Laura Novak
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Do Doctors Lie? Part 2

5/3/2011

 
Picture
Home from the hospital, at last. My son, who is now 16, rides a BMX bike, and is taking 2 AP courses, here at 4 months.


The second of the two pediatric specialists I've been speaking with had this to say about Mrs. Palin's pregnancy:



I’ll start off by saying that most doctors are honest and try to follow all applicable rules and laws. Of course there are some bad eggs that will lie, cheat and steal but they are the exception.

As a doctor you are often caught between conflicting interests. On one hand you have sworn to “do no harm” via the Hippocratic Oath, thereby putting the patient first. On the other hand, you have to make a living, remain accountable to your practice or employer, and don’t forget the insurance company that pays the bills. I’ll start with a few real life examples to make the point.

Often, I’ll have a parent who asks me to keep their baby in the hospital an extra day or two because they aren’t able to take her home on a particular day. Sometimes it’s because they can’t get off from work, other times it’s because they’re moving. My rule is to look at each situation individually. If the parent has a solid reason for not taking their baby home on a particular day, and the baby could potentially be harmed by the discharge, I’ll put the reason in the note and generally, the insurance company will pay for the extra day. If the parent’s reason for delaying discharge is simply for their convenience, I warn them that the insurance company may deny the extra day and they could get the bill. I will not “fudge” my note.

Of course, there is a gray zone between a solid reason to delay discharge and a flimsy one. One time, I had a parent who was very scared to take her baby home. He was a tiny preemie and had been medically unstable for a long time and had finally straightened himself out. I warned the parents ahead of time that the discharge say was coming. On the discharge day, I called the mother and she said she couldn’t take her baby home. It turns out that she had called in the pest control folks and they would be fumigating her home that day. I’m sure that she purposely scheduled that appointment on the discharge day as a delaying tactic.

I called the case manager, the intermediary between the doctor and insurance company. She reads the charts every day and advises us on insurance issues. She said the extra day would be denied if I thought the baby was otherwise medically ready for discharge. I was between a rock and a hard place. However, this mother was very resourceful and she figured out how to assure that her baby wasn’t going home that day. She had delayed taking the baby’s prescriptions to the pharmacy and they wouldn’t be ready until the next day. I couldn’t send the baby home without his medications, so that settled it.

If I have a difficult parent who is demanding that I do something improper or unethical, and I realize I can’t solve the problem myself, I go straight to risk management. They contact a lawyer and advise me on how to proceed. They usually start by helping me with the language in my notes that explains the situation and would protect the hospital and myself from liability. If the situation escalates, I would let the lawyers handle all of the communication.

Ok, now lets move from reality to the wildly hypothetical. Let think about a big lie, like a fake pregnancy. They say if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump out, but if you put one in warm water and turn up the heat, it will slowly get cooked. This probably isn't true, but does explain the two ways a big lie like this could proceed.

What if a patient asked their doctor to lie about their pregnancy? This is an easy one. No doctor who cared about their professional standing and their ability to practice medicine in the future would do this. No one who gave up at least 7 years of their life after college to become a doctor would willingly say yes. End of story.

However, let's say the doctor started by caring for a pregnant teenager. At first they were just asked to keep it quiet and not talk about the case with anyone. This is not unusual and is probably how it would start. At some point, however, what if the parent asked for a note from the doctor that the teenager needs to stay home from school for something other than pregnancy, such as mono? Now a line is being crossed, but it still is somewhat understandable and a doctor wanting to please their patient might do this, especially if they’ve known the family for a long time

What if the mother then asks that the name on the records be changed to her name? What if the teenager’s mother starts wearing a pillow under her shirt and claims she is pregnant? What if this mother is a prominent public figure? At this point the doctor is past the point of no return and probably feels like she has no choice but to follow through with the whole lie. Time to get a good lawyer and let them take care of the transition from doctor to defendant.

crystalwolfakacaligrl
5/3/2011 06:52:43 am

The problem is Sarah knows all the people on the Medical board, CBJ DH is/was also on it and Linda Menard I think Sarah herself at one time? They made the Mat-Su Reg. a No abortion Hosp which a judge overturned.
And Bristol prob gave birth in Dec 07 with Trig being in the NICU until 4.18.08 the "reckless Ride"?
And then CBJ either authorized a sloppy cut and past job of Sarah's medical records.
That's a whole lotta lyin" just saying....

mistah charley, ph.d.
5/3/2011 06:58:01 am

Hypothetically speaking, then, perhaps the teenager's child might have been born earlier than the public figure's announced date of giving birth? So that the "delivery date" is delivering the already-born infant to the adoptive mother during a sham admission at a regional hospital? Which would make it possible that the fertile teen might, intentionally or otherwise, have another child in quick succession?

