A Linebacker in Labor and Delivery

6/1/2011

Sarah Palin’s Big Shoulders and Bendable Belly Pregnancy, a Conversation with Prof. Brad Scharlott

When people comment on the incredible shape-shifting, one-month-miracle pregnancy of Sarah Palin, they often allude to the various video clips of her being interviewed by Newsweek magazine. The interview was conducted on March 4, 2008 in Los Angeles, and next to Mrs. Palin is then-governor of Arizona, Janet Napolitano.

This link will take you the most interesting clip, where Mrs. Palin talks about “huntin’ and fishin’” and her big family. The interviewer at one point interjects: “And you have four?” meaning, children. And Palin replies, “I have a bunch of kids” before rapidly changing the subject. Was this because she wasn’t sure how many she would have in the following days, or because she wasn’t yet prepared to tell the world about a fifth? “A bunch of kids.” How maternal.

It’s not just that Palin was supposedly 7 months pregnant during this interview. It’s her behavior, posture, and her stunning announcement the next day that still mystify, dumbfound and disturb so many followers of this fairy tale.

Brad Scharlott, correct me if I am wrong, but the lady doth lean over a lot and doth have crosseth-legs-eth?

BS: Unquestionably-eth. Here we see a screen capture (lightened a bit to show detail) from that March 4 interview with Newsweek:

Throughout her entire Newsweek interview, which was at least 10 minutes (judging from several YouTube clips), she remained in that forward-leaning position with her legs crossed.

LN: What an amazing woman.

BS: Amazing indeed. How late into your own pregnancy, Laura, could you comfortably assume that position and hold it several minutes?

LN: Are you kidding? I still can’t, and my baby’s now 16 and rides a BMX bike.

BS: As you noted, Laura, this interview took place on March 4, which was Super Tuesday, the day McCain wrapped up the Republican nomination. And it was also one day before Palin announced that she was seven months pregnant. So, at this point, if a hoax had been planned but not yet started, Palin perhaps was not yet very mindful of how a seven months pregnant woman should sit.

LN: Yes, but she already had her disguise on – big scarf, black dress. So maybe she really was pregnant and a miracle of biomedical engineering. Or, that was just a serious suit for sitting next to the future head of Homeland Security.

BS: Or maybe she’s planning on being an undertaker. In any event, even though that black jacket she has on clearly has padded shoulders, they do not make the shoulders of her physique look unnaturally large, just well-proportioned. And seeing that made me think of how in some later pictures, her shoulders do look quite large. With that in mind, I put together the following montage:

The first picture is the one we just looked at. The next one came from Elan Frank’s home page – he’s the Israeli filmmaker we talked about earlier – so we can assume he shot it on April 8 or 9, when he did his video shoot of Palin. The April 13 picture is a cropped version of a photo taken immediately after the famous Gusty photo we viewed last time. More on this picture later. And finally the April 17 picture was taken by a Texas photographer just before Palin gave a speech at the Republican Governors Conference. This was, according to Palin, after her contractions had started and shortly before her “wild ride” trip back to Alaska, which ended the next day with Palin purportedly giving birth to Trig.

Does anything strike you as noteworthy about these photos, Laura?

LN: Well, clearly in the second set of photos, she is wearing the same jacket, but it’s different from the first. Notice the cuffs. But the jacket also sports massively large shoulder pads. The kind we all threw out when 1989 was over. But there is a correlation between big shoulders/big belly. Maybe she just needed a big jacket to cover her girth?

BS: I’m inclined to think it’s the same jacket throughout, and that she simply turned up the cuffs to make sure her now very large belly bump is not obscured by the sleeves. Perhaps your eagle-eyed readers can weigh in on that question.

But I agree that something got a lot bigger. Look how wide she appears in the bottom two photos. Either she had a phenomenal growth spurt from April 8 to April 13 or she’s wearing something very large under that jacket … something much larger, it would seem, than the apparent square pillow we discussed recently. In addition, something about the “very pregnant” Palin pictures does not seem quite right. Consider the following:

We viewed this eBay fake pregnancy belly last time and saw how similar in shape it seemed to Palin’s belly in the Gusty photo. Even though the shape of her belly isn’t quite as obvious in the two middle pictures above, the basic shape still reminds me of that eBay belly – and that shape strikes me as too symmetrical. By contrast, look at the shape of Natalie Portman’s belly (far right) from earlier this year. You can see the effect of gravity. Her belly is more like a pear than a beach ball. At least to my eyes. All of which gives weight, in my view, to the idea that Palin was not actually pregnant on April 17.

LN: All women carry in different ways. But I’d bet that Natalie Portman wasn’t miraculously “not pregnant” looking at 7 months. I mean, we all saw her at the Oscars. It was evident. You waddle, you sway, you lean back, and burp. I simply don’t know where a baby was scrunched during that Newsweek interview. Though a belly full of foam would have neatly folded and cooperated. Either way, Palin looks like she had to pee through the entire session.

Look, I am neither Palin’s family practitioner, who seems unable to speak, nor her friendly foam purveyor on Ebay. I’d be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on this pregnancy. Problem is, the immaculate maternity tale has more holes in it than my kitchen colander. I really think Mrs. Palin needs to refudiate the story for once and for all. By the time the Family Circus Vacation Paid With Political Money But Not A Campaign Bus progresses to Fanueil Hall, Palin should see this as a mandation of liberties to tell the truth about Trig. After all, she is campaigning “on the Constitution.” And stuff.

BlueberryT

6/1/2011 09:28:07 am

Ugh, is she really coming to Faneuil Hall?

I will look through my files to see if I can offer any additional info on the jackets, but just wanted to point out the missing button on the jacket in the two bottom photos. (A state governor wears a jacket with a missing button to give a major speech at a conference in TX? Classy.)

Brad Scharlott

6/1/2011 09:35:38 am

Nice catch on the missing button, BBT. Maybe SpongeBob pushed too hard trying to escape.

Jewels

6/1/2011 09:54:22 am

Jewels

6/1/2011 10:10:01 am

On March 4th Palin promotes McCain's nomination for the first time.

Interesting timeline from the interview here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2008/08/28/work-harder-prove-yourself.html

Newsweek: As an elected woman, is there any guilt about not supporting Hillary?

Palin: For me, I had to find a candidate who would do well for my state, who could understand national security as they relate to safe, secure, domestic supplies of energy so that our nation can be less dependent on foreign sources of energy, which we are today to the tune of about 60 percent--and that's nonsensical. [John] McCain fits that bill. He's also such a federalist. He is into states' rights, and that's important to my state also. But I have to admit a little bit of guilt there for not being able to jump on Hillary's bandwagon, because I would so love to see a woman president. I think our nation is overdue there. So, I've said along, "Heck yeah, America's ready for a woman president." Just, for me, it's not going to Hillary whom I can support.

Newsweek: Did you just commit news there by endorsing John McCain?

Palin: Well, I was supposed to wait until tomorrow, before the governors came out and did such a thing. But, see, that's why I'm always in trouble up in Alaska. I'll just spew things out and speak too candidly, and then I'll hear about it afterwards. "You weren't supposed to say that."
______________________________________________

This followup to this interview sheds some light on Palin's mindset March 4th.

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/2008/08/29/breslau-palin-on-clinton.html

The entire article is worth a read but here's the
crucial part:
Newsweek: I joked with her about being on McCain's short list for vice president, and we had a good chuckle. We also talked about the challenges of running a government while also raising a large and young family. At the time, I didn't know that Palin, clad in a loose, dark dress, was seven months pregnant with her fifth child. An aide called me the next day to tell me that Palin would be announcing the pregnancy at home in Alaska and that she had wanted me to know as a courtesy. She was sorry she hadn't mentioned it the night before.

Oakland MD

6/1/2011 10:13:41 am

Your memorial day comments are eloquent and right to the point! Thank you.
As for Mrs. P, yuck.

aumento de mama barcelona link

5/4/2012 06:52:59 pm

Thats like i am also say Mr. Oakland. Really useful posts for all.

crystalwolfakacaligrl

6/1/2011 10:17:46 am

OMG! Brad your picture montages...all I can do is LMAO! Its SO OBVIOUS and in YOUR FACE what she has done, but no one with the exception of a few blogs probably count 'em on my fingers will touch this...unflippin' believable!

ProChoiceGrandma

6/1/2011 10:29:14 am

When will someone buy that fake pregnancy bely and model it for us? (hint) It is still available on Amazon.com:
Costumes For All Occasions AB161 Maternity Padding Standard by Morris Costume
Buy new: $38.99

We need to find someone who is Sarah's height (5'3") and slim build to model the belly. I wonder if Sarah borrowed that black jacket from her mother, Sally Heath.

Palintologist

6/1/2011 10:38:38 am

@ProChoiceGrandma
I'm sure shet purchased it second hand at her favorite "Out of the Closet" shop.

Oct. 27, 2008
(CBS) Sarah Palin says she doesn't wear the clothes anymore that have been in focus since it was revealed the Republican National Committee spent $150,000 to outfit her and her family with designer items from posh stores.

Addressing the controversy on the campaign trail in Florida Sunday, Palin told a crowd she's "back to wearing my own clothes from my favorite consignment shop in Anchorage, Alaska."

That shop is called "Out of the Closet" and its owner, Ellen Arvold, told Early Show co-anchor Julie Chen Monday that Palin's been wearing similar outfits on the stump to what she buys at the shop.

Palin "started shopping here while she was running for governor, so it's been about three years," Arvold said.

"She shops for herself mostly," Arvold continued, "but she often brings her daughters with her, and they will pick out some things for themselves. She likes jackets. She buys kind of classic, feminine, fitted jackets. She likes leather jackets. Her girls have bought jeans here and also some jackets and knit tops."

You betcha she does not shop there now...

ProChoiceGrandma

6/1/2011 10:40:24 am

@BlueberryT Gadzooks! I have looked at those pictures a thousand+ times and never saw the missing button! ROFLMAO! Fantastic observation!

ProChoiceGrandma

6/1/2011 10:46:06 am

@Palintologist
You are probably correct about getting the black jacket from the consignment shop. But it wouldn't have been her usual "classic, feminine, fitted jackets", I wonder if the button was missing when she bought it?

Leona

6/1/2011 11:39:54 am

I am 5'5" tall, and during my first pregnancy, I went from 112 lb. to 137 lb. By my sixth month, I could not lean forward as Palin does in the Newsweek interview. Hell, I couldn't belly up to the kitchen sink to wash dishes or sit up close at the dining room table.

And yes, Palin is very classy. Her personal seamstress obviously was missing for the entire month of April, damned seamstress...

Today, I saw that Palin was wearing a Star of David. Huh? Oh, yeah, she is in NYC and NYC is full of Jews. When she showed up in DC for the Rolling Thunder motorcycle event she was wearing all black with a cross on a long chain. I wonder if she was wearing a silver pizza around her neck last night when she and Trump had a date at a pizza joint in NY?

MotherTherese

6/1/2011 01:18:29 pm

Compare how Palin is leaning forward, with her elbows resting on her thighs, in the Newsweek interview in the various clips to which you link, to Kate Hudson in this appearance on David Letterman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0nV5unX-UY&feature=related). Hudson is very pregnant (says she is reaching the point where she won't be able to fly) and has her her legs crossed for most of the clip, but she has to lean back or sort of roll to the side to keep her legs crossed. She clearly can't lean forward and frequently seems to be bracing herself against the arms of her chair to maintain her position.

KatieAnnieOakley

6/1/2011 01:23:33 pm

Regarding the rolled cuffs: I have a book called "What Not To Wear"; it gives a woman ideas to better dress HER body.

It shows how to camouflage areas you don't want people to notice (3/4 sleeves for thicker upper arms - never go sleeveless!), and accentuate areas that you consider your assets (if you're small-waisted, wear thick belts at waistline, fitted clothes, etc.).

Wearing rolled cuffs can be a couple of different things; I must roll many of my sleeves because they're too short; I'm very tall, with arms and legs proportional to my height.

Another reason might be to encourage someone looking to "look at belly area." Your eyes are drawn to the rolls cuffs and areas around them, in this case the belly.

Her sleeves in that coat in other photos were obviously long enough; so either she HAD to roll them because something was causing them to become too short.... OR she WANTED people to look / focus attention at her belly.

Just as The Scarf of Distraction creates bulk and encourages your eyes up and away from the abdomen, the cuffs could be to draw the eye TO the abdomen... or maybe something caused her sleeves to become too short - in a jacket she'd worn numerous times before... which is unlikely.

And missing button is absolute dynamite!

mistah charley, ph.d. link

6/1/2011 02:37:54 pm

[the following comment was also posted at Palingates.]

I've only been reading in the Palinological blogosphere a few weeks, although I'd seen Andrew Sullivan's questions about Trig back when he started raising the issue during the 2008 election. It was Brad Scharlott and Laura Novak going into the issue (Babygate) and the meta-issue (the Cone of Silence about Babygate) that piqued my interest, and I've been doing a lot of reading on the topic. I also feel that Laura and to some extent Brad seem to "bend over backward" to avoid convicting Sarah of fraud - to the point that I would call "unreasonable doubt" - but I think it is a desire to cross every t, dot every i, make a case that is convincing to any fair-minded person (however many of those there might be). Obviously the people who were first on the ground and have done all the hard work of finding the intentionally-concealed evidence are right to think that Brad and Laura are piggybacking on other people's work - as I'm sure they admit.

Floyd Orr also seems to be an outsider, in a different way - not so much in recency, but geographically, as someone from the Lowest of the Lower 48, and in terms of outlook. And certainly his recent snarky blog post http://niafs.blogspot.com/2011/05/cover-story.html brims with criticism of other major figures in Palin World (broadly conceived - Arianna Huffington, e.g., gets a blast from him). You catch more flies with honey than vinegar - but I think Floyd is not trying to win friends, but rather wants to rattle people's cages (metaphorically speaking - the mental boxes they are operating inside). This evening, when I read his "96 Questions" http://niafs.blogspot.com/2011/05/96-questions-for-cult-followers.html some of the issues and people he mentioned were new to me, but others sounded familiar from the reading I'd done, and the general overarching question is clear and urgent - what will it take to break through from hundreds or thousands of people who read specialized blogs, to the hundreds of thousands and then millions that need to know about this particular Big Lie? Does it matter? It may matter a very great deal.

Speaking as a newcomer and an outsider, I would also like to share something about Palin World that struck me. In some ways it is like a return to high school and its cliques. The details of people's private lives - who sleeps with whom, who is pregnant, and by whom, who has numerous sexual partners, who's gay or bi, what the insulting nicknames are for people, who does and doesn't have a job, who has been arrested, a mean-spirited enjoyment of the current or imagined future suffering of others - while some of this has its entertainment value, a lot of it seems to me to be way too much information for my purposes. But as the hippie activist and clown Wavy Gravy put it, "As I told my mirror this morning, it's all done with people." You betcha. I'm an intellectual with advanced social science degrees, a concerned citizen trying to do what I can to advance truth, justice, and the potentially sentient way - but ideas and organizations and principles and values and socioeconomic systems all live and breathe and have their being in a sea of people. In his book "Money and the Meaning of Life", Jacob Needleman contrasts the viewpoints of the shrink and the spiritual aspirant - the shrink thinks people aren't as wonderful as they kid themselves they are, nor as bad as they secretly fear - whereas the esoteric tradition asserts that they are much worse than they realize, but have the potential to rise to heights they cannot imagine with their currently degraded minds. I think they're both right.

Buzz

6/2/2011 03:41:30 am

Mistah Charley PhD (or is it Dr Charles during biz hrs?),

I've noticed a few of your posts popping up recently on some of the same blogs that I frequent, and in each case your comments appear to add to the quality of the discussion.

I've just recently found Laura's blog, too, and it has already been such a pleasant find. Last week, I read excerpts from her book “Finding Clarity…” and then I read a couple of her articles over the holiday that I found in a men’s health-type blog or mag (I don’t recall which one, specifically). I can’t say that I know her personally, but if she is as smart, witty, and funny as her writing style indicates, she must be a fascinating person whose husband has a true gem. I’m looking forward to getting the e-version of her novel when she releases it. I’m not sure of her timeline, but I’m going to finish Frank Bailey’s book first, which I just downloaded and haven’t looked at yet. I was trying to finish Bush’s memoirs, Decision Points, but I keep getting aggravated, and I’m barely 100 pages in. I’ll grind it out soon though since I can’t handle reading more than 2 books on my plate at one time, given the professional reading I must do. I read a fair amount, usually 30-40 books a year, and non-fiction comprises at least 95% of my reading.

I’m glad Laura has jumped in fairly recently to the Palin blogosphere. No one has any exclusivity on the Palin drama, and since it’s an ongoing saga, it helps to have new blood come in and connect some dots with a fresh and thoughtful perspective. There are some excellent bloggers writing on Palin, and I sense there exists a real camaraderie mutual respect and a willingness to share and collaborate within the community. I've been observing Palin pretty closely since her run for Guv in the fall of 2006. Although Palin's situation is always dynamic--- there's always a cloud of controversy surrounding her--- her pattern of behavior is actually pretty consistent albeit often dysfunctional. In hindsight, Palin's actions and decisions are not as random as they seem to be in real time, and usually based around some of the same (sometimes disturbing) core issues.

It's a pleasure to have your input in the community.

Wholy Mary

6/2/2011 04:08:12 am

test

FEDUP!!!

6/2/2011 04:17:21 am

Since you show that highlighted picture of her from the governors convention, it is even MORE inconceivable that the Alaska Air flight attendants would not have been able 'to see what stage of pregnancy she was in' - IF she had been pregnant - or IF she had been wearing her fake pregnancy belly - which, obviously, she had either packed in her luggage or had left in Texas for someone else (Bri$tol comes to mind at the convention in September) to wear.

FrostyAK

6/2/2011 04:17:58 am

Two things;

1. I was struck by the LN and BS designations. Please find a way to refer to Brad other than BS... thanks.

2. Was that second coat the same one, or a duplicate a couple of sizes larger to accommodate the fake belly (and shoulders), in which the sleeves had to be rolled? For anyone who wants to say she isn't that duplicitous, I say puhleeease...

Cannibal F*ckface

6/2/2011 04:19:48 am

Might I recommend that whenever there's need for a picture of a padded fake preggo. belly that you use the shoplifter dude from the Jane's Addiction "Been Caught Stealing" video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrwjiO1MCVs

Wholy Mary

6/2/2011 04:22:37 am

O.K. sorry about the test. If one of the blogs which is very popular refuses to post some comments because of the owner feeling a responsibility to protect Mercede Johnstone, some damage to our cause can be done. My point is, some facts are just impossible to not believe and therefore when Mercede recently answered gryphen's questions about Sarah's physical state, the answers lead one to think that Mercede didn't know that Sarah faked her pregnancy. And that's impossible to believe at this point.

This leads me to suggest that more emphasis should be put on attempting to establish the reason why Sarah faked it. Not that she did fake it because that's obviously been established.

Some are not willing to say for certain that Bristol was the mother but I am. Therefore, it also becomes important to answer the question of who was the father. From what we know about Bristol's manners and habits, we should be able to come to the conclusion that the father could be anyone. We don't have to elaborate on that fact right now. But knowing the possibilities are endless, we could try to narrow it down in order to determine who the father could have been which would give Sarah and family the incentive to cover it up.

I reject the notion that Sarah claimed the baby as her own in order to have a DS baby on hand to play to the election. The deception is too much trouble for that to be imaginable. But to cover up some very inconvenient facts as to who the mother was and especially who the father was, makes a lot of sense.

So what audience is this blog and other blogs playing to? Not those who haven't yet accepted that Palin faked it but those who are certain that she did. I'm really saying, it's time to move ont to solving the riddle completely in order to finally make sense of it and lay the question to rest for those who know.

If we know in our own minds who the mother is and who the father is then perhaps we will decide to let sleeping dogs lie. I'm not willing to do that but maybe some are. In my opinion it's that sinister.

Alaskan

6/2/2011 04:27:27 am

Actually, Out Of The Closet is elite, high-end and expensive. All name-brand, all designer. One-of-a-kind used clothing discounted slightly off of retail price. $200 jeans for $120. Cashmere coats for $300 instead of $600. Nothing in the store is cheap and it's not meant to be!
It's been since renamed, because they were sued for using the name, which belongs to a California business.
Thanks to Sarah.

SLQ

6/2/2011 04:32:35 am

Brad & Laura, you should put up a side-by-side pic of the padded should and $arah before the fake pregnancy and even now, showing how narrow her shoulders actually are!

Yellowgirl

6/2/2011 04:37:01 am

I'd gladly pay the cost for someone to buy and wear the belly. It needs to be someone built like Sarah, and I think we'd all like to see pics in similar jacket-type clothes. Anyone game??

Wholy Mary

6/2/2011 04:38:21 am

Yes, I do know who the mother and father are but am unable to tell you straight out because of inexplicable reasons. Please work on it and it will all make sense.

alexis

6/2/2011 04:45:41 am

@Wholy Mary

What do you owe Sarah to keep this a secret?

SunnyVee

6/2/2011 04:48:10 am

Just to chime in here -
My reaction to these pics was to agree with "FrostyAK." It seems like a larger
size of the same jacket, and that the
longer sleeves were rolled to hide that they are way too long.

...not that that means much. Nothing surprises me anymore from this woman.

Palintologist

6/2/2011 04:48:41 am

@Wholy Mary

If Bristol is the mother would that make Todd the father? If true send another test message.

alexis

6/2/2011 04:54:00 am

I've always thought the parents are Todd and Mrs. Johnston

KatieAnnieOakley

6/2/2011 05:19:07 am

Wholy Mary complains that Gryphen is being selective in his posts and chooses to protect Mercede by not sharing some information that she may or may not be able to share (due to promised threats to family members... as she has alluded to in the past?) or that she "claims" she didn't / doesn't know about.

Bottom line, it's his blog.

Then Wholy Mary entices this blog with "I know who the parents of Trig are." -
but can't tell us right now "for her own reasons."

Can't play it both way, Mary... seems you're being disingenuous while at the same time criticizing others for the same type of behavior.

The reason the blogs and more and more people in the media are cooperating?

Because we all feel $arah is a national security risk (indeed - WORLD SECURITY THREAT) and cannot ever be allowed to get near the nuclear codes, or to have any impact in any government ever again.

It is an extraordinary effort to better the country and the world. Imagine for one moment if all the media outlets world-wide worked together for the good of everyone?

Me neither. That's why it IS so unusual that most everyone that's anti-Palin works together. And every day, we inch forward.

But leave the games at the door. This is serious business we have going here!

Tiffany

6/2/2011 05:40:31 am

When I was 7 months pregnant not only could I not lean forward or cross my legs there was also no possible way I would have been able to wear zip up knee high boots.

Brad Scharlott

6/2/2011 05:42:33 am

OK, I'm now convinced there was more than one black jacket - thanks to Blueberry Tart for sending ample photographic evidence to me. And for catching the missing button.

Gryphen linked to this post of Laura's. An anonymous commenter there said this:

"One give-away to me is that she did not even bother to buy some cute maternity tops, just some big droopy scarves. How lazy and cheap is that?"

That is SO true.

Mhurka

6/2/2011 06:00:03 am

The outline of the bra cups looks very rigid and mold-like-like that seen in the maternity costume.

Wholy Mary

6/2/2011 06:43:10 am

Katie Annie Oakley, You have me wrong. I'm not bashing on Gryphen. I'm only making it clear that Gryphen's chat with Mercede and her mother leads some to believe that from Mercede's answers and her mother's answers, they aren't aware of Sarah's faked pregnancey. Simply stated, if Mercede says she doesn't notice the signs that she was asked about then she didn't know. And that's not true. Sarah, Todd, Mercede, Sherrey, Willow, Track, Bristol, Levi, Sarah's parents, Frank Bailey, Gusty, Dr. L...., CBJ, and I know. There could be a couple of others. I can't say who Dr. L..... is right now either.

In my humble opinion, Gryphen is being led down the garden path and that's damaging to our cause. Only through those in the know will we ever establish to the MSM and the people of America that Sarah faked. What else matters?

Please work on this and forget the emphasis on proving over and over again that Sarah 'isn't' the mother.

I repeat, I can't say who the father and mother are but I can make it clear that Palin faked the pregnancy. If that doesn't convince people that I'm not a Palin supporter then I'm sorry but I can do no more at this point in time.

BfromC

6/2/2011 06:47:12 am

Thank you, Brad & Laura, for having this discussion. I spent a few hours a couple weeks ago taking a new look at those Newsweek videos. You provide the You Tube link, but I studied all of them on the actual Newsweek site.

here (a couple at the bottom of the search page - dated 8/28/08. All are dated that date - apparently Newsweek decided to post all of it after Palin was announced, even though the event they were shot at was in March):
http://www.newsweek.com/search.html?time=any&order=date&start=50&q=Sarah+Palin&type=video

and here (the whole page is from the March event):
http://www.newsweek.com/search.html?time=any&order=date&start=60&q=Sarah+Palin&type=video

These were all labeled Palin. I searched through to see if there were any marked Napolitano, to see if there were some focusing on Janet speaking, to observe Palin just sitting next to her. But all of the videos from this event seem to focus on Palin, naturally.

You know, before the true madness/mental illness set it, Palin could come off as somewhat normal when she spoke. She could perhaps have a few intelligent conversations. Reading Bailey's book, even some of her early emails sound like she can put full sentences and thoughts together, at least. But that ability is long gone. It's that darn lamestream media to blame, dontcha know.

Sarah, you are completely incapable of any leadership now, and God needs to slam that big door shut on you right now.

Wholy Mary

6/2/2011 06:47:39 am

Sorry again, I should have also said that I don't know who Dr. L...... is right now. And I don't know if there is any significance in the number of dots. Only that, that's the way it came to me from the person who knows.

Do take heart that this 'will' be broken open in time. There is no doubt about that but it won't be when it will be politically damaging for Sarah Palin. That I'm sorry about too.

BfromC

6/2/2011 07:06:27 am

Wholy Mary -- a question --

Above you seem to say that Bristol IS the mother with the following statement:

"Some are not willing to say for certain that Bristol was the mother but I am."

Then in the more recent comment you say you can't say who the mother is.

To keep us interested and potential believing what you might know, you'd better clear that up!

Cory

6/2/2011 07:24:50 am

Todd Palin Spits on US Veterans, America and the Flag!

1995: Todd Palin changed his voter registration to AIP. Except for an interruption of a few months, he would remain registered as an AIP member until 2002, when he changed his registration to undeclared.

AIP is a fringe political party, one that advocates the secession of Alaska from the Union.

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions”, AIP founder, Joe Vogler. "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag. “

Vogler was killed before he could give a blistering Anti-United States speech at the UN. His speech was sponsored by the Government of Iran.
Salon reports:
Vogler's greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska's freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue.

During the 1990s, when Mark Chryson directed the AIP, Sarah Palin lent her support to Chryson's crusade to alter the Alaska Constitution's language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. "It took over 10 years to get that language written in," Chryson said. "But Sarah was there supporting it."

"Every time I showed up her door was open," said Chryson. "And that policy continued when she became governor."

Todd Palin would remain registered as an AIP member until 2002.
In the Palin administration, Todd appears to have had an unusually strong role, the extent of which remains unclear. He is not on the state payroll and was never elected -- but the First Dude has crossed over from the standard-issue supportive political spouse to something far more influential, weighing in on policy and political matters in ways that few observers seem to understand. His apparent influence in his wife's administration -- some in Alaska have referred to him as the "shadow governor" -- has raised questions about whether a Sarah Palin vice-presidency would hand the same type of backstage power to Todd, and what that might mean in the running of the U.S. government.

Susan

6/2/2011 08:04:54 am

Susan

6/2/2011 08:17:47 am

Wholy Mary you have implied that the liason resulting in the child we know as Trig was sinister. That would IMO imply rape or incest.

I love this blog and the careful, and thorough approach to uncovering this deceit. I wish I thought that the end was in sight...but today my impatience and frustration is just fuel for one gigantic headache. Thanks everyone for your due diligence, and continued quest for the truth.

Bobcat Logic

6/2/2011 09:10:28 am

@ Cory

Thanks for bringing up the AIP, it's ties to Iran and, perhaps, other mid-East governments. I think this may be a critical part of the background (and perhaps some of the foreground) of the Palin Hoax.

I'm also wondering what ever happened to "Drop Zone" Bill -- the guy who "turned" informant (or turned out to be an FBI agent), and has since been put in a witness protection program, and may soon be giving a press conference (according to IM).

I'm wondering, too, about AIP ties to recent right-wing, racist, anti-abortion acts of terrorism around the country, and to various extremist militia and/or religious groups. There have been a number of arrests, but not much follow-up coverage in the media.

@ Wholy Mary

It just seems too convenient to me, and way too coincidental, that a Down Syndrome child was born to Bristol (or whomever in that family group) -- a DS child that would serve as the perfect campaign prop to bring the wavering Fundamentalist base out to vote for McCain.

Palin's handlers often proclaimed that Trig was the most important reason to vote for Palin and the GOP. Trig was put there for a reason, for sure!

And Palin knew she wouldn't be stuck with Trig when he was no longer needed as a campaign prop.

Is Trig traveling on the bus now? now that he's no longer cute and manageable? Now that they can no longer play Madonna and Child? Who really takes care of him now, I wonder?

And, if Palin really believes she on a Mission from God to help usher in end times (as she has indicated on several occasions), why worry about the long-term care of a handicapped child? They'll all be raptured up soon enough.

viola

6/2/2011 09:13:04 am

Wholy Mary, What about Sherry's ex-husband (Mercede/Levi's dad)? Did he know about the hoax?

Liza

6/2/2011 09:14:44 am

Wholy Mary-

I'm truly sorry if this is undeserved, but at the moment your comments are just REEKNG of know-nothing shit-stirrer.

You say that Bristol IS the mother? Then two minutes later you "cannot say" who the mother and father are?

You don't know how to spell Sherry's name?

And most alarming to me...you state several times to just "work it out". How on earth are we supposed to WORK IT OUT...simply because you SAY to? How can you have ANY reasonable expectation of this being "worked out"...when you yourself are unwilling to provide even a crumb, a tiny shred, of new or concrete information?

You need to do a LITTLE better, Mary. Or you'll get written off as a troll. Surely you understand it's not realistic for everyone to take what you say as the gospel truth? I mean, give us SOMETHING, anything, on which to pin your credibility.

Until you are willing and able to prove what you say in at least some small way, it appears to me you are just trying to "start something"...not the least of which is a smear campaign against Gryphen.

Cory

6/2/2011 09:34:10 am

@Bobcat & All:

"Babygate" is true; the photographic evidence is beyond reproach...

However, I have realized that it will NOT be "Babygate" that is the final straw for PALIN. Did you see those bikers, etc. at the Rolling Thunder rally? They and many, many others do NOT want to even THINK about SP's baby "parts" etc.

But her using our VETERANS to gain votes when she and Todd were very willing supporters, and favored recipients of, the AIP, well, that is something that EVERY AMERICAN needs to know about this fraud.

The Alaskan Independence Party: their MAIN goal is SUCESSION from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

The AIP want NO PART of the "lower 48". The same "lower 48" that gave us the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Civil Rights for African Americans and women. This "lower 48" that was almost ripped completely apart during the Civil War; thousands and thousands died for the greater vision of a UNION of STATES. Later, our UNION fought together as a NATION in the WORLD WARS, proving again and again to the world what a tremendous country the USA was.

Sarah and Todd Palin have proven, time and time again, in their political actions, their "associations", that they are "American" when the "lower 48" has the cameras on them. But the truth is, they FOUGHT to have AK SECEDE from our AMAZING United States of America. The exact same USA that our Vets died to preserve, and Sarah Palin has suddenly hijacked in an attempt to tell US how to be AMERICAN!

If you care about our veterans, if you care about America, you MUST help spread the TRUTH about the anti-US Palins!

My grandfather (WWII vet, Bronze Star recipient, deceased) can not thank you, so I will on his behalf.

Brad Scharlott

6/2/2011 09:45:21 am

A comment from Gryphen's post linking to this conversation:

IBCLC said...
Gryphen, I am an international board certified lactation consultant. I knew Palin's pregnancy and birth tale was bogus based solely upon the complete lack of evidence concerning breastfeeding.

Although she spoke often of a breast pump, in ALL her 2008 campaign travels there is never any footage of one being carried- by her or anyone else. I am familiar with every major market brand of pump plus many of the more obscure brands sold in the UK. I have gone over the photos and footage with a very careful eye- she never carried a breast pump.

And trust me when I say this, Gryphen...you do not let yourself get separated from your pump when you have a sixteen week old infant who is apparently in the midst of the most intense baby growth spurt ever...if the baby in these photos with the Johnstons on Levi's birthday and the moosebaby at the RNC 12-13 weeks later are alleged to be the same child.

You just DON'T. Period.

Ask any nursing mother who is wearing a $1600 suit fresh from Neiman's...how far away she would get from her pump. I guaran-damn-tee you the answer would be "NOT far".

However, I did notice one interesting item- in many of the photos where Bristol or Willow is feeding the baby, they are using Medela bottles. Which come with Medela breast pumps. So SOMEONE on that trip was pumping milk for that infant. Medela bottles are expensive and you would not buy them to use with formula. As usual, I think Palin is appropriating someone else's truth. In this case the most obvious choice would be one of her daughters.

For ANY nursing moms out there, present or past...how long were you able to go without pumping or nursing your baby in the first six months? How many of you think you could have done hours-long interviews and appearances without leaking everywhere?

That's what I thought.

And while Sarah never once needed to be excused on the campaign trail or in her office before the campaign, apologetically saying "I'll just be a few minutes" and slinging her pump bag over her shoulder...I do recall hearing Sarah and Todd mention that "our oldest daughter and the baby are on the bus" during campaign stops.

Again I state the obvious, especially in conjunction with Bristol's ridiculously padded to keep from leaking bosom--

SOMEONE ON THAT TRIP WAS PROVIDING BREASTMILK TO THAT CHILD.

Brad Scharlott

6/2/2011 10:40:02 am

Another comment from Gryphen's post linking to this conversation:

The following was taken from an article from the Huffington Post written in 2008:-

'Palin was attending a conference in Dallas when her water broke.

Gov. Palin's opted to board a jet from Dallas in April while about to deliver a child. Gov. Palin, who was eight months pregnant, says she felt a few contractions shortly before she was to give a keynote speech to an energy summit of governors in Dallas. But she says she went ahead with it after her doctor in Alaska advised her to put her feet up to rest. "I was not going to miss that speech," she says.

She rushed so quickly from the podium afterwards that Texas Gov. Rick Perry nervously asked if she was about to deliver the baby then. She made it to the airport, and gave birth hours after landing in Anchorage to Trig, who is diagnosed with Down Syndrome. "Maybe they shouldn't have let me fly, but I wasn't showing much so they didn't know," she says.'

---------------------------
Sarah said she wasn't showing much.... WTF... If she thinks she wasn't showing much in that April 13th. picture with her hands clasped over that huge baby bump, she really is insane. There's no way airline personnel could miss seeing that.

2:10 PM

Search4more

6/2/2011 11:10:56 am

A few people in the comments have said they want someone of a similar build to Palin to buy a fake belly and model it. That would be fun, but I think what would be much more damning would be to get a 7 month pregnant woman (of a similar build to Palin) to copy Palin's movements in the various videos.

It's not enough just to say that Palin couldn't have moved in that way if pregnant. You have to really spoon feed people. It's hard to change people's minds. ...Also I don't think It's enough to get a 7 month pregnant woman to do it. Also get a 5 and a 6 month pregnant woman to do it. Show the 7 month woman first and then when the doubters come back saying that the woman you chose is abnormally big show the others to them.

---------------

I was wondering if any Photogrammetry (finding positions of points in 3D from multiple photos) has been used by anyone in the anti Palin blogs? I doubt there are enough useful photos taken at the same time to do it and it's quite complicated.

....hm. Probably pointless bringing it up. It's just that in theory you could use photos from the 2008 campaign to measure the length of all of Palin's limbs and stuff and then make a model of her. then you could pose the model and do all sorts of interesting things with it. If there were pictures of her whilst "pregnant" taken from different angles or where the camera is still but she is turning round in each shot you could maybe discern something. "How far did the bump stick out at this time versus that time?" -for example. ....Anyway, wickedly complicated and it's unlikely the right photos exist to do it. ....I guess if that many photos existed you wouldn't need fancy 3D software to prove it. People would just see it for themselves.

Bobby

6/2/2011 11:19:07 am

Wholly Mary,

No one knows who you are here. So, stop the riddles and spew out what you seem to be dieing to say. Use a different name if you must but, who the hell is Trigg's daddy? What is the story here?

Could Bristol really be that good a poster child for Alaska by having a baby by a father and a son???

We know Bristol is his mom. How did Sarah convince Bristol (and Levi!) to go along with this charade?

Stop the ride, it's time to spew.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/2/2011 11:58:58 am

@Wholy Mary, I hope you will not be discouraged by some of the responses to your comments. I believe I know what you are referring to, as it is what I have believed since April 2009.

Can you clarify 4, 5 or 6 dots, please?

alexis

6/2/2011 12:02:33 pm

@ProChoiceGrandma

what have you believed since April 2009?

Brad Scharlott

6/2/2011 12:08:35 pm

Again, a commenter from Gryphen's - this seems totally plausible:

Anonymous said...
Shitfire, I've held my tongue long enough. I'm going to share a few details I have been keeping under my hat because I thought even if I posted "Anonymous", it could still be traced back to me. I have done a bit of research and decided it's worth the risk if these little tidbits of information aid in the investigation for any bloggers, authors, et al.

First of all, I am NOT part of the Palin family. I work in the healthcare field and that is how I know what I'm about to share. Please respect my severe anxiety and trepidation about posting and do not ask where I work, my exact position, or other questions whose answers would only serve to immediately identify me.

This is what I know- you can take it or leave it, believe it or write it off. I'm only sharing at this point because I simply cannot believe this ridiculous farce is still...well, a ridiculous farce.

1. Trig was born two months earlier than stated by the Palins. He was NOT born at Mat Su. Keep in mind the only way I could state certainly where he was NOT born...is to know where he WAS born.

2. Trig was not hurriedly released from hospital care, necessitating what is often called "the wild ride". I believe (this is just my perception, not a "fact") Sarah Palin planned the Wild Ride well in advance as it served two purposes: she didn't have to worry about trying to look pregnant in formal attire at the evening function that night in Texas, and it allowed her the perfect cover story here in Alaska- everyone wakes up and voila, the governor's had her baby.

3. Trig that was born AS Trig (meaning the "first" Trig) did indeed have an ear deformity. In my professional opinion, it is highly unlikely the infant presented at the Republican National Convention was the "original" Trig.

4. Cathy Baldwin Johnson WAS present at the delivery of Trig in February 2008. Sarah Palin was NOT present.

5. Tripp Johnston was also NOT born at Mat Su.

6. Tripp Johnston was not born until five weeks after his announced birth.

7. IF Mercede and Levi Johnston visited Bristol and an infant at Mat Su in December...it was 100% staged. I do not feel this was the case- I (again, this is just my opinion) feel the Johnstons were strong-armed by the Palins. I believe Mercede and Levi both signed nondisclosure agreements and possibly took payoffs.

Comment too long for blogger, will post remainder in next comment.
4:32 PM
Anonymous said...
I am 100% certain Mercede nor Levi could have been present at Tripp Johnston's birth in "December"...because Tripp Johnston was **NOT** born on any day in December.

I can state with certainty that Dr. Cathy Baldwin Johnson was initially duped into this hoax and then blackmailed to continue it. She remains conflicted and torn about whom she is best serving by keeping quiet.

I can state with certainty that Dar Miller, the sweet and lovely woman who perished in a suspicious house fire in 2008 was ASKED to assist in caring for Trig. I do not know whether she ever considered or accepted the job. I cannot stand to think that her death was the result of a purposeful act. However, I find it extremely suspicious that any attempt to access records or evidence of the house fire (which should be public record if the case was ruled accidental death and closed) are met with what I can only describe as inappropriately aggressive stonewalling.

I can state with absolute certainty that virtually the only thing completely destroyed beyond repair in the arson fire at the church was several file cabinets filled with files related to births, adoptions, and foster care placements. Considering these were metal file cabinets, the arsonist must have opened the drawers and poured or placed an accelerant IN them.

As with the fire that claimed Dar Miller's life, any attempt to obtain evidentiary reports or investigative statements on this incident are met with complete and volatile obfuscation.

Lastly, I know it to be medically impossible for Sarah Palin to have become pregnant after 2002. The procedure she had made it impossible for a reversal to be performed. I have seen several pages relating to these medical records including an anesthesiologist's report and a perfusionist's stand-by report. (indicating his services were not needed)

I find it frustratingly impossible that so few people recognize something is wrong with this narrative as the Palins tell it. Why "out" Bristol rather than just showing Trig's birth certificate? I of course know Sarah can't show what she does not have, but why don't MORE people recognize this?

The above statements are the sum total of what I know. Please do not tell me it's my "duty" to Alaska or America to "go public". As much as I would like to say "screw it" and purge my soul to Gryphen...the image of Dar Miller's sweet smile makes itself seen in my head. And I think...it's too awful to even consider...but WHAT IF...what IF tha

Bobby

6/2/2011 12:27:55 pm

"what if tha"???

Nooooooooooooo.........

Come back to the light Brad....

dmoreno

6/2/2011 12:54:57 pm

Keep up the good work everyone, sounds like we are getting close to ending the escalating insanity called $paylin.

Anon

6/2/2011 01:08:27 pm

What Wholy Mary and Prochoice Grandma are alluding to is the indelicate assumption that the child is the product of incest. That is what is meant by "work it out" because it is an unpleasant business to state in this forum.

