went public by both Sandusky AND his wife (they contacted him separately.) I'm sure they were "encouraging" him to go a different way with his account of things.

Here's the deal.

If you experience pleasure (usually orgasm if you're a young male being molested and fellated the way Sandusky often started out with his "kids") for even five seconds during molestation, you get very confused. You know that what happened was wrong, but you felt good for a little while. In a kid's mind these things sort of get wired together and it's often not until the kid becomes more mature and more independently thinking that they finally GET "Shit, what that dude did to me was totally wrong! I'm a victim here."

It's like women who find themselves getting lubricated during rape. Many outside the situation would say that if she became wet, she "liked" the rape. Not true at all. The body's biology will often override the brain's knowledge that what's going on is wrong, often to just get you THROUGH the horrible situation and to help you survive.

So a lot of these young males whose first introduction to "sex" was through the twisted Sandusky molestation process have to get things clear in their minds; that whether they ever had orgasms with him or not during oral sex, the ENTIRE process of him approaching them in a sexual way was illegal and wrong.

In 2000 the Department of Justice released a study reporting that 35 out of every 1000 women on a typical college campus can expect to be raped in a given school year.

One very sad part of the study was this aspect: a lot of the women surveyed weren't really clear about the definitions of rape and weren't interested in naming or prosecuting their rapists. Part of this was due to immaturity and lack of proper boundaries, a clear sense of MY space and YOUR space. Other factors came into play. If you knew your rapist, had an alcoholic drink, or if you had slept with the guy in the past, some of these women didn't see that the act of rape was still rape and looked at these other factors as being "their fault" or "their invitation" to be approached for intercourse.

Also, you have to understand that once you've been assaulted you get MORE traumatized by the fact that others around you might not have listened, or they might have blamed YOU (Like so many parents of kids who were molested by priests did --- the priests were infallible messengers of God, and surely the kid's reports were a sign of THEIR sexual depravity and evil imagination.) You get more traumatized by the act of coming forward and have to really have some counselling help sometimes to even be able to clearly articulate to yourself that no, you didn't "deserve" to be raped or attacked.

When people who should love and support you blame you for these things, which so often happens in these cases with pedophilia especially, you can have real cognitive issues maintaining crystal clarity about the true nature of your abuse. As you realize how bad it was and can finally start to articulate this to yourself, which usually only happens years later as you get some distance from the situation and are an adult, the rage you go through and the depression and the urge to drown your feelings with a substance are really awful. Then on top of that you might need to deal with legal issues if you are confronting your attacker.

It's very, very complicated.

Tom should be happy with this interview McQueary just did with the press:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57325469/mcqueary-email-i-did-go-to-the-police/

Problem is.....he still doesn't say he took this kid to the hospital, and this incident happened in 2002.....and McQueary continued to watch as Sandusky was still allowed on campus (keys having been taken away or not.) I mean, Sandusky's last reported rape happened two weeks ago, folks.

McQueary may have tried to go through all the proper "channels"....but what person with normal functioning empathy can stomach working for nine more years watching a pedophile wander in and out of his campus, bringing children onto the campus, and most likely still continuing to rape them?

McQueary WANTS to sound like a hero, but he made many missteps. I'm still glad he is speaking out, though, and I'm happy that he is working with the police and gave testimony in this case.

confused
11/15/2011 17:20

Another helpful thing to realize: many victims of sexual abuse become sexually promiscuous as they grow up because the only way they feel safe or powerful is through sex. They don't get the type of enjoyment that the non-abused get from it because their entire sexual "wiring' has been so damaged from their past abuse.

Sometimes the abused will also protect their abusers because they have formed such a strong bond with them. From the outside this seems insane, but it's not.

Late in life I discovered that a friend of mine had a niece whose parents died from drug abuse and she was adopted by his father, who was very elderly. This man proceeded to sexually abuse her from the age of 10 to about 19 when he finally died. My friend would try to intervene and notify police and social services and even sought legal adoption of her, but the girl at that point was so bonded with her abuser (the two of them lived alone together and the man constantly bought her gifts and indulged her every material desire) that she accused my FRIEND of molesting her when the police questioned her. My friend tried to clear things up with the police, and they said they understood. Unfortunately if a victim doesn't blame her REAL abuser the police can't go forward with prosecution. Her abuser is dead now, but she ended up getting impregnated by him at the age of 15 (they both lied and said it was a boyfriend from school.) Both the girl and her son became a tragic tale -- the son put into foster care, the girl a drug addict and prostitute.

This stuff is so complicated and sad and sometimes even if you're on the outside trying to help you are prevented from doing so.

Original Lee
11/15/2011 17:49

Nowadays to volunteer at a school, we have to take child abuse prevention training. IIRC, the statistics we were given was that 3 out of every 20 girls and 1 out of every 20 boys were victims of some kind of sexual abuse, and that 20% of the abusers were female.

Here is a link with statistics about reported abuse: http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics#gen-stats

What is horrifying to me is that it is known there are gaps in the data - they estimate that about a third of all abuse is never reported at all, ever, to anyone.

