Blog - Laura Novak

Eye of the Needle - Guest Post by Viola-Alex

9/28/2011

Writer and frequent commenter, Viola-Alex, penned this essay prior to the new Joe McGinniss Rogue-ography being released. It is interesting to read it again now and see even more clearly how we each could "spot" Palin in our own way. I was not surprised to read in Joe's book about the absolute absence of any religion in the Palin home - both structured Christianity and from-the-heart-humanism.

In April Franklin Graham told ABC News' Christiane Amanpour that Sarah Palin doesn’t like politics and wouldn’t run for President, although she does enjoy “speaking on the issues.” Palin was scheduled for a trip to the Sudan with Graham’s Christian aid organization Samaritan’s Purse but cancelled at the last minute.

Last year Phyllis Schlafly, the famous anti-feminist and founding member of the Council for National Policy and a woman so conservative she loathes the presidencies of both Bushes, was asked if she thought this country would ever elect a woman president.   She answered that a governorship might be the best route and that Sarah Palin “is the total package. She's got a cute husband. She's got a lot of kids." But when asked if she thought Palin was ready to be President, Schlafly said unequivocally, “I don’t think so.”

In 2009 it was Schlafly who had advised Mrs. Total Package ex-Governor Palin to follow Ronald Reagan’s example after his governorship: lay low, build skills, and concentrate on select speaking engagements. We all know how that turned out.

Born-again Christians fill my address book. I actually was one for about 37 minutes.   In fact, getting saved was de rigueur for all the oil rich in my East Texas hometown.   Before the 1960’s, religion was for poor people and Catholics. The Born-Again Movement, which caught fire in California, changed all that.

In 1966 my mother took me to see Billy Graham--in London where we stayed at a 5-star hotel and alternated nights at the Crusade with theatre and shopping. (The most entertaining part of the Crusade was when Vietnam Protesters snuck in a banner in pieces and sewed it together during Billy’s sermon.) These days my entire hometown is born-again, as is a lot of Texas. My best friend from high school, a Jewish man who’s a partner in James Baker’s law firm, sends his daughter to a Baptist private school.

For me, nothing about Sarah Palin’s supposed Christianity is familiar. I was surprised when Bristol dropped this bombshell in an interview with Christianity Today about the Palin family’s churchgoing. “You know, we do on and off in Alaska but our schedule is so hectic right now that we haven't really been able to sit down at a church consistently every Sunday,” said Bristol.

Sit down at a church? Was that poor child confusing the House of God with Burger King?

The born-again Christians I know belong to churches. They tithe. Hell, they shed their diamonds for missionary work in Africa so they can post the photos on their Facebook pages. They even send their children to Ivy League schools. Phyllis Schlafly has a law degree from Washington University, a Master’s in Political Science from Harvard--and has called the Tea Party “futile.”

For these people, appearance matters. Going to church was the least Palin could have done to make them think she was just like them.   Instead, she wore a giant Crucified Jesus rhinestone rodeo belt with her low-rise jeans and called it good.

The born-again power elite probably aren’t keen to push a frowsy fishwife (ie Not One of Christ’s finest) through the Eye of The Needle. That’s why Palin is down to angry folks in lawn chairs. Bud Paxson and his cohort may have tapped her for greatness once upon a time --and may have even engineered her sudden rise --but I’ll bet my red-letter King James Bible that Palin’s bid for Queen Esther is finished.

Or maybe not.

What about the Born-Again Under-Class who finds Palin’s messy volatility a perfect match for minor Old Testament prophecy?

According to Mudflats, a former classmate of Palin’s has described how the Assemblies of God kids ruled Wasilla High School. Call me a snob, but that fact alone would be enough to skew a girl’s world view, to grow up believing that talking in tongues and having one’s demons excised by an African voodoo priest are behaviors of a social elite. In the lower 48, Pentecostals are not exactly members of the ruling class. (Pentecostalism is booming in third world countries.The largest single Pentecostal church in the world is the Yoido Full Gospel Church in South Korea.)

Which brings us to what may be the real issue that fuels Tea Party mob rage and vaunteth up Sarah Louise Palin.

It damn sure isn’t religion.

It’s Class.

V ictoria link

9/28/2011 02:13:37 am

Viola-Alex - thanks for this. I do wonder what has happened to the real Christians, who think it is good to share, that it is wrong to kill innocent men, who think that love is the best four-letter word.

And I'd appreciate it if you could write more about your last two words. Are you referring to gentility or class warfare?

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9/16/2012 03:43:07 pm

Some of the information in your article is which I have not aware of. I like the article. It is informative. Looking forward to read many more such informative articles and blog posts.

Viola-Alex

9/28/2011 02:36:46 am

@ to all - please keep up your conversations O/T or On/T. Laura was kind to post this after so much water under the bridge.

@Victoria. Both. Class in the U.S. is more complex than it is in, say, the UK or Mexico or really any place else.

But that's a whole nother topic.

Tom link

9/28/2011 02:41:13 am

Viola--

Very good. Thank you. The six sisters of mine still alive practice Catholicism like it was the 1950s. And they are to a large degree one issue voters, ie.e, abortion. What they don't do is proselytize.

The rapid growth of pentacostal churches and fundamentalists bewilders me. Why can't people just have the balls to concede that we live, we die, and that's that. But in the meantime why not be kind and compassionate.

Regarding DFW, I understand what you mean about his prose. There's an underlying sense of desperation yet he seems to want to advise us that it isn't easy, just hold on. That commencement speech is thematically similar to his prose, you're right. I suggest that you read his essays in 'Consider the Lobster' and 'A Supposedly Fun Thing...'. The desperation is there. It's just a guy, a friendly, funny, really smart guy sharing his observations. His talent for description in these essays is spellbinding to me.

"When Michael T. Joyce of Los Angeles serves, when he tosses the ball and his face rises to track it, it looks like he’s smiling, but he’s not really smiling -- his face’s circumoral muscles are straining with the rest of his body to reach the ball at the top of the toss’s rise. He wants to hit it fully extended and slightly out in front of him -- he wants to be able to hit emphatically down on the ball, to generate enough pace to avoid an ambitious return from his opponent...
The tossed ball rises and seems for a second to hang, waiting, cooperating, as balls always seem to do for great players."

Tom link

9/28/2011 02:42:51 am

Sorry. Read Viola's O/T post after my submission.

Will do.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/28/2011 02:44:39 am

Viola-Alex - Hope you don't mind if I bring your last comment over here ..... because I think it's important and shouldn't be consigned to oblivion:

@Viola-Alex
"Either you want Palin brought down by any means that works. Or you want Palin brought down as you deem appropriate.

There are only two choices. "

To those doing the hard work work around here - research, sleuthing, etc. - it must seems like some of us aren't pulling our weight when we go off to read and comment on MeAgains' latest.

Well, I'm a realist and I know exactly what my personal chances of bringing Palin down are. It sure as hell isn't going to be anything I've written on a blog!

Here's my belief: The bitch will be brought to her knees by someone who finds the guts to scream out, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore" and then proceeds to spill all the beans.

MA is the closest to that person that we've ever had and I lose nothing by reading and encouraging her to continue.

Viola-Alex

9/28/2011 02:52:51 am

@Tom and all - I meant discuss anything here you want. Please.

Karen

9/28/2011 02:55:28 am

I'd like her brought down like a big Grand Slam breakfast with all the extras, sausage AND ham, toast AND pancakes, an omelet and hashbrowns, coffee AND orange juice. All of it, any of it. The whole kit and kaboodle. Babygate and hookergate, DWTS grandbaby-gate, Dairygate, Troopergate, Special K, child abuse and neglect charges, libel, money-laundering and a nice charge of Treason on the side.

I can't say I have contributed much to the quest but I sure as hell am gonna celebrate!

Dealio

9/28/2011 03:01:37 am

It is a lie that the religious kids ran Wasilla High then. The most popular kids who knew and were friends with everyone weren't religious.

And Sarah wasn't popular until senior year.

This is all from the organizer of their reunions who I've spoken to many times.

Jennifer D

9/28/2011 03:05:19 am

There are millions of real, honest, and kind Christians living today. Just because they're not loud mouths doesn't mean they don't exist.

You've got to stop stereotyping people based on a few ostentacious people. Look at all the Christian year round food banks, the charities, the overall good will.

Yes there are non-religion based charities, but there are tons of genuine religious-based ones as well.

Jennifer D

9/28/2011 03:08:18 am

DWTS grandbaby-gate - continuing with this bad lie is making you look insane

Dairygate- I think it's a matter of mismanagement than illegal dealings

Special K - HUH?

child abuse and neglect charges - double huh???

Karen

9/28/2011 03:10:48 am

@Jennifer or Jilly or April or whatever you call yourself on this particular thread, I was not speaking to you. Please come back when you get caught up on reality.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/28/2011 03:22:21 am

@Karen - Me too, Karen, me too. I may be a party of one in my true-blue neighborhood but I'll be dancing in the street.

Now that I've got yesterday's post out of my system, let me say, V-A that I think you pegged it.

People keep mixing up old-fashioned religion with the cultism that passes for religion in the GOP. Sarah not going to church regularly does not mean she wouldn't have (notice past tense :-) have brought her god-awful beliefs into her politics. Just one more thing the stupid MSM misses.

And you toss us zinger at the very end: class. Because it is her lack of any true class that her cult identifies with. She's just like them which means any one of "them" could be president.

Her encouraging the fools has put this country on a very dangerous path. She may soon be 'outa here' but I think there will be hell to pay with the legacy she will leave in her wake (tsunami?).

Tom link

9/28/2011 03:28:07 am

Viola, I, too, wish you'd expand on "It's Class." Not sure what you meant.

curiouser

9/28/2011 03:28:57 am

Thank you, V-A. If nothing else, Sarah Palin's national political presence has brought attention to the dominionists. The corporate media gave her a pass but is finally starting to get up to speed and make it an issue.

I found an interview that was taped last year that's a great primer on the NAR and dominionism.