Sherryn

6/2/2011 01:20:09 pm

I've been following Sarah Palin since a few weeks before McCain announced her as his running mate. I had an inkling he would choose a female, and began researching female republicans, my jaw literally dropped when he introduced her.
She just looked way too "put together" for a post partum woman. She recently said in one speech Trig was born in Anchorage, when she originally said MatSu.
The "suit" could easily be stuffed into the overhead bin or under the seat, thus explaining how no one on the plane realized she was pregnant, and I'm sure she used her credentials to get around inconvenient matters like airport security.
Laura, you're doing a great job with your blog, I'm so grateful you've joined the blogosphere, it brings us closer to get this covered and uncovered in the press, as it should be. America, and the world needs to know the real Sarah Palin or we're destined to make the same mistake.

6/2/2011 01:33:18 pm

i'd like to add to the breastfeeding conversation. That Palin could bf a preemie newborn and still get dolled up to go to the office 3 days after the birth is ludicrous.

I had a 35 week preemie who was able to go home with me 48 hrs after birth. She was on a 2-hour feeding schedule for a week. That isn't 2 hours between feedings. That is 2 hours from the start of one feeding to the start of the next one. She was only taking 1/2 oz at a time, how long could that take? Would you believe it took 90 minutes? I had to spend 45 minutes trying to wake my baby, then it took her 45 minutes to eat. I had 30 minutes to sleep before I'd have to wake up and start all over again.

That little sleep, even for 4-5 days, takes a toll. It took me 4 days to even remember I had teeth, never mind remember to brush them. There is no way I would have lost my precious sleep to shower, do my hair, dress up, and drive to the office. Even sleeping every second I could, I was groggy. My child was 2 1/2 weeks old before I was able to sleep 3 hours *in a row*.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/2/2011 01:43:17 pm

Anon @ 20:08, yes, that is exactly what I mean, I just don't know if Laura would allow that discussion. No, not Todd.

Bobcat Logic

6/2/2011 01:47:37 pm

The case laid out by the poster on IM and quoted above by Brad Scharlott is all too likely!
(And I thank that brave medical/clerical professional who came forward!)

It may all tie in with the previous conversation Cory and I were having about the AIP, and their militia co-horts.

Recent arrests in Alaska involved a guy named Schaeffer Cox, who, with various co-conspirators, was planning to fire bomb the houses of judges and others who had aided in their various arrests and prosecutions for a variety of (usually somewhat petty) crimes.The idea was to kill the judges and their families by burning them to death.

These people are linked to a group called "Sovereign Citizens" (featured on 60 Minutes just a few weeks ago).

Other "Sovereign Citizens" are being arrested around the country for similar behavior, so I think something big may be coming down soon.

I wonder if "Drop Zone" Bill (and his many clients), Joe Miller (Sarah's Senate Candidate), and, perhaps, the Palins themselves, might have some felonious exposure here?

Stay tuned.

pvaz

6/2/2011 02:08:01 pm

Is DR L...... susan lemagie, ob/gyn. palmer ak.

mistah charley, ph.d.

6/2/2011 02:19:05 pm

The dramatic anonymous 4:32 posting from Gryphen's blog, reposted here by Brad Scharlott, may be authentic, but it lacks explicitness on a very important point: who gave birth to Trig? Was it Bristol, as seems likeliest and as the narrative arc re Tripp's falsified birthdate implies? I would like to see the identity of the birth mother flatly stated - at least in terms of Bristol/not Bristol/don't know.

emrysa

6/2/2011 02:36:55 pm

thank you for highlighting the newsweek video. this has always been the "nail in the coffin" for me. there is absolutely no way that woman is 7 months pregnant - or even 6 or 5 months pregnant. just not possible.

thank you for continuing this conversation. the quitter is a fraud and her continued favorable media coverage and bank account do not speak well of america.

emrysa

6/2/2011 02:39:50 pm

and brad thank you for the photo evidence. great work!

Hidto

6/2/2011 02:40:16 pm

Imo, the anon poster is either CBJ herself (unlikely) or a fake. The poster states Definitively that CBJ is being blackmailed. If CBJ is being blackmailed, do you really think she's going to tell anyone?

Jewels

6/2/2011 02:41:15 pm

Continuation of "shitfire" from IM

but WHAT IF...what IF that is what happens to people who "know too much" about the pregnancies and babies claimed by the Palin family? WHAT if?

So I apologize for not being "public"...and I know there will certainly be many of you who don't believe me. I don't fault you for it, after all the red herrings Sarah herself has pitched out. But to ease my own burden, I'm putting this out here...in hopes an author or researcher can put it together with what THEY know...and perhaps shut down this disgusting lie machine Sarah Palin...once and for all.

One final detail I neglected to mention- Frank KNOWS the absolute truth. He pulled many strings and made many inquiries near the time of Trig's ACTUAL birth. I of course can't day exactly what he knows, but I know he's 100% aware that Sarah Palin did NOT give birth to anything in April of 2008...except for a hundred pound LIE.

Susan

6/2/2011 02:50:02 pm

Pro choice Grandma....Track?

Floyd M. Orr link

6/2/2011 02:56:47 pm

Mistah Charley, I think what you are confused about concerning the birth mother is that Ruffles is not the Trig everyone saw at the RNC in '08. Although I have never claimed to definitively know, my best guess has always been that Bristol is the mother of Ruffles, not RNC Trig. Anon 4:32 may be speaking of the currently anonymous birth mother of the second Trig, not the first.

Jewels

6/2/2011 03:03:07 pm

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/bess/index.html?source=newsletter

Soon after the book controversy, Bess found himself again at odds with Palin and her fellow evangelicals. In 1996, evangelical churches mounted a vigorous campaign to take over the local hospital's community board and ban abortion from the valley. When they succeeded, Bess and Dr. Susan Lemagie, a Palmer OB-GYN, fought back, filing suit on behalf of a local woman who had been forced to travel to Seattle for an abortion. The case was finally decided by the Alaska Supreme Court, which ruled that the hospital must provide valley women with the abortion option.

 one point during the hospital battle, passions ran so hot that local antiabortion activists organized a boisterous picket line outside Dr. Lemagie's office, in an unassuming professional building across from Palmer's Little League field. According to Bess and another community activist, among the protesters trying to disrupt the physician's practice that day was Sarah Palin.

mistah charley, ph.d.

6/2/2011 03:05:20 pm

[A COMMENT FROM EARLIER IN THIS THREAD]
Hidto
Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:40:16
Imo, the anon poster is either CBJ herself (unlikely) or a fake. The poster states Definitively that CBJ is being blackmailed. If CBJ is being blackmailed, do you really think she's going to tell anyone? [END OF EARLIER COMMENT]

An excellent point. Too bad - I'd hoped we had someone who knew who would say what they knew, if not how they knew or who they were. Not this time, apparently. There's a song by Utopia, the band including Todd Rundgren, called "Shinola":

Everyone's talking but few of them know
The rest are pretending - they put on a show
And if there's a secret, I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy - the easy part's shit

Viola

6/2/2011 03:06:37 pm

I totally believe Wholy Mary and Shitfire (the IM commenter). Maybe I'm desperate, but both voices have the ring of truth to them, in totally different ways. And regarding the violence that keeps AKers quiet: about a year ago when I first told my husband the Palin saga, his first words were "organized crime." Only mafia or mafia-like enforcers produce that kind of fear, he said. So somebody's working for Sarah, he told me. I've never doubted it.

BadlandsAK

6/2/2011 03:10:13 pm

@Search4more

When I was first introduced to babygate, I had a newborn, so everything about my pregnancy was very fresh in my mind.
But I have recently had another baby, and I can tell you that when I was about 6 months pregnant, I came across the Newsweek interview on one of the blogs and automatically tried to reproduce sitting/leaning forward/crossing legs, pretty much to no avail.
Those who have been pregnant say no way can you do any of those things at 7 months, and they would be correct. I could kind of cross my legs, but it was very painful, and I could lean forward a little, but only with knees spread fairly wide.
My conclusion following this experiment:
Sarah, YOU LIE!

6/2/2011 03:21:40 pm

Brad - thanks for posting the long email from the commenter at Gryphen's website. I especially appreciate it as my browser and that website do not get along.

First, the details ring absolutely true. Including the bit about Sarah not wanting to purchase more maternity clothes for the RGA reception!

Second, there are details which are frightening. I did not realize a death may have been involved. And the church fire is extremely suspicious.

Third, this person's life may already be in danger - as may the lives/reputations of another of other people. The best way to protect these people from the Palins' vicious cover-up is to break the cover. Once the truth is out in such a way as it can no longer be "refudiated" (perhaps that word should be redefined as lying while denying) - many people, including this health-care worker, will be safer.

Unfortunately, unless one of the principals speak, I can't think of a way to legally get at this information. And illegal means obviously are extremely risky, especially for certain individuals.

tangled webs and too many trigs

6/2/2011 03:26:07 pm

Floyd, our 4:32 informant states in point 3 that "original Trig" has the ear deformity, and presents a conclusion - "my professional opinion" - rather than firsthand knowledge - about "RNC Trig."

The answer to "whose baby is this?" depends on which baby you're pointing to at the time. But even if the role of Trig has been played by multiple children, what matters for the purpose of establishing the unfitness of Sarah Palin as a political figure in American public life is that SHE is not the birth mother, and yet she claimed she was. Ruffles, RNC, who's the daddy - these are details. Even whether Bristol is the mother of Trig is a detail - but is it a detail that our informant claims to know? It's not a detail specified in the account which appears here.

tangled webs and too many trigs 2

6/2/2011 03:31:57 pm

I meant to sign the comment above.

mistah charley, ph.d.

SLQ

6/2/2011 03:41:51 pm

"Imo, the anon poster is either CBJ herself (unlikely) or a fake. The poster states Definitively that CBJ is being blackmailed. If CBJ is being blackmailed, do you really think she's going to tell anyone?"

I disagree. I've worked closely with high-level people, and you see things. You know things. CBJ would have been upset. She would have received phone calls that could be overheard, or received e-mails that could be seen by subordinates. There could have been loud confrontations in her office or at the hospital. Nothing is ever truly "secret."

ProChoiceGrandma

6/2/2011 03:51:21 pm

"Shitfire" (for want of another name besides the numerous anonymous posters) has posted another long comment at IM:

Thank you all so much for the amazing reception to my massive mind-fart. I really did just feel like I would burst if I didn't get some things in the open.

For the people who asked "who are the parents"...due to my job, there are certain medical specificities which I don't feel comfortable speaking about. What I feel VERY free to speak of: anyone who is NOT the parents. And I know at this point nobody even needs to hear it...but Sarah Palin did not give birth to ANY child in 2008. I have seen hard copies of documents which leave absolutely NO room to even consider that Sarah was pregnant at any time after 2002.

For the person who asked about Trig's state at birth:
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Trig was NOT diagnosed with Down syndrome pre-natally. Period. In fact his condition wasn't known for a few weeks due to his startling prematurity. At the time of his birth, they were told that he could be blind, deaf, have cerebral palsy, and a host of other issues. I believe once his survival wasn't so precarious, he was tested more definitively for a number of syndromes.

I cannot say whether babies were switched or swapped...although I certainly have my suspicions...but the "original" Trig did have Down syndrome. I know when it was time for Trig's birth certificate to be issued...there was a skirmish over whose name(s) would be on it. Wish I could elaborate more but I just don't know enough of the details firsthand.

ProChoiceGrandma, I have always meant to tell you how your amazing levelheaded and logical commentary is so refreshing and I just love it. .

I have lost many hours of sleep over Dar. I just always come back to "please God, it just CAN'T be". But like you, I also have to recognize that, as you say, people have done much worse...for much smaller "goldmines".

For the person asking if I'd contact Joe McGuinnis and share what I know. Short answer? No, I won't. He has not provided a "black and white" stance on what he believes about Trig's parentage and birth. He has dropped some clues, yes...but not the booming declaration I've hoped for.

Truthfully, if I was going to "spill"... It would be to Gryphen. But I simply don't feel confident about that yet.

ProChoiceGrandma: one more thing...Dr. Baldwin Johnson has never claimed authorship of the cobbled together election-eve letter. That is really all I can say, but it's enough to make the point, I think.

8:45 PM

Follow up from 4:32 Informant

6/2/2011 03:55:49 pm

The following went up at Gryphen's blog. This post, plus SLQ's response to the issue of "who would know if CBJ was being blackmailed", leads me to believe that we have a knowledgeable and truthful witness here. It looks like we're getting somewhere, but it's even a less nice neighborhood than we suspected.

Courage.

[and yes, I intend this last word to remind some of Dan Rather, who lost his job, but not his life, as a result of his digging around - Karl Rove arranged for him to find some poisoned meat]

mistah charley, ph.d.

========================

Anonymous said...

Thank you all so much for the amazing reception to my massive mind-fart. I really did just feel like I would burst if I didn't get some things in the open.

For the people who asked "who are the parents"...due to my job, there are certain medical specificities which I don't feel comfortable speaking about. What I feel VERY free to speak of: anyone who is NOT the parents. And I know at this point nobody even needs to hear it...but Sarah Palin did not give birth to ANY child in 2008. I have seen hard copies of documents which leave absolutely NO room to even consider that Sarah was pregnant at any time after 2002.

For the person who asked about Trig's state at birth:
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Trig was NOT diagnosed with Down syndrome pre-natally. Period. In fact his condition wasn't known for a few weeks due to his startling prematurity. At the time of his birth, they were told that he could be blind, deaf, have cerebral palsy, and a host of other issues. I believe once his survival wasn't so precarious, he was tested more definitively for a number of syndromes.

I cannot say whether babies were switched or swapped...although I certainly have my suspicions...but the "original" Trig did have Down syndrome. I know when it was time for Trig's birth certificate to be issued...there was a skirmish over whose name(s) would be on it. Wish I could elaborate more but I just don't know enough of the details firsthand.

ProChoiceGrandma, I have always meant to tell you how your amazing levelheaded and logical commentary is so refreshing and I just love it. .

I have lost many hours of sleep over Dar. I just always come back to "please God, it just CAN'T be". But like you, I also have to recognize that, as you say, people have done much worse...for much smaller "goldmines".

For the person asking if I'd contact Joe McGuinnis and share what I know. Short answer? No, I won't. He has not provided a "black and white" stance on what he believes about Trig's parentage and birth. He has dropped some clues, yes...but not the booming declaration I've hoped for.

Truthfully, if I was going to "spill"... It would be to Gryphen. But I simply don't feel confident about that yet.

ProChoiceGrandma: one more thing...Dr. Baldwin Johnson has never claimed authorship of the cobbled together election-eve letter. That is really all I can say, but it's enough to make the point, I think.
8:45 PM

Jewels

6/2/2011 03:56:42 pm

Dr. Susan Lemagie
was by then the only physician in the state who performed elective abortions after the first 12 weeks

(incidentally, she delivered the first two of Ms. Palin’s five children).
She and the Mat-Su Coalition for Choice sued to overturn the new restrictions.

Wholy Mary

6/2/2011 03:59:18 pm

ProChoiceGrandma, There is no significance in the number of dots. Don't waste your time on it and don't try to find a Dr. L......... in any of the hospitals where you would expect. Dr. L..... is not even an M.D. but is involved in another specialized field of medicine.

I don't care about Gryphen but I do care about people being misled by so many false leads being put forward by some bloggers because they have become nothing but attention whores for the blogosphere.

I am in a position at the moment from which I can't write anymore than you are getting and I will likely be in this position for close to another 8 months. I just am not at liberty to elaborate further because of negative repercussions against me personally. There just happens to be few people who can tell the truth with authority and be believed. This situation will change in time for me too.

Yes, I said that Bristol was the mother and I also said that I wasn't able to say who the mother and father are. That may sound cryptic but it's not meant to be. It's simply the unfortunate manner in which I stated the fact that Bristol is the mother.

You'll be hearing more from me in the near future which will be new information from a source which will be undeniably privileged.

For now, forget the wild ride; it didn't happen. Forget about Palin using a breast pump of any kind. Forget about Palin being seen by anyone trustworthy that would say she was seen pregnant. Forget all theories that dwell on Palin being the mother because that is not true. To dwell on any or all is to backpedal.

Catherine

6/2/2011 04:23:09 pm

When was Track sent to Michigan to live and how long was he there? Dates??

Catherine

6/2/2011 04:36:29 pm

The most sinister think I can think of is that Chuck is the father. Dr L a geneticist or psychologist. If Sarah wanted very badly to cover it up and it's not Todd, then could it be Track or Chuck? Mary listed the people who knew. Unless the father didn't know.
I hope people come forward although if it's that sinister, it does make me sick and I hate saying this but I would feel very badly for Bristol and for Sarah even.

Ginger

6/2/2011 04:39:51 pm

Dear Dr. Scharlott,

May I ask why you never reference the e-mail from the State of Alaska, Benefits Div., dated 5-21-2008, to Gov. Sarah Palin asking for her newborn's birth certificate? Granted, it is probably a form letter the Benefits Div. sends out to mothers who work for the state and have sent in claims for their newborns but have forgotten to send in their child's birth certificate.

The letter stated they needed the b/c within 60 days of the baby's date of birth or, they weren't going to pay "anymore claims." I'd say 30 days had gone by and they were giving the Palins another 30 days. Just because the paperwork was in Sarah's name, doesn't mean she is the birth mother. Dr. CBJ could have taken care of that.

Why won't you or other bloggers take this e-mail into consideration and consider it as evidence as to Trig's birth on April 17/18, 2008?

Please, help me understand why everyone ignores this important piece of evidence.

Thanks...

ProChoiceGrandma

6/2/2011 04:40:24 pm

@Catherine

Track was sent to Portage, Michigan in the fall of 2006 and returned to Wasilla in March 2007 to graduate with his class. Track turned 18 on 4-20-07. Bristol was 16 1/2 when her half-brother moved back to Wasilla. Track had drug problems, and Bristol allegedly also used drugs.

SLQ

6/2/2011 05:21:12 pm

Based on what Anon 4:32 said (original "Ruffles" Trig was born two months early, in mid-February 2008, he would have been conceived in late July 2007.

Punkinbugg

6/2/2011 05:56:44 pm

Hey Brad and Laura,

Not to nitpick, but I always thought <a href="http://www.palindeception.com/media/supertuesday.jpg">THIS</a> photo, taken with Beth Kerttula on 2/5/08 was called the "Super Tuesday" photo. A total of 24 states participated in that Super Tuesday.

The Los Angeles photos with Janet Napolitano were taken on 3/3/08, which was called Super Tuesday II, and only four states participated. Audrey at Palin Deceptions referred to these as the "Newsweek" or "L.A." pics.

Sorry, I got confused.

My favorite February picture is <a href="http://www.palindeception.com/media/midfeb.gif"THISONE</a>, from 2/15/08. I found that book on Amazon, and a quick look at its measurements meant this lady had a whole lotta LAP in February 2008, for somebody who was 5-6 mos pregnant with her 5th child.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/2/2011 05:59:50 pm

@SLQ

Anon 4:32 said "two months earlier", not two months early.

"1. Trig was born two months earlier than stated by the Palins. He was NOT born at Mat Su. Keep in mind the only way I could state certainly where he was NOT born...is to know where he WAS born."

I firmly believe that Bristol was at least 4 months pregnant when the 9-14-07 First Family photo was taken:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37361020@N07/3440629400/lightbox/

And Bristol's MySpace comment of 5-14-07 stated:
“haha, my mom was asking me who i was on the phone with last night, and she said she heard everything i was saying, now she thinks im pregnant. ahaha, call me later if you’d like. ♥”

Brad Scharlott

6/2/2011 09:30:22 pm

RE:

Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:40:16
Imo, the anon poster is either CBJ herself (unlikely) or a fake. The poster states Definitively that CBJ is being blackmailed. If CBJ is being blackmailed, do you really think she's going to tell anyone? [END OF EARLIER COMMENT]
-----------
"Blackmail" could be a characterization that someone else could apply. If CBJ was "pressured" by Palin to write the letter sent out by McCain campaign, she might tell her very closest professional associates or personal friends, who might then tell a small circle of others. The appearance of the word "blackmail" does not make me think the story is BS.

Molly

6/2/2011 09:36:03 pm

Wow, I'm late to the party. I just want to say a few things in random order. I have always felt that Bristol was padded up at the RNC to make her look more pregnant than she actually was and I also suspected that Tripp was born later than what was stated.

Secondly, Bailey dropped a big hint in his book when he published the picture of Trig with the ruffled ear. So I do believe he knows.

And yes, like PCG, I also believe incest was involved. There was a lot of drug use going on with the Palin kids. CBJ's involvement in a case like that would make sense.

6/2/2011 09:42:54 pm

@Ginger: a reminder that the birth certificate is missing could be sent out at 30 days - or 60 days - or 90 days - or even longer. It is not a indication of when Trig's birth took place.

It is an indication that Sarah is not particularly good with paperwork.

Molly

6/2/2011 09:47:11 pm

Another thought, why are there so few photos of Trig after his "birth" in April up until September. Did someone not want his growth (features) to be recorded.

Also, there was a photo floating around at one time of all the Palin kids at a picnic. Trig was included too. I searched for this photo a few weeks ago and wasn't able to find it. Does anyone have it saved? It may provide a few clues.

6/2/2011 09:49:55 pm

Palin's FORMER OB was Dr. Susan Lemagie

KatieAnnieOakley

6/2/2011 09:50:59 pm

Palin's FORMER OB was Dr. Susan Lemagie...

Bree Palin

6/2/2011 09:57:59 pm

PCGrandma - The first thing that struck me when I read these intriguing comments is that they jibe with your scenario about the weird weekend in Feb.

If I am following this correctly, Wholy Mary suggests we try to figure out who the father is in order to understand why Sarah would go to such an extreme to cover up Bristol's pregnancy. And she suggests that the Johnstons know what is going on here, and that it is sinister enough to warrant extreme action.

After letting this shuffle around in my brain for a bit I landed on Keith Johnston. That would be nasty enough that one would not want to be explaining it to the public. And it would explain SO MUCH about the all of the various Johnstons' involvement in this mess that has been completely inexplicable.

Molly

6/2/2011 10:41:02 pm

Bree, that is a very good point. It would explain the break up of the Johnson marriage. Also, Mercede has made a few slip ups regarding the birth of Trig where she has contradicted herself. Sherry's drug bust may have happened to keep all the Johnstons quiet.

6/2/2011 10:50:00 pm

But would Sarah cover for Keith? Wouldn't she just make Bristol the victim? I am torn between Keith and creepy Chuck....

6/2/2011 10:56:24 pm

I don't think incest - or the elder Johnston - is a necessary ingredient for the situation. Sarah had enough motive to hide Bristol's first pregnancy without its being the result of incest. And she would naturally turn to CBJ as a doctor who she could trust - especially as CBJ has been the Palins' family practitioner for a while.

Then the resentful and irresponsible Bristol (now a spokesperson for abstinence) gets pregnant again, in such a way that Sarah cannot cover for her a second time. So she quickly makes lemonade out of that lemon, saying that Trig must have been hers, right?

And because she lied before, and it's such a bizarre lie (which is part of the reason the press has passed by this story), she has to keep lying and covering up...

Molly

6/2/2011 11:05:03 pm

I'm torn between Keith and Track. If it were Chuck, I don't think Sarah would have him around so much.

I have Bailey's book in front of me and I must admit when I saw the pics of Trig in it I was surprised. I think they are there for a reason. Obviously the one with the ruffled ear shows that the baby Mercedes was holding is the same as the baby Palin is holding. The other pics show Bristol holding Trig and Bailey's son holding Trig. I just can't fathom we he included those.

6/2/2011 11:10:29 pm

I still think that the anon poster 4:32 sounds like she is speaking the truth. The fact that she was particularly supportive of ProChoiceGrandma (who suggests that incest was the motivation for the cover-up) makes me think that it is Chucky. I have been doing some reading to see it there is an incest-Down Syndrome link. Though many websites say no (but do not cite studies), several websites ( including http://www.mpicc.de/ww/en/pub/forschung/forschungsarbeit/gemeinsame_projekte/inzest/inzest_krim.htm ) say that there IS in fact an association:
The result of the study was that 8.7 % of the babies of incestuous relationships had malformations (for instance, cardiac defects or Down’s syndrome) compared to 2.6 % in a control group.

Anonymoose

6/2/2011 11:57:35 pm

I think it's very telling that the only time she isn't wearing a scarf is when she is wearing a fake belly.

Molly

6/3/2011 12:20:33 am

I'm still thinking of the photos of Trig in Bailey's book. Two of them are dated in May. I seem to remember that someone said the photos of Ruffles taken with Mercedes and Levi were taken on Levi's birthday which is in early May. There was a photo with a birthday cake in the background. There is clearly a big difference in Trig's size. He is much smaller in the Levi and Mercedes pics. I think the Johnstons have been telling porkies. I think those pictures were taken on Sarah's birthday which is February 11th.

molly malone

6/3/2011 12:37:13 am

I'm a little puzzled by Anonymous's statement about the arson at Palin's church. What files and papers would a church have that could be damaging to anyone? (Not being critical here, just asking because I don't know.) Weddings, baptisms, and expenditures are about all I can think of. None of which would warrant B & E and arson.

Palin lies so freely I question everything she says and does, which is probably why Bristol's pregnancy with Tripp strikes me as just a little too conveniently well-timed to put rumors of Trig's parentage to rest. Is there solid evidence out there which confirms that Bristol is Tripp's birth mother?

No trying to muddy any waters here, but if Sarah could fake a pregnancy once, she'd have a good idea how to fake another one.

Catherine

6/3/2011 12:41:02 am

No one has mentioned Todd as a possibility? I know it's awful but I am just laying out any male it could bco whuly Mary mentioned all the people who knew. The only males listed are Levi, Track, Todd and Chick. Keith wasn't mentioned. Levi would be the obvious first choice, but that doesn't sound sinister.
Pro-choice Grandma, if you have a theory, put it out there. Haven't you been very involved in resesrching this for years?

Laura Novak link

6/3/2011 12:43:30 am

Thank you all for a fabulous discussion. And for pulling over the comments from IM.

All topics are welcome here. Nothing off limits.

I only ask that people respect one another and different theories and differing opinions. But you've all got that covered anyway. And I thank you for that.

New post with DOC going up Monday.

And to the person who asked why we never mention the email asking for the birth certificate. We do, now in then, in comments. We just haven't done a stand-alone post on it. You're right: It's another critical piece in a very odd puzzle.

Interesting theories put forth here. Look forward to following all leads.

Thank you everyone, Laura

Catherine

6/3/2011 12:45:15 am

Molly, apparently there were adoption records held at the church.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 12:51:49 am

Well hello Bree!!! So excited to see you!

I totally disagree about Keith Johnston. There are many clues why I strongly suspect Track. I will list some here, without most of the links for now.

1. Track was using drugs, and was sent to live far away in Michigan in the Fall of 2006. Not good to have an addict around to influence two younger teen daughters, although Sarah would be more concerned about her newly elected status as Governor.

2. Track returned to Wasilla in March 2007.

3. Track turned 18 (an "adult") on 4-20-07. If he were to impregnate a minor, he could not only be convicted of child sexual abuse/assault, but become listed as a sex offender. How would THAT look on the resume of a potential VP candidate?

4. Track was going to go to college, but suddenly decided to join the Army in September 2007.

5. Bristol was visibly pregnant on 9-14-07 in the First Family photo. Xmas photos were taken on the pretense that Track wouldn't be available later, but those photos were only used in one obscure little AK magazine later. The fact is that Bristol was the one that could not be photographed later.

6. When Track joined the Army, Sarah was not pounding her chest and making royal proclamations, which is soooo out of character for her. Instead, Sharon Leighow made a press release as follows:
“Gov. Palin has declined to comment. The Palin family wants to keep private some aspects of his decision, spokeswoman Sharon Leighow said.”
http://www.adn.com/2007/09/13/220853/governors-son-enlists-on-sept.html
Since when does Sarah Palin not jump at an opportunity to glorify “the troops” and herald with patriotic vitriol the proud fact that her son just joined the Army?? Because she is pissed at him, and unwilling to set aside her fuming anger. That IS her character.

7. Track supposedly had a hockey-career ending shoulder injury, yet he was physically fit to join the Army??

8. Track flew in to Juneau for just the one day, 9-14-07, for the First Family photos, then flew back to Wasilla the same day. Child sex abusers are not allowed to remain under the same roof with their “victim”, and I suspect this was upon the advice, or orders, of CBJ.

9. Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson specializes in child sexual abuse. On her website, it said in all-caps:
“DID YOU KNOW . . . 85% of sexual abusers are related to or known to the child WHICH MEANS THAT MOST CHILDREN ARE SEXUALLY ABUSED BY SOMEONE THEY KNOW AND TRUST !!”

10. Regarding Down syndrome: “Although the risk of having a child with Down syndrome increases with age, a child with Down syndrome can be born to mothers of any age. About 75% of babies with Down syndrome are born to younger women. The chance of a woman under 30 having a baby with Down syndrome is less than 1 in 1,000 and increases to 1 in 400 for women who become pregnant at age 35.”
So the majority of children with DS have been born to women who were NOT older mothers, simply because so many more younger vs. older women actually give birth in any given time period.
I am not entirely convinced that Tri-G actually has Down syndrome, but his appearance of DS would be similar to that of a child born as a result of consanguinity. The mixture of teens, drugs and alcohol equals total lack of judgment and morals, and the consequences are to be expected, especially with kids who have been denied any knowledge of birth control. By not discussing the possibility of incest is to not face reality. Everyone pretends that incest never happens and ignore the fact that mentally retarded children can result from consanguinity. What must all the young victims of incest feel when their plight is ignored and people look the other way because it is too icky to even think that it could happen?

A few links re: Brother/sister incest
http://links.visibli.com/share/d12536
“The old answer was genetics. Germany's high court relied on that argument two years ago when it upheld the conviction of Patrick Stuebing for sex with his sister. Of the four children the couple produced, three had physical or mental disabilities. In general, studies show a significantly higher rate of birth defectsin offspring of incestuous couples. The reason is simple: Every family has genetic flaws, and if you reproduce within your family, you're more likely to get two copies of the flaw—thereby producing the defective trait—instead of acquiring a new, protective allele from another family.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7294022.stm
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/03/siblings-who-ha.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2064227/

11. Look at the numerous times that Sarah could have and should have had her picture taken alongside her soldier son, but didn’t. ODD ODD ODD! Who knows if that is because Sarah can’t stand him for screwing up her political career, or if Track hates her or fears her. No pictures of Sarah and Track toget

6/3/2011 01:13:55 am

ProChoiceGrandma - You make an excellent case for Track being the father. I let my repulsion of Chucky interfere with logic. I always blamed the school bus incident for Track's forced departure, but Willow's B&E had no such repercussions.... so yes, maybe it was something MUCH worse which caused his exodus. With different fathers, Track & Bristol are somewhere between siblings and first cousins genetically....

Lisabeth

6/3/2011 01:24:09 am

Pro choice grandma, interesting and painful to think about for some reason. Can you clarify something for me. When did the vandalizing of the school bus incident take place. Is that why Track was sent to Michigan or why he went into the army.
Also, do we know why he was in the army for only one year?
It is interesting that you rarely see Track with the family in photos. And you would expect to see many photos in his uniform with his parents or just Sarah. Are there any photos like that?

Susan

6/3/2011 01:33:19 am

Faking a pregnancy to sanitize and rewrite an indelicate reality is crazy. IMO, if Trig is the result of an incestuous liason, the secret at the center of the situation, is made even more vulnerable to the risk of public exposure by the very act of illusion staged to protect it. Had we simply been honored with the truth, the Father of Trig could have remained anonymous, and a matter demanding privacy more easily attended to, and the collateral damage minimized.

In light of this possible twist, the absurdity of Palin's manipulations become more clearly, and ridiculously crazy. The consequences of truth, IMO, would be far less damaging and personally painful than the damage wrought when this lie is laid bare.

Where are the men in the white coats when you need them. Someone, please, take her away, America's welfare depends on it.

Catherine

6/3/2011 01:42:03 am

http://tnjn.com/2008/sep/13/track-palin-deploys-to-iraq-am/

I found the above article. I looked at Track Palin photos in " google images" and in the first 30 paged there was not a single photo of him in uniform. Are we sure he went to Iraq? I know this is far fetched, but this is Sarah. Maybe he was sent elsewhere during Vp run as a cover. I bet he did go to Iraq but no photos? Has anyone seen any

Anonymous

6/3/2011 01:47:55 am

If the vandalism of the buses occurred in 2005 as this article states why would it take 3 full years for him to then be sent to Iraq? Something is off

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6892728

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 02:05:39 am

I just saw that the rest of my comment above was cut off. I posted it at Politicalgates in full.

Here is the part that was cut off, beginning with paragraph #11:

11. Look at the numerous times that Sarah could have and should have had her picture taken alongside her soldier son, but didn’t. ODD ODD ODD! Who knows if that is because Sarah can’t stand him for screwing up her political career, or if Track hates her or fears her. No pictures of Sarah and Track together when he returned from Iraq. No picture of Sarah at Track’s graduation from Basic Training in January 2008.

This is getting too long. FWIW, I believe this is why Sarah faked her pregnancy, to keep Track from possibly being criminally charged and listed as a sex offender and to hide any speculation as to why Trig is retarded. Sarah did a really crappy job of faking the pregnancy, but the cover-up was superb, thanks to people much more intelligent than Sarah, and thanks to our lazy and intimidated press.

Floyd M. Orr link

6/3/2011 02:16:00 am

Welcome back to Babygate, Bree! For anyone who is not familiar with Bree Palin, she ran her Bree Palin blog from 6/09 - 3/10 and then deleted it to move on with her life and sanity. I did a detailed ten-page interview with her about Babygate in Paradigm Shift, so her brief legacy will live on.

Anonymoose

6/3/2011 02:16:55 am

I'm not sure about the Track-Bristol theory. I don't think Britta would have married him/stayed with him for so long if he was the kind of person who rapes/sleeps with his own sister. Isn't she a normal decent human being, from what I've read she seems to be. Track also was in the reality TV show, and I remember him being inside the house with Piper during it, if CBJ was preventing him from being in the same house as Bristol, surely they would not be letting him live/stay in the same house as Piper and Willow (reason 8 above)?? Also to me Track just seems/ed like a rebellious teenager who doesn't get along with his parents and isn't in to the fame whoring. And maybe had more peer pressure at school to rebel because he was the governor's son. I believe he is angry at his mother and made some bad but not uncommon choices as a teenager. Many teenagers (and adults!) take drugs and it doesn't turn them into monsters who rape their sisters or suddenly make them think screwing their sibling would be awesome (number 1 reason for Track being the father listed above). However there are many parents who freak out and send their children away to get them away from drugs.

Also, are child sex offenders allowed in to the army?(If he wasn't allowed into the same house as Bristol as a child sex offender, surely he couldn't get in to the army??)

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an ick-factor story about the father of Trig, but I would be surprised if it was Track.

I think most of the reasons for Track being the father outlined above can be explained by drugs and the school bus incident, with maybe an extra complication of Track finding out his father is not who he thought he was. If he did find that out during this time there would have been lots of anger, resentment and fighting so it may have been easier to send him away rather than deal with the conflict/explain to the other kids what was going on. Other theory- maybe Track was so disgusted by the Trig cover up that he couldn't stand to be around the family and its craziness, so he signed himself up for the army to escape.

comeonpeople

6/3/2011 02:27:25 am

WholyMary:
Is Dr L a neonatologist? Her first name is a flower name? This would confirm where TRi-G was really born, no??

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 02:27:58 am

@Susan

EXACTLY! Sarah handled this situation in the worst possible way. In doing so, it has highlighted the fact that she was desperate to hide a terrible secret.

6/3/2011 02:30:18 am

I admit that I did not know that Track was not Todd's - could someone fill me in?

SLQ

6/3/2011 02:31:04 am

Thanks for pointing out that Anon 4:32 said Trig was born 2 months "earlier." That would make him, what, 3 months early, or even a week or so more than that? That would also explain Anon 4:32's comments about him being born "startingly" early. An excerpt:

"I can tell you with absolute certainty that Trig was NOT diagnosed with Down syndrome pre-natally. Period. In fact his condition wasn't known for a few weeks due to his startling prematurity. At the time of his birth, they were told that he could be blind, deaf, have cerebral palsy, and a host of other issues. I believe once his survival wasn't so precarious, he was tested more definitively for a number of syndromes."

So conception would have been mid- to late-June, which fits with the "Christmas" photo.

It's shocking to suggest incest, but you're right. It does happen.

SLQ

6/3/2011 02:37:42 am

I think PCG's point is that, if Track is the father, this whole charade was done to prevent him from being charged. So the army would not have known about it.

Anon

6/3/2011 02:43:14 am

Susan - you said it! To hear all of this just has my jaw on the floor. First, that Frank Bailey was 100% complicit in a cover-up and yet makes the statements he does in his book. I mean, why put yourself out there with a book with such an egregious lie when it is always possible that it can be uncovered?
The other is that they did NOT know that Trig had Down Syndrome prior to his birth.
Without the supposed ultrasound there is no pro-life cred. So, even if SP and Todd did the honorable thing by giving the baby a more legitimate family tree, milking the birth for the pro-life credibility by claiming to have had knowledge of his condition and doing the "Christian" thing is just so disgusting to me.

DebinOH

6/3/2011 02:46:38 am

I always thought she kept Track out of the pictures because it is possible that he is a Menhard (sp?). I believe I read somewhere that the rumors that Track was not Todd's son started years before we ever saw the pictures of them side by side on Palingates. Hell, long before we even knew that SP existed.

I am reading Bailey's book at the moment and can't remember if I read that there? After reading so many things I am starting to jumble them up.

I don't know everything about SP and her family are just plain bizarre......

Truly there is NO scenario that would surprise me anymore.

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 02:47:32 am

@Wholy Mary advises "Now, forget the wild ride; it didn't happen. Forget about Palin using a breast pump of any kind." She and another anonymous poster recommend more speculation on incest and murder.

The "Wild Ride" is the moral high ground of the investigation. Palin's government office issued a press release about it. The RGA sent a press release about it. Palin included it in her published biography and described in in numerous paid speeches. A candidate can't claim privacy for a story she tells for money.

In 2008, Obama's campaign was actively seeking support and dialog with Christian groups and this infuriated Republican operatives and pseudo-Christians like Dobson:

http://usliberals.about.com/b/2008/06/24/obamas-christian-outreach-forces-embattled-dobson-to-strike-back.htm

There were closed-door meetings in 2008 on how to keep the Christian vote Republican. And this is a big concern for the 2012 election as well. It is why people spread hate about the President's religious beliefs. The modern Republican party cannot elect a president without significant support from Christian voters.

I find it very curious that Frank Bailey's book spends alot of time discussing how Palin let down the anti-abortion community in Alaska once she had national attention. But he doesn't spend much time on what she did for anti-abortion causes before her VP nod. He never discusses her prayer breakfast with Franklin Graham, never discusses her work with Focus on the Family, and never discusses her March 2008 hiring a press secretary with long ties to anti-abortion politicians in the lower 48. Maybe Bailey doesn't talk about the Wild Ride because he knows it may not reflect well on political leaders in the anti-abortion community.

Republican operatives demonize liberals in order to keep evangelical voters within the Republican party. Keep your integrity, stay logical, avoid salacious speculation. The Wild Ride is the moral high ground, is the most politically relevant, and the most important to debunk if you don't want political operatives packaging up presidential candiates like soda or soap powder.

Sunshine1970

6/3/2011 02:50:45 am

@Susan. This is Sarah Palin and the Palin family we're talking about here. She doesn't do things the normal way.

I wouldn't put it past her to cover up something like this. I REALLY hate to think of incest, but with all the crazy lies she's been telling people, and the way she covers for her kids (ie Track cutting brake lines on school busses, etc) this can't be put past her.

And even if an ultrasound was provided as proof, it would not be prove that it came from Sarah's uterus, just proof that there was a baby in someone's uterus somewhere.

comeonpeople

6/3/2011 02:55:34 am

I don't think Track is the father. If it was a secret, Britta was close enough to pick up on some of it.I can't imagine her sticking by him. And, Track is likely Menard so the consanguinuity is not as strong.
What about Johnny Chandler? He has totally fallen of the radar.

Virginia Voter

6/3/2011 03:13:17 am

Pro Choice Grandma...first a big hello. Second, do you remember the old poster from Palin Deceptions days, Blue Tx? This person always claimed that the circumstances surrounding Trig's birth were so horrible and tragic that we would actually feel sorry for Sarah if the truth were ever to come out.

I always found this to be far fetched, but the Track/ Bristol scenario to be true, it certainly would be scandalous enough for Sarah to risk faking a pregnancy. Really, the only scenario. It makes sense, the CBJ connection, the Downs, Bristol being the ONLY logical mother. I really never even thought it was important to figure out who the father was since Bristol was so promiscuous, but yikes! If Track raped his own sister, that is truly f'd up.

Molly

6/3/2011 03:18:36 am

Why are the Johnstons so heavily involved in all of this? Could Bristol have confided the truth about the father to Mercedes?

viola

6/3/2011 03:20:29 am

. . .but to keep following the logic of these wild kids, if Bristol were so promiscuous as some rumors have stated, how would she have known who the father of her child was? Even if there were a rape. From my experience of incest in my own family and in the families of the women I was counseled with, it was always an older male or female preying on a much weaker sibling. And the perpetrator had been abused as well. That's why the Track/Bristol idea doesn't work for me. But Track victimizing a young victim is totally believable, as would be the idea that Britta could feel she was rescuing him.

Virginia Voter

6/3/2011 03:29:14 am

http://www.bestbackgroundcheck.org/blog/1043/sexual-violence-in-alaska-is-reportedly-far-worse-than-anyone-thought/

The incest and rape statistics in Alaska are the highest in country

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 03:31:10 am

@Virginia Voter {{waving!}}

First of all, let me clarify that I don't think Track "raped" Bristol. I am more inclined to think they were both stoned outta their gourds and did "it".