In this hypothetical scenario we are imagining, while the physician is engaging in deception, does it actually rise to the level of a crime, or of an actionable breach of medical ethics? If so, who would have the power to investigate, bring charges, and/or discipline said hypothetical physician? And suppose no such investigation by the responsible authorities took place, for whatever reason - would anyone else have the power to do anything about it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

regina link
5/3/2011 07:07:13 am

Very good, Laura. Chipping at it bit by bit. Thank you.

Fannie Farmer (Mrs.)
5/3/2011 07:16:54 am

"FROG" SOUP

A recipe from our British friends at mumsnet - hence the grams and liters - although the "tablespoon" is still called for, I see.


Ingredients

1 tbsp olive oil
1 medium leek
1 medium stick celery
225g potato (diced)
1 liter vegetable stock
280g frozen petits pois
Some grated cheese to sprinkle on top when served

Method
1. Heat the oil in a large saucepan. Add the leek and fry over a medium heat for 5 mins until softened. Add the celery and potato and cook for a further 5 mins.
2. Pour the stock over the vegetables and bring to the boil. Cover, reduce heat and simmer for 15 mins. Add petits pois and simmer further 5 mins until potato is tender.
3. Using a hand blender or food processor, blend the soup until smooth. Reheat if necessary before serving and top with grated cheese.

phoebes in santa fe
5/3/2011 07:24:13 am

The only problem with that scenario is the timing factor. WHY, if the baby had been in the hospital since December, would he be released when Palin would have to rush back to Alaska? Why not release him on her schedule?

Punkinbugg
5/3/2011 07:31:27 am

Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion. Maybe "paperwork" fraud will take care of this one. We know they dodged the state HR lady when she asked for the BC. And you KNOW they didn't pay cash out of pocket for his delivery and follow-up care. Maybe a clever insurance investigator will catch the cover-up.

Molly
5/3/2011 07:55:24 am

I think that was the way it happened too. CBJ got suckered into it. Phoebes, we have only Palin's word for that and besides rushing back in the middle of the night meant that she wasn't really seen by anyone. It just may have suited Palin's schedule too.

FrostyAK
5/3/2011 08:06:18 am

I'm convinced that Trig was not born at Mat Su. Might even have been out of state.

The state documentation does not seem to show a change of flight plans on that day, so I can only guess that they arranged it so it LOOKED like she had to leave early, and they could do the "pop-out" at Mat Su Regional. I expect he popped out of the closed container in which he was brought into the hospital.

That would mean that only $arah and a couple of other people outside the family had to know. The BOD was in her pocket, and would never question her motives. CBJ either was a part of the scheme or got sucked into it and had no way out. Either way I have no sympathy for her.

Ivyfree
5/3/2011 10:09:05 am

I think that CBJ is being considered as far more involved in the planning than she actually might have been.

I think it's possible that Bristol might have been pregnant, officially "homeless" as her mother sent her away (to her aunt's house, but nonetheless, her mother sent her away!) and receiving care paid for under Medicaid, or possibly Native Health Services. The fact that she was a minor would account for a high level of secrecy, and for her being a privacy patient when she finally delivered, and for the baby being a "baby Doe" at birth. She wouldn't be at the hospital very long, and Baby Doe would stay as long as needed.

A pregnant teenage mom being thrown out of her parents' home isn't that unusual, sad to say. I'm sure under those circumstances she'd be eligible for her prenatal care and the baby's care to be covered.

Of course, when she moved back home, if anybody asked, the family "forgave her" and made it up... and Sarah announced her pregnancy. Maybe Bristol was overwhelmed by her physical recovery and seeing her baby in a NICU, and surrendered. Suddenly, Sarah announced she was pregnant. I'm not sure what CBJ could have done at that point- and it's likely that Sarah put it to her that this was protecting Bristol's reputation and giving the baby a home, etc., what harm being done? Why, just none at all!