Some key points:
*The new apostolic age began in 2001.
*The NAR has prophets and apostles who are the same or superior to those of the 1st century. It follows that their teachings replace biblical teaching, although they say there's no contradiction (or as Sarah said last night on Greta, 'conderdictoring').
*All Christians need to submit to them.
*Prophecies are conditional and come with disclaimers so they can't be tested. The responsibility rests with the followers who either pray successfully or fail.

Something that's not mentioned that I'll add because I think it may be the most critical of all:
*They teach that some should use STEALTH evangelism. When a Joy Behar says something like, 'Well, Palin (or so-and-so) doesn't talk about the separation of church and state', we've got to be ready to reply 'exactly'. This is one group where alliances do matter.

http://vftb.net/?tag=dr-james-dobson

9/28/2011 03:59:38 am

From The Rogue: "Isn't it strange that the supporters of someone who so brassily proclaims her devotion to Jesus are so prone to expressions of hatred and violent threats, rather than tolerance and respect?"

Religion for these people is just a hook to hang their cloak of hatred upon.

curiouser

9/28/2011 04:08:00 am

On the key points about the NAR, I forgot all about satan and demons. Hmmm...that doesn't sound like an accident.

*Leaders of nations rule by power and authority given to them by Satan. The NAR seeks to depose them and rule by god's authority.

They seem to have forgotten all about 'Love' and 'knowing the tree by its fruit'. Whether it's Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, Bachmann...the fruit's looking pretty darn toxic.

Prophecies came out of the NAR in 2008 that McCain/Palin would win and that Sarah would be president. I think this explains much of her fan-base and their unquestioning (at least until recently) determination. The problem for Sarah and her followers is that leading NAR prophets and apostles have abandoned Sarah for Rick Perry. It's not so easy for followers with an emotional and financial investment to switch allegiance as easily.

jeff

9/28/2011 04:45:39 am

@V-A,

You are such a great writer. We need more like this from you.

jeff

FrostyAK

9/28/2011 05:42:44 am

Thanks for bringing born agains, evangelicals, and dominionists into the discussion. IMO, it is THE most important piece of the $P puzzle.

There is a huge difference between what we see today as "religious", and true spirituality. Religilists talk the talk, truly spiritual people walk the walk by doing good for all of God's creations. People who adhere to any of the world's religions can be spiritual, but are not necessarily so. People who adhere to no organized religion can be spiritual.

Dominionists talk the talk, they are trained to do so from a young age. They are neither religious nor spiritual. Read all about them on the web - start with prayer warriors and Mary Glazier.

DebinOH

9/28/2011 06:04:05 am

Good read......

I have said over & over that I just cannot figure out why evangelicals find her appealing. Most don't believe a woman can even have a position in church & some don't even think women should work. They talk about "fruits" all the time but I sure as hell don't see ANY fruits.

She is mean, vindictive and crazy. Any democrat that was like her or her family would have been crucified after a month. It is one of the most puzzling things I have ever seen except that there were a LOT of people who just heard the word christian and they never looked further. My kids & I used to say all we needed to do was write a book and slap the word christian on it and we would make a fortune from the people around us.

I could & may some day write a book about my church experiences. I seriously could write a thousand page book. I kid you not! It gives me the creeps just thinking about it.

Hope I am not offending anyone. If you love church and are a believer then that is great. Whatever gets you through the day is okay UNTIL you start preaching & trying to save me;)

Ottoline

9/28/2011 06:06:05 am

While class in America is a fascinating topic, the class I am most interested in re SP is the LYING class.

I've had brushes with this class before, as in "all politicians lie." I was dismayed with both Clintons re this, and tried to figure it out re their early financial dealings; the coercing of Bill's side-women to not talk; the death of Vince Foster; and Hillary's memorable error re snipers in Kosovo. But I forgive them both, now, because Hillary's doing wonderfully well in a job where lying is an asset, and Bill seems to be supporting our president (see his last Meet the Press), and of course they are both so intelligent and able.

But SP lies about everything. So to pick this one oh-so-symbolic lie has seemed important. SP intended her lie to symbolize family values, but instead it is the perfect symbol for bankrupt family values, lying, hoaxing, covering up, and collusion/enabling/support by nationally important others.

The lying class. It would be nice if we could do some effective class warfare on this particular class. Perhaps we are, with McG's book, Dunn's book and great review, the "Fred" book (assuming it will be any good), the photos, and other efforts.

Laura Novak link

9/28/2011 06:20:50 am

Well said, Frosty, and Deb. We just happen to work at the Men's Shelter through a church. And I just happened to find a church that has the right elements for me. It is a group of very civic and socially minded humans who put their actions where their thoughts are.

I will forever be amazed, amused and dismayed at folks who wrap themselves in the banner of Christ and believe His forgiveness is what allows them to lie, cheat, steal or harm others. So you're right, Frosty, real humanism exists outside of buildings and boundaries. But it is the structure of a religious house and the structure of the "prayer warriors" who give/gave SP her fuel to further her ambition. It appears to have little or nada to do with feeding the homeless, donating to schools, building houses in the 3rd world. And I agree Deb: why do her followers not see this? Do they not wonder what she's done for someone today?

Oh that's right: photo op in Haiti. Everyone in front of the camera, quick!

curiouser

9/28/2011 06:31:36 am

Otto - Lying politicians, either about themselves or about legislation, can kill democracy. I'd like to see 'truth in advertising' applied to politicians. Just like there's no free market capitalism without informed buyers, there's no democracy without informed voters. It would be difficult to enforce for little things but it would give us the ability to deal with pregnancy hoaxes, fake military records, fake college degrees, and other big lies. Okay...this may not stop a Sarah Palin who's nuts enough to believe she can fool everyone; but, at least, there'd be a means to charge her with fraud and to bring charges against the McCain campaign for not disclosing her mental condition.

Playing Devil's Advocate against myself: If there were laws against political fraud, would Wallace and Schmidt have admitted the lack of vetting and later discovery of incompetence?

I'd also like congressional ethics laws to include outright lies about pending or passed legislation as ethics violations. Sexual or financial misconduct is not okay but deceiving the public is. We're seriously messed up.

Viola-Alex

9/28/2011 06:42:51 am

Thank you, Laura, for giving me a voice.

My primary motive for writing it was my impatience was the interchangeability of the labels -- religious, fundie, born again, dominionist, Christian -- which indicated to me two things. 1. Some intellectuals (and others) don'tknow the difference and lump them all together. 2. That Palin had played as many of these groups as she could.

I know many of you fear the dominionists. I don't. They're outsider crackpots the way Jim Jones and the Waco compound was.

I believe that all the mainstream religious bases caught on early that Palin was a fraud. Her anger is that they dumped her. Just my opinion.

The lead sentence of the essay is telling. Franklin Graham was interviewed by Amanpour, who was a classmate of JFK JR at Brown. Graham can hobnob with whoever he needs to to do his good works. I may disagree with all he is and stands for, but he is a public figure who can give interviews.

That he said Palin wouldn't run back in April stunned me. I think he knew.

Again, Palin is a marginalized freak who causes trouble and clogs the system.

I'm still rooting for the fastest takedown.

PS. Nobody I've ever heard of wears a Jesusy sweatshirt while riding a mechanical bull in a Los Angeles (maybe gay) bar. That's just some BAD metaphor mixing.

Anonfornow

9/28/2011 06:55:43 am

@DebinOH, I had a good (and at the time quite wild) friend in college who married an evangelical preacher. They now run a church, a fundie college and a publishing house specializing in "Christian" books and home schooling material. He's a very well-known figure in his own milieu. The husband has a blog that I read around the time of the election, and his take on Sarah was very interesting.

He initially struggled with the nomination of Sarah, since it went against everything they taught about a woman's place being in the home, raising children, and obeying her husband. But "God" finally helped him to see that Sarah was the best chance they had to overturn "Roe." He was convinced God would make the Republicans win and then "take" McCain so that Sarah would be president.

He was so certain of this that when Obama won he went into a deep and very troubled depression, but finally righted himself with the conviction that he simply misunderstood God.

His blog alternately infuriated me and gave me the creeps, so I haven't been back and have no idea how he feels about Sarah now.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/28/2011 06:58:43 am

@Viola-Alex - Wish I could totally agree with you re: the Dominionists.

They alone are probably toothless but lump them in with other like-mindeds, i.e. miltia wackos and I see trouble. The GOP lifted the rock and gave these idiots a voice (which I hope comes back to firmly bite them in the ass) - do you think they can get the genie back in the bottle?

curiouser

9/28/2011 07:02:50 am

V-A - You raise such an important point about not lumping all Christians or all evangelicals together--especially important when it comes to interacting with individuals. The problem with the dominionists is that they're infiltrating mainstream evangelical churches. Listen to the audio I listed earlier if you get a chance...and want to, of course.

There's also a growing effort to rewrite history so that the Bible is the foundation for our Constitution and laws. My mother is a member of an evangelical church...not charismatic or affiliated with the NAR. It would consider NAR teachings as apostacy but, still, they are heavily into teaching political action to bring the U.S. back to being a Christian nation and would be rightly classified as dominionist. I don't think the members understand the implications. They've been taught a new version of American history and been brainwashed to believe what they learned in school was deception.

Mary

9/28/2011 07:06:03 am

Hi Sarah and Bristol.

Jesus loves you.

Everyone else thinks you're assholes.

curiouser

9/28/2011 07:21:33 am

Mary - Since I'm not Jesus, I'd be in the 'everyone else' category and you're not speaking for me. I can disagree with Palin and still respect her humanity. Just for the record.

Ivyfree

9/28/2011 07:27:27 am

I've felt for some time that if a person has a religious conversion experience, they should take a vow of silence for at least a year.

Re: Bristol's comment about "sitting down in a church." It sounds to me like somebody gave her a canned answer to the question, "How much do you go to church?" because it's interesting that they don't, and in fact, it sounds like they never really have. "Just tell them that life has been so busy that we haven't had a chance to attend regularly, Bristol" is what it sounds like to me, and Bristol being dense as a post, she made it sound worse than it is.