Thank you, Viola-Alex and TF, for sharing. I think it was very brave of you to be willing to talk about it.

11/15/2011 18:06

@Confused

I'm not happy with any of this so please don't suggest that I would be because of some article. You've painted me as a defender as opposed to someone who's trying to be reasonable.

You ought to try reading some of the links. You'd be less confused. All you do is annoy me so I think I'll stay away. Honestly. 'Cause if I read anymore of your hateful slop...

Laura Novak
11/15/2011 18:22

It's not okay to call anyone's comments "hateful slop" Tom. I just don't see it and it derails us. So stop.

I've put up a new post. It's not meant to distract from this conversation. So, please, keep on talking here about the issues if you wish. Again: disagreement is okay. Name calling is not.

I just need to be up early and out the door and wouldn't be able to post anything till late tomorrow, so again, keep talking about this here, or move on over to praise Gabby Gifford and the incredible world of people who have pulled her through.

Thanks everyone for the links that help us move our understanding of this story forward.

confused
11/15/2011 18:43

Tom, I'm not painting you as a defender and I mean you no harm. I just have a very different emerging picture of the McQueary situation than you do. To be honest, this is also partly informed by family and friends in State College who also have shared that none of the pro-McQueary/him being called a hero info that has surfaced passes the "smell test" for them, which in turn has made me take a particularly critical eye as I've studied the info that is emerging. But of course, we don't have a complete picture. I don't think any of what I have posted is hateful slop, but if you believe it is, you are entitled to your opinion.

curiouser
11/15/2011 18:44

@Viola - :)

11/15/2011 18:47

Laura, I didn't call 'confused' a name. I described her posts. 'confused' is confused. These are not light matters. 'confused' really annoys me. Typing this about such a person's uninformed (is that better?) posts annoys me.

I'll take a hike. Again.

confused
11/15/2011 18:48

PS: And to be SUPER DUPER honest, I am especially skeptical of McQueary's reactions given my decade of work as a professional counselor dealing with victims of many types of abuse, and also having been the victims of many types of abuse myself.

But if that's "hateful slop," and you want to keep blaming victims and people who try to shed a light on abusers and people who mostly likely have helped abuse to continue (since McQueary continued to work there from the incident he saw in 2002 on into the present and, as I mentioned earlier, watched Sandusky waltz in and out of the place with kids all that time.......)

Then I guess that's, um, instructive.

11/15/2011 18:53

Now 'confused' accuses me of 'blaming the victims'. Slop.

Ottoline
11/15/2011 19:46

This is esp addressed to anyone who has been abused: do you later in life have a sixth sense of who abusers are? I mean a credible, somewhat verified (to your own satisfaction) sense? If yes, does anyone think Sandusky could be innocent? Framed? We know that mass hysteria and false eyewitness accounts do happen, like the Salem Witch trials. Joe P used the term "witch hunt." which I found odd.

Could it be Sandusky is being framed? I don't feel I have any 6th sense at all; if fact I know I am quite gullible. So I'd love to get the take of anyone who has special experience with this.

Ottoline
11/15/2011 20:02

Tom: please try to feel grateful that we have different views on this blog -- that's so much better for learning something. I don't find "confused" any more confused than the rest of us about it. Way less so, in fact, because there is obvious expertise there. Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

Curiouser: Yes, the pleasure thing is v confusing. Plus the pleasure of pleasing a person one either loves or for whatever reason needs/wants to please. Yikes, think of the very young Ms Duggard, who had to find a way to get through each day. Another reason one might have nothing to do with going public (I think) is because one is guaranteed to be dragged through the mud, no matter what. What an additional price to pay!

11/16/2011 08:11

Sandusky Scandal - Facts and Myths (long)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's so much stuff flying around so many media outlets that people are assuming to be correct that I decided to jot down the facts and myths so that they can be presented to anyone that might need an education on what's happening. Feel free to make editorial comments. I'll post the facts first, then the myths due to the length.


Facts

Fact – Jerry Sandusky is the only defendant in the sexual misconduct case.



Fact - Tim Curley and Gary Shultz also have charges filed for perjury and failure to report.



Fact – The Attorney General has reported that Joe Paterno and Mike McQuery testified previously and were cooperating with the investigation.



Fact – There hasn’t been a trial as of 11/16/11.



Fact – Jerry Sandusky retired from PSU following the 1999 season. He was allowed to maintain an office at PSU following his retirement.



Fact – No charges were ever filed following the investigation of a 1998 accusation involving Sandusky. Those charges were investigated by the State College PD, as well as the Center County DA that was later reported missing. That DA has never been located.



Fact – Joe Paterno was the head football coach at PSU during the time of the acts described in the Grand Jury report. He was fired by the PSU Board of Trustees on 11/9/11.



Fact – Tim Curley was the Athletic Director at PSU during the time of the acts described in the Grand Jury report. He took a leave of absence effective 11/7/11.



Fact – Gary Shultz was the VP of Finance and Business at PSU during the time of the acts described in the Grand Jury report. The PSU Police department is a part of that division.



Fact – Grahm Spanier was the President of PSU during the time of the acts described in the Grand Jury report.