I have always strongly suspected Bristol’s use of the phrase “shoot a tree” is referring to drug use:
“hey, hahaha i went and shoot a tree!! i was so scared of the kick-back and the noise though..everyone had to help me and i was embarrassed”

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tree
tree
A bud of marijuana. Called that because buds of "Dank" or "Kind" (look those up too, meatwad) look like little trees.
Who gots the trees, yo?

Why would everyone need to help her unless it was because she was very stoned and later embarrassed?

As for others who commented that Track wouldn't be able to enter the Army if he were a sex offender, NO ONE KNEW. Unless Britta is reading these comments now, I strongly doubt that she would know. She probably thinks Trig is Levi's. Levi was duped into believing he was Trig's daddy, hence the picture of Levi tenderly holding Trig on 5-3-08 and the RNC picture.

Conscious at last

6/3/2011 03:36:09 am

Wow, this is a great discussion.

Pro Choice Grandma, thank-you! You are so "right on!" I have one more point to add to your list about Track's curious military record(although I'm not sure that he is necessarily the dad). Remember, about a year ago, there was a ceremony in Alaska for Track's military unit? Sarah was there w/Todd, presenting flowers. She was sitting with a sullen expression. But guess who WASN'T there?? TRACK was no where to be seen.
There is something fishy about all of Track's movements, both to Michigan and in the military, but I'm not sure what the core issue is.

Other points to focus on:

the fact that CBJ has gone AWOL

the fact that Bristol gets pregnant
a lot, often, frequently, also, too

Other points to ponder:

We need to put the "Palin Process" in a larger context of organized crime, cult or AIP thugs/enforcers and a community that has been terrorized into silence.

Although the GOP-2008 campaign folks may have known about some of this stuff-- I think that even they were shocked as the sewer opened, a trickle at a time.

At some point, some brave souls in the MSM will FINALLY REALIZE that revealing the truth about babygate and the Palin Process CAN BE VERY PROFITABLE!!
The scandals are many, the intrigue is great and the depth of the pathology is profound. There is enough material here for decades.

curiouser

6/3/2011 03:51:54 am

@ProChoiceGrandma - Have you seen the photo of Alex Fuller cuddling with Trig?

http://shesnohockeymom.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html

Wholy Mary

6/3/2011 04:02:09 am

Hi Vinnie! Nice to see you here making up theories to mislead these nice people.

Why in hell would the Palins and Johnstones need a geneticist?

PCG, are you sure Track went to Michigan? He did go far away but maybe not that far. Maybe he only got about as far as where I'm writing from. (and it would be better if you keep that to yourself Laura)(for now anyways)

No, not Chuck.

KatieAnnieOakley

6/3/2011 04:08:18 am

Curiouser, did Alex ever live in Juneau?

Catherine

6/3/2011 04:09:43 am

OK this is weird. Please consider these things:

1.
The bus incidence with Track was in 2005.

2. He did not supposedly go into the army until 2008. That is 3 years later, way too long for a juvenile offense.

3. There is not a SINGLE PHOTO of Track in a military uniform alone or with his mother on the internet that I could find. I looked through the first 50 pages of google images.

4. Finally, "conscious at last," states above that Track wasn't even at the ceremony that included is supposed unit.

This is all very fishy.

Is there any real proof that Track was definitely in the army ?

I hope someone like Brad and/or Laura are reading and writing down all of these strange and inconsistent findings to help figure this out.

Finally, my thought is Britta may not even know about it IF it is true.
If it is true, it is very sad, but if it isn't true, it is terrible for all of us to be discussing on the internet.

Anonymoose

6/3/2011 04:15:27 am

I am still skeptical.

All those who have been stoned, say aye.

Now, all of you who have accidentally slept with your brother/sister while stoned, say aye.

Anon

6/3/2011 04:20:01 am

@rubbernecking - You have a good point but unfortunately I think this train has already left the station and it is too late to stick to the more polite, well-documented, "verified" and less salacious points of this topic. Perhaps if Palin didn't continue to make a mockery of the media, the office of the President, the intelligence of the American people, American history, ... we could all agree to stick to the non-protected public statements made about what is normally a very private matter for the sake of civility. But she has and does to no apparent end. Great advice but it's too late. We can't turn back the clock. It is going to be a blood-bath.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 04:21:37 am

@Curiser No, I never saw that picture, but I don't see anything particularly damning about it.

WHOly Mary

6/3/2011 04:24:42 am

Catherine says: "3. There is not a SINGLE PHOTO of Track in a military uniform alone or with his mother on the internet that I could find. I looked through the first 50 pages of google images."

Well imagine that Catherine!!

Now that Sarah's blog observer team is on board I can say a little more. So now you know that your secret is not going to stay intact. Go play on your bus all you want but don't start taking yourselves seriously. If you do then you know that the shit's going to hit the fan.

Bloggers: From that you should be able to discern my motive here. Now you don't need me and you were never going to get it from me anyway. I said I couldn't and I can't. When I can it will be too late anyway because you will most likely all know and will maybe be deciding to keep the lid on it. You don't need me anyway, you've already been pointed in the right direction.

Just don't slide back into believing theories that you know aren't true. And don't trust people who try to lead you into believing those theories. Do not continue to doubt your good senses. It's worse than you could ever imagine. Well, at least what many people could imagine?

Over and out, Mary.

Anon

6/3/2011 04:25:08 am

Wholy Mary, are you the source for the upcoming babygate book? Perhaps you are still under a severance agreement from SP's employment and you will be quoted anonymously in the book and then can come out a few months later. Am I warm?

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 04:27:03 am

@ProChoiceGrandma, are you aware of any other US politician whose teenage child got pregnant during his or her administration? Is it your belief that a teen pregnancy is a political liability only if incest is involved?!

Wouldn't a pregnant 15 or 16-yr old daughter be a huge political liability for any female politician?

Like many people, I am frequently angered by Palin's willingness to spread lies and engage in baseless rumor-mongering. But I don't think her behavior justifies accusing her family members of incest based on nothing but anonymous blog comments.

Maybe I'm naive to think the best way to defeat her is to take the moral high road.

Anonymous

6/3/2011 04:28:41 am

Summary:

1. Track bus vandalism-2005

2. Fall 2006 supposedly Track went to Michigan, but wholy Mary reports that is not where he went at all. He went "away" but not that far. He is wear she/he is (for 8 more months)

3. Track returns April 2007.

4. September 2007, unexpected announcement of Track going into the military

4. September 2007, Bristol looks visibly pregnant in photos

5. There are no photos of Track in the army anywhere online. He was not at a ceremony that Sarah went to celebrating his unit. Didn't he supposedly go to the army in 2008 ? This is a year later.
Is there proof of him entering the army?

Is this all correct? I'm coming in late, but I hope someone will write all of this down because there are some missing bits of information and a lot of inconsistencies. I agree with Pro Choice Grandma and what she is saying.

Is Todd ruled out completely?

Sunshine1970

6/3/2011 04:30:18 am

@Anonymoose Maybe not stoned, but maybe meth? Oxycontin? Lots and lots of alcohol? Or a combination of drugs?

Anon

6/3/2011 04:34:17 am

Anonymoose,
yes, I've been stoned, been stoned with my brothers many times in fact starting as an adolescent and no I have never slept with my brothers. The question should perhaps be "have you ever been hooked on meth" ...?

Sunshine1970

6/3/2011 04:37:27 am

I just refreshed and saw Wholy Mary's next post.

It's said 'truth is stranger than fiction.' And if any of this is true, yes, the truth is becoming stranger than anything anyone could have ever imagined, and it's beginning to scare me...what has this family been doing?!

Anonymous

6/3/2011 04:38:49 am

"Wholy Mary" is saying that it is definitely incest. That it is a terrible situation that once we figure it out, we might want to drop it. He/she is implying it is track.

She/he is saying that Track NEVER was in the army and he NEVER went to Michigan.

Wholy Mary is giving a warning to Sarah to not go any farther on the bus or the truth will be out. She/he is warning Sarah - HAVE FUN PLAYING ON THE BUS but don't you dare go any further Sarah because EVERYTHING will come out, do you understand Sarah??? Do you get it yet?

Wholy Mary cannot say anything for 8 more months. Gee, that just happens to be after the Republican primary. GET IT YET ??

Could Wholy Mary be someone working on another campaign perhaps someone like Steve Schmidt or similar politico who knows the truth about Track, he is working on Romneys campaign so he cannot come outright and say the truth because it would look very bad.

From here, where do the investigators go look next?

FIND TRACK"S ARMY RECORDS ??
RESEARCH WHERE TRACK WENT if not Michigan?
Where would Wholy Mary be now?

I hope BRAD is reading here.

For Gryhphen--Wholy Mary says Mercedes, Sherry and Levi know the truth.
So does Todd, Bristol, and Dr. CBJ, Frank, and Wholy Mary.

Wholy Mary cannot talk for 8 months. When is the Republican primary?

Wholy Mary hints who he is. He is giving a big huge hint in his message to Sarah.

I hope BRAD AND LAURA are taking detailed notes. I hope Sarah gets the message/warning from Wholy Mary.

melly

6/3/2011 04:42:32 am

I think this is the first open discussion of the ickiest of the ick factors. It was always banned on Palin's Deceptions and Gryph doesn't go there either. You all have done it as...tastefully...as you could. The conversation has to go there because the story and the person get more and more toxic.

Also wanted to ask about this comment of Wholy Mary's:

"Do take heart that this 'will' be broken open in time. There is no doubt about that but it won't be when it will be politically damaging for Sarah Palin. That I'm sorry about too."

Please explain what it means, and generally quit being so cryptic. I'm sick of playing 20 questions over and over. The spiral of silence begins with the people who have documentable proof and don't use it. If you're afraid, but you're telling the truth, figure out how to protect yourself while you exercise courage. Otherwise don't bother with the clues and predictions. Maybe I have no idea what risks you run, but in the end it's no excuse. If you're reading, Dr. CBJ, I say that to you too.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 04:44:53 am

@Wholy Mary
There are articles of Track living with the Holmes family in Portage, Michigan:

"Her son, Track, lived with the Holmes family and attended Portage Central High School for several months of his senior year in 2006. ...

"He needed a host family and we were happy to do it," Holmes said. "Sarah was running for governor when Track came to us in September of 2006, and she got elected that November."

Here is another link:
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2008/08/son_of_alaska_gov_sarah_palin.html

IMO, I don't believe that bullshit about Track going to Michigan to play hockey in that podunk town, I believe he was in some type of drug rehabilitation program. Long ago I looked up a rehab facility that was located in Portage.

Anonymoose

6/3/2011 04:45:34 am

I was just responding to ProChoiceGrandma's scenario, where she said they smoked pot and slept together.

Has anyone actually got proof Bristol was using meth? I have seen people mention rumors about Track and oxycontin, but nothing about meth.

I think if people are going to slander Track by suggesting he raped/slept with his sister, there should be hard evidence.

Also I'm sure Britta would have some suspicions. Besides, if it happened at a party, everyone would know. Kids gossip.

Molly

6/3/2011 04:50:46 am

Waaaa....Wholy Mary don't leave us now.

Sunshine1970

6/3/2011 04:52:02 am

Are there any pics of Track with the family in Michigan? Or any images of him playing hockey there?

The Palin family has been able to keep secrets from many, and done a pretty good job of it, as well (so far). Britta may not know anything because they're just that good at keeping secrets. And IF the incest is true, I'm sure Bristol, Track and the whole family would rather just forget it ever happened.

I still really don't want to think about it *shudders*

Wholy Mary

6/3/2011 04:54:41 am

No, I did not say that Track was the father and I did not say incest was involved. I wouldn't say that because that would surely get me in more trouble than I'm already in. I didn't say that Levi was the father and I didn't say that Todd or anybody else was the father. I didn't say it was incest and I didn't say it was rape.

You people are going to have to form your own conclusions. You will!

6/3/2011 04:58:27 am

How am I supposed to get anything done today?!

lilly lily

6/3/2011 05:00:19 am

Gryphen spotlights Mercede today, but says anyone trashes her , they won't be allowed to comment.

As usual she says nothing that is any different in this story, other than to complain that Bristol again reneged on allowing Tripp to visit.

So what?

So a DR L.. who is no doctor knows. A phd. A psychologist perhaps or therapist of some sort.

Way back when a social worker claimed that a hospital worker (nurse) told her she was present at the birth in Mat Su?

She had moved outside of Wasilla only months before. fat something or other was it fat Sheila?

A lot of dead ends.

Sarah continues as a teflon candidate, with her bots accepting any stupidity on her part as endearing.

Bad parenting for each of her kids, oh who gives a damn? Her bots don't care.

And the Republicans like McCain who know damn well what is what stay mum and continue their support.

The whole thing is insane. From start to finish it is lies, coverups, lies and more coverups.

California Dreamin'

6/3/2011 05:00:22 am

"How am I supposed to get anything done today?!"

Tell me about it!! I've been reading here and catching up over at IM for over four hours now! lol

6/3/2011 05:00:43 am

Wholy Mary, I am guessing that you haven't said any of those things because you are not allowed to, for 8 months. But that doesn't mean that all of those things are false.... right?

Anonymoose

6/3/2011 05:01:51 am

Wholy Mary, are you saying Keith Johnston is the father??

Anon

6/3/2011 05:03:06 am

Wanted to mention, I was the first one to introduce the "i" word on this thread after PCG and Wholy Mary were talking around it. When I did it was 2 in the morning and I was pretty sure the message would not be up when I looked in the morning. The fact that Wholy Mary has spoken to Laura and that she knows where he or she is means they have communicated and she has verified his story. Floyd has suggested Laura is the author of the upcoming babygate book.
From having been on this site and seeing her experience, I believe Laura has much integrity and a professional reputation to boot. I believe she would not allow this particular topic to be discussed if she did not have factual information to support it.
That being said, to rubbernecking and others, I agree it is awful that this is what this has come to. Like viola, my family has a history with it and I had to testify in court when I was 12. Wish we were not at this point, and perhaps Wholy Mary's warning will put an end to the exploration should his or her warning be heeded. But it is highly doubtful.

lilly lily

6/3/2011 05:04:26 am

As far as Wholy Mary.

Another wild goose chase trying to pin her down to anything definative.

She or He is enjoying her little tease.

A bit like a scavenger chase with no reward at the end.

DebinOH

6/3/2011 05:05:02 am

Okay, I may be an idiot but what scenario haven't we come up that would be WORSE?

I agree that the issue of Track is weird, being sent away and you never saw him in military attire or no pictures of him either with Sarah.

However, I do believe we saw an official form with his name on it (probably Palingates). We decided that he hadn't been in "real" combat situations. Besides that there are too many people who would say that he was never in the military. I don't think you could keep that a secret?

lilly lily

6/3/2011 05:07:21 am

Incidently Bristol spoke of huge stashes. Implying drugs.

She also used drug slag on her facebook. I checked when I first saw it, and a lot is drug talk.

curiouser

6/3/2011 05:09:39 am

@ProChoiceGrandma - The photo shows another teenage boy loving on Trig. I don't mean to imply anything about Alex specifically. To me, it raises the question: How can we take the photo of Levi and Trig as evidence that Levi must either be Trig's bio father or believes he is the father? Now, I wouldn't be surprised one bit to learn that was true but I don't understand why Mercede's explanation is ruled out as a possibility. Why can't the photo of Levi and Trig also be explained by Levi's two-day old awareness that Bristol was pregnant with Tripp and he would soon become a father, his recent engagement and relationship to Trig as his new baby brother-in-law?

@KatieAnnieOakley - I only know the Fullers are friends from Wasilla. Alex's mother, Juanita, was one of the 'Elite Six' (Sarah and her aerobic buddies) and more recently was the 'hair fluffer' on the latter part of the Going Rogue book tour.

VirginiaVoter

6/3/2011 05:13:02 am

DebinOh, I think both Palingates and IM had an image of Tracks discharge papers posted some time in the last year which they got from an FOIA request. He only spent a year on active duty, no combat duty. It was commented on by many, many former military personnel who Jew what the various codes were.

I'm going to look for the post

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 05:15:13 am

@Rubbernecking at 11:27

Sarah Palin is the one who pulled this hoax on the American public. It is SHE who should put an end to this by providing concrete evidence of Trig's birth, including his birth certificate and medical and insurance documents showing his date and place of birth.

The minute Sarah admits she faked her pregnancy, I will never utter another word about WHY she did it. It really doesn't matter to me who is Trig's father. Bristol is the one who was pregnant, not Sarah. Since Sarah is the one prolonging her lie, I will continue to explore and discuss the circumstances.

Remember these Journalism questions, Sarah: Who What Where When Why & How

Anon

6/3/2011 05:20:03 am

sunshine - I have heard of both meth and oxycontin surrounding Track on blogs, comments from people claiming to be locals who were in the know. I have no proof. I was only suggesting that if it is the scenario PCG suggests it needn't be pot.

lilly, @Wholy Mary doesn't say it Isn't Track, doesn't say it Is incest. He (it sounds like a male) Does say that it isn't Todd. Says its worse than we could imagine. What he Does say is: "I wouldn't say that because that would surely get me in more trouble than I'm already in."

He also supports PCG's analysis or at least doesn't poke holes in it, so at the very least it is a whole lot stranger than any of us wanted to believe. (Heck, I had commented earlier this week that I thought the reason the child in question hadn't been seen is that he looks too much like Levi!)

Between this, 4:32 on IM and the other commenter who apparently last saw Trig in March, PLUS a babygate book that is supposed to be out this summer, I am hopeful that we will not have the most stupid person ever to run for the office of president on the ticket in 2012.

Anon

6/3/2011 05:24:43 am

... or perhaps that "the most stupid person ever to run for the office of president" will remain our 43rd president.

Susan

6/3/2011 05:28:42 am

This is something of an aside, it refers to Track and his hockey narrative, and in particular his time spent in Michigan.

Sending Track to Michigan, if to enhance his hockey opportunities is on the surface feasible. I haven't investigated this, but was not aware that he was affiliated with a USHA Juniors team. If not the Juniors program, exceptional atheletes are often sent to schools with strong athletic programs, respected for their developemental emphasis and considered reliable conduits to advancing the atheletes opportunities post HS. These are private schools. Is the school Track affiliated with in Michigan respected, and identified with hockey developement programs, and was it a public or private school? Hockey is big in Michigan, with a well developed and maintained support network, open to local and national talent. I don't question whether Track played hockey or if he was considered to be a good player, what I think bears investigation is did going out of state in pursuit of hockey seem congruent with both his level of talent and his expressed goals? Were there other extenuating and influencing circumstances that might have informed that decision?

I do consider the timing of his association with an out of state program unusual. IIRC, Track's senior year was spent in Michigan. Usually atheletes are going into these programs at the 9th and 10th grade levels. If I may highlight my nephews progression as a matter of comparison: As a 9th grader he played HS Varsity. In 10th grade he went into the Juniors program, living and attending high school in the city of his affiliated team, in this case out of state. He played through his junior year, completed his HS courses early, graduated, and as a would be HS senior entered a college hockey program on scholarship. Before starting college he was drafted professionally, played his full 4 years despite pressure from his professional team to enter their program after his sophmore year. He graduated, with honors and is now playing in the professional ranks, not yet in the NHL. Nothing about his path is exceptional or unusual for the caliber of atheletes that gain college scholarships and professional contracts.

I find equally suspicious the story of his injury. I understand that he returned to Alaska due to the injury, which has been advanced as the reason he gave up playing hockey. It should be checked on to see if he actually had the surgery. Serious atheletes, that have potential at the college and professional levels, might be sidelined, but typically would not abandon their "passion" because of an injury that requires a surgical solution. Anything is possible, but if he is all that Palin attempted to hype him to be, the scenario of him abandoning hockey because of a temporary injury seems incongruent with the serious hockey players that I know. Broken ankles, concussions, ruptured arteries, even a broken neck have not stopped these players from rehabilitating and ultimately returning to hockey, with continuing success.
Although even with good intention, and talent to draw on if a young person is suffering emotionally, or abusing drugs, or have other causes of duress in his life he may easily lose his grip on both his belief in himself, his potential and his aspirations.

His brief stay in Michigan, and the supporting story that Palin has wrapped it in, is rather vague and incomplete. And of course Palin's estranged relationship with truth makes any narrative she advances to be subject to review.

The topic of incest is very sensitive. But despite the taboos surrounding it, I feel it is far more commonly enacted then we are willing to acknowledge. I know of three women, personally, who have undergone years of therapy, and emotional dis-ease due to its lingering and insidious damage. All three of these women were impacted as the result of brother/sister liasons. I think we should treat this with great care and sensitivity, but I don't think it should be forbidden territory.

Anonymous

6/3/2011 05:29:17 am

Could Track have gone into rehab those times he went to "Michigan" and "in the Army"?

SLQ

6/3/2011 05:31:46 am

Anon at 12:03: Wholy Mary didn't necessarily say she had spoken to Laura, just that Laura may know where she is located. This may be because, as blog owner, Laura can see where people are posting from.

Now, maybe Laura HAS spoken with her, but I don't think we can conclude that from what Mary posted.

Mhurka

6/3/2011 05:34:26 am

Incest is a class C felony in Alaska(2 to 8 years prison time). Maybe this is one of the reasons that babygate is such a tough nut to crack.

Anon

6/3/2011 05:41:07 am

SLQ - hmm, what Wholy Mary says is: "(and it would be better if you keep that to yourself Laura)(for now anyways)"

I guess what you suggest is possible but I highly doubt it. I can't recall an instance where any of the palin bloggers has outed a commenter's location even if they were bots, spammers or rude to others on the blog.
Usually if someone is outed it is based on the details they themselves provide in their comments.

Anon 12:03

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 05:42:25 am

@DebinOh & Virginia Voter

I have seen the form of Track's release, can't remember if it was a DD Form 214. Wholy Mary is losing credibility.

At the time of Sarah Palin’s 1-15-08 State of the State address, Track was about to graduate from Basic Training at Ft. Benning, Georgia on 1-18-08. In “Going Rogue” Sarah says graduation was 1-18-08. This caption is next to the ONLY picture of Track’s graduation:
“January 18, 2008, Fort Benning, Georgia. We made it to Track’s U.S. Army boot camp graduation ceremony in time for Todd to put the blue cord on our son’s right shoulder. The young soldier, along with thousands of others in a Stryker Brigade, later deployed to Iraq for a year. This was one of our proudest days.”

But here is a curiosity - according to this site, the blue cord ceremony is on the DAY BEFORE GRADUATION:

http://www.militarymoms.net/basicformoms.html
"What is "Turning Green" and "Turning Blue"?
At Fort Benning, where many soldiers attend basic training, there is a ceremony the day before graduation called Turning Blue for Infantrymen, and Turning Green for other sections of Basic Training. Turning Blue is an impressive ceremony where your soldier is specifically assigned to the Infantry. One of his family members or other loved one will be given the opportunity to attach a blue Infantry cord to his Class A uniform.
Other sections of Fort Benning basic training have a similar ceremony called Turning Green."

NO pictures of Sarah at the graduation ceremony ANYWHERE.

Marie

6/3/2011 05:44:40 am

Weren't there pictures of Track in his uniform on a bookshelf in Sarah's house and at some point copies of Track's discharge papers were on IM? Sarah was promoting that she raised a combat vet and his discharge records indicated that he did not have combat notation??

DebinOH

6/3/2011 05:57:13 am

As I have stated many times I have been following this story (via Mudflats, Palindeceptions, Immoral Minority, Bree, Palingates and sorry if I left anyone out,since 9/2008). THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH SARAH PALIN. There is NO doubt about it. I also think she is not a good mother.

However, why would she ever put herself out there if there was something so seriously wrong with the baby story (incest, rape, etc. I believe she would LOVE the "sympathy" spot light but could anyone do this to their children if the real story is so awful?

If it was Bristol she was covering for she has already thrown her under the bus once so I don't think it would amount to anyone really caring at this point. People think it would be honorable.

Molly

6/3/2011 05:59:19 am

Rereading Wholy Mary's last post, she says that she didn't say various things and she is correct. But she has lead us there. Track is involved somehow. She says it is worse than we can imagine. I'm just throwing out another suggestion - could he have instigated a gang rape against his sister when they were all high on drugs? I know this is yucky, but Sarah should have stayed at home and shut her big mouth.

I also remember that Track called Bristol some very foul-mouthed names at one stage.

ProChoiceGrandma

6/3/2011 05:59:42 am

@Anon at 12:20
"sunshine - I have heard of both meth and oxycontin surrounding Track on blogs, comments from people claiming to be locals who were in the know. I have no proof. I was only suggesting that if it is the scenario PCG suggests it needn't be pot."

I have never used drugs so if my use of the word "stoned" only implies pot, that is my naiveté. The Wasilla kids frequently spoke of camping on MySpace, and I am sure there was an ample supply of drugs and alcohol at these "camping" parties.

BTW, wasn't it also mentioned in the National Enquirer about Track using oxycontin - I believe the same issue that talked about Sarah's affair with Brad Hanson.

SLQ

6/3/2011 06:01:24 am

Anon -- I didn't think Laura would "out" anyone without their permission, but I took Mary's statement to say that Track was not in Michigan, but where Mary is located, and a side note to Laura that Laura would probably know where she is located, but she was NOT giving her permission to share that information. Mary does seem very concerned about exposure.

It could also be that they've talked. The runaround does get tiresome, doesn't it?

silver

6/3/2011 06:07:46 am

I sometimes think Chuck is not Sarah's father even though he raised her. The story is that three babies were all born within the week and the parents all taught at the same school and then Chuck and Sally pulled up roots within months and headed to Alaska.

Chuck could be Bristol's father (and Sarah the mother) and that's why Bristol has gotten rid of his chin that she's inherited? Todd could be Trig's father and Bristol the mother? Then there would be no incest. Perhaps Levi was led to believe that he was the father of Trig?

Anonymous

6/3/2011 06:16:13 am

What if Bristol was high... willingly had a train run on her and doesn't know who is the father? The effects of the drugs caused health issues with the baby. Maybe Track (high on drugs too), was there and let it happen. Sarah tries to hide the fact that she and Bristol have no idea who is the father of her grandchild/child.

Floyd M. Orr link

6/3/2011 06:17:45 am

To address one of your questions about Track, please allow me to quote the first paragraph on Page 95 of Paradigm Shift under the heading of Track:

"There was a photo of Track Palin published in the Kalamazoo (Michigan) Gazette on 8/29/08. The picture included Dan Holmes, a teenage associate of Track's in late '06 and early '07, just months before Track returned to Alaska and graduated from Wasilla High School. I am going to try to build a case for Track's innocence in the whole Babygate scam based on the events of this time period. I still think Track is probably an angry young man, and most of that anger is probably aimed at his mother first and his father second, whether that man is Todd Palin or Curtis Menard, Jr."

The story in the book continues from there, of course, but the opening references a photo of Track and his hockey pal that was published in the Kalamazoo MI Gazette on 8/29/08. Of course this is the date SP suddenly became very famous. The article that accompanied the photo discussed the story of how Track had come to Michigan to play hockey with Dan Holmes.

DebinOH

6/3/2011 06:19:56 am

Sorry for all the mistakes in my previous reply. I went to fix them and all of a sudden my computer went blank. I was surprised to see the comment here.

At any rate, IS SP crazy enough to be out in public if they have a secret that is icky and would hurt her own children?

lilly lily

6/3/2011 06:20:48 am

I don't like the 20 questions routine. Am I hot or cold game.

But Bristol was said to be free and easy with her favors, took multiple drugs, was under the influence of liquor as well, then Track outed her to her mother. Didn't she write she was going to kick his balls?

I don't get the impression there is any love lost between these two half silblings.

also Bristol really was wrecked when she went out Shooting Squirrels. She said she was out of it and needed help?

Remember the song. Behind Blue Eyes.

"And if I swallow anything evil, Put your finger down my throat."

Those kids might have been typical in Wasilla, but they strike me as somewhat more high and hard living than many.

Remember all the Velvet Chivas Regal pouches on Mercedes wall that she used as wallpaper?

Mercedes portrays herself as better moraly than Bristol.

They were rivals in a way, for Levi. Two of a kind.

Keith backed Bristol over his daughter at one point.

6/3/2011 06:20:54 am

Wholy Mary,
As there could be a lot of candidates for Trig's father, wouldn't a geneticist help sort that out? Why did you say that a geneticist would not be necessary?

kelgal

6/3/2011 06:21:19 am

Interesting that WMary did not list anyone in the Mccain campaign as being "in the know". Although, she/he does include him/herself on the list. Could this person be the only Mccain staffer who was told by the Palins about this whole sordid cover-up and never spilled the beans to other staffers! (more self-control than I could ever muster!) That would fit with the "can't say anything more about it for 8 months" as having to wait until after the Republican primary if this person is now working for a Republican who is a potential presidential candidate.
I bring this up for a few of reasons and it's not to try to figure out the identity of WMary. 1 reason is that it would lend some credibility to the person's claim if this is the case and would more than justify the potential for Sarah to recognize WMary and know the threat as presented is legitimate. Another is that I always assumed that some of the success in SP's pulling off this hoax was due to Mccain's participation and clout, but he is not listed as knowing about it-curious. Thirdly, (curiousity again) what is this person willing to do if Palin ignores this anonymous (at least to us) threat and continues with her bus "tour"?

DebinOH

6/3/2011 06:27:41 am

Okay, how do any of the scenarios hurt SP politically. We are either going to feel sorry for her or her kids have problems which is nothing new anymore.

I guess even if she did lie none of this will hurt her chances in the election cycle. Other than holding Bristol down while she was forcibly being raped by a relative nothing about this is going to hurt her. She is made of Teflon.

Sunshine1970

6/3/2011 06:28:01 am

@kelgal

On IM, this person says they work in the healthcare field, so they probably wouldn't be a McCain staffer

lilly lily

6/3/2011 06:28:38 am

Perhaps multiple men or boys did take advantage while the mother, whoever that is, was under the influence, and no one knows for sure what went down.

But I think it was Todds with another woman that Sarah knows very well.

BfromC

6/3/2011 06:28:52 am

I found where I had seen Track's Army release papers -- at IM - on this post:

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/11/tonight-spa-moves-away-from-recent.html

kelgal

6/3/2011 06:34:52 am

Might WMary's vague comments about Track's military service being in question be in regard to his having only served 1 year, rather than implying that he never served at all?
Floyd, 1 photo of Track with a known friend in Michigan wouldn't really prove that he lived there would it? The fact that the Holmes' were friends with the Palins would actually make the appearance of the newspaper story from Michigan on the day that Mccain tapped her for VP highly suspicious to me. Collusion by the Holme' family anyone?

lilly lily

6/3/2011 06:36:57 am

We will have to wait for Levi to do a bit of honest writing about his life in the Palin home and his relationship with Bristol and Sarah.

If Track is Menards son, Sarah owed Todd a freebe as far as Trig would be concerned.

I think Track was in the army. I seem to recall seeing a photo with his cropped hair, and also the Palins attending some services in Alaska for his division.

6/3/2011 06:38:28 am

@kelgel I don't think Wholy Mary from this site is the same person as the health care worker from IM... Why do you think they are?

kelgal

6/3/2011 06:41:09 am

Sunshine1970, do we know that Shitfire from IM and WMary here are the same person?

Thanks for the reminder about the poster at IM being in the health care field. If it's the same poster, obviously (in best Emily Littella voice)…..never mind.

kelgal

6/3/2011 06:47:28 am

@JJ I've read so many comments today on all the babygate sites that I may have inadvertently attributed Shitfire comments to WMary and vice-versa. If that's the case, I apologize and hope that I'm the only one who I've confused.

Thanks, Laura for providing a forum for all this info and speculation.

Sunshine1970

6/3/2011 06:52:26 am

I really thought they were the same person, just because there were revelations there and then here. The 'voice' seemed the same.

But if there is a *second* person revealing info, just a day later, then wow. That's huge, to me at least. And if Mercede spills some beans, that would be...you'd have to pick me up off the floor because I'd be beyond shocked...seriously

Palintologist

6/3/2011 06:54:59 am

Wow! Does all this mean that Schwarzeneggar is Trig's dad?
Just had to lighten it up a little.

So Bristol is the mom and if we read between the lines of these comments

"No, I did not say that Track was the father and I did not say incest was involved. I wouldn't say that because that would surely get me in more trouble than I'm already in. I didn't say that Levi was the father and I didn't say that Todd or anybody else was the father. I didn't say it was incest and I didn't say it was rape."

That being said if the Palin's and Johnston's did not need a geneticist it must surely be a Palin or Johnston who fathered Trig. As by a process of elimination that leaves Todd, Track, Levi, Keith and Chuck. Wholy Mary seems to rule out Chuck. The worst case scenario would be Todd, Keith or Track. Keith is the only one Wholy Mary does not mention.

The other things that seem weird are the names Tripp (wasn't Shailey Tripp Todd's alleged massage threapist?) and the Paxson in Trig's name. I have seen where Palin said Paxson was a favorite place where they snowboarded, there is also Lowell "Bud" Paxson who is connected to McCain.

Bree Palin

6/3/2011 06:57:31 am

Molly - IMO Sarah wouldn't be protecting Keith, she would be protecting Bristol.

Hey, PCG! I agree with all of your good points about Track as a possible solution to the sinister question. I hold out the possibility that Track's odd relationship to his family is because of his drug use and that he really does not go along with being used as a prop by Sarah.

I landed on Keith J by considering the motivations of the Johnstons whose role in all of this does not make sense to me - here are my quick thoughts - I haven't thought about Keith Johnston in a long time so I may very well be missing something! The WholyMary commenter seems quite emphatic that Levi and Mercede know a different story than they are telling - and that's what led me to this line of thinking.

Their contradictory behavior throughout this entire saga. It is as if they are hiding something too. Levi having an earlier baby with Bristol would not be something worth hiding. There is nothing shameful about teenagers handing over their baby to a parent to raise. At this point they could have gotten plenty of money for that story plus any judge would give and enforce custody/visitation of any children in question to Levi. And they would all be light years better off than they are now. So why do they seem to sabotage their best interests?

Instead they have allowed the Palins to trash them in the worldwide press, have had a ton of money problems, and are still without visitation with Tripp. I think if the story were simply that Trig is B&L's first baby or even B's baby with someone else, they would have spilled that by now.

Keith leaving his family at the exact crucial moment, moving to another state, apparently leaving his wife and children in really dire straights, and having a rocky to non-existent relationship with his kids from that time on. Really odd.

And Sherry's drug bust - including her apparently willingly pleading to a rather severe sentence for a first time offense.

It also explains why Sarah hates the Johnstons so much. It seems above and beyond, even for Palin. If Levi is the father of her grandson it is a bit much even for her to completely trash him and his family to the entire world. Especially after first having built Levi up as such a great guy - they were both working their butts off, etc. Why did she feel free to boot Levi out a couple of months after they announced Tripp's birth? She has treated him and his family horribly. Clearly, she doesn't think that any of them are going to spill any explosive secret. Either they really are totally clueless about babygate or they have their own motivations for not wanting the truth to come out. And custody of Tripp is not the answer here - a judge would enforce fair visitation of Tripp. And Levi has had plenty of opportunity to get sound counsel. I also don't think any contract explains this. And until recently the Palins did not have enough money to buy them off and doesn't seem to have done so. I can't figure this out!

It seems from looking at both Palin's and the Johnstons behavior that Palin acts as if she has something on the Johnstons as much as they have something on her. And if it were B&L handing over baby Trig to Sarah that would not reflect badly on Levi, Mercede, or Sherry. But I could understand Levi and Mercede not wanting something nasty to come out about their father.

This is pure speculation on my part, but the little pieces seem to fit to me. I get the feeling Levi and Mercede were allowed to get as much money from the press as they could drum up so long as they toe the line.

Until I find something to rule this out I'm sticking to my hunch of the day :)

Thanks to Laura for your blog!

Floyd M. Orr link

6/3/2011 06:59:49 am

With The Palins, who knows what is the truth and what is an illusion? However, in cases such as this, I tend to believe the standard story until it is proven otherwise.

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2008/08/son_of_alaska_gov_sarah_palin.html

SLQ

6/3/2011 07:05:37 am

I was just rereading Wholy Mary's posts, and this caught my eye:

"Now that Sarah's blog observer team is on board I can say a little more. So now you know that your secret is not going to stay intact. Go play on your bus all you want but don't start taking yourselves seriously. If you do then you know that the shit's going to hit the fan.

Bloggers: From that you should be able to discern my motive here."

From this, I would gather that Mary's motive is to prevent $arah from running for president. She can play at it all she wants, but this was a warning to $arah. She's not really here to give us the truth, though I think she enjoys that and hopes we'll figure it out. However, she think the truth is so awful that we won't even want to pursue it.

She also calls out "Vinnie," even though Vinnie hasn't posted on this thread under that name. So, clearly, she believes Vinnie is a Sarah spy and is familiar with his various screen names.

This entire "Wholy Mary" thread appears to be a political maneuver. A helpful one, for us, in that we don't want $arah to be president, either. Not so helpful in unraveling the mystery of Trig, or even in outing $arah, because we really don't have any new facts. Leads, yes. Facts, no.

6/3/2011 07:08:32 am

Does a sordid tale hurt Palin politically or will everyone feel sorry for her? Nothing would change the fact that she shoved a square pillow under her shirt to fake a pregnancy and then a la the Lion King used a baby to sell her pro-life cred. This will ruin Sarah Palin, and I hope it's this weekend because I am so over her.
PS If it's not incest that eliminates everyone on the above list except for a Johnston. I hope Mercede realizes the truth will set her free.

Anonymous

6/3/2011 07:15:36 am

Please everyone do not forget that the minute Sarah or the bots know this is being discussed we are going to see a lot of false leads planted here.

We have to stick to the main facts of what we do know.

Sarah is not the birth mother.
We are 95% (?) sure Bristol is the birth mother.
It is a sinister , yucky story.
Track was not really in the army.
Unsure if Track went to Michigan, there is honesty nothing that PROVES he was there. A friends statement proves nothing.
Trig was born several months earlier than published.
Tripp was born at least 5 weeks later.

Sarah has been given a "warning" to play around on the bus, but not to go farther because it will all start tumbling down.

I believe this warning comes from someone who can't talk for 8 months - meaning after the Republican primary. So it could be a number of people there who know but can't say now

As far as who knows the truth about the story - it is a small list--Sarah,Todd, Bristol, Track, Willow, Sherry, Levi, Mercedes, Dr. CBJ and one or two others .

These are the facts I see now that Wholy Mary has basically not denied.

Anything else.

Everyone please please watch for trolls that are going to start throwing us off the track we are on.

Anonymoose

6/3/2011 07:20:05 am

I'm thinking the same thing Bree Palin. Also doesn't Keith live in Arizona, another strange coincidence. And it would explain the rivalry between Mercede and Bristol, and the baby brother comment on myspace. Though if it were true I doubt
Mercede would happily be calling Trig her baby brother on myspace. Also Mercede wrote that blogpost about facebook messages from bristol, and bristol wrote that she, levi and mercede's father were worried about her mental health for talking to gryphen. Why was Bristol in contact with Levi & Mercede's estranged father?? I am confused though as to Levi's involvement, why on earth would he have a relationship with and father a child with a woman who cheated on him or at least slept with his father? That's the part that doesn't make sense, unless Levi was in the dark and thought he was the father of Trig until after she was pregnant with Tripp, and they faked the 2nd engagement for the money. I don't know this is all too crazy!! The other thing that bothers me is Sherry getting busted for selling oxycontin, and Track being rumored to be addicted to oxycontin. Was Sherry dealing to Track? What else is going on there? I remember someone a long time ago maybe on your blog Bree or else Audrey's saying that there was some terrible incest/some hidden connection between the Johnston and Palin families that went back a long time. Made me wonder if there were affairs between the two families in the past. It makes my head hurt thinking about it!

BfromC

6/3/2011 07:21:44 am

Hello Bree -- good to see you commenting! We've missed you.

I'm not really there with the Keith J.thing, but there is plenty of room for speculation right now. That is for sure. Mercede has shared that her father had a mistress for many years and I assume he is off with her. So he could simply just have been an absentee father for a long, long time.

RE: Sherry's drug bust. To add intrigue, it did all come down with the phone that Sherry had purchased for Bristol, after her own mother took her phone away, I believe. So it was even more suspicious.

I can't quite latch on to the theory though (from Holy Mary?) that the Sherry and Mercede have been paid off. They may know a whole lot more, but it sounds like they are truly struggling financial and have become very isolated. It is hard to tell what Levi might have received. Mercede hasn't really explained if their relationship with him is decent right now.

There is no doubt that Mercede led a wild child life back before Sarah became national news. I found her MySpace pages the night before she took them private. It was quite an introduction. I was sure the girl was in college, for all the more mature activities she was involved in. I am sure I'd find the very same activities in Illinois, but it just seemed so much more open and natural, considering they were all high schoolers at the time. I do think it just might be different in Alaska, with parents "allowing" more of that behavior.

There didn't seem to be a financial problem in those days. Her "reappearance" right now may be if her Playboy spread is real and coming out fairly soon.

It is all very, very sad. But I do not put anything out of the realm of possibility with the Palins and their sordid lives.

Anonymous

6/3/2011 07:22:39 am

Deb in Ohio-

There is a very easy answer to your question. The reason Sarah has put herself out there is because she honestly believes in her heart that she was "ANNOINTED" and "MANTLED" by God to lead the people in this nation to the end times. She believes God has chosen her for this important task and that prayer warriors have put a shield around her that protect her from all bad criticism and commentary.

To those not brought up with this type of religion, we find this hard to believe. But Sarah grew up in this extreme religion her whole life. It is much more relevant then people realize.

Bobby

6/3/2011 07:24:48 am

Off track? Is that a pun? LOL!

All you people insinuating they know more than you can say is infuriating. If you post anonymously, nobody would know it was you.

Get over yourselves and tell us what you know. Otherwise, we can't believe anything you say.

Are you listening Wholy Mary?

scsc

6/3/2011 07:25:35 am

For what it's worth, I found a picture of Track in his Army uniform:

http://www.armedservicesjobsblog.com/2010/12/sarah-palins-son-track-serves-in-armys.html

There's also a video of Sarah at Track's unit's deployment ceremony.