After all, if you go stay in a hotel, they all have those little booklets that list conveniences, including local churches with service time. It's not like it's impossible to go to a church that you don't usually attend, if you're traveling or something.

But it reminds me of when my son moved to North Carolina, and I suggested he work out an answer to the question, "Where do you go to church?" (My son appears to have had a conversion experience and become a devout golfer.) He had no clue, so again, I suggested, "We haven't found a church home yet." He objected on the grounds that they had no intention of finding a church home anyway, to which I responded, "Yet. Or ever. Whatever."

He and his wife have reported that it is an answer they have used. There's no point in telling the questioner that they wouldn't go to a church unless somebody they knew was being buried or married there.

FrostyAK

9/28/2011 07:32:39 am

@V-A - I believe that trying to marginalize Dominionists is the absolute wrong way to go. They are the ELEPHANT in the political room.

Yes, they are religious extremists. But so are Muslim extremists. And look what the latter have done to the world we live in.

Franklin Graham is an extremist, who covers his extremism with the outward show (photo ops) of good deeds done with other people's money. But in order to take advantage of his largesse, one must first submit to proselytizing. The fact that his assets near Port Alsworth AK are designated as the retreat for his 'followers' when Armegeddon comes is not well known.

False idols, false prophets. I thought that only Christ and God were to have disciples/followers? But these religious nutcases, with their Xtian megachurches have cult FOLLOWERS. The top hierarchy of the Dominionists have cult followers. Many ordinary people don't even realize what they are doing in following such false prophets.

Then we have C Street in DC. For all the good Xtian electeds to go for their marching orders. The mega corporations are taking advantage of the average good church going Christians via their 'think tanks' which have in turn infiltrated the higher echelons of religion.

I don't fear Dominionism. I don't have that much time left. But it, and other extreme 'religious' beliefs are a real threat to coming generations. "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."

I have often wondered what Christ would think about all of the horrible things that have been done in his and his Father's name.

Viola-Alex

9/28/2011 07:41:53 am

@anonfornow - check back when you dare. how he feels now might be an interesting gauge.

@curiouser and Sharon Too: good points. you may be right about the danger. I'm thinking there has never been a major religious movement in the US headed by a woman. Too whacko.

@FrostyAK - no indeed, these folk are not spiritual. it's all about winning and revenge.

@Tom - Class is far too complicated for a few words. In this country, real power comes from a mixture of education, wealth, connections, manners, understanding protocals. Think about Clinton and Hillary from working class families. Their tickets out? Yale, Wellesley. I think Joe McG had never faced anything quite like Palin. Remember the pie he took to her front door? He'd known Alaskans, but not the newer churched-up, consumerist, willfully ignorant brand.
@mary - actually, you made me laugh. that's why I like Jesus. He is able to love everyone.

@Ivyfree - loved your answer about "church home." I lived in NC for 3 years. My answer? "I'm Episcopalian." I even use that in CA. It usually leaves the dogooder speechless.

Viola-Alex

9/28/2011 07:47:00 am

@Frosty - I will definitely pay attention. AND I hope you have years and years left with us.

DebinOH

9/28/2011 08:10:19 am

"My primary motive for writing it was my impatience was the interchangeability of the labels -- religious, fundie, born again, dominionist, Christian -- which indicated to me two things. 1. Some intellectuals (and others) don'tknow the difference and lump them all together. 2. That Palin had played as many of these groups as she could."

I think you do have a point about the labels. I think the reason for that is that the evangelical (born again) crowd is the loudest at the moment. They have bookstores with tons of books, tons of music, etc. Look at homeschooling - it is a pretty large movement as well. Look at all the religious channels on TV - almost all evangelical. People see this all the time they don't see what Laura's church is like.

The thing that makes me maddest though is why "normal" churches aren't calling out all these people/churches. Specially when blaming gays, etc., for every problem we have. It makes me sick that these people get all the attention. It makes me ill that Dr. Dobson from Focus on the Family was on Bush's speed dial, etc.

When I finally was just sick at heart of it all I pretty much came to the conclusion that most of these big names & pastors are more about the money & do not believe in god. If they believed in god they would never be doing the crap they do.

DebinOH

9/28/2011 08:14:26 am

Oops, I would like to add that it is not all about money. Some of it is power & fame. I say that because many of the pastors/youth pastors I knew were all trying to be the next Rick Warren. They would shop videos of themselves at youth group & at church in the hopes that they would be seen so they could climb the ladder. It was disgusting.

Conscious at last!

9/28/2011 08:31:16 am

O/T I think we missed this comment from Me Again-- (at least I didn't see it here on Laura's blog)

I really wish I knew about the baby we've come to know as "Ruffles". Because I have only been paying closer attention to Sarah for a little over two years, I'm only just reading a lot of the blogs, theories, and so on regarding Trig.

The more I learn, and the more I think about that tiny, fragile looking child...the more I get a pit in my stomach and an ominous feeling in my heart.

After staring at photos until my eyes crossed...I feel as close to "I'd bet my life" as POSSIBLE...that the infant in the "Triggybear" photos is NOT the robust, bright-eyed baby which appeared immediately after the VP announcement/on the campaign trail.

What "gets me"...is the photo of the Heaths at MSRMC. THAT baby is obviously not the tiny sickly baby.

So on 4/18/08 there's what can only be described as a fat healthy looking rosy cheeked baby.

In early May, there is a baby who looks emaciated, sallow, and definitely NOT like he could have looked like a ten pounder a week earlier. AND he has a very pronounced defect on his ears.

By three months later, the chubby, sparkly eyed baby is back. If there had been one baby, then another...I'd think they switched out a sick looking baby for a healthy looking one. But because we have healthy baby FIRST, it's so confusing. Nothing I have seen indicates anything specific, only "things" that need to be "dealt with".

I really feel CBJ must be the eventual wellspring of truth, if there's anyone who ever tells the truth willingly. I don't think Sarah is going to come clean...and I can only hope that CBJ has an attack of conscience and realizes the "Sarah walked the walk" myth is the only thing propping up her power.

However, given that I myself am in the position of not being able to tell everything I know, CBJ may be in a situation ten times more complex.

(see next comment)

7:58 PM

Anonymous said...

I really wish I knew. I would love to say "Ruffles is happy and healthy and hitting all his milestones." But I simply do not know.

I think the part which needs the most stringent focus right now is Bristol's pregnancy with Tripp. Given that his birth happening by a certain time is what "held up" Sarah's story, I just can't see how they WOULDN'T provide evidence of the date the birth occurred...unless of course, as with Trig(s), they simply don't HAVE the evidence with the right dates.

Really sorry I don't have more to add. It's impossible to believe that nobody who CAN talk about it, DOES talk about it.

-MeAgain

8:00 PM

nancydrewed link

9/28/2011 08:39:29 am

Andrew Sullivan just linked to Geoffrey Dunn's rebuke to Janet Maslin and her Times review. :-))

Excellent.

nancydrewed link

9/28/2011 08:50:15 am

If you want to retweet Sullivan's link, the feed appears to be out of sync. You have to move to "The Golden Age of Short Books" post in order to get the correct shortened link message. FYI

I am seeing bright lights at the end of the tunnel.

MSM being chastened -- now that's a sight.

Perplexed

9/28/2011 08:57:47 am

@Viola-Alex: Thanks for your thought-provoking, entertaining post.

On the question of whether there has ever been a major religious movement in the US headed by a woman--do you consider Christian Science, founded and led for many years by Mary Baker Eddy, too marginal to be considered "major"? Aimee Semple McPherson also comes to mind, although her movement was short-lived.

Dis Gusted

9/28/2011 08:59:28 am

no religion nor church necessary for the whore that wears a giant rhinestone crosses on her belt. None for the underage mini- me accosting customers ina bar with her 'empowered' Jesus sweatshirt either.

These two backwoods 'girls' are perfect examples of fake christians that believe they are superior to the anyone in the lower '48'. Of course, they lord it over everyone - nothing's changed in the past two decades.

9/28/2011 09:03:08 am

Deb, being perplexed and frustrated with your fellow christians and not wanting to call them out certainly gives one appreciation for how the true followers of Mohammed must feel.

Excellent piece, V-A.

Sullivan also posted a most excellent piece about Palin's Fox appearance last night, and her references to seeking the title ( not the office.). That's all she wants-the title, the prestige, the adulation. Not the non-stop work.

Re the christianists & the militia... They have been intertwined as one for decades. Read the story of Gordon Kahl, a militant & domestic terrorist who killed a bunch of US Marshalls & policemen in N. Dakota in the 70s or early 80s. He & his supporters were also Christian fundamentalists.

nancydrewed link

9/28/2011 09:09:32 am

@Viola-Alex -- I live in a medium-sized city which has old traditional Catholic neighborhoods and many people of Scandinavian origin. So the older neighborhoods have a rooted stable feel to them. The newer suburban sprawl areas are where we are seeing a rapid growth of the churches you write about. Lots of lots of Mormon converts as well.

FrostyAK

9/28/2011 09:13:42 am

Once again MA tells us what we already know... only time will tell if we have a credible witness to the NOW of $P. In the meantime, I read what is said, and wait for more - the information forwarded to Gryph.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/28/2011 09:18:06 am

@nancydrewed - I commented at both Dunn's article and Phil Mungers' website that Dunn's piece - slightly edited for length - would make a terrific OP ED rebuttal to the Maslin piece. Don't know what it takes to make something like that happen but it .... but I sure would like to see it happen.

nancydrewed link

9/28/2011 09:22:18 am

@Viola-Alex. Sorry -- mis-post. What I intended to note is that the newer fundamentalist churches are all very busy trying to supplant local and city government, one seat at a time, and they have had some success. They are currently running a Tea Party type who is receiving lots of GOP money to run against a very popular mayoral incumbent. I'm going to be doing lots of doorbelling on this race. If the TP candidate makes headway (he's an unknown with a shady background), well, we'll never get rid of him. The Chamber of Commerce -- they do like those business-friendly GOP guys, even if they do have some strange fundamentalist friends.

So I think you're right. It ain't religion. Class resentment, power and money. Dangerous combo.