Fact – Mike McQuery was a Graduate Assistant coach during the time of the acts described in the Grand Jury report.

11/16/2011 08:14

Re: Sandusky Scandal - Facts and Myths (long)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Myths (Items speculated about in the media that have not been verified )



Myth - Joe Paterno DID NOT follow up after Mike McQuery reported what was described in the Grand Jury report. Fact - The 2002 event was reported by Paterno to his superiors. The information as to every event that happened is not included in the 23 page Grand Jury Summary.



Myth - Joe Paterno DID follow up after Mike McQuery reported what was described in the Grand Jury report. Fact - The 2002 event was reported by Paterno to his superiors. The information as to every event that happened is not included in the 23 page Grand Jury Summary.



Myth – All of the acts took place at PSU. Fact - Only two of the 40 counts presented in the Grand Jury summary were described to have taken place at PSU. One of those events was presented to have occurred in the Football building.



Myth - Mike McQuery did not stop the act taking place in the shower in 2002. Fact - The Grand Jury summary does not state all of the actions the individual took as it is a summary. A recent e-mail from McQuery states that he did stop the act.



Myth - The Grand Jury report contains all information from the investigation. Fact - The 23 page document is a Grand Jury Summary only, and does not contain ALL of the testimony and facts gathered over an approximately 3 year time period. This information was to be sealed, and used for the purpose of presenting the sexual misconduct charges against Mr. Sandusky, as well as perjury charges against Mr. Curley and Mr. Shultz.



Myth – Misconduct acts took place at the home of Joe Paterno. Fact - This was misinformation on the “ticker” for NBC news, and was later updated to note the reference to Jerry Sandusky’s home.



Myth – PSU Students, players, alumni, and/or professors were involved. Fact - In no instance has the character or involvement of any PSU players or students, alumni, or professors been included in the Grand Jury report.



Myth – Mike McQuery received death threats because PSU was harmed by reporting the act that he testified to seeing to the Grand Jury. Fact - Mike McQuery received death threats, however, there is no evidence to support why those threats were made. Commentary - One can speculate also that he received the threats because it was perceived that he did not stop the act that he testified to witnessing. He could have received death threats for many other reasons as well.



Myth – Supporting anyone associated with PSU is the same as supporting child abuse. Fact - The students of Penn State University maintain the largest student-run philanthropy in the country. The many millions of dollars raised by “Thon” have been donated to children’s cancer research.

Fact - In the first week following the charges being filed against Jerry Sandusky, Penn State Alumni and students have raised nearly $400,000 for RAINN: The nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization.

Fact - There are hundreds of thousands of Penn State Alumni who every day work within many public service organizations that assist children in need, the elderly, etc.



Myth – Joe Paterno “Covered Up” the act that was reported to him in 2002. Fact - Joe Paterno has not been accused of any wrong doing in this case. It has been confirmed that Joe Paterno reported the events to the Athletic Director, as well as the person in charge of police, about the act that took place.



Myth – The entire coaching staff knew about the acts that allegedly took place. Fact - There is no testimony regarding the remaining coaching staff anywhere included as fact.



Myth - Dan Connor knew about Sandusky's misgivings and that is why he was charged with harassment for prank phone calling Sandusky's house. Fact - Dan Conner was never charged w/ harassment, and was placed in Joe Paterno’s “Dog House” for prank calling asst coach Joe Sarra.



Myth – Mike McQuery was scheduled to be head coach for PSU after Joe Paterno was fired until he was placed on administrative leave on 11/10/11. Fact - McQuery *was* planned to be an assistant coach, not the head coach, until placed on leave.



Myth – Joe Paterno knew of the 1998 acts for which Jerry Sandusky was accused. Fact - There is no evidence to support this statement.





Viola-Alex
11/16/2011 08:31

I'm really glad this thread is continuing, even with the confusing remarks and points of view. Dear Confused, the older I get, the more confused I am.

I'll be glad to answer what I know from my (and my sister's) experiences. I also am familiar with all the women who were in my facilitated abuse survival group for three years. The therapists who moderated it worked with offenders in prison, and started our group to balance their lives and gain the full perspective. It was an important step in my healing.

My memories were repressed until my daughter turned 8. I had an overwhelming desire to kill her, and started at that point. I also found myself fantasizing about hurting babies.

The first therapist I saw told me these feelings were normal. I moved on.

In the course of the ten years, I saw 4 therapists who led me down the path as far as they could. Once the door was opened, the memories flooded back and could occur anytime, anywhere.

I was one of the fortunate ones. My father's girlfriend's daughters were abused by him for years. I'd never met them, but during therapy contacted one of them. She confirmed what I had experienced. Many survivors with recovered memories do not have independent witnesses. I had those women and my sister. My brother broke his neck at 20 playing TX high school football (another story about abuse and coaches) and has lived as a quadreplegic for 36 years. We have spared him our stories, since we felt like he had enough to deal with. But he has been plagued by nightmares always.