So I think following the supposed "Track was never in the Army" lead will take us in the wrong direction.

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 07:26:51 am

Several of you having been pushing the incest rumors for a long time and on the earliest best blogs. I've seen nothing logical or factual about the theories. I've seen no fruitful leads come from this speculation. Has anyone ever considered that this type of rumor-mongering might have contributed to the Huffpo ban? Or maybe it's why some serious political bloggers think this story is followed only by hateful, irrational people?

@ProchoiceGrandma ignored my question on the ethics of accusing someone of incest with zero facts. Or maybe she feels the ends justifies the means.

If Palin's son's desire for privacy is reasonable proof of incest, what should I assume about all the anonymous posters on these blogs? I guess there's no innocent reason for wanting to protect your privacy. Hey! Maybe ProchoiceGrandma committed incest! Otherwise, wouldn't she have revealed her legal name and life's whereabouts by now?!!

And before you go batshit on me, remember that ProchoiceGrandma is just a handle for posting blog comments. It's not her real name. It's not like there are hundreds of comments with her legal name and an unfounded incest accusation in dozens of blog archives for all of posterity.

As for Palin's son's deployment, the military takes precautions with politicians' sons in a warzone. The military discourages political families from publicizing too much information. It's a risk to both the soldier and his troop. Biden, McCain, Webb and several other politicians had sons serve in Iraq with minimal fanfare. As for proof that he actually served, you don't need photos. IM posted the discharge papers on 11/28/2010.

Anyone who has serious reason to believe the incest theory should send their proof in a private email to Laura. Accusing people by name of incest without a scrap of proof is unethical. Crap like this is why so many people dismiss us as the left-version of the Birthers.

comeonpeople

6/3/2011 07:27:13 am

I haven't read all the comments yet. But it seems there isn't anything that "new" yet. The Track incest theory has been around a long time as wellover the years. Was Travck a meth addict and was sent away to rehab rther than Michigan and the army?? And GOP upper echelon covered up for the train wreck by saying he was in the army??
Also, don't forget that althoug CBJ speciality is sex abuse in the young, she was Palins family practice MD supposedly, so the sex abuse stuff could be a red herring...Sarah nominated CBJ for family practice physician of the year back in 2002 I believe, way before the kids were old enough to need CBJs speciality.
In all actuality, what we have here is a mish mash of Palin children fuck ups that are getting intertangled..some truth mixed with rumor. I hope so anyway. If Track is Tri-Gs dad and Bristle is the mom, and they are on that stage as the Cleavers for the world to see...this is one messed up country.

Anonymous

6/3/2011 07:27:55 am

No Floyd, I don't think you are right. One photo in a newspaper proves nothing at all.

You are sending the group off track when finally it is going somewhere.

If people can actually prove that Track was in Michigan at that exact time with multiple pieces of evidence, then ok.

Or prove he was actually in the military for one year.

There is absolutely no proof of either of these two things now.

Wholy Mary definitely implied Track was involved in some way. Didn't he?

Anonymous

6/3/2011 07:31:04 am

Deb in Ohio - You are starting to sound like a Palin follower. Are you? It is ok if you are, but to say Sarah is Teflon?
It really is not true.

6/3/2011 07:38:44 am

If Keith Johnston is the father, that would explain why Mercede called Trig her little brother.

SLQ

6/3/2011 07:40:11 am

Anon 14:15. Good summary. The one thing I question is "Track wasn't really in the army." Wholy Mary insinuated there is something unusual about the fact that there are no photos of Track (though it looks like someone just posted one). So I think it's safe to assume there is something fishy about Track's service, or at least the fact that $arah talks about her "combat veteran son, but there are few photos showing her "pride" in her son.

Anon55

6/3/2011 07:41:45 am

Dr. Lily Lou is a neonatolgist in Anchorage.

If what Wholy Mary says is true (and I'm not necessarily convinced it is), Trig would have needed a neonatologist.

Now, of course Wholy Mary backtracked after saying Dr. L . . and said Dr. Lou isn't an M.D., but that could just be backtracking when he/she realized too much was said.

Dr. Lou is on staff at Providence Hospital in Anchorage, same as our good friend Dr. Baldwin-Johnson

http://providencealaska.netreturns.biz/Providers/Detail.aspx?ProviderId=16157e2c-6e9a-44b7-a4a9-4f12ae87b0ed

Dr. Lou does not have privileges at the august institution, formerly home of Dr. Baldwin-Johnson -- Mat-Su Regional Medical Center -- before Dr. Baldwin-Johnson became too "busy" to maintain her staff privileges at that august institution.

Catherine

6/3/2011 07:41:54 am

That is a photo of Track in uniform. Thank you for posting that.
It is the only one I have seen.
I could not get the video to play though. Did anyone get the video to run?

Wholy Mary said it was significant there wasn't a single photo of Track in uniform with his mom.

I agree this is getting crazy. I wish someone would just tell the truth about this. Secrets are very bad and are always associated with sexual abuse. Someone like DR CBJ must know it is NEVER good to keep secrets. It is written in every book about childhood sexual abuse. I know there are confidentiality concerns, but when secrets hurt kids and they could hurt the entire country, enough is enough!

I feel very sorry for all of the Palin children. Just having a mother like Sarah is enough to screw someone up for life, but add in the possibility of abuse?

I guess we will see if Sarah really runs or doesn't run. What if she does? What will wholy mary do?

In the meantime, on Chris Matthews, they are all laughing at Sarah. They are so stupid because they have no idea, no clue, how dangerous she is.

LTA

6/3/2011 07:48:21 am

Just a note re. the question of "Shitfire" and "Wholly Mary" being the same person-

I'm going to go on record as saying "Absolutely NOT".

If you read Shitfire's posts, they are lengthy but well reasoned and it would appear, carefully spoken. Shitfire also seems to "have the goods" in terms of posting facts, time periods, very direct clues...

Wholly Mary seems to just be throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks. Not only do I not believe Mary really knows anything...I don't think Mary REALLY is that familiar with babygate-- after all, who here hasn't seen the newspaper story about Track being IN Michigan?

Mary is trying to be coquettish and cutesy...I think she's just messing with us.

Shitfire on the other hand...seems truly conflicted and I believe wishes strongly she could tell more.

I think it would be a dire mistake to attribute Mary's rantings with the controlled and precise statements of Shitfire.

Think about this...Shitfire says she is going to take a break from reading/posting at IM because the desire to just blurt things out is overwhelming. And guess what- we haven't heard a peep from her since then. I really do think she's taking a break.

Mary says "I'm out" and directly states she is leaving the conversation. Yet two minutes later she's popping up again, tripping over her conflicting statements.

Sorry if you're offended "Mary"...but you have yet to bring any fact or bit of information which pans out.

Laura Novak link

6/3/2011 07:59:44 am

URGENT!!!

Allow me to nip this in the bud right now. Listen carefully:

I have never, NEVER spoken to Wholy Mary. I do not know her. I do not at all know that what she says is true.

I do know where Wholy Mary is. But beyond that, I know no more than you all do.

I am not, NOT confirming anything to do with illegal or questionable sexual practices and the birth of this baby. THose are not my theories at all.

I factually, truly,honestly do NOT know any more than any of you.

End of story.

Oh, and I am NOT writing the Babygate book!!! Thank you for the flattery, but I can barely get my novel launched as an ebook!!

So, let's be clear: I do NOT have any knowledge or confirmation of anything at all to do with incest. It's not my theory.

I am not writing the Babygate book.

Everyone got that? Repeat it and go forth.

Laura

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 08:04:54 am

IM requested Track's discharge papers. He posted them on his blog on Nov 2008.

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/11/tonight-spa-moves-away-from-recent.html

It shows Track was honorably discharged after 2 years, 4 mo, 11 days of service. It also shows he served for 1 year in Iraq in the Comments section.

Refusing to wear his uniform in a photo-op with his calculating mother seems like a plus to me. If you read Baily's book, her son objected to having even his hockey photos on her campaign website in 2006.

Lisabeth

6/3/2011 08:07:32 am

Laura: Thank you very much. Can you really see where each of the posts come from? That makes me very nervous. I am afraid of the Palins (Sarah and Todd).

Bree: It is great to see you here. I basically read these blogs but only have been posting a bit lately.

I thought of one more combination that no one mentioned. I know it is strange but all of this is. Could it be that Track is the father and Sherry was the mother? That would explain the "my baby brother" and it would explain why Sarah covered up (for Track). It would explain the hatred Sarah has for the Johnstons too. Perhaps oxycontin was involved, Sherry was upset when her husband left her and HELLO MRS ROBINSON.

Just an idea although Sherry is apparently sick and I thought she had a hysterectomy but I do not know when that was.

LTA

6/3/2011 08:08:41 am

Another thing I just wanted to touch on...

If your son had been the subject of rumors which basically portrayed him as an incestuous drug addled monster...and these rumors persisted for several years...and ALL you had to do in order to dispel them was show a birth certificate...wouldn't you have been getting your hands on that certificate so fast you'd need band-aids for all the paper cuts?

I also want to point out, for the people saying Britta never would have married Track if there was a chance these theories were rooted in truth...the quickie track/britta nuptials could be a classic Palin red herring- there has not been any marriage license found (to my knowledge) and along with the scarcity of Track in uniform photos...that is plain STRANGE.

LTA

6/3/2011 08:23:31 am

Lisabeth, you could well be onto something. I always thought it odd that Sherry Johnston was SO emphatic about when she had her hysterectomy...remember around the time of Tripp's alleged birth, Sherry said in several media outlets (including Palin go-to rag, People) that she had had the surgery "eight years ago". She was so specific so many times...

I have to wonder if Mercede's stand off in her blog today and the detailed comments by Shitfire are part or parcel to do with Sarah suddenly flying home? Didn't she say just yesterday that there was "so much more" to see?

I also wondered if any of the "insiders" who have said we'll see Trig soon (simply because so many are pointing out his absence) but he will be "asleep" are going to be proven right? Very interested to see how that turns out.

Floyd M. Orr link

6/3/2011 08:28:46 am

YAAAAY! We have the answer to Question #55. Laura Novak is not writing a Babygate book. That's two down; only 94 more to go. (I addressed Question 6 in a post earlier today.) Thank you, Laura, for your honest reply!

Anon

6/3/2011 08:28:54 am

If Wholy Mary is leading us down a very sordid path just for the sake of what? I don't know, I am sick to hear it.

Banyan

6/3/2011 08:30:38 am

As "Rubbernecking" pointed out, SARAH PALIN is the person who perpetrated a hoax here, along with her Republican helpers and enablers.

I would hope we keep our focus on that fact, rather than chasing down incest theories involving the other children.

Again, I want to emphasize that there is virtually NO way the baby (babies) presented by Palin as "Trig" during and after the RNC was a ever a "startlingly" premature baby.

There had to have been some big time baby swapping by Sarah and her friends/enablers.

The baby (babies) presented by the Palins and their campaign handlers were far too old-looking and robust.

Extremely preterm infants and children, by contrast, bear the marks of extreme prematurity (emaciation, poor growth, misshapen heads, scars everywhere, pale, translucent skin with veins prominently visible) for many years -- some for a lifetime.

They often look abnormal and unhealthy (and not in a DS sort of way).

The only way in which the current "Trig(s)" looks visibly "preemie" is in his marked strabismus (badly crossed eyes).

I also wonder about Anon 4:32's statement that diagnosis of "syndromes" was delayed for some time after delivery. Why would that have been done?

These tests would or should have been underway immediately, because they might have had important treatment implications, even immediately after birth.

These tests usually pose no additional stress or risk to the baby, beyond that associated with normal NICU life-saving treatment.

The baby's blood and other DNA is continually being sampled starting (at the latest) from the moment of delivery.

Most such diagnoses, in my experience, are made within hours or days after delivery no matter how sick or premature the baby. (There are a few syndromes and viral disorders that may take a bit longer to return results, but DS testing can be done relatively quickly.)

I'm quite sure, along with the rest of you, that the Palins live sordid lives on many levels, but, please, let's not get side-tracked (so to speak)

This is first and foremost about SARAH'S hoaxes and who helped her with them.

So Popera

6/3/2011 08:40:43 am

WOW !!! What a thread !!

It reads like the kind of soap opera plotline that gets rejected as too far-fetched.

The sad part is that it has the ring of possibility because we're talking about Sarah, the Patron Saint of Alternate Realities.

So...some thoughts, a few questions and more than a little wild-eyed babbling:

A while back, History or Discovery Channel broadcast a docu which unearthed a 1943 psychological profile of Hitler commissioned (I think) by Churchill and which was not only later proven to be amazingly accurate, but also made some astoundingly accurate predictions -- like, not only would Hitler commit suicide AND ultimately take most of Germany down with him, but he'd most probably kill himself with a gun ... etc.

It got me thinking ...

Since Mama Grizzly's been SUCH a media whore, there's a LOT more information about HER than what the British could dig up on Hitler back in '43.

In my dreams, the anti-Palin folks (call us the "Palin-BLOTS" ?) would locate and, if necessary, take up a collection to pay for a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist/FBI profiler-type to create a VERY in-depth and revealing psychological profile of Palin -- a woman who (at least in the opinion of THIS "armchair shrink") bears all the markings of being a textbook narcissist and sociopath.

F'rinstance: how many times has Sarah told completely unnecessary -- and therefore potentially pathological -- lies when she could just as easily have told the truth ?

How many loyal, hard-working people has she discarded, demeaned or even destroyed, sometimes with little or no provocation ?

Can anyone cite a SINGLE instance of Sweet Sister Sarah ever offering a genuine, heartfelt public APOLOGY of ANY sort to ANYone ? Ever ???

Has she ever expressed genuine empathy for anyone or shown anything more than the most superficial sort of warmth toward anyone ? (Like Todd or her kids ?)

Etc. etc.

That's just the tip of the iceberg of the reasons to believe that her narcissism and sociopathy are so demonstrably and provably extreme that she's literally psychotic -- and therefore capable of doing absolutely ANYTHING that pops into her warped (but empty) head without feeling the slightest pang of conscience.

The Point: this whole Trig saga is SO TOTALLY bizarre and SO RIDICULOUSLY involved that, try to explain it to a "non-believer" and it's very easy to come off sounding like a spiral-eyed, "the moon landing was faked" kind of conspiracy-clinging kook.

("Pictures ... ? You want me to believe a former Governor of Alaska and candidate for Vice President of the United States actually FAKED A PREGNANCY based on ... pictures ???")

Even worse, it seems virtually impossible that the truth of Trig will ever be backed up with the kind of solid, legally-obtained, court-admissable proof that it becomes the proverbial straw which breaks the mama grizzly's back.

And say that such proof DOES magically surface. Then what ?

What would that accomplish ? Proving that a bizarre, nutsy-sounding scandal was true ?

Unfortunately, it's not a sure thing. I think it's entirely possible that the whole damned, dirty deed could very well just slide right off Palin's astonishingly effective teflon coating of charisma and big boobed, high-hemlined, winkety-wink seductiveness. (She sure has managed to wink and word-salad her way through a stack of lesser scandals so far.)

HOWEVER ... after reading this thread with all its new revelations of how deep the Trig-Truth tentacles might reach plus considering just how far genuine narcissist-sociopaths can go to cover up her own coverups ... what if those tentacles really do reach all the way to an actual CRIME -- or better yet, CRIMES ... ?

What if Sarah has, in her psychotic state, blundered her way deeper and deeper until the only "logical" (for her) next step was the commission of a real and very major crime ... ? -- something for which she could be ARRESTED, put on TRIAL in a COURT where witness testimony and physical evidence could be entered into the court record and a jury could come back with the single sweetest word we could ever hear directed at so great a grifter: "Guilty on all counts !" ... ?

NO ONE -- not even Saint Sarah with all her potty-mouthed bots and private, personal hotline to God -- could survive being convicted of multiple felonies.

The mere thought of FINALLY seeing Palin collide with an unsympathetic, unswayable court of law does, I'm only slightly ashamed to admit, make me slightly giddy.

I mean, it would ALMOST make up for those totally hypothetical crimes plus her innumerable violations of the public's trust -- all that false-faced patriotism, baldfaced lies, vile and truthless attacks on Obama et al, her endless shakedown of donations to "Help ME to SAVE America!" when SHE'S one of its biggest threats.

(Did you know, by the way, that because of the way Sarah PAC was created, its money -- virtua

Banyan

6/3/2011 08:40:45 am

I'm afraid my nex-to-last sentence above could be mis-interpreted.

What I should have said was: "I am quite sure, as most of you are quite sure, that the Palins live sordid lives....

Sorry "bout that

Lisabeth

6/3/2011 08:43:58 am

The person writing at IM said that she was present at the birth of Trig, but that Sarah was not present. I find that weird if the mother was Bristol. Wouldn't Sarah want to be there, with her very young (16?) year old daughter? I would.
I wish Mercedes would really be honest with us. Maybe she has been but I just don't know anymore. The whole thing is scary but I am hopeful it scares Sarah from running. Although the other candidates are awful as well.

So Popera

6/3/2011 08:45:43 am

Rant, Part 2:

(Did you know, by the way, that because of the way Sarah PAC was created, its money -- virtually all of it donated from individuals -- can be used for practicaly anything Palin chooses, including paying her mortgage ? Her ignorant, brainwashed bots may very well have helped pay for that new $1.6 million Arizona mansion.)

BUT ... I digress.

What I'm getting at is this: supposed for a moment that the ultimate purpose of Babygate is NOT that it discredits her enough to shut her up but instead provides the link to and motives for some other, much darker deeds ? (Like this story could get any darker ?)

Suppose for a further moment that a psychotic narcissist/sociopath was so desperate to cover up the fact that she faked a pregnancy (or else lose EVERYthing she's worked so hard to get -- all that yummy, yummy money!) that she felt compelled to go WAAAAY beyond the usual intimidation, harrassment, threats of job loss and siccing her minions on those who dare to reveal her dirty secrets ?

A REAL narcissist/sociopath -- especially one guided by the voice of God -- could easily resort to crime to avoid being exposed.

All people who've posted their potentially life-threatening revelations -- why the heck should they stick their necks out by going public ?

To expose a scandal ? -- a scandal so outrageous that even WITH their sworn testimiony it might ultimately fail to permanently silence the Oracle of Wasilla ?

HOWEVER ... if -- and this is a massive, pie-in-the-sky "if" so bear with -- IF some person or, better yet, persons, were willing to come forward to TESTIFY about a certain narcissist/sociopath's role in, say, the church arson ? The nurse's murder by arson ? Perhaps even how these crimes (and maybe a few others still to be unearthed) had been carried out with the help of a group of well-armed loons who believe in Alaska's secession ... ?

Of course, there'd have to be some solid LINK between said psycho and said extremist group -- somebody close to said psycho to have his/her trust but would therefore be in so deep that he/she could never turn rat. Stop wearing a wedding ring, sure, but go states' evidence on his/her psycho spouse ? Never.

Never, that is, until granted full immunity in return for his/her testimony maybe ?

Of course, this would all hinge on one teeny-tiny "Bring me the broom of the wicked witch" task: convincing any, all, or as many as possible of the witnesses to come forward to testify ... in public, with the whole world watching, against a group of secretive, violent and extremely powerful defendants, one of whom is most probably certifiably insane.

Would it be enough if those witnesses could somehow be given a GUARANTEE that they would not be alone but would instead be part of a group ? How about if along with being granted total immunity from prosecution, they're also guaranteed ultra-secure witness protection ?

Reality check: this is, I'm sure, all mere pipe dreamery and I hope it doesn't sound TOO wack-o. I swear that (other than my breath in the morning) I'm not dangerous.

What I AM is appalled and angry that someone as verifiably crooked and fraudulent as Sarah Palin has for over 3 years now somehow managed to overcome the reams of evidence attesting to her selfishness, incompetence and venality and is STILL filling the airwaves with her ignorant nincompoopery and her pockets with the hard-earned donations of her gullible yet well-intentioned citizens ... all by wrapping herself in the sacred American flag and claiming that God Himself guides her decisions.

In truth, she's desecrated both and thereby diminished us all.

6/3/2011 08:49:31 am

curiouser

6/3/2011 08:49:54 am

Bree - Hi! Keith didn't leave AK. At least, he stayed on the Permanent Fund rolls in '08 and '09. Also, recall he was around and was interviewed when Levi got in trouble with the apprentice job on the slope. There's also a photo of Keith holding Tripp at the Palins home. Somehow, I doubt he would have shown up there is there were nefarious deeds. There was also a point where Levi was supposedly working with him.

Permanent Fund Applicant Database
http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/applicantinfo/index.aspx

Conscious at last!

6/3/2011 08:54:13 am

@ Banyan

I think you are confusing a few things.

No one claimed that the baby at the RNC was startlingly premature. The claim was that Trig was born in Feb.'08 at which point he was very premature.

I know there are some honest attempts here to look at individual issues, but I am surprised by how many "well meaning" folks who "dislike" Palin are SOOOO
concerned that we stay off the incest angle. Curious indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now the following is a comment from Mercede Johnston's latest blogpost:

Mercede, You know don't you that all these people don't give a damn about you. All they want is to convince you that they love and adore you so you will eventually tell the evil truth about how Palin had to fake Trig as her own in order to cover up for your naughty family.

Well don't tell them. And I don't have to tell you that because you aren't going to tell on your family anyway are you. It's just too sick a story to ever tell.
Love, Me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The wording here is significant.

Palin "HAD TO" fake Trig as her own..hmmm "to cover for your naughty family..."

There are obviously a number of connections between the Johnstons and the Palins that they would NOT like revealed. Both families know ugly secrets about the other, but the Palins have more power and money so they have the upper hand for now. I suspect that the secrets involve illegal activities as well as interpersonal (sexual) activities.

I've heard that Palin went back to Alaska today-- does anyone have confirmation of that?

molly malone

6/3/2011 08:54:57 am

Much as I would like to believe that Wholy Mary and the health care worker who posted on IM are legit, I'm not seeing much in the way of concrete evidence that wasn't already out there.

Palin's "Wild Ride" never happened. Check. We knew that.

Medically impossible for her to get pregnant in 2008. Check. We heard that.

Trig not born at Mat Su. Check. (At least not when he was said to be born there--we knew that)

Trig was born prematurely several months earlier. Check. We thought that, too.

The stumbling block for me is that anyone who has been doing their homework on this could have written the same script--up to a point. It's when things start getting cryptic and the writer gives out hints, without providing any clues as to how one could substantiate the information, that a questioning eyebrow goes up.

Not saying Wholy Mary is not telling the truth. Just saying that for now I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

6/3/2011 09:08:27 am

So very frustrating that well-sourced pictures clearly showing Palin with a flat belly when she claimed to be in her third trimester are not enough proof. There is no explanation other than she isn't pregnant. Is there?

Back that up with the fact that there is absolutely NO evidence of pregnancy that can't be explained in the alternative, e.g., she wore an empathy belly or pillow, she presented rather than delivered a baby on April 18. Is there?

If Palin had not enjoyed the tight abs comments so obviously and had dropped the self-serving statements after April 18 instead of continuing to seek votes and money by lying about her amnio, her choice to carry a DS baby to term, her speech with labor pains, her wild ride, etc. then MAYBE if she were protecting Track or Bristol from horrible scandal, MAYBE her base would forgive her for faking a pregnancy. But Palin has used and still uses that fake pregnancy for everything she can, totally unrelated to protecting anyone. Often quite the opposite.

I don't need to know who Trig's bio parents are. I know Sarah Palin while a sitting Governor faked a pregnancy and lied about a birth. And she's still lying about it and using it. And the spiral of silence--and insanity--continues.

Help! I'm in an alternate universe!

LTA

6/3/2011 09:23:40 am

Lisabeth...I THINK you may have misread part of 4:32's statement. (although I apologize in advance if it is I who have done so)

You point out that she said SHE was at Trig's birth but Sarah was not. I believe what she actually said was that CBJ was there and Sarah was not.

I have read and re-read the comments and if you really look at it from a black and white perspective...pretty much everything she said cow,d be gleaned from medical records. Or the total absence of them whet they should be.

Banyan...although I think some hospitals routinely test for everything under the sun before the baby's other shoulder is delivered...it's not ALWAYS the case.

My second was born at 26w1d and was a scary emergency delivery due to preeclampsia which was only a shade away from HELPP syndrome.

My baby weighed 2 pounds, .5 ounces (yes, when they are that small, we count the "point five" ounces)

Although we were told about an endless list of "possible" issues, many were not tested for until he was stable, over 3 pounds, taking 30 mls of breast milk per feeding, etc. I remember at the time, our neonatologist said if they saw concerns toward any specific issue, they would run tests, and that we would need to do several hearing and vision tests as our son grew. But I really do not think they tested "DNA" or for a predetermined laundry list of problems hours or days after birth. They checked his heart, lungs, brain, & kidney functions pretty fast, though.

Also just for reference sake...this was in 2006 at one of the best level III nicu's in my state. I do not believe my son's care was compromised in any way simply because they didn't test for "everything" right away. And my two pound little scrapper is not quite a chunky monkey (like his 9lb2oz brother) but he is finally ON the growth chart! He's doing great and we thank God for his life every day. I can't imagine being away from him like Sarah is away from Trig. Even if she didn't birth him...how can she not miss him and not go to any lengths to be in his everyday life??

I am NOT trying to say you are wrong, Banyan! Only that our experiences can be vastly different from one baby/mother/hospital/time period to the next. IF Trig was "stunningly" premature...there may have been several days or weeks of just getting him to survive...and not instantly having a whole battery of genetic and other testing done.

Banyan

6/3/2011 09:31:35 am

@ Conscious at last:

Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning.

What I am trying to say is: the baby born startlingly premature in February could NOT have grown up to be the robust baby (babies) presented as Trig at the RNC and beyond.

As for the incest part, it just doesn't seem necessary to Sarah's Pregnancy Hoax story, and could take us down some fruitless by-ways, when the main focus of the story (at least for the moment) should be Palin and her enblers.

@4:32 Anon

I wonder if the arguments over the name- names to put on the birth certificate might have some bearing on the rather cryptic quote someone left on Gryphen's blog sometime ago; It was something like "Trig was Tripp before he was Trig" or perhaps it was the other way around? Does anyone have that quote handy?

Jewels

6/3/2011 09:36:36 am

Quote: The person writing at IM said that she was present at the birth of Trig, but that Sarah was not present. I find that weird if the mother was Bristol. Wouldn't Sarah want to be there, with her very young (16?) year old daughter? I would.

My guess: Sarah wasn't there so that no one would find out that the Governor's daughter was giving birth. It was all a big secret. Sarah could too easily be recognized.

Lisabeth

6/3/2011 09:37:44 am

LTA, thank you. There are so many details. I think what stuck in my mind was that Sarah was NOT at the birth of Trig according to that person-

Lisabeth

6/3/2011 09:42:03 am

Jewels, makes sense to me. My head is spinning and I have wasted the day reading from blog to blog to keep up. I have got to pull away from this. It is like a soap opera only these are real people and I feel bad we are talking about it at all. The only person right now I don't feel sorry for is Sarah.
We may never know the whole truth and maybe that is meant to be.
I will be glad if she doesn't run and doesn't have such a negative effect on the discourse in our country.

fromafar

6/3/2011 09:45:04 am

OK here's my guess on who Wholly Mary is - he's got to be Frank Bailey. The obvious threat to Sarah to quit campaigning indicates its someone she knows well and would recognize in the threat. The 4:32 poster at IM tells us in almost disgust that Frank Knows. Who else could fit in the small list of people who know that Mary listed for us? Also Mary's comment about already being in some trouble would fit with Frank ( ie his book). Sarah knows he knows -- he's reluctant to tell on her but seriously does not what her trying to be president. Makes sense to me.

curiouser

6/3/2011 09:51:13 am

I'm in the skeptic camp for both IM's Anon 4:32 and Wholly Mary. I'm uncomfortable with the emphasis both of them placed on encouraging us to move away from proving the fake pregnancy and toward focusing on the conspiratorial which can't be proven true unless someone goes on the record.

I don't know if Brad and Laura have followed babygate blog comment sections and realize that the 'insiders' didn't present new information, except for Wholly Mary's mention of 'Dr. L'.

Wholly Mary said, "So what audience is this blog and other blogs playing to? Not those who haven't yet accepted that Palin faked it but those who are certain that she did. I'm really saying, it's time to move ont to [sic[ solving the riddle completely in order to finally make sense of it and lay the question to rest FOR THOSE WHO KNOW." [caps added]

My hopes and intention are the opposite: that we'd work toward breaking the 'Spiral of Silence' on Sarah's fake pregnancy.

6/3/2011 10:25:12 am

Brad & Laura, thanks for another great post. Shoulder on!

Maybe those linebacker shoulders were amniotic fluid since they disappeared with the belly after April 18. A couple of days later in the office, her shoulders are back to normal. Miraculous.

6/3/2011 10:34:52 am

Brad,I don't think Palin's failure to buy cute maternity clothes is much of a sign of no pregnancy. She was not a careful or fashionable dresser until the RNC taught her to be spiffy.

LTA

6/3/2011 10:38:22 am

Curiouser, I didn't notice that 4:32 was trying to "steer us away"...I felt she was trying as valiantly possible to steer us toward something. She didn't really roll out anything totally new, just added some perspective, I think.

I felt in my gut that W Mary was just messing with us...she would say something inconsistent such as Track didn't go to Michigan...then when someone would point out her gaffe, she would suddenly be "YEAH, that's totally what I SAID!"

Obviously I'm in the minority, but I feel 4:32 at IM has at least not impeached her own credibility, as W Mary has (to my eyes) done several times just in this one thread.

We're still at the same bottom line we've been at for all these long three years...this gate will not bend or break until someone with hard core, IN HAND proof comes forward from behind the scenes and on the record.

I would love to believe Mercede's "it's on now" poet from today...but cripes, we have heard it ALL.

Until the MSM does at least a crappy version of the actual JOB they are supposed to do and Sarah Palin is forced to answer some hard questions...we will be sitting here, treading virtual water, and for m eat least....feeling like I will scream because I don't understand how people can not be GETTING THIS???

molly malone

6/3/2011 10:48:58 am

And speaking of those linebacker shoulders, Brad, you can calculate just how excessively wide they are by using head-length (crown to chin) measurements. Under normal circumstances, I believe Palin is about average for women--1 and 1/2 head-lengths wide at the shoulders.

FYI, in case you want to check out the height on those shoulders: average = 1 head-length from chin to top of armpit, and this may give you something to work with in order to begin to calculate just how much higher the linebacker shoulders may be than is normal for Palin.

Anonymous

6/3/2011 10:53:45 am

fromafar, I thought EXACTLY the same thing! Of course it is Frank Bailey. He has loads of emails he hasn't released and didn't put in his book.

But why the 8 month wait if it is him?

DebinOH

6/3/2011 10:54:27 am

OMG, whoever thought I was a Palinbot has lost their mind. I wish I had NEVER ever heard this woman's name. I have followed this story FOREVER. Nowhere EVER have I said anything that would suggest I even remotely like this woman. I can't stand her.

I am sorry but this woman has so far been Teflon coated. If you can give me an ounce of evidence that she isn't I would like to know.

The fact that this woman has gotten as far as she has is UNBELIEVABLE! I don't know anyone who could have lived politically through half of the crap she has done. There isn't one "gate" that wouldn't have taken anyone else down. Have you EVER seen the lamestream media let someone get away with anything this woman has done? I sure as hell haven't.

I have admitted that I am on the fence about the entire birth thing. She is f*cking nuts and I could see her putting a pillow under her shirt as well as putting a super girdle on and going on the wild ride. She had everything to gain by hiding this pregnancy. Does anyone honestly think that any republican would have looked at her if they new she was pregnant and going to have a newborn?

Having a Down syndrome baby sealed the deal IF McCain won the nomination. He could not get the right wing vote - no way, no how. Honestly, I could also see the crazy christian people (think James Dobson, etc.) setting her up with a Down syndrome child so they could win the election.

This whole think stinks to high heaven no matter how it went down. Sarah is a martyr. She would use stuffing a pillow under her shirt as honorable and her idiot followers would just send her more money and support her all the more. These people believe everything she says. They are as dumb as her.

All I did is ask how ANY scenario will hurt her? It doesn't mean I don't care. It doesn't mean I like her. If you read my posts anywhere you would know this.

Give me a scenario that will hurt her - I want to know - seriously! The only way I think it could hurt her is that if Dobson or Graham did give her a baby to use. I still think she could say something like she just wanted to show people that abortions weren't the answer. She just wanted another baby to love, blah, blah, blah.

To the poster who mentioned that she thinks she is Esther. I was a born-again christian in the movement until I woke up and now I am an atheist. I get that all she had to do is say she was a Christian and all was okay in their world. You could be the devil himself and if he said he was a christian they wouldn't even ask a question. Say it and it is so.

Tada

6/3/2011 11:01:52 am

My theory is that Bristol may have "made herself available" in exchange for "flowers" and Keith Johnston may have been one of the "John's" handing out "flowers"... It's an awful theory that I hope is not true, but based on everything I've read, it's my best guess.

My theory is based on the following facts and assumptions:
- Bristol called herself "a slut" around the time she would have gotten pregnant
- Bristol was referring to "huge stashes"; maybe referring to cash and not drugs?
- Bristol named her second child "Tripp", which is the same name as the last name of Todd's prositute
- Both the Palin family and the Johnston family knows the truth, but is keeping quiet
- Mercede Johnston called Trig her "baby brother"
- Keith Johnston divorced his wife and moved away and have kept a low profile since
- Sherry Johnston got arrested for dealing drugs and it's been suggested Bristol was setting her up; as a revenge Sherry "outing" her and Keith?

-

Tada

6/3/2011 11:07:31 am

DebinOH, I think I just gave you a scenario that would hurt her. And it also explains why everyone is quiet, including the entire Palin family and Johnston family.

DebinOH

6/3/2011 11:14:26 am

Tada - believe me I would love to believe this but even if it was Keith I don't see how this hurts Sarah. Do you remember when the religious right found out Brisol was pregnant? Nothing, nada, zip. All I remember hearing was that every family has their trials and tribulations. Of course if you are an evil liberal then you caused your child to become pregnant. You are an awful mother, etc. She got a free pass just because she was a christian and a republican one to boot!

Not only that but being from that world they really would believe that the devil is trying to prevent Sarah from running and then they would feel sorry for her all the more. Believe me, they would.

6/3/2011 11:19:57 am

no surprise that Palin is on her way home. She's just been making the briefest of stops for photo ops in each location. And based upon her retelling of Paul Revere's ride, she learned nothing. There aren't enough voters in Maine & Vermont to attract her.

comeonpeople

6/3/2011 11:28:40 am

Laure,
maelewis over at politcalgates posted a link t the national enquirer, with a photo of willow and Sarah and a baby with deforemd fingers. I never saw this photo before, or if i did i never noticed the fingers. What baby could this be?? And does RNC Tri-G have normal fingers? why yes he does.
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/exclusive-SARAH%20PALIN-%20removes-wild-child-%20daughter-%20Willow-out-of-high-school-for-home-schooling%2C%20home-schooled%20

molly malone

6/3/2011 11:39:11 am

I believe we would be well advised to put unsubstantiated "insider" cryptic claims on hold until they can be solidly verified.

Think about it.

I can see Palin rolling her eyes and saying, "These people are so crazy, they not only say Trig is not my son, they're now saying that incest was involved!"

Whoa. Talk about a quick way to lose credibility! Without solid proof of Trig's parentage--and there is none--all the efforts of serious bloggers goes poof.

We have enough solid, well documented evidence to sink her. We don't need to wander off into the ick factor. Which we cannot possibly prove anyway.

That's my take on it.

Conscious at last

6/3/2011 12:04:20 pm

For those who feel that Wholy Mary and IM@4:32 have added nothing new:

I think that 4:32 claims that Dar Miller WAS ASKED to care for Trig.
You can question the veracity of this statement-- but it IS new.

4:32 has also stated that the goal of the church fire WAS INDEED to destroy (adoption?) records--- again a new affirmative statement.

Wholy Mary is clearly trying to point the discussion in a particular direction-- i.e. stop debating what we all agree on, that SP faked the pregnancy. Instead move forward to understand the larger picture into which this hoax fits. Secondly, Wholy Mary is clearly trying to tell Sarah that she had better not try to run a real campaign for POTUS. In fact, as I read Wholy Mary, s/he is saying, in effect: Sarah Palin- you will NOT BE ALLOWED to run for the presidency, so cut the crap.

Michael

6/3/2011 12:27:45 pm

molly malone says: "I can see Palin rolling her eyes and saying, "These people are so crazy, they not only say Trig is not my son,.................."

Good thinking molly. It's not hard for us to see Palin saying to herself, "they think Trig is not my son." What would any mother say when she is faced with a conspiracy theory such as this? That's exactly what Sarah, the mother of Trig is thinking!

Really good thinking molly! And hey, I bet she was thinking of how she could prevent the amniotic fluid from running down her legs and into the aisle on the plane during her wild ride too. Do you think so too molly? Why, if any of the passengers had seen the wet carpet around Sarah they would have been absolutely appalled that Sarah would take a wild ride just hours, no minutes, before giving birth in Wasi........ hey wait a minute molly........

SLQ

6/3/2011 12:29:21 pm

I think it's interesting that Wholy Mary is aware that Laura knows her location (from her position as blog owner) and has stated that Track was wherever-it-is rather than in Michigan. It's almost like she gave Laura a clue and is challenging her to follow up.

It will be interesting to see if Laura does follow up on that little breadcrumb and, if so, if she finds anything worthwhile.

If so, that would be an indication that Mary is telling the truth.

Michael

6/3/2011 12:33:48 pm

And then did you hear the one about the possibly padded shoulders? Well there's a chance that Palin's shoulders were padded and that would indicate to us that she had some kind of device on that made her shoulders look larger. And so if she was wearing some kind of device to make her look pregnant then does that mean that she really wasn't ........ uh, just a minute now, was Sarah pregnant with Trig in that picture and does that mean that..............?????
Maybe we should measure the width of her shoulders and compare it with her head and her ass to see if it's normal then we'll know for sure if Sarah faked.......
It's so confusing isn't it. Will we ever be able to answer these questions on whether or not sarah faked, a.... pr... trig..... ??.....??

bob

6/3/2011 12:36:34 pm

I agree with Molly Malone and others who believe the focus of this chat should be on Gov Palin and what she did or did not do, and not on some of the seamier subplots surrounding this mess. But I concede the temptation to speculate on these matters is probably too great.

One thing I just don’t get is the motivation—why not just adopt the baby
(assuming he was born to bristol or someone else in this close circle) as he was already born, rather than go thru the pregnancy charade? Wouldn’t the adoption process be subject to as much confidentiality as the medical process? Wouldn’t all the good will that would flow to Palin for adopting a DS baby be just as strong as
the adulation she received for birthing one? I think the weak part of this story is that all of the supposed known benefits of the hoax could have been achieved thru other means. What would be the benefit that could only be achieved thru Mrs. Palin herself giving birth to this child?

SLQ

6/3/2011 12:49:08 pm

Micheal -- I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Bob -- She's not "Gov" Palin. If you want to use her title, try "half-term governor Palin."

The "subplots" you want to ignore spell out a few scenarios that would be a benefit over adopting her child's child. Specifically, that she doesn't have to admit that her child had a child under icky circumstances. There's really no way around that, and it kinda proves the point that something was funky with the conception/birth. It may be unpleasant, but it does explain the whole thing.

Molly didn't say to ignore or abandon these theories, just to find facts to support them before discussing them at length. There's a big difference, governor.

Conscious at last!

6/3/2011 12:49:34 pm

@ bob

Hmm..... you agree with Molly about not looking at possible "seamier" subplots.... but then you go directly there yourself.

You ask: "What would be the benefit... achieved thru SP herself giving birth...?"

Well, bob, to answer your totally reasonable question, we need to consider many possibilities, now don't we?

molly malone

6/3/2011 12:54:17 pm

Conscious at last, I'm having trouble with that church fire. Is it customary for churches to serve as repositories for adoption records? I mean, why? Wouldn't that fall more in the Provence of some state or federal agency? Can't quite wrap my head around why that would present a threat to anyone. (Understand from the get-go here that my ignorance of church practices is a given.)

Yes, we do have Wholy Mary's claim that Dar Miller was asked to care for Trig but we have no way of knowing if this is true.

And yes, Mary is clearly trying to point us in another direction, and sending a warning-off message to Palin.

The thing that troubles me, Conscious at last, is that you and/or I, knowing as much as we do know, could have told the same tale and tossed in some made up stuff, had we wanted to. Easy enough to do. Intermingling fact with faux is a fraudster's stock in trade. Which is why I'm still standing at arm's length on this one.

6/3/2011 12:56:33 pm

@Jewelz: another reason that Sarah might not have been at the birth - besides not wanting to attract publicity - is because it might have been rather sudden. Premature births often are, and because the baby's smaller, delivery is easier/quicker.

I must say that I'm with rubbernecking and several others on this thread - my primary goal is to expose Sarah. The speculation on who might be the father - and we've seen various names - Track, Todd, Keith, Levi, Chuck - bandied about. Since only one of them could be the father, it means that the others are not, and it's pretty icky even to put their names up, especially as several of them imply incest.

Several have suggested that because CBJ worked with rape/incest victims, that means that Bristol was the victim of rape or incest. Certainly it's possible - but not necessary for CBJ's involvement. CBJ was already the family practitioner for the Palins - and could be relied upon to be discreet. They would naturally turn to her.

If only Anon 4:32 would come forward! She wouldn't have to publish anything about the birth - just the tubal litigation.

If credible information was published regarding the tubal litigation, do you think the MSM would wake up? Or would they treat Sarah like the miracle mother?

6/3/2011 01:04:15 pm

If Wholy Mary is right about the the list of people "in the know," then wouldn't it be easy for the Paylins & maybe others to figure out who he is?

molly malone

6/3/2011 01:09:29 pm

Michael, in order to properly respond to your comments, it would be helpful to know if you're deliberately being obtuse or your were born that way.