LakeLucilleLoon

9/28/2011 09:24:17 am

Has the miraculous font of all Palin information "MeAgain" contacted Gryphen or anyone else to spill beans and have an interview? I didn't think so.

FrostyAK

9/28/2011 09:44:07 am

Here are some articles about the most political church in Anchorage, the Anchorage Baptist Temple - they tell the mayor how to run the city. There are many other fundy churches in Anchorage following in their wake. And ALL of them are tax exempt.

http://www.adn.com/2009/06/06/822109/measure-empowers-those-whose-behavior.html

http://www.henkimaa.com/2011/08/29/prevo-divorce-documents/

Seems the only charitable work they indulge in is their Xtian school:

http://www.charity-charities.org/Alaska-charities/Anchorage-71.html

Conscious at last!

9/28/2011 09:47:06 am

Also O/T, but I just couldn't resist sharing this with the folks here at Laura's blog- it's an interesting point of view:

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2011/09/there-is-no-such-thing-as-the-media.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the issues at hand- I think that class is a central concept in any discussion of religious fundamentalism, but so is suppressed rage and unexplored emotional trauma.

I understand that a large swath of folks who have been left behind by the high tech/service economy of the 21st century may be attracted to fundamentalist thinking. Still I think essential co-factors in the equation include local/regional subcultures as well as connection to one's own emotional reality.

Laura Novak link

9/28/2011 10:25:54 am

Frosty and Conscious, thanks for those links.

It was not pleasant reading those articles, Frosty. I don't care for men like that. But it did give me an idea for a blog post!

Viola-Alex

9/28/2011 10:27:27 am

such good comments. can you imagine not having the capability to be curious about ideas?

@Perplexed - thanks for reminding me of M.B.Eddy. I WAS thinking of MacPherson as my prime example of a religion headed by a woman.

@DebOH - yep. money, power. not Jesus's way. but the Vatican can teach them all a few things about money and power.

@frosty - purty ironic that wild/wooly AKers are now self-shackled to these controlling churches. I thought they wanted to be free?

@nancydrewed - I believe the mega-churches want to replicate what you describe and they don't, quite. not when your church membership is in the 10,000s.

@up - interesting! all our religious extremists - maybe we keep self-correcting when they show up.

consciousAtLast - "unexplored emotional trauma." and that's the key to all.

Ivyfree

9/28/2011 10:57:37 am

While I was raised Christian, it's been over 30 years since I tried to make it work for me. So I am posting here as somebody who makes no claim to understand Christianity- the further away from it I get, the less sense it makes to me! From this POV, I don't see any difference between the extreme wingers shouting in the public domain, and any other Christian. The voice I hear is that of the extremists. If anybody is trying to provide an alternate public Christianity, they haven't succeeded. Until I see some Christians doing more than posting, "not all Christians are like that" on the occasional blog, I will continue to think of people as either "Christians" or "Normal people."

I'd also like to point out that when people are frightened or insecure, they look for something to make them feel better. A rule-bound religion, a revealed religion where you read the rule book and there's ALWAYS somebody who can tell you what it means, is bound to be popular during a time of severe economic/environmental instability. I wonder how long it will take before the economy improves enough to allow people to relax to the point of questioning some things.

lazrgrl

9/28/2011 11:05:15 am

In response to earlier comments: I don't want to see Sarah brought down (she's already toast). I want to see the puppeteers behind her fully exposed and discredited.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/28/2011 11:30:30 am

Look what a quick cruise around the blogs will net you:

This Sunday (Oct. 2) the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) is sponsoring “Pulpit Freedom Sunday,” an event in which evangelical pastors are urged to break the law by endorsing or opposing candidates as they conduct religious services.

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=73a8bc45454166272bd701d20&id=3d3d4154ee

We're not going to get a break, are we?

FrostyAK

9/28/2011 12:49:04 pm

I like to think of myself as an eclectic where religion and spirituality are concerned. I have looked at many religions (ancient and modern), and taken from each what is relevant. For me the nature oriented belief systems resonate more positively. I choose not to be bound by dogma or rites.

That said, Ivyfree has an excellent comment above. In ancient times, humans invented gods to explain all that was currently unexplainable in their universe. When they were afraid, they prayed to the relevant god. When they were not afraid, they worshiped their gods with rites and offerings.

Most modern humans have moved to a monotheistic system of worship. With the move to monotheism, rites and rituals have continued, and strict rules of worship have been formulated over the centuries. Each sect seems to have their own set of rules, rites and rituals.

Whatever it was in ancient humans that made them seek gods is still alive in us today. The more afraid we become, the more we are apt to try to find solace in religion/prayer/rites/rituals. From the looks of things, times are going to get tougher - and IMO, that will mean more people seeking the solace of their chosen religion.

I have no quarrel with Christianity, Judaism, Muslims (is there an 'ism' for that word?), Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religion - as long as their practitioners WALK the WALK. I know some very wonderful people right here in Wasilla, who are devout Christians, who have never heard of dominionism (and don't want to, they told me). They DO walk the walk. But then there are 70+ churches right here in this den of iniquity, so some of the members, by the law of averages, MUST walk the walk.

Lock&Key

9/28/2011 01:15:03 pm

Just a mature thought, but it's not nice to call someone you've never met bad names. You have no personal basis to judge them.

Criticize actions you don't like or agree with, not the person.

Just think: how would I react if my mother were treated the way you treat Sarah. Now think about her kids defending her. Capiche?

anonfornow

9/28/2011 02:18:16 pm

Since you asked, Viola, I went and looked at the blog of my fundie theologian friend to see what he is saying about Sarah these days. He's still going on about her saintly anti-abortion cred and about the nasty liberals with their Palin Derangement Syndrome. But he has problems with the whole Mama Grizzly thing. Here's a funny part from a post from last fall:

"As I argued in our long discussion after Palin was selected by John McCain, conservative Christians ought not to have any problem with an occasional woman leader in the civil realm. It is quite true that every other leader of Israel was not a Deborah, but it is also true (and I think I can say this without fear of contradiction) that Deborah was Deborah. Can we agree that far? So I think the biblical precedents are there, and I think that Christian men would be better served by hunting around for a spine than by critiquing a woman who apparently got one of theirs by mistake. At the same time, you don't see Deborah telling the women of Israel to rise up to make their voice heard, and for everybody else to watch out for the mama whatever-dangerous-mama-fauna the land of Canaan was then home to."

He then goes on to warn her about sounding so "vapid"!

Tom link

9/28/2011 02:35:51 pm

@Lock&Key--

You're an ass.

physicsmom

9/28/2011 02:40:08 pm

Excellent post V-A. I have to admit that I am one of those people who don't know the difference between evangelicals and charismatics and christians and fundamentalists. In the early 70s I toyed around with pentecostal Catholicism, but I frankly never completely understood what their deal was and how it was different from mainstream Catholicism.

I was drawn to it through friends, but eventually wasn't "moved" to speak in tongues nor did I have any kind of transformative experience. Today I consider myself a Deist. I like the idea of having a "home church" for the community feeling of it, as a way to make like-minded friends and do public service, but I haven't found such a place where I live. <sigh> This has been an interesting discussion.

jeff

9/28/2011 02:59:41 pm

@lock & key,

Please copy us on each of the comments of a similar nature that you have left for each of the Palin clan, chastising them following each of their transgressions.

Else, leave and stay the fuck away. And yes, I do mean that in a good Christian way.

Capiche?

curiouser

9/28/2011 03:02:16 pm

Did anyone watch Rachel Maddow tonight? She played clips from yesterday's interview with Nicole Wallace and Steve Schmidt. Then she reported that the interview was news: The Republicans didn't vet Palin and Palin is mentally ill. KaBOOM!

curiouser

9/28/2011 03:06:20 pm

I hope someone close to Palin will take Rachel's show as an opening to get help for her and the kids.

FrostyAK

9/28/2011 03:08:52 pm

Hi Lockkey (or is that lackey), how much do you get paid to write your indignant posts on people's blogs? If this is any indication of your abilities, you are being overpaid.

Capiche?

Ivyfree

9/28/2011 05:03:16 pm

"Just think: how would I react if my mother were treated the way you treat Sarah. Now think about her kids defending her. Capiche?"

The difference being that my mother actually worked hard for years to keep an immaculate home and to produce regular meals for us. She baked our bread and canned fruit and made jelly. She didn't do cocaine off an oil drum. She didn't slut around or dress like a streetwalker with bad taste (although I'm told she really enjoyed dancing to big band music during WWII!)She didn't lie. She didn't cheat on Dad. She made sure we attended school and got our homework done and that she knew where we were, and consistently held out the glowing candle of a college education to us, telling us that we were not allowed to waste our lives. She was actually active in her church and she and Dad took us regularly, as in "every Sunday unless you're sick." She didn't drink her breakfast.

As a result, all of us have college educations. All of us have professions. None of us had kids out of wedlock, and nor have our kids. None of us have been in trouble with the law- and nor have our kids. None of us have problems with substance abuse- and nor have our kids. I have had my differences with her,and I'm not saying she was perfect- but she was an ordinary self-respecting decent woman, which makes her a long sight better than Sarah Palin, who apparently has a widespread reputation in her community for being vindictiveness, laziness, and ignoring her kids when she wasn't verbally abusing them. That, of course, explains the atrocious behavior of her three older kids, and it looks fair for Piper to follow their example- since she's running around Wasilla unsupervised.

Given that Sarah has not achieved any single piece of workable legislation in all of her failed political career, her entire reputation is built on the fact that she gave birth a few times, although not as often as she claims. One would think that since her children are the foundation of her career in politics and public speaking, their welfare and behavior would be of concern to her- but she is only concerned with herself and money. At some point, this might dawn on her kids, and they might then have the chance for some personal growth- but given their genetic heritage, possibly not.

Capisce? (Which is the correct spelling. If you're trying for snark, it works better if you spell correctly. As a bit of friendly input, snark works better when you don't make yourself look stupid.)

