Hey Nineteen

9/23/2011

My copy of The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin by Joe McGinniss has arrived.

I just tore through Chapter 19. I will read the rest of the book as soon as I can this weekend.

For now, I'm glad to see Andrew Sullivan given the credit he deserves for vociferously and repeatedly questioning the very questionable story of Baby Trig's delivery.

I am reassured to read that those who knew Sarah the most, believed her the least.

It is also, too, good to know that real Americans possessing common sense will see the details that we've followed so closely these three years. What did YOU think of this chapter? And the rest of the book? I look forward to this discussion of any of 'em, all of 'em books about Mrs. Todd Palin.

9/23/2011 10:35:19 am

i love Steely Dan, even when they are at their most misogynistic with Hey 19.

I also love the Rogue. More for the local color than the salacious tidbits which have been making the news. McGinniss may not say whether he believes Palin gave birth to Trig, but his questions should be enough to give any thinking person pause.

comeonpeople

9/23/2011 10:40:40 am

I'm on 14. Will check in this weekend!

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 10:42:25 am

I read Chapter 19 and skimmed parts of the rest. It reads well. Chapter 19 is written for a wider audience, people less familiar with the oddness of Palin's birth story. Even the negative NYT review of his book said he "put forth a provocative case for doubting Ms. Palin's account". Oh, and I'm flawed human being who felt a flash of joy at seeing the NYT call her Ms Palin instead of Governor Palin.

P.S. McGinnis is sharing some of his emails. He forwarded his email communications with Shailey Tripp to Dave Weigel at Slate. http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/09/23/the_mcginniss_e_mails.html

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 11:04:55 am

I believe Chap 19th is the best in the book. It doesn't have that gee-whiz-I'm-back-in Alaska-with-grebes filler stuff. However, it does rely enormously on Sullivan-- almost too much. The rest of the chapter is well told and convincing.

Of course, it's a relief to see any of this in print and written by a journalist of Joe's stature and ego.

My problem is with the book as a whole, but I'll wait for that.

diz

9/23/2011 11:08:52 am

It's a great telling, I doubt you'll be disappointed. Enjoy. I didn't come away with any huge discoveries about la Palin but I came more to understand how she is in real time with others and a bit more about why she is the way she is and why she persists with her charade.

It's sad that the chatter is about the more gossipy tidbits rather than open-mouthed gaping about her radical religious agenda abetted by a horde of false 'prophets' who guide and fund her devious path toward a theocratic oligarchy.

She doesn't want to be a true leader, she just wants to finally be the 'boss' of everyone. A delegator rather than a real doer. A talker but not a walker. I think she truly believes the office of the president is a PR position with legions of 'little' people running around doing all the real work while she winks and waves and rides around in AF1, reading the speeches of others and accepting resounding applause. She doesn't get that she is but a pawn as well. When her little schtick no longer pays off for those behind the curtain they'll move on with another puppet. Bachmann and Perry prove that the process moves forward as Palin moves further toward obscurity and irrelevance. Many thanks to you Laura for your ongoing brave participation in her voyage toward that end.

Natalie

9/23/2011 11:27:33 am

I am new to the anti-palin blogs but not new in my immediate distaste for her from the time she was pushed on the lower 48. I started by going to Joe's blog in anticipation of his book. That led me to IM, this blog, Politicalgates, etc. That enlightened me to the babygate story. I must say I was hesitant to believe it. Now, not so much. If nothing else Joe's book has made this more public. (My copy should deliver tomorrow.) I've learned so much from you, before even reading his book. Thank you all very much! I love this blog and the info here.

bob

9/23/2011 11:30:25 am

Ottoline

9/23/2011 11:52:12 am

Natalie -- As you know if you read the early posts to the first Babygate blog (Audrey's blog palindeception), we've most of us been there re not believing a hoax possible. Early on, it seemed logically impossible for Palin to have given birth as stated, but it just seemed impossible that anyone would do so bizarre a thing. So for a long time I was on the fence. As I've written here repeatedly, it was the Mar 14 photo that proved it to me and helped most of the circumstantial info click into place.

Most important, though, has been my own education, via this hoax, re the state of our country, big money's role here, and MSM's abdicating its role.

Glad you are here: can you tell us what was/were the key things that shifted your thinking away from skeptic? It may help us all to hear a fresh take on that, because of course there is still a long way to go.

NSG

9/23/2011 12:23:49 pm

Sorry to go O/T so early -- I'll add my $.02 about 19 & the rest of the Rogue later -- but after following @rubbernecking's link to Weigel's piece about Shailey, I had to highlight the last sentence (written by Joe)...

"It’s been so long since any of the Beltway Bloviators practiced actual journalism that they apparently don’t recognize it when they see it."

Ha! I liked Weigel's earlier piece, and this goes further, specifically in response to Breitbart's hackery.

Definitely worth checking out for a bit more on the story.

akbright

9/23/2011 12:34:26 pm

Didn't one of the Palin authors state she ate a lot of diet pills prior to the birth of Trig? What pregant woman would be using and abusing diet pills while pregnant? Not to mention how much she lives for attention, if she had been pregnant, I would think EVERYONE on her flight back to Alaska would have known.

NSG

9/23/2011 12:39:51 pm

I love reading everyone's reactions. :)

@Viola-Alex, I kinda liked the grebes! It was a nice palate-cleanser in the midst of the foul taste of Palinville, and I thought it worked well as he wove his own Palin experience with the bigger story he was reporting.

Even though I'm way less conversant with the Palin details than most here, I'd heard most of it. Thus, one of the great benefits of the book for me was placing all the tidbits into a timeline, in context, and with the texture of the personal observations.

I agree with others that the salacious tidbits that have grabbed the headlines are minor in the overall book, and that the real main points are revealed through the whole story.

Finally, wrt Chapter 19.

In my case, I had planned to walk into a store and buy the book. Well, it turned out that Tuesday, 9/20 was a friend's 40th b'day, and a girls day out had been planned, beginning at 9:30a.m. I discovered that the B&N near our meeting place opened at 9, so I was waiting in the parking lot when they opened the doors. (No fear of being labeled a Truther here!!!) Of course, I read 19 in my car while waiting for my friends. =)

My $.02 on 19 is that Joe did an excellent job balancing the tone. He presented credible others' reactions, SP's own words, and he laid it all out, as objectively as possible. I'm of the school that believes that HOW people hear about the possibility of the hoax is CRITICAL to overcoming the automatic "no way" resistance. I think he presented it beautifully in order to begin opening eyes, ears & minds.

Finally, I think the book is the right compilation of information, with the right tone, at the right time to help achieve the necessary tipping point for the whole shebang to be uncovered.

And that's what I'm waiting for!

9/23/2011 12:41:00 pm

akbright, that is totally correct. Palin is such an attentionhoor, and there are several times such as on those flights when she was uncharacteristically quiet.

Karen

9/23/2011 12:45:47 pm

Anon me-again @ the Broomfield thread regarding Trig's birth certificate, getting readying to send info. to Gryphen and possibly contacting Laura regarding "print journalism."

Looks like she is getting ready to blow.

Anonymous said...

This is interesting, given all the chatter lately about Sarah trying to procure a "correct" birth certificate...while going through old emails from early 2010, I came across one which discussed a blowout fight had by Todd and Sarah. Sarah went "off script" on a radio show and claimed to have produced Trig's birth certificate. Todd was livid; he said if she hadn't made such a stupid comment they could have said the reason they weren't showing the BC to the public was to preserve Trig's privacy. It sounds like Todd might have thought that was going to be a big deal but like so much else...the media just ignored it.

I'm so interested to see what's in Fred's book!

Just to note--although I will be sending my "real" posts to Gryphen...I may still comment here to answer specific questions or address certain people, and so on. Just to be clear. And yes, I am going to try and send as much as I can to Gryphen, as quickly as I can. I have also been thinking about contacting Laura Novak with a couple of issues related to print journalism. We shall see how the weekend goes.

6:16 PM

mea

9/23/2011 12:51:41 pm

what happened to rah-rah's alleged tubal ligation??

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 01:00:31 pm

woohoooooooo Laura! I'm so glad Anon238 is thinking of contacting you. I had so hoped she might.

@NSG - about those grebes. they just seemed gratuitous. now if he'd digressed a bit about grebes, what they mean in AK, what their nature is, how they survive on a dead lake. . . even just a description, I would have loved that. To have experienced something about AK that Joe and others love.

I think it was the tone of the book that seemed lacking. It felt, well, dead. As if Joe had to force himself to write the book. The narrative voice is so weary. And maybe for AKers, the details of the place didn't need to be filled in.

BUT others haven't read it, and I really don't want to sound whiney. Perhaps Chap 19 required some real thought for Joe, and he had to work through his own beliefs as he wrote.

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 01:39:23 pm

Print journalism? What happened to the information worthy of the moose head in the bed? Is Blogger still eating his/her homework?

I vote for more guest posts from palinoia/katie on health insurance.

TksABunchJohn link

9/23/2011 01:45:23 pm

I adored the grebes, especially when they were quiet the night Nancy was there. I'm a sucker for a bit of romance. The grebes reminded me of the loons in On Golden Pond.

I also ADORE the fact that Anon828 will be contacting Laura!! And that he/she wasn't scared away by Gryphen's response today. I DON'T want an actual insider scared away because of doubters or egos!

Sherryn

9/23/2011 01:47:05 pm

I've followed Joe's career and read many of his books. The man is a true old school journalist. The problem with The Rogue, for me, is I suffer from Palin fatigue. I've followed the blogs, did all my reasearch when she was put on the RNC Stage and I came to the book with a lot of "baggage"

But I must say, Joe definately didn't dissapoint me. He has a knack putting it all in a new perspective. I avoided jumping to that chapter first, it was tempting, but I wanted to let it unfold, see it from his experience and I found it held my interest.

Natalie

9/23/2011 01:52:41 pm

Ottoline -The photos changed my mind as well. There is just no way this woman was 7 months pregnant in March 2008. The wild ride story was further proof since this was just a plain stupid tale. As much as I never liked her, and thought she was ignorant as hell, I didn't take the time to really look into her past until I actually thought she might run for President. Then the radar went up, big time. I am so glad you guys have been on her from day one. Whew!

Karen

9/23/2011 01:55:01 pm

I found this comment really interesting "...While Going Through Old Emails from early 2010, I came across one which discussed a blowout fight had by Todd and Sarah. Sarah went "off script" on a radio show and claimed to have produced Trig's birth certificate."

I wonder if this is one of the e-mails the attorney said would hold up because it didn't have the official confidentiality language had she used the state e-mail. When 238 references "print journalism," I think she is looking for a good media outlet and with Laura's experience writing for NYT she may be seeking a good reporter to share the goods with.

SLQ

9/23/2011 02:21:22 pm

Rubbernecking, yes, as a matter of fact, that's what Anon238 said. S/he retyped her comment, tacked on that last bit, but only that part showed up. I suspect s/he'll post it again.

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 02:27:40 pm

@Karen, Bailey published a book that relied heavily on emails sent between Bailey and Palin on private accounts. McGinnis is forwarding email exchanges he had between potential sources to bloggers like Weigel. What's the problem? It looks like Anon238 should be able to share his or her private emails, just like McGinnis and Bailey.

Katie Taylor link

9/23/2011 02:28:57 pm

I have my Kindle and hard copy versions of the Rogue. I'll pass the book around to friends who aren't familiar with Babygate or most of Palin't other sins. I won't get deep into the book until the weekend though. Having just read chapter 1 though, I can say I like McG's style and I think it will be an easy read for most folks who will be compelled to finish it. Sarah's story is nonfiction that rivals the most dramatic novels. I do have a question for the posters here. Is it normal for 2 brunettes to have a blonde haired child? I ask because I continue to suspect that Levi may not be the biological father of Tripp which might explain some of his odd behavior. Has anyone seen pictures of the Palin or Johnston off spring as children? Were any of them blonde as children whose hair darkened as they grew older? My final thought for the night is that I think we need to approach 238's information with a healthy dose of caution. Hard to believe that someone has been sitting on the information in her possession and now that she has decided to reveal what she knows she chooses the IM blog.

mmud

9/23/2011 02:29:54 pm

@Ottoline: Ditto.

SLQ

9/23/2011 02:34:11 pm

"MeAgain"'s latest post:

I'm going to try this ONE last time!

My "part one" of the post that started about the birth certificate.

I was going through old emails my source had sent from early 2010. Todd was blowing a fuse because he was afraid of fallout from something Sarah had said on a radio show--"they asked us for Trig's birth certificate and we have provided that". Todd asked her how she could be so stupid, that they could have said when asked why they never produced Trig's birth certificate because he is a minor and deserves privacy. But now that Sarah had said "we provided it", it would be obvious that privacy was not an issue to them.
It seems like Todd expected a lot of fallout from it, while Sarah expected people to think "oh, they released the BC? Well I missed it, but I'm sure everyone ELSE saw it..."

I'm still sticking with my plan to let Gryphen mine the mountain for what should be shared but I wanted to point this out because it was interesting to me given all Sarah's recent machinations concerning birth certificate acquisition.

Basically the rest of my post just said I welcome skeptics and don't mind them at all; what I minded was the person who said I hadn't provided "anything new".
I said Sarah was on drugs before Mudflats or Joe mentioned it.
I said she would make a grand gesture to "prove" how healthy she was; approximately 72 hours later she shows up at a half marathon.
I said Bristol was bombing with test audiences and days later the Masseys AND a production team member say the show is being "retooled" to "star" Tripp.
I said Sarah yelled at Bristol on the phone and told her the Palins could not have another "failure", and she had better do "whatever it takes" to make the show a hit. And just today, TMZ (the largest/highest rated tabloid website and TV show in the US) just happens to catch Bristol in a very "watchable" confrontation.

I truly DON'T care if people disbelieve me...but I really feel saying I haven't provided "anything new" is flatly incorrect.

Please God, let this one post!

7:52 PM

honestyingov

9/23/2011 02:43:29 pm

Since the topic is Joe McGinniss's book and I see some comments about " NEW " people being introduced to the story. Many of the Facts we know if you just apply some ' common sense '.. do they MAKE sense?
For those that may be unaware... a good friend of Joe's (Roseanne Cash)read an advanced copy. However, In an earlier post on Joe's blog, Roseanne also weighed in with HER opinion of Sarah's 'version' of the "Reckless Ride". Using HER common sense. I'm not sure a lot of the public saw that early post by Roseanne. They SHOULD. Roseanne has a lot of credibility with many people.

Here is the link.
http://www.joemcginniss.net/rosanne-cash-tells-what-a-caring-truly-pregnant-mother-would-have-done-in-texas/Joe%20McGinniss

honestyingov

9/23/2011 02:48:49 pm

Before Joe's book came out Roseanne Cash had posted her ' opinion ' of Sarah's " Reckless Ride " back in June in a blog post on Joe's blog. using ' common sense ' she voiced her opinion. Maybe some NEW people to the story may not have seen that. Worth reading.

http://www.joemcginniss.net/rosanne-cash-tells-what-a-caring-truly-pregnant-mother-would-have-done-in-texas/Joe%20McGinniss

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 02:49:57 pm

@Katie, @KMR shared a link (http://tinyurl.com/3es4jad) to childhood pictures of Levi. He was light-haired as a child.

It's pretty common for children with Northern European ancestry to have light hair as children, and dark hair as adults. I can think of at least 3 guys who had blonde hair in childhood, but thick, dark hair by college.

Mrs GUnka

9/23/2011 03:00:00 pm

I am expecting my book next week. Since I read here 3-4 times a day, think I'll refrain until I can read the book and form my own opinion. I refused to read Sarah's book and enjoyed reading about it, but will wait to comment until I read Joes. Following this story since day one and reading old and new comments has shown me, everyone has their own version of what happened. The last 3 days I have read so many takes on what happened that it is hard to make sense of it anymore. I realize their are some who are trying to confuse us with deceptive narratives. Amy insists the March 14th picture is the truth. I say all of the pictures convinced me this woman is a liar. Some swear up and down Trig looks just like Levi. Trig is very typical of all DS babies...some are blonds, some brunettes and some redheads, but they all basically resemble each other. I do not see Levi when I look at Trig. I do not see Trig when I look at Levi. Levi looks a lot like Todd too. Track resembles Curtis. Trig looks like Trig and Tripp looks like Tripp. Until we have positive proof who are the birth parents of Trig we are only guessing. We have seen so many Trig and Tripp pictures it is mind boggling. I will read the book and form my own opinions then come back and read some more. I was really hoping Palinoia was going to come back and give us more information on the insurance rules and regs.

When a detective is getting his information he waits till all the evidence is in before presenting his case for court. He doesn't throw out bits and pieces to see what others think. All the evidence is gathered and checked before he unveils it. He doesn't tease anyone with what he knows, he only states the facts. He is in control and know what to discard with the facts he has.

Tom link

9/23/2011 03:07:39 pm

I look like my Dad. How about the rest of you, which parent, aunt, uncle do you resemble? Dying to know.

FEDUP!!!

9/23/2011 03:17:38 pm

Katie Taylor

Fri, 23 Sep 2011 21:28:57

"... Is it normal for 2 brunettes to have a blonde haired child? I ask because I continue to suspect that Levi may not be the biological father of Tripp which might explain some of his odd behavior. ..."

Well, from my personal experience - and I CANNOT tell you if it is common or not - I can tell you that I have seen that though: Our neighbors had a baby girl when I was 20, and she actually had pitch-black hair. (I have a picture of me holding her as a newborn). When she was around 2 y/o, her parents took her for a vacation to Greece, and after 3 weeks, they returned with her being PLATINUM BLONDE! (I wasn't there at that point when that happened - my parents told me that, but I saw her later that year, when I went to visit with my 6 mo old daughter. I DO have pictures of her as a platinum blonde and to this day, she still is such. Both of her parents are brunettes, and her sister also is a brunette... Still can't figure out what turned her hair white.

Ottoline

9/23/2011 03:19:29 pm

SLQ: Thanks for posting the latest anon238.

Anon238: It might be **me** you are pointing to re the "nothing new" comment, and I apologize for putting it that way, or in any way that offends you. What I meant by "nothing new" is nothing that we can use to make things move forward, to a timely resolution of our effort to remove Palin from politics because of her vile influence on them.

I have a slightly different view of what I want to know than some commenters. I'm not interested in her family squabbles, nor the adventures of her children, nor her hair or clothes, or even her mental health. Those are all serious matters for someone, but my interest is limited to removing her from further political activity. As we remind ourselves often, we never know where the next valid clue will come from, so we want to be open-minded. Some commenters are a lot more open-minded than I am.

I have certainly speculated on all of those other things over the last three years, but now I want to limit my interest to only what will remove her from the national dialogue and expose her enablers and supporters. Like everyone else, I have a comprehensive theory of what happpened (including early childhood issues for SP, family issues, financial illegalities, and who enabled/supported her and how, why, and when). I might not be 100% right in my theory: there are so many variables. But I bet most of us bloggers have the broad strokes approx right. Like your comments about drug use. That is not a surprise to most of us, and it's also not enough to expose the BabyHoax. Not even McG's cocaine use report did that.

Yes, you did predict the marathon adventure, but that isn't helping to prove the BabyHoax, either.

I know you can understand that after 3 years of icebergs that don't actually sink the Titanic, we bloggers want to be sure we do not exaggerate or blow out of proportion or get over-excited about any reports that are not meaningful for actually stopping SP. So we want to go right to the most relevant info you have.

So what I really would appreciate knowing is: your best shot. Can you tell us anything that would constitute proof for the MSM that Palin did not give birth as stated. For example, the Valentine's Day outfit photo is interesting but doesn't give us proof: as you say, it could be any baby on any day.

I am puzzled about your long preamble: why not just tell us the straight scoop. We all just want to get this over with ASAP.

FEDUP!!!

9/23/2011 03:26:50 pm

Tom: I believe I read somewhere that looks somehow have something to do with the emotional state of the mother when she conceives.
I don't remember the exact reasoning given, but some kids (both boys as well as girls) will look like a spitting image of their father when the mother was totally in love with the father at the point of conception. If the mother was a bit ambiguous about the father, the kid's looks would be a bit more ambiguous, leaning towards the mother's looks.

Don't know if there is truth to this, or if this is simply an 'old wife's tale'.

FrostyAK

9/23/2011 03:33:13 pm

"Is it normal for 2 brunettes to have a blonde haired child?"