The last/best therapist told me that I had to relive the past in order to feel and express what had been denied me at that time. It is a horrible process, because you are there. I mean, THERE. All over again. But once you've felt and expressed the pain, anger, and sadness-- you can grow up again and move on. My sister and I had the means ($) to do this, and I had the will: because of my children, who I fear may also have been abused by my father.

As far as Sandusky being framed. . . My answer: McQ, the janitor, and the mother who confronted S. in front of witnesses. No one wants to see what McQ or the janitor says they saw. No mother wants to confront the man who raped her son. That's more than enough smoke for me. In my experience, abuse stories are rarely false. Even accusers, without support, can recant because the fear is so great.



Mhurka
11/16/2011 08:57

I just heard on the radio that several months ago Joe P. put his home in his wife's name only. (Maybe to protect his assets in case of a civil lawsuit perhaps.)
I think this guy is a slithery fox. I don't trust him. Just sayin'.

Viola-Alex
11/16/2011 09:02

I am not an authority on the brain and behavior. But I do believe a few things. My brain was altered by the abuse, as was my sister's. She was disassociative and promiscuous. I was an angry perfectionist compulsive intellectual who hated sex and thought of suicide daily.

I was incapable of love. I neglected my children and was often emotionally abusive to them. But somehow, when the thoughts of killing my daughter came, I knew they were wrong. That was a turning point. My father had died four months earlier.

Many times I asked my therapist what my father knew. My father was charming and handsome. In mid-age he became a minor celebrity from acting. He also shared his children at sex parties and used them to make and sell child porn.

Is that a monster? yes. Is it someone whose brain was so traumatized that it had reformed in the only way it could to survive-- even if that meant raping children and babies? I guess so.

Should he have stood trial for what he did to us? Absolutely. I like to believe I would have been strong enough to stand in court and act on my own behalf-- instead of my father's.

When OJ Simpson was on trial, I was in therapy. I asked my therapist if OJ really believed in his own innocence, and his opinion was -yes-. That's how powerful the damaged brain can be. It alters reality to suit the compulsive or psychotic behavior because to admit guild would mean the House of Cards (constructed survival) would collapse.

I have no doubt Sandusky pimped boys to donors.




Ottoline
11/16/2011 09:29

Here's a link that I found to be a good summary with a few new tidbits (which could be correct or not, like Paterno's pension will be $500k/YEAR!), and it seems to me to be in agreement with Tom's set of myths/facts:

http://tinyurl.com/73ry4uo

V-A: Thank you for giving us a look into your world. What a harrowing journey, and just to repair this overwhelming damage done by the person who should have been your greatest support, along with your Mom. You are amazing to have survived it. And to help us try to grasp it.

I still don't understand: is a perp like Sandusky aware that he did the abuse and thus knows he is lying, or is his denial complete, even now, with the testimony of others and reading about himself? I have that same question re Cain and Clarence Thomas.

My thoughts re "Sandusky framed?" were swirling around the question of who benefits from this story dominating the news, esp right now, and my thoughts go back to the GOP, who seem to be trying to recover from their candidates' multiple gaffes. I'm still not clear on how this came to reach the MSM, in contrast to the supposedly planned other kind of rollout that I see mentioned here and there. And why the long delay? Why "not enough evidence" per the missing/dead DA.

Ottoline
11/16/2011 09:39

Thx, V-A. Our comments crossed. The pimping issue brings it back to this huge societal cancer, where people are willing to participate, to cover-up. Only they feel justified in covering up because "it didn't happen" per their revised reality. Like your father's "sex parties." I believe YOU, but my mind reels. The complicity of the others.

Once again, I send you all my good thoughts, a motherly/sisterly hug, and just a cocoon of best wishes.

Confused
11/16/2011 11:08

Tom, I appreciate you posting "facts" except nowhere do you quote sources where you found these "facts," which would be helpful. It seems you are criticizing people like me for having an incomplete picture of things based on media reports, but from where are you culling your "facts?" Please quote sources.

Since my posts last night I've been in touch with a reporter friend of mine, recipient of numerous awards over two decades, and this person has not been able to find ANY official police report filed at State College regarding the 2002 incident about which McQueary claims to have contacted police.

On a personal level, I'm also musing on this today: Did McQueary immediately take the child to the hospital? He would have been suffering from brutal anal tears and fissues and semen deposits would have potentially proven rape, depending how quickly the child was taken to the emergency room and depending on how quickly a rape test was done.

That's a part of this story that would appear to be missing, too. Again, perhaps it somehow didn't end up in the grand jury summary. But I find myself wondering about it nonetheless.

It's okay to wonder, as a human being who is empathetic, Tom. You seem to want to paint me as stupid or evil or something for simply raising some questions. I still have to wonder about your motivation regarding that.

Viola-Alex
11/16/2011 11:20

Otto-- again thank you for your wellwishes and questions.

I did read somewhere the idea of a tacit agreement to let Paterno achieve his milestone of victories before stepping in-- but that was just opinion.

My sister has a theory that child abuse exposes go in cycles-- and that when they explode it is a societal way to self-correct by pointing the finger of blame at an "other." The church, priests, football coaches, daycare centers, homosexuals, teachers, boogiemen, homeless, whatever. This is a way to NOT address the larger societal issue of families who conspire in lies. Most childhood abuse comes from family members.