Ivyfree

9/28/2011 05:08:02 pm

FrostyAK: "I have no quarrel with Christianity, Judaism, Muslims (is there an 'ism' for that word?),"

The word is "Islam." There is much to admire about it.

Allie RN

9/28/2011 08:37:08 pm

Thanks for another great post, Viola-Alex.

Duhhhh

9/28/2011 09:16:07 pm

Ivy, do you know the history of Islam? It was created by an illiterate man who thought he was modeling it after the others.

Geronimo

9/28/2011 09:20:09 pm

Hey Ivy, it's god to see you think you know people just by what you read. And even better that you compare people.

You response is not an answer to that question. It's an immature response. No one should have to defend their mother to a bunch of losers who love speculating. And life can't be that bad as the kids still visit home frequently. Do you see all YOUR immediate and extended family daily or weekly???

Bill in Baltimore

9/28/2011 09:22:56 pm

@Geronimo
......what?

Lock&Key

9/28/2011 09:25:02 pm

I'm "an ass" for asking that my fellow Americans behave maturely and respectfully and that they not judge people they don't know?

Keith Olbermann was on the money, you all behave exactly how you describe Sarah as behaving. It's sad you can't see that.

My comment was polite. Your responses to it are what I would expect here and similar blogs.

Bill in Baltimore

9/28/2011 09:36:53 pm

@ L&K
......what?

9/28/2011 09:39:19 pm

hi April & Bristol.

Bristol, your mother put herself in the public eye, put herself forward to lead our country and influence public opinion. She blatantly presented herself as a model for others. So she opened herself to scrutiny of her record and character. She's been able to dish it out by defaming the record and personal history public servants such as John Stein and Walt Monegan. she belittled Present. Obama's impressive academic record. Apparently she can't take it, or she would not have hired your friend to come here. But she has to. It goes with the territory. Like how you opened yourself to critiques about your lack of grace and inability to work hard by going on DWTS.

Ivyfree

9/28/2011 09:54:36 pm

Ivy, do you know the history of Islam?

-Sure do. It's a fascinating history. Amazing that the Noble Qur'an was transmitted word for word through memorization, so that it wouldn't be lost- and they had the brains to establish the custom of listing who you learned it from- "I had it from Ahmed, who had it from George, who had it from Abdul... all the way back to the Prophet, peace be upon him. You can't consider yourself to have memorized the Qur'an unless you can list your instructor, and his instructor, and her instructor, all the way back to the beginning. That's how they guaranteed it wouldn't be changed as the Bible has been through so many different translations. BTW, do you know the difference between "history" and "origin?"

Hey Ivy, it's god to see you think you know people just by what you read.

-Hey, glad you're pleased. With Sarah it's easy: she's surrounded by failed people. You can always tell people by their history. Drinking, drugs, wild parties, unwed pregnancies, lying, cheating- she leaves a trail of destruction in her wake. What's that Christian saying? "By their fruits you will know them." And thanks for the non-denial denial.

Olivia

9/28/2011 10:56:47 pm

Oh,look, the teeneyboppers are back with their "mature" and "judgement" posts. They think it makes them sound like adults. An education would go a lot further toward that end, sweethearts.

SLQ

9/28/2011 11:58:16 pm

I sincerely hope those around Sarah will get her some help. I know the kids must love their mother and father, and no doubt seek to defend and protect them.

But kids? This is classic enabling behavior. You're the kids, even if some of you are now adults. You are not responsible for saving your mom (or your dad) from their own actions.

Things that are coming out about your home life are sad, and the revelations will only continue. Bristol, Track, and Willow, you should not have the responsibility to take care of yourselves and Piper and Trig. But you may be the only ones who can protect yourselves.

I have been an enabler for a family member, and here's what I would suggest you do: get your own attorney, and get your own therapist. Today. Those people can protect your interests, separate from that of your parents. They are sworn to protect your secrets, if that's what you want. But they can help you out of this mess. Please. Protect yourselves and start the process of stopping the enabling. It's not your job.

jeff

9/29/2011 12:19:02 am

My bad for engaging with the troll. Also, sorry about the f-bomb.

This troll wasn't worth acknowledgement. Of course, for that matter, none of the others are any better.

They all seem to be averse to the truth, so they get a little sensitive when they see it here in black and white.

notes on religion - mistah charley, ph.d. link

9/29/2011 12:24:18 am

As FrostyAK put it, "Whatever it was in ancient humans that made them seek gods is still alive in us today. The more afraid we become, the more we are apt to try to find solace in religion/prayer/rites/rituals."

One aspect of the religious impulse is the search for answers. Kurt Vonnegut was one of my own literary heroes. In his novel Cat's Cradle he invented Bokononism, a form of Calypso Zen. One of the verses in the Book of Bokonon goes,

Tiger got to hunt
Bird got to fly
Man got to ask himself
Why? Why? Why?

Tiger got to sleep
Bird got to land
Man got to tell himself
He understand

So that's one need religion fills. Ernest Becker, in his books Denial of Death and Escape from Evil, points out that religion also is our response to the fear of death. Our unacknowledged residual doubt of our "solution" to the fear of death is what makes us willing to kill others who call into question any detail of the faith we cling to. In addition to the fear of one's personal death, these days it is not unreasonable to fear the death of one's ethnic group, and of civilization itself - so it is not surprising that fundamentalism is on the rise both in the Americas and among Muslims.

When I was growing up, most Americans were Protestants (which is still the case, I think), and most Protestants belonged to the Mainline denominations, which is emphatically NOT the case. "The largest U.S. mainline churches are sometimes referred to as the Seven Sisters of American Protestantism...American Baptists, Disciples of Christ, Congregationalists / United Church of Christ, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians during the period between 1900 and 1960." --quoted from the Wikipedia article on Mainline_Protestant, worth reading in its entirety. Please note that AMERICAN Baptists are a different denomination from SOUTHERN Baptists.

Why the decline of the Mainline Protestants? Partly from demographic reasons - they don't have as many children as other religious groups do. Also, more fall away from those groups, and fewer convert to them. Their services and theology are less "emotional" and "zealous", and those seeking "salvation" find them less appealing than the evangelical, fundamentalist, and Mormon alternatives.

I speak as a former Protestant myself. Through a combination of circumstances, I now live thirty miles from where I attended Methodist Sunday School a half century ago. In the meantime I have been a member of the Unitarian Universalist Association, and now I attend a church named for a saint from the hometown of my wife, a lifelong Roman Catholic. I have considered, and decided against, converting to Roman Catholicism myself. Erich Fromm said, "It is the purpose of all the true religions to help man overcome his narcissism." Fromm, like Vonnegut, wrote at a time when gender-inclusive language did not receive much emphasis. I consider Catholicism to be one of the true religions in this sense, but I cannot agree that, if the Bishop of Rome and my conscience arrive at different conclusions, I must yield to the Bishop of Rome's opinion. Instead, I follow Pope Maurice (also known as Guido Sarducci), founder of the People's Catholic Church, in its doctrine of the Popehood of all believers: "Tutti uomini sono Pietri" - all men are Peters. My Papal name is Devananda, and I sometimes do business as the Sentient Beings Unitarian Universalist Association.

Finally, as an example of a man who had successfully overcome his narcissism, using religion as a tool, may I suggest educator, minister, songwriter, and television personality Mr. Rogers? Andrew Sullivan has recently had a couple of pieces about him. I don't think anyone could deny that Fred Rogers was a Christian. In my own opinion, he was a saint.

GhostbusterTX

9/29/2011 12:29:37 am

Wow.

Can we all take a deep breath or two here?

Lock&Key made a valid point, and expressed it more or less respectfully. Does it matter so much whether or not this poster is a "true believer"? I see a lot of energy being expended on these comment threads on defining who is and who is not "one of us" and who or who is not "one of them".

Y'all can categorize me however you want. But regardless of who Lock&Key is and regardless of what his or her motives are for posting that observation, I think it's right on the money.

Viola-Alex

9/29/2011 12:44:18 am

Ivyfree and Mistah Charley, thank you for a bracing start to my day. MCharley, you deserve your PhD, for that great essay on US religious life.

I read a great quote from the creators of South Park yesterday in the NYT, who have satirized all religions, but most recently Mormonism and Scientology.

They consider the Scientologists the most dangerous of all.

hmmmmm. well, I'd say given Greta's influence and Bristol's life in LA, that may be the next shiny new thing in Palin's life. we'll have to wait and see.

I disagree, ghostbuster. When someone crashes a party and then wags a finger at the other guests blaming them for poor manners, I find it hard to be sympathetic to the message. "Lock & Key" is a sad moniker and most likely, a telling one.

9/29/2011 12:51:08 am

Hey Bill in Baltimore, Geronimo had a point: I'm sure Todd and Piper visit the Palin home weekly, heck maybe occasionally even daily. Little Triggers not so much from what we hear, but, hey, if this were MLB then the fraction of Palin family who are in the Palin household on a semi-regular basis would be a pretty good batting average, of course excepting the ones who are old enough to have cleared out for good.

Viola-Alex

9/29/2011 01:33:28 am

haha, jk. humor is the best medicine. ghostbuster, breathing is a close second.

9/29/2011 02:50:51 am

I have distant relatives who never have left home. The kids never went to college, got jobs away from home or had enough curiosity to explore or even considering exploring the world. Of course, they weren't encouraged to do any of the above because they might get ideas in their heads that the old folks wouldn't approve of. Everything they know is something told to them by their elder relatives or church and they wouldn't consider or even have a clue how to find out information independently. A definite undercurrent of fear is definitely involved in this repression. There is a lot of drug use and alcoholism in this family, more than any other groups of my extended family, who have learned to explore the world and other ideas.
I wouldn't consider the fact that grown kids visit the family home every day necessarily a positive thing. It might just be a symptom of an unhealthy dependency or it could be that the visits are necessary to ensure that younger members of the family who haven't left home have food to eat and clothes to wear.