According to a net search:
"Yes, If both parents have a recessive gene for blonde hair. Most likely, the child would have to have one blonde grandparent on either side so each parent carries a blonde gene, but recessive genes can "hide" (be passed down but not expressed because a more dominant gene is present also) for several generations. That's most noticeable when it happens with redheads, a redheaded kid will suddenly pop up in a family where no one know of any red haired relatives, but it happens with blondes too. The child must receive a blonde gene from each parent. Also, it's relatively common for a child of brunette parents to have blonde or very light brown hair as an infant and toddler that gets darker as they get older."

mmud

9/23/2011 03:34:10 pm

Talking about hair color: How come Sarah is a brunette? Seriously, her parents don't look (to me) like they had dark hair as younger adults. Does anyone know what color their hair was? How about eye color? Her sibs were all fairer than she.

Not normal for light haired couple to have a truly dark-haired offspring, is it?… genetically?

Ottoline

9/23/2011 03:38:49 pm

Re two dark-haired parents giving birth to a blonde-haired baby. Here's what they tell you in beginning genetics. Dark hair is possible with two dark-hair genes (or DD; you get one gene from each parent) or with a dominant dark-hair gene and a recessive blond-hair gene (DB). If the genes of the two parents are DB and DB, they would both be dark-haired, and they have a 25% probability of producing each of these kinds of children: DD (dark haired), DB (dark haired), DB (dark haired), BB (blond). (I.e., 75% dark-haired and 25% blond-haired.) But "your mileage may vary": Parents like I just specified could well have 12 blond girls. Rare, but possible.

So yes, it is possible.

Although genetics is a lot more complicated than what we learn in a beginning class, this basic concept is true. However, almost any characteristic is affected by more than one gene.

Where it gets confusing is rules like "the child can't be lighter than the lightest parent or darker than the darkest parent." Because the expression of some genes is linked to the existence of other factors. So as pedigreed animal breeders know, you can predict some probabilities, but the actual outcomes always hold some surprises. As one example, two DD parents could produce an albino. Or a child who is v blond in childhood and turns dark-haired upon growing older.

So I would never speculate on eye color or hair color or even physical resemblance to rule out or rule in genetic linkage. Remember that adoptive children very often look like their adoptive parents, and dogs and their owners sometimes have an uncanny resemblance. We have to base our conclusions on more solid ground, because DNA tests are prob never going to be available to us, so all such issues will remain in the the realm of speculation.

Tom link

9/23/2011 04:22:18 pm

@ottoline--"We have to base our conclusions on more solid ground..." than who looks like who? Really? Except for the migraine and bloodied forehead I was enjoying the baby shower chit chat. With 36 nieces/nephews, 50+ great nieces/nephews, 3 or 4 (who counts at this point) great great nieces/nephews, I rarely get a chance to discuss family resemblances.

physicsmom

9/23/2011 04:30:23 pm

I'm within pages of finishing the book. Chapter 19 was a disappointment to me, but I understand that Joe was ambivalent on the concept, so he didn't actively try to "sell" it. He is getting the idea out there, hopefully to a broader audience than just us.

I appreciate the fact that Anon 238 is back and spilling more information. @Ottoline, please be patient. This person has waited this long to confide what she has learned and I'm just grateful that she has. (I'm assuming that the writer is a "she"). As you said, you never know what tidbit of information will be the tipping point.

That said, I think that @Palinoia's expose on insurance information is a red herring. Particularly when another insurance professional stated that an at-risk infant would be covered until they are out of the woods,even if they were the neo-nate of a dependent. Palinoia said that was a matter of interpretation, but it certainly syncs with my understanding of both my and my spouse's policies. Also, people keep talking about insurance fraud, but it would only be fraud if they tried to recoup unpaid costs by presenting the baby as a different one whom Sarah birthed. As of now, there is no evidence to support that. I will read with interest, however, part 2 of Palinoia's post.
Namaste.

V ictoria link

9/23/2011 07:00:29 pm

If Anon238 reads this: please compose your posts in Word and then copy/paste, so as not to lose your work.

aew

9/23/2011 07:36:23 pm

re: genetics

I was born with a shock of straight black hair, was a brick red little Shirley Temple at age 2, straight-haired blonde by age 4, and wavy light brown as an adult. In turn, I birthed a beautiful copperish redhead, 2 brunettes (one curly, one straight), a "cotton-head" blonde, 2 kinky-haired strawberry blondes, and a brunette with olive complexion who is, depending on where she's living, mistaken for Greek, Italian, Hindi, Urdu, Spanish, Mid-Eastern, Mexican or Native American. Don't even get me started on eye color.

I recently posted a 1930's era photo of my grandfather's cousin with his family. Grandfather's father & Cousin's father were brothers. Cousin had one son, around 8 in the picture.

Flash forward to now. My Uncle (Grandfather's son) is himself now a great-grandfather of an 8 year old boy. Boy saw the photo at a recent family reunion, and asked why *HE* (the Boy) was in that photo with those strangers.

Nothing spooky--just genetics.

Allie RN

9/23/2011 10:07:15 pm

Hey, Tom, I'm a genealogist; I can talk families all day and all night. :)

Levi was blond as a kid. There is a photo in his book in which he looks a lot like Tripp. I actually did a doubletake before I realized that Tripp isn't quite as old as Levi was in the photo.

It takes looking at those photos that Laura published a couple of months ago to see the facial-structural similarities between Levi and Trig. I found that the images kind of haunt me and that I can't really dismiss them yet.

And, BTW, NSG, reading Joe's book really strengthens the foundation for BPD for me. Your story about the B&N took me right back to the one I used to hang out in when I lived in SD. It was in Poway. Great store.

Haven't gotten to 19 yet.

Welcome to our new readers and commenters. Beware -- this is an interesting, awesome and addicting coffeeshop, even when we are bickering about our sources and our conclusions. With all that is unfolding in rapid fashion right now, we are a little jittery, kind of like Secretariat was on the day he ran the Belmont and won the Triple Crown by 31 frickin' lengths! Magnificent elation will soon be ours, too.

DebinOH

9/23/2011 11:14:19 pm

Allie, I agree I do see Levi, as a younger child, in Tripp. Not an exact match by any means but a general look about him. I am a genealogist as well & it is fascinating.

Chapter 19 - I am not disappointed with how Joe played it out. You have to remember that with anyone who comes on too strong people just dismiss them as wacko.

I think it is far better to plant the seed and then have people start looking into it. I don't know maybe I am wrong but if you compare it to the Obama birth certificate people just say wow what a nut and go on their merry old little way. I just thought those people were nuts, but because I am inquisitive did look into it.

How many people thought this birth story was wacko until they looked into it? Me, I am weird, as soon as I heard it I thought it was nuts and looked into it. Again though I do like to research stuff. So many people just think she is a nut anyway & really could care less one way or the other. They are busy with their own lives and just don't care that much.

We, I think, are a different brood. We care about our country (not saying that they don't because they have no idea that these idiots are slowly ruining our country); we care that this complete idiot could ever have been placed on any political ballot; we knew she was a fraud from day one; we care that the news is no longer (maybe it never was?) the "real" news; we care that our country continues with a separating between state & church; and for myself, mysteries are interesting.

Between Dunn's book & Joe's book people should be scared out of their minds that this woman was so close to the White House. Both books were very well researched & I think both of them are excellent. I still have no idea why Dunn's book was not well received. I loved the references myself but perhaps people don't like that?

bob

9/23/2011 11:14:59 pm

I am finding "The Rogue" to be enlightening. At first, i thought i would be put off by the way Joe M. interjects himself into the story--wishing he'd declined to rent the house next door as it's been such a distraction. i'm half way thru---with the exception of chapter 19--and now i appreciate how Joe M has been able to use his personal experience to lend context to why he was willing to grant anonymity to so many sources. I, too, turned to Chapter 19 first and found the way Joe M presented the whole Trig issue to a wider audience. Whatever their public positions, i do not believe that Joe or Andrew actually believe it was possible for this baby to actually have been born to this person under these circumstances.

For people just tuning into this blog, i encourage them to read Laura's interviews with Brad, and her interviews with various doctors. Joe M's introduction of the Trig issue is very basic and restrained.

And shame on all those in the Media that went up to Alaska to interview Palin in her home, allowing her to present a wholesome and happy home life as one of her credentials to run for office and influence national issues--without ever questioning whether this presentation was any more than propaganda. Shame.

it's time..

9/23/2011 11:15:06 pm

Comparing looks and hair color and whatever does not matter in the long run.

Example: My best friend high school is a brunette, always has been. Her whole family is brunette. EVERYONE in 4 generations that she knows about. Her sister, who is not adopted, not the milk man's baby, and 2 years older than her, is a REDHEAD.

Genetics are a funny business.

Oh, and I'm sick of Anon/mediainsider/wendy. Same defensiveness, same attitude, same writing style. ALl bullshit. This person uses other people's comments, and what "palin haters" might expect from something.

There have been too many reg flags and lies. She/he's too generalized. It's all crap we've written before out of stupid speculation that has no basis.

comeonpeople

9/23/2011 11:27:07 pm

OK, read through to 19. Having never heard of grebes, I am enjoying reading about them. Are they a metaphor? Sarah is screechy, lives on a dead lake but doesn't take care of her kids really, even though she states her family has always been her first priority. The grebes only job is to take care of the babes and hey - they actually do it.

When reading 19 I was very impressed, even though I've been at this since 8/29/08 I thought it was powerful stuff. Joe NEVER writes he beleives she gave birth. He writes he thinks she's Tri-G's mom: "AT first it seemed outlandish, even indecent, to suppose that Tri-g might not be Sarah's child. I did not,and I don't". Well, hell we all believe that. We just don't believe she birthed him on 4/18/08 or any other time. I think he beleives she didn't birth him either.
Thank you, Joe.
Also, I knew he was from the Phila area but he is actually from my adacent town!! I was too young to know of him in the 70's but his extneded family is literally less than two miles from me. I think that is really neat.

Finally, I want to address how ridiculous Todd's statement that you "can't have a fishpicker born in Texas". Well, why the hell not? in 2008 hunting and fishing was a 14.4 BILLION dollar industry in Texas. Plentry of fishing, shrimping and crabbing down there. Here is a link to an article on this:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20080226g
The tale was just too ridiculous to begin with and Toad's reason for the wils ride, were she carrying Tri-g, is stupid also too.

comeonpeople

9/23/2011 11:34:01 pm

Damn, sorry for the bad grammar and typos in above post.. Typed sans coffee what I was thinking.I am more literate than this shows....

Bill in Baltimore

9/23/2011 11:34:41 pm

@ Allie RN
"Beware -- this is an interesting, awesome and addicting coffeeshop, even when we are bickering about our sources and our conclusions."

I like that.So true.

Lou in London

9/23/2011 11:37:14 pm

O/T I’m going to do a couple of posts of the latest from Anon238 (and a Gryph response) in case some of you are not up-to-date.

Point for clarification--  When I say Breitbart manufactured "whatever", I am not trying to say he fabricated the email. I remember months and months ago Gryphen mentioning Joe asked for more proof. So the actual email is no big deal--it shows Joe won't go to print without proof. I think they call that journalistic integrity. Obviously Breitbart wants people not to have the "aha!" moment...whereby the realize Joe DID find more proof, more people to talk to, and so on...in the intervening almost year between when the email was written and when it was released.   No, what I mean is Breitbart is manufacturing (or trying to) this line about Joe publishing a "fraud". Breitbart and Sarah are 100% in collusion...well, Breitbart and Sarah's TEAM are in collusion; Sarah is really just on the sidelines.   The major issue now, of course...how did Breitbart come to have that email?  Given who we KNOW is at the top floor of The Palin Facade pulling the puppet strings...it's very interesting to consider how Gryphen's private communications ended up being gleefully lambasted by one of the most vile, vitriolic nutjobs in RW media.
6:47 AM

‪Anonymous‬ said...
Yes, 6:47 is me.   Gryphen, please publish my last post. It's really important to me that what I said is "out there".
9:15 AM

‪Anonymous‬ said...
Nobody spazz out. Gryphen has not published one of my posts but it is NOT a "juicy" one. Obviously there is one or more details which he has decided isn't fit for public consumption. I trust him.   BUT...Jesse, that post was really, truly important to me. Can you copy it, remove whatever item you feel is better left unsaid, and then paste/repost?  I have been SO busy trying to catch up on work after my vacation, going through two solid years of correspondence trying to unearth as much verifiable "dirt" or info-laden statements regarding Sarah...family obligations, and so on--I just really don't have the stamina to re-type it.   Just for clarity's sake, Gryphen...it was the post where I ended it by saying I didn't want to wake up with a dead moose head in my bed.
11:07 AM

‪Gryphen said...
I apologize Anonymous 11:07, I have no idea why one of your comments was deleted. that does happen occasionally because Blogger can be a little temperamental.  However once they are deleted I am unable to retrieve them. Sorry.  If you want to keep that from happening in the future it would be very helpful if you would sign up for a Google account (No personal information necessary), or send me that e-mail that you keep promising to send.  Right now you are making people work much too hard to find your comments and it is really time to start sending your information to me directly.   Your identity will remain safe.   And no, I was not hacked by Breitbart.
2:52 PM

Lou in London

9/23/2011 11:38:59 pm

‪Anonymous‬ said...
  This is interesting, given all the chatter lately about Sarah trying to procure a "correct" birth certificate...while going through old emails from early 2010, I came across one which discussed a blowout fight had by Todd and Sarah. Sarah went "off script" on a radio show and claimed to have produced Trig's birth certificate. Todd was livid; he said if she hadn't made such a stupid comment they could have said the reason they weren't showing the BC to the public was to preserve Trig's privacy. It sounds like Todd might have thought that was going to be a big deal but like so much else...the media just ignored it.   I'm so interested to see what's in Fred's book!   Just to note--although I will be sending my "real" posts to Gryphen...I may still comment here to answer specific questions or address certain people, and so on. Just to be clear. And yes, I am going to try and send as much as I can to Gryphen, as quickly as I can. I have also been thinking about contacting Laura Novak with a couple of issues related to print journalism. We shall see how the weekend goes.
6:16 PM

‪Anonymous‬ said...
*screams in frustration*  Where's the FIRST part of my comment?!  And the first part is where I had re-typed the OTHER comment that got lost.    Horse pee!
6:55 PM

‪Anonymous‬ said...
I'm going to try this ONE last time!  My "part one" of the post that started about the birth certificate.   I was going through old emails my source had sent from early 2010. Todd was blowing a fuse because he was afraid of fallout from something Sarah had said on a radio show--"they asked us for Trig's birth certificate and we have provided that". Todd asked her how she could be so stupid, that they could have said when asked why they never produced Trig's birth certificate because he is a minor and deserves privacy. But now that Sarah had said "we provided it", it would be obvious that privacy was not an issue to them.  It seems like Todd expected a lot of fallout from it, while Sarah expected people to think "oh, they released the BC? Well I missed it, but I'm sure everyone ELSE saw it..."  I'm still sticking with my plan to let Gryphen mine the mountain for what should be shared but I wanted to point this out because it was interesting to me given all Sarah's recent machinations concerning birth certificate acquisition.   Basically the rest of my post just said I welcome skeptics and don't mind them at all; what I minded was the person who said I hadn't provided "anything new".  I said Sarah was on drugs before Mudflats or Joe mentioned it.  I said she would make a grand gesture to "prove" how healthy she was; approximately 72 hours later she shows up at a half marathon.  I said Bristol was bombing with test audiences and days later the Masseys AND a production team member say the show is being "retooled" to "star" Tripp.  I said Sarah yelled at Bristol on the phone and told her the Palins could not have another "failure", and she had better do "whatever it takes" to make the show a hit. And just today, TMZ (the largest/highest rated tabloid website and TV show in the US) just happens to catch Bristol in a very "watchable" confrontation.  I truly DON'T care if people disbelieve me...but I really feel saying I haven't provided "anything new" is flatly incorrect.   Please God, let this one post!
7:52 PM

‪Anonymous‬ said...
Apparently going through 26 months of Palin and Palin related emails killed some brain cells. I see now that my post about Trig's birth certificate/radio show did indeed go through. I swear it wasn't there the last time I loaded the page.   NOW I'm going to let Gryphen decide what, if anything, to post...FOR SERIOUS, as the kids say.
8:43 PM

9/23/2011 11:40:08 pm

The "how can Tripp be blond" questions are more dust that we shouldn't let get kicked up: Recessive genes. Asked and answered. (FWIW, my husband and I have chestnut brown hair and our kids are blondies, one honey and one nearly platinum.)

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 11:59:41 pm

Forgive me all. I've said this probably a hundred times over the last three years, but it's early and dark here, and I'm feeling it all over again.

To nail Sarah Palin, it will take a woman.

It is men who tapped SP and put her in power. It is men who enabled her to do her darkest deeds. Forget Mary Glazier or any of those crazy-ass weirdo cult people. To fear them is to fear the boogie man. Or Dr CBJ, who was just another Kleenex to Palin. The real powers were all men in high places. Or that damn fucking Todd, who enabled his wife to persecute her own children daily. Todd could have stopped this madness years ago by walking out.

Joe's book, for me, reads like a man who is keeping something at bay with a long stick. Sure, the info is there. But it feels (for me) like a litany of character traits and misdeeds-- not like a true portrait of a female human being.

All along, people didn't believe in the hoax because they couldn't believe anyone would do it nor that they could get away with it. That is still one of the great stumbling blocks, and Joe does not remove it.

And THAT will eventually be the story, when a better writer than Joe, or maybe just a different sex than Joe, gives us the full picture of gender politics and madness.

I don't mean a medical diagnosis. I mean a portrait in the Greek tradition or as a Shakespearean character. Has there ever been such hubris in the modern world? To use the most sacred of all physical acts for political power? AND wreak this ploy-- not by sleeping with someone and having sex-- but with a damn pillow!

The story is huge. Grand. Epic. Born of a place and people that I still don't understand. And I'll have to wait for the right storyteller to help me make sense of it.

Men have jumped in. Dangerous, Dunn, Bailey, Joe, Brad, Jesse, Levi, Floyd -- and a sprinkling of hardass male-imitator-writing women who clearly are not in touch with their own feminine side. ( For me, the most shocking part of Joe's book are the adoring words he quotes from his arch-rival journalist Janet Malcolm, on Sarah Palin, while watching Palin's reality series. WTF.)

Until the right woman comes along, I'll grovel at blogs to glean bits of sense and meaning, until Anon238 or Palinoia or another brave woman pulls back the curtain, for good.

Perhaps I'm still holding on to the slender thread of Audrey. . .and Regina. . . and Bree. . . and hoping Laura is the one at the end.

Susan

9/24/2011 12:19:33 am

@Ottoline - I get what you were trying to say when you referenced "nothing new" in regard to Anon. But your explanation definitely cleared that up. Good job :)

You said: "I am puzzled about your long preamble: why not just tell us the straight scoop. We all just want to get this over with ASAP."

OMG, right? I feel myself getting somewhat pessimistic about all this and that is not my nature, at all. The way Anon responded to you and to rubbernecking, and some other tidbits I have noticed have put me in mind of someone's temperament. But whatevs. Does it even matter? This informant can cloak themselves as Barney for all I care, just put out what you have. Teh troof....u haz it?

Now Anon says she will give her material to G and let him "mine the mountain" and decide what info to release. *head hits desk* Which reminded me of what Joe said in the leaked email about G, that he often, "has info that I can't tell just yet," and that there was always something "just around the corner." Did anyone notice that Joe seemed to say that he'd been reading G's blog for some time? Anyway...

I finished The Rogue night before last and I thought it was fantastic. Joe makes the case for who Palin is and, more importantly, how she operates. Beyond the salacious stories (though important themselves) Joe lays out, in the blinding light of day, the real Palin. The book has a steady pace and content that builds the case as it goes. What evolves for the reader is her basic foundation: the callous and calculated way she uses people, her belief that she didn't need to educate herself, her self-absorbed abuse of truth, her dangerous and demented religious beliefs, and her compulsive, vicious, vindictiveness. Bada Bing. Put a big ole sticky sweet icing layer of her using her looks and a dazzle 'em with bullshit dialogue over top of that and you have: Sarah Palin.

Just as important, Joe makes an airtight case for just how intricately Todd is entwined in her life and that his nature and personality is just as devious and vindictive as hers.