CBJ may have protested, but given the outcome- a baby getting a home, a teenage girl "reconciled" to her family- she might have given in, regardless of her personal suspicions and/or distaste.

I think that the Wild Ride was planned. They would certainly know the baby would be ready to come home from the hospital soonish, if not the exact day. The baby might have been discharged from Anchorage a few days before the Texas trip and been living at the compound. Sarah claimed that Todd looked for an earlier flight, but that was looked into and there were only 3 flights, I understand, that would have connected with a flight to Anchorage, and the first one was morning and the last one was evening, arriving early in the morning. That wouldn't work. Sarah had to have claimed "labor" for the baby handover to work.

So they planned to omit security, they planned to skip the dinner and leave earlier than the others, they took public transportation rather than a private jet so that they wouldn't be dealing with cabin attendants who were loyal to some other governor and might talk. That famous phone call might have been a complete fiction or regarding another subject or just telling CBJ, "Here's the thing. I'm flying home, and you meet me at the hospital, and in the morning Bristol will carry in the baby inside a sports bag and she can bring it up the back stairs and say it's mine." CBJ might have protested, but Sarah is noted for her vindictiveness and she's perfectly capable of slashing programs to help troubled kids. The threat might have been implied, if not stated.

Sarah couldn't produce a baby without a labor story, and she couldn't "labor" out of state as that would attract news, and she couldn't have a precipitate labor at home because that would bring up the question of why 911 wasn't called and the baby should be admitted by the MD and examined, right? So she "labored" on the way home, went to the hospital, CBJ authorized the "admission" and Todd signed the admission papers. Early in the morning, Todd went to the fire escape door to swap out the sports bag he was carrying for the one Bristol and Levi had brought.. and bingo.

I don't know if Mat-Su does this, but our hospital does, and so does the hospital my daughter gave birth at. You can go in and the nurses will check you and find out if you're in labor, before you go through the hassle of being officially admitted. If CBJ brought Sarah up and said she was checking her herself... and stayed with her... well, the floor nurse would want to check in at intervals but that could be arranged by having Sarah in the bed, and every now and again CBJ went to the door and said, "Normal progression... can you bring in some cracked ice?" and the floor nurse would see Sarah in bed, panting. A little weird, maybe, that the doctor would be there the whole time, but not too crazy.

The induction story may have been one of Sarah's elaborate lies to begin with.You really don't need a backup to deliver a baby: you need a pregnant woman and a catcher. Most of the time you can stand at the foot of the bed with a bucket to keep the kid from hitting the floor, and things will be fine. So... at the end, things happened fast and the doctor caught the baby! And that's what people were told! and then they found out the baby had Down syndrome!

Only Sarah never can tell a simple lie, she has to dress it up. So suddenly the baby was "induced." Just like the leaking fluid story. It makes no sense to claim leaking fluid; we've all said that. We all know that fluid can trickle or it can gush and nobody would risk that while giving a public speech or aboar

DebinOH
5/3/2011 10:49:56 am

Good job Laura. Another interesting thing to add to the pot. Personally I could see a doctor lying for a teenager. There is no doubt that Sarah could have put CBJ in this predicament.

Even if it wasn't that, Sarah lies so much how would CBJ even be able to keep track of it. Perhaps that is why she had to have the lawyer with her.



Ennealogic link
5/3/2011 10:54:54 am

If I had to guess:

The announced birth date was planned. It could not be too close to the pregnancy announcement, yet, it would grow increasingly difficult to mime a pregnancy as time went on. Therefore, on Lou Sarah's calendar, having the "birth" shortly following this most important energy convention made the most sense.

So, how to do that? Well, she could have waited until returning home but that risked attracting notice from locals. Instead, after dismissing her usual security guard in favor of Todd for the Texas trip, why not just fake the delivery promptly after returning from Texas? Nobody else needed to be involved at that point, especially if the laboring mother simply failed to report in or get checked out by anyone along the way.