The Good Neighbor - Mister Fred Rogers

9/29/2011 02:55:42 am

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/the-grace-of-a-good-neighbor.html

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/the-good-neighbor-ctd-1.html

Mister Rogers defending PBS to the U.S. Senate

9/29/2011 03:03:53 am

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/the-good-neighbor-ctd.html

Lou in London

9/29/2011 03:20:16 am

The Fundie/Evangelical mindset feels so alien to me, but over here even our Church of England vicars are a bit shy talking about god publicly. If you ask a CoE person if they believe in the end times, or if they think it will happen in their lifetime – the answer would be ‘no’. You’d probably have the book of genesis explained to you as allegory, or a potted history of theology and how meanings change down the ages.
How did this incredibly self-centred, me-me-me, rapturesque (the world can’t continue without me) strand of Christianity take hold? I find it so infantile. And this lack of critical thinking allows for personality cult figures like That Ghastly Woman (TGW - I still find it hard to type her name) to spring up and become so dangerous. The hate-filled bile, and the utter destructiveness of this strand of ‘religion’, puts the fear in me. And it has real-world impact beyond the shores of the US. She embodies a ratcheting up of a madness that has been allowed to take hold of a space in the public discourse – it gives us Bachmann, Perry – and who the hell next? This is why I feel TGW must be brought down – not to just be allowed to slink away. Only by someone of this type being truly exposed, can we hope that something can be learned.
BTW , I like TGW, it’s shorthand at work for ‘Things Gone Wrong”; and boy is That Ghastly Woman a Thing Gone Wrong.
Thank you V-A – love your writing. And reading the rest of you.

Laura Novak link

9/29/2011 03:42:21 am

I also, too love V-A's writing. And I enjoyed those Sullivan links about Mr. Rogers. And IvyFree, I enjoyed reading that about your mother. One can almost pinpoint the generation of your mom based on that description. "They don't make 'em like that anymore," one might say.

And it reminds me how absent Palin's own mother has been in her stories. Never a peep about that woman who has visibly acted as babysitter for Sarah for 3 years. Not a word of admiration or respect.

Something lurks beneath that surface. And Joe only touched on it. IMHO.

Karen

9/29/2011 03:42:27 am

alright, don't tell @rubbernecking (;.) but here is the latest from MA:

Kat,
All my absence means is that I have been stuck working in anchorage all week when I had only expected half a day. I'm too old for this!

I have heard both of Sarah's speeches are getting hacked to bits, constantly being altered. Sarah wants to bring up Brad's reward in the "not running" speech; she wants to have her eyes fill up with tears and emotionally crow "there are even people trying to make money off my special needs baby" but of course her handlers don't want her to bring it up at all because it would only expose the seriousness of the pregnancy to a wider audience. She's going for the C4P jugular-- "as a mother, I cannot continue to see my children attacked".

Same old story, different day.

-MeAgain

7:12 AM

Viola-Alex

9/29/2011 03:49:29 am

Thank you for the Mr. Rogers' links. They made me cry. When I was a cynical, rageful young mother, Mr. Rogers gave my children a truly safe, wise place to be. I will always be grateful to him for that.

OP, a family can keep its secrets best when the children are kept close.

Lou, sorry but you're not safe. a distant cousin of mine has been building pentecostal churches all over England, and his congregations are growing. At least we're giving you a heads up for the next M. Thatcher, who may be a religious nut this time.

Anonfornow

9/29/2011 03:54:01 am

I find it so strange that Sarah is having two speeches written, one saying she is running and one saying she isn't. (Yes, I'm one of those people who believes Me Again is for real.) The only reason I can think of is that Sarah wants to run but, as Chuckles told us, she is not the "decider" and is waiting for the final word from her puppet masters. Hence the need to have two speeches ready, one if they tell her to go for it, a second if they tell her to bow out.

And then one needs to wonder, What are her handlers waiting for? To see if the Rude Ass from New Jersey throws his hat in the ring? If he says, Yes, then Sarah bows out; if he says, No, then Sarah is in?

It sounds as if she expects to be told not to run, since that's the speech that is getting most of her attention, and she already test drove one of her pseudoreasons on Greta (the "I don't need a title because I can be more powerful and influential by not being POTUS" headscratcher).

Katie Taylor

9/29/2011 04:02:56 am

Re MeAgain's latest post; Her closing accurately reflects my thoughts about her continued delay in producing or delivering her promised information to Gryphen, "same old story, different day."

Laura Novak link

9/29/2011 04:27:38 am

I am glad people are pasting Anon's comments here. I might not otherwise see them. What to think?

Bill in Baltimore

9/29/2011 04:46:57 am

I'm a MAgnostic. Show me the smoking gun,then you got me.Actually I do have to confess though.I REALLY look forward to hearing from her/him.

Laura Novak link

9/29/2011 04:48:47 am

My book is on Nook:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/finding-clarity-laura-novak/1105949777?ean=2940013416765&itm=1&usri=laura%2bnovak

I just had to hear how it sounded to say it!

And yes, I know what you mean Bill in B.

munchhausen by proxy at a further remove?

9/29/2011 04:55:12 am

munchhausen syndrome - continually seeking medical attention for fake ailments

munchhausen by proxy - using fake or induced illness of one's child to gain medical attention

munchhausen by proxy at a further remove - gaining attention by posting stories of pretended insider information on a blog

curiouser

9/29/2011 05:03:12 am

MeAgain is in Anchorage. Gryphen is in Anchorage. Why not meet up? Or use a hotel room or working place phone to call G?

Lou in London

9/29/2011 05:07:06 am

V-A – Arrgghhh, if you don’t hear from me soon – send reinforcements...

Sorry rubbernecking, but you have to admit that Karen was funny?

OzMud link

9/29/2011 05:16:01 am

I was raised under the banner of two different Christian religions - Orthodox and Protestant. When my daughter, aged 6 asked to attend an evangelist service with neighbours I didn't see the harm. The neighbours were nice enough and we traded babysitting so it almost felt like family.

A few months on my girl and I were visiting my parents. Out in the yard, my little one let out a blood-curdling scream and we all went running.
she'd stepped on a snail, crushing it under her shoe. She was hysterical, literally. It took a long time to get her calm enough to tell us what upset her.

Evidently, one of the lessons taught by the church was how a person would be paid back by God for harming any of his children - no matter how small. My daughter kept going on and on about how God was going to stab her in the eye with a thousand needles because that's the punishment for killing one of god's creatures.

She had alternating nightmares and bouts of insomnia for weeks after. It took visits to two priests and a Rabbi before she would believe me that nobody was going to stab her in her sleep.

My point is twofold: people, especially short ones, are incredibly susceptible to what they hear coming from a pulpit and some religions (more than others) tend to take advantage of that.

So why do some people grow out of their religion while others fall deeper into it? My girl is today by her own choice a Catholic. she finds the structure comforting and enjoys doing things for the community with her church group.

Sarah had the same choices the rest of us do. If she stayed with her particular brand of dominionist religion it's because she's getting what she wants out of it.

Good job VA-

GhostbusterTX

9/29/2011 05:30:53 am

> I'm a MAgnostic. Show me the smoking gun,then you got me.Actually I do have to confess though.I REALLY look forward to hearing from her/him.

Oh Bill, you have said it for me too.

BTW, folks, who stands to benefit most by furthering the idea that she still might decide to run after all? When in doubt, follow the money...

Palintologist

9/29/2011 05:38:08 am

It has occurred to me that MA is doing to us what Sarah has masterfully done with her followers. All of us are waiting for the next morsel or crumb to fall from her mouth. It is the "Is she or isn't she routine. "

Katie Taylor

9/29/2011 05:38:14 am

Curiouser, why not indeed? I also am struck by the lack of input from Gryphen regarding the continuing comments from MA at his site. Other than his statement that he was not hacked but can't disclose the source of the leak of the E-mail between him and Joe M, I haven't seen any other acknowledgement or comments on MA's prolific posting on his site. Ok, I'll take off my tin foil hat on the subject...for now.

Regarding the speeches being prepared I say BS. Yes, a sane mature person would probably do an official speech explaining their reasons for not joining the race for president especially if they had hundreds of fans working toward that goal. That being said, I don't think the sane and mature description applies to Sarah Palin. I therefore don't expect her to come forward with any speech shutting down the dreams of the hundreds of folks that continue to implore her to run. It would no doubt have a negative impact on fundraising for her PAC and we certainly can't have that. Yep, I suspect Sarah will continue to be coy right up to the convention. This tactic will allow her to continue to fund raise for a possible run (maybe even as an independent if she's not happy with the GOP choice) and her hundreds of followers to hold on to their dream as long as possible. Polls suggest republicans STILL aren't satisfied with their field and the truth is they never will be. As Jon Stewart said, it's not the candidates, it's the party. This dissatisfaction will be Sarah's rationale for refusing to get off the stage any time soon. I don't have MA's inside access so you probably should not assign too much credibility to my thoughts on this subject.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/29/2011 05:41:10 am

@Lou in London

TGW indeed. Has there ever been a woman who wore so many acronyms so well?

You asked: "How did this incredibly self-centred, me-me-me, rapturesque (the world can’t continue without me) strand of Christianity take hold?"

How long can you hang around for the answer?

Here's one of my super simplistic thoughts on that: it's always been with us. But it's been so crazy and socially unacceptable that it's kept itself underground. Then the GOP came along and in their desperation for votes, started lifting rocks and yelling. "Come out, come out wherever you are". Not having seen the light of day, these throwbacks are pretty primitive and think somebody just gave them the keys to the store -which, in out nightmares, may be true.

Hey, I said it was simplistic.

neversaynether

9/29/2011 05:51:33 am

MA wrote: "All my absence means is that I have been stuck working in anchorage all week when I had only expected half a day. I'm too old for this!"

If she is so worried about being discovered, why give out this information? Wouldn't it be a lot easier for Palin's people to find the leak?

I could have sworn she gave a location in an earlier post, too.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/29/2011 05:59:05 am

Ahhh @Palintologist - Now you've insulted my IQ and I'm going to have to go all mavericky on you.

MA is breath of fresh air in a room that SP has stunk up to high heaven. If she's writing fiction she's sure as hell better at it than TGW (h/t Lou). And while I'm hanging around waiting for the noose to be lowered, she's entertaining the hell out of me - and all for free. I got nothin' to lose by reading her.