It's a formula that you can use to refute any nice thing or supposed accomplishment that her panty-sniffers push. If she treated someone nice, she kicked them later. If she passed legislation that was hailed one day, it was later found to be flawed. And on it goes. It's all smoke and mirrors.

I read a lot of it late at night, sometimes fighting off the sleepies...lol. So I'm going to give it a few days and read it again. I'm also going to post my review at Amazon. Five Stars!

Susan in MD

rubbernecking

9/24/2011 01:08:06 am

I think we need to consider giving a closer look at Bristol's and Levi's books. These books are actually better sources than Anon238. At a minimum, we know who they are, and the details people choose tell about themselves can be unintentionally very revealing. I'll try to draft us something that gives us a timeline of he-said/she-said and see where it goes. If it looks interesting, I'll pass it to Laura for consideration as a guest post.

Again, I was very inspired how @palinoia and @katietaylor guided us on a productive conversation. I feel strongly that the insurance insights are something that the MSM might take notice of. There is absolutely no logical or financial reason for the Palins to opt for Open Enrollment vs Life Change Event if Trig were born to Sarah Palin on 4/18. Absolutely none.

We need more insights like the insurance research. If Anon238 is really on our side, he/she needs to scale back on all the self-created drama.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 01:28:41 am

So is anon238 saying that the Murdoch empire tapped Gryphen's email? "how did Breitbart come to have that email?  Given who we KNOW is at the top floor of The Palin Facade pulling the puppet strings."

In spite of Gryphen saying: "And no, I was not hacked by Breitbart." Implying that Gryphen knows how the email found itself in Breitbart's hands.

So G says: "it is really time to start sending your information to me directly.   Your identity will remain safe."

I say Gryphen is right. Enough with the delays. Send your best shot to Gryphen, anon238. Each delay with producing concrete info that MSM will take seriously makes me doubt you a little more. I know you don't care, or at least say you don't. Your not caring about credibility on the important issue of exposing BabyHoax turns me off a little more each time, too.

Rationalist

9/24/2011 01:30:50 am

Totally with you, V-A. It's got to be a woman who really breaks this. Palin's birth story is utter bullshit, and it's going to take a woman to explain why.

Tom link

9/24/2011 01:32:04 am

I like you all a lot but...

This business of telling/suggesting what posters should post, include, disinclude motivation, yada yada. That sort of reaction is a disincentive. I take the view of so and so may be a jerkoff but she's my jerkoff. I've seen this at websites before. Someone appears to have inside info and rather than take the info at face value the poster gets insulted. I experienced that here and at oz mudflats with something re: that race (minions my ass). It's annoying.

I received an emaik yesterday from a old friend who lives in the D.C. Beltway and knows people, political people, who've been around DC for a long, long time and have insights. The content of the email is nothing earth shattering but does provide a POV from a Republican strategist/insider regarding Palin and baggage and a few other things. It's a private email from friend to friend so the veil isn't up and I have permission to copy a few paragraphs. Do you think I'd bother if I didn't believe the content had some value.

Anyway...

@Allie--I have twin sisters who look nothing alike. One is a slight redhead (Dad's side of family), the other a sturdy brunette (Mom's side). You'd think they were from a litter. That's ridiculous though the redhead will sit up and beg from time to time.

I haven't posted it because I don't want to get angry when the email and the sender gets picked apart rather than being viewed as informative.

Balzafiar

9/24/2011 02:02:43 am

@meAgain posted again at her usual spot, some comments about criticism.

"I just needed to clear THIS up quickly--I'm not sure if this was a troll trying to discredit me or if it's true...

I saw a comment on the "truthometer" post. It said the national enquirer and e online have quoted my posts here verbatim almost and questioned whether or not I was "selling" my info.

In a word, no. In two words, HELL NO.

First of all, if I were trying to secure a payoff, would I have posted here first? That is just silly. I do not begrudge people who want to sell their Palin dirt (as long as it's true) but I am not looking for that kind of notoriety or anything like that.

IF the enquirer did "steal" my posts in whole or part...I just don't know what to think of that. Is it good that the story gets out by any means? I just don't know.

I'm also over troll bots accusing me of being media insider and others. I'm just...me. I post FROM Wasilla which Gryphen can see. And I can't help but think it's trolls who constantly attack me like the person above who insists I somehow I just "guessed" everything I said. Because I can "read people".

Really, you can't NOT laugh at them.

-Me Again

6:54 AM

Viola-Alex

9/24/2011 02:04:37 am

@Thank you, Tom and Rationalist.

There is nothing to be gained here, at Laura's, by pitting commenters, posters, and informants against each other. Or by expecting others to do everything the way you want them to.

If facts about Palin were all it took to bring her down, it would have happened years ago. And that, in a nutshell, is what I tried to say above in my long ramble.

Karen

9/24/2011 02:08:04 am

What Viola-Alex said, and Tom and Rationalist. Also, too.

Jolene

9/24/2011 02:13:28 am

What convinced me, as a "newbie" to Babygate (started reading these blogs this summer) was the video where Palin is bragging about her "tight abs," and how she "hid it"--the pregnancy--til her 7th month, adding "But I didn't really have to hide it, I have really tight abs so I could hide it." The whole time she's speaking, Palin is slyly grinning, closing her eyes a lot and just looked like a total liar. "That woman's lying," I told myself. I, too, have been very reluctant to believe the Babygate Hoax is true. Sometimes I still shake my head and go, "No way, too crazy, can't be." Then I remember her tight abs story and think, "Liar." The woman would lie about the sun going down in the West if it suited her purposes,

Melly

9/24/2011 02:18:05 am

MeAgain says: I'm still sticking with my plan to let Gryphen mine the mountain for what should be shared ...

Why are you giving Gryph censorship over your stuff? Most of us here are veterans of this battle for truth about Palin's fraudulence. We're perfectly capable of handling whatever you've got. Or maybe you ARE Gryph. I'm not going there. I just want to say, this is not the time to be a tease, and not the time to entrust your info with a guy whose email seems vulnerable right now.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 02:24:36 am

This discussion sounds like the years-long discussion about the various Anastasia imposters over the many years before it was resolved. This or that Anastasia-claimant was said to resemble some early photo or other person. The observer was "just sure of it." "Believed it with all her heart." Others claimed a conversation with one of the poseurs made them certain that this one was the real Anastasia (knew things only the real Anastasia could possibly know). From reading the bios and autobios of the imposters, it seems likely that some of them believed they were in fact Anastasia.

As this was going on, over many years, tinged with the big-bucks aspect of some huge sum in a bank in England (or with the British royal family, I forget), funds that belonged to the Czar's family, it was truly puzzling, and one longed to believe one or another impostor.

In the end, as you may remember, the remains of most of the Czar's family were found in a pit and documented via DNA as being the true family (Nat'l Geographic story). And a little later, another nearby pit was found with Anastasia (and someone else, I think), and also documented via DNA. Case closed at last.

So when we say people look like each other, or we do a long-distance diagnosis of some mental condition, or say SP did not behave like a pregnant woman -- we might be right or we might be wrong, but we are not establishing proof or anything that a skeptic will believe. I mean the MSM and their public. We already have the demonstrated 3-yr-old reluctance of the MSM to address this, for whatever reason.

So a credible actual email would be good right about now, anon238. The Mar 14 photo works for me because it is documented as authentic and shows us a flat profile that makes a birth 5 weeks later a medical impossibility. So do the other key photos. But obviously we need something more. Something as unassailable as that photo. Joe's summary of it all seems like another good building block, but we still need the keystone that skeptics will instantly grasp and accept. And it ain't physical resemblance; he said/she said; amateur diagnoses; sexual history; or family scandal.

What is it? We don't know yet. But whatever gets posted SHOULD be subjected to our scrutiny rather than accepted as coming from "our" dear informer. I AM taking the info offered at face value. I would like it to be significant (in terms of credibility and content) and lead to our goal. But I am commenting that IMO it does not so far meet those criteria.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 02:26:18 am

Bill in Baltimore, are you Neo?

If so, in your professional expertise you have valuable insights in Babies and their growth.

I'm sure you could help burst the bubble.

Skye.

If you are our Neo, nice to see you here.

Karen

9/24/2011 02:26:41 am

Would everyone just get over telling Anon what to do? For god's sake, she lives in Wasilla, with all those churches and cronies. Where do YOU live? Chicago? Biloxi?

Look what @Tom just posted about having information he would share but isn't sure he wants to have disparaged. He has posted on this site from Day 1, and still he knows you would go after him for sport. @rubbernecking, sometimes I think you are legitimate and other times I think you are just stirring up shit. I don't know which one it is right now.

Anon is bringing forth more information and insight. If some of it doesn't meet the smell test, too bad. A lot of what we have learned over the last three years doesn't meet the smell test because the facts of what should be so friggin simple to prove have been hidden by the one person who, if she had any decency, would tell the truth so her poor fucked up kids don't have to go through this endless scrutiny. How about you turn your anger to the person who deserves it, and away from Gryphen, Joe, Anon and the other anonymous who have been chased off (Wendy Waitress, carpool mom, etc.)?

This person doesn't owe you all a goddamn thing. Enough already.

llly lily

9/24/2011 02:36:57 am

NO ONE HERE owes anyone here anything except courtesy. By an large we offer our opinions, insights and expertise as best we can with the addition of a few trolls and agitators. That is to be expected.

We are all human and make mistakes, but the majority of us are here for one reason. To get the truth of the matter out into the light, because the woman is evil. Not only does she makes errors in judgement that cause destruction in her wake, but because she is downright evil.

As the heckler in the bar opined after his vulgar remarks, and Bristol chose to confront him (with a camera crew and friends behind her) if there is a hell, she belongs there.

So the blogs in their search for the truth, give Palin a taste of hell, which doesn't exist in the hereafter.

Dust to dust.

Let her feel some retributio here on earth.

cdc

9/24/2011 02:45:25 am

Karen - I totally agree with everything you said. Thank you for saying it in such a way that maybe people will take a step back and take a deep breath before they discredit and start calling names.

I feel bad that Tom cannot say or post what he wants to on this blog for fear of repercussions. From what I have seen, the commenters here are intelligent and logical. I just think some get overly emotional and post without thinking of other people's feelings. This is a discredit to Laura and the purpose of her blog. Like I said before, take a breath and think before launching attacks and turning people away from what should be a safe haven.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 02:49:03 am

In my family no one looks like anyone else. I looked like Simone Signoret in Casq d'or when I was middle aged, but not when I was young or old. My husband was the spit of Louis Jourdan in A letter to an Unknown Woman, in his late twenties and thirties, but Louis didn't look the same as he aged. Faces do change.

My sister looked like Doris Day, a natural blonde with blue green eyes. Exactly like Doris Day.

My brother when young looked like George Peppard. A blue eyed blonde.

Another brother a black haired blue eyed young Alec Baldwin.

I was a brown eyed brunette, who enjoyed different hair colors due to Clairol as the mood hit me. From Platinum to dark brunette.

Don't know what we looked like as children, but we sure didn't look anything like anyone else in our family. Everyone of us, startlingly different.

In Sarahs family there appear to be a few cuckoos in the Palin nest. Maybe, maybe not? Who cares, the only cuckoo that makes a difference in this strange saga is TRIG.

Viola-Alex

9/24/2011 02:51:54 am

@Ottoline. Thanks for the memory. I was at University of Virginia when "Anastasia" puttered in her garden in Charlottesville. I once spoke to her, across the fence.My friends and I were giggling, probably drunk. I only remember she was cranky and eccentric and told us to go away and leave her alone. We all knew her story.

I was both sad when the DNA cleared it up and excited. I had seen "Anastasia" and wanted to believe, but how useful science can be! But no one ever fully explained how the fake Anatasia could have convinced so many or if she believed her own lie.

Did DNA also prove the Sally Hemmings story?

Melly

9/24/2011 03:04:12 am

Jolene, here's the tight abs clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uaXa0WCcHQ&feature=player_embedded

Susan in MD

9/24/2011 03:05:01 am

I just got back from posting my review on Amazon. Five star of course. It's my first book review I've ever written so I hope I did ok. And I hope that damn troll Audrey doesn't post on it like she does on everyone elses.

But while I was over there, I looked at a couple of the one star reviews. Almost all, about 10 of them, aren't even book reviews. Figures. Many are citing Brightbarf's site and supposed hoax. Anyway, I had some fun while I was over there, heckling them <evil grin>. If ya wanna blow off some steam, there's some real idiots over there that could use a good tongue lashing :)

emrysa

9/24/2011 03:07:06 am

love the steely dan reference.

sorry to see your blog has now become infected with the fictional writers posts and the multiple names that it uses to drum up support for itself. it's so textbook - it has happened before. when people start doubting it on one blog, it moves on to another.

anyone who automatically believes a person when they say "I am posting from x location" should do some research on proxy servers.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 03:16:15 am

V-A: Wow! You talked to one of the fake Anastasias. My grandmother visited Rasputin in Moscow when she was a teen and he was just a dirty fortune-teller who people went to see for a laugh. Didn't cost much. She could not remember what he told her re her fortune.

Yes, I read that DNA supported that Sally Hemmings gave birth to multiple Thos Jefferson's children. A bio of that story stated that it was common knowledge at the time, and visitors noted the light-skinned children. (So here we are, speaking again about "looks like," but in that case too, the "looks like," although pointing to the truth, was always doubted by those who wished to -- until the DNA confirmed all after hundreds of yrs.

What is more shocking to me about Hemmings is that she was the half-sister of Jefferson's first wife, who died. Same (white) father. But one was a wife and the other a slave. All her life. Words fail me.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 03:24:45 am

@Viola-Alex - Wow! You do some of your best thinking early in the morning ..... I am applauding you. We're in the middle of something historic and we aren't going to know how it all plays out or what it means in an instant .... but, I too, dream of a female Shakespeare to make sense of it in the end.

Re: anon238. I don't get, those of you making demands of and looking this gift horse in the mouth, I just don't get it. You don't know what her circumstances are, you don't know what's at stake for her and she doesn't have to hop to your demands. I have a theory too .... here it is:

Sarah will go down .... but life is ironic, unpredictable and operates on it's own time schedule. She'll go down .... maybe from all the crap that's being piled on her now, maybe from her own stupidity, maybe from a whistleblower, but being the ironic old cus that it is (life), it could just as easily be something that no one could have ever seen coming.

Meanwhile, anon238 owes me nothing ..... it's her life and her choice and I'm enjoying the heck out of her posts.

Billy in Baltimore

9/24/2011 03:32:16 am

@Lilly Lily
Don't know Neo. Good to be here and love this community.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 03:36:26 am

Gryphen has a new post up.

A married peoples dating site for those who want to add spice in their lives with other willing partners has offered the Palin couple $1,000,000 to prove by lie detector tests that they are indeed the biological parents of Trig.

Interesting?

Tom link

9/24/2011 03:40:16 am

From that email here's an example of what might be nitpicked. Now this isn't earth shattering and we've heard this before except in this case we need to consider who it comes from, though it's a person I don't know, I do know what else is in the email and I know who the email's recipient is by way of his wife, a friend of over 40 years (long sentence I know). The question was posed to the emailer as to how these candidates with so much baggage think they can get away with it, a very pertinent question to us.

"Knowing McCain, the choice was pure impulse."

Contrarians will be dissatisfied, wanting, "McCain told me it was pure impulse."

Conspiracy buffs will discount the 'pure impulse' description saying the guy knew the truth, all the Paxson fundie stuff, but wasn't gonna tell his buddy or if the guy believed that 'Knowing McCain, it was pure impulse.' then he really didn't know McCain because no way was it pure impulse, a deal was struck with the devil.

See what I mean? I read the sentence, 'Knowing McCain, it was pure impulse.' as the guy has known McCain for a long time and that's just the sort of thing he would do.

Karen

9/24/2011 03:40:23 am

MeAgain addressing the issue of why Sarah would allow he or she and the insider to remain in the loop. It sounds like there is much to learn.:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:01AM,

As I've said multiple times, it does not bother me if people are skeptical or don't believe me. I believe at least one person will be able to put one or more pieces of information I have provided to good use in fleshing out or filling in gaps concerning the lies, hypocrisy, and ultimate deception (Trig) of Sarah Palin. And once more for the record...that is JUST FINE with me.

But if you're going to disbelieve me, I urge you to do so for a legitimate reason- you don't trust "anonymous" sources, for instance. Your saying the Palins would "cut my heart out" rather than "let me" post here is very faulty.

It assumes you know everything when you simply do not.

As I said when I first started posting, Sarah knows she cannot do anything to stop me from posting here because of certain things I know about which she knows I would bot hesitate to publish if she tried to bully me into silence. I ALSO had told everyone that for reasons I could not go into at this time, my "source" in the Palin circle also has major "insurance policies" regarding the Palins. Once there are no more secrets to be kept and innocents to protect, certain things will become much clearer.

It's just like Levi not being truthful in his book. It seems maddening that he would STILL protect this wretched "family". But he is. And he has reasons to do so. They may not be clear at the moment but one day they WILL BE.

I just urge you not to assume you know everything about this situation. I promise...you do not. I would say I know a lot more than the average person and I still don't know SO much about the Palin mythology.

ProchoiceGrandma,
Regarding the Go Red event. I know there was an email which referenced something like "no more loose ends on that right"...and I think it was from august or september 2008. I am doing family stuff today but am going to finish going through the emails tonight and if I saved it, I'll get you the exact date and contents. I believe it was sent by Todd but I would have to check to be positive.

-MeAgain

9:01 AM

V ictoria link

9/24/2011 03:49:24 am

What I find interesting - if Anon Meagain is to be believed - the Palins seem almost surprised that they have gotten away with so much. At least Todd seems surprised; Sarah seems (ir)rationally confident (I'm not sure that she's irrational as she's succeeded for so long).

But it means that although they obviously have some protection in the media, they are by no means confident that they have absolute protection. Which is good for us.

Jolene

9/24/2011 03:50:38 am

Melly, thanks for the "tight abs" video link. I've seen it couple of times on other blogs. That lying, sing-songy voice of hers sounds exactly like some kid with her hand caught in the cookie jar, making up a story as she goes along. It seems Palin's entire life is a "wild ride." And like Viola-Alex, I hope someone someday does a real study of the woman, after she's exposed as the utter fraud she is.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 03:53:31 am

@Tom - Glad you decided to put that out there after all. Your point is well made - it's all subjective - we are going to read into it what we want to see.

So I'll play the game and add my own slant:

"Knowing McCain, the choice was pure impulse (and vindictiveness)"

lilly lily

9/24/2011 03:55:01 am

Joe will be at Firedoglake Book store with Phil Munger between 2 to 4 if you want to aak him questions?

Also a reviewer says don't buy he book but read pages 137 -142. Her security guard Trooper Gary Wheelers words are chilling. "no mama grizzly, she is a rabid wolf. Take a look at the snow, wherever she's been there's a trail of blood in her wake."

Nice sum up of la Palin pit bull with lipstick.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 03:57:36 am

Looking a gift horse in the mouth: If we were at a family party, and everyone brings a gift, sure. We would not want to disparage anyone's gift, even if it was a poor gift, a poor choice, of little value, inappropriate. We would care about the feelings of the gift-giver and our continuing relationship with that person and not about the gift itself.

But this is not that kind of a party. I think we are trying to get somewhere. Our goal is not to get along and be sweet to each other, although polite discourse seems to be valued by all here, incl me, mainly (for me) because it is way more informative.

As in any discussion of issues, it is important to determine the validity and importance of various points, not just say "she's so sweet, so we'll let her denial of climate change go uncontested." Or, "We want everyone to contribute to the discussion, so it's okay to lie, bring up points that can't be substantiated, or that you are not willing to support later." "We don't want to scare you off, so we will treat all contributions equally, even if they don't meet the criteria of validity or significance."

If anon238 proves to be an imposter, I will not have enjoyed the posts. If she fails to deliver anything of importance, ditto. This is not a game where it's the volleying that is the point.

From the sound of anon238, she does not seem to be a weak creampuff who withers at questions or wilts under scrutiny. Good! I didn't think Tom was either. I sure greeted his "Help! I am at a baby shower!" post with a huge laugh and agreement. So I maintain we can disclose our various viewpoints re credibility and significance.