A story needed to be hastily constructed, which inadvertently involved daddy Chuck and the water breaking. Lou Sarah couldn't (or didn't have the presence of mind to) deny she'd said that to her dear Dad, so it became part of the legend. If you listen to her trying to explain it to the reporter, you can't help but notice her faking all the way through the explanation. She doubled down with the inducement part, perhaps realizing that in her case, risking serious infection, inducing a premature delivery would sort of make sense.

If we could ascertain where she got the black lab puppy, err, the Down syndrome child, the case would be complete. I suspect only CBJ and Lou Sarah know for sure.

Ivyfree
5/3/2011 11:08:48 am

Sorry, too long a comment:
Nobody would risk a fluid gush aboard a plane. All of that got added later: instead of the sensible (for her) story of a backache on the flight, related to the airline seats, and getting checked to make sure... she comes up with the Wild Ride story, the induction story, the Willow discovers the Down syndrome story. And CBJ is stuck with it.

I'd really like to see the charting on Sarah done for that night.

Ottoline
5/3/2011 12:15:32 pm

I can imagine a continuum, ranging from CBJ was heavily involved to CBJ was hardly involved all. Both ends of that range can support a credible story, and so can all the variations in between.

I like the scenario presented by the post, but it left out one thing: CBJ's specialty. Another continuum of possibilities: SP's family could have been seeing CBJ because of that specialty, or she could have been their "family MD" entirely without the specialty entering into it.

We will probably never know. But I am satisfied that any point in both continuums could make a plausible story (given the other facts we know, some of which might be true, and others might be lies -- hard to tell).

What's easy to see is that SP was not pregnant in those flat-profile photos just weeks and days before Trig's alleged birth. So that's a piece of bedrock. Without that certainty, based on those photos, I would keep wondering whether the wild ride might have happened to a woman with zero common sense. Or maybe oly the leaking fluid was a lie, the rest was true? But no.

There is no evidence that it was a wild ride, or even a ride in a hurry, or even an earlier-than-planned ride -- except for SP's account afterward. And we can't rely on SP's version of events to be true, we know that.

I do not recall CBJ being sighted at the hospital at the time of Trig's "birth," except per SP's account. CBJ might have been there, making herself visible; she might have popped in for a minute; or she might have been "just around the corner" all the time.

Like today's very good post, I see CBJ getting sucked peripherally into this mess, and then comes the (surely forged) letter on the eve of the election. So now CBJ has the choice of calling a press conference and outing her pal Sarah and ruining her own and SP's reputations, or at the very least being involved in a swirl of unwelcome media attention. Or: CBJ can just keep quiet, letting things develop in their own ways, letting someone else bring down SP, if that is even ever going to happen.

There is so much we do't know, and don't eed to know. We do know SP was not pregnant, ad that she HOAXED A NATION. That's really all we need to know.

Bobcat Logic
5/3/2011 12:53:48 pm

CBJ was (allegedly) part of Palin's Dominionist church, which makes her a religious fanatic who wanted to take over the government and impose Old Testament Biblical Law (much like Sharia Law).

This is all the motivation that a fanatic would need: "A Mission From God."

If I were CBJ, I wouldn't just get a lawyer, I'd be seriously considering the Witness Protection Program, just like the owner of the Palin-and-Joe Miller-associated gun shop, "The Drop Zone."

According to Gryphen at the Immoral Minority blog, this man will soon be giving a press conference.

And that is just one of many big shoes waiting to drop.

physicsmom
5/3/2011 02:46:15 pm

Here's the scenario I think is most likely:

Having been on the board, Sarah arranged for the "use" of a room on April 18. She was never actually admitted to the hospital. All the rest of the staff knew was that a VIP was in room X.

Baby Trig was delivered to the hospital by someone - Todd probably, but could be an adoption agency. Palin announced she had delivered the baby.

The news folks come and take pictures of Sally and Creepy Chuck in another room or the hallway. The only people actually in the room with Sarah are Todd, the adoption people and maybe her parents. The kids all wait outside. (It's possible she actually climbed into the bed and received visitors, but doesn't really have to).She never saw a delivery room, nursery or anything. They all leave later that day or early the next with glowing reports of how great Mat-Su is, but no one of import ever saw them.