FrostyAK

6/3/2011 01:22:20 pm

So many points made here. I'm going to try to give my impressions. I must say that I got chills all over from reading parts of the discussion.

1. I have always been suspicious about the church fire. If adoption paperwork WAS stored there, then it makes a lot of sense in palin's whacky world to set fire to it. Remember her connections to Franklin Graham. The fact that the fire was essentially covered up after she publicly claimed to be a VICTIM always made me suspicious.

2 Dar Miller's death has been a mystery since it occurred. NO information has been available other than she died in the fire. That continues to bother me, the timing was just too coincidental. This was the part of the discussion that gave me chills.

3. On paternity. There is evidence of DS in the palin family already - the young cousin in Dillingham (on her reality show). IF Track is actually Todd's son (and not Curt Menard's), then IMO that combination would be much more apt to produce a DS baby. Also if Todd is the father, the same applies. Both Track and Bristol abused alcohol and drugs - fact, as known all over town. Pot and alcohol for sure, meth and oxycotin very likely ( Wasilla IS the meth capitol of AK). Maybe the extremely premature baby was DS as well as FAS or meth/oxy/crack addicted? Unsure about Keith J's drug use, but it was rumored.

4. On the AIP and the 'palin mafia' - there is potential danger to locals from both entities. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence of collusion between the law enforcement in the state and the palins. Payoffs and blackmail are the least of the possibilities. This is not science fiction...

5. Rape and incest are a common occurance in AK, unfortunately. Worst case scenario is that $P was a participant in the whole conception. You want icky? That's icky.

6. As for Track's whereabouts when he left Wasilla, think about the connections the palin's have with Franklin Graham - he could place stories about Track being anywhere. The Talibangelicals are VERY powerful in this country.

As long as $P does not get anywhere near the White House, and is finally made to pay for her crimes, I really don't care much about who Tri G's parents really are. May the spiral of silence finally break, and give to $P everything she so richly deserves (preferably in an orange jumpsuit).

IMO, anyone who refers to the Twitter Quitter as Gov Palin cannot be taken seriously (palinbots just can't help themselves).

Conscious at last!

6/3/2011 01:27:38 pm

molly malone- Hi-

First, re: church records

There are many adoptions that are carried out via private agencies and churches. There are churches that are connected to networks that will receive children for adoption in their attempt to reduce abortions, etc. Of course some aspects of the record keeping must be submitted to certain government agencies.

Secondly re new info:
Actually, it was IM @ 4:32 (not Wholy Mary) who claimed that Dar Miller WAS asked to care for Trig.

Now, as for the question of what can we believe: I look for patterns, for overall forms of expression and for the seeming connection of the "leak" to other things happening in the larger world that may be causing or supporting these various leaks. It's a matter of personal judgement, gut reaction, if you will.

While I remain skeptical of individuals, I have a clear sense that there are "movements under the sea" to insure that Palin is dead politically. She can remain a reality show clown and media whore, but not a serious candidate.
That is just my take on the situation at present. It could all change.

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 01:28:14 pm

Regarding the church fire, has anyone identified any news article that confirms that the arsonist was actually inside the church? The ADN articles I read said "Accelerants were found in multiple locations on the ***outside*** of Wasilla Bible Church, including around entrances and exits, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives."

Read more: http://www.adn.com/2008/12/15/623876/accelerant-poured-around-palins.html

If you had access to a file cabinet that contained incriminating documents you needed to destroy, would you a) pour accelerant into the drawer, ignite them, and try to escape the burning building OR B) steal the incriminating documents OR C) remove and replace the documents with something less incriminating?

Banyan

6/3/2011 01:32:15 pm

@ LTA

I, too, am the mother of a premature baby whose birthweight was about the same as your son's.

My child was born "startlingly early" because of a rare, often hard to diagnose, condition.

Nevertheless, a diagnosis was made from a routine cord blood analysis taken at the time of delivery, and we were informed the next day.

WIth another of my pregnancies (full-term, this time) I shared a room with a mom whose full-term, healthy-seeming, newborn was conclusively diagnosed with DS the day after delivery.

I am also a perinatal researcher, and have spent a great deal of recent time in level 3 NICU around the country and abroad.

And, no, testing for every conceivable syndrome and disorder may not happen immediately, if ever.

Some syndromes may never be tested unless the infant or child has symptoms warranting a test.

But DS is a common disorder, and babies with DS are commonly born prematurely.

Even in extremely preterm infants, there are some easily observable physical signs if the baby has Down Syndrome.

For example, soon after my preemie's birth, I checked for the "simian" palmar crease of DS -- not there in this case, thank heaven.

I'm reasonably certain the docs who were doing the resuscitation, Apgar scoring, and other careful post-partum evaluations also checked for such signs.

DS is common enough that it is (or should be) considered in any birth.

Where other signs of DS are present (simian crease, for example), it can (or should be) quickly and conclusively diagnosed.

These suspicions and diagnoses may not always be shared in a timely manner with parents, however.

SLQ

6/3/2011 01:38:50 pm

Rubbernecking: Why speculate about what a criminal might do, when criminals are not always known to be the most brilliant? If it is true that only the records were destroyed, and the purpose was to destroy them, the fire was probably set for that purpose. Speculating about how GOOD criminals may have done it is pointless.

If I were trying to investigate said incident, I would D) try to get the public record on the crime. According to several sources, including Anon 4:32, this is not possible.

Jewels

6/3/2011 01:43:49 pm

From Phil Munger's PA Blog

Anonymous said...
CBJ is a specialist in child sexual abuse. Think about that and about why so many people, even people who don't like or respect the Palins are willing to keep the secret. When it comes out, even liberals who hate Palin won't be able to celebrate and will just feel..disgusted. And before you jump to conclusions, it's still not what you think. People are not protecting SP. They are protecting the innocents involved. SP will have no one besides herself to blame b/c just like Edwards she should have shunned the spotlight knowing the horrible skeletons in her and her family's closet.

And CBJ has already signed a statement re Trig, it is just not public yet.
February 24, 2010 8:17 PM

Anonymous said...
There have been a number of questions about my post that CBJ has signed a statement and here's what I will say. The truth is known and has been know in Rep. circles in Alaska almost from the beginning and it moved beyond Alaska during the campaign after SP was picked. As for as why it hasn't come out yet--three reasons 1) political expediency of Republicans, 2) genuine concern for the innocent victims 3)the proof is not widely accessible. I think it's wrong to blame the media, because no one in their right mind would believe a sitting governor would do this and also the truth is so awful that to speculate about it publicly without evidence would be grossly irresponsible.

As for why it will come out--SP has alot of enemies, not just Levi and his family. She has finally pissed off enough of the wrong people. There is a certain group in her party that has proof, including the records, and for the political ambitions of certain members of the party establishment, SP will be outed, either through Levi, or a leak to a tabloid or major publication. The key is that they don't want to endanger the primaries or the 2010 elections and also they don't want their fingerprints on it as the one who brought her down, or knew about the deception for as long as they did.

So, all that said, it will come out, but at the convenience of the Rep. establishment, even if it comes out through Levi using evidence they provided. SP knows they have the means to bring her down, btw, so she has been busy making money like there's no tomorrow, plus trying to make herself the key to Republican victories so she will be protected. She has no intention of running for president, b/c she knows the powers that be will not let her get that far.

Oh, and one more thing quickly, there was no sexual abuse by Todd. He's a jerk, but didn't want to leave that impression.
February 25, 2010 4:16 PM

Anonymous said...
One more thing...the real story here, and the one that will consume the press for months and months will be who knew and when did they know? And that's what is going to make the entire party look bad, not just SP.
February 25, 2010 4:26 PM

Jeff

6/3/2011 01:44:15 pm

^TWO QUESTIONS:

Hey ProChoiceGrandma,

At the RNC on Sept 3-4, 2008, Bristol's boobs are way too big unless her milk is just coming in came in. I cant find any comments from Audrey, who would be the real expert on the matter. Bristol does look pregnant at RNC, but boobs appear to be at beginning of nursing stage if they are even real. The "mis-informants" have put out a few red herrings on birth dates and on dates for some photos that are actual photos (non-photo shopped) but dates do not fit in sequence.

Bristol was in Anchorage for that fall of '07, so there is a gap in photo evidence, anyway.

BRAD, or anyone else, for that matter have you worked with the Wayback Machine machine before in recovering internet cache(s)? If so, I might try to work with it tonight. Obviously, some good info is popping, but some disinfo is being inserted into the discussion, too. I don't want to filter out any good leads, but I do want to avoid another rabbit hole if I can.

To be honest, I thought the Mat-Maid swindle was going to break first, so that's where I've been looking for bread crumbs the past few days. That's where heads will begin to roll when the subpoenas are from legal & justice, not just legislative.

BRAD---
Just leave a message here on Laura's site, or she can give contact info for me if that works better for you. Brad, I'm in CST, which I believe you are as well. But I'll be plugging away here for awhile tonight. If u have anything on lactation or wayback machine efficacy. lol What a combination of topics! Crazy. just sayin'.

Thanks to all, especially you, renaissance woman. ;)

Jeff

Anon55

6/3/2011 02:01:45 pm

Wonder if Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson has been paid off by the Palins? If not, ha, ha, ha. The Palin family are multi-millionaires, and Dr. Cathy's career is destroyed. Gee, Dr. Cathy, should have been a beauty queen and not bothered to go to med school.

molly malone

6/3/2011 02:10:30 pm

SLQ, I believe Rubbernecking and I must have read the same article, which said nothing about file cabinets being burned. I have no knowledge of any news release that says anything burned file cabinets. So far as I know, Wholy Mary is the first to ever mention this.

Which is what caused my ears to perk up because I wondered how I could have missed reading about something as strange as that.

curiouser

6/3/2011 02:11:57 pm

LTA - Thanks for the correction. I went back and read 4:32's posts. What I recalled reading -- something about to start focusing on the 'why' -- wasn't there. I apologize to 4:32 for the misrepresentation. I still think we need to be cautious and have several questions about her post.

One of my questions is that 4:32 said Sarah had an irreversible procedure in 2002 that precluded getting pregnant based on: "I have seen several pages relating to these medical records including an anesthesiologist's report and a perfusionist's stand-by report. (indicating his services were not needed)"

I had to look up 'perfusionist'. Wikipedia describes it as a specialist who assists during cardiac procedures. Has anyone ever heard of a perfusionist assisting in reproductive-related surgery?

My other questions will have to wait until later or never. I'm burned out.

Ginger

6/3/2011 02:14:38 pm

The main focus here should be on Sarah and her faked pregnancy. All this crazy talk about who Trig's father could be is just a distraction. Notice it all started after Bailey's book came out and next week, we should be seeing the e-mails.

We know the rumors Bristol was pregnant, starting in Dec., 2007, are true. Forget who possibly impregnanted her and all the crazy theories that are being thrown out. I've been researching this story and reading all the blogs since it started, just like a lot of you.

I'm not trying to make people believe what I believe, I'm just trying to point out what I've read and what is common sense. In all my efforts, I have only found one piece of evidence. That is the e-mail I keep talking about. It slipped thru the cracks and the person who released it, didn't see anything wrong with the SOA, Benefits Div., asking Sarah for her newborn's birth certificate.

I'm reading Frank Bailey's book. I haven't gotten to the part some people are talking about. It's where he says Sarah called him on Aug. 18th, crying that she just found out Bristol was five months pregnant. This ties in with what I've been trying to tell people for over two years. Sarah ran for VP with a b/c for Trig...thanks to Dr. CBJ...but the RNC didn't want to deal with it. She wasn't crying because Bristol was pregnant. She was crying because they were going to make her parade Bristol...supposedly five months pregnant...around the campaign stage. After faking a pregnancy and trying to cover for Bristol, they were going to make her do this?

I'm going out on a limb here but I think they gave her the option of backing out or, going along with this. She must have been furious. Remember, they had to round up Levi (they needed a baby daddy), pad Bristol to the hilt, etc. etc.

Stay tuned...

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 02:25:30 pm

@SLQ, multiple news organizations reported on the fire: ADN, NYT, CNN. All of them discuss accelerants on the outside of the building. None of them discuss accelerants inside the building. If journalists were able to quote the Wasilla crime lab and the Federal Bureau ATF, where's the proof of obfuscation?

You ask "Why speculate about what a criminal might do, when criminals are not always known to be the most brilliant?"

I speculate because the commenter implies the arson that caused $1 million in damages was not a random crime but a deliberate act to protect the Palins. It's perfectly reasonable to ask why someone with a motive to protect the Palins and physical access to the files would choose arson over simpler, less detectable, less dangerous methods.

http://www.adn.com/2009/01/26/668295/fire-damaged-wasilla-church-set.html

molly malone

6/3/2011 02:31:05 pm

I'm burned out. Thanks to all for a great discussion. Gotta crash now.

Exp:Nov5/08

6/3/2011 02:32:10 pm

@ bob: She walked the walk of the pro-life crowd by giving birth, especially to a baby with Down syndrome. Trig effectively wrote over the wite-out (which I'm sure she did herself) on those dirty documents from back in the day that had the auacity to try to hide the fact that Palin had an abortion (or two). Adoption wouldn't fit the bill - only giving birth would. McCain needed a hero, not a volunteer.

@ Laura and Brad, I wonder if CBJ thought she was acting in a young person's best interest, when really, she was just being used by SP - not only to gain the pro-life support SP needed, but probably also to unwittingly help SP enact some sort of personal vendetta. Of course, CBJ would never have suspected that of her back then.
If Bristol is Trig's mother, CBJ would or could believe she was protecting Bristol's (and SP's) best interests - when in reality she was unknowingly enabling SP to covertly punish Bristol for getting pregnant. And if Bristol is the mother, CBJ may not know who the father is, or that he's possibly being covertly punished, even if she does know him. Or, if Bristol is not the mother, CBJ may not know that SP could have been covertly punishing the birth mother, father, or their families.

I think the fake pregnancy killed many birds with one stone. That's how sociopaths typically operate. SP faked this pregnancy to cover something up, and to reward herself, but also, too, to punish someone else in the process. What's making it so hard to figure out who the birth parents actually are is the fact that everyone around her seems to have had their fair share of Palin Punishment (TM).

Thank you to Laura, to Brad, and to all of the thoughtful posters who have helped reaffirm my sanity for over two years on this insane saga.

Jeff

6/3/2011 02:55:36 pm

Folks, I'm not through reading comments here, but I see that a lot of speculation is creeping in that cannot be substantiated and will only hurt this blog and the process. I see that many of the valid questions can be answered in time, but not while keyboards are burning up with speculation. There's a handful of peeps on here that do not want their name or research smeared by insinuations that are extreme and no-one would discuss it in this type of a forum. Sure, ask questions, and give sources of info, but read what's out there first. You'll be amazed at the quality research that's been done by some knowledgeable folks, but they had to shut down or slow down because of nonsense that can occur with an un-moderated board. If a few people come on here and make insinuations or slander others by speculating on outrageous scenarios of incest, beastality, food fetishes, or whatever, you're going to waste your time.

Besides, and I've seen it mentioned a few times, all of the most salacious things are just a diversion to what's occurred. Don't lose focus and you'll come out ahead.

This isn't the site for nonsense. I don't think Laura has barred anyone yet, and I hope she won't have to. But based on some of the seedy comments and innuendo... simply, it doesn't belong here.

I see several names that have commented that I've recognized as truthful and authoritative --- several of them have their own sites where they have done literally thousands of hours of good, solid primary and secondary research, and they've put it out there for you to read and analyze. And they didn't gain their credibility by pretending they "knew" something or playing games of any kind.

If you are interested in learning and not having to re-invent the wheel by yourself, please be respectful, and at least know who you're communicating with and from whom you're getting your info from.

Just my thoughts as a fellow reader, lurker or whatever label you want to put on me. But whether you recognize it, this is a gold-mine if information. Please treat it with respect and maturity and you will enjoy it immensely.

Thanks,

Jeff

SLQ

6/3/2011 03:04:55 pm

Molly & Rubbernecking: I do understand that the file cabinets were not specifically mentioned. But that is not surprising because police often withhold details of unsolved crimes.

The article that someone linked above does indicate that the file cabinets are a definite possiblity: "Outside, the church looked mostly untouched except for the back corner where black marks scorched the bottom of the building and a half-dozen large sheets of plywood had been tacked over broken windows and holes firefighters had cut to reach the blaze."

and

"Kroon said most of the damage was limited to a back corner of the church where offices and a classroom were located."

So, we can't really conclude that there was no damage to file cabinets, just because it wasn't specifically mentioned. We've heard for a long time that there were files and file cabinets. They would have been in the office, right? That's the part of the church most affected by the blaze.

molly malone

6/3/2011 03:40:48 pm

@ SLQ. Dang it, SLQ, now look at what you've gone and done. I was on my way off to bed, and here you go and come up with new info.

I suspect I'm probably quibbling at straws here, but you see, Wholy Mary specifically stated that accelerant was poured into the file cabinets. I can appreciate your thinking here--that since the fire was set in the office and the file cabinets were in the office. . . but that's still a stretch to conclude the intent was to destroy information in the file cabinets.

Not saying that wasn't the intent. Not even saying a lot of dastardly folks aren't stupid. Just saying torching a church to the tune of a million+ in damages--when you could have just grabbed the files and hightailed it out of there--does seem a tad excessive. On the other hand, dumping accelerant into file cabinet drawers doesn't strike me as much of a genius plan, either. Individual pieces of paper burn really good. But trying to burn a cabinet drawer of paper from the top down? That's like dumping lighter fluid on an upright phone book. Doesn't accomplish much. But, hell, I'm certainly no expert. Takes me multiple attempts and an entire can of lighter fluid to get a fire going in my barbecue grill.

And now I'm truly and absolutely going to wander off and crash and burn for the night.

rubbernecking

6/3/2011 03:45:25 pm

@SLQ, no one is doubting that a fire occurred. We're just suggesting that unsourced, anonymous comments *may* not be reliable.

The person who provided the information about the fire said "any attempt to obtain evidentiary reports or investigative statements on this incident are met with complete and volatile obfuscation." We know this particular claim is FALSE because there are news articles that quote investigators.

This doesn't prove that all of 4:32's claims are false. It just shows he or she is not 100% reliable.

SLQ

6/3/2011 04:37:31 pm

Actually, I think we're on the same page about these claims. I'm not saying that what 4:32 said about the fire is true. I'm saying that I don't think it can be ruled out by the existing news reports.

Just because there are news reports that include some investigative statements doesn't mean that we would be able to get evidentiary reports if we asked. I haven't asked, but I'm not in AK. Given what I know about AK politics and the Anchorage PD, I'd say that until we try to get those reports, which should be public records, we can't say one way or another.

The news stories don't prove that 4:32's claim about the incident is not reliable. What police choose to say to a reporter and getting the full report of this rather old incident are two different things.

It sounds to me as though 4:32 has tried and failed to get the reports. Until someone here tries, there's nothing to say one way or another whether 4:32's claim is true.

SLQ

6/3/2011 04:43:52 pm

Molly -- one other comment. If someone's intent is to destroy the files, but not make it obvious that's the intent, one would not actually just steal the files. One would do damage to the office or building and also make sure the files were destroyed in the process.

My question would be how 4:32 would know more about what happened to the files than what the news stories revealed. Is she a member of the church? Did she hear this through CBJ? 4:32 was open about having additional information. So saying her information goes beyond released information doesn't say anything.

SLQ

6/3/2011 05:16:51 pm

As a result of this conversation, I decided to do my own research to see what I could find on this fire, other than the one link posted above. Interestingly, I could find nothing. There were repeats of this same information on various news sources. But no other information. No updated report from authorities on the fire. No report by the church on what was damaged in the fire.

FrostyAK

6/3/2011 06:22:54 pm

All commentary from the authorities on the church fire was shut down. No questions were answered. They made it disappear. Kinda like the Todd and the prostitute business.

The church rebuilt, no one was chased down, no charges were pressed, and everything is just hunky dory. Can we say corruption at the top? Dominionists have the state in a stranglehold. I heard nothing of insurance claims being filed, and there was rumor of it being an inside job.

I too heard that the office was the only portion of the church actually damaged.

Take it for what it's worth - often more truth is heard on the street than from the cops or media.

Bob

6/3/2011 08:28:55 pm

re: motivation for the hoax

Any Hoax carries with it both a risk and a benefit. When the theory behind the hoax was that the fake-pregnant mother arrived at the hospital at the same time as the real-pregnant daughter and the fake-pregnant mother then took home the infant--seamlessly, except for a handful of medical people who are unable to speak--then i understood the motivation, then i could see the benefit of the hoax versus other alternatives for a cover-up of the daughter's pregnancy.

But that's no longer what i believe happened based on the analysis of the age of the infant at "birth". If the baby was already born, at another hospital, in infant intensive care etc., then that increases the risk that a fraudulent pregnancy would not be well-executed and would be found out. An alternative that would have provided Mrs P with a DS baby, and covered up the pregnancy of the daughter while keeping the baby in the family, might have been a confidential adoption. It carries less risk than a poorly executed hoax. The same right-wing crowd that adored Palin for birthing a ds child, would have adored her for "walking the walk" of adopting a baby that someone else ostensibly rejected. If the daughter had the baby before the hoax pregnancy began, then it's hard to fathom that the daughter's pregnancy wasn't already covered up.

What i'm getting at is that she had alternatives to the hoax. Someone who knows more about the adoption process--particularly the process in AK--might be able to shed some light here. Ostensibly there was some sort of adoption in any case, so why wasn't a secret adoption planned from the start.

Whether the baby was a product of incest or not, there were alternatives to the pregnancy hoax--one she seemed to execute with some ambivalance. Is her thought process so skewed that her only alternative was the hoax ? is there something else where missing?

And by something missing--i don't mean incest, murder and arson--all of which
have been raised on this blog in the past day. I mean in terms of an institutional process and confidentiality or something immediate to a decision to stage a pregnancy versus a less-risky-to-reputation adoption?

6/3/2011 10:19:26 pm

two thoughts:

1.) to get attention, Palin could have adopted rather than "gave birth.". Both offer anti-choice cred. However, if adopting is like winning a major league baseball game, "giving birth" after an unexpected PG to a child with DS is like winning the World Series. Combine that risk/reward with a person who rarely if ever is called on her shenanigans, and pulling off a hoax doesn't seem that hard.

2) burning a filing cabinet. Filing cabinets can have only one drawer open at a time. Filing cabinet are usually metal and have some degree of fire resistance. Fires need oxygen.

I'm having difficulty envisioning how one might ensure everything in the cabinet was adsdburned without making it uber-obvious that the records were the target.

Do you pour accelerant in one drawer at a time, leaving the last drawer open ( drawing attention to the cabinet)? Do you close all the drawers but soak the surrounding areas with accelerant that you feel confident that the papers you want burned are gone?

And if the cabinet holds sensitive documents shouldn't the cabinet be locked? That would indicate either an inside job, or again, drawing attention to the cabinet by breaking the lock.

I agree with Molly, it seems awfully complicated way to destroy records. There are many easier ways to ensure they go missing without so much work. If there were papers related to a legal adoption, wouldn't there also be copies at a court anyways?

comeonpeople

6/3/2011 10:26:28 pm

@Ginger: I like your idea.
Makes sense to me. Palin had to decide if she'd throw Bristol under the bus (seems she debated that for about 11 seconds).
She agrees, and then gives Brsitol all these money making opportunities to try and make it up to her.
Very good theory!!

justdroppingby

6/3/2011 11:38:52 pm

Just a little side-bar here - and I have not read all comments yet - : Track probably has a reason to not having been photographed with $arah while in uniform:

The military explicitly prohibits uniformed members to post as political peons, and maybe he believed/knew his mother would use him as just that!

Bob

6/4/2011 12:15:54 am

To UP: if adopting is like winning a major league baseball game, "giving birth" after an unexpected PG to a child with DS is like winning the World Series

This is an excellent analogy.

However, we’re still talking about incremental increase in reward versus a disproportionately enormous increase in risk. The potential reward of millions in speaking fees, fame and being John McCain’s running mate, was theoretical. The risk of exposure was very real, and that risk will continue for years, until she is widely exposed as a fraud. If being chosen as McCain’s running mate was the goal, wasn’t it just as likely that he would have chosen someone else—she was not his first choice—or that his campaign would have researched her thru her Republican adversaries in AK, or that they would simply dismiss her as a mother of an infant who needed her. This part of the theory relies too heavily on the McCain campaign exercising poor judgment.

I doubt anyone who reads these comments will disagree that she exercises questionable judgment. The fact that it worked out for her (so far) cannot be viewed as validation faking the pregnancy, rather than an adoption, was the right decision, as the risk continues.

I contrast her risk / reward decisions with those of John Edwards and Arnold Schwarzenegger, both of whom made risk / reward decisions that have ruined their reputations. In their case, the reward was immediate—sex—and it’s well documented that men make poor risk / reward decisions when sex is the immediate reward.

But I’m still wondering if there was any obstruction to alternatives for her or if there’s a different motivation. Some of the brainstorming in these chats is excellent.

Tada

6/4/2011 12:18:53 am

I truly believe the reason why we have been unable to "break" babygate is because we are failing to see the bigger picture. The bigger picture being teenage drug use, drug dealing and prostitution. What does the birth of Trig have to do with this bigger picture? My theory is that the mother of Trig was using drugs. She got access to drugs by being a "slut" (in her own words); perhaps offering herself in exchange for drugs or in exchange for money to buy drugs. She got pregnant, but because she had been with several "Johns" there was no way to know for certain who the father was. Keith Johnston may have been one of those "Johns" and may have been confirmed to be or suspected to be the father after the birth. It became not only a tragic situation, but also a criminal situation, with both sides (Bristol and Keith) having committed a crime. That's why everyone in both families are staying quiet. Why are others outside those families staying quiet? Because
teenage drug use and teenage prostitution to finance the drugs may be widespread in the community and so many lives would be destroyed if this became publicly known.

I don't think neither the Palin family nor the Johnston family were organizing the drug and prostitution rings, but I believe there were multiple drug users and multiple "Johns" in both families and perhaps one or more being "slutty" in both families. Again, this is why everyone in both families are staying quiet, including Mercede and Levi.

And I believe this is the reason why there apparently was a widespread scrubbing of computers in the community when SP was picked to be McCain's running mate.

Bobby

6/4/2011 12:19:42 am

Jewels,

Please expand on this:
"And CBJ has already signed a statement re Trig, it is just not public yet.".

Thanks,

Bobby

6/4/2011 12:29:11 am

bob, I was trying to view the situation through her eyes. If she's never faced substantial consequences from her shenanigans she is likely to view the exercise as nearly risk free. Desperate Housewives made it look so easy. And she cares little for others rules... As demonstrated bt her comment "until a court tells me I can't.".

If she's been in conv with GOP/ social con bigwigs, she'd likely have heard them yearning for a con Christian candidate with unimpeachable anti choice cred. She knows they won't accept McCain w/o a running mate like that. She can provide the most unimpeachable anti choice cred ever. Not a stretch to someone like her. I don't know that she realized @ the $ until after.

silver

6/4/2011 12:35:00 am

Greta interviewed Palin after the church fire and she also talked to the fire chief and the pastor of the church. The transcript is still online.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,467527,00.html

Tada

6/4/2011 12:46:19 am

I believe the church fire may also be related to covering up evidence (confessions?) of widespread drug use, drug dealing and prostitution.

Jewels

6/4/2011 01:04:14 am

@ Bobby

The comments I posted above were not mine.

I remembered reading these comments and thought they might add to the conversation given they were made in Feb. 2010. What was mentioned regarding the 2010 elections did come true and Sarah making multi-millions of course is a fact.

I can't add to the comments as they were just copied and pasted.

Viola

6/4/2011 01:23:14 am

First off, let me say there hasn’t been this much reasoned discourse on the Trig hoax since Audrey. The other blogs-- all of which I follow and am grateful for-- usually dissolve into other things like dissing Palin’s hairdo or fraternizing among the regular commenters about a pet’s death. In Audrey’s day, the commenters vigorously discussed motive (the Why) as much as they discussed the How. Any detective does the same. Speculation is part of creative problem-solving, and only sticking to the facts is thinking like a lawyer not a novelist. (Both lawyers and novelists work with unlikely but human scenarios.) So here are some questions/thoughts I’ve had for three years:

1. Teen pregnancy is the norm in AK (and in fundamentalist churches.) Palin would have never bothered with a hoax simply to cover Bristol getting pregnant.

2. If an underage child became pregnant with a baby related to Palin, she had enough connections to arrange an abortion or an adoption. It could have been carried out quietly and with expedience.

3. Why the elaborate set-up for the “newborn” photo op at Mat Su? Why not just produce an infant and declare that it had been born at home, with a midwife?

4. A psychotic does what he/she HAS to do. The internal scripts are looped, and really, the person has no free will. A serial killer kills in a certain way because he has to, no matter what the risk. I believe that Palin’s lies are looped. She can’t tell the truth because her childhood was a series of lies, whether from abuse, secrets, or lies about paternity/maternity in her own family of origin.

5. Alaska is like the Appalachian area I lived in for seven years. In isolated places, the rules are different. Far from norms and smartypants judges, families are full of crazy secrets and proud of them. A half brother who marries his sister. Lots of wife swapping, unclaimed children. Sarah had lived the AK life so fully, that, I believe, she didn’t have any idea of what normal life was like in other places, nor did she care. Violence, crude methods, free-for-all sex, money buys unquestionable power and freedom. . .and THAT among church goers.

Destroying files may seem odd to you, but it’s far easier for a hitman than carrying out a big armload of files or stealing the right ones. Hey, it got the job done. (It got two jobs done, actually. Sarah made it sound like vandals were attacking her!)

6. The smile on Palin’s face in the Triggybear photos looks genuine. The faces of all in those photos look real, happy. So what happened? If that had been the child of an unholy union (Sherry/Track, Keith/Bristol, Willow/anybody), would Palin have posed smiling? Did the McCain campaign arrive, find out the weirdness, and then hightail it out in a horrified way. So that. . . Sarah gave away the first Trig in adoption to clear up the birth? And then, on her own, cook up the pregnancy hoax after the loss of the first Trig, to introduce a second Trig? (Didn't she ask Frank Bailey how a pregnancy might affect her career?)

And those are just a few of the questions that rumble in my head. Thanks for listening-- and above all, thank you Laura and Brad for joining up for truth here, and allowing this kind of discourse. And finally, thank you, anonymous commenters (WholyMary, Anon Shitfire) who I believe are beginning to dare to speak the truth.

Jewels

6/4/2011 01:33:19 am

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 01:33:53 am

@Up and @Bob, in Frank Bailey's book he claims Palin asked him in 2006

"What do you think it would be like to have a pregnant governor in the governor's mansion in Juneau?"

Bailey asks retrospectively in the book, "Could she have calculated the public relations advantages of having a child while governor?"

Assuming his memory is accurate, consider that her words are "pregnant governor" and not "baby in the governor's mansion." It's all about me! She realized in 2006 that the image of a pregnant governor was newsworthy and might get attention on a larger stage. We also know her pregnancy as Wasilla mayor generated positive press coverage.

So it's possible that Palin was actively trying to get pregnant as governor. And, *if* Palin discovered her daughter was unexpectedly pregnant in 2007, she was already predisposed to think a pregnant governor was good PR. If she confided in someone like Franklin Graham, he might have also encouraged Palin to fake the pregnancy to protect her daughter.

I'm not convinced the DS was central to the plot. Wouldn't a 43-yr old governor giving birth to a healthy baby have been exciting to the prolife crowd, too?

A DS baby would be easier to adopt than a healthy white baby. However, the toddler age Trig seems to resemble Piper too much to be a coincidence.

As for the risk/reward element of the VP nomination, remember that Palin was working and meeting with powerful people (Kristol, Krauthammer, Graham, Dobson) long before McCain formerly selected her. The evangelicals were determined to get concessions from McCain before endorsing him:

http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2008/06/30/mccains-meeting-with-billy-and-franklin-graham.aspx

I strongly suspect that Palin knew she had powerful backers working to secure her VP nod when she announced her pregnancy. And her backers included people working to stymie the Obama campaign's outreach to Christian voters.

Finally, someone on an earlier blog post suggested that Palin asked her daughter to be a surrogate (aka the mother duck comment). I do NOT believe this. *If* Palin needed a surrogate, I strongly believe one of her sisters, not her teen daughter, would have played this role.

Proving that Palin and friends sold the Wild Ride fiction as fact is all that I care about. Maternity, paternity, gullible doctors, and teen drug use are not politically relevant. If you want to see the story exposed on WP or NYT, I think we must focus on the politically relevant.

LTA

6/4/2011 01:35:13 am

Some thoughts on the fire:

I think we should be very cautious about dismissing 4:32's points about the fire. Someone here said that because there were some articles which regurgitated the same "not really saying anything" statements, 4:32 was not reliable on this point because she (do we know for sure 4:32 is a woman...?) said attempts to get statements and investigative or evidence reports were shut down.

I think she meant actual documents from the arson investigator's office, details about any structure or property damage, etc. I don't think she was saying that nobody REPORTED on the fire...I think she may have been trying to say nobody reported on it after the initial spate of extremely basic coverage and attempts to go beyond THAT were stonewalled.

It would seem Malia Litman's recent attempts to gain access to such evidence were similarly stonewalled. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Malia.

Now that a lot of time has passed, maybe the Good Dr Scharlot will investigate this and see how it falls in line with the "spiral of silence"?

Why haven't Alaskans demanded answers? This was an arson of a CHURCH for crying out loud.

This was not something I considered back then but the comments here have made me think...what if this 'fire' was a cover...for someone simply walking in, taking the records/files, and leaving a half assed "arson" attempt as they left.

I think if someone were the governor, AND a member of the church...seems like that person could just sashay in and then right back out.

At this point, I think anything is possible.

Has anyone ever done a timeline of pregnancy/birth stuff WITH all the "coincidences" as well?

AnonymousByChoice

6/4/2011 01:38:18 am

It really bothers me when someone comes along very elitist and talking about solid research and warns us to not discuss incest! Calling it seedy and implying it will ruin our purpose. I call BS to that! There is a VERY good reason Sarah faked this pregnancy and covered up for someone/something. I believe she would only do this for family. Also this is Aladka, a state with one of the highest rates of incest and rape in the country. This hold your nose and look the other way attitude is exactly why the problem continues!
We know Sarah faked this pregnancy. The question is why. Incest and/or abuse must be considered,sorry! And when people come along and start lecturing that discussion should not occur, either we are getting too close to the truth or they are in denial about what a serious issue this is in Alaska. Dr CBJ is a specialist in abuse and incest!

Trust me if we are way off, letters from lawyers will Starr coming. Other blogs have gotten warnings about certain subjects. But remember, not ONE blog has gotten a legal warning about babygate discussion. Patrick at Politicalgates begged Sarah to sue him. There was silence.

Beware of people who shame others into not discussing this. We need to focus on why Sarah did this. Yes it helped her pro- life credentials but she would only think of doing this to protect someone in her family.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 01:48:07 am

The Christian vote is critical in 2012 and 2016.

I don't object to Christian voting their values. I object to political operatives spinning tales to manipulate Christian voters. I object to Republicans using Christianity to fuel animosity towards our elected President.

viola

6/4/2011 01:50:43 am

Agreed, AnonymousByChoice! There is no doubt that Palin hoaxed us. The questions left are Why and How.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 02:00:03 am

@AnonymousByChoice, I don't know if I qualify as one of the elitists. I objected to accusing people by name of incest without any scrap of evidence as unethical.

I know of no way to prove incest without DNA testing. There's also no way to prove paternity without DNA testing. Why is it so important to pursue the incest theory on this particular blog when there are so many other blogs where you can discuss this?

Jewels

6/4/2011 02:00:05 am

Fire -vs- stealing the files.

1) The fire gets rid of the evidence in a less suspect way than the files just up and disappearing one day. The fire places the attention on the church and not the files.

2) Sarah gets to play a victim AGAIN. Supposedly the fire was set because she was the VP candidate and she attended this church.

3) The fire brings attention back to Palin and her
unshakable belief in God - a dog whistle if you will.

LTA

6/4/2011 02:04:01 am

Rubbernecking,

What are your thoughts concerning Bailey's tale of Palin asking how people would react to a "pregnant governor" in association with the likelihood of Palin getting pregnant as a 44 (43? I can't recall) year old in the first place?

It is extraordinarily difficult for most women past 40 trying to get pregnant. Most pregnancies after age 42 are the result of some type of fertility treatment...I forget the actual statistic but it's definitely over half. (US statistic only)
Combine that with the spare number nights Sarah and Todd spent together during the conception window...and you have a pregnancy whose chances of existing are barely measurable.

For Sarah to ask Bailey about this at the time he stated- 2006...means that Sarah Palin COULD very well have been "planning" to become "politically pregnant" that far back, that she began the process of inquiring about procuring a special needs baby from the most obvious source- CBJ.

I know many have speculated that Sarah is simply too stupid to pull off such a stunt. But remember...while she may be as dumb as a rock covered in lead paint chips...she is as DEVIOUS as the devil himself. And that kind of evil breeds action.

6/4/2011 02:06:25 am

Based on her own actions, I don't believe Palin faked to cover for a woman who'd been victimized. That would require a sensitivity she lacks. If she possessed that sensitivity she would never have publicly accused people of threatening to victimize her daughters ( Ie McGinniss, the high school gang rape threats serious enough to warrant moving Willow & Bristol to another school but which were not reported to her state police detail.)

Is it possible that the "victimized innocent" is an unrelated person, and that Palin just took advantage of a situation that dropped into her lap? After a Mat-Su Hospital board meeting or over coffee CBJconfides to Sarah about one of her patients, a very young girl, who 2 weeks ago gave birth to a super-preemie. Child was supposed to be adopted but just yesterday was diagnosed with Downs and will have to be institutionalized once it is discharged. Sarah tells CBJ she and Todd have been thinking about adding to their family now that Piper is no longer a baby. Sarah then turns around and announces her "pregnancy.". She'd been toying with the idea for years.

Yes, this requires some serendipity. But Hitler only went into politics because he didn't get accepted to art school.

silver

6/4/2011 02:13:22 am

Palin says to Greta:

"And it became pretty obvious, I think, quite -- quite near the very beginning of this whole episode that this was suspicious because there were just too many things that had taken place that evening."

Greta never asked her what else had taken place that evening.

6/4/2011 02:22:21 am

Some speculation on the church fire - and this is just speculation!

It took place on the evening of Dec 12, 2008 - a little over a month after McCain and Palin lost the election. Palin feels safe, mostly, about the Trig hoax - there's the letter from CBJ (real or faked) and the dratted internets have been scrubbed.

But there's still a paper in the church that she wants destroyed. And she sure misses being the center of attention. Insted the media are all paying attention to Obama ... why on earth did God let him be elected president? Especially when he pals around with terrorists and he obviously hates Christians?

What if my church were the victim of a terrorist attack? Then I'd be the center of attention again! And if Obama and Ayers were blamed, wouldn't that be even better? I'd even get back a bit at God ... who let me down last month...

Of course, I have no idea if that's what really went through her mind. But it sure seems to fit with what we know of her narcissism and vindictiveness.

And it's not impossible ... remember Ashley Todd, the McCain volunteer!

6/4/2011 02:28:46 am

@Jewels - you and I must think alike! I must have been working on my last posting while you posted yours.

The big liar!

6/4/2011 02:37:13 am

molly said: "I suspect I'm probably quibbling at straws here, but you see, Wholy Mary specifically stated that accelerant was poured into the file cabinets."

Now why would you go and say that molly when it's not true? And why would you go and say other things Wholy Mary said which she didn't say?

I'm sure they were just honest mistakes that you would like to correct, right?

[email protected]

6/4/2011 02:47:16 am

LTA says: "It is extraordinarily difficult for most women past 40 trying to get pregnant. Most pregnancies after age 42 are the result of some type of fertility treatment...I forget the actual statistic but it's definitely over half. (US statistic only)
Combine that with the spare number nights Sarah and Todd spent together during the conception window...and you have a pregnancy whose chances of existing are barely measurable."

And that leaves half so do you think that sarah really did get pregnant? I mean, she really looked pregnant in a couple of pictures and all the pictures that were taken of sarah while she should have been pregnant could have been pictures of sarah at a different time! Do ya think? Maybe we should all just stop this specualting on sarah faking her pregnancy and look at the possibility of her really being pregnant. Ya think?

Bobby

6/4/2011 02:50:06 am

@Jewels -

Ok. Thanks!

6/4/2011 02:58:55 am

anon

6/4/2011 03:08:20 am

Jeff, thanks for the thoughts, but...
I believe there are posters here, and elsewhere, who are truly in the know: maybe "Shitfire," maybe WholyMary, maybe you. I also believe there has been an active misinformation campaign since the beginning. Going back to early days of Audrey's blog, every time apparently interesting new information surfaced, a shitstorm quickly followed. Where were the real leads? Who could be believed? For anyone, ie most of us, not in the know, it is impossible to tell. That's the idea. If anything I'm inclined to think the initial voice is the trustworthy one -- in this case Shitfire, and those who are helping his/her voice to be heard. This line of reasoning makes me wonder about WholyMary: a politcal ploy doesn't work unless one has real goods, on the other hand, as misinformation campaigns go, a feigned political ploy would be clever. Where you fit into all of this, I have no idea. Without substantiation there is no way to judge the veracity of information from anonymous sources.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 03:11:55 am

@LTA, we can't assume too much. It's significant that someone from Palin's inner circle claims she sought his opinion about the possibility of a "pregnant governor." I found this phrase striking. The baby wasn't really important. Caring for a baby in the governor's mansion wasn't the concern. The idea of a "pregnant governor" was compelling to her.