Let's not do the false equivalency thing of equal time for the dissenting 1% who have nutty views. Like the press does for climate-change deniers, or Holocaust-deniers, or the flat-earth society (in times past). My preference is to move forward faster and as rigorously as we can. Just my opinion.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 04:00:25 am

@V ictoria - Wouldn't be at all surprised that "getting away with it all" wasn't how "Lamestream Media" was derived. She's taunting them, "look at me, you fools, look at what I can do right under your noses." Just another form of projection.

Conscious at last!

9/24/2011 04:00:51 am

I want to share a story that I heard many years ago:

During WWII, the Dutch Partisans were holding one of their clandestine meetings.
(The Partisans were a decentralized civilian-based network of resistance fighters against the Nazis-- in the Nazi-occupied nations.) The leadership of this Dutch group had recently learned that there was a traitor amongst them, but they didn't know who it was. Their work was crucial to the war effort-- they had to keep up the fight. So what they did was begin every meeting or communication with a simple statement--"We know there is a traitor here. We will continue on."

Karen

9/24/2011 04:07:02 am

@Tom, pure impulse and purely reckless. What a patriot.

Jolene & Melly, I had been skeptical about the Trig story but leaning toward the likelihood of it being a ridiculous hoax for a long time. When Laura started her blog everyone began talking about what it was that informed them that this was indeed utter bullshit. That was around the time I became fully convinced.

My second pregnancy very nearly took place in my husband's suv, an Isuzu Rodeo. We lived in the mountains more than 2 hours from the hospital and I was only in labor about 2 hours before we started for the hospital. I was in the back seat writhing and moaning and making him pull over for frequent false-alarm bathroom breaks because I HAD TO pee. Because I was in the back of the car, I could see myself in the rear-view mirror. Let's just say I wouldn't want to share that lovely sight of the miracle of labor with an airplane full of people.

When we got to the hospital I quite literally refused to get out of the truck because I had been pushing for about 15 minutes and couldn't help it. Luckily, a well-placed elbow kept the baby from being delivered in the Isuzu. I eventually made it to the birthing room and the poor little sweetie was delivered 8 minutes later. After the charge nurse delivered her (her first time "catching" as there was no time for a doctor, even a GP like CBJ), she looked at me and said, "So, honey, what's your name?" I simply cannot imagine anyone purposefully choosing to chance having this encounter in an airport VIP lounge, at airport security, in the air or on a dark, snowy road to Wasilla.

(@Tom, oy! Another baby shower just sprung up on you.)

Conscious at last!

9/24/2011 04:17:26 am

... and to avoid any ambiguity about my story above... I trust Anon 238's voice.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 04:17:44 am

@Ottoline - Our major difference on the subject of anon238 appears to be this:

I don't find anything she has said so far to be nutty. When I first encountered anon238's comments my instinct and intuition (which has served me right these many years) screamed, YES, this person is genuine. By the way, that was the same instinct that put the fear of god in me the moment Sarah opened her mouth on that stage and sent me running to the internet.

No false equivalency involved, I say give her a welcome place because she's got something valid to say. Subjective? Of course.

And finally, I was not aware that this blog or any other had been charged with the responsibility of bringing Sarah down. That would be a pretty big assignment, and I for one feel absolutely unqualified for the task.

Karen

9/24/2011 04:18:39 am

@Ottoline, I think it is totally fair to not want to be deceived by people on this forum and others and no one wants someone to just come and blow sunshine up our asses. But it did sound like more people were making demands about how, when and what kind of information MeAgain shared in order for him or her to be considered legitimate and welcomed in this arena.

People have been hounded off the boards in the past who probably had a lot more to say that we would have found useful and instructive. I would hate to see that happen if it proves that this is a good source, as I believe it is.

I can imagine making the decision to step out of the shadows of the Palins is a scary one to make. A lot like going to HR against a crazy boss, which I have done on two occasions. How much simpler to keep your head down and go along to get along like so many others in her circle.

I think that we should acknowledge that since we have the expectation that the truth is revealed, we have the responsibility to stand up for the people who step up to the plate.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 04:24:25 am

Tom -- Thx for that post. To me it illustrates the difference between fact and opinion. It is a fact that McCain allowed SP to be chosen. Why? Only McCain knows that. He might tell us someday, and it might be the truth or it might not be, with a big dose of self-serving crapola mixed in (I vote for the latter). Others can and will opine, with varying degrees of credibility to various audiences.

I'd like to note that this is a distinction that McG chose to blur deliberately in his Ted Kennedy book. As I've said before, McG tells us what TK knew, thought, hoped -- all of which is unknowable to McG. It is only McG's speculation. Speculation based on reading lots of other speculation. He could say "X says he thinks TK thought . . . ." But that would mean attribution of the source, and McG on purpose did not do that in the TK book and also not in the Palin book (because of the retribution factor). I don't quibble with it in the Palin book, but I do in the TK book. Makes it entertainment rather than history and far less interesting to me.

And that's also why the Palin motivation piece no longer interests me as much. Our take on it is necessarily subjective rather than fact-based. It can never be fact. It will never prove/disprove anything.

And my goal now is not total understanding of Palin's motive or thinking, but just proving the BabyHoax, making the enablers/supporters accountable, removing Palin from the national discourse. More complete understanding, if it ever happens, will come later. IF it ever happens.

Tom link

9/24/2011 04:27:13 am

Let's try this one:

"Knowing McCain, the choice was pure impulse. During the campaign, his top aides, whom I've known for years made me take the oath of Omerta. But they unloaded almost daily about almost everything --from the clothes, the appearance of Trig, the Down syndrome baby, the surprise about Bristol's pregnancy, the ethics charges in Alaska, the whole bit."

We've read this in newspaper reports and in 'Game Change' but now I know it's true because of who the guy is and who he's writing to (BTW, neither of these two men are names you'd recognize but the one does appear in the media from time to time as a consultant). It also validates for me the other anonymous statements that the 'Game Change' writers used,e.g., "She doesn't know anything." Later on in the email the writer mentions something about Clinton that he doesn't know to be absolutely true, thbough he's certain it is and was "known to the punditry for years" (writer's words), but I believe it because a close relative of mine would know, but would never ever speak of it, but did make one comment to his brother which was passed to me. The comment was very telling.

Remember, this email was about baggage.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 04:35:05 am

I didn't say this or any other blog has been charged with anything. I just stated my own goals. I welcome your disagreement with them.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 04:37:30 am

LOL. looked at my rabid twitter right winger. She is waiting with baited breath for Sarah to declare. A week ago she offered her barely visited site for Sarah to declare.

The bots continue to have faith in and to believe in Tinkerbelle, they do, they do, they do.

aew

9/24/2011 05:08:48 am

@ Viola-Alex: "It takes a woman, all powdered & pink, to joyously clean out, the drain in the sink..." Sorry, musical theater background. And you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. We women know she's BSing big time. I'd love to see Linda Ellerbee on this one.

Also, too, in addition, there was a psychologist who put out some interesting comments about Dubya Bush's particular pathology. Wonder what his take would be on Queen Esther.

re: Thomas Jefferson & Sally Hemmings. I'm also a genealogist and know one of her descendants. What the DNA showed was at least one son fathered by Thomas Jefferson, but evidence for the others only proved a Jefferson male. Speculation was it could have been one of his brothers or nephews. The Jefferson haplotype is fairly unique.

http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/report-research-committee-thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings

And it is true that Sally was the half sister of his wife, Martha. The story goes that Martha was somewhat sickly, and not completely disapproving of the arrangement. Think of the Bible story of Leah & Rachel, or Sarah & Hagar.

She also allegedly asked Thomas not to remarry after her death (as her father did). He honored her request.

btw, here in this part of the country, we're Southern by birth, and Virginian by the grace of God. VA Voter will know what I mean. ;)

Olivia

9/24/2011 05:10:28 am

The "tight abs" video clinched it for me and actually enraged me seeing her 8 year old smarty pants attitude thinking she was getting away with the lie. How on earth did someone not call her out publicly for this video alone?

lilly lily

9/24/2011 05:17:10 am

Sally was too young for any arrangement when Martha was alive. The affair may have started when she was a teen and sent over to France with his daughter. At that point she was a flibberjibbit.

She could have been free if she remained in France. Didn't have to return to the U.S. and slavery. Any slave in France was automatically free.

Sally was supposed to look like his deceased wife as they both had the same father. She also was supposed to be pretty.

aew

9/24/2011 05:17:51 am

re: John McCain

McNasty didn't earn his nickname due to his benevolence. Would take an aircraft carrier to move all his--oh, wait, it did.

Laura Novak link

9/24/2011 05:26:58 am

Speaking of Sally, Tom and ancestors...the dead skunk we found under the floorboards last weekend? Well, his ancestor seems to be rotting suddenly somewhere. All abatement efforts aside, the place stinks to high heaven again. Our team of brave souls is on its way over to help us strategize about what else to dig up. So, if I seem distracted.

I have thoughts on Joes' book so far. Will post on another comment box. For now, remember: respect for all (except skunks) and no apologies for typos.

P.S. The Hemmingses of Monticello is a stunning work of history and writing. I recommend it highly. And having visited the estate a few years ago, it was wonderful to read. Well, not wonderful, but fascinating. She was just a teenage girl whose entire family was intertwined with Master Jefferson's.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 05:31:07 am

Tom: your quote works for me. It fits with everything I have read and believe to be credible. Game Change. The New Yorker. My reading about McCain in action (like being angered by something trivial and calling his wife a cunt in front of several reporters, who then reported it [w/o using their names but it was vetted by some credible newspaper -- NYT?]).

I think what we are discussing here is how welcoming we should be to someone who sounds credible to many but has yet to offer us (or me, at least) anything we can use and is sure stringing it out. I call it like I see it; don't mean to chase anyone off at all. I hope others will do the same.

aew: I am not at all disapproving of the Hemmings/Jefferson bond. But I AM disapproving that with half-sisters one is a slave and the other is not. I do not understand Jefferson not freeing her and their children ASAP, in his lifetime, EARLY in his relationship with Hemmings. But this is OT. I guess we got on to it re the issue of what looks can tell us but that it does not constitute proof (even if true) -- or at least not enough proof to make a difference.

And so it is with SP: after immersing ourselves in this mess for 3 yrs, thinking at any minute that it would be over, here we still are. We have used intuition and observation, and we have arrived at conclusions that are congruent with the Mar 14 photo (and other photos) and with the rumors that originally came from Wasilla, not the blogs.

But we still do not have enough proof to satisfy skeptics. Just as the many folks who knew about Hemmings/Jefferson but were not believed into the DNA result came out.

Laura Novak link

9/24/2011 05:32:26 am

I'm not far into Joe's book. But I am reminded of how there were many times when I went out to cover a story, and realized that there was another story in front of me. So my "nut graf" changed. That is, I found I had another angle to cover or thesis to undertake.

I had the feeling that this might have been the case with Joe. Perhaps SP's reaction to him when he moved in changed the course of how he'd write the book. It set up another path all together and shifted the "voice" he planned to use to write about her.

Consider, without her over reaction and the craziness that ensued, that beginning would not have been as compelling.

I don't know, it just reminded me of when I've had to shift gears before about a story that I was fairy certain about until another event took it in a different direction.

sunnyskies

9/24/2011 05:37:27 am

I lament there is no Shakespeare in our time; there is so much material s/hs could mine! However I would not grace the Palin spectacle with a Shakespeare play, unless it was one of his more raunchy ones....

No, I see the Palins as a very...long...running...soap... If "Dark Shadows" hadn't already been taken I would go for that title.

One poster posited this idea re: just how far the Murdoch Empire has spread and who..and why...are "they" promoting or protecting Mrs. Todd Palin. Sounds too much like "X-Files" now.

Just for a little comic relief, An "Adams Family" version would be fun....

No, we just get their freakin "reality" as if....

lilly lily

9/24/2011 05:51:58 am

The Adams family was wholesome in comparison. Outside of pouring hot oil off the roof.

Morticia was based on one of the cartoonists wives, and she was a pip. Could have been one of Palins sisters in her machinations. She got the rights to Morticia and co.

Sharon_too_Also

9/24/2011 05:55:10 am

@Laura - Don't want to open the whole can of worms as to whether Joe should or should not have taken the opportunity to live next door to Sarah .... but you are certainly right about it giving him a good opening into the book. By provoking her in that way he managed to short cut his way right into their ugliness

Im in the camp that liked that he moved back and forth between his experience of the situation and Sarahs' pathology - straight shots of that pathology would have burned me out and it gave the reader a chance to digest what you've just encountered before going on to a new piece of nastiness. He is a good writer and he knows how to keep that reader engaged.

Laura Novak link

9/24/2011 05:55:59 am

Let me understand this correctly: She had this baby on the toilet and then the entire Duggar family touched the baby visited with it. Um, okay.

http://sarahpalinhasaserpentsheart.blogspot.com/2011/09/anna-duggar-and-sarah-palins.html

Viola-Alex

9/24/2011 06:00:59 am

@Laura - I agree completely. I believe (but only surmise) that Joe thought he could get inside, just like he did with MacDonald, his family and friends. That being a neighbor would be a plus. (Had he been reading the blogs like us, he'd have known that tweren't gonna happen) Settling for what he had and not really making it something new and better, I believe, led to a half-hearted book.

@ aew - I'd love to know where those lyrics are from!

Also, my first husband is a Virginian, as are both my children. Living there for 14 years never made me one nor did a degree from UVa; but then again, nothing would have made me one, since I'm the devil's own, a Texan.

The Hemmingses' debate is an interesting one here. Even with the DNA proof of a Jefferson male, I believe there are Jefferson descendants who refuse to believe or acknowledge the information. Time will take care of them. For some, nothing is enough.

nancydrewed link

9/24/2011 06:15:25 am

I'm about a third of the way through the book and not skipping ahead. As a fast reader, with most anything else, Id have been through it by now. But, truly. I can spend only so much time with this sickening story at any one sitting. I feel like I've been slumming. And frankly, as I've said in the past, my compassion for her children grows. The revulsion for their parents, however, is testing my limits. And again, the sins of the father... it appears the elder Heaths have earned this scrutiny.

If there is a tone of weariness that comes through in Joe's writing, it would be understandable. He's the only seasoned journalist who chose to look under all the rocks and report on what he found. The state of journalism as it stands today must have left him in some sad and angry disbelief.

@Tom -- We've a friend who was a pilot with McCain at Subic Bay (sp?) in the Philippines. He would agree with your emailer about the impulsiveness of that decision. Once a reckless hotdog, always a reckless hotdog. Maverick, my a**.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 06:16:26 am

No, some refuse to accept it. Claim they were his brothers children by Sally.

As far as Charles Addams second wife, Barbara Barb, the model for Morticia, she had him sign over the rights to the Addams family cartoons. Made a fortune. Very controlling woman, strange. They divorced after a few bizarre years, and she later married a Baron.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 06:22:10 am

Personally I thought Joe moving next door was a poor decision.

Perhaps he thought he could charm his way into anyones trust after McDonald. Maybe he can, but to imagine he would get into that very paranoid families good graces was ridiculous .

She might well have fed him a damaging dose of toxic mushrooms, except she can't cook.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 06:24:12 am

Laura: Re McG changing gears on the topic of his book. I have seen him say so explicitly at least three times on video. He came to write about AK, as a sort of update of his earlier book, and started researching SP because she was the gov, and then the twin things of being surprised by what he found out about SP, plus her being picked as VP candidate made him change the focus of his book.

FrostyAK

9/24/2011 06:27:44 am

We all have slightly different agendas in our endeavors to take $P out of the political spotlight. Those differences do not make any of us 'less' than another.

Whatever information is provided can be gone over with a fine tooth comb, or rejected. WITHOUT over-analyzing or rejecting the contributor.

That said, any information ANYone is willing to divulge is valuable, to one or another of us following the story. If you don't like the content of a particular post, then skip it/ignore it.

If you want a direct route to the end, then put up a website with all the Babygate information YOU think is pertinent. I have been suggesting someone/anyone do that for a while now, and seems no one has done so. I am no longer able to build websites, or I would do it myself.

Believe me, I am as frustrated (maybe more so)as anyone here, that the Nightmare from Wasilla has not ended.

I do have a polite question for anon/meagain: Why did you not volunteer this info to McG for inclusion in his book? Or maybe you were a source?

9/24/2011 06:28:49 am

Humble apologies, but the skunk update made me laugh. What can I say: you do have a way with words.
But, condolences!

comeonpeople

9/24/2011 06:30:11 am

@Jolene:
You are so right. All it would take to seal the deal on the babygate hoax is if some news show would show the Elan Frank tight abs video over and over so alot of women could see it. Lightening up the color so that spongebob squarepillow outline could show would be so much icing on the cake .

@Ottoline: as a young girl I was fascinated with Nicholas and Alexandra and the children and their brutal murder. I read all the books I could find about them. As I grew up I continued as new books were published. I was fascinated about hemophilia and how the son Alexis they waited so long for suffered.It was intriguing to learn how Alexandra tried desperately to cure him and the role Rasputin played in that. I care today for some children with hemophilia and think about how so much has changed for them over the years. Later I moved on to reading about the Anastasia imposters and was equally fascinated. When the graves were found and DNA testing was done, I felt closure but was sort of sad that they all really died, if that makes any sense. Thanks for bringing back a memory for me about my study of this subject.

@LilyLily: the $1 million reward is for the Palins to prove their fidelity to each other, not the TRi-G parentage, I'm pretty sure that is what I read over at IM.

Karen

9/24/2011 06:39:02 am

FYI: The ghostwriters of Levi's book "Deer in the Headlights," Lois and James Cowan, are doing a live Q&A blog on politicalgates @ 5PM EST (about 20 minutes).

http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/09/open-question-and-answers-session-with.html#disqus_thread

lillylily

9/24/2011 06:42:36 am

All posting while they are being interviewed will vanish, so if you want to post your questions do so right now.

Karen

9/24/2011 06:46:30 am

@lilly,
All unrelated postings will be deleted. Questions of the ghostwriters only are requested between 5-6 pm.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 07:18:28 am

comeonpeople: I've always been interested in the Romanov family and their death. A sidenote you might like: in a recent book of photos of the family's last days, I was sure I saw an all-black Cavalier King Charles Spaniel in the arms of one of the girls. This made sense to me because of the big-time English ties of the family. Jimmy was the dog's name. I am interested in that breed, and I edited a thread on Wiki about famous Cavalier King Charles Spaniels to include Jimmy. And only a few days later it had been removed, with the comment that the breed had not been re-invented until a few years later (from King Charles Spaniel, a smaller, curlier variant with a pushed-in nose, to the current-day look of Cavs, which is what Cocker Spaniels used to look like, or what Lady in "Lady and the Tramp" looked like). Well, the person who corrected me was right. And my faith in Wikipedia was strengthened.

Jimmy, by the way, had a role in the Romanovs' history. Some time after the family's death, one of the pits they were thought to have been tossed into was undug, and sure enough they were there, with Jimmy on top. But Jimmy's little body was in a noticeably less decomposed state than that the family, which led to the conclusion that Jimmy had survived the family by some days or weeks and had later been killed and tossed atop the Romanovs' bodies when the bodies were moved to a different pit. Pretty grisly. (But nothing compared to the suffering of multiple millions under communism, Stalin, and the Siberian prison camps.)

Tom link

9/24/2011 07:34:22 am

Yeah, Laura, Joe, like you, said he writes what is nin front of him. He expressed this a few times as Otto said, but recently to Weigel in an email.

Joe's moving next door, as he describes the series of events, almost sounds inevitable, especially how SP's vile reaction played right into his hands. Joe said he'd do it again (move next door).

These Palins are being squeezed right now and I just wish that we could all be there to witness the suffering. Terrible, huh. It wasn't until sometime in the mid-80s that I came across the word 'schadenfreude' in a hysterical article by Joe Queenan in GQ. I fell in love with the word and passed it on to my smart (and smartass) friends. The word caught on so much so that maybe even SP knows what it means. Not only does SP experience schadenfreude and delight in it, she causes the suffering that makes it possible.

If I can somehow find (doubtful) that Joe Queenan piece I'll link it--very funny.