Did you read about Sandusky's childhood and what his dad did for a living?
Also, I had no idea Sandusky had been married and had adopted/fostered children.

I have two very good male friends who were abused as boys. Both were abused by their mothers, brothers, fathers, or stepfathers. No abuse outside the home.

On the other hand, I once warned a friend about watching her son carefully during his rehearsals at a Christian Youth Theater Company. Two years later, she called me and said How did you KNow?! A favorite director (gay Christian) had been caught molesting a boy. It did not make the news. I'm sure that man is somewhere else doing all the same things.

Confused
11/16/2011 11:31

PS Viola and TF -- I have been neglectful in not thanking you both for your extremely brave personal stories shared here in comments. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Your stories and my natural sense of "tiger mom" protectiveness toward the abused, enhanced by my professional work in this area, have contributed to my suggesting that Tom was seeming to "blame the victims' in appearing to try to shut down conversation in which I have been shining a spotlight on the seemingly puzzling behavior of McQueary. I was out of line accusing him directly. Unfortunately, people attacking whistleblowers, victim's advocates, and people like me with just general QUESTIONS about a potential enabler of abuse (MCQueary DID work at Penn State for another nine years after the incident he witnessed, which is completely unfathomable to me) gets my hackles up, even if Tom is just trying to clarify the known facts in this case.

So again, Tom, I apologize if I have offended you. But why were you calling my comments "rot" before I even said you sounded like someone blaming victims with your tone?

I dunno. Passions get high around this stuff.

I still think McQueary is a steaming, massive pile of shit and will continue to do so until and if I one day see evidence that he went to the hospital with that kid, had a rape kit done, and filed a REAL police report instead of passing things off to the school administrator who was the LIASION to local police, which it appears he did instead.

I AM allowed an opinion, Tom. Despite what you might think :)

Mhurka
11/16/2011 11:37

When M.McQueary said he informed the police he might have been refering only to the campus police(versus regular police). If this is the case then this would put an interesting spin on this story because the campus police are still part of the Penn state family and of course within a family I would think that there are certain allegiances. Just speculatin'.

11/16/2011 12:17

@Mhurka--

You think Joe Paterno is a slithery fox? That's quite a comment. Maybe you should look into Joe Paterno's life's work and learn how incredibly ridiculous and obnoxious that comment is. An 85 year old man putting the house he and his 71 year old wife co-own into to his wife's name, exclusively--you think that's sneaky and planned. Yeah it's planned--estate planned.

Also, what you call campus police is a 46 person armed force which is fully mandated by the state of PA as a police force. Yes, that the university police is in-house so to speak raised my eyebrows as well. But this poice force isn't Barney Fife and Co.

http://www.police.psu.edu/aboutus/

I'm coming from a different place than most of youi. I'm very familiar with Penn Stae and especially its football program. Most of you are basing your opoinions on the media. Imagine that all your info regarding Palin came from Fox News. The media in this case, and most cases, has fabricated and distorted this story beyong belief. And it just keeps coming. All they want to talk about is Joe Paterno, a witness for the PROSECUTION. Nobody's interested in the victims or the alleged perp. It's all about Joe. It's BS.

The greatest tragedy in this horror show is the children. What the media has done to Joe Paterno is far behind as a tragedy but still despicable.

11/16/2011 13:31

Laura, I had another post dweebled that explained the University Police Dept. and a few other thins.
'Confused' you description of Mike McQueary would be an apt way to describe your comments regarding Penn State. You don't know what you're talking about. Rick Perry may have an opening on his lynching team. It'd suit you. Hangem' high, learn the truth later.

The University Police Dept. Is under VP of Finance and BUsiness Gary Schultz's purview. He is not a liason. Why the hell do you thhink he was arrested for perjury? Why do you think he was in the meeting with the AD and McQueary? See below. Business and Finance, a department of which is the University Police.

http://www.fandb.psu.edu/fandb/units/University-Police.cfm

mistah charley, ph.d.
11/16/2011 13:44

Presumably what McQueary did and didn't do will come out when and if there's a trial. Just piecing together what it says in the grand jury presentment, which I read, and what he recently wrote to his former teammates, particularly "No one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds," it seems likely to me that McQueary stood there staring for that length of time, until Sandusky, under his disapproving gaze, disengaged from the boy and the sex act ended.

As to whether the boy had the dire medical consequences some have hypothesized - maybe; but there are possible scenarios in which it might not have been that severe.

It's hard to understand how, after such a situation, and even after the 1998 complaints, things went on as they did. But we have the many examples of all kinds of horrible abuse in families and institutions in a variety of countries to show that often even those not guilty of the initial crime think it better to be part of the second crime - the concealment. It seems clear that there's a Penn State cover-up to be revealed.

11/16/2011 14:21

V-A and TF--thank you both so much for sharing your stories. I am sorry that you had to go through what you did. I don't think that I could be as strong as you both must be.