This undermines the claim that Palin would fake a pregnancy only to hide something very sinister or criminal. If Bailey is to be believed, she may have considered the positive PR reasons of a pregnancy in 2006. We also know she got positive PR for a pregnancy during her mayoral administration.

@JeffMelzer, I don't think we can completely rule out that Palin wasn't pregnant. If she were pregnant, it was a highly unusual pregnancy. She was unusually small and took breath-taking risks during the period she claims she was pregnant. Whatever the circumstances, the baby was not born on 4/18 in Palmer. If she gave birth or adopted a child born on 4/18 in Palmer, she would have released a birth cert.

[email protected]

6/4/2011 03:17:20 am

Yes, you're right Laura, but Wholy Mary's mission has been accomplished and she didn't say anything that wasn't true. But she did make it clear to the Palins that the jig is up and they are going to be exposed if they don't play nice for the next 8 months.

Oh, and of course Sarah was never pregnant with Trig.

anon

6/4/2011 03:32:32 am

I looked back at Bailey's book to look more closely at his account of events from spring, 2008, keeping in mind that he might not be a wholly reliable witness. He describes the inner circle as of March, 2008 as himself, Ivy Frye, and Kris Perry. Also mention of "long-suffering Juneau scheduler," Janice Mason. Then there's Mike Tibbles. By Bailey's account Tibbles' "eyebrows nearly slid off his face," when he was told about the pregnancy, which Bailey took to mean that Tibbles understood he was a "dead man walking" with Palin, since he had been kept out of the loop with such big news. Bailey adds, "sure enough, by the end of April, he was gone." Interesting timing. If Bailey's account can be believed, it leaves one wondering if he might have misread the reasons behind Tibbles' reaction. Also leaves me wondering, where did Tibbles fetch up after he left the Palin team?

Conscious at last!

6/4/2011 03:39:43 am

We can understand babygate as a series of snapshots--i.e. distinct separate events, or we can see it as part of inter-related ongoing processes.

I prefer the latter because I think it has greater explanatory power.

First, SP is a pathological liar and she begins to integrate the lies into her own truth-- i.e. she "believes" some of them herself. This is how she survived as a child. So, it is an absolute waste of time trying to make sense out of ANYTHING that she claims because her narratives are a montage of lies, half truths and a kernal of "truth."

It is also a waste of time taking the specific explanations of any of the major players here seriously. Their words must be rotated at least 90 degrees and placed within a context.
This is especially true for Levi's statements. Remember, the Johnstons are COMPLETELY compromised. Similarly, the Shailey Tripp story seems like it was only a small part of a larger picture that was being "leaked" to prod or control someone.

As Viola and Tada have explained above, we must understand the relevant subculture of Wasilla. The police leadership has been corrupted by years of organized crime spiked with AIP and Dominionist ideology. So don't expect the news or police records to be accurate. For goodness sakes, one of the main newspapers there still has a special section for Palin-- OK get it??

With all that said, here are some ideas to consider further:

Bristol gets pregnant a lot. She may not know who the father of any of her children are. She might have been pregnant BEFORE Trig. It's a sad cry for love in a situation of neglect and abandonment. But it is a pattern that we should understand.

The availability of drugs and the unexplained $$$ available to the Palins well before SP became governor needs to be questioned.

Track may have been in the military, but not in Iraq. Alternatively, Track may have actually been wearing the uniform of another type of institution. The shots with him in a military uniform may have been phony. There are all kinds of possibilities here. The whole Michigan-hockey-injury story makes no sense. We do know that he was a troubled kid for many years and that he embarrassed SP.

Sarah Palin is accustomed to lying-- to telling really big whoppers. When we began this babygate exploration over two years ago, all I cared about was exposing the hoax. But now I realize that babygate is such a HUGE lie for such a HUGE audience that we must question the motives as well as the lie itself.
Sarah went to a lot of "trouble" to stage this hoax. The alternative had to be much worse for her. WHY???

[email protected]

6/4/2011 03:39:55 am

Rubbernecking, Yes, you're right to say that Sarah could have been pregnant all along. That's what I said. And for that reason we should put all the conspiracy theories on the back burner and come to the realization that Palin really did have baby Trigger. After all, she did have tight abs didn't she!

Only do it without me cause I'm outta here.

BadlandsAK

6/4/2011 03:46:50 am

On the assertion that we shouldn't "go there" with certain theories regarding babygate.

First, they are theories, not accusations.

Second, if the blog owner is providing an open forum and hasn't banned the topic, brainstorming is not wasted energy. You never know where the mind will go or what connections will be made when different ideas are presented. Don't we all agree that Sarah is not rational or logical in her apparent thought processes and actions? So being creative and open to possibilities is a good thing, even if some topics are "yucky". Life is messy.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 04:14:46 am

@jeffmelzer, I don't believe Palin gave birth on 4/18 in Palmer. The reason this is mainstream newsworthy is because her "Wild Ride" story was used for political gain. Stories told for money by political candidates deserve scrutiny. Period.

The political angle needs to be reported by a mainstream outlet like NYT or WP or LA Times or WSJ or The New Yorker.

I'm baffled by the obsession with incest. Some of you having been talking about it since 2008. It can't be proven without significant DNA testing. No respected newspaper is going to ask any political candidate to make their extended family available for DNA testing to resolve such a baseless rumor.

molly malone

6/4/2011 04:18:26 am

@ The big liar! You are so right, I did get some of Wholy Mary comments and the anonymous health care worker's comments on IM mixed up.

My only excuse--and believe me, it's a pitifully poor one--is that it was late, I was tired, and I was too focused on what was said, instead of paying sufficient attention to who said it. I'll try to do better.

kelgal

6/4/2011 04:27:34 am

Bob, in response to your speculation about why Palin would take the extraordinary risk of faking a pregnancy instead of just adopting…

Maybe Bristol or the father refused to give Trig up for adoption so Sarah announced she was pregnant to force Bristol into the position of either relenting to the hoax or exposing her mother as batshit crazy.

I would bet that the idea of airing the Governor's family's dirty laundry would be unthinkable to a vulnerable 16 year old daughter with a medically fragile newborn. This would also maybe explain why Bristol became pregnant so quickly a second time. A big teenage FU to her manipulative, horrible mother in the middle of a VP campaign.

The whole idea got a lot more interesting when WMary or Anonymous from IM claimed that Trig was born in Feb. That SP faked her pregnancy AFTER the baby was born takes it to a whole new level of audacity for me.

We also don't know that Sarah and Todd actually adopted Trig. Maybe Bristol just went along with the story publicly and really does the actual mothering in private.

LTA

6/4/2011 04:34:51 am

JEFF:

As my mom from Louisiana says, "HAY-ULL No!" I do not believe she was pregnant! Simply playing a statistical devil's advocate. Just wanted to clear that up.

I know what they say about never 'betting your life'...but I would bet my life SP was NOT pregnant.

I *believe* she had a tubal ligation based on her refusal to release ANY medical records. I *believe* there was no way she was a nursing mother on the campaign trail based on my own experiences and observations as a nursing mother. I *believe* Palin has all but abandoned Trig based on her not being seen with him or even having spoken his name in weeks/months.

I *believe* those things based on circumstantial evidence, common sense, gut feeling.

But I *KNOW* Sarah Palin did not give birth to the child presented as Trig Paxson Van Palin on his stated birth date in April 2008.

How do I know? Same way I believe/disbelieve the above re. breast feeding/sterilization/etc...common sense, visual evidence, processing what is right in front of my eyes.

It is impossible to go from flat to Gusty back to flat. You can 'pop' or your baby can 'drop'...but you/your baby can't UN do those things.

I know that's far more clarification than needed but I wanted to stress just how much I disbelieve Palin's pregnancy and birth "story".

michael merchant

6/4/2011 05:17:47 am

We know that Palin is not Trig's natural mother.

We know that Palin is a pathological liar.

And from her Paul Revere answer we know she is an imbecile and probably mentally ill. The Paul Revere answer almost certainly ended her tour or trail or frolic or vaction.

Everyone here should take great solace that Palin is proving that "Time wounds all heals."

curiouser

6/4/2011 05:28:38 am

anon - Tibbles is said to have resigned as Chief of Staff on May 1. He was unemployed until July 7 '08 when he took a job with Ted Stevens re-election campaign. He's currently working as a consultant to the Alaska Cruise Association.

Miss Mainwaring

6/4/2011 05:35:44 am

Laura, et. al: a commenter above asked about a time-line. I remember older time-lines-- in Vanity Fair and on Palin's Deceptions (that one in monthly format) which you can google and find -- but it seems to me that it's time for a NEW timeline. Is there any program which could be posted online with access to all, for people to add events to the timeline? It would be helpful to see things like << the first date SP speaks up for John McCain>> contrasted with events like <<SP's announcement of pregnancy>> or <<Track's whereabouts>> I don't know enough about technology to know if that's feasible, and it seems that each of us brings important dates to the table.

Brad Scharlott

6/4/2011 05:41:39 am

Floyd Orr is the master of timelines. He's got a very comprehensive one in his book.

6/4/2011 05:52:56 am

I know this is way late to the discussion, but Track & Bristol's ages in the spring of 2007 are not relevant to a prosecution for so-called, statutory rape. The age of consent in AK is 16, so Bristol was "legal" since she was 16 1/2. (Also, there are exceptions if one of the persons is over 16, but is not more than 3 years older than the person under the age of 16.)

However, if one of the parties is 18 or older then there is the case for incest if the parties are either full or half siblings whether legitimate or illegitimate.

I don't know where this is going, but it is always good to look up the laws for a particular state since they vary so much. So there were no age of consent issues once the minor attains the age of 16, but, there could be incest issues if one party was 18 or older.

Laura Novak link

6/4/2011 05:54:12 am

Jeff Melzer: You directed a comment back to me, though I never commented to you.

You must have me confused with someone else.

Jeff

6/4/2011 05:54:35 am

Anonymous by choice,

Sorry if I offended you or anybody by sounding "elitist" or smarmy or whatever. It was not my intention. There were many great comments.

My intention was not to shut down discussion in any way. The topics of incest, rape, and along those lines are important if they are relevant to the situation. My main point was to be responsible and not insinuate or imply anything that you don't have hard evidence for because it doesn't help move the discussion forward.

I know what you're talking about on the elitism issue, and it's nothing like that at all. I was so busy yesterday at work b/c I had taken a few vacation days in conjunction with Memorial Day. Anyway, I was shocked when I saw the number of comments, since it was not a new post. As I read the comments, I wrote a couple of notes down to check on and then continued reading because, if you noticed, the board was almost hijacked with insinuations but absolutely no information came out of all that activity over about a 100-125 comment stretch. Well, I've been nipping on Sarah's heels since summer of 2006 when she was running for Gov. That doesn't make me special in any way, and just mention that because I've been down the road of "breaking events" so many times, that the first thing I do is look for the origin of the "tip" and try to isolate it. I've found that any major inconsistency or a "walking back" of an inference is a reg flag for someone's credibility. I understand that folks get excited, look, I do too, although I might go a whole evening and not get a nickel's worth of new info to plug into my own analysis, Fortunately, we have 2 new books out, and I've already inhaled Dunn's, which altered my perspective just a bit. I haven't even started on Bailey's b/c I've been discussing the perspective w/i Dunn's book and analyzing with others who have read it and marked it up to glean all of the facts. I hope others will read it, and in fairness to the author, I'm not going to do a plat-spoiler either. It is suspicious that Dunn's work has largely been ignored. It would be one thing if it was panned, which I would strongly disagree could be done by an objective reviewer, but there is so little commentary of such a fine, well-researched piece of work. i mean, he's not an unknown author by any means.

My comment about all of the good research should not be upsetting nor feel like a slap in the face at all. It definitely isn't an elite thing at all. It was just my message that if someone is interested in really examining closely the situation and they are early in the process, that the type of free-for-all discussion might be overwhelming, and even then they wouldn't know what was possibly true. I hope no one else was offended either, but since you were, it's likely that others were, too. My true intentions were just to cool things down and be objective. Some of the ones that we would want to see their comments might take a quick look at all the speculatory comments, and bail out pretty quickly b/c of so much chat and so little information. Unfortunately, sometimes on an un-moderated board, the ones with the least to offer realize that they can be the center of attention, and they exploit it to everyone's detriment. Rather than let them hijack the board, well, I'm repeating myself here. I hate when someone is snippy with me, also, too, so if that was the impression I gave, I sincerely apologize.

We're all new to this board, which has so much potential. I'll close now and try to interject myself into the conversation when I have something to bring forth.

Have a great day.

Jeff

Susan

6/4/2011 06:15:51 am

Thanks everyone...my brain is fried.

Watch that you don't give your power to Palin. Don't bemoan that she is Teflon quoted. Accept it, you can use the saved energy on determing how to scratch through the Teflon surface......once scratched, the breakdown accelerates, and the pan is shot.I have no doubt this pan is going to end up in the trash heap.

Many here handle the clutter and chaos of disparate information. I am frankly confused and distracted by my own mental tangents. I can't get beyond the name WHoly Mary..or my brain running all kinds of potential solutions to the idea that it is an acronym or clue of sorts. Holy Mary is significant as in immaculate conception. WH is the acronym for our nations White House. oly could be anything, infinite possibilities, telling us something, my mind wants to think so. The name Vinnie was injected into the conversation by Wholy Mary...which impresses me as being so "mafioso"...is there an Alaskan Mafia? I have heard allusions to that being the case, but is it true? Also something that has being stirred instinctually in me and I need to throw out.... discard it if you choose. I have an a troubling instinct that some type of baby mill is being operated by the church, pro life disciples or even those with medical credentials, perhaps in collusion. I can not escape that thought. Drugs, prostitution, those are activities that the "mafia" has always trafficked in. What if there is a religious "mafia" organizing the human trafficing of babies? That would really be "icky"!

If Sarah Palin has her fingers in that pot, the world will be protected from her by the bars of a prison cell.

I disagree with those that want to look away from the potential of incest, or any other truly "icky" element. What is true is not necessarily pleasant, socially acceptable or easy. Instead take care to not label, or judge, approach this with the best of intentions, and fortify your resolve to arrive at the truth. This is not a court of law, although perhaps what is ultimately exposed will necessitate such a proceeding.

Also, perhaps we could organize separate fact finding groups that report back to the whole.
Palin-AK Pro-Life Movement
Palin-Crimes
Palin_Church/dominionists
Palin-Medical history
Palin-Alaska Media
Palin-Alaka Law Enforcement
Bristol-
Track-

Just an idea, my own mind has difficulty organizing and prioritizing the free flow of information, speculation, suspicions and occassional attempts to derail the course of this conversation, and the progress of this effort.

lilly lily

6/4/2011 06:19:24 am

I read Mercedes facebook when it was up. She said the family income was $250,000 which seems ridiculous. She also said she was a model, and listed her belongings. High end items, handbags and all high end named brands.

Now you can get those items from Nordstroms, online, or on E-Bay more cheaply than new.

From $250,000 as the family income to being abandoned by the father for his mistress of decades? With no money, no car?

The pared down life style story of many divorced women. Until then he may have been generous with his family, if what Mercede listed her clothing purchases was true.

Mercede was being sent money from sympathetic adults on her blog, before the Playboy photoshoot was mentioned.

Relations gave her a new car on her graduation. That is pretty generous.

Jeff

6/4/2011 06:20:44 am

Anon (10:08)

Thanks for the reply. I'm not in disagreement at all with you. I'm open minded about anything that could be true as long as it fits within the set of facts that we know to be true. Otherwise, I would've considered it a waste of time and just completely ignored all of it.

But you probably have a better understanding of the whole situation to be able to discern facts from conjecture. The trolls that are just being mischievous usually stir the pot and then go back to their cave and report to their masters what a good job they've done.There are a handful of people on the net who know things about this that none of us know, and it's likely they only know part of the situation, but to be redundant, "they know what they know" and it's true.

By the way, why don't you use a moniker instead of anon? It would help direct questions and answers, etc.

Bobcat Logic

6/4/2011 06:21:27 am

The reasons for the Sarah Palin Baby Hoax is deeply rooted, of long-standing, and politically-motivated. It was devised and carried out not only by Palin, but by her religious/political handlers.

(A simultaneous family pregnancy may have helped, and may still be helping, conceal the true actors behind Sarah Palin's fake pregnancy.)

Palin was being groomed from the start by Christian Dominionists for a lofty political role. Very early in her career, Palin startled acquaintances with the statement she intended to go directly to the presidency, and I don't think this was simply her own grandiose thinking.

At the time, she was, I believe, on the city council of Wasilla. But she was being set up, even then, apparently, to be a GOP/Dominionist Queen Esther.

Jane Meyer's article in the October 27, 2008, New Yorker provides important background on how Palin came to be chosen as VP nominee. The article , "The Insiders: How John McCain Came to Pick Sarah Palin," is easily available online.

Max Blumenthal expands on the roster of "Insiders" responsible for Sarah in "The Secretive Right-Wing Cabal that Met in Minneapolis to Vet Palin." (posted Sept 1, 2008 , on Huffington Post).

Blumenthal describes the "Council for National Policy" as "the hidden hand behind McCain's Palin Pick" -- people such as James Dobson, Grover Norquist, Tim LaHaye, Tony Perkins, and Paul Weyrich.

Palin was a critical addition to the ticket if these people (and their sheep) were to support McCain.

And, according to the right wing punditry the critical "fact" of Palin's life, and the most important "reason" to vote for her was,"Trig" "proof" that she had personally "chosen life" over abortion.

"Trig" was clearly a deliberately planned hoax that gave the GOP the political prop critical to any hope of victory in 2008.

Of course, the people who were involved as helpers/enablers of the hoax want us to think (when the faux pregnancy news comes out) that Palin was merely nobly covering up for her daughter.

For those of us old enough to remember Watergate, such a story would constitute a "modified, limited hang-out." That means, in "Nixon-speak," a diversion put out to direct people away from the bigger truth.

Floyd M. Orr link

6/4/2011 06:34:11 am

Thank you for the compliment, Brad! I hope the readers have recognized that Laura, Brad, and I are the only ones who have consistently written about the Babygate issue under our real names. This discussion going on right now on Laura's blog is one of the best I have read on the subject. Keep up the good work, Laura and Brad!

Jeff

6/4/2011 06:44:29 am

Floyd (or anyone,if u know)

Do you know if Track was in school 2nd semester in Wasilla 05/06 and if he fished summer of 06?

I lost "track" of Track from when he was arrested on 12/05/05 until he leaves to head to Michigan in Sept/06. On "my" timeline, I have him transferring back to Wasilla in March, 2007 and then graduating with the 2007 class when he was 18, which would've been on-schedule. He enlisted 09/11/07 and finished bootcamp in mid-Jan'08.

Then he was deployed on or about 09/11/08. Do you know approx date he returned from Middle East? Do you know his discharge date? Was that discharge date from the reserves?

I'm just fact-checking his Mom. She messes me up by telling the truth on occasion, and it throws me off the trail.

Thanks,

Jeff

molly malone

6/4/2011 06:58:36 am

@ Bobcat Logic.

Whoa, I never thought to look at the role of the Christian Dominionists in Palin's rise to fame and glory via Trig Hoax. Clearly, am going to have to do some serious homework on these folks.

Thanks for your input.

AnonymousByChoice

6/4/2011 07:06:25 am

Rubbernecking, I wasn't talking about you. I was reacting to Jeffs posting lecturing us. There aren't any other blogs that have allowed talk about incest which is why we should be grateful to Laura.
And I'm not saying it is incest either. The people who have spoken out as if they know the truth all have implied it's sobering sordid or digusting. They say once we know, we will dropbit because it's so awful. And they have said that people are not talking to protect the innocents rather than Palin.
So taking this into consideration one can only think of incest, rape, pedophilia, prostitution, wife /partner swapping, drugs, etc. It could be any of these or something else.

Again we need to focus on WHY is there a big need for such a cover up? The child could have been adopted out but he wasn't. So why did Sarah do this is question. I do not believe it was solely for political reasons because she took a huge risk faking this.

We need to keep every sordid ( unfortunately) possibility on the table. It isn't nonsense. By coming up with possibilities by name, we are NOT accusing anyone. It's just a diacussion.

Bobcat Logic

6/4/2011 07:12:15 am

@Molly Malone

Some good books on the topic of the Dominionists include Jeff Sharlett's "The Family" (about that fine bunch of guys living at C Street) and Max Blumenthal's "Republican Gomorrah." There are many other good books on the Fundies and their insidious, and often secretive, involvement in GOP politics.

Also look up online anything about a Fundamentalist network known as "Quiverfull."

And there is a helpful anti-Fundie website called "God's Own Party."

Jeff

6/4/2011 07:19:06 am

Floyd,

Also, re Track

what was his rank at discharge. I found his name listed in roll call on 05/09/10 but it included no rank info.

Floyd, I didn't really get the perspective of your book when I read it the first time b/c I couldn't really see the fundie, evangelical side to be as dominant as far as actually driving her behavior. My viewpoint was a little more shallow in that she was just "faking it"
to exploit that crowd by speaking the code words that act like Pavlov's bell. After seeing transcript of her address to the 2007 graduating class at Wasilla, it clicked in my mind that in her deranged mind, she is honestly acting out based on her calling. Even when she lies to someone, it is "true" b/c it's for her higher calling. And those who are susceptible to that type of dominant, aggressive, personality-driven type of leadership, they all get behind her and follow like zombies, despite the facts and Sarah's behavior that is not consistent at all with mainstream "Christian values".

In short, her "god-complex"--- I under-valued it as a driver of her behavior and assigned all of blame to her need to manipulate to gain control to her benefit. She doesn't say overtly that she is Esther, but she is so pleased when others do, it's like someone agreeing with her opinion. She gets all giddy, but devout and spiritual. Then once she feels she has the authoritative voice established, she progresses to cockiness and opinionated where she can say anything to her peeps. She's gun shy of asserting that side of herself to the general public, but she pours it on once she has her target audience mesmerized.

I read your book (a loaner from a friend, sorry) in 09 after Sarah's 1st book, and gave it back to the owner, along with my hard copy of Going Rogue. I wished that I had just traded and kept your though, since I wasn't going to put Sarah's in my library. Hers was more like bathroom material, along with People mag-type shit.

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff

Miss Mainwaring

6/4/2011 07:27:48 am

Thanks, Brad. If Floyd has it all covered on a time-line, then I'm good.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 07:36:14 am

@Jeff, multiple people provided a link to the discharge papers on IM:

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/11/tonight-spa-moves-away-from-recent.html

The papers show he served in Iraq and was honorably discharged.

AnonymousByChoice

6/4/2011 07:37:40 am

I really do not think this was planned ahead of time. No way.
And what advisors would you be referring to specifically that helped her?
There haven't been a steady team. Not at all.
I think going in that direction and away from family is a big mistake.

Rubbernecking- why do you keep pushing us away from incest? Just curious because you seem very adamant. So what if it can't be proven. That isn't a reason to ignore it as a possibility.

I kind of feel like we are going nowhere with this discussion. Just my opinion. I wish someone who was sincere would come forward and do the right thing. Or maybe they think keeping this secret is a good thing. The secrecy, hush hush, and Dr CBJ almost out of site are what lead me to think abuse of some kind is involved.

Molly

6/4/2011 07:41:57 am

Many thanks to Laura for allowing us to discuss all aspects of the faked pregnancy and the reasons behind it. I believe people are discussing a fairly distasteful subject in a considered way. I am wary of posters who try to redirect the conversation away from this.

Joe McGinniss has said that he delves deeply into the Dominionist aspect in his book. Maybe there is a story there.

Floyd M. Orr link

6/4/2011 07:43:51 am

Jeff, I have the same timeline as you do for Track. As I discussed in my book, I have generally felt that Track is the sane one of this family. Yes, I think he was a troubled teen, but I have found little evidence that he has been involved in Babygate.

Since you have brought up the subject of Track, here is a new story. An unnamed source sent me an e-mail message last night suggesting that Track and Britta could be the parents of Tripp. Yes, it has bugged me in the past that Tripp has such blond hair and blue eyes, and of course I have been suspicious of the facts of Tripp's birth since the beginning. I do not think Track is the father of Trig, and probably not of Tripp, either. I researched the chances of Tripp having the blue eyes and blond hair when I was working on the book, but the results of that research indicated that these traits were not common, but quite possible, from brown-eyed parents. I tend to believe that Track went to Michigan at least partly to get him away from drugs and/or effect an attitude adjustment. The newspaper article I referenced earlier in this thread was probably sugarcoated a bit by all the parties involved, but I suspect that the contents of the article are essentially true. When I first read it a long time ago, I researched the hockey meet in Dallas that was mentioned in the article, and yes, it did happen.

As for Track's military service, Gryphen posted the discharge paper, and I have no reason to doubt those details.

Several posters here have addressed some very pertinent questions and discussions. I generally agree with Laura that we should be careful and not fall overboard with the accusations of incest. I addressed these in the book, but I do feel that these are issues that can damage innocent victims quite easily and we need to be careful. On the other hand, I applaud Laura and the commenters here for keeping an open mind on this subject as well as several others. I get quite disturbed when other bloggers seem to try a little too hard to control the message, as I indicated in my recent NIAFS posts.

Here is a bit of red meat for all the Babygators. In ascending order, these are the Babygate issues as I see them within a scale of their likelihood of being relevant to the mystery.

(10) Any incest issue
(9) The death of Curtis Menard, Jr.
(8) The death of Darlene Miller
(7) The Wasilla church fire
(6) The details of Tripp's birth
(5) FAS and Ruffles
(4) McCain's selection the day before
(3) The Wild Ride setup
(2) Trig #2's obvious DS characteristics
(1) The development of The Southern Strategy and the long-term plans of the Christian Dominionists

Molly

6/4/2011 07:47:48 am

@AnonymousByChoice
I agree with you about Rubbernecking. He/she is engaged in damage control at this point and it has been obvious for days.

Bobcat Logic

6/4/2011 07:50:52 am

For some interesting pieces of the timeline see Geoffrey Dunn's book.

He gives no explicitly marked "smoking guns, and he doesn't connect all the dots for us, but the careful, informed reader can think it through.

(see, for example, pp 159 -160 or 141-142)

comeonpeople

6/4/2011 08:09:43 am

Proving that Palin and friends sold the Wild Ride fiction as fact is all that I care about. Maternity, paternity, gullible doctors, and teen drug use are not politically relevant. If you want to see the story exposed on WP or NYT, I think we must focus on the politically relevant.
@rubbernecking:

Sorry. I still disagree with you. The doctor (CBJ) is highly relevant and probably an easier route to breaking this open. She and MatSu broke all sorts of rules by doing whst they did if they did it, and that is persuable. Too bad no one will continue to ask publicly why a doctor gave the advice she is on record as giving. If enough public attention was given, I bet CBJ would clear her name.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 08:12:11 am

@AnonymousByChoice, I've explained my objections to the incest speculation multiple times in this thread. You can search from my handle if you really care.

I was drawn to Laura's blog because it seemed to be a focused on a factual investigation on Palin's public story of Trig's birth.

I care about politics. I care about how candidates are selected and vetted for presidential races. I don't care about who is failing high school or is having plastic surgery or what teens write on myspace.

I'm interested in the truth of the Wild Ride. This means focusing on things that can be proved or disproved with some level of confidence.

Molly

6/4/2011 08:14:42 am

What wild ride? It didn't happen.

Jeff

6/4/2011 08:32:46 am

Thanks a bunch, Floyd.

Yeah, I'm trying to get my flow diagram as tight as I can of the "known knowns", "unknown knowns", etc lined up b/c I'm a special-needs linear-thinker. Once I get the facts and timelines set, I'm less likely to go as far down a rabbit hole and stay down without any progress.

Okay, Palin Matrix just got a 1-click Kindle purchase on Amazon. It would be tacky to go borrow my friend's paperback version again. Besides, gas is too expensive and I'm too lazy. So, I'm going to shit-can Bush's Decision Points for the summer, it looks like. I went ahead and got one of Malia's books, Virtues.

Unless Laura's Clarity comes out first. When Clari's off the press, I'm putting all this depressing stuff aside. I am due for something to make me laugh or at least smile til my face hurts. No pressure, Laura!

Jeff

Bob

6/4/2011 08:38:25 am

i agree with rubbernecking, comeonpeople, and others who'd like to keep the discussion focused closer to known facts.

It matters most to me that the hoax be exposed for what it is. Why do i care about Palin at all? because she influences the national discussion with misinformation--death panels to Paul Revere's ride--and elbows out other voices. The hoax is only the craziest of her frauds.

i am interested in Palin's actions and her decisions to stage a hoax when alternatives existed. Whether Trig was the result of incest, a daughter's pregnancy, or mating with a Martian--Palin took the risks she did for some reason.

That said, this isn't my Blog.

But if you want the hoax exposed, i just don't see how some of the wilder speculation--without any supporting evidence that is of the quality Laura, Brad and the neonatologist have presented --is going to be helpful.

Jeff

6/4/2011 08:51:42 am

Rubbernecking,

I remembered someone posting I was prob reading on my iPhone at the time.

Thanks for the link.

Jeff

AnonymousByChoice

6/4/2011 08:53:09 am

What proof Flloyd or others do you have that Dominionisn is related to the underlying REASON Sarah faked her pregnancy? And what is the southern strategy? I don't find Sarah to be a very organized person. I just don't believe she planned this years in advance. I think something happened that forced her to do this and that yes of course it was good for her politically.

Rubberneck- I was asking you sincerely- I'm not going to go through all the posts to find your reasons. I didn't mean to offend. I just didn't agree.

The reason we aren't getting anywhere is because people ( including me) have such strong opinions about this or that and frankly we might all be wrong. Flloyd is sure it isn't Track, others are positive it is Track.

The only real consensus is Sarah faked this pregnancy and it did help her with the pro choice fundie groups

Bobcat Logic

6/4/2011 08:58:27 am

Floyd,

I'm off to order your book!

I have to agree with your list, although I might list both possible arson events together, and maybe a little closer to the top.

A group of would-be (perhaps, accomplished) arsonists were recently arrested in Alaska.
I think at least one of them may have ties to the Palins and/or Joe Miller and "Sovereign Citizens," an armed and dangerous anti-current-government group with strong Fundamentalist vibes.

jeff

6/4/2011 09:11:33 am

Anon by Choice,

I replied to you at 12:54. I hope you saw it. My intention wasn't to lecture.

No one has given an indication of a preference to shut down open discussion, but I do agree with being respectful and responsible with our words. Myself Included.

THanks.
Jeff

Floyd M. Orr link

6/4/2011 09:41:58 am

To AnonymousByChoice:

First of all, I am not SURE of anything, and I think this is the sort of honesty that has been missing from the Babygate investigation from the beginning. Have you not noticed that the very people who act as if they are so SURE of everything seem to all be anonymous? You have not heard Brad or Laura state such certainties, either, have you? You obviously are either a youngster or you have not been paying attention for as long a time as I have. Go look up The Southern Strategy at Wikipedia. While you are over there, check out Lee Atwater, Kevin Phillips, and the CNP. All this stuff is covered in Paradigm Shift, too.

To Bobcat Logic:

I found your posts to be outstanding! You are really getting the message, and I know you will like Paradigm Shift.

To Jeff:

I assume you mean that you read PS earlier this year, not in 2009. It was released 1/1/11. Keep up the thoughtful comments. Yes, it really is a balancing act between letting our imaginations run wild and working too hard to control the message!

There is a parody of the M*A*S*H episode entitled "The Rooster Crowed at Midnight" in Paradigm Shift. I felt that this presented a good tongue-in-cheek reference point for the Babygate story because it, too, is like a murder mystery with the final pages ripped out.

Bob

6/4/2011 09:44:39 am

re: The so-called Wild Ride.

This event, more than other, brought attention to the birth of Trig. Initially, this was positive attention—wow what a woman, to give a speech in TX and make it back to AK to give birth¬!!! But this attention turned negative when some people examined the story itself—and found it baffling and gave birth to Trig skeptism.

Since reading the reports of Laura’s neonatologist and others who believe that the actual birth of Trig took place weeks before, I’ve struggled to understand what was really going on, and how it played into the overall hoax. Why the “rush” back to AK?

Several posters have suggested that the reason behind the pregnancy hoax was a calculated ploy to be considered VP material, that it was “walking the walk” in a very big way, and that she was already in touch with some evangelical groups whose support McCain wanted. If these theories are true, then I speculate that her interest in giving that speech in TX, and taking “delivery” of Trig the next day, was calculated to maximize attention on her in this critical period. If the baby was already born, she knew she was about to present herself as the mother of a DS baby, and that this might just be her ticket ---in lieu of substantial policy experience etc. By showing up in TX, she had the opportunity to network with influential Republicans, and by having the baby the next day, she generated a lot of positive headlines. Had she remained in AK---like a normal 8-month pregnant woman, not given a speech, not networked in TX, would anyone have noticed her?

In this theory, the story she told just got way out of control, attracting the kind of scrutiny from people like us, but unfortunately not questioned by the segment of the MSM that just loves an exciting story. Just thinking.

K.M.R

6/4/2011 09:49:28 am

I'm still thinking about the church fire. My thoughts traveled to other church related "accidents."

It's strange that two pastors, and their wives have been killed in car accidents.

Paul J. Trissel and Pam Trissel of the Wasilla West Valley Family Church of the Nazarene were killed in a head-on collision Saturday morning, November 6, 2010. A a semi-tractor crossed the center line and hit the Trissel's vehicle head on. The driver was not injured.
http://tinyurl.com/3fzwdja

More recently, on May 10th, 201, Pastor Randy Bjerken of Matanuska Assembly of God Church in Palmer and his wife Doris were hit by an SUV that slammed into a utility pole. He was treated at the hospital and then released.
http://tinyurl.com/6j4jcl9

Matanuska Assembly of God Church
12801 West Arctic Ave.
Palmer, AK

West Valley Family Church of the Nazarene
1851 Hemmer Rd.
Palmer, AK

How close are these churches? I don't know but when looking for addresses, the West Valley Family Church of the Nazarene came up as a link in both.
Sarah she did attend Matanuska Assembly of God Church.

Could these deaths be somehow connected and part of package? I may be wrong but as has been said, brainstorming helps to put ideas on the table.

BTW, my condolences to both families.

molly malone

6/4/2011 10:15:51 am

@bob Thanks for the reading list and the suggested sites re Dominionists. I've got some studying up to do. For some weird reason I failed to associate the Wasilla bunch with the C Street family. Argh!

jeff

6/4/2011 10:23:47 am

bobcat,

I hadn't made the connection before re palin's constituency and The Family on C street before, so your comments added some clarity.

A bunch of creepy hypocrites in that bunch.

I went to college with one congressman, Chip Pickering, and he was on the Telecom Committee overseeing FCC and licensing stuff. He gave up that seat(but he kept others) on the committee after divorce proceedings showed he'd had an affair. Still The Family stood behind him, with counselling, prayer, image rehab, the works.

Then, it came out that the reason he really resigned was bc the gal in the affair was on the Board of a Telecom company that had business before he committee that gave the company special grants, guaranteed loans, and tax credits. I don't recall the amt but it saved them several $Million. Anyway, the Family stood firmly behind him, even though it was likely the Ethics committee was going to censure him.

Later on, after his wife would not settle, during the actual divorce proceedings, when it was revealed he had been seeing this girlfriend throughout 20 yrs of marriage (with 4 boys), he resigned from Congress, finally. The religious right had known about the affair for a long time, but had been grooming him for Trent Lott's seat in the Senate, so they didn't want to lose their "investment" as long as things stayed hush-hush. The guys in the Family would cover for one another, hence the name, I guess. By the way, his wife was a Real Christian who refused to lie for him for a sack of money. When the rightwing churchie people came to "counsel" her one last time to settle the divorce quietly and help her move "for the boys' sake" and so she could "adjust to a new community", she threw his sorry ass under the bus, and called the press to tell them everything.

But none of the major papers locally in DC would print any of the personal matters, just that they were divorcing and that he resigned to spend more time with his boys. The alternative news mags and the legal/political blogs were the only ones to report the truth.

Then, the next January following one calendar year, he's back in Washington as a lobbyist. Along with his mentor, former Senate Majority Leader.

I'll give you one guess which political party they represented.

Another success story for The Family. Complete hypocrisy.

Thanks for all the good info in the comments. Have a good weekend.
Jeff

Susan

6/4/2011 10:25:24 am

I received Floyd's book by FedEx today.
I will make a trip to Wikipedia for a quick lesson on the Southern Strategy.

Quick question: Is Roger Ailes part of this cabal? Pat Buchannan?

Re: The Dominionists (I refuse to preface that with the term Christian), was Sarah Palin hand picked and groomed as their useful idiot
and tool of influence because of her mental vulnerabilities (IMO illness) diguised in an attractive package. Has she been brainwashed?
Who controls Sarah, who continues to manipulate her mind?

Better hit Floyd's book, before my brain totally implodes. Confounding, the whole tangled mess.

Bobcat Logic

6/4/2011 12:22:40 pm

@ Susan

Ailes has tired of Palin, but I think he was definitely an enabler. I sincerely doubt, however that he was in on the "conception" of the Hoax -- but, who knows?

Buchanan is an interesting case. He is the only person in the US MSM who has ever (on air, at least) specifically mentioned the Babygate controversy, and then he suggested (contrary to fact) that it was being ginned up by the media.

Buchanan loves (or perhaps I should say "loved") Palin for her Right-to-Life stance, but, as with Ailes, he seems to be backing away... cautiously...as if from an IED.

Re: "useful idiot" -- you betcha!

But I would also bet that Sarah could "turn" on at least some of her (mostly behind the scenes) helpers/enablers connected with the Hoax. This disturbing possibility must keep some very powerful people up at night.

Palintologist

6/4/2011 12:42:26 pm

This has been a fascinating thread, thoroughly informative and entertaining.
One thing to remember, people with narcissistic personality disorder tend to forget "where they come from" I would venture to guess that Sarah is at the point that she thinks all the press, publicity, fame and money are all due to her talent and magnificence. It would not surprise me to see her thumb her nose at the GOP. Actually, there is a bit of irony if she does, it make the republicans look impotent vs. a minority party, just like the democrats have allowed the republicans to do to them. What's good for the goose is good for the gander... As much as it will hurt the GOP at first, long term it will help them get back towards center.

INSANITY

6/4/2011 12:43:36 pm

I have no proof of this and I do not know this to be fact but **IF** this were true.

Trig Palin
Mother Bristol Father Keith Johnston

Tripp Palin Johnston
Mother Bristol Father Levi

That makes Trig and Tripp brothers (half) by different fathers.
That makes Keith the father and grandfather of the two boys.
That makes Levi the brother (half) and father.
That makes Mercede the sister (half) and aunt.
Trig and Tripp could also be considered uncle and nephew.

That makes Sarah and Todd grandparents to both boys.
That makes Bristol's siblings aunts and an uncle to both boys.

With Trig's prematurity and extreme problems at birth, it would be necessary to know exactly who the father is for medical reasons.
Hence it comes out that Keith is the father.

The shocking thing would be Bristol involved with both Keith and Levi as a willing partner and then getting pregnant by each of them.
This would explain the strange circumstances surrounding the Johnston family involvement (beyond Levi).
This would explain the hold the Palins have over the Johnstons.

This would also explain Dr. CBJ's very conflicted role in this.
One definition of child sexual abuse is abuse by an adult to a child who can not give legal consent.

This gets more disturbing the more I think about it.

rubbernecking

6/4/2011 12:47:03 pm

GOP can't win elections without Christian voters:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118528/gop-losses-span-nearly-demographic-groups.aspx

Republican operatives and party leaders strategize on how to get-out the Christian vote in elections. This is not left to chance.

Bobcat Logic

6/4/2011 12:48:33 pm

@ Jeff

A long, long time ago...in a galaxy far, far away...
I was very briefly involved in one of the "C Street" Family's feeder groups -- "Young Life."

I went to one Young Life meeting in high school, which all my Bible Belt classmates were doing, in my case, mainly as an excuse to get out of the house one night

But what I saw and heard at this meeting was so appalling that I never went back! It was like an orientation to "Jesus Camp."

The insanity and hypocrisy of it all were beyond belief! So to speak.

And, Jeff, the situation you have described above is all too common, but even worse are the murders these people have encouraged and condoned (most recently, in Uganda).

Jeff

6/4/2011 01:29:46 pm

Hi Susan,

(snark alert!)

Who controls Sarah?

That voice in her head that Sarah thinks is her telling God what she's gonna do.

Who manipulates Sarah?

Susan, that's a trick question. Shame on you, girl. Nobody manipulates Sarah, especially not the lyin' Obama or Lame Stream Media.

Now, Sarah might LISTEN to that voice, but Sarah's gonna do whatever Sarah's gonna do. Which, since it's never been wrong, Sarah's always been right, also, too!

Don't act surprised...I mean, who knows best, God or Sarah?

Sooo, when God agrees with Sarah, God knows best, also, too. But when God disagrees with Sarah, he just needs to watch Sarah closely and take notes so he'll get it right next time.

Hope that helps,

Jeff

6/4/2011 02:09:25 pm

I don't think that the Palin hoax was planned well in advance.

If it were, don't you think it would have been planned better? With real maternity clothes instead of scarves, gradual growth of the belly, and at least pretend visits to the doctor?

I believe it was done hastily, to hide a pregnancy and birth in the family.

For those who say it should have been no big deal, having a daughter who was pregnant, because it happened in Alaska all the time - remember that this was when Sarah was first setting her ambitions beyond Alaska. She could not be sure about the tolerance for hypocrisy among the fundies in the lower 48.

A further comment: if Track is not Todd's, then Sarah has a pattern of lying about pregnancy. Which makes the grand baby hoax all the more plausible.

alexis

6/4/2011 02:23:31 pm

Wow what a great discussion that has occured here over the past 2 days.

@V.. I also agree that the hoaxed was not planned. But once the unplanned pregnancy occured a quick and ill thought out cover was commenced.

I wish that "WholyMary" and other insiders like "4:32" at IM would come back and post some more clues!!