@ottoline, nancydrewed, everyone really--I suggest that you read an essay by essayist, novelist ('Infinite Jest), genius David Foster Wallace about the 2000 McCain campaign. It's in one of his books of essays, either 'Consider the Lobster' or 'A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again.' Wallace had (he's dead)unparrelled observational skills and mags like Harper's would send him do report on events, things that he'd never experience on his own--enter the 2000 McCain campaign. Pertinent to our discussion is how Wallace (I repeat, a brilliant, brilliant man) observed that, after unexpectedly winning in NH, McCain and team started to soften, an unmaverickization if you don't mind, in order to best serve themselves, expediency. This observation of McCain and his people was the reason, said Wallace, that he lost respect for McCainand his lot.

nancydrewed link

9/24/2011 08:27:10 am

@Tom -- thanks for the David Foster Wallace recommendation. He had been been on my list of younger authors I have intended to read but haven't yet. Here's an obit from the Economist with your links (and some others):

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/09/david_foster_wallace_on_john_m

Ottoline

9/24/2011 09:25:58 am

Tom -- Thx for the Wallace cites. I remember the Lobster piece in Gourmet mag. Controversial in that tiny ingrown world. "Unmaverickization" LOL ranks right up there with overcomplexificationizing.

9/24/2011 09:29:31 am

@rubbernecking. Frank Bailey had emails that were sent to him. Even then, lawyers did not let him publish all of them. Anon238 has emails that were sent to someone else who then forwarded them to her. That's a different legal issue. She is wise to get advice before she acts.

Ivyfree

9/24/2011 09:32:06 am

I'd be fine if Joe McGinniss deliberately planned to live next door to Sarah Palin. I don't think he did, but if he did, so what? He's an author. He's writing a book. He rents a house. It's not illegal! But Sarah's ignorance and psychopathy made it into a huge issue and I think she probably still feels victimized by him.

WRT Anon238/meagain- she sounds authentic to me. She sounds like somebody who knows what she's talking about. I hope she continues posting, because I think she's probably driving Sarah entirely nuts- and for Sarah, that's a short trip.

Bobcat Logic

9/24/2011 09:35:29 am

The last two chapters of "The Rogue" seemed the most important to me.

Meanwhile, over on IM someone is hypothesizing that Geoffrey "Jeff" Dunn is the mysterious "Fred" who is about to blow "Babygate" open with a new book.

Murrah Slaughter

9/24/2011 09:48:53 am

Hello, all. Anon 238 is back again on the IM Broomfield post. Floyd Orr asked her for an interview on her blog and she indicates that at some time in the future, she might do it! I have copied his comment to Anon and then her reply here.

Floyd M. Orr said:

Anonymous Me Again, I just want you to know that I fully respect what you are trying to accomplish here. Many of us have been on this battlefield for more than three years now and the madness seems to be infecting us all. I encourage you to feel free to contact me at any time in any manner you wish. You have an open invitation to participate in an anonymous interview on my blog. As many will tell you, I know how to keep a secret, even one many of these blog readers are anxious to know. If you have not read my book, I shall be glad to send you a copy. I post on the blogs under my real name, so you know how to find me anytime you wish. Thank you for all that you have done for the cause.

Then Anon replied:

Telah, thank you so much for your frequent defense of me and what I'm trying to do. There was a point where I really felt like I might have bitten off more than I could chew and wasn't sure I wanted to continue posting...but one of your generously kind hearted comments cheered me through that wall. So I truly thank you.

FLOYD ORR, the man himself...you know if it weren't for Gryphen, I think Sarah would talk about you more than any other blogger or writer! Someone sent her a passage of your book and she took to her bed for the weekend. So I'm guessing you did a pretty good job!

I am neck-deep in my perusal of two plus years of emails; the "good stuff" among it is what I am sending to Jesse. BUT...after that, I might consider doing an interview. I don't know that enough people are interested in me to make it worth your time...but I have found all this unburdening of things I've long felt should be public knowledge...very cathartic. I hadn't realized how the knowledge of some of Sarah's (and Todd and Bristol) wrongdoings was just poisoning me from the inside out. I was watching Sarah treat someone I care about SO badly and while I can't say (yet) exactly why that person is "stuck" dealing with Sarah for now...it was highly liberating to realize I could blow off some Palin manufactured steam by spilling my guts here. So that's the long version of...yes, I think an interview might be fun!

-MeAgain

9/24/2011 09:59:10 am

Anonymous said...
Oh, this is rich.

I've just this minute found out Sarah wants to mount a "major campaign" to discredit me. And her idea for that is to have her paid troll (the friend of Bristol's, whom Sarah doesn't even realize is sabotaging the whole thing by posting obviously ridiculous posts about how happy and strong the Palins are) to post even more.

And she wants to start a rumor that Laura Novak is only posting about Trig because she REALLY wants attention for her BOOK! I bet poor Laura spent more on licensing that photo than she has made on all her book sales put together.

We all know how Sarah could shut everyone up--it rhymes with schmerth lertificate and we ain't never gonna see Trig Palin's real one.

Sarah's next smear agenda (besides the continued paid troll posts) is to try and pay someone to say Joe tried to bully them into telling lies about her, etc. So far I don't think she's had too much interest.

Have you, Sarah?

Didn't think so.

-MeAgain

ginny11

9/24/2011 10:13:11 am

MeAgain just posted this over at IM:

Oh, this is rich.

I've just this minute found out Sarah wants to mount a "major campaign" to discredit me. And her idea for that is to have her paid troll (the friend of Bristol's, whom Sarah doesn't even realize is sabotaging the whole thing by posting obviously ridiculous posts about how happy and strong the Palins are) to post even more.

And she wants to start a rumor that Laura Novak is only posting about Trig because she REALLY wants attention for her BOOK! I bet poor Laura spent more on licensing that photo than she has made on all her book sales put together.

We all know how Sarah could shut everyone up--it rhymes with schmerth lertificate and we ain't never gonna see Trig Palin's real one.

Sarah's next smear agenda (besides the continued paid troll posts) is to try and pay someone to say Joe tried to bully them into telling lies about her, etc. So far I don't think she's had too much interest.

Have you, Sarah?

Didn't think so.

-MeAgain

LOL, SP seems to really fear Laura!

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 10:27:53 am

Murrah Slaughter, thank you for reposting my message to Anon. I love it that Sarah is having a hemorrhoid over my book! If she does contact me for that interview, I shall certainly let everyone here know. I would love to do an in-depth interview with Anon similar to the one I did with Bree Palin in the book.

Bobcat, Geoffrey is not Fred.

Has anyone found the video online of the McGinniss interview with Joy Behar? I think it was the biggest Babygate breakthrough to the MSM yet! I cannot BELIEVE no one is talking about it on the blogs.

Hint: McG sent an e-mail message to Gryphen 1/27/11. Who else in Alaska would have received that same message, either simultaneously or just a bit later, requesting the same information? Somebody we know did not get mad at McG until about three weeks after that message was sent. Somebody would also like to see the McGinniss Babygate story told to Behar disappear from the major media. Hmmmm....

Bill in Baltimore

9/24/2011 10:28:32 am

For the last 3 years all this babygate conversation was pretty much limited to few people.Now this conversation is exploding with more and more input from many sources.I welcome any and all,legit or fake.Lets keep this thing rolling...personally,I think Anon238 is legit and if not...well,what a gifted writer.

nancydrewed link

9/24/2011 10:43:56 am

@ginny11 -- She's afraid of Laura because Laura can smack down her bogus "report" of the premie-birth and all of its colorful embellishments. And I'd be guessing that CBJ, if she's still in touch with Mrs. Palin, is telling her just that. At some point, you'd think that since the Palin credibility is total toast, anyone who played a part in the entire charade who cares about their reputation, license to practice, sanity and future etc. would come clean. Aiding and abetting a fraud is not required by HIPAA, I'm quite sure.

And btw, the people in my doctor's office have been to "clarification conferences" about the use of HIPAA, because it was being over-interpreted by too many medical personnel. otoh, when I went in for a mammogram recently, with orders from my GYN, I had to provide picture ID. Newest wrinkle brought to us by the bureaucracy. Sarah could be in some real trouble in the future. No switcheroo possibilities, no more. ;-) Not gonna get any picture ID without a BC. Uh-oh.

Bobcat Logic

9/24/2011 10:45:07 am

@ Floyd

Thanks for setting me straight on the "Fred" thing.

Do you know who Fred is at this point? Or just who it isn't?

Good luck with Anon! I hope you are in touch soon.

Tom link

9/24/2011 10:46:03 am

Forgive me but what's with the Firedoglake Salon interview with Joe? What is it? (Okay, I know it's an interview). Where do you access it? And most importantly, will they be discussing who Trig and Tripp look like? Don't wanna miss that.

@Floyd-- So who's the tease now? Since I'm coining words today how about stop being so crypticious. Spit it out. Who got mad at Joe and tried to put a plug in his--it?

Ottoline

9/24/2011 10:49:32 am

Floyd -- Do you mean this Behar/McG interview:

http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2011/09/22/joy-behar-asks-mcginniss-if-he-has-death-wish-writing-book-about-palins

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the importance of it. Can you explain a little more?

nancydrewed link

9/24/2011 10:54:25 am

Forgot to add -- Mrs. Palin is also afraid of Laura because Laura is the "rill dill". A journalist mom with brains, tenacity, decency and wit. Also, some nice "friends".

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 10:55:17 am

Tom, most of us here know who the participants in the blog wars are. Wasn't there something about a leaked manuscript a while back?

Bobcat, yes, I know who Fred is, but unlike certain blog warriors mentioned above, I can keep a secret. Also too, if a fellow author wants to remain anonymous for now, I respect his wishes and I am not going to out him.

Bobcat Logic

9/24/2011 11:00:49 am

@ Floyd

Thanks! It's good you are honoring this person's wishes.

I'm interested in knowing who it is, but have waited this long...so what's a week or so more?

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 11:03:14 am

Ottoline, yes, that is the same interview, but this is only a small portion of it. That clip and transcript can be found on a number of right-wing sites, but they all display only that one-minute portion. The entire interview was much longer and Babygate was discussed in the last segment in a more explicit and honest manner on national television than at any time in the entire past three years! Kudos to Joy and McG. Even though she did challenge him a bit, he stood his ground!

Karen

9/24/2011 11:07:54 am

"And most importantly, will they be discussing who Trig and Tripp look like? Don't wanna miss that."

@Tom, since I see you can't find Firedoglake's interview and exciting discussion of who Trig and Tripp looks like, I think we should accommodate your interest on family resemblences here. ... smartypants.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 11:11:34 am

@Floyd - Naughty, naughty, teasing us with blind items.

Re: IM's latest - looks like there will be a Babygate website up in a couple of weeks. Might not have to wait that long ......

Re: anon238, Me again - Looks like Sarah is starting to panic. If She tries to discredit anon all she will succeed in doing is sending more traffic to IM and Laura .... where the ignorant can joyfully become enlightened.

Re: Skunks - somethings rotten in Wasilla and the odor is spreading.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 11:13:28 am

Thx, Floyd. Does anyone have a link to the long version?

Tom link

9/24/2011 11:18:52 am

Floyd, yeah, I know about AKM, Morris etc. Thought maybe you had a new name though I do rercall you bingo-ing the Mudflats crew awhile back. Thanks anyway.

Nancydrewed, if you're gonna start with Wallace I suggest you begin with the two books of essays I noted above. They are very accessible (in the comprehension sense). Next I would go to his short stuff like you'd find in "Interviews With Hideous Men'. His novel 'Infinite Jest' is very difficult, as he intended. I've not finished it. Focus is really necessary.

Wallace gave a commencement speech for the 2005 class of Kenyon College. It was transcribed on placed on the Internet. The speech became so popular and linked and sent so much that Little, Brown, his publisher, copyrighted it and published it as a teeny little book called 'This is Water'--one sentence per page. So it's not on the Internet anymore but I may have it tucked away and I do have the hard copy in anyone's interested. Sorry, but I could go on and on about DFW.

NSG

9/24/2011 11:32:44 am

What a delightful Saturday evening. Something in the air signals change, and it ain't just the seasons!

Reading everyone's reactions to Joe's book, updates about Fred, Anon238/ MeAgain's latest, and everyone else's excitement and contributions -- it's really brewing now, isn't it?

So in my buoyed state, I was inspired to visit SP's Facebook page. (It's C4P for wimps -- I can't stomach that mess.) The happy little bots are all "Run Sarah Run" as always. Although there was one comment with an odd reference to hiring her, and they'll show her resume with a birth certificate -- hmmmmm??? Will have to check back. :)

But this one really struck me: "Sarah, you are one of the most precious people I have ever known.I have just read your book AMERICA BY HEART. It is the truest books I have ever read. It reverberates every bit of me. I surely wish I could meet you in person. Keep up the good work and GOD BLESS YOU in every way. If only the world realized the greatness and goodness of a loving GOD as people like you and I do." (sic -- all of it)

Oy. It's just painful to think that there are people who are sooooo, um, misguided.

Well, on this delightful evening, I'm appreciative for all the curiosity and wisdom here -- it's a positive indicator!

Ottoline

9/24/2011 11:32:55 am

So Floyd is it this View interview?

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/09/joe-mcginniss-discusses-babygate-on.html

Or do you have a link to what you mean? I'm just trying to understand you.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 11:42:38 am

I feel as if I have been sitting in the eye of a hurricane for the past three years!

Ottoline, no, that is the interview from 10 a.m. Wednesday morning. The one I am speaking of happened at 9:32 p.m. Wednesday night. Notice that the interview I am speaking of has not been mentioned at IM since it aired. Common sense would have dictated that it should have been the very next post after the link you mentioned. After all, it was Babygate actually being discussed rationally for the first time on national television! I am trying to tell you all something without being shot as the messenger. The events, or lack of events, I am referring to here are probably not coincidence!

9/24/2011 11:45:07 am

Jolene, I'm one of those people who took one look at Palin and knew she was a total fraud. In my case it's an uncanny resemblance to a NPD Queen who could be Palin's separated-at-birth twin, who has been the bane of my professional existence for a long time. I'm sure I feel like I know Palin better than I do, but I can tell you that you hit the nail on the head: it's a major hallmark of the NPD pathology that these individuals lie as casually as they breathe. Reality on their planet is whatever suits their purpose at that moment. They're charismatic and not the brightest bulbs in the drawer, and they mostly believe their own fictions, so they can be very convincing. I'm convinced there is an underlying fragility to it all: at some level they are deeply insecure, in particular if anyone dare poke at their house of cards. The NPD Queen I know is the most vindictive human being I've ever met: threaten the queen, off with your head. Not pretty.
I also feel like I understand where MeAgain is coming from in wanting to reveal Palin for the malignant pathological nutcase that she is.

PS. I think MeAgain is both legit and a very gifted writer. Just like Laura. Just like Gryph.

rubbernecking

9/24/2011 11:46:58 am

Anon238 chose IM for his/her posts. Anon238 can post 500 times a day on IM and I will never notice, never comment, never care.

I have never interfered with Anon238 on his/her chosen blog. When people paste his/her solioqies here, I comment on them when they seem untrue or ridiculous to me.

If Laura had an open thread for the fans of Anon238, I would very happily stay out of it. I don't see Anon238 providing any useful information on the birth hoax. I have zero interest in the other Palin gossip. Zero.

Thursday on IM, Anon238 felt it necessary to direct a "Bristol's fave hand gesture" to my moniker on Laura's blog. But today's he/she is singing a new tune: "I welcome skeptics and don't mind them at all; what I minded was the person who said I hadn't provided "anything new". Are you kidding me?

Anon238 doesn't even like skeptics on *other* blogs! This person makes rude and hostile gestures to skeptics.

I've pushed back on the Anon238 info like I pushed back on all other claims I where I see no proof or contradictory proof. Anon238 refuses to provide proof of anything. His/her alleged Palin quotes are not believable.

I have never interfered with Anon238 on IM. But Anon238 chose to interfere with my posting on Laura's blog.

I wonder why.

Tom link

9/24/2011 11:47:19 am

Floyd, no one here is gonna shoot you, messenger or otherwise.

NSG

9/24/2011 11:47:31 am

@Tom, unless I overlooked it, I don't think you got an answer about the Firedoglake interview with McGinniss.

FDL hosts regular "Book Salons" with authors of books of interest to their audience. It's a live event on a blog, commenters post questions, and the author responds in the comments.

Joe & The Rogue will be featured tomorrow, (Sun 9/25) beginning at 2pm Pacific time. I think it usually runs an hour or so, depending on the author's availability.

They limit that thread to book-related comments & questions, and you have to be a registered user to comment/ask.

I'm going to try to dust off my old FDL login and participate. I hope others who are well-versed will also be there. Seems to me there's a risk of people who haven't read the book and aren't informed will focus on his house rental, all the reasons they think Palin is a waste of attention, yadda yadda yadda.

Personally, I think we can all really help by reminding this particularly vocal and active audience that this is only partly about Palin -- it's really about the failure of our journalists & political system. Something Firepups usually can get behind!

mxm

9/24/2011 12:03:53 pm

Floyd, you are mistaken that there was no mention of the Behar HLN interview over on IM. The next morning, Gryphen almost pleaded with his readers to help him locate a copy of the interview.

Things moved very fast this last week and are moving faster yet this weekend, I see no deep mystery.

Tom link

9/24/2011 12:08:39 pm

NSG, thank you.

Here's the transcript of the Behar interviews with Levi and Joe. I don't know if it includes what Floyd's referencing. I didn't see anything different.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/21/joy.01.html

Tom link

9/24/2011 12:13:19 pm

NSG, thank you.
Here's the transcript of the Levi and Joe interviews with Behar. Didn't see anything different. Got weebled first time.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/21/joy.01.html

Ottoline

9/24/2011 12:13:43 pm

Floyd -- I don't understand your comment about being shot as the messenger. I have no wish to shoot you or for you to be offended. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. Now I see that you are referring to that specific interview. Do you have a link to it? Or can you recap what made it more important than the View
interview?

Ottoline

9/24/2011 12:15:36 pm

Floyd, you said "I am trying to tell you all something without being shot as the messenger. The events, or lack of events, I am referring to here are probably not coincidence!"

So what are you trying to tell us? Could you just tell us? Why all this complexity.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 12:16:09 pm

Anybody interested in a little O/T? How about this headline at TPM:

Cain Beats Perry In Florida Straw Poll Upset

Think Sarah will see that as a sign from god?

curiouser

9/24/2011 12:16:19 pm

Ottoline - Here ya go for the full Joy Behar show transcript for that night. Joe was the 3rd guest so you'll need to scroll pretty far down the page. The Joy Behar show puts up brief video clips for each guest...but nothing for Joe.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/21/joy.01.html

Floyd, You've confused me. Babygate was discussed that morning on The View with none other than Barbara Walters bringing it up and appearing interested.

Everyone - Thanks for the interesting discussions today.

Laura - The skunk invasion might make for a comical scene in a book but must be pure hell to live with it. I hope the happy ending comes quickly.

NSG

9/24/2011 12:33:21 pm

@Sharon_Too_Also, re Cain's win and Sarah seeing it as a sign?

Well, when I sneaked over to her Facebook page to listen in, some of the bots sure did. One guy said the Cain votes were votes for "none of the above," which of course means SP is needed.

I have to say that their level of delusion is breathtaking. One of those that would be funny if not so frightening!

Venefica

9/24/2011 12:38:24 pm

Just thought I'd cross-post here a comment I left for "MeAgain" at Gryphen's in the ancient "Broomfield" thread:

Thanks for your continuing comments, MeAgain!

I wonder if you have any information from the emails or from your source about Trig's participation in the Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend.

From what you've written, the Palins have some concerns about Trig's birth certificate. Eligibility for the PFD requires, at minimum, the submission of an original birth certificate, passport, or naturalization certificate (http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/faqs/index.aspx).

Trig Palin has been listed on the PFD rolls since 2009. (http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/applicantinfo/index.aspx).

We may therefore assume that either:

1) Trig's actual, legal birth certificate, with a date other than 4/18/08 and named parent(s) other than Sarah and Todd Palin, was submitted to the Permanent Fund Dividend Division (PFDD) on his behalf; or

2) a falsified birth certificate, with the 4/18/08 date and Sarah and Todd's names, was submitted to the PFDD on his behalf.

If #1 is the case, then various PFDD employees would likely have knowledge of the pregnancy hoax, Trig's real birth date, Trig's real parents' names, etc.

Alternatively if #2 is the case, then fraud has been committed. Anyone submitting (and anyone knowingly accepting) the counterfeit documentation would be subject to criminal indictment and civil forefeitures and fines (http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/fraud/index.aspx). BTW, tips regarding potential PFD fraud may be reported online (http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/fraud/fraudreport/fraudreport.aspx).