Confused--I am on the same page as you as far as your questions and comments. While it is true that all of the information is not out there, the information that is out there raises a lot of questions. Valid questions in my opinion. That is kind of the purpose of this blog and specifically this post--to discuss what we know and what we think that it means. It is the same thing that we do with SP, we discuss what we know and try to figure out the rest. For someone to try and shut the discussion down because it isn't going in the direction that they like is pretty childish. So, keep at it Confused. Your comments are worthwhile.

11/16/2011 14:43

@Jo

"...to discuss what we know..."

All you know is what the media reports. You trust them? So really you don't know anything at all. Nothing to discuss then, is there?

It's as if some of you have never read a bit of history.

11/16/2011 19:07

Another link:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2011/11/16/police-mcqueary-didn-t-contact-us.html

11/16/2011 19:36

The biggest complaint nationwide and here is that Paterno and McQueary didn't do enough. They could've done more, a lot more. So I challenge the accusers here to search there respective souls about what they've done, and if they could've done more, a lot more.

I'm a very imperfect man. I'm a hero only reluctantly. And for you, Ottoline, "I know myself but that is all." I don't know what I'd have done in the circumstance that McQueary found himself. I like to think I'd have done the absolutely right thing. But I don't know. None of you know either. If you think you know it's likely what you think you know is a lie.

Nothing's real until it's personal.

Ottoline, about the $500K/yr. pension that Joe Paterno earned. My ubderstanding is that the actual figure is the average of his three higest paid years of his 61 years of work for the university, between $541K and $568K. Paterno worked for a comparative pittance for a school whose football revenue is one of the top 5 in the nation. The Penn State football program, for all practical purposes, pays for the other about 30 athletic programs.

Ottoline
11/16/2011 21:21

Tom -- You seem so angry with us. What's going on?

Even if I (and we) personally would have done the same things or less, that doesn't change the reality that SOMEONE should have done more. It's both U.S. law and moral/ethical law in most cultures. Assuming the abuse is true, which will be confirmed or denied (albeit imperfectly, as with all things). Surely you are not saying just because we are all fallible humans that it's okay to allow someone among us to sodomize children?

We all know this is complicated and tricky in terms of big institutions that aim to do good. And do. And good people who made mistakes, large and small. And pedophiles in a culture that does too little to stop this crime.

I hear you comment repeatedly that you know facts, concepts, and history better than the rest of us. Not a problem. You have a right to your opinion. My opinion is: I disagree with you.

11/16/2011 23:05

@Ottoline--I'm angry because Joe Paterno's life's work has been thrown into the shitter because of a irresponsible, mendacious and reprehensible media. That's what media has evolved into. That's what they are today. And assholes like us belive the bastards.

Otto, we don't disagree. This whole thing is hateful, for the children more than anyone else by far. Joe would admit that easily, I think. Watchers and listeners are quick to condemn what they themselves are capable of, not doing the absolute right thing. It's not easy. Read the original comments to Laura's post. Read some of the posts above. Isn't it true that sometimes we don't know enough to have an oopinion? Doesn't stop most. We complain about the spontaneous and overlapping news cycles yet we respond to questionable info like it's true.

"I hear you comment repeatedly that you know facts, concepts, and history better than the rest of us. Not a problem. You have a right to your opinion. My opinion is: I disagree with you."

About the above, yes, only in regard to Penn State and especially its football program. Otherwise I know more or less than tyhe average fairly educated person except perhaps in a few discipline. Did I open my mouth when you all were writing and discussing pregnancy and insurance in smart, informed posts. No, because I don't know jackall about those things. The question of the moral resposibility a person has is a good one and has been the focus of this Penn State business. But, the fingerpointing and accusations and judgements wothout the facts is abhorrent. Look what it's done. The aftershock has been devastating. And it's not over.

People, all of us, we're just horrible.


11/16/2011 23:20



SP: Hangem' (unless it's about me)

"It's not the player's fault that they have a perverted, former assistant coach. I would like to see the players not suffer more than they have suffered. As for the perp, and perps, though, that allowed the sinfulness to go on as they had allowed in the past, you know, I say about this assistant coach, Sandusky--hang him from the highest tree, I'll bring the rope. I think it's pathetic, it's horrible, it's atrocious what took place. If it is true that these children were victimized, then he himself and anybody who allowed what he did to go on, they should be the one to suffer, not today's young players who have been innocent in all of this."



11/17/2011 08:06

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

“I might believe in the Redeemer if his followers looked more redeemed.” Nietzsche

http://womenintheology.org/2011/04/22/the-cross-and-the-lynching-tree/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7442/is_200804/ai_n32266880/

No more.

11/17/2011 08:52

Tom, thank you for the link to the WIT site. It is fascinating.

Confused
11/17/2011 10:34

Tom, I'm still waiting for you to provide sources for the huge laundry lists of "Facts/Myths" you provided. If, as you suggest, we must distrust the media, then what are your sources for the info you provided? You can't go around yelling at us for not having the complete information and trying to piece the truth together with what we read in the media and then, at the same time, not tell us why your sources for "Facts/Myths" are so impeccable compared to what we've been piecing together. Doesn't work that way.