FrostyAK

9/29/2011 06:02:43 am

OT, but not totally OT, since it seems from these reviews that "You Betcha" has a lot to do with the little mean girl's brand of 'religion' and self anointing.

http://www.observer.com/2011/09/northern-exposure-you-betcha/

http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2011/09/28/review_doc_provides_few_new_details_on_palin/

curiouser

9/29/2011 06:10:42 am

The documentary 'Jesus Camp' is an eye-opening look at how dominionist's educate their children and grow the movement. I was most troubled by Apostle Lou Engle's age-inappropriate emotional manipulation and enlistment of children on the abortion issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf1uHjjSu4E&feature=related

anonfornow

9/29/2011 06:30:56 am

A few thoughts for those doubting MeAgain:

1) If she's doing this only for attention, why is she putting her comments on a very, very old post? I suspect the truth is she really doesn't care how many people read her because the main reason she's posting is to get under Sarah's skin.

2) As for Gryphen's attitude, he posted that Sadie confirmed MA's story about Bristol teaching Tripp so say "Eeww" when shown a picture of Sadie. Also, Gryphen moderates his comments; he is taking the trouble to keep that very old thread alive. Why do you think he's doing that? And in case you missed it, he said he was leaving MA's comments there rather then bringing them into prominence out of respect for her/his wishes, since she/he obviously wanted them to remain relatively obscure.

3) Do I think MA is telling the truth about everything? Um, no. I think one of the things she/he could very well be fudging is the details about who she/he is and where she is. But the stories? Those I do think are genuine. They would require simply too much creative genius to dream up. Why put all that energy into writing pages and pages of lies to post on an old thread on a relatively obscure blog?

4) The Palin Fairy Tale troll has been very busy running around trying to discredit Me Again. Why, if it's all made up stuff?

The thing to remember is simply this: she isn't writing for us or to our timetable, and may not give a rat's ass about all the concerns we have for the future of this country. She is in all likelihood a Republican, perhaps even a Christianist; we don't know. All we know is that she hates Sarah and Bristol, and thinks Todd is an ass but has at least the redemptive quality of loving Trig.

Does she have smoking gun emails? I don't know. But I bet Sarah is scared shitless that she does. And I don't know about you, but that thought makes me smile.

Olivia

9/29/2011 06:37:01 am

The last few days there seems to be a lot more buzz about Palin being crazy and I don't mean mavericky, I mean mentally ill. I think the "cuckoo for cocoa puffs" meme is the thing that is pushing it out into the open and it is huge that it is from Republicans. With all the issues we know about that should bring her down, it will be this that will do it. "Sarah Palin is wacko" We all have been knowing it and saying it for a long time but the rumble seems to be getting louder and picking up momentum. It will be awfully hard for her to recover from the crazy issue no matter how hard you work to cover up evidence.

Viola-Alex

9/29/2011 06:42:22 am

interesting, Olivia. And what if Palin is done in by "cuckoo for coco puffs?" Conservatives love euphemisms, so they can snicker at the funny word. For centuries that's how men did away with troublesome women. Branded them crazy. But I'll take it!

SLQ

9/29/2011 06:55:26 am

Being "cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs" certainly allows the possibility that she faked a pregnancy, right? It might just be a bit more believable now.

Laura Novak link

9/29/2011 07:03:16 am

You're right, SLQ. And I also agree with those who have posted elsewhere that it's too little, too late for Wallace and Schmidt to pull the old "she's nuts" routine now. Perhaps Wallace figured she might as well make money off of it. Who knows.

Yet the thundering silence from McMaverick endures.

Meantime, Palin is still talking about "throwing her name in the hat." What an idiot. Pure and simple.

NSG

9/29/2011 07:06:11 am

SLQ, yep!

I think it's fascinating how all this is coming together. What a September!

And as much as I dislike Nicolle Wallace and am beyond disgusted that she & others promoted Palin in '08, I am perfectly happy to let her take a swing at the pinata.

As I said over at IM, this particular, Republican author, writing an unfit female VP in a novel, has the potential to open up a whole new population's eyes & minds to so many of the Palin hoaxes & cover-ups.

The dam is about to burst, with one crack after another, forming, deepening.

It's all been building, and I can't help but think we're on the verge of it opening wide up. The question is how much will be exposed? It can't just stop at "Sarah's mentally ill and did all this crap."

She had puppet-masters, enablers, conspirators. They must be revealed, too.

Lidia17

9/29/2011 07:11:44 am

I don't agree with Erich Fromm that religion is a way to suppress human narcissim; I think it exalts human narcissism: gods who think about "me", gods who intervene in the details of human affairs, gods who bothered to create Bad people and then exhort them to be Good. Gods who create hells and heavens to torment us. Why?

There's no religion that posits gods where the gods are not human-centered, obviously, which makes all religions that I know of human-centered and thus narcissistic. Religions are excuses for people doing what they want to do anyway, whether that is help people or viciously control them (mostly the latter).

-----------
OzMUd, that is a fantastic and chilling tale about the little girl. I can say that my born-again RWNJ sister got into her non-denominational evangelical Rapture church because of her son's organic mental illness. Now that she is convinced that "sin" and "demons" are the cause of his problems, the child, too, has gone from being disturbed to being RELIGIOUSLY disturbed, saying that God hates him, wants to kill him, etc. What an improvement! I warned my sister that giving a probably-autistic-among-other-things kid a series of new, bizarre, arbitrary absolutes would be overload, but, hey I'm going to burn in hell so who listens to me?

Both her kids now go through continuous existential trauma courtesy of their mother's chosen religion that would make an adult blanche. I don't get the point of it other than to torment and torture. Good people would be good without gods, and bad people just use gods to excuse their badness.

Karen

9/29/2011 07:16:51 am

My opinion on MA is the same as before. I want to be a believer, I enjoy knowing that her paid trolls are staying on that old thread and I enjoy bringing them over here, so the frequent visitors from the other universe can see them. It's kind of awesome to think that they have had to go back to that old thread from August 23rd to see if she's come back and is ready to reveal what she knows. I am still of the opinion that @sharon is, and anonfornow--if she's making all this up, she is a very creative bullshitter! I just can't quite see how she could come up with some of what she has if there weren't a kernel of truth and insider insight. But Katie, I could easily fall into your camp and tire of the wait. I also am waiting to eat crow if necessary.

Viola-Alex, very well written piece. All organized religions kind of give me the heebie jeebies but particularly those who are rooting for the end of the world.

Karen

9/29/2011 07:22:10 am

@Lydia, what a heartbreaking story. I am so sorry for you and hope your niece and nephew break out when they get older.

Also, I was unclear above--"bring them over" meant "bring the comments over" not the trolls. (Oops, I think this is a double-whammy, correcting my grammar and feeding the trolls at the same time.)

SLQ

9/29/2011 07:22:53 am

@Laura: Yes, she's a blithering idiot to continue to say that. I think it would be impossible for her to run, so why keep stringing it out? Either she can't admit defeat or she still thinks she can pull a deep-pocketed rabbit out of her worn-out hat.

@NSG: "She had puppet-masters, enablers, conspirators. They must be revealed, too." Amen to that.

and

"And as much as I dislike Nicolle Wallace and am beyond disgusted that she & others promoted Palin in '08, I am perfectly happy to let her take a swing at the pinata."

My feelings exactly. I may even buy her book, because good sales/rankings will mean more people will read it. It's a true catch 22.

SLQ

9/29/2011 07:24:40 am

As to "MeAgain," my viewpoint hasn't changed. Only time will tell. But I agree with others that it's entertaining. :)

in defense of fromm - mistah charley, ph.d. link

9/29/2011 08:21:03 am

I'd like to point out that the exact quote from Fromm uses the word "overcome", not "suppress" - "The purpose of all the true religions is to help man overcome his narcissism." There's a 5600 word essay on Fromm which explains his view of human nature and is well worth reading - see http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/fromm.html

I'd just like to make a few brief remarks here. My grandfather, raised a farm boy in turn-of-the-19th-to-20th-century Indiana, spent some time in the trenches in France in World War I. When I knew him he never went to church. I asked him once what he thought of the Bible. He said, "There are some good rules for living in there - and also a lot of fairy tales." I think so too. However, I go to church every week.

Narcissism, and the struggle to outgrow it (or the lack of struggle, or the failure to succeed in it) is crucial to the Sarah Palin story, and the Story of America As We Know It. Not only is Sarah narcissistic in her personal life, but her followers take American Narcissism vis-a-vis the rest of the human race to its extreme - although I will admit, it bothers me when even our current President expresses the psychotic view that We are the Good Cops of the World.

And notice, please, Fromm's pluralistic phrase: "all the TRUE religions." Fred Rogers, of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, was a Protestant minister. So was Rev. Jim Jones, of Jonestown in Guyana. They were both Protestants. Were they, therefore, co-religionists? If not, why not?

Sharon_Too_Also

9/29/2011 08:22:28 am

NSG - glad to see you're here - I was about to drag over your comment from IM re: Nicole Wallaces' book. Your explanation as to why we shouldn't disregard it was excellent and I was particularly persuaded by this reasoning in trying to reach the bots, un-Palin educated, or just plain thick-headed (my name calling - not NSG's).

NSG said:

"They almost always have to hear it more than once, often in different formats, from different voices. This is especially true when your message is counter to what they believe. (E.g., a sitting US governor would fake a pregnancy?!?!?!) "

I see not reason not to promote the book AND slam the author. Win and win.

FrostyAK

9/29/2011 08:23:49 am

@SLQ "I think it would be impossible for her to run, so why keep stringing it out?"

The why is easy. She is milking the moron cow dry before she fades into obscurity.

However, I don't think she will be allowed obscurity anytime soon. Her puppet masters are just like she is, they destroy what they no longer want/need.

Karma, Baby, Karma!

NSG

9/29/2011 08:29:21 am

Thanks, Sharon!