It may be relevant that the Director of the PFDD is Sarah Palin's long-time friend Deborah Richter Bitney (http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/externallinks.aspx). Many of us here are aware that Debbie Bitney was also Sarah Palin's gubernatorial campaign treasurer, head of Sarah Palin's gubernatorial inaugural committee, and a former co-owner of the Palins' "tax-free" Safari Lake properties (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aLUlRcLKxIg4).

I raise the Trig-PFD-BC issue again because I feel very strongly that it could finally prove to be a key chink in Palin's teflon armor. I hope you can provide some information that will help move us forward on this!

[H/T to Blade at http://shesnohockeymom.blogspot.com for her extensive previous research on this subject.]

Viola-Alex

9/24/2011 12:43:34 pm

I leave my laptop for a few hours and all hell breaks loose. Hooray our side! Laura, are you sure those skunks weren't sent from Sarah?

Ottoline

9/24/2011 12:47:31 pm

Tom: thx!! for that great link to the transcript. I did see that video and Floyd is right, I can't find it now. So this transcript is terrific. I've noticed before that Joy's instincts are v good on this subject. A super interview, on the part of both of them.

And thx Floyd for bringing it to our attn. In my familiarity with it all, it slipped right by me that this discussion was a first in terms of candor and extended discussion.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 12:55:47 pm

@NSG - Well, we all know how good Sarah is at reading the signs :-) So she should be taking a good long look at how quickly Perry has been brought down. If she jumps into the game a new world record in political immolation could be made. Go for it Sarah.

Cyn

9/24/2011 01:00:05 pm

Joe will be on book tv c-span at 8pm PDT.

Tom link

9/24/2011 01:06:50 pm

@ottoline

What was so earth shattering in that interview transcript with Behar. I didn't notice anything but Floyd seems to have.

comeonpeople

9/24/2011 01:09:49 pm

@Laura,
What would you recommend as the best way to contact senior editor Tina Jordan from entertainment Weekly? She wrote a review of The rogue and only gave it a C-. She totally dissed Chapter 19 stating that "McGinnis lost me here". I want to help her "find" her way lol I thought I'd send her some pictures and ask her to read about the Wild Ride again . There is no email contact, just a general contact. Should I snail mail a letter addressed to her? Thanks.

SLQ

9/24/2011 01:10:50 pm

I'm fine with Joe renting the house next door, too. It's only because it's Sarah Palin that it's an issue. Anyone else would either have grumbled a bit and dealt with it, or hired an attorney to see what could be done. But noooo, Sarah had to make a federal case out of it. IMHO, it only helped the book. If it weren't for her overreaction, making Joe's name a household word, the publishers may not have been able to get him on the big shows.

Sheffield

9/24/2011 01:11:43 pm

One perspective on the arrival of Me Again_ everyone's somewhere on the continuum of tolerance for ambiguity.

Opportunities to increase tolerance: :)
~ we don't know who s/he is
~ we may never know
~ we have no way to confirm or disconfirm MA's source, if indeed one exists
~ we have almost no ability to assess validity of the info. For me, much is new, even though I've been following along for 2+ years.
~ the info fills in some holes, provides context, and brings the occasional “Aha!” However, different info might do the same, although it seems unlikely.

On this one, I'm handling the unknowns pretty well. Me Again, from your first sentence, my head/heart/gut/everywhere felt at home with who you seem to be, your info, and your communication style.

And I get it others want “proof.” Sometimes, nothing else will do for me, and I'm restless and maybe distrustful till I can nail it down, have it on letterhead, cross-check it four different ways – whatever it takes to get the ambiguity down to tolerable.

My heartfelt gratitude to you for bringing your truth to light.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I, too, hope you'll continue to speak to us directly in your own voice. For starters, we get your info as fast as possible. :) Also, you're the one who has information straight from your source and from documents. You understand the context and nuances; you've lived it with your dear friend.

It's your story.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
For those who seem insincere in their repetitive questions, doubts, and criticisms: "You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know." John Perry Barlow

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 01:12:01 pm

Curiouser, good for you! You found the whole thing in that CNN transcript. Barbara Walters is no friend of the Babygators! What she did in that brief View clip was to try her best to stamp out the fire! Notice that Joy was almost totally silent during that segment. She knew that she would have her shot at the story later that same night, and she took it. The View may have an audience several times that of Behar on HLN, but there can be little doubt which interview was more informative.

Katie Taylor

9/24/2011 01:31:57 pm

We have heard so many times that a disclosure was imminent that would blow open the Babygate hoax once and for all. Yet here we are still waiting for that definitive proof. I do not think my frustration and utter disappointment is atypical though most are probably not as cynical as me when someone steps forward who claims to be in possession of information that is either new or claiming access to the details of what is going on in the Palin camp regarding babygate. Clearly I'm in the skeptic camp regarding anon238's access but respect the feelings of others to embrace her or his information without question. The latest twist that has been added on how future information will be released only adds to my skepticism. I would so love to be wrong on my assessment of the situation.

Conscious at last!

9/24/2011 01:48:41 pm

I read the transcript of Behar's chat with McG. I did not see anything significant beyond the obvious. Yes, Behar states (something like) that if the hoax were true, it would be a big deal. I think the fact that this discussion took place on TV is an important and positive development.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 01:51:35 pm

Tom: It was just that all the basic topics we have discussed ad nauseum here and on other blogs were trotted out. When I first viewed it, I was just agreeing with all the points, and liking how Joy did some skeptical-sounding quizzing of McG, and he had great answers for each point. Nothing you or I could not do, but the point was it was not a blog but the MSM, even tho Behar has a smaller audience than the View. The View interview by contrast was v short and therefore more superficial, but also much to be grateful there IMO.

The fact that the video of the Behar interview is hard to find is indeed suspicious-making, as Floyd said. I have no TV, so I KNOW I saw it on a computer video, but I could not find it tonight, just as Floyd said and I found that short cut-up version instead. That speaks to right-wing manipulation of the interview for sure. Most of us have suspected that, but it's upsetting to see it happening before our eyes.

Now that we have McG speaking out on MSM (yessssssssss!), the next worry is how long can he do it (and hold audience interest) and will the story have any legs.

I want to give Floyd credit for pointing to the meaning of this to us. It sure slipped right past me. So thank you, Floyd. But I didn't understand the rest of Floyd's point, about how Breitbart got the memo, or what happened 3 weeks later, and blog wars (??). But I'm tired of asking for clarification. I guess he will tell us if/when he wants to.

TksABunchJohn

9/24/2011 02:00:17 pm

Can anyone tell me why some Palin-fighting blogs are celebrating Levi's book??? My head is literally banging the table over this, as I purchased it on Kindle and have read half, and all it does is throw water on everything Andrew Sullivan, Brad Scharlott, Laura Novak, Jesse Griffin, Patrick & Kathleen, Joe McGinniss have fought to expose!!! I don't understand, is it a case of being star-struck? He's a D-list child, probably being forced to lie, blackmailed or bought off. WTF???

Conscious at last

9/24/2011 02:02:14 pm

(having trouble trying to post)
... comparing the Behar interview to the VIEW chat, we have a big error which McG made. He did not do his homework about BW's personal history. Then he blundered into the wild ride discussion by saying to BW something like..."Well Barbara, you've been pregnant or given birth.." Oops apparently, Walters had problems in this area and I think ended up adopting. So the whole crew got off on that issue, since she is the grand dame there. We were lucky that the whole babygate discussion didn't get derailed by this carelessness by McG. He usually is pretty good with interviews - he just made an assumption which he shouldn't have.

Anyhow, so @ Floyd, I don't know if that's what you are referring to about Walters, but it's a separate issue.

I don't see anything earth shattering in the Behar interview.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 02:02:26 pm

Tom, I think I need to give you credit for finding the full transcript. Good job! To answer your question, I look very carefully at the faces and body language during these key interviews. I listen as carefully as I can to voice inflection. I pay close attention to the points of insertion of commercials. Like Leno and Oprah, I think Barbara Walters totally sold out when Palin was brought onto the national stage. These are only the names that come immediately to mind; there are so many others. Palin has become the ultimate celebrity pundit litmus test. You will either do the right thing for our country or you are just a lying sack of crap who will do absolutely anything for money, no matter how much of it you already have. Behar has played a few games over the last three years. You will notice that she finally got her own show, and even she has capitulated to the Palin myth many times. However, I am giving credit where credit is due, and she openly questioned McGinniss about Babygate, and she more or less let him speak fully in his answers. That is clearly more than anyone else has done over these three long years.

As for the tie-in with the other subject, Gryphen could easily have discussed this breakthrough without the inclusion of the actual video. He could have done a lot of things to encourage all of us to keep the momentum of the story going. The Breitbart story was obviously a fabrication of right-wing, hit-piece nonsense, but I think Gryphen knew the source of the e-mail leak the moment the Breitbart story broke. He was more interested in keeping a lid on the source of the leak than he was on furthering the cause of Babygate into the mainstream media, right at the crucial moment of the breakthrough.

Ottoline

9/24/2011 02:12:38 pm

Isn't keeping sources protected a v big deal, Floyd? I don't understand what you think Gryphen did wrong. The Behar interview is all the more interesting now, a few days later, when we see what the RW has done with it.

Also, Laura: why is it a big deal to keep the anon238 posts separate rather than all in one place?

Ottoline

9/24/2011 02:25:46 pm

I'm fine with Joe renting the house, too. Esp because the owner said SP and Todd coerced her to allow a road across her property for the Palins' convenience. An illegal road.

But even without that, this is life in the big city, hardball, high stakes. Palin was almost VP, McG is trying to do a best seller. Gloves off. Both parties should know that.

But I'm still holding a grudge re McG leaking the Bailey ms.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/24/2011 02:31:47 pm

@Floyd - with all due respect (dont'cha just know I'm going to slam you after that line ;-) I don't know what Joy Behars' viewership numbers are on that minor cable station but I'm willing to bet that they are miniscule compared to CNN, MSNC, The View, etc. I would hardly call that a major TV breakthrough and there's a reason people put videos on their blogs .... news flash .... people don't read. (All of us being the exception to the rule). Seriously doubt that any big opportunity was missed.

I don't profess to know what's going on up there in AK but did anyone watch the season premier of The Office last night? It was titled 'The List' and there was one, with all the office members divided into two separate columns for arbitrary reasons. Paranoia ensued, of course.

You are being very coy with us but we don't know the parties involved personally, like you do so it's not fair to drop all this innuendo on us. Be frank with us, man, then we can form our own opinions.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 02:54:56 pm

Ottoline, Gryphen's relationship with Jeanne Devon is his Achilles' heel and I have known that for several years now, and he resents that fact. Why do YOU think he has not once mentioned PARADIGM SHIFT? My book COMPLEMENTS all the Babygate blogs. Just ask anyone who has actually read it. The reasons it has never been mentioned by several of the other bloggers are all different, but equally as selfish, silly, and egotistical. All I have ever wanted is for the Babygators to unite against a common enemy. Quite unfortunately for us all, many place their personal careers and celebrity noshing above our common goal.

Tom link

9/24/2011 02:57:50 pm

Let me get this straight.

AKM/Morris maybe leaked an email from Joe to Jesse out of revenge. How did they get that email unless it was forwarded to them, possibly by Jesse, because they may have answers to Joe's questions that Jesse didn't. If this scenario is true then for all intents and purposes AKM/Morris did the same to Joe that they claim he did to them. Well, that's covered in the first grade Baltimore catechism--definitely a sinneeding Confession ow whatever euphenism they use today. Remuneration?

Anon238 is giving Jesse her mountain to mine. I'm with Katie Taylor (BTW Katie, I used to run a nightclub on Nantucket moons ago and we booked Kate Taylor's--James's sister--band called 'Skin Tight'--very good)on maybe not getting Anon238's infio directly from her fingertips. Redacting, editing all that though I'm sure Jesse'll do a good job. Once info is passed on there;s the chance of translation loss. None of this is my business and Anon238 should do what makes her most comfortable and we can keep our own separate counsel.

A few hours ago Ilearned first hand how the disinformation and editing and so on of Joe's book has skeweded perception. The old friend who sent me the email wrote me that Joe had missed the mark and cited the NYT, Wash Post and the leaked email. She pissed me off and I think I'll cut her off again. It's very annoying, all of this manipulation.

Truth has no value. Power and money does. Christians my ass.

SLQ

9/24/2011 03:05:47 pm

"we have a big error which McG made. He did not do his homework about BW's personal history"

I disagree. I don't think any author would research the personal histories of each of the hosts he will be interviewed by, up to and including whether they had miscarriages. It was awkward, yes. But not a deal-breaker.

Tom link

9/24/2011 03:14:56 pm

Laura, this is funny (well to me). Anon238 said that SP claimed your were only featuring BGate because you wanted to sell your book. I didn't think that, but close. I thought, well Laura's got a hot audience and I see she's taking advantage of it (w/ the Brad interview post on Clarity). Good tdea. But that kinda tells me that the thought crossed SP's mind as well but of course she had to twist it to be ugly. Point is, Anon238 increased her credibility with me.

curiouser

9/24/2011 03:17:23 pm

I was, and still am, very excited by McGinniss' reception on The View. At the beginning of the babygate segment, Walters said that the book was very readable. At the very beginning of the interview (not included in the video linked above), Walters disclosed that she personally knew Joe--there were some ensuing guffaws. Apparently, Joe didn't realize or remember that she'd had miscarriages and adopted. He said, 'Let me ask you, Barbara, you've been pregnant, haven't you? She didn't seem at all bothered. It was Walters who, when they were discussing motive, leaned in and brought up for the second time that it could have been politically motivated. Might she have turned a corner?

I didn't see the next day's program where, from what others have written, Joy led a discussion to discredit babygate based on Levi's personal witness of Sarah in the hospital. I don't know whether Barbara took a position or whether I should relinquish hope that she's open.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/24/2011 03:23:50 pm

"AKM/Morris maybe leaked an email from Joe to Jesse out of revenge. How did they get that email unless it was forwarded to them, possibly by Jesse, because they may have answers to Joe's questions that Jesse didn't."

Ding, ding! We have a winner, Tom. The only correction I want to make is that I think McG most likely sent the message to Devon, as well as Gryphen. There was nothing at all wrong with doing that, just as there was nothing at all wrong with the message.

The problem has been with the alliances all along. You all are aware that McG is friends with Ailes. Did you also know that Ailes is one of Barbara Walters' very best friends? Did you know that Arianna Huffington once took a vacation to Italy with Newt Gingrich and his wife? Did you know that Devon was the first Alaskan blogger to get national attention from Arianna?

Tom link

9/24/2011 03:33:49 pm

Floyd,

Excuse me Laura and ladies but, as we used to say in the restaurant business about customers I'll apply to the media, every last one of 'em.

Fuckem' and feedem' beans.

Tesha

9/24/2011 03:36:51 pm

Days after the 2008 elections I questioned a Republican friend in So Cal why he voted for McCain if he hated Palin so much. He believed that Palin never would have served as VP. He thought that Palin would have been forced to resign and Joe Lieberman would have become the VP (something about Gerald Ford and the 25 amendment.)

One of the most interesting statements in "Game Change" was that Palin would have been a "ceremonial" VP if McCain was elected.

curiouser

9/24/2011 03:54:39 pm

The Joe/Jesse email was primarily about Shailey and included a list of other rumors that IM covered. I don't think Jeanne ever covered any of the rumors on the list. It seems highly unlikely that she'd get a copy of the email...highly unlikely she could help with the sources. Same with Shannyn. While I'm disturbed with the way Jeanne handled her grudge against Joe on her blog, I don't think she'd forward the email even if she had it and I don't think she'd ever play ball with Breitbart.

Ginger

9/24/2011 05:57:03 pm

@Venefica

Re your question to Anon238 regarding a PFD check to Trig.

In Alaska, 24 hours after the birth of a child, it is mandatory for the doctor/midwife to enter the birth information into the computer that goes directly to the "Bureau of Vital Statistics" and a birth certificate is printed out.

I'm always commenting on that e-mail because it is addressed to Sarah. Why would the SOA, Benefits Div., be asking "her" for her child's birth certificate? I assumed they were holding claims/invoices for the birth of Trig and wouldn't pay anymore claims until they received the b/c.

Did Dr. CBJ deliver Trig from Bristol and put Sarah's name on all the paperwork? If she entered the birth information into the computer, she could of put Sarah and Todd's name as parents. And, just changed the date, time and weight of the baby to coincide with Sarah's stories to the press.

I've need heard of a doctor doing this but it's a possibility and Sarah could have a "real" birth certificate for Trig. Alaska is so corrupt, who knows? This really worries me.

@TksABunchJohn

I, too, was dismayed at the one blog I go to that gave a format to the people who wrote Levi's book. For years we've heard..."Sarah faked a pregnancy." Then, they promote a book that says she didn't. I just don't get it!

Heidi3

9/24/2011 07:00:25 pm

Note: Because I feel very comfortable here, these are my thoughts about recent events wherein Babygate is finally getting introduced to the general public. My words are not meant to inflame, perpetrate discord, or in any way diminish the efforts of all blogs and commenters seeking to expose the lies of Sarah Palin. I sense we're at the threshold of realizing our goal. As Nicolle Wallace predicted in 2008, Sarah Palin was the creator of her own demise.

Perhaps we can ask Floyd Orr to further explain, if he wishes, the connection Jeanne Devon has with Breitbart via Huffington Post - she has contributed articles there. I would love to have a more clear understanding.

Supposition: Because we know that McGinniss was communicating/collaborating with Devon, he could *possibly* have copied her on his 1-27-11 email to Gryphen. After all, Joe was looking to firm up contacts for verification purposes, so Devon might have logically been in the loop. I don't know.

A short time after the 1-27-11 email, the "war" between Devon et al and McGinniss erupted over the release of the Bailey (their) "Blind Allegiance" manuscript. I think it's entirely possible that in a plan to exact future and well-timed "revenge" against McG's new book, the 1-27-11 email to Gryphen, having been squirreled away in the Devon/Morris vault, was "leaked" the moment it could cause the greatest damage to Joe's book release. Breitbart got it from someone, and Gryphen has said it wasn't from him. Gryphen has also said he wasn't hacked. However, 'Me Again' alludes to more nefarious higher powers (Murdoch?), so I'm keeping that open, too.

Herein lies the rub: Per Gryphen, he and Devon have been friends for years. For whatever reason I've NEVER been able to determine, Devon flatly refuses to accept (let's say, "state") the fact that Sarah didn't birth Trig on 4-18-08. The latest AKM subterfuge to explain away the flat-belly photos is diet pills. That is purely a deflecting and willfully misleading tactic, imo. But, why? Maybe so the mystery is not soon solved, but more articles - and exposure - on HuffPo or elsewhere could draw us closer to a conclusion on some far away date? Undoubtedly, this will upset any AKM fans here, but these are my thoughts.

I believe Floyd Orr is trying to open our eyes to the agenda-driven way the imminent Babygate breakthrough has not been touted on certain influential blogs at this crucial moment. He is asking us to wonder why. We have McGinniss on national TV, for pete's sake! Joy Behar is listening and letting Joe talk. Our dream come true, right?

Breitbart got his hands on some decent ammunition to which he could add his evil spin. But Gryphen didn't shout the Behar/McGinniss interview from the rooftops to effect a counterpunch. Even though things were hoppin' right then (with inconsequential Levi stuff), he should have. Upon reading the transcript (thank you, tom & curiouser), we can see that what Joe was able to clearly articulate to the TV viewers was as significant a breakthrough in Babygate as we've seen in three years, or at least since Gryph's "two babies" post. The mere fact that Behar gave Joe a fair chance to make a Babygate airing to the general public was huge, yet it has been squelched.

I at least pondered the concept that certain bloggers **may not, in fact, be too eager for Babygate to be solved anytime soon**. Actually, Floyd Orr sent me in that direction, and as things unfold, he makes total sense. Money and egos come to mind, with present blog host excepted, of course. Please don't get me wrong - I've enjoyed and studied IM posts & comments for three years, and have donated to Jesse. But I bolted from Mudflats two years ago when I got tarred and feathered for innocently mentioning "babies".