Susan

6/4/2011 02:25:22 pm

How do we convince someone to put the straight jacket on her? Does anyone in her circle recognize that she needs help? I am not very comfortable with what I believe she is reflecting about our society back to us.

Thanks Jeff, I feel a little foolish for asking the question. I really am trying to wrap my mind around the grandiosity and self absorption of her thinking.

Davis

6/4/2011 02:42:02 pm

That the hoax was not well planned cannot be blamed on lack of time to prepare, Alexis. Surely they had at least 8 or 9 months to plan the hoax? It makes the shabby sham even more inexplicable. Sheer arrogance and sloth are more likely to blame for the amateurish quality of the hoax. Me thinks we give them way too much credit to execute anything, much less the hoax, in a professional manner.

Davis

6/4/2011 03:18:46 pm

I think the cake was baked once McCain clinched the nomination that Palin would be the VP pick. I think the pregant Palin narrative was immediately chosen (by McCain) over the truth. The truth must have been a tolerable option if they were waiting to see which narrative to choose. I mean, they really could not have waited much longer or the transparency and absurdity of the hoax would have been even more absurd and transparent if that is even possible.

6/4/2011 03:19:16 pm

@davis - I think that a quiet adoption was the original plan - and then the baby had too many problems for the original adoptive parents. I understand that finding homes for down syndrome babies is not that difficult - but could they have done it and remained secret about it? Or perhaps the original adoptive couple was supposed to be in the family, such as Sarah's sister - so that Bristol could still see her baby - and a DS child was too much for them to handle?

Bristol's Old Chin

6/4/2011 03:19:45 pm

You know, one thread that has run through "who's Trig's real mom" speculation all along has been the idea that Sarah was protecting a family member. So I started wondering why she would fabricate such an elaborate hoax when there's been speculation that both she and Bristle have had abortions. (That's been presented as one possibility for the DWTS fetus.) Surely she had the connections and wherewithal to quietly arrange a "wite-out" and cover-up? So why didn't she?

Well, I think if Bristle IS Trig's mom, Sarah "adopted" him more as punishment for Bristol than as protection of her. Sarah had ample opportunity this week to show the "protective Mama Grizzly" in action, eg when Piper was in the midst of press crowds, and she seemed totally oblivious. In fact, as the body-checking incident showed, any protective instinct there seemed to be from child toward parent, not vice versa. I don't think Sarah has a protective bone in her body.

So whether Trig's conception was the result of drugs, incest, rape, promiscuity, or that "it just happened once" excuse Dominionists are so fond of (trust me, I grew up among them; whenever there's an out-of-wedlock pregnancy, it was ALWAYS from the "first time" the poor couple had ever had sex, and "their hormones just raged out of control")--whatever the back story, I think Sarah seized Trig to punish Bristol (for getting pregnant? doing drugs? being promiscuous? getting raped? With Sarah, it could be any or all of those) and keep on punishing her.

And yes, I do believe Sarah is that evil.

emrysa

6/4/2011 03:29:48 pm

thank you laura for allowing the space for this discussion. I've been following this story since 9/08, and I am really wishing for some closure.

I just want to point out - those people who are offended by the talk of incest - apparently the quitter doesn't care that people suspect there's incest in the family. if she did, she'd surely clear her family name by providing proof of Tri-G's parentage, wouldn't she?

I'm not saying I am on board with the incest angle, but just look at all this speculation here - rape, favors for drugs, incest, whoring, - all because she faked a pregnancy and then ran around bragging about how it proved her pro-life cred. if your child and other family members were being suspected of such behaviors, wouldn't you provide some proof to put an end to it - if it wasn't true? is this really how a "mama grizzly" protects her family?

Davis

6/4/2011 03:35:47 pm

I think V may be warm until I remember that Palin was musing about the politics of a pregnant governor a few years prior. A previous post surmised that the DS child cinched Palin as the VP pick. Maybe Palin as the VP pick cinched that she would suddenly become pregnant with a DS child. Can they really be that diabolical as to custom order a VP pick? I mean, why vet the VP pick when you can you just make up her qualifications and attributes? Didn't they really just make up the rest of her bonafides on the fly anyways?

shilo

6/4/2011 04:29:34 pm

Is it possible that Levi is todds son, seems they all mate with one another up there.
Track, Murdocks son
Bristol looks like Sherry Johnston
Trig looks like Todd.
Tripp looks like chucky
Sherry with the drug arrest, that was to quiet them up and the Palins where behind that, that's obvious. I just have a gut feeling the Palin's had a open marriage. Sex, drugs and power. The reason sarah had so many kids is simple, she's stupid, didn't know how not to get pregnant. I think Piper is Hanson's daughter.
Sarah did not fake a pregnancy to protect Bristol she could care less about her children. Example telling the world Bristol was pregnant when she got VP. I'm going on my gut instinct. Another family that had this same situation was the Jackson family. I don't believe there's any other Tom, Dick or Harry involved. That's why the loving marriage has to be kept up or her political career and fame will vanish because out of those three there was a Dick involved, thats why he became a purse carrier. Who knows, was it really Bristols, or maybe Willow's,
Piper yes, eight year old's do get their periods.

nenagh

6/4/2011 10:01:46 pm

Thank you Laura for allowing this thread to meander..

A few questions:

1. Do we know if the Newsweek photos & YouTube videos of Sarah are taken on the published date or earlier? Just trying to be careful.. It strains credulity to imagine that Sarah could be pregnant with a moving fetus.. if she is at 7 months or even much earlier in a pregnancy.

2. Re the wild ride: Did this story happen after Palin's father spoke about it first & Sarah decided to continue with the deceitful story? [Makes me think he must be as capable of fabrication as Sarah]

3. One behavior of Sarah's that surprised me was to watch her get off the bus and ..RUN.. towards the press.. she targeted someone in the press & ran towards them to deliver her lines.. after setting up the situation in which the MSM press chased after her bus.. and endangered others by going through red lights etc. Is that seductive behavior? Certainly she put others at risk..

Don't want to break up anyone's contributions on the above topics, though..

Sarah is so disturbed and disturbing that I for one feel the need to spend the afternoon in the garden :)

Thanks again, Laura.

6/4/2011 10:24:10 pm

RE the Family, after reading Jeff Sharlott's book it was my impression that men were groomed for power and the women were groomed to be Stepford Wives. Charming pretty hostesses content to stand behind their men. So Palin doesn't seem to fit their mold.

That book gave me nightmares for weeks. Thankfully it seems their willingness to coddle the unfit is catching up on some of their "investments".

Brad Scharlott

6/4/2011 10:59:51 pm

Hi nenagh - The Newsweek interview was in fact March 4. The interviewer later wrote that the next day a Palin aide called to apologize for the fact that Palin neglected to mention she was pregnant - as if it were just an oversight.

Chuck Heath was the first to say her water broke. But earlier that day a press release from her office said her labor had started in Texas.

Watch the Elan Frank video, where she is thumping her stomach, for an example of seductive behavior - she acts girlish and makes eyes at him.

LTA

6/4/2011 11:07:03 pm

@SHILO

I'm all for really going outside the box with possible theories and motives. Ugly as some of them are- they do happen.

But even SUGGESTING Piper Palin, who would have been SIX YEARS OLD during the majority of the Trig pregnancy as the "real mother"...

You are either crazier than Sarah herself...or you are the worst "troll" I have ever come across.

For God's SAKE, I think the one thing we CAN rule out is that the biological mother of Trig IS older than SIX or SEVEN at the time of birth.

Good God, I can't even believe I'm having to SAY this. Some things should just go without saying. "The six year old was not pregnant" is DEFINITELY one of them.

nenagh

6/4/2011 11:39:36 pm

Thank you, Brad Scharlott..

Perhaps, when one has birthed children in a small community so close to a hospital.. the Palin's didn't realize just how lacking in medical sense, their comments sounded.

I have watched that Elan video..and was struck by Sarah's inappropriate seductive attitude, just as you say. And the look in her eyes that says she is getting away with something..

Thanks again, back to the lavender plants.

6/5/2011 12:14:09 am

I don't think much of the Palins. But I have a hard time believing that they would somehow "acquire" a DS baby without its already being in the family, just for the sake of the VP (and she was still a long shot at that point).

Any child is a lot of work, but a DS baby is work for 40 years - not just 18. Of course the Palins might be too short-sighted to have realized that, but still!

No, I think that TriG was born with defects to Bristol - and that Sarah turned it into an opportunity. We have to grant that she's a powerful opportunist.

SLQ

6/5/2011 01:10:22 am

My take on Chuck talking about the "water breaking" story is that he relished his role in the hoax, and decided to embellish the story a bit. Having 3 kids, he was aware of such details, but apparently not aware that one would never do the things Sarah supposedly did after her water broke. Traveling so far (with a doctor's blessing) when one is 8 months pregnant and in premature labor with a special needs child strains credibility. Doing so when one's water has broken or is leaking is simply preposterous.

Anonymous

6/5/2011 01:20:22 am

One theory we have not considered is that Trig might have been his own father. I'm not sure about the medical plausibility - I'll leave that to the experts - but what if, just maybe ... Trig was so premature that he could impregnate an ovum while he himself was still in the uterus? In that case, he would be both his own father and his brother. And it would explain why there are two babies ... crinkle ear Trig and normal ear Trig.

Davis

6/5/2011 01:27:44 am

I think the incest angle is a waste of time. Abortion would have solved that. The timing of the disclosure of the pregnancy drastically narrows the possibilities here.

The multiple baby photos could be reminescent of movies and tv shows that use multiple and fungible babies and twins. This was just a play to her anyhow. The only thing that mattered was the VP pick with a DS baby, not the actual baby.

Lovebug

6/5/2011 01:55:02 am

I dont mean to place a hellvuva lot of confidence in Mercede, since she's a known liar/grifter, but why would she initially claim "I know for a fact Bristol was NOT pregnant before Tripp"

I'm aware Bristol never confided in her and the two were never close, but that statement has always been intriguing. Honestly, with what I know, with Bristol making several visits to Sarah's offices as the other kids have done, I sincerely don't believe Bristol was pregnant.

The only evidence we have for that are other people (rumors). And rumors typically lead nowhere. Myspace is too vague and one sided. Even the "My mom think im pregnant" comment followed by "my phone was taken away" doesnt lead to actual pregnancy, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WAS FOLLOWED BY "but I didnt do anything"

Remember, in June 07, Bristol was on hand to serve food beside Sarah. In pictures, she looked slightly bigger in the breasts, face and all round than she ever did in Sept or Oct 07.

I think that when Bristol and Levi grew more serious turning point around July/Aug), Sarah and Todd did their darndest to cool it off. Remember the fight between Lanesia+friends and Bristol? That was in the fall 07. FIghts in small town schools (esp schools that are already prone to violence) can cause students to leave school or change schools.
There were threats against Bristol during this time from Lanesia's friends. Where are THOSE screen captures.

In this scenario, the NY trip makes sense. Things do add up if you put aside personal theories and look at what we know.

holy shit this is crazy

6/5/2011 02:06:03 am

Trig is ruffles. The baby shown in Baileys book has thesame ear as triggybear and looks the right size.

I just know the Palins laugh their asses off at all these retarded theories about their brother/son. hahahahahahahahaha

There are a LOT of people close to the Palins who believe he was born on April 18 incl ext family. And a lot of people who currently see Trig regularly, whether through playdates or at the Palin home in AK.

god's little helper

6/5/2011 02:51:49 am

Please Jeff, Sarah is real and god's a sky fairy. Don't insult the fairly intelligent people who frequent this blog. Maybe the reason why a lot of people aren't able to quite get the doubts about Sarah faking the baby is because their lives are fantasies as well. If people were just allowed to spearate themselves from the sky fairy fantasies then they would be much less amenable to accepting Palin's fantasies she wants people to believe. Why Jeff, some people think Palin, Paul, Bachman, Santorum, and a few other baggers have a chance to become the next president! No bloody wonder Palin is able to pull it off for so long.

Laura Novak link

6/5/2011 03:34:57 am

How can anyone who lives in Brooklyn, NY know who has play dates in the Palin's home?

I'm just curious.

emrysa

6/5/2011 03:39:22 am

Lovebug sez:

"Honestly, with what I know, with Bristol making several visits to Sarah's offices as the other kids have done, I sincerely don't believe Bristol was pregnant."

if bristol was making regular visits to the quitter's office then that would have put an end to the rumors around the capital that she was pregnant, wouldn't it.

I found it amusing that the quitter was preoccupied with the rumors, sending her staff to contact the media to clear them up, when all she had to do was bring bristol to work for a day. she could have paraded her around the capital, and it would have shut those rumors down. but she didn't. because she couldn't.

Puzzle Pieces

6/5/2011 04:21:42 am

We must be getting close to the truth - the trolls are out in force. The Palinbots have descended
upon like locusts. Don't get distracted by this latest swarm of intruders.

mistah charley, ph.d. link

6/5/2011 04:41:31 am

IN RE TRIG PALIN: PRIVATE LIVES, PUBLIC LIES

From the testimony of Anon 4:32, reposted from Gryphen's blog into this thread by Brad Scharlott Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:08:35, and whose further comments were posted in this thread by ProChoiceGrandma Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:51:21: "due to my job, there are certain medical specificities which I don't feel comfortable speaking about. What I feel VERY free to speak of: anyone who is NOT the parents. And I know at this point nobody even needs to hear it...but Sarah Palin did not give birth to ANY child in 2008."

This statement increases my confidence in the reliability of the testimony of Anon 4:32, because it shows a concern about not violating the provisions of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) - something a health professional would want to bear in mind. Trig or his mother might be a patient of Anon 4:32 or the patient of a close colleague; Sarah Palin, definitely not a patient.

HIPAA, in criminalizing the violation of patient confidentiality, is drawing a line between the public and the private sphere. I suggest considering this issue a bit further. Is Babygate the story of Trig? Do we care which young girl or middle-aged housewife is his mother, who his father is and the relationship of the father to the mother, the circumstances of his conception, whether a crime or multiple crimes were involved, intoxication with legal or illegal substances, coercion, whether somebody videotaped it, whether the federal tobacco tax had been paid on the cigarettes smoked in the afterglow of the sex act?

All of these are part of the Story of Trig. I suggest, however, that they are not part of Sarah Palin's Babygate Hoax.
The Babygate Hoax does not begin with Trig - it begins with the idea of Sarah Palin faking a pregnancy for political gain. Trig becomes a public figure when Sarah Palin announces she is pregnant. It is the hoax that matters in terms of the political life of our Republic (Latin: res publica, the "public thing/affair"; contrasted with res privata, "private affair.)

Clearly the Story of Trig intersects with the Babygate Hoax. But there are aspects of each that are not involved in the other. The drama, possibly the tragedy, of his actual conception and birth - these are part of the Story of Trig, but not integral to the Babygate Hoax. The extent to which the McCain campaign was aware that Sarah Palin had NOT given birth to a child in 2008: this is part of the Babygate Hoax, not integral to the Story of Trig.

In other words, to some extent Trig figures in a private melodrama; to some extent, he is a tool in a conspiracy to control our country. It is the second aspect of his life, not the first, that is relevant from a historical standard. The inception of new life without benefit of a socially sanctioned marriage is one thing. The manipulation of the public by fraud, to perpetuate and intensify the exploitation of the sheeple, is something on a larger scale of immorality.

With regard to politics and history as a series of lies, I want to underline Bobcat Logic's reminding us of the Nixonian "modified limited hang-out" - an admission of a bit of the truth, with the intention to conceal the rest. I suggest that Frank Bailey's book, "Blind Allegiance to Sarah Palin," is exactly that.

LTA

6/5/2011 04:46:05 am

"holy shit this is crazy"-

HI there, Sarah! ;)

So you "know" the family "laughs their asses off" but the photo of Trig "looked" the right size?

Which is it? You KNOW the Palins enough to comment on their playdates but you can only guess that Bailey's photos "look right"?

You're not even trying anymore!

Bobcat Logic

6/5/2011 04:58:39 am

@ V

No, Palin was NOT a long-shot at the point when she announced her "pregnancy." The deal had been sealed.

Remember that she announced on the very day after McCain was conclusively chosen to head the GOP ticket, and only days after she had met with McCain in DC.

The Fundie/NeoCons had selected Palin for this role long ago,in the event of a McCain nomination, and once they were sure of it would be him, they rushed the plan into action. (although the groundwork had been laid long ago)

Read Geoffrey Dunn's book on Palin's meeting with McCain in DC, only a few days before she announced she was 7 months pregnant. (Interestingly, no one at that meeting and dinner, or even her own security guy who'd flown with her from Alaska realized Palin was "pregnant," and she was wearing jeans.

Study further what Dunn has to say about a New York Times article that was running at the same time as the DC meeting, about an affair McCain allegedly had/was having with Vicki Iseman, a real "professional" who resembled the young Cindy McCain. Iseman, in turn, had been hired by wealthy Christian Conservative Broadcaster, "Bud" Paxson, obviously to help compromise McCain.

The forced alliance between Palin and McCain at the DC meeting may have been the strategy behind the leaks to the NYTimes about the McCain/Iseman affair.

The story had been planned as a series, but whoever put out the info for part 1 of the story, failed to follow through with the rest of it...perhaps because McCain gave in on the Palin VP issue, cornered as he was by the blackmail threat of further revelations.

As for Palin taking on a life-time burden with Trig, a handicapped child. Ha!

Sarah has little if anything to do with Tri-G, now that he has served his purpose. If he isn't already in an institution or in virtual foster care somewhere, he will be in due time, unless the GOP prevails with their draconian cuts on care to the disabled.

Even then, Sarah, will not be stuck with his care. I'm sure some of her friends at Quiverfull, will be glad to take in another of God's Children, to care for while Sarah campaigns, does time in jail, or in rehab, or goes wherever she is headed next.

These Dominionist folks think they're all about to be raptured soon anyway . So why worry about 40 years or more of grueling care for Tri-G.

Molly

6/5/2011 04:59:53 am

"holy shit this is crazy"- is a troll from Brooklyn, NY. She frequents Palingates with her idiotic stories about the Palins.

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 05:01:20 am

mistah charley, ph.d.:

You nailed, brother, in your last comment.

And is it just me, or does a storm seem to be brewing?

Brad

LTA

6/5/2011 05:03:11 am

Floyd M. Orr link

6/5/2011 05:04:41 am

Bobcat Logic is the man!

LTA

6/5/2011 05:16:37 am

Oops, accidentally posted a blank comment- sorry.

What I was trying to post is a question for Prof. Scharlott.

I know you have stated you think it's "likely" Sarah Palin faked the pregnancy.

I'm curious if you can now say with as much conviction as the subject allows, that you feel 'sure' she faked it? I just wondered if your view has evolved or changed after seeing so many more theories bandied about here. You & Laura make an excellent team, btw!

holy shit this is crazy

6/5/2011 05:20:54 am

Um, I'm not from Brooklyn. ????

I am in pseudo-regular contact with the family. I wouldn't say we're friends, but definitely acquaintances. Pictures taken inside the homes (AK or AZ) also don't lie. You all doubt EVERYTHING that sounds even remotely realistic because it contradicts your personal theory. That is sad.

lizawithaL

6/5/2011 05:22:59 am

I feel confident saying the public and the media don't really care about this the same way Rev Wright was dropped. There may have been threats from both sides. Actually I'm 100% sure the Obama camp threatened people over the Wright story. That association was HUGE along with other Obama secrets that will never see the light of day.

Yahoo

6/5/2011 05:25:25 am

No offense but how does one believe anything a commenter says when they wrote that Tripp Palin wasn't born on Dec 27?

Good question to ask first.

Geo

6/5/2011 05:37:33 am

Floyd, remember that lots of kids will change hair color and eye color (even several times) throughout their life. There are members of levi's family with lighter hair, as well as Bristol's. All of Sarah's siblings have blond hair yet they all resemble each other. To me, Tripp fits in with the Heath looks, but in a different way than Track does. Track looks just like Chuckie. I think Tripp kind of resembles Heather. Anyway, there's a good chance Tripp will have darker hair in a couple years. I was born with thick black hair and when I was 3 it all fell out and grew back curly red.

Punkinbugg

6/5/2011 05:37:48 am

Brad, I believe the Newsweek event happened on March 3rd. Here is the flight schedule:

SUN MAR 2
AS 92 DEP ANC 12:50PM ARR SEA 5:11PM
AS 410 DEP SEA 6:10PM ARR LAX 8:53PM
BEVERLY WILSHIRE

MON MAR 3
LOS ANGELES

TUE MAR 4
AS 517 DEP LAX 8:00AM ARR SEA 10:38AM
AS 67 DEP ANC 3:25PM ARR ANC 7:32PM

Floyd, you mentioned the long-suffering Janice Mason. As the Governor's scheduler, don't you think she should have known about her prenatal doctor appointments?

So... Why did Janice send her an email on 2/27/08, (http://www.crivellawest.net/palin/pdf/893.pdf)

asking her boss if she would want to go down a 9-10 ft ice slide at the Wildfest Winter Festival?

I find it had to believe that the person in charge of flight arrangements would not know about doctor's appointments.

Ergo, there was no pregnancy, no doctor appointments, ice slides are fine and dandy, and for that matter, get on that plane and go to Texas, girl!

What's Janice Mason up to these days?

Molly

6/5/2011 05:44:15 am

@Bobcat Logic,

I read the book but failed to see the link between McCain and Iseman and Palin. Thank you for alerting me to that! I'm going to reread it.

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 05:44:39 am

Hi Yahoo,

Where do you get the date Dec. 27? Actually, Dec. 29, 2008, is the date most people cite, but there is nothing official about that. Indeed, People Magazine initially said Dec. 28. Go ahead, find a source for the date more official than People mag, which quoted a great aunt in Seattle, who got that from a text from Chuck "Her Water Broke" Heath. No hospital will confirm it. It's just the damnedest thing. There's really no hard evidence Tripp was born in December at all. Go ahead and read my paper if you don't believe me.

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 05:47:14 am

Thank you, Punkinbugg! March 3, it is. An aide called nonetheless to apologize for Palin not mentioning the pregnancy.

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 05:50:52 am

Hi LTA: I don't have any doubts. Neither does Andrew Sullivan, I am sure, but look how cautious he is.

Cutie Trig

6/5/2011 05:55:34 am

To prochoicegramma, keep in mind that Bristol didn't leave Juneau until the end of May. Also, a comment following that comment was "My mom took my phone away, but i didnt do anything"

Obviously, teens arent known for being truthful but I doubt anything scandalous was happening. In Juneau. To my knowledge Bristol wasn't dating anyone specifically at this time. Remember that Gabe Gatto screenshot from April 07? (I gotta break it to Bristol)

While nothing from one-sided myspace comments can be appropriately analyzed, they do HELP to paint a picture.

Arghhh

6/5/2011 06:00:30 am

This is random but what happened to that once public picture of Todd and Track at his graduation (or maybe it was his departure). He was in uniform smiling and Todd was BEAMING.

I am pissed I can't find this picture anywhere. I used to have it saved.

Also, Britta is close to the whole family. Bristol is close friends with Britta and her friends and Piper loves Britta. Remember Elan Frank in the kitchen scene? Piper drew a picture for Track of he and Britta and was super excited?

Molly

6/5/2011 06:01:20 am

@Yahoo,
They were obviously lying...they were out by a few weeks. And they thought we would believe them. Tripp's first appearance I think was with GVS.....many weeks later!

A birth cert of course would clear all of this up. I presume you don't have any problems with demanding a birth cert?

The Big Picture

6/5/2011 06:53:45 am

Hypothetical Palin-Johnston Baby Timeline

Late December 2007/Early January 2008
Bristol is sent to live with her Aunt Heather in Anchorage.

Early to mid-February 2008
Trig (1) was born about three months prematurely given his due date was around May 18. Some weeks later Trig (1) was diagnosed with Down syndrome.

March 4
John McCain won the nomination for his party.

March 5
Sarah Palin publicly announced that she was seven months pregnant. There are accounts from sources who said that this announcement enraged Bristol.

April 8/9
Sarah and family were filmed for Elan Frank's documentary. Sarah confirmed she was expecting a boy whose due date was May 18.

April 18
Trig (2?) was presented by Sarah (he was supposedly one month premature) at Mat-Su Regional Medical Center. A 6:00 AM birth time was given. Trig (2?) appeared in photos with Chuck and Sally Heath.
Trig (1) had an adjusted age of one month premature and had a chronological age of approximately 2 - 2 1/2 months old.

May 3
Photos were taken of Mercede and Levi with Trig (1) from Levi's birthday at the Palin's home.

May 4
Baby shower for Trig (1) who would have a chronological age of about three months old. Trig (1) was not due for another fourteen days making his adjusted age about two weeks premature.

May 18
Original due date of Trig (1).

May 21
State of Alaska Benefits Division requested Trig's birth certificate in order to continue paying the baby's medical claims.

August 29
Sarah Palin was announced as the Vice Presidential nominee.

August 31
The Andrea Gusty interview photo appeared for the first time on the internet. This picture was supposedly taken on April 14 and is the only photo ever published of a "pregnant" Sarah Palin not wearing a camouflage scarf.

September 1
The McCain campaign announced that Bristol was "about" five months pregnant.

December 18/20
Tripp's original due date as reported by Levi was December 18. Chuck Heath told the ADN that Tripp's due date was December 20.

December 27
Conflicting reports for Tripp's birth date and birth weight appeared in the press on December 29. The birth announcement was made by Sally Heath's sister - the baby's great aunt who lives in Washington State.
With an announced due date of December 18 - 20, the birth had to be announced (Bristol would have been 7 - 10 days overdue at this point) so as not to raise suspicions. Tripp was born at 5:30 AM.

February 16 2009
Bristol (with Tripp) was interviewed for Greta van Susteren's show.

Notes:
From April 18 (Trig's presentation date) to December 18 (Tripp's supposed due date) is eight months apart and is conveniently enough time so that it looks like Bristol couldn't be the mother of both babies.

June 12 2010
Blogs showed pictures of Levi's truck parked at Bristol's Anchorage condo.

July 14
Regarding Levi and Bristol's US Magazine engagement announcement: "This is sincerely heartbreaking for Todd & Sarah, You can have no idea how devastating this is." from a Palin aide per The Daily Caller.

rubbernecking

6/5/2011 07:17:18 am

@BradScharlott, I'm posting because I think factual accuracy is important here. The claim that there was no official statement is false. Palin's office issued a statement on 12/31, apparently after a deluge of inquiries. Since it was released on New Year's Eve, it was probably overlooked by many people.

I found the press release when I searched the wayback archive:

http://wayback.archive-it.org/1200/20090726085744/http:// www.gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=1593&type=1

According to the press release, Tripp was born on 12/27/08.

Of course, based on the Wild Ride press release, I agree that is sensible to maintain some skepticism about the truth of the "facts" in Palin's press releases.

6/5/2011 07:20:22 am

@bobcat logic -

you may be right about the VP picking procedure. I had in mind an article which I read a long time ago about how McCain wanted Lieberman, but was told no way, and told to pick someone else, and he said no way - and then he picked Palin who was 5th on the list.

@everyone: earlier there was something about how CBJ had attended 3 births during the year prior to the alleged 4/18 delivery of Trig - and one of those dates was 2/7/2008, right? And there have been several other indications that Trig was born in early Feb - could that have been the real day that he was born? If we have a real birthdate to work with, does that assist with any research?

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 07:28:23 am

My bad on the date -- People Magazine originally said Dec. 28, then switched to Dec. 27. From my paper:

The great-aunt’s report in People was the only contemporaneous account the press would receive about Tripp’s birth, and while that story said the baby was born in Palmer, no hospital was named. The Mat-Su Regional Medical Center is in Palmer, so the implication was that Tripp was born there. But the Associated Press called the Mat-Su medical center and was told there would be no comment regarding Tripp. The hospital of birth would not be identified in subsequent press reports, nor would pictures of the newborn appear in the media, and nobody outside the family saw the baby until seven weeks after his birth, as far as press reports reveal.
Governor Palin’s office at first declined to comment on the birth – "This office will not be issuing any statements on [Bristol's baby]. We’re here to talk about state government and that matter falls outside of that," Bill McAllister, Palin’s director of communications, told People on December 29. But on January 2, two days after the magazine’s story appeared, Palin’s office issued a statement quoting Sarah Palin as saying, “We are over the moon with the arrival of this healthy, beautiful baby,” and commenting on Bristol and Levi’s prospects in raising the child.
McAllister, in that press release, said this about the delay: “The governor’s office previously declined to comment to honor the family’s wishes that the event remain as private as possible. However, the high volume of press inquiries, along with some erroneous information that was published, prompted the governor to make a statement.” The press release did not mention a hospital or even city as the place of birth, which would have seemed like a significant oversight if the governor’s office had made the original birth announcement. But coming two days after the People magazine “announcement,” the press made no comment about it.

mxm

6/5/2011 07:29:02 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnBPZWX_oIc

this is just the interrupted portion of the GVS interview where Tripp was introduced by granny grizzly

and here is a transcript of another part of that interview where Bristol herself tells the birthdate of Tripp

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,494205,00.html

"VAN SUSTEREN: Bristol, thank you for sitting down and talking with us.

BRISTOL PALIN, SARAH PALIN'S DAUGHTER: Thanks for letting me be here.

VAN SUSTEREN: Your life has changed rather significantly. Actually, starting last August was a big event in your family's life, and now you're a new mother.

BRISTOL: Yes. It was chaotic in August, but I'm excited to be a mom.

VAN SUSTEREN: When was your son born?

BRISTOL: He was born December 27.

VAN SUSTEREN: How is he?

BRISTOL: He is awesome. He's very, very, very cute."

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 07:37:09 am

So rubbernecking: First, the guv's office is not truly an official source for confirming a birth -- that would be a hospital.

But even more to the point, in this case, the guv's office REFUSED TO EVEN CONFIRM A BIRTH TOOK PLACE until after the People story had "announced" the date.

Why the cat-and-mouse game? So the guv's office would not have to take responsibility for the date.

So no, not only is that not an "official announcement." it's a chichenshit way to avoid any responsibility for the information.

And why would Palin and McAllister do that? Something stinks, dontcha think?

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 07:48:39 am

So Rubberneck: We seem to have a factual conflict. My paper says the guv's office did not issue its PR release until Jan. 2. You said the wayback date is Dec. 31. The url you provide is not working for me. Would you do a screen capture of that info an email to be at [email protected]? Or find some other way to confirm your date for me?

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 08:04:45 am

But I do see how your date, Dec. 31, would work just fine for Palin and McAllister. All they needed was for the People "announcement" to be made first, even if it was just earlier in the day. They were waiting for the magazine to be issue, I imagine, and then they had a fall-back if the 27th was proved wrong. My date of Jan. 2 could simply be the date that their PR release was printed at the Web site I cited in the paper. So I am not doubting you got your fact right -- but I truly would like the confirmation so I can revise my paper.

6/5/2011 08:09:03 am

@bobcat logic - I still think there was a lot of serendipity in Sarah's plotting - that Bristol had had a premature baby who sadly had DS.

My thoughts: By the time Sarah announced that she was pregnant, she had to have known where the baby was. Getting access to a baby isn't so easy - nor so reliable. How many times have we heard of couples who planned to adopt, only to have the birth mother change her mind at the last minute? (Although if the baby did come from someone outside the family, the church fire becomes much more interesting.)

But if the birth was already in the family, then everything becomes much simpler. Sarah can intimidate Bristol into compliance and silence.

Molly

6/5/2011 08:22:37 am

Brad and Laura, I just scroll through anything rubbernecking says. She tried to start fights on this blog a while ago. She is not contributing anything.

6/5/2011 08:39:56 am

re Rubbernecking: I will say that I don't think that this person is a troll, but someone who is more cautious wrt conclusions and wants clear information regarding facts.

Perhaps now I will be considered a troll and my posts will be scrolled through!

rubbernecking

6/5/2011 08:42:20 am

@BradScharlott, I guess I'm really dim. So the theory is that Palin deliberately planned the unofficial leak via People to avoid responsibility for releasing a birth date? And when leak got reported differently in different outlets, she was forced to make the correction with an official press release?

For what it's worth, the Palins also used the "12/27/08" birthdate in Tripp's custody filings. See page 7,

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/sites/default/files/images/media/files/news/politics/palin_1.pdf

Is there any chance that Palin was advised to not draw too much press attention to Tripp birth because it might only reopen questions about Trig's? For example, if the hospital had listed Tripp's birth announcement, wouldn't this have compared negatively to Trig's missing announcement?

Is it possible the Palins lied about Tripp's birth date? Sure. But if the goal is to convince people like Justin Elliot they've missed the big story, I don't think people like Elliot will dismiss the gov press release as easily as you do.

For better or worse, most people give some level of deference to gov issued press releases. Most people will view the gov press release as more reliable than anonymous comments on a blog post.

Floyd M. Orr link

6/5/2011 08:47:35 am

See if this HP article helps to clear up the matter, Brad:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/02/sarah-and-bristol-release_n_154890.html

LTA

6/5/2011 08:54:52 am

Wait...so, out of the 3 babies CBJ delivered in the year or two prior to Trig's "birthday" on 4/18/08...one of those was a baby born the first week of Feb 08???

Didn't nurse shitfire say Trig was born in "early Feb"...and that CBJ WAS present at the birth??

Any hard evidence which shows a baby was born at that time & attended by CBJ? Because that would definitely be something to look at!

Also, & this is purely opinion based on my experience of going through a very traumatic delivery with a very premature baby--
Trig was known to have DS. He had at least one confirmed cardiac defect, correct? His 'mother' was of advanced age for pregnancy, he had presumably questionable or low APGARs given the jaundice and the fact that his life sustaining little "uterquarium" had sprung a leak hours and hours prior to birth...basically what I'm saying is this poor little guy had a LOT of scary things going on.

Yet CBJ, a doctor who is not EVEN an obstetrician or gynecologist much less any kind of neonatal sub specialist...is the attending doctor?

No WAY. I mean just No. Way.
Do you know what kind of a liability issue that would be for the hospital? Factor in the issue of the patient being a SITTING GOVERNOR of one of the largest states in the union...

It is seriously mind boggling to think there are people who buy this.

Oh and "holy shit this is crazy"? Sending your donation check to SarahPAC every week doesn't count as "pseudo-regular contact" with the Palins. As for these "pictures from inside the home which don't lie"...why don't you show is ONE? Just one, so everyone here can appologize to you?

That's what I thought.

rubbernecking

6/5/2011 09:03:58 am

@BradScharlott, FYI I just emailed you a PDF of the 12/31/08 press release.

On another post, I asked Laura if she'd consider an open thread for the subset of people who like to work on the fact-based analysis. People who like the speculative stuff could work in another open thread.

Otherwise, it feels like we're trying to play soccer and baseball on the same field with a couple of hooligans deliberately picking fights. Nobody seems to know who to trust.

LTA

6/5/2011 09:10:00 am

This might be a stupid question but I'm sure someone can help me...

I would like for everyone to be able to see the photos of Trig which Bailey included in his book. I bought the book on my reader and I do know how to capture the page, which I have already done. How may I get the page captures from my iPhone to a place where everyone else can see them?

Prof. Scharlott, thank you so much for answering my question! What a great feeling for you & Laura to know you've breathed new life into this vitally important issue. And I just love hearing you say "no doubts"!

I love Andrew Sullivan but I feel like if he was FULLY committed to the truth coming out he would at least MENTION this issue on one of his frequent prime time television appearances. Then again, I have heard Bill Maher will physically, bodily throw someone out of his studio for just daring to mention a "conspiracy" he himself does not agree with. So I recognize Sully's hands may be tied on this one. Yes on second thought, Sully likely pushes the envelope as much as he deems safe to do so without losing the platform he has.

rubbernecking

6/5/2011 09:17:52 am

Here's another link to the Wayback Alaska State press releases:

http://wayback.archive-it.org/1200/20090726070203/http://www.gov.state.ak.us/archive.php

You should be able to use the "View the next 100 Listings" at the bottom of the page to scroll back to the 2008 releases.

Davis

6/5/2011 09:23:09 am

Someone posted on Gryphen yesterday I think that there is a photo of Levi and Trig in the hospital with Levi wearing the type of bracelet hospitals only give out to mom and dad. Is there someone here who can verify this? Maybe its a photo of Tripp and Levi and the poster erroneously connected it to Trig.

Conscious at last

6/5/2011 09:29:57 am

Based on Audrey's(PD) website photos,
Palin started the scarf parade on or about February 19, 2008.

This is when we suspect that Trig #1 was born, so it makes sense.

She knew that she was being supported by Fundie leaders for GOP-VP. So as soon as McCain got the nod, she announced the next day. FOR THE PURPOSES OF PROVING A FAKED PREGNANCY, this amazing co-incidence cannot be emphasized enough.

I am always happy when new folks enter the discussion, but we don't have to re-invent the wheel each day. I say this because Palin's Deceptions is still available and the last few posts contain an EXCELLENT discussion raising very serious questions about Tripp's birth or shall we say Bristol's second known pregnancy.

For anyone who is not familiar with this, I highly recommend it.

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 09:30:41 am

RB: That was just a horseshit rationalization, saying the PR release was needed because of the different date. People Magazine came up with the first date, and then People changed to the second date. And that is the date Palin's office went with.

If date confusion was the issue Palin and McAllister would have immediately jumped on the wrong date immediately instead of waiting two days.

But I have decided you are a troll. You are pretending that McAllister's second statement was on the up-and-up, ignoring the fact that his first statement was ridiculous, the one saying the Guv's office would have no comment because concern for privacy.

Concern for privacy? Palin threw her daughter under the bus, outing her pregnancy to whole world in August. If Bristol truly had the baby on the 27th, and it was not induced prematurely (for example), of course she would have trumpeted the fact. Instead, we have McAllister saying "we will have no comment on that" because it is not state business. Yes, you are dimming dim RB -- but deliberately and craftily so. It took me this long to catch on.

Molly, you were right -- this person is disingenuous.

Conscious at last

6/5/2011 09:44:41 am

Brad-

You are so decent and honest with everyone here-- I guess we all know what that presence of these "crafty commenters" means.

Laura, this blog has hit "paydirt."
Thank you so much!!

FrostyAK

6/5/2011 10:30:02 am

On Dominionism:

We must remember that GOP political activity in AK is heavily attached to fundamentalist churches, and in a majority of cases to Dominionism.

This is not just an Alaska phenomenon. Look at all the bible belt and middle of the country politics with this correlation in mind, and it will be easier to see what is happening.

$arah had been indoctrinated with the Dominionist (7 mountains) beliefs as early as age 14. She has multiple psychological problems, and was quite easy to USE. Most everything she has done politically has been Dominionist directed, including the Trig hoax I believe. She has now become so full of herself that she is less and less manageable for those who pull her strings. Do not dismiss anything that has gone on with her politically as being not correlated to Dominionism.

It came out today on Firedoglake's Book Salon that Frank Bailey will be donating proceeds from his book about palin to his Talibangelical church for their political activities in making abortion illegal even for rape and incest victims.

Gina

6/5/2011 10:36:15 am

If you suspect Trig was born in Feb, then he cant possibly be Bristol's. Bristol was attending school starting Jan in Anch.

Liza

6/5/2011 10:37:37 am

To be fair, it has never been proven that Bristol was pregnant before Tripp. One cannot rely on just word of mouth.

6/5/2011 10:44:52 am

I just remembered something - Bristol had that car accident outside the clinic on Feb 8, 2008. http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/09/more-about-bristols-car-accident.html

Can we nail down that date for CBJ's delivery in Feb?

KipsBay

6/5/2011 10:48:19 am

wow. The real story is Trig is not as complicated as you all are imagining it to be. Some of the things you're saying are outrageous. BRISTOL WAS NOT PREGNANT BEFORE TRIPP.

TRIG IS NOT BRISTOLS

colacarat

6/5/2011 10:53:15 am

I've been reading about this for years now and trying to absorb all of the new clues on this blog for the past few days. It just gets creepier and creepier.

So, Bobcat Logic, Palin named Trig Paxson Van Palin after "Bud" Paxson, who paid off Vicki Iseman to sleep with McCain? Oy. As if the name Trig wasn't a big enough insult.

The other thing that occurred to me was that Wholy Mary's location may not refer to a geographic area. Maybe "where [he/she] is writing from" refers to a type of facility or agency, such as a jail, prison, or rehab. She didn't want Laura to reveal her location; maybe the facility is obvious via the email address used for comments?

Wholy Mary's 8 months also may not refer to the Republican convention. Does anyone know of someone due to be released from a facility (or from probation) in 8 months?

CA Guy

6/5/2011 11:02:18 am

Welcome one and all: trolls and goblins. It will never cease to amaze me those how will defend this grifter.

After The Wild ride comes the Revisionist Midnight Ride, and the Wiki Modification:
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/06/paul-revere-and-palins-mind.html

What fun. Now if we can only get Chris Crocker to do a "leave-Sarah-Alone!!" video.

Banyan

6/5/2011 11:07:07 am

@ LTA

I agree with you that CBJ could not/would not have overseen/delivered Baby 1, born in February, or Baby 2, "born" April 18, although she may have "been there" in some other at both "events" in some other capacity.

Re: the April 18th "birth scenario" --the complications you listed were the ones that were allegedly found at birth, suspected before birth, or developed a day or so after birth (the jaundice, for example usually takes a day or so to show up (except in certain babies who've become severely ill in utero.) But it almost always shows up to some degree eventually in even mildly preterm babies.

All of this and MORE would have been suspected as major possibilities at birth of a DS preemie, including very serious heart defects, intestinal and/or esophageal atresia, tracheoesophageal fistula, duodenal atresia, and general hypotonia (lack of muscle tone) impairing breathing and normal feeding.

That such a baby would have been INDUCED at Mat-Su Hospital (rather than transferred first to Anchorage) is incredible (as in unbelievable).

***

But back to anon 4:32 ("shitfire") I have a few questions:

Did she ever specifically describe herself as a "nurse'?

Was she in a position to know about when or if a DS diagnosis was actually made on Baby1?