CBJ's problem comes in when writing the letter for the campaign. She didn't deliver the baby, never conducted any prenatal checks, but Sarah has put out the story that she had been pregnant. Knowing that there is no insurance fraud (no bills) and no actual medical records which have been falsified, can she lie in the letter? Seems like there's no criminal consequences. Exposure would damage her reputation terribly, but no legal ramifications seem to be attached. So, either she did falsify the letter, or someone else wrote it under her name and she chose not to cause her friend trouble by disputing it.

The actual birth and bills surrounding that are completely confidential, whoever the birth mom is and CBJ may not have had anything to do with it at all.

My fifty-cents.

Ol' Doc Ument
5/3/2011 04:34:58 pm

Laura,

Sorry if this has already been covered and I've missed it, but ...

Have you asked these doctors to read and comment on CBJ's written statement re: Trig's birth ?

It'd be interesting to hear their opinions about THAT piece of this puzzle ...

Thank you for continuing to seek the truth about all this.

Jeanabella
5/3/2011 11:12:18 pm

Our third son was a "preemie" about 9 weeks early. The water broke and I was rushed to hospital with all services for a premature birth. The date was Feb. 2, 1975 and the baby came home 3 months later. His weight at birth was 3 1/2 lbs and could not go home till 5 lbs.
If Trig was really premature on April 18th, there is no way he weighed as much as he did and no way he went home so soon, never mind to work with simple sarah.

mistah charley, ph.d. link
5/4/2011 01:41:39 am

I was thinking about bringing this discussion to CBJ's attention somehow. In the process of looking for an email or snailmail address I came across handouts for some of the presentations she does, and I felt the full force of the fact that her participation in Babygate is a very, very small part of all the things she's done in her medical career. What if I had to walk a mile wearing her stethoscope?

On second thought, I've decided to leave CBJ alone. Others have previously called on her to step forward to reveal what she knows, and she hasn't. She has apparently decided that keeping quiet is her best option for now, and she's probably right. As granny said, "Let sleeping dogs lie." If it begins to look like Palin is within striking distance of becoming our Alaskan-American Evita, the dog's slumber will be disturbed. At that point, CBJ may have a decision to make -- to remain silent, or reveal the truth, or lie again (perhaps in perceived self-defense, perhaps in an attempt to do God's will by helping Sarah become President of our Christian nation, if CBJ shares that belief which some have expressed).

May the Creative Forces of the Universe stand beside us, and guide us, through the Night with the Light from Above (metaphorically speaking).

Laura Novak link
5/4/2011 05:43:24 am

Everyone makes such great points that I won't address anyone by name here lest I leave someone out.

One thing to know that this doctor infers and I know from experience is that sometimes when it's time to discharge the infant, they discharge the infant! it's time to go. no "dithering." they pack 'em up and tell you that it's today.

Long before following any of this closely, I always thought that her ever present phone on the podium beeped a text that said the baby was going home. That's still true.

The one thing that still bugs me (well, there are obviously many) is WHY deliver at 35 weeks if you don't have to. Anyone recall what Doctor #1 said at the top of his first post: the days of people dictating when they have the baby at their convenience are ending. I found it fascinating that he led with that thought.

Perhaps she told CBJ: I'm coming home. Deliver this baby. I've got another speech in 2 weeks.

At any rate, many of you have pointed out that statement to the press and country is not actually illegal. Immoral, unethical, yes, but no fraud has been committed.

But who the heck would put their own reputation on the line like that?

I do want the doctors to look at the letter. Got a great conversation/post ready from Brad Scharlott and that will have to go first. But yes, I want a doctor to weigh in on the letter.

Many thanks everyone. Oh, and for what it's worth: that photo of my son at 4 months: I wouldn't have left him to fly or bus around with a maverick for all the money in the world. Nothing and no one was more important to me than his well being. But of course, I'm not very mavericky in that regard, am I now?

V
5/4/2011 05:47:56 am

Why April 18? Well, if this was done, it was done with some planning. A time when the baby would be available (and I think Trig was already in the Palin home). And also SP wanted to give her speech. But not just that. A time when the right people would be available at MatSu - and not the wrong people. Late at night arrival, when few would see. Early morning birth, when no one is around. Because it's very hard to prove a negative.

And I like the analysis of CBJ and how she was suckered in.

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