Admittedly, I had some trepidation upon hearing that Anon 238 Me Again is planning on allowing Gryphen to "filter" her further missives. "Mine the mountain" of info, she said. That is not necessarily meant to cast aspersions on Gryphen, but it does worry me. What might get redacted or rephrased, when we, who've studied the details for 3+ years, can run with the facts and words exactly as Me Again presents them?

Everything about Anon Me Again rings true to me. She did actually predict certain things, such as the "marathon" to counteract comments about Sarah's ill health. So, no matter how she chooses to release her information, and no matter how or where I wish she would or would not, which is none of my business, I consider her comments to be a long-anticipated gift which I and many of us gratefully accept.

ja.thought

9/24/2011 08:26:45 pm

(C-span channel) book-tv has McG repeated today Sunday at 9:15 am and 8 pm EDT.

http://www.booktv.org/schedule.aspx

comeonpeople

9/24/2011 10:50:11 pm

@ThanksabunchJohn:
I know, I am really disturbed about POgates and the Levi lovefest going on over there. I said as much to Leadfoot and will porbably take alot of heat. I usually go along to get along and believe each blog is important. But this lovefest is too bizarre.
I asked the Cowans during question hour about the baby Levi was holding in the Palin's kitchen with the deformed ears and asked does Levi know how the ears were "fixed" by the convention. No answer under my question, but there was another answer later in which it was said Levi knows nothing but did once ask Sarah to show the birth cert and she went ballistic.
A guy who knew about leaking amniotic fluids for weeks has no curiosity about a baby with deformed ears...OK
The Cowans are ingenuine to me as well. I am disturbed that Levi's book and the Cowans were given such a forum, unless the aim was to trip them up.
As far as I'm concerned, the time for lovefests is over, if there ever was a time. Humor is fine, but its very weird over there right now.

SLQ

9/24/2011 11:35:37 pm

Actually, I don't think it's all that strange to have a forum for Levi's ghostwriters. For those who are upset by it, I gather you haven't read Levi's book. Neither have I. But those here who are concerned seem to be focusing on just the babygate issue that's been reported in the media, i.e. that Levi said he saw Sarah in the hospital.

That was the reaction over at PoGates at first, but then a few people read the book, and believed it had value, not only in general, but for babygate, due to some inconsistencies. My take is that the forum with the ghostwriters was to try to get to the bottom of some of the inconsistencies.

Frankly, I'm seeing a lot of infighting among the blogs right now. Some seem to want to cast IM as the "tabloid" babygate blog (WHY would Anon post THERE?). Some seem to want to cast this blog as the "intelligent" blog, which others seem to find a tad offensive. Still others want to cast PoliticalGates as "wrong" for allowing a forum on a book that deals with babygate, while others think PoliticalGates is THE babygate blog.

I don't have an opinion. I go to each of the blogs to get new information, to share my frustrations with this ongoing saga, and to add whatever few tidbits I think of or find. The infighting detracts from this.

Speaking of detracting, my take on Anon238 is that we've expressed enough healthy skepticism to cover our backsides if it all goes south. Likewise, any necessary words of caution to others have long ago been expressed. Is that the point? The speculation of whether Anon238 is "real" is sort of like speculation on whether Sarah Palin will run -- it only matters when the fat lady sings. Anon238 either will produce, or she won't. She either has delayed because she was on vacation/had to think it through/check with a lawyer or she is stringing us along. Nothing we do or say will change the timeline or how she chooses to present information.

Perhaps we could just make a list of everyone who leans toward "she's real, but I remain cautious" and those who lean toward (or flat out say) she's intentionally misleading us. Then, when we know the answer, we'll know who can say, "I was right." Is that what this is all about?

Of course, us commenters are essentially ALL anonymous. It's not as though if Anon238 does provide the smoking gun e-mail or whatever, the curtain will be drawn back, and those commenters who believed her (cautiously) will take a real, public bow. Likewise, if Anon238 never comes through, or we find out we've been punked, the naysayers won't publicly get credit. The only thing that will happen is that here, in the comments in these blogs, we can say, for example, "rubbernecking was right" or "Bill in Baltimore was right."

Sorry if this seems a bit cranky. I know tensions are high, and Anon238's promised revelations have everyone on edge. But, it's frustrating to come to these posts looking for information and having to wade through all the infighting to get to the good stuff.

The "our blog is better than your blog" and "I'm right about Anon238 -- no I am" stuff gets a bit old.

Thanks for listening.

SLQ

9/24/2011 11:51:22 pm

Also, to those expressing dismay because Anon238 has stated she is giving her mountin of info to Gryphen to "mine," take heart. If Anon238 is real, she sounds like she won't take any guff. So, if she trusts Gryphen to publish her revelations, and he doesn't do it justice, I'm sure she'll speak up and change her plan. I doubt she'd just go quietly into the night. This is yet another aspect that requires patience.

NSG

9/25/2011 12:00:43 am

SLQ, well said. And I don't think you sound cranky. :)

I agree that when we collectively overly nit-pick about tangential issues we undermine what I believe is the collective goal: getting the truth out there.

As you describe, we've established a healthy level of skepticism about an Anonymous poster while remaining open to meaningful developments. We've aired legitimate (and non-) concerns about motives of various players so that others can stay wary.

Once that's done, let's focus on where and how we can make a difference.

IMHO, I think a real opportunity TODAY is to help focus the FDL salon discussion and audience on the meaningful issues and not the distractions.

www.firedoglake.com
Time: 2pm Pacific (or 1:55, per Joe's blog?)
Commenters have to be registered, so plan ahead

And, to be clear, I'm pushing this because of the message opportunity, not because I'm wanting to support Joe personally. Yes, that may well be a consequence, but I'm way more focused on the former. The other? Well, it's a distraction. :)

9/25/2011 12:17:34 am

I can't keep up with the blog intrigue, but it has occurred to me, more than once, that G seemed to back away from full throttle on babygate. I figured he knew the story was coming out & didn't want to steal someone's thunder. Levi? Mercede? Joe? Now it looks like the someone is Fred, with whom it appears G has been working closely. This isn't sinister, people. If G has contributed to the work of another journalist, it would be unethical for him to spill the beans on his blog or anywhere else. If he has passed along his own info to Fred that he is keeping under wraps so as to not undermine the project, that's his right. If he stands to benefit in some tangible way from the book, hell, more power to him. I don't know why Gryphen does everything that he does. My sense is that he backs away from certain people/stories when he has reservations but doesn't want to air dirty laundry. Through all of this, from the early days of PD, there is a small handful of people I've never found reason to distrust: G is one of them. Am I impatient as all heck for the story to break already? You betcha! But it's been 3 years, I can wait a little longer. I was a little surprised to hear that I've been wrong in my assumption that Fred's book would be published only in e-book form: sounds like the pub date must've been pushed back significantly from the plan, if they've been doing recent updates. On the up-side, it will serve to majorly increase the visibility of the book. Hopefully that Web site G mentioned will be up soon.

DebinOH

9/25/2011 12:28:18 am

I have liked different things about all the different blogs/bloggers since I found them three years ago. I believe that AKM just never wanted to tarnish her image because she wanted to be a writer (maybe I am wrong here) and if she was wrong - career over. I think it was weird to ban anyone who mentioned the pregnancy/delivery/child (and a little extreme), but it is her blog and she could do what she wanted.

However, what disturbs me now is the stuff that has been posted "from the cutting room floor". Why would she wait until now? Why would she now let people discuss the pregnancy stuff at all since she has been so adamant about talking about it at all? Just because she is trying to get back at Joe? This is just all so tedious. I like her blog and I like her for what she has brought to the table but I don't care for these shenanigans.

The leak of the e-mail. It proves absolutely nothing and quite frankly I think it makes Joe look better. I don't know what else to think about it.

I think that all the things mentioned about Ailes, Gingrich and Ariana are weird and I am going to look into it. I guess the only thing, to me, that stands out here is that Ailes is finally taking SP down? She is expendable just like they knew she would be.

I think we have to keep in mind is that while we personally could not go on vacation or be friends with someone so far to the right of the isle, it is not the same for all the big players. For example, you watch the people yelling and screaming at each other in congress and they all leave and go to lunch together.

I couldn't do it because it all means something to me & all my friends. To them it seems like they are all up there just putting on a play. I don't know.......

Floyd, I do think that Gryph has let you talk about your book and plug it. Perhaps you are right and the fact that he & AKM are friends (and you are a perceived threat to her bottom line) is why you haven't got as much attention. He does live there and they seem to be friends so perhaps he feels they have enough on her or that what you have brought to the table is sort of a repeat?

To me everything that is brought to the table is good & however anyone goes about exposing her is a good thing at the end of the day.

I'll have to go over to POgates to check out the Levi love fest. That does sound odd.

Bill in Baltimore

9/25/2011 12:40:04 am

Anybody know what's up with Politicususa?...I keep getting a hacked message.

Diane

9/25/2011 12:41:01 am

I have been on vacation all week, no wifi and no book stores.
So I come here today not having read the 'book'.

It seems to me that there should be an investigation into Palin's claim that she gave birth to Trig.
But...
Everybody should be concerned about her stability and her judgement, even her most ardent fans.
If she did give birth to Trig, then she has shown that she has the most appalling judgement, callous disregard for life, and an inability to examine her own choices in regard to the safety of others.
Any sane person should have looked at that story and questioned her judgement.
Any woman who has given birth should have been disgusted with her 'choice' as well as the religious who revere the unborn.

There were many many stories of the 2008 election that the press got totally wrong, did not report on, ignored, or just plain refused to investigate.
That palin has become a millionaire because she is pretty was because she was able to game the system.

What we all have to do is make sure that a person like palin, never ever gets that close tot he Presidency again.

DebinOH

9/25/2011 12:42:07 am

SLQ - I do think that this blog is different and the reason I view it as a more intellectual blog is because people don't just throw out random things like - I hate SP, she is a pig, blah, blah, blah. No one seems interested in having a conversation for example, on IM. I know who posts what on other sites and I do like to read what those people have to say. When I come over here I get to see some things said there in further depth.

I hope that this doesn't offend anyone or turn people off. I just want a more in depth discussion. Believe me I don't think I am smarter than anyone other than SP herself;)

I agree though that I wish there didn't seem to be so much in-fighting at the moment or taking sides. I think everybody needs to take a deep breath and remember we are all here for one purpose and that is to never let SP near the White House.

SLQ

9/25/2011 12:42:44 am

I should also note that the tone at PoliticalGates changed after a few people read the book (which, again, I haven't). It seemed to elicit a lot of sympathy toward Levi, and speculation as to why he said what he did (was he duped at the hospital? threatened by Sarah to go along?) These are valid questions, and sympathy toward Levi, who is in all likliehood a victim of Sarah and/or Tank and/or Rex . . . is a fairly normal reaction, IMHO.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 12:44:31 am

@SLQ - amen.

As a professional playwright and features writer for 36 years, I can say that the only thing I know for sure is that "truth" is as slippery as "untruth." As well-researched as McG's book on Palin is, I wasn't surprised by the reviews, many of which are written by people smarter than you or I. What's off about the book is its tone and how McG presents his information, so that even though the material is there, for many it reads as "untruth" -- particularly by people who haven't followed this story as long as we have.

(As many have compared McG's sources to Deep Throat, please remember that the writers MADE Deep Throat a character. They made us care for him and created for us our willingness to trust him as a source.)

AKM's book has a "truth" that was censored by its Christian publisher and by her informant's fear. That did it in FAR MORE than any damn leak.

The "truth" of Levi's book may be the persecution he's suffered by the Palins at a very young age that has left him confused and vulnerable. Leadfoot's review offers that viewpoint that I found compelling. Again, expecting Levi to deliver the "truth" I want, sets me up for disappointment.

The bogus guy in Bristol's bar who attacked her? He said he wasn't planted, that the whole thing was "true." Was it? Did you trust that guy? I've known actors my whole life, and no, I didn't.

Does Gryph publish the "truth?" Yes, sometimes, I'm sure he does. But it's always his "truth" filtered by his ambition and his persona.

So, I'm with you SLQ, we all want Palin gone. That I'm sure of. But each of us has a way we want her gone and an idea of the "truth" it will take to do so.

Would G censor Anon238? Maybe. What if he were very invested in Fred's book and wanted Fred to be the one to score the final blow? Mighten he go a bit slowly with Anon238? Possibly.

I do hope Anon238 contacts Laura and Floyd. Again, we want Palin down.

I say, open the floodgates. Let it all out. Levi, Joe, Anon238, comments, posts. Whatever it takes. I'm for it. And not one of them, even Palin!, holds the complete truth of this situation. (And no, not even you, Mr. Orr.)

To think one knows the "truth" in this story, or to think that one person holds that key, is a setup for disappointment.

Tom link

9/25/2011 12:46:47 am

DebinOH--I get the sense that Griffin and AKM are adversaries and maybe former friends. Wasn't it AKM and Shannyn that tried to dissuade Griffin from chasing the Trig thing? Aren't they the two that he lambasted vulgarly (I should talk) a couple of months ago?That's my recollection.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 12:55:44 am

RE: the Levi book. The ghostwriters seem likeable, if you read their statement. From them, I learned Levi is one of the most hated people in the US right now (after that Anthony woman), and that does seem sad.

They also intimated in one response, that Levi has been taken advantage of by his legal team. Or that's what I thought I read.

People often attack abused children by blaming them for not coming forward, for not stopping the lies. All I can say, is that it's not that easy.

Again, it's that slippery "truth" that not all of us are in touch with.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/25/2011 01:18:37 am

V-A, I LOVE this quote:

Does Gryph publish the "truth?" Yes, sometimes, I'm sure he does. But it's always his "truth" filtered by his ambition and his persona.

SLQ

9/25/2011 01:20:47 am

V-A and Floyd, I also love that quote. But it's true for everyone, isn't it?

SLQ

9/25/2011 01:24:29 am

hit the button too soon. I meant to add "as V-A was saying about 'truth'."

Floyd M. Orr link

9/25/2011 01:24:39 am

Sorry, V-A, I should have included this quote, too:

"I say, open the floodgates. Let it all out. Levi, Joe, Anon238, comments, posts. Whatever it takes. I'm for it. And not one of them, even Palin!, holds the complete truth of this situation. (And no, not even you, Mr. Orr.)

To think one knows the "truth" in this story, or to think that one person holds that key, is a setup for disappointment."

You're right, I do not know the whole truth. None of us does, and what's worse is that we may never know it. It's hiding out there somewhere in the books and the blogs. The best we can hope for is to spread the word through all our sources and see what sticks.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 01:26:34 am

Anon

9/25/2011 01:31:14 am

I'm not sure if I am uncomfortable with this topic in general or with the timing of this topic but I do hope that we can change the subject soon.

CougInPortland

9/25/2011 01:34:32 am

Although I understand the frustration of some posters in the disbursement of information, I am content to wait.

Anything done too haphazardly could ruin the desired outcome. I have faith in those deeply imbedded in revealing the truth, and that lawyers are being consulted before dissemination is encouraging. The silence from the Palin camp in return speaks volumes.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 01:37:52 am

@Viola-Alex - Aha! You're a writer. Now I know why I keep yelling YES at my computer when I read your comments.

Well said: no one person will be responsible for bringing Sarah down.

Hate it when it starts to feel like a contest amongst the blogs and commenters, "My theory", "No, my theory", "No, your theory stinks, look at my new theory". Yuck.

So I'll repeat my pet theory;-): It will happen when it happens and it could be straight out of left field so bring on the stuff that matters from any source and leave the competition at home.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/25/2011 01:38:38 am

This is a good summation, SLQ:

"Frankly, I'm seeing a lot of infighting among the blogs right now. Some seem to want to cast IM as the "tabloid" babygate blog (WHY would Anon post THERE?). Some seem to want to cast this blog as the "intelligent" blog, which others seem to find a tad offensive. Still others want to cast PoliticalGates as "wrong" for allowing a forum on a book that deals with babygate, while others think PoliticalGates is THE babygate blog."

This why I have been referring to the blogs as "cults".

SLQ

9/25/2011 01:43:11 am

Anon said, "I'm not sure if I am uncomfortable with this topic in general or with the timing of this topic but I do hope that we can change the subject soon."

What topic are you referring to?

everspring

9/25/2011 01:43:29 am

My 2 cents, which I have expressed when the dust-up first occurred, was that everyone is in it for the scoop, the prize, the fame, the money. Not necessarily in that order. I visit "all" the blogs to try and eke something out that can lead to something definitive about SP and many mysteries that surround her. I find more compatibility with bloggers who lean toward discussion and sleuthing and less with the bloggers who focus on more mundane things like how horrible SP looks in a picture (although I have made a few comments like that too, also). But in spite of the differences in the blog host and bloggers, there are sometimes little nuggets of info that help move the ball forward.

With that said, I have gathered enough little nuggets now to go write my book - for the money, the fame, the scoop and the prize. It's entitled, "Babygate Opens Wide."

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 01:49:35 am

@Floyd. thanks for being a good sport.

@Anon. I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with the discussion. I'm sure it will shift in a heartbeat.

@SLQ. Exactly.

To repeat, I read ALL the anti-Palin blogs and many many comments. (Even Mudflats) I read Joe's book. I'm grateful for all who do this hard work.

I want Palin off the stage however it happens.

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 01:53:08 am

@Anon, I'm so sorry you find the subject matter not to your liking. What would you like us to talk about?

I'm sure once you make your wishes known we'll all start talking about that. Just let us know, then hold your breath.

Anon

9/25/2011 01:54:34 am

I was referring to the blog controversies at a time when there is a spotlight on the Palin blogs due to increased media attention on babygate, etal.

NSG

9/25/2011 01:56:47 am

I really appreciate this discussion, and all the thoughtful perspectives.

I just want to add then that when I was encouraging some of us more informed in Palinalia to chime in at the Firedoglake salon for The Rogue, I was referring to a more generalized, overarching "truth." Hopefully, it's one that the majority of us CAN agree on. I don't claim to have the best summary of it, but I offer a version for others to help refine.

I think part of the frustrations we all share is that the specifics of Palin's story are elusive, unproven, sometimes contradictory. And, as a result, when the topic gets a public platform, it often degenerates into nit-picking over specifics. The whole "Levi saw Sarah in a hospital bed with an IV in her arm" is a terrific example of how things can get tangled up, thereby allowing the main points to get lost.

That's why I propose that -- especially when we have a chance with a broader audience -- we should always get back to what I see as a bigger message. Sarah Palin herself is only part of the story. The real story is that someone horribly unfit & unqualified -- likely with a big HOAX under her shirt -- was knowingly promoted as VP/Presidential material, and our natinonal media allowed it to happen. (I say "likely" to make it palatable to a skeptical, newer audience, just as, I believe, Joe did in Ch. 19.)

Moving forward for our country, there needs to be a broad recognition of this, and an understanding of how it happened, all with a goal of avoiding it in the future.

Obviously, within this big picture are many questions about specific who-when-where-why, etc. There's a lot of this we still don't know and may never know. But when we engage with broader audiences (Amazon, Firedoglake, our family Thanksgiving tables!), I think it's important to come back to the basics.

The other beauty of this approach is that we have parallel paths. On one, we maintain a consistent message of broken and exploited political and journalism systems, with Palin's story as a horrific case study. On the other, we can continue the process of seeking and analyzing the specific pieces, allowing those to unfold as sources and information become available.

Thanks for considering.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 02:06:38 am

@Sharon-Too-Also. Thank you. Everyone who writes comments here is a writer. I love hearing the voices I associate with the names. (Tom, in particular, your character comes out in your words. No one has ever made me want to read DFW but you. )

I mentioned that I was a writer only because every time I've written a story involving sources, I've used their words to say what I want. If Janet Malcolm, the celebrated New Yorker writer, wants to believe in Sarah Palin, the mythic Alaskan woman, she can find material to support her view and write it persuasively.

If Joe wants to defend his Ailes friendship, he can craft a defense many of us will swallow.

This is why Sarah is afraid of real writers. In the end, those who can express their beliefs persuasively will have the final power.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 02:17:30 am

@NSG -- Yes, yes, yes.

1. Publicize the birth hoax.

2. Implicate all who knew or enabled.

3. Broadcast how easily Palin got close to the presidency.

Anything else?

Laura Novak link

9/25/2011 02:26:30 am

Okay, I"m back. Perhaps Sarah did send the skunks my way because we all know she sees things in black and white. Baduummmm Tsshhhhh.

Between a crew excavating dirt yesterday and us feeding men at the shelter last night, I've read your comments, but have not read another page in Joe's book. I'll try to catch up today.