My journalist friend who discovered the other day that no police report was ever filed -- this person's info was verified by the police just yesterday:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/11/report-penn-state-coach-says-he-stopped-shower-assault/1

But obviously my friend, being a journalist and member of the media, is untrustworthy......so I guess the police's own admission that no report was filed is also suspect?

Do you have any PRIMARY vs. secondary sources for your facts/myths, Tom?

That's what true journalists seek, primary sources. Sure, those sources still sometimes lie and will often do so to save face, to protect themselves from lawsuits and huge liability payments, so I'm not saying that everybody involved is telling the truth.

But it still seems that we're just supposed to accord Tom and his "Facts/Myths" high honors of absolute impeccable integrity and aren't allowed to look at the situation from other perspectives.

Not buying it, and I recommend you don't either, folks.

11/17/2011 11:37

"People, all of us, we're just horrible."

Well, all of us have divine and demonic tendencies, as Lord Krishna has said. And focusing on this matter does remind us powerfully of the demonic.

So, for a change of pace, I suggest looking at some slices of life from Seattle. The police and the Occupy folks had an interaction there recently, and although the cops did what seemed appropriate to them to protect the status quo, the protestors had their inspiring moments.

I urge you to watch Keith Olbermann's interview with a participant -

http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/occupy-seattle-octogenarian-activist-dorli-rainey-on-being-pepper-sprayed-by-seattle-police-importance-of-activism

and read the statement by Methodist minister Rich Lang

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/16/1037069/-Occupy-Seattle-Message-From-Minister-Who-Was-Pepper-Sprayed?via=siderec

V-A
11/17/2011 12:15

I'm sorry to say I told you so. The mother of Sandusky's "adopted" son speaks out. Please read to the end, and note that there is one mother in this who is taking care of her children.

http://gma.yahoo.com/penn-state-scandal-mother-sanduskys-adopted-son-speaks-091457912.html

The fear, change in behavior, and suicide are all signs of sexual abuse, even though Matt may not be able to approach those memories.

Confused
11/17/2011 14:02

A real hero's story -- someone who had great intestinal fortitude and did the right thing even when institutional pressure was put upon her to shut the fuck up about a rape she had witnessed:

From the comments section at this blog post link:

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2011/11/sandusky-has-been-molesting-kids-since.html

Here's the entire comment


The entire comment posted from a kickass heroine commenter by the nickname of Cardinal Girl:

"Ive been there. When you witness a rape, and choose to call the police and report it, its to protect the victim. If you choose NOT to report it to the police, you choose to protect the rapist. Black & White. 30 years ago I was a 20 yr old girl who walked in on a rape in a rehab center. Yes I was stunned and backed right out the door. Took a breath, and walked right back in. I pretended not to know what was happening and just said, "Oh it was you - hey Laura, the nurses station is looking for you. I better get you up there fast," as I wheeled her chair out of the room. I told the head nurse what I witnessed and the 1st thing she said was "DONT DO ANYTHING OR TELL ANYONE, I have to call the Administrator." Seriously. I watched a nurse these kids loved, that we all respected, choose to protect the rehab's reputation 1st and her job, before protecting the kids. Hey the guy wasn't running anywhere - he worked in the laundry and didn't think I saw since I didn't freak out. They asked me to wait, while the boss raced to the facility. Then the machine kicked in full force. "We can handle this - do not go to the police, you don't understand, blah blah blah." I said I was calling the police and didn't care what they said. Then they wanted me to wait until their attorney arrived and I refused. They wanted me to make the call from the office so they could be on the line. I refused, walked home and called the cops. This was at the # 1 rehab in MA for young adults and I was in shock they responded this way. I not only called the cops and testified in court, I testified against the rehab. Turns out it had been going on for some time with the patients. I am no hero, I just reacted. If you dont stop it, if you dont do what you can as a human being to report it, well ... it makes you something else. It makes you a rapist too."

---

Wonderful real life example of how all of us should aspire to behave if witness to an assault, crime, or rape.

Ottoline
11/17/2011 14:59

I bet I would not have had the presence of mind to get the victim out of there as the first step. In my thinking over what McQ saw and did, I got stuck lots of times thinking about the victim begging me to say nothing, denying anything bad had happened, pleading to get no one else involved in it. It sure is true that someone has to be the grown-up, and fast.

A benefit of this discussion, for me, is to think it all through, like with your last comment re Cardinal Girl, V-A. I'm reminded of that time when Capt Sully landed his plane in the East River, and the passenger who opened one of the exit doors had indeed read and thought about those emergency instructions that most of us don't listen to. He had even looked at the card that explains it further. He was rehearsing it in his mind as the plane went down.

So an advantage of thinking through McQ's tough moment is that it prepares us to come closer to doing the right thing, like Cardinal Girl did. Bravo Cardinal Girl, wherever you are.

Confused
11/17/2011 15:39

I would also like to learn more about this Penn State professor (former one, i believe, he was teaching in the early 1980's) who allegedly joined two others in periodic molestations of a boy from the ages of about 11 to 15. The professor's name was John Neisworth. This archived piece talks about the victim successfully bringing charges against the professor and one of his other abusers in 2005 but his third abuser, Karl Goeke, in 2006 was a fugitive. I wonder if he was ever found. Goeke posed as a chess tutor and gradually groomed the kid, giving him drugs and alcohol, began abusing him and then brought in his two friends, one of whom was the professor at Penn State.