I am suspicious of this part of her story because it is critical for the care of any NICU baby to be promptly investigated for the (relatively common) condition of Down Syndrome especially when other anomalies are visibly present (the ear?).

Just looking for typical abnormalities of the hands and feet, which would be part of any thorough neonatal evaluation would be a quick tip off to the need for prompt, further investigation. And if Baby 1 is indeed Ruffles, the ear deformity alone would call for quick checks for quick and thorough testing for other birth defects and related conditions.

To quote from one neonatal text (Merenstain and Gardner, 4th Edition) :

"If these conditions [trisomy 21, etc] are not suspected and diagnosed in the critically ill neonate, an inappropriate course of action might be taken. Thus a specific diagnosis becomes imperative."

A quick and dirty diagnosis can be made in a few hours (using bone marrow) or a day or two using lymphocytes from blood (that would be constantly drawn form the baby in any event.)

Also from the textbook:
"Chromosome analysis should be obtained in all critically ill infants... before death occurs."

So this testing would NOT have been precluded by the gravity of Baby 1's alleged condition, in fact it might have made quick diagnosis more imperative.

The results of more detailed testing might not be available (or reported in some of the medical paper work) for a week or more, but I doubt the story that Baby 1 was not suspected immediately of DS and that he was not tested (for two weeks!) because of "startling prematurity" or because of his grave condition.

This makes me suspect that "shitfire" -- who otherwise sounds convincing -- is not a nurse with hands-on experience in the NICU.

I rather suspect she has seen some charting or heard rumors, that may not accurately reflect the full story.

Banyan

6/5/2011 11:14:44 am

Sorry for all the typos in the post above. I'm trying to make dinner and post at the same time.

SLQ

6/5/2011 11:26:24 am

KipsBay: Well, we have 1 "insider" person stating Bristol is Trig's mother, and another one insinuating that. They've given reasons why they "know" or believe this, and we can then each decide whether it's believable or not, or can validate it in the future.

So . . . why should we believe you that Bristol is NOT Trig's mother? What hat do you have to throw into the ring?

SLQ

6/5/2011 11:28:11 am

Brad -- I was convinced about rubbernecking's status the other night, late, when he/she insisted Anon 6:32 was PROVEN unreliable due to the church fire file cabinet allegations. What he/she was saying just didn't make any sense -- the "facts" he/she was spouting didn't jive with the conclusions.

alexis

6/5/2011 11:33:42 am

@KipsBay

So what is the story if its not that complicated?????

KMiller

6/5/2011 11:40:20 am

"She rushed so quickly from the podium afterwards that Texas Gov. Rick Perry nervously asked if she was about to deliver the baby then. She made it to the airport, and gave birth hours after landing in Anchorage to Trig, who is diagnosed with Down Syndrome. "Maybe they shouldn't have let me fly, but I wasn't showing much so they didn't know," she says.'"

Sarah "wasn't showing much" on the flights back to Alaska because she was her regular, non-pregnant size. The baby-pillow-tummy was making that trip IN HER SUITCASE.

rubbernecking

6/5/2011 11:43:20 am

I bow out. When the trolls fact-check, shitfire is "plausible", and the co-commenters complain there are too few blogs that permit speculative incest accusations...well, maaannn, I'm in the wrong place. I do not understand the rules of this game.

Over and out.

Tada

6/5/2011 12:02:19 pm

"rubbernecking"
I don't remember all your posts, but based on the ones I remember, I don't believe you're a troll. I was surprised Brad Scharlott drew that conclusion from your posts.
I don't understand why the Dec birthdate of Tripp is controversial? I believe we all agree that Trig was NOT born in April, right? In my opinion, Trig was born no later than first half of February and Tripp was conceived no later than second half of March. If Tripp was conceived in late March, he would be due in late Dec, so why is there a need to believe Palin was lying about the Dec birth date? I know Tripp was not presented to the world until several weeks later, but I believe the reason for that may have just been that they were shopping around for the best deal for exclusive pictures?

SLQ

6/5/2011 12:09:49 pm

Tada: Tripp's Dec "birthdate" is controversial because there are no facts supporting it. It doesn't mean it couldn't have happened in December, but it doesn't mean it did. The circumstances surrounding his birth are strange, given Sarah's reliance on his birth to disprove the "Bristol as Trig's mother" theory.

There is no "need" to believe Palin is lying about the Dec birth date, but it is open for debate. We have Anon 4:32 claiming it was some 5 weeks later, which is the reason for the renewed speculation.

campaigntriviafan

6/5/2011 12:24:27 pm

Regarding Wholy Mary: He or she was clear that there was something preventing him or her from talking for 8 months. That would be February 2012. Maybe there was an employment or confidentiality contract involved, or both.One of the better known McCain staff people said that there were staffers who agreed that if it looked like P might really become VP or P they would tell what they knew. Wholy Mary could be publicly reminding SP of that fact.There are lots of people on and around a campaign who could see or hear things. Could WM be one of the people who accessed Mercede's computer and photos? Would he or she be a detective/opposition research/dirty tricks type ? Since contracts tend to run in multiples of years, I suggest WM could be someone who either was hired or left a position in February, most likely Feb.07. That would make Feb 12 5 years.
I don't think it matters who WM is and I don't think we should try to reveal who he or she is. I can't help wondering if WM's comments were the reason the bus tour ended so abruptly. Maybe Wholy Mary is a name that would mean something to Palin, a clue, an inside joke, something that would shock her when she saw it. Whoever WM is, Thank-you and please keep commenting.

Tada

6/5/2011 12:28:41 pm

...continued from my prior comment...
I remember having read somewhere that Levi was living/staying at the Palin house at one point. Could that have been in March 2008? If so, what do you think of the following theory:
Trig was born prematurely no later than first half of February. His condition had improved by first week of March and he was then released from the hospital. Levi then moved in/stayed at Palin's house to help Bristol take care of him. They had ample time and opportunity to sleep together and believed they were "safe" - that Bristol could not become pregnant again so soon. She becomes pregnant again in second half of March and announces it to Sarah in April. Sarah gets furious. Sarah is walking around with a pillow on her stomach pretending to be pregnant and then Bristol is pregnant again? She allowed Levi to stay in her house and then Levi impregnates Bristol again? Sarah is so upset that she refuses to wait until mid-May to "give birth". She plans the wild ride and arranges with CBJ to arrive at the hospital conveniently when the night-shift is taking place and "gives birth" conveniently when the morning-shift is taking place in the morning of April 18th...

Laura Novak link

6/5/2011 12:35:41 pm

Rubbernecking, on the off chance you DO come back, I want to say that I never took you for a troll. Someone who had different opinions some times, but not a troll in the classic sense. I'm sorry you felt driven away.

The problem with the two threads plan, upon first blush, is that you can't imagine how many people here are posting under different names, contradicting themselves, and appearing serious one minute, and goofy the next.

Thank you for all the time you've taken here. I appreciate it.

KMiller

6/5/2011 12:37:27 pm

Deb asked,"At any rate, IS SP crazy enough to be out in public if they have a secret that is icky and would hurt her own children?"

Yes. She is that crazy & then some.

Susan

6/5/2011 12:50:57 pm

Bristol gave birth by mid Feb to a "startingly" premature baby with multiple complications.
Sarah Palin hoaxed a pregnancy and made up an incredible holey story about returning to Wasilla to be induced and delivered. Voila, a beautiful plump DS baby is presented to the world. Mysteriously Palin demonstrates no visible signs that are associated with a Mother who has just delivered, with the exception of a few extra pounds and a fuller face (pre cosmetic surgery) which is probably the result of doubling up her normal order of Crunch Wrap Supremes. Nor does she continue to display any of the physical attributes of a woman who is breast feeding her infant. Presenting a robust infant son at the RNC, who by physical appearances does appear to have suffered any of the setbacks normally confronting a premature new born. And the world says "Ahhhhh!" What a beautiful baby, and what an incredible superhuman Mom. BS.

I suspect there has been a baby swap. I wonder and hope that "Ruffles" is in caring arms and a loving enviornment.

Trolls have ramped up their activity. I don't know if Rubbernecking is a troll or just strident is his/her version of how things really went, but I will admit I was at least suspicious that they were attempting to obsfucate or derail the conversation.

The trolls maybe Palin operatives, or cult followers, or perhaps someone who truly has something to hide. In any and all ways, they are feeling some heat.

Thanks for all who have the tenacity to continue to scratch and claw through the confusion to get to the truth.

kelgal

6/5/2011 12:51:22 pm

Banyan, just because shitfire from IM said tests that are normally standard procedure in a birth like Trig's (assuming all other details such as extreme prematurity are correct) were lacking, doesn't mean s/he is inaccurately presenting the story or might not be a nurse.

I am an Early Intervention Specialist who has worked with infants with develomental disabilities whose "expert" medical care was not only subpar, but in some cases actually caused the diagnosed disability.

That said, most of the infants I worked with absolutely were treated by medical staff who did outstanding jobs in both diagnosis and treatment. The majority of babies I worked with would not have survived without such excellent medical care.

It's obvious that you have a medical background-probably in neonatology-so you have surely seen the kind of frighteningly inferior if not criminally negligent treatment that some hospitals tolerate.

I may be being naive, but both shitfire and Wholy Mary's comments seemed to have an authenticity that makes me think they may be legit.

Thanks for your knowledgable and thought provoking comments.

alexis

6/5/2011 12:52:37 pm

@ Tada

I like your line of thinking. I do recall hearing the levi's lived at the palin's at some point.I think he even stated it while he was on the tyra banks show.

However if the babygate was a simple as covering for bristol/levi. Then i believe it wouldn't have remained secret until now.

@ Laura
Thanks for giving us the platform for discussion. Care to share any of the multiple identity posters?? ha ha!!

Or any of their idea's that are derailing the convo??

Tada

6/5/2011 12:52:46 pm

@SLQ
Ok. I obviously do not not what actually happened, but I think we should be careful about creating unnecessary controversies. In my opinion, creating a controversy around the Dec birth of Tripp will not do any good at this point. I actually think that if we cause a controversy about the birth-date of Tripp, it could come back and "haunt us", because I believe he was born in late December and I believe Palin can prove that. So, if we create a controversy of that birth, Bristol may release the birth-certificate and we will then lose credibility (a clever trap, as they can't release the birth certificate of Trig).
Also, as crazy as the Palins are, I don't believe they would take the chance of confirming Tripp was born in December if he wasn't yet born. So, if someone said he was actually not born until 5 weeks later, I have a really hard time believing that. There would have been a possibility of miscarriage and how would they then have presented a baby?

Laura Novak link

6/5/2011 01:00:11 pm

For now, let me say that the people who "know" Bristol did not give birth to Trig, and who "know" other things about the lovely and loving Palin family, are to a large extent one and the same person posting here.

"She" is probably using five names at this point, but I'd have to count, and that might actually excite her. But they all have the same IP address in Brooklyn, NY.

The other person, it's a little more complicated.

My heads up is that if it doesn't stop, I will release names so you know who to ignore.

Basically, if you want to converse, pick a name, and stick with it.

Meantime, as they say on all the blogs: Don't Feed The Trolls.

god's little helper

6/5/2011 01:09:21 pm

Laura, I too would like to know if you intend to reveal any of the multiple posters. It's sort of become an issue of confidentiality now for some people. I"m not really sure if you should or not because I think it may drive some people away who may be able to tell us more about Palin's lies. What do you think Laura?

KMiller

6/5/2011 01:11:29 pm

Conscious at Last on 6/3 said "While I remain skeptical of individuals, I have a clear sense that there are 'movements under the sea' to insure that Palin is dead politically. She can remain a reality show clown and media whore, but not a serious candidate."

I agree,and I think Sarah knows her time is running short because of what is being posted in public forums, and that is why she's hightailed it back to Alaska mid-tour. The skeletons are coming out of the closet, aren't they, Quitter?

What goes around, comes around--!

Tada

6/5/2011 01:13:59 pm

@ Alexis
I also don't believe Levi fathered Trig. As per one of my prior comments I believe Trig may have been fathered by Keith (Levi's father).

Brian

6/5/2011 01:20:34 pm

Next thing you're going to tell me is Jesus wasn't born on December 25. Sheesh!

SLQ

6/5/2011 01:22:35 pm

Tada, you made me wonder. Maybe the reason for the Trig imposter at the hospital with the Heath's is that Bristol (or the real mother) refused to allow her baby to be used for the farce. So, $arah, in a hissy fit, went ahead with it, anyway.

That seems to be the gist of what you're saying, and it does explain the rush. $arah is not known for her patience when she feels thwarted.

AnonymousByChoice

6/5/2011 01:27:24 pm

there is SO much troll action going on here-to pull people in different directions
I think it is going to come out from someone who knows. There are far too many conspiracy theories and this has to be something within the family that then Sarsh took advantage of. For the person who said it can't be incest because abortion would have taken care of that. Really??? I don't think that's necessarily true-you must not have studied incest or childhood abuse much. Young people often don't tell anyone their pregnant until it's too late. There is a huge amount of secrecy and shame. Plus this is a supposed pro-life crowd although who knows about that.
If you've been reading about this since 2008 every few months sone posts that it is such a sordid story that once we hear about it we may not want to keep talking about it at all. That's how awful it is. I have no idea though I don't buy advanced planning and crazy conspiracy theories. Many times it's just the most obvious thing-
And the only thing we mostly all agree on is Sarah faked the pregnancy. Hopefully the babygate book has some insight or someone who knows will finally talk. You know some want to but can't or think they can't.
Theses and

Davis

6/5/2011 01:27:55 pm

I think speculation on a sinister conception of Trig just plants more trees to obscure the forest.

A truly sinister and scandalous pregnancy would almost certainly have been terminated.

Also, and absent a termination, the hoax would have began taking shape much sooner.

SLQ

6/5/2011 01:33:50 pm

Davis, I disagree. As AnonByChoice states, the emotions and "decisions" of a victim of incent or a victim of adult sexual abuse of a child are not necessarily as rational as you suggest. Such a child (and I consider a 16 year-old a child, having had a few of them) may not necessarily consent to an abortion. As some here have suggested, the cover-up may have gone in to high gear when the VP candidacy became a real possibility. Attempts to simplify the decisions and timing behind the hoax, which we do not yet understand, is frankly, pointless.

SLQ

6/5/2011 01:35:17 pm

Laura, thank you for staying on top of the multiple name posting situation.

FrostyAK

6/5/2011 01:41:35 pm

On Wholy Mary - some have guessed that the WH has to do with the White House.

What if it is code for Wasilla High? THAT might be enough to derail the Magical Mystery Tour... someone, or possibly many in Wasilla know the truth. Eventually they may be able to tell it, without retribution on their families.

Nothing has been solved, but the more clues we have to look at, the more apt someone is to make the correct final connections.

As for stopping discussion on this to protect innocents - I think it is WAY to late for that. THAT is on $arah.

Laura knows where I'm posting from, and I really don't care who else knows. If I had the pot of beans to spill, it would have been done a long time ago.

SLQ

6/5/2011 01:43:18 pm

Tada, I don't disagree that speculation about Tripp's birth date carries risks, but that theory has floated around for a long time. And, the fact that they went public with a date means little, as they also went public with the April 18 date for Trig, and embellished it with "facts" to the nth degree, and even a hospital photo.

All of the speculation carries risks, but this forum isn't really going "public" with anything. I don't see anything wrong with speculating, as long as we don't pretend to reach concrete conclusions without substantial evidence. That's my two cents, anyway.

god's little helper

6/5/2011 01:45:55 pm

Alexis, I too think that little Triggy bear was fathered by Keith. I also think that Bristol is undergoing some treatment in a foreign country by a psychiatrist.

Actually I think a lot of things but thinking does no good. When the thinking stops and the telling starts it's going to be telling by somebody who won't be questioned.

I mean, you can't trust the Dems to tell the truth and be believed when it comes to outing a bagger. So as long as the baggers like Palin are on good terms (sorta) with the Repubs then you can't count on them either.

Did you all know that the Repub base hate Sarah's and the bagger's fukkin guts?

Davis

6/5/2011 02:02:13 pm

@SLQ I just think that this is a political scandal and thus the hoax was about political gain, not family shame.

And I think people who speculate on incest or rape carry their water. I think Sarah's political fortunes might not take such a dramatic hit if she fesses to covering up the pregnancy to protect the mother from the public shame of incest or rape.

I would also hope that incest or rape did not happen in this case and I get the sense that those speculating otherwise actually hope that it did.

And I would also hate to see Laura's wonderful blog overrun by these types.

Banyan

6/5/2011 02:14:31 pm

@kelgal

I know from sad personal experience about the consequences of mistaken (or just medically unvalidated) NICU care can make in the outcomes of preemies and other high-risk babies.

Many preemies bear permanent marks of these iatrogenic disasters. I am a "special mom" to one such baby.

And most of these mistakes are not knowingly made by docs and nurses. These were made by people who thought they were acting on the best info available-- the standard of care -- at the time. These "mistakes" are usually recognized only in the light of extensive retrospective research. Old habits change slowly.

Neonatologists (at their private conferences) will acknowledge that they don't know what they're doing on such basics as whether to resuscitate with oxygen or room air, whether/when to use neuro-toxic steroids, what levels of oxygen are needed for a baby in respiratory distress, whether anesthesia is safe to use in infant surgery, and it goes on from there...

But neonatology is far from the only medical sub-specialty where today's wisdom turns out to be tomorrow's medical catastrophe -- cardiology and oncology spring immediately to mind, and I could go on...

But, checking a preemie's hands and feet (and ear deformities) is so basic and time-honored, and failing to notice important related issues (such as trisomy) just doesn't happen in real life, in my experience. At least, I'd like to see validation of it happening at a major teaching hospital, where I suspect Baby 1 was delivered and cared for.

Such exams are as basic as APGAR scoring (which, is also an inexact "science," I realize).

But I can't imagine that these multiple clues would be missed by multiple caregivers-- and all NICU babies have multiple caregivers.

That being said, I found much of anon 4:32's account to be compelling. I am not calling her general credibility into question. I just have to wonder how much of the story she was privy to?

SLQ

6/5/2011 02:19:00 pm

Davis, I can only speak for myself in saying that I absolutely DO NOT hope there was a rape or incest involving a 16-year-old girl. Quite the opposite. In fact, because these theories do seem to explain some of what seems inconceivable (the pregnancy hoax), if they happen to be true, it makes me very sympathetic to Bristol (if she is the mother). Not just for the initial act, but for the coverup and failure to hold the perpetrators accountable.

You say you hate to see Laura's wonderful blog overrun by "these types." But the reason "these types" suspect such things is that it has long been said by people who appear to know, that the truth about this hoax is tragic. The speculation did not arise out of thin air. Do these people who suggest tragic circumstances, in fact, know? Who knows? I tend to think they do have an air of believability. Time will tell.

For the record, I absolutely do not believe this is purely political. The risks are too great and the consequences too involved to be merely a political hoax. Not even for a person who is demonstrably as troubled as Palin.

Perhaps you have not seen the photos of the ruffled ear baby? Those photos are what caught my attention in what I believed at the time was a loony conspiracy theory. There is no political explanation for his disappearance, and I hope he is safe and happy.

KMiller

6/5/2011 02:45:18 pm

Viola said, "4. A psychotic does what he/she HAS to do. The internal scripts are looped....I believe that Palin’s lies are looped. She can’t tell the truth because her childhood was a series of lies, whether from abuse, secrets, or lies about paternity/maternity in her own family of origin. "

I believe this is a key to the mystery of why Sarah decided to pretend that she was pregnant. Anytime you are dealing with narcissists, you will find layers of lies, some which are told to cover lies which came before. There are several very accomplished liars in the Palin family.

6/5/2011 02:49:27 pm

Brooklyn has a lot of time on her hands.

LTA

6/5/2011 02:55:13 pm

Laura- so the fact that practically every person who extolls the many virtues photographically captured in the Palin home is allergic to apostrophes is NOT a coincidence??!! I KNEW IT!!!

Now that you have said pick a name and stick with it I feel I should clarify...the "L" in LTA is for Liza, and it seems as soon as I started posting here, someone started posting under the name Liza. But *I* have never posted under anything except LTA. Now that I see someone else using the name Liza I thought maybe I should change my name. Except now I don't want to because I don't want you to think I'm being all trolltastic.

So... I'm going to stick with LTA...and point out that I am not SLQ (which could be confusing among so many posters) nor am I the one using the name "Liza".

Laura, can you say whether or not Wholly Mary also "happens" to be a Brooklynite?

Banyan:
I'm glad you agree that CBJ in no way would have handled a delivery like the one Palin was allegedly expecting. My own nicu experience is the only one I have to draw on but based on the little I know CBJ would not have handled a delivery/birth like that one unless there was something like a natural disaster which prevented more qualified staff from being there. And as you point out...they had to add insult to injury by saying it was an INDUCTION, after all that water breaking, big laughs/big contractions hullabaloo.

I have a roundtable question and I am most especially interested in the answers of Laura, Prof. Scharlott, and people who like myself, have close family members who think Sarah Palin is a harmless dolt, a joke, nothing more--

Do you have to defend your interest/position on Babygate to your spouse, significant other, etc?

Karen

6/5/2011 02:59:55 pm

I am one of the name-switchers. I had switched from Karen to Anon after I kept getting into spats with @rubbernecking over the past week or two and I couldn't quite figure out his or her angle. Apologies for the switch, however there is another commenter with the same name, so there's that.

KMiller

6/5/2011 03:00:34 pm

From the Greta/Palin church fire transcripts:

PALIN: We had folks stop by our house. I was at home over the weekend, and we had folks stop by our house at about 1:30 in the morning, knocking on our door, letting us know (1) that the church was burning. And they wanted to let us know (2). We live only about a mile away from the church, just letting us know (3) that there were some crazy, mean-spirited people out there and just giving us a heads-up (4). That's how we found out.

Jewels said:

"just letting us know" or "just giving us a heads-up" mentioned FOUR times in this short statement. The lady doth protest too much...

Also, the strangeness of folks stopping by at that time of the morning (1:30 AM) to let them know seems VERY odd to me.

How did she know at that point that the fire was arson and not an accident?
______________________
Think about what we know about Sarah, and narcissism in general. Although a narcissist is probably not going to tell you a completely truthful account of a situation, especially if it would reflect poorly on them, what they often do is tell you a story which contains PART of the truth. (Sarah does this a lot.)

So what was the real story about the church fire night? Someone probably really did knock on the Palin's door at 1:30am, that much I believe. But I think it was Sarah and Todd's firestarter friend stopping by, just to confirm that the "job" they had hired him to do at the church had been taken care of.

SLQ

6/5/2011 03:03:43 pm

LTA, now you have my very curious. I'm not sure why you singled me out as someone who could be confused with you. Perhaps because we seem to have the same tone?

Given what you said about "Liza," it's also curious that someone here is posting as my first name, should someone have the ability to find that out.

For the record, I've only ever posted as SLQ.

Laura, given what you've said about the Brooklyn poster, and another, and what Lisa is saying, I'm beginning to think we're all being played. Perhaps beginning with Wholy Mary, perhaps after to obfuscate "Mary's" and Anon 4:32's revelations. Or perhaps I'm being paranoid.

Brad -- I've let know how to reach me, and I would be very interested in learning if someone has been able to make it appear that they are posting from my IP address. Very interested. Please advise, if possible.

6/5/2011 03:10:36 pm

Aren't a lot of Palin emails about to be released? Perhaps they will tell us something.

And Laura, I for one appreciate your telling us that so many posts come from a single brooklyn palinbot.

LTA

6/5/2011 03:19:13 pm

KMiller,

I really have issues with that line of reasoning. It's like giving SP a pass just because Creepy Chuck is...Creepy. Of course your upbringing shapes your personality but SP is a grown woman and she makes choices which reflect her internal compass. Her Paul Revere faux pas is a perfect example. We ALL make mistakes, why can't she just be normal and say Oh my goodness I can't believe I made such a goof! This is what happens when you put your makeup on in a roving RV, ha ha ha!

But no...the crazy whozits has to literally try and RE WRITE history! Do you know how many lies she told to cover up what was just a blunder, a brain fart? There was so many CHOICES she had to make and turn it into a fiasco...it was on the national news in a week of death, tornadoes, international incidents...

Because she makes HORRIBLE choices. I have to believe much of what she does is choice, a dullish path chosen because of foolish pride. This Trig issue WILL end up taking her down, because she either was ashamed of real life (ie pregnant teen) or undertook the most convoluted political scheme ever. While I could totally see Creepy Chuck standing over her with puppet strings...I really feel if anyone is pulling strings it IS her. She just doesn't stop and untangle when she should...she keeps right on puppeting up until she's so tripped up in the strings she can't walk in her too-big heels!

emrysa

6/5/2011 03:22:21 pm

the fact that one crazed quitter fan goes to several different blogs and posts repeatedly under several different names (even after being called out!) really makes you wonder just how many real people are posting at the pro-palin sites.

LTA

6/5/2011 03:23:42 pm

SLQ...wait, YOUR name is Liza also??? So we have me, another Liza, AND you?

That is wild...I'm so sorry you felt singled out--honestly the only reason I pointed you out is because I thought it would be easy to confuse LTA and SLQ. You know like ABC and XYZ. That's all I meant!

Please don't be paranoid, at least not about this! I was not at all trying to imply someone was posting "as" you or anything sinister.

KMiller

6/5/2011 03:26:59 pm

Laura asked, "How can anyone who lives in Brooklyn, NY know who has play dates in the Palin's home?"

Actually, there is someone in that city who trolls the Politicalgates board as well. We just call her "Brooklyn." ;-)

SLQ

6/5/2011 03:33:52 pm

LTA, no, sorry. I guess I wasn't very clear. My first name is the same name as another poster is using. I'm not stating my first name, because I am suspicious.

I didn't mean to imply anything sinister about your post. I actually wondered if it was because of the initials.

But here's what has me concerned, and I've seen other posters on comments mention this before, but didn't pay much attention. Until a few months ago, I'd never posted on a blog, so this is relatively new to me, and I'll admit to not being very savvy about what is possible, in terms of security.

After I started posting, and after you started posting, both our first names began to be used in separate posts. Your name is pretty unique, which perked up my ears.

I am now wondering if people who wish to play games were somehow able to mine the information we used to log on, or from our IP addresses somehow? My understanding is that the blog owner can access that information, but no one else. But I guess it's possible for a very savvy game-player from a certain politician's camp could mine that information.

Anyway, THAT is what has me concerned, not your post. Sorry if I confused that issue.

SLQ

6/5/2011 03:37:27 pm

LTA, if that IS what is going on, my guess is that person mines our data and attempts to make it look as though they are posting as us. This would allow them to post without entering identifying information, and to remain truly anonymous (although I don't know if they could fake the IP address, regardless). Actually, I don't know if any of that is happening or is even possible. Again, perhaps I'm just paranoid.

kelgal

6/5/2011 03:57:40 pm

Banyan,
You are absolutely right about most mistakes made by medical professionals being the result of mistaken but well intentioned procedures/protocols. The last post I wrote in response to you was hastily written and not well thought out. I apologize for that.

Not to justify my last post, but I feel such frustration at the lack of media attention paid to the Palins' cavalier (to put it kindly) treatment of Trig's needs that it clouded my judgement. I would love to see the Special Olympics or the National Downs Guild take a very forceful public stand against her politically.

Of course you are correct that the easily observable palm creases associated with Downs would be enough of a marker to immediately result in genetic testing.

I am so sorry that you and your child and other family members I'm sure, suffered from what were probably thought of as best practice and unintentionally hurtful NICU experiences. Your gracious response to me is greatly appreciated as are all of your thoughtful and enlightening posts.

This exchange was a reminder for me that one can never assume to know anything about the lives of those we meet in "real" life much less in "cyber" life. Thank you for that and I hope I did not cause you any pain.

AnonymousByChoice

6/5/2011 04:40:00 pm

Davis, how dare you insinuate that people who bring up incest or rape actually WANT it to be that. That is a sick thing to accuse people of. I could say to you WHY are you SO against discussing it? Who are you? Maye you are a Palin family member trying to dissuade from that discussion?? And you hope Laurasia blOg doesn't become overrun by these " types." Do you even realize how patronizing your comments are. How do you know Sarah did this for political gain?? Can you prove that was her reason?? The only way tou could is if you are actually involved. You cannot rule out abuse or incest either. You don't know it wasn't that. NONE of us know for sure her motivations. Please do not try to stop a discussion if you do not know for sure that isn't a factor. No Obe is accusing anyone by discussing it. The people who shut down any possibility are suspect.
Also you are so off the mark about how abuse or incest survivors and their families behave in these circumstances. I do not meant be rude but you clearly do not know about it if you insist it would have been taken care of right away. That is just not true. And I base that on actual research of the family dynamics in communities where this is very prevalent. A lot of this is documented in actual studies that have profiled families. These are kids. They often often tell no one. These are people who are against abortion evenvin cases of rape or incest. Alaska has one of the highest rates in the country.
I have never personally said this absolutely happened. I have NO idea why Sarah did this. But it can't be ruled out either. How could it be when truthfully none of know what happened. The only people who know are the ones involved. The rest is all speculation.

anonfornow

6/5/2011 06:59:39 pm

Here's my theory--I know it sounds bizarre, but Brad and Laura, please think about it:

1) Bristol births a very premature Trig in Dec 07. The date comes from several tip offs: Mercede says that Levi told her at Christmas time that Bristol (who was flat in June 07 but strangely busty in Oct 07) had just had "breast reduction surgery." Also, Bristol was out of school and living with her aunt before Christmas but in Jan or Feb 08, she started back to school--before dropping out again.

2) Bristol becomes pregnant again 4-6 weeks after birthing Trig. THIS is why Sarah announces she is pregnant on March 5: Sarah might be able to survive politically if it became known her 17 year old daughter had a child, but there is no way she could survive if it became known that Bristol got pregnant TWICE.

3) Sarah cannot admit to McCain or to the GOP that she knew Bristol was pregnant when she told McCain she was willing to be his VP. Therefore, Bristol's due date is fudged. She is really due in October, but when Sarah finally admits Bristol's pregnancy to McCain, she gives a later date. This false, later date also avoids the embarrassment of having the birth fall in the middle of the campaign.

4. Sarah is officially selected as VP candidate; Bristol is trotted out as "5 months pregnant" even tho she is really 7 months. At the Convention, her bust is padded to diminish the comparative size of her belly (see DWTS for a similar fakery). Levi tells us the baby is due Dec 18; Chuckie says Dec 20. Are we seriously expected to believe the father and greatgrandfather don't know the due date? Well, it becomes believable if it's a made-up date they're trying to remember.

5. Bristol has Tripp in October. When she is seen after that, she is postpartum. Sometimes she stuffs tissues in the pocket of her sweatshirt. This is why she looks more pregnant in the video taken in Walmart in October than she looks in photos taken in November.

6. A strange unofficial birth announcement from a great-aunt to People magazine is made in late December; the governor's office strangely refuses to make a public announcement or confirmation.

7. No photos of the baby--not even candid snaps or press shots-- are seen until February, when Bristol appears on Greta, then goes on her round of interviews in NY with a huge baby who looks a good two months bigger than he should if he had indeed been born in Dec (he is also drugged so he can't give himself away).

I know, I know: it's crazy enough to think the Palins are lying about the birthdate of one baby without suspecting them of lying about the second. But these people lie about anything and everything. And if you shift Trig's birth to December 07 and have Bristol's second pregnancy begin earlier, Sarah's little charade suddenly makes perfect sense: she HAD to pretend to be pregnant and give birth to Trig or risk the truth--that Bristol got herself knocked up twice, once aged 16, once aged 17--coming out and totally torpedoing her political aspirations.

There were people in Wasilla back in the fall of 08 who were confused when it was announced that Bristol was 5 moths, because they were saying, "How can that be? She must be in her third trimester by now." In the past those reports were dismissed because they didn't fit with what we thought we knew. This scenario explains it.

Brad Scharlott

6/5/2011 08:44:01 pm

RB: OK, I was too quick to call you a troll. But I'm convinced you were being deliberately and disingenuously "dim" - you know that Dec. 27 b-day for Tripp is not well grounded, and you know why. Palin and McAllister were obviously playing a little game with the press, and yet you acted as if their actions made perfect sense even if they had nothing to hide. Since you are very knowledgeable, I hope you continue to share.

viola

6/6/2011 12:17:33 am

Two things I know to be true from my own experience. 1. Isolated places attract lawless people who live by their own creed, whether it be lots of guns or preying on innocent. 2. Grifters, fraudsters, liars, and cheats are incorrigible. I've known many, and even after they hit bottom, they go back to what they know.

I went back last night and reread Audrey's Palin's Deceptions posts. It was strange how dead on she was from the beginning and how little new info has surfaced in 3 years time. We've exhausted the logical and factual.

To get anywhere without the whistleblowers, we have to investigate motive and method by using our imagination and what we know about Palin's culture and personality.

There is NO way she hoaxed this pregnancy to protect someone. She has more than proved her only agenda is herself and her own power.

So, given what I know to be true, I offer those three things.

1. Isolation breeds irrational behavior

2. Liars lie even when they don't have to

3. SP would only perform a hoax for her own personal benefit.

viola

6/6/2011 12:24:58 am

I'd change #1 to Isolation breeds people who do what they choose, not what benefits the community or the larger good. (Sorry AK-ers, I know that's not all of you but I've seen this often in my life from living in similar places.)

molly malone

6/6/2011 12:54:46 am

@viola. My experience pretty much matches up with yours, and I think you're spot on. The only thing I would add is that Palin says and does so many erratic and/or really dumb things, that I suspect she is not very bright.

viola

6/6/2011 01:21:06 am

Molly, Erratic behavior, in my experience, is most usually associated with drugs. However, what appears to be erratic to us is reasoned behavior in the eyes of a narcissist or sociopath or whatever label you want to apply to someone who's behavior is outside the norm of accepted behavior. Intelligence makes no difference. The mentally ill (or drug adled) person is lead by old behavior loops or obsessions. Not by reason or intelligence.

I still can't get over how normal and happy the Triggybear photos appear. What I wonder is if they were taken in February before the vp-ship was a given. Trig was ill and fragile-- and then he died. SP had said she'd take over his care for Bristol. But in the course of his short life, SP realizes how politically expedient a DS baby could be to her. She tells CBJ that they are all heartbroken by the death of the baby, and can she wrangle up a new one for the family. CBJ helps out, then to her horror finds that SP begins a pregnancy hoax. But she's already stuck. Meanwhile, Bristol is bereft, and has gotten pregnant again-- and since Sarah has sewn up the GOP interest by that time, they spin Bristol's pregnancy. (OR Bristol's 2nd pregnancy is spun to say she's more pregnant than she is. Either way works.)

The Triggybear photos do not lie, in my feminine gut opinion. Look at Bristol's face. We have no seen that face since.

Viola

6/6/2011 01:29:34 am

And forgive me for going on, but the forum here is too enticing.

All the Babygate folks have their own agenda-- especially the men. Audrey was anonymous and she wrote for justice. Gryph is tied to Mercede, to AK, to being "The Man." I read his blog regularly, but he does have a role to fill. Forget Shannyn and Jeanne. They have their two agendas of wanting to stay "clean" and political. Bree had fun with the whole thing. And now there's Joe McG who harps on SP's presidential run. He needs her viable to sell his book.

All along, I've felt like it would be women who would bring the truth. (That's you, Laura)

And Anon Shitfire and maybe WM. ProChoice Grandma, who was at Audrey's in the beginnning, spinning her plausible theories. There have been a series of mysterious commenters in the last 3 years, all of whom have been women. That doesn't mean that we don't need men in this (That's you, Brad!) but women know. And our outrage is unstoppable. Birth is sacred. Motherhood is sacred. This evil woman has profaned the things I hold dearest.

SLQ

6/6/2011 01:44:51 am

Viola, very well said. It's the baby that gets me, every time. First Ruffles, now Trig, and Piper (because $arah apparently lied to her about their "vacation" and failed to protect her from the crush of the press -- she is a product of her upbringing), and possibly Bristol, who was just 16.

6/6/2011 02:11:18 am

to viola

Although female myself, I would not want to be so dismissive of the work done by males on behalf of this project. And I would prefer not to act as if women never have agendas - just look at Sarah! - and I would also point out that not all those with agendas are necessarily evil.

But of course women have a huge advantage in debunking Sarah's plot. We're the ones who have gotten pregnant, given birth, and dealt with breast pumps and post partum bodies. We know the details. We're less likely to accept (as did David Gregory) Sarah's silly story about getting on two planes while in labor.

god's little helper!

6/6/2011 02:58:18 am

SLQ, and, or, whoever,

Laura shouldn't be answering questions you put to her about bloggers here. But I can and so I will tell you that Wholy Mary is not a Brooklynite and has never been to Brooklyn. Laura can now vouch for that if she cares to.

Aside from that, to all, donworryboutit!

And aside from that, who really knows why Palin cut her bus tour short? It could have been because she felt threatened by someone or it could have been a family emergency with one of the children? You sure couldn't rule out child problems when it comes to Sarah's children can ya!

K.M.R

6/6/2011 03:51:17 am

Viola, You are one smart cookie.
I wanted to tell you so before I head to the new post. It looks as though it's a doozy.

Thank you Laura in advance of even reading it.

god's little helper!

6/6/2011 03:52:28 am

Here's a little task for today class. If you want to take part and have nothing more pressing to do that is.

Let's try to guess which of the anti-Palin blogs are pro-Palin blogs! Like which blog owners are posing as being anti-Palin in order to get the email addresses and identities of those who are schemeing against Sarah. Like so they can later be maybe prosecuted for defamation of character and stuff like that.

How many do ya think they are you betcha?

molly malone

6/6/2011 05:21:59 am

Broklyn, stop it. Now you're just being silly.

CA Guy

6/6/2011 06:01:31 am

Counter-deception is its own art form. The dissemination of counter-intelligence has been a mainstay in the destabilization of political communities for centuries. So very interesting to see it practiced here. Hmmm, let's just think of who would care to "destabilize" a thrown together band of people looking for truth? It's really as simple as that. <<Like so they can discredit people, and stuff like that.>> oh please.

Palintologist

6/6/2011 07:01:47 am

Laura, Congrats on a excellent post. 500 responses WOW!

Lidia17

6/6/2011 07:10:15 am

FrostyAK.. Re. Proceeds to the American Taliban: I knew there would be a good reason not to have bought Bailey’s book!

To Brad and Tada about the Tripp birth: I think there is something intriguing there only because Audrey’s (Palin’s Deceptions) blog got shut down by threats right after she started investigating photos that show equivocal things about Bristol’s pregnancy/pregnancies. So in my mind Bristol may be a key in more than one sense, and someone doesn’t want us to get close to that in particular.

Re. the church arson. I don’t have it to hand, but IIRC Sarah APOLOGIZED for that fire, making it out as though the church had been targeted because of her. So—interesting that she chose to spontaneously “take credit” for it. This could be just narcissism, but… it could also be that she really did have something material to do with it, or at least have had inside knowledge of the event.

SLQ, it’s not a question of “mining data”. When the posting is open, like on Laura’s blog, or Gryphen’s, anyone can type in the name of anyone else that they’ve seen post before. Only the minority who “know” and understand the real poster's pov and lingo would discover the subterfuge; the point is to confuse casual visitors and just cause chaos generally.

Which is why, after disliking Disqus, I have come to appreciate it. When someone posts with their avatar and name, it’s pretty much guaranteed that the person commenting is one and the same as previously encountered. Plus their comments can be re-visited.

Brad, is “RB” “rubbernecking”?? Why do you call them “RB”?

Viola’s comments are quite interesting. I like her focus on the FACES. Palin Territory is “Lie To Me” Territory, and always has been. Bristol LOOKED like the authentic, flushed new mom on Levi’s birthday, and Sarah looked like the angular perky-butt-in-ski with short-shorts, makeup and costume (notice how she tried to look extra “collegiate” and youthful => Bristol’s peer). Levi and Mercede, along with Bristol, instead, do indeed look relaxed and “normal”.

Viola is right that men will never KNOW—viscerally— the degree to which Palin is a fraud.

Kat

6/6/2011 08:41:31 am

Just to sign myself in, I am anon from Saturday, 1008 and 1032. I mostly lurk on a couple of the Palin blogs, and have since '08. I don't post much, mostly because I don't know a thing beyond that gut female instinct Viola mentions. That and I've had the misfortune of spending my professional career in close orbit to another NPD individual who, pathology-wise, could be Palin's separated-at-birth twin. All of the lying & narcissism & batshit crazy crap that Bailey and Dunn talk about is SO spot on -- also the charisma, also the lust for power/limelight -- I've seen it all up close for years. Anyway, if I post here again I will stick to Kat. There have been other Kats on other blogs over the years but I don't think any others here (yet). For what it's worth, Kat is part of my email address, so if someone were playing a data mining game, they might have jumped in with that name.
Looking forward to the discussion to come!

molly malone

6/6/2011 10:20:03 am

Brooklyn enjoys a rich fantasy life and uses many aliases. So far as I know, the majority of the rest of us here are sincere in our attempts to make sense of what--at least on the surface--makes little or no sense at all.

Laura, as a precaution, and to keep everyone from being sidetracked into blunderland, perhaps it would be helpful if you adopted Regina at Palingates m.o. of simply saying, "Hello, Brooklyn, aka (list all the other names originating from that specific address), to alert your readers to the fact that s/he is back again, posting under multiple names, and her "personal experiences have no connection to reality.

Karen

6/6/2011 01:11:51 pm

@ god's little helper--what does "but of course I don't want Laura to say any more than that for the next few days" mean?

anyone?

Brad Scharlott

6/7/2011 04:24:12 am

Lidia: yes, RB is my short hand for Rubbernecking, and that's because I'm dyslexic.

Brad Scharlott

6/7/2011 04:30:38 am

Nice try, God's little helper! A libel suit would entail "discovery," court-ordered fact-finding and depositions under oath. That's the last thing Palin would ever want in this matter.

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