I am sorry I missed the Anastasia discussion. Having lived in "Leningrad" as it was then called, having read a lot about Anna Anderson and the Romanovs (Row-MAN-ovs) I love that whole topic.

We've all got the "no apologies for typos" rule down here. Now I'd like to clarify that blogger bashing - in particular Gryphen, who is as busy as a one-armed paper hanger - is not cool for me. And I've said that (privately to you know who you are) before. So, knock it off.

Meantime, I'd love it if Sarah could share the link to my novel with her vast social network (even if she is afraid of me.) It's a great read and deserves to go viral. It's only once I was able to get that book finished that I was able to turn my full attention to blogging about her abs, and skunks, and the men's shelter. Oh, and that neonatologist who knew what he was talking about.

Here's my Amazon link again. Buying my book (or sending as a gift!) is a great way to support my efforts so I can put my attention toward more ear photos and insurance issues!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HRNIUK

Thank you all!

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 02:28:27 am

@Anon, my apologies; I assumed you were trying to divert us.

I personally think the blog controversies do play a part in the overall Babygate picture as we know it because there is a kernel of truth in some of it that may offer some perspective.

Because of that I find it interesting to read and useful to know about but I try to keep my objectivity concerning the central issue.

9/25/2011 02:31:01 am

@SLQ: But, it's frustrating to come to these posts looking for information and having to wade through all the infighting to get to the good stuff.

I'm agree. I think this is a terrific forum for analysis of babygate. I don't comment very often, but I check in 5 or 6 times a day to read all of the comments. It seems as if the last couple of days the focus has been on sniping - at other blogs and at other commentors here. I know, it's a public forum and if I don't like it I can ignore a post and move on - which I try to do. It's just that the sniping takes up a lot of valuable space - unlike this complaint which is totally justified!

mxm

9/25/2011 02:32:42 am

Only a few possibilities make sense to me, any other thoughts that would make everything fit? Here are a couple of scenarios:

1a) Bristol delivered a startlingly premature Ruffles with DS. Ruffles was discharged and present in the Wasilla home, photographed the weekend end of May 4, 2008 and has since disappeared.

1b) Sarah faked a pregnancy and acquired Trig, a DS baby from one of her fundie sources. The adoption of Trig was not finalized.

2) Same as 1a, except Trig and Ruffles were identical twins. Ruffles remains disappeared. Bristol allowed her mother to use Trig but refused to allow her to adopt Trig. Bristol has walked away from Trig.

3a) Bristol delivered Trig in early 2008, he was startlingly premature and had DS. Bristol allowed her mother to use Trig but refused to allow her to adopt Trig. Bristol has walked away from Trig.

3b) Ruffles was borrowed for a short time as Trig was too big, too fussy or had an ever present feeding tube and was unsuitable to go public as a premature infant. Ruffles was acquired for a bit from a fundie source. Ruffles was a beautiful infant with the ear deformity. Sarah thought it would never be noticed and she would work to cover it up.

-----

During her early public appearances with an infant in a sling, Sarah employed one of those real life dolls as she really had no interest in Trig and would not be bothered with a special needs infant.

Records were in the church file cabinet that was set ablaze.

Dar Miller may have been called upon to help care for one or both of these infants. She died in an arson fire.

9/25/2011 02:34:25 am

Laura - just bought your book and am looking forward to reading it!

Laura Novak link

9/25/2011 02:43:44 am

Thank you, TF! I really appreciate it. And I appreciate you visiting and commenting on my site.

Mxm, great summary. But here's my problem with, not your summary in particular, but a point that I keep wanting to say but never have very clearly:

For Trig or Ruffles to have been THAT premature, such as February, my guess is that there would be many more delays involved, or deficits, than what we see in that big boy, current Trig. However, the Ds might mask much of those things, such as delayed motor skills, eating issues, respiratory vulnerabilities. It's just that the pre-28-weekers that I've know often show their prematurity well into their toddler years.

Just a thought. Once again, something that's just not clear given the Ds diagnosis.

comeonpeople

9/25/2011 02:44:58 am

@SLQ:
My beef with Pogates right now is when people write they have crushes on or want to date Levi, it vastly distracts from the serious work we are trying to do. That's all. New people who visit will NOT understand the humor of those who have been at this for years . Credibility is my concern. I like humor, but I guess I'm at the end of my tolerance.

everspring

9/25/2011 03:06:54 am

I don't know if this would be too late in the game to do or too difficult, but perhaps a BLOG TIMELINE (with one owner, uh, not me) might be in order for us to take a step back and analyze things from a fresh perspective. There is so much more info out there today. Timeline could include emails, pics, disappearances, travel itins, interview comments, magazine articles, books, etc.

I feel like I'm often spinning my wheels with assumptions, but not really sure of all the facts that led me to those assumptions.

Rationalist

9/25/2011 03:10:44 am

Happy Sunday, everyone! I'm delighted to be able to spend a little time drinking coffee and catching up on comments guilt-free (as opposed to during the week, when it's more surreptitious...)

@Laura Novak - finally, the correct spelling of a rim shot: "Baduummmm Tsshhhhh!"

Regarding Anon238/MeAgain: My impression is that she is saying that she's planning to reveal her identity to Gryphen. She wanted to get some legal advice before she did that. If she tells him who she and her Palin insider friend are, and he vouches for her, that will go a long way towards settling this debate.

So...we'll see!

Laura Novak link

9/25/2011 03:11:20 am

Oh, and Rubbernecking, I think we'd all benefit from any comparison you might want to do of the He said/She said points in both "kids'" books.

If you're up for it, I'm sure it would be worthwhile reading.

I know, Everspring. I've had that ambition myself. But am overwhelmed with work as it is. It would be great to have one place to edit all the pieces together.

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 03:19:36 am

@mxm, here's something interesting I read on the meAgain thread at IM a couple of days ago. I didn't bring it here at the time because it's someone conjecturing on the identity of meAgain and I don't want to start that up again.

==========================
@Anonymous wrote: MeAgain...I'm guessing you're related to the birth mother of Trig. I can't think of anyone else that Sarah wouldn't throw under the bus, quite frankly.

2:28 PM
==========================

That's something I had never thought of and it makes perfect sense. It would certainly explain meAgain's indication that she isn't afraid of Sarah because she has the absolute goods on her.

It also lends a lot of weight to your 1b) theory.

However, there are other things to consider in such a scenario and they become so convoluted I'm not sure I want to go there because it gets so murky.

Let's hope we hear from meAgain very soon. She has a lot to say.

shaytripp link

9/25/2011 03:33:04 am

This is Shailey, I just want to let everyone know, APD’s Lt Dave Parker has admitted to Tiemessen, Palin’s lawyer calling him to ask him if he made a press release. The Atlantic, Malia Litman have wrote about this. Now I have too: http://www.briefingwire.com/pr/apd-will-not-give-property-back-and-caught-lying and
http://shaileytripp.yolasite.com/blog/apd-lies-because-tiemessen-asked-them-to

Lynn

9/25/2011 03:39:53 am

it has been so many years and so many blogs that I don't remember who said it or where, but haven't we heard more than once that the real truth behind the baby hoax, if it became known, was so horrific/distasteful that it would, um, blow our minds?

If that is true, and I won't speculate at this point, then if "it's me again" is correct that SP has at times been close to "confessing", then wouldn't it be likely that even that confession could be a partial or complete fabrication?

In other words, if the heat is on and she tearfully confesses to faking the pregnancy out of a misguided but profound desire to protect the pregnant Bristol, then THAT story, also too, could be false?

I wonder if we will ever know.

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 03:44:01 am

@Lynn, Sarah can say anything she wants about the hoax and all related situations.

I for one will not believe anything she might have to say because it will always be slanted to make her out to be the martyr, which she is anything but.

Rationalist

9/25/2011 03:45:05 am

Lynn, you are probably right. I assume that we'll never know the relevance of the strangest parts of this story (Ruffles, Dar Miller, the church fire, Menard's plane crash, those emotional comments a while back about a trust fund and children, etc.). But as long as the fact that Palin faked a pregnancy comes out and those who perpetuated the spiral of silence are therefore properly shamed (ADN, Salon, Politico, etc, etc, etc), I'll be satisfied.

NSG

9/25/2011 03:45:51 am

Shailey, great job on that press release! I really hope it helps get your story out. (And are you still waiting to get the rest of your property back?!)

I encourage everyone to go over to Shailey's and read the whole release yourself....

http://shaileytripp.yolasite.com/blog/apd-lies-because-tiemessen-asked-them-to

And help spread the word!

mxm

9/25/2011 03:59:17 am

I have always believed that 1a and 1b made the most sense. In this scenario, Ruffles was Bristol's loved and fragile birth child. The father may or may not have been Levi. But what has become of this baby?

In this scenario, Trig is acquired for prop purposes using the contacts of the fundie community and perhaps even taking advantage of her position of power as the ultimate head of state agencies. Even to this day, the Palin's are using their past positions of power to abuse individuals, systems and courts. Everyone should see Shailey's post from yesterday to appreciate the level of continued abuse.

That Levi and Bristol showed love for Trig is not surprising, that doesn't make them his biological parents. It makes them teenagers who momentarily had some care giving responsibility for Trig, they may have been grieving another loss making Trig a surrogate for their overwhelming feelings. Or they just plain loved that baby. And the world saw that love at the RNC.

I also don't think that Bristol and Levi would walk away so completely from Trig if he was their biological child.

Laura, agree with you that a startlingly premature infant has long term developmental delays and they would be evident. I saw that first hand.

There just aren't that many scenarios that fit with what we know.

Jo C link

9/25/2011 04:08:15 am

I am a reader (especially of mysteries), not much of a writer. I love this site because of the intelligence of the writers and their ability to convey their theories. I hope the focus can stay on Sarah Palin rather than trying to one-up or put down another blog. Each has its strength; this is a deadly serious subject, the thrusting onto America such an unqualified, mean-spirited, untrustworthy individual. Focusing on unraveling the layers of Babygate is one way to expose the perfidy of both McCain and Palin. What I like so much about this site is putting together the theories and clues (and MeAgain is adding some big ones!) that are revealed in the comments and Laura's posts. With minds like these, the truth must be revealed!

curiouser

9/25/2011 04:09:10 am

everspring - I've been thinking about the same thing a lot lately. I sincerely hope it's 'too late in the game' but, if it looks like babygate won't wrap up soon, it may be worth it.

I'd like to see a site focused as much as possible on sourced evidence and information--a resource that would help old-timers and yet wouldn't scare off the curious or the media. Besides a timeline, photos, schedule, etc., I'd like to see it include a 'she said/she said/she said' that would show the changes and contradictions in her story from her book, interviews, and speeches. The site could also include a page for questions the media needs to ask Palin and McCain (or might that send the media running?).

If I ever finish some critical projects, I might be able to take it on. It might be a time-saver to wait to see what Fred's website looks like and when the babygate book will be published.

BicPent

9/25/2011 04:17:59 am

Laura said: "For Trig or Ruffles to have been THAT premature, such as February, my guess is that there would be many more delays involved, or deficits, than what we see in that big boy, current Trig".

We don't really have any way to know how premature a February birth would make Trig or Ruffles. How can we know what the true due date for either baby might be? How premature is "startlingly premature"?

Mrs Gunka

9/25/2011 04:20:56 am

Thank you mxm! When Sarah was introduced to the country by John McCain, he was running for President. He was opposed by a black man. Dick Army was called upon by higher ups to head up a group to stir the waters. The country was waking up to the shenanigans of the GOP of our response to 9-11. Patriotism had gone amok and we ended up with 2 wars draining our coffers dry. Wall Street and the bankers had had a heyday for 8 years and Cheney was over-seeing the military industrial complex. Wall Street collapsed, the housing bubble collapsed, we were sending all our jobs overseas but were told to go out and spend...don't pay any attention to the wars...we will win and the price of gas will come down, we will drill, baby, drill. All we have to do is go to the mega churches and give our money to bring back morality to this country... NO MORE ABORTIONS! Home school the kids and keep GOD running the government. It was all about God, Guns and Greed! The Muslims were trying to take over our country. FEAR, FEAR, FEAR! ...and a Black man had won the nomination! Hilary had lost.

In comes an old military maverick on his shiney horse and who should appear beside him, but a pitbull with lipstick and a lot of baggage they tried to sweep under the rug. Another George Bush puppet to distract us from the puppet masters behind the curtain.

Then the Mama Grizzly opened her mouth and we woke up. She was allowed to spit out every vile thing to stir up the hidden hatred out there. Dick Army and his corporate backers built the Tea Party Patriots to stir the pot. The Black Man won. The thrilla from Wasilla with smitten with celebrity! She wasn't going to sit down and shut up. She was promised the moon to deliver the goods. And the rest is history.

That fake pregnancy was her ticket to the White House and her escape from Alaska. It didn't get any better than that. She was willing to sell herself to the devil for fame and fortune and those puppet masters and oilmen were funding her to stir the pot. They forgot one thing, not everyone was as stupid as they thought. And their puppet was dumber than a door nail.

Their little Pro-Life trick had backfired. They hired/tricked more crazies to distract us in 2010 and slipped a bunch of Teabaggers into the House to stop anything President Obama tried. When we got a water-downed version of a health care bill passed it triggered the hatred. Remember "Death Panels"? Our country is in big trouble with the deficit Bush/Cheney had left us with WMD and Wall Street/Bank collapse.

A bunch of us banned together to stop the forward progress of a crazy woman who wanted to run our country. No one payed any attention to this. Mainly, the MSM had dropped the ball/were instructed to not pay any attention to us. She was given a bankroll to keep the message out there and stir the pot.

But her ace in the hole was becoming a burden to them...the little babies/grand babies were growing up and their pro-life message was being questioned. Books were being written to get the hoax into the population. MSM had a problem on their hands. The internet that was so detrimental in getting our president in office was being used by a rogue woman to block his forward movement and a bunch of bloggers was using it against them. The MSM had dropped the ball and we had picked it up.

Now we are sitting here squabbling about who is the best and will finally break the story of the baby hoax that brought us together. While we are fighting amongst each other, the puppet master have embedded their people into our squabbles to stir us up and making us all paranoid. Many are obvious, even with our anonymous nomenclature. Other use their own name, but we don't really know what their agenda is or know them personally. The in-fighting has become a real distraction.

It's time to go back to the thing that brought us here...the baby hoax that brought us together. When one blog was scared off, others picked up and moved forward. Sarah has never taken anyone to court because the truth would be exposed. Our goal was to keep her away from any elected office as she is not qualified! Let's stop the mind games and name calling and all work together to get the message out! If any ANON person has information to give us on any blog, let them. Every dot needs to be connected!

If I were to just log on at this date to get information on this story, I would not come back again. I want information not back stabbing. If you have information, spit it out, don't play mind games with it. Don't be cute by telling people to go read my book for the answers and then not reveal them, but use big words that everyone doesn't understand! Don't say you know something but I can't tell you yet, to keep people looking day after day to keep readers. If you are going to run a blog, stick with it or have others do the posts daily while you are busy else where. Blogs that run 500-600 comments repeating the same thing for days doesn't get us answers. Use a format tha

Melly

9/25/2011 04:23:11 am

Everspring, I've always liked this--I have no idea who compiled it, I've had it bookmarked for ~3 years. Could be a starting point for your timeline.

http://www.palinbabyquestion.com/whois_trig_palins_mother1.html

Rationalist

9/25/2011 04:25:06 am

@Melly - I remember that one. Yes, that's a good format.

NSG

9/25/2011 04:30:07 am

MeAgain/Anon238 has posted again, on the Broomfield post...

Part 1 of 2 (2 separate posts):

Anonymous 4:29,
Aren't you the sweetest little pea! "I'm yours", too!

Anonymous 10:18,
If I knew the answer to that question, I would definitely share it. The only stuff I've heard about will she/won't she is that she wanted Todd to hold off on registering for a race because she felt if people saw Todd wasn't going to be there at such a crucial time for candidates, then people might assume she wasn't running.

Todd didn't think she should drag it out like this--he felt it might alienate the small base they have left. (it is NOT care or concern which drives him to think that way, it's the worry that the biggest well will run dry...he certainly enjoys his PAC funded debit card) She thinks if she shows up on fox occasionally and spouts a talking point or two, she is still "in the game".

For all the times she mentions this and other blogs, picks apart Joe and other writers...for as much as she mentions the most mundane things...she NEVER mentions running for president. (insofar as I have been told by my source and have observed for myself via the portion of her emails that I've seen)

It's the proverbial "elephant in the room".

-MeAgain

NSG

9/25/2011 04:31:05 am

Part 2 of 2:

Oh, I almost forgot to mention something of the utmost importance...I noticed yesterday someone had posted a comment about wanting to send me donations. Let's pull a Deputy Fife right now and say NIP IT! Nip it in THE BUD!
(I'm probably dating myself horribly)

Anyway...it's a very nice thought but please let's have no more talk of that. I'm blessed to work in a field I both adore and excel at. I may not have "Bristol Palin Getting Pregnant With The Stars" money, but I am comfortable.

So please, no more mention of that little issue...and if you've got money just burning a hole in your pocket and you want to do something for me...donate to the Special Olympics in honor of Trig.

(Gryphen, I sacked out watching SNL last night, but I will be contacting you privately tonight so you can have a look-see at some of the emails and stuff I thought you'd be most interested in)

-MeAgain

Link: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=4190158141129121771&blogID=9361564&isPopup=false&page=2

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 04:31:18 am

The latest from Meagain:

‪Anonymous‬ said...
Anonymous 4:29, Aren't you the sweetest little pea! "I'm yours", too!  Anonymous 10:18, If I knew the answer to that question, I would definitely share it. The only stuff I've heard about will she/won't she is that she wanted Todd to hold off on registering for a race because she felt if people saw Todd wasn't going to be there at such a crucial time for candidates, then people might assume she wasn't running.   Todd didn't think she should drag it out like this--he felt it might alienate the small base they have left. (it is NOT care or concern which drives him to think that way, it's the worry that the biggest well will run dry...he certainly enjoys his PAC funded debit card) She thinks if she shows up on fox occasionally and spouts a talking point or two, she is still "in the game".   For all the times she mentions this and other blogs, picks apart Joe and other writers...for as much as she mentions the most mundane things...she NEVER mentions running for president. (insofar as I have been told by my source and have observed for myself via the portion of her emails that I've seen)  It's the proverbial "elephant in the room".   -MeAgain
8:45 AM
‪Anonymous‬ said...
Oh, I almost forgot to mention something of the utmost importance...I noticed yesterday someone had posted a comment about wanting to send me donations. Let's pull a Deputy Fife right now and say NIP IT! Nip it in THE BUD! (I'm probably dating myself horribly)  Anyway...it's a very nice thought but please let's have no more talk of that. I'm blessed to work in a field I both adore and excel at. I may not have "Bristol Palin Getting Pregnant With The Stars" money, but I am comfortable.    So please, no more mention of that little issue...and if you've got money just burning a hole in your pocket and you want to do something for me...donate to the Special Olympics in honor of Trig.      (Gryphen, I sacked out watching SNL last night, but I will be contacting you privately tonight so you can have a look-see at some of the emails and stuff I thought you'd be most interested in)  -MeAgain
9:04 AM

DiOR

9/25/2011 04:31:36 am

More from MeAgain:

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 4:29,
Aren't you the sweetest little pea! "I'm yours", too!

Anonymous 10:18,
If I knew the answer to that question, I would definitely share it. The only stuff I've heard about will she/won't she is that she wanted Todd to hold off on registering for a race because she felt if people saw Todd wasn't going to be there at such a crucial time for candidates, then people might assume she wasn't running.

Todd didn't think she should drag it out like this--he felt it might alienate the small base they have left. (it is NOT care or concern which drives him to think that way, it's the worry that the biggest well will run dry...he certainly enjoys his PAC funded debit card) She thinks if she shows up on fox occasionally and spouts a talking point or two, she is still "in the game".

For all the times she mentions this and other blogs, picks apart Joe and other writers...for as much as she mentions the most mundane things...she NEVER mentions running for president. (insofar as I have been told by my source and have observed for myself via the portion of her emails that I've seen)

It's the proverbial "elephant in the room".

-MeAgain

DiOR

9/25/2011 04:32:30 am

And the next one...

Anonymous said...

Oh, I almost forgot to mention something of the utmost importance