What ever happened to that professor?

confused
11/17/2011 15:42

Forgot to post the referenced links about the story:

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=37009

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/17/2989909/man-claims-sexual-abuse-was-ignored.html

Looks like the charges were later dropped against Neisworth, and Penn State was disinterested in doing anything about the alleged abuse.

11/17/2011 17:25

Rumor mill from a Facebook posting:

Michael Day
The rumor mill says that the grand jury testimony shows (not appearing in the indictment since these are not facts relevant to the indictments of Sandusky, Curley, Schultz) that 3 days after McQueary's meeting with Curley/Schultz, Paterno followed up and was told that a full investigation was occurring. Having heard nothing, approx. 3 months later, Paterno followed up again and was told that the p...olice and the DA were not going to pursue the matter. It is reported that Paterno's reaction was one of anger and that he demanded that Sandusky be barred from campus. Paterno was told that he didn't have that authority as the football coach. Paterno then said he was going to bar Sandusky from all football facilities and was told that he did have that authority. (4th hand from the AG's office. Assign veracity accordingly.)

Story coming out that a Syracuse mens Asst. Basketball coach may have molested a ballboy. Word nis that ESPN had this story back in 2002-03 and didn't proceed. Maybr they didn't proceed because such a large part of their staff is out of the renowned Syracuse School of Communication. Waiting for ESPN to bring themselves down. Shut it down ESPN or EnablersSPN.

Maybr if the slop poster read the Grand Jury summary he/she wouldn't have so many questions about facts.

11/17/2011 19:36

Who wants to do more?

http://www.proudtobeapennstater.com/

Insider says that Joe Paterno is not doing well physically.

11/17/2011 19:47

Here's an irony from a poster who's also a shrink regarding Graham Spanier, the Penn State president who resigned (5 minutes before he would have been fired): Note--UNL is Univ. of Nebraska, Lincoln (main campus).

Here's the really tragic bottom line. G. Spanier, before he left PSU to become a UNL administrator, had been a member of one of the two biggest psychology private-practice groups in State College as a family therapist. WHAT THE F**K WAS HE THINKING FROM 1998 to 2011?

11/18/2011 17:46

Joe Paterno has lung cancer. Probably waited until now to announce this so he could evoke sympathy. That would follow the claims that his estate planning was disingenuous as well. What's he gonna do next, die on purpose to get people distracted. Wouldn't be surprised. Paterno's a very evil man.

http://pennstate.scout.com/2/1130157.html

Mhurka had Paterno pegged:

Mhurka
11/16/2011 08:57:41
I just heard on the radio that several months ago Joe P. put his home in his wife's name only. (Maybe to protect his assets in case of a civil lawsuit perhaps.)
I think this guy is a slithery fox. I don't trust him. Just sayin'

Bastard Paterno and his wife gave several million dollars to PSU for their library knowing many years ago that this scandal would eventually hit. They also donated a million dollars to build a local Catholic chapel--sneaky bastards, getting the damn Catholics are their side when they shit hits the fan.

Paterno's cancer is treatable, not the kind where you get a death sentence. Probably made a deal with God, him knowing the Pope and all (Well, maybe he doesn't exactly know the Pope but a million bucks would get his attention). Give me cancer to side track the media but make sure it's the kind that I can survive. I wouldn't put anything past these people.

It's good we pay attention to TV and the Internet otherwise we might think the Paternos are kind, compassionate and generous. As if.

11/19/2011 12:16

Looks like you all have done your work and have left Penn State to bleed out. Not me. Read this and thought of the finger pointers here. This comes from a letter written to PSU alumni about the actions of their Board of Trustees.

--This irresponsible rush to judgment is not speculation on our part, but a proven fact from the Trustees' own statements. Trustee Keith Eckel "said the board had to act fast last week so the university could move forward, but now it has to take its time making sure it knows all the facts before making other changes." There it is in black and white: the Board acted fast before it took its time to know all the facts. Bill Kline's "It was a witch hunt at Penn State" elaborates,



"In bouncing Paterno last week, John Surma, the vice chair of Penn State's Board of Trustees, said the trustees "do not yet know all the facts."

Exactly 51 seconds later, Surma, when asked why Paterno was let go, responded: "In consideration of all the facts …"

Talk about an oxymoron. Which one is it? Do you have all the facts or not? And if not, on what are you basing your decision?"--

None of the finger pointers here, the accusers, had all the facts. They just used what they wanted to condemn and convict. Can't wait 'til the shoe's on the other foot for some of you. But of course then it'll be different won't it? Because it's YOU, your beloved self.





Laura Novak
11/19/2011 14:43

No, Tom, I have not done my work and left this story to bleed out. I have posted new things and can always come back to this. And there's a new open thread up so bring the discussion up there if you'd like. Sometimes people don't check the older threads.


Comments are closed.