And I'll join you in that brand of name-calling: "bots, un-Palin educated, or just plain thick-headed." They've surely earned it. =)

nancydrewed link

9/29/2011 08:33:52 am

@Laura "Meantime, Palin is still talking about 'throwing her name in the hat.' What an idiot. Pure and simple."

I'm thinking I might throw my name in the hat too. After I, I learned how to twitter. ;-) Not so good with the facebooking though. Think that could be a problem?

Seriously, the woman left the planet some time ago it appears. That crash back to earth is not going well at all.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/29/2011 08:41:27 am

I would love to be a fly on the wall at the puppet masters board meeting today.

As I said on another blog, it's like the movie Contagion - the coco puffs are now blowing everywhere and in every form of media. Can her masters really continue to see some value in her now?

Karen

9/29/2011 08:46:44 am

Oh, heck, if all it takes is writing your name on a piece of paper and tossing it into a hat like you're winning a door prize at a baby shower, I'll toss mine in, too! And my dog's too, while I'm at it. It don't mean nothin'. It's just a title anyway.

9/29/2011 08:49:21 am

Katie Taylor, I'll do you one better: unless she's shamed into it, Palin won't leave the stage until after the election. She will string her believers along until November 2011 saying she's still thinking about it. Then she'll raise her voice to represent their interest with the GOP. Finally, late next spring or in summer she'll say she's mounting a write in campaign because she's dissatisfied with the emerging nominee. She will extend no actual effort except via FB, twitter, slick but vacuous commercials, and SarahPAC fundraising letters.

Viola-Alex

9/29/2011 08:56:00 am

So who the hell are Sarah's handlers?

Those PAC people?

Mary Glazier?

Todd?

Does anybody know?

nancydrewed link

9/29/2011 09:05:50 am

@mistah charley. My husband's grandmother used to tell stories about living in Oklahoma territory around the turn of the century. One of her memories was about the tent revival-meetings that would go on for a week or so of speaking in tongues, fire-and-brimstoning, and holy-rollering. Each morning, after the revelers had left for the day and before the revival resumed, the preacher and his family could be spotted carefully scouring the weeds for the change that had fallen out of the pockets of all those "rollers."

Also, the film documentary, "Marjoe", made back in the seventies, was an interesting peak behind the traveling revival circuit curtain. Marjoe, as the son of a preacher, was put to work as a child preaching-sensation whose fame earned lots of money for his father's "operation". He grew up and left the church in a crisis of conscience, later revealing its scams and telling about it all on camera. I believe the film won an Academy Award. Our American stories usually involve money, don't they?

search4more

9/29/2011 09:41:29 am

I think you are all slightly overplaying this idea that there are many puppet masters. If there are any then wow they using some defective string. ....Of course it doesn't help that the puppet is broken and randomly jerks around uncontrollably.

Palin's problem at the moment it seems to me is that she is in charge. she doesn't like anyone having power over her. she basically said that in the interview yesterday. I think it's more than just wanting to be independent though. I think she was deeply scarred by the 2008 campaign. If she staffed up for a campaign then she would have to see policy experts everyday and have conversations with them. She would have to relive some of th ehorror of the 2008 campaign ...It would be painfully embarrassing no doubt. Last time she had the excuse (not much of an excuse mind you) that she was plucked from obscurity. This time what is she supposed to say in the meetings?

search4more

9/29/2011 09:43:19 am

Nobody has mentioned the film Game Change starring Julianne Moore which is coming out soonish. Lets face it, 50%-70% of journalists commenting on the anti Palin books won't have read them, however everyone can spare 2 hours to watch a film.

Films are powerful. They strongly shape the public's understanding of historical events, often times leading people to believe in inaccurate versions of history.

The Film is likely to heavily feature the whole coocoo for coco puffs Palin thing. I'm not sure when the film is coming out, but if it's within the next 1-2 months it should really help to reinforce this "she's crazy" meme.

Conscious at last!

9/29/2011 09:46:45 am

@ Viola-Alex

Yes, I have the same question. Who are the puppet masters?

GVS and John Coale?

Tim Crawford?

A few weeks ago Mic-Mac posted something on IM(re:SP) which I brought over here. The comment named some specific Fundie Leaders Council or something like that - I can't remember the name. The post intimated that SP had direct dealings with them.

@ Floyd Orr - Hey, are you reading this- what was the name of that council?

Tom link

9/29/2011 10:09:03 am

Doesn't matter. Nothing's changed. Used to have 3 channels. Now there's 300. Pailn will fall. Obama will get reelected. People will lie, cheat and steal. The rich will get richer. The poor will remain poor. A bunch will complain. No one will revolt. Steady as she goes.

"Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before." Who? I don't know.

curiouser

9/29/2011 10:10:22 am

mistah charlie - Times haven't changed. There are still plenty of gullible people eager to praise God for speaking through a child when the child simply loves to mimic and perform.

Devon Tipton is the current day child preacher sensation--featured on the Today Show with a National Geographic special in the works.

http://tinyurl.com/5wqh58a

curiouser

9/29/2011 10:13:00 am

nancydrewed - I meant my comment as a follow-up to yours about the child preachers.

Lidia17

9/29/2011 10:16:38 am

@mister charley, sorry I was imprecise, but I don't see the effective difference..

"And notice, please, Fromm's pluralistic phrase: "all the TRUE religions."

WTF!!? Which religions are the "UNTRUE" ones? How is that phrase "pluralistic"?

Entertaining religion may be a job requirement for philosophers, but for the average person it merely leads to psychosis.

Tom link

9/29/2011 10:21:42 am

Tan over at oz mudflats pointed out that the Wallace book has been out for some time yet just now there's the doulble team, Wallcae and Schmidt, on a lefty show, more than insinuating their vetting failures--and Wallace admitting that a ridiculous character was based on SP. Why not when published? Why now? Marching orders?

Sharon_Too_Also

9/29/2011 10:23:48 am

Puppet masters or not, I think there is another reason she hasn't pulled the plug -

Sarah Palin is a coward.

Have you ever read of one instance where she faced up to any situation, person or challenge with honesty? Probably silly to even think that she might start now.

curiouser

9/29/2011 10:37:47 am

Tom - Wallace's book, 'It's Classified,' about the cuckoo VP, was just released on Tuesday. It's the second in a series. Perhaps Tan was thinking about the previous book, 'Eighteen Acres'.

curiouser

9/29/2011 10:46:21 am

Heads up for those following 'MeAgain'.

Anonymous said...

"her speech is not currently being written"  

Or   

"there is no speech"

  Which is it, Bristol? HER SPEECH is not currently being written...because the "right" one is done. Thanks a mil for validating that. Now, shouldn't you go relieve Kyle from the babysitting duty he never signed up for?  

I'm just about ready to head home...I hate that I wasted money on a hotel when I could have driven less than an hour each way...why is it that a hotel seems like a fabulous luxury on day one but by day three you're ready to weep for joy at the thought of your own bed?  

Gryphen- incoming!

  -MeAgain
3:48 PM

FrostyAK

9/29/2011 11:27:49 am

Good post at PoGates about mixing religion and politics:

http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/09/suppose-extreme-were-to-become-norm.html

TRUE Religions? Any? Many? - mistah charley, ph.d.

9/29/2011 09:45:02 pm

In reply to Lidia17 -

Fromm's phrase "all the true religions" is pluralistic, in my view, because he does not claim, the way that many people do, that ONLY ONE religion is true.

I understand your statement "Entertaining religion may be a job requirement for philosophers, but for the average person it merely leads to psychosis" to be your claim that NO religion is true.

Obviously, I disagree. In my example of the two famous Protestant ministers, Mister Rogers with his Neighborhood and Jim Jones with his Jonestown, I meant to show that a person's religion interacts with his character, and to illustrate that the "same" religion (and viewed from a great enough distance, Rogers and Jones can be said to have had the "same" religion) can have VERY DIFFERENT effects.

In my view everyone HAS a religion - even those who have NO religion or who never think about religion - but the discussion has moved on to the next posting.

May the Creative Forces of the Universe be with us all.

phantomimic link

9/30/2011 11:07:22 pm

As for Palin and religion, it doesn't surprise me. Most people in positions of power "use" rather than "have" a religion. It's keeping up appearances.

As to religion in the U.S., what troubles me is the rise of all these churches that appeal to people's emotion, not their reason. They also tend to be militant and active politically but they don't argue to learn, they argue to convert. What could they possibly learn from people who think differently than they do? After all, isn't the big guy (God) on their side? If that is the case (and they are 100% sure about it) how can they possibly be wrong?

Ivyfree

10/1/2011 12:32:08 am

"Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs"

The fact that this is coming to the forefront now indicates that the RNC has decided McCain's irrelevant and they've lost their appeal to the undecided. They were willing to protect McCain when he was their candidate. They were willing to protect him after the election, when the RNC was in chaos and they were trying to figure out what to do. McCain is not the candidate for 12, and we know it- heck, he knows it. They don't know who it will be, but the fact that Ailes is saying Fox has gone too extremist indicates that they realize they've gone too far and are trying to reel it back in a bit.

Somebody gave the okay for Wallace to publicly acknowledge that Palin is crazy. The RNC is incredibly structured. They let their people know what they can say, and they go after people who don't toe the party line. Wallace was very compliant during the election. She said very little immediately afterwards. Now she's talking (writing) about a crazy VP candidate who she admits is based on reality. Somebody has decided that they've gone too far and has relegated Palin to the clown car: she can come out occasionally with her bright red nose, racing around the ring, honking her horn and throwing buckets of harmless shredded paper over people, but they're making damn sure she drives backstage when the real acts come out.

I wonder if Sarah's realized it yet?

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6/13/2012 09:02:56 pm

I think the things you covered through the post are quiet impressive, good job and great efforts. I found it very interesting and enjoyed reading all of it...keeps it up, lovely job…

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6/21/2012 06:08:31 pm

My partner and I enjoyed reading this write-up; I just wanted to know do you trade featured articles or blog posts? I am always trying to find somebody to make trades with and simply thought I'd ask.

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8/29/2012 05:43:31 pm

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11/26/2012 10:19:34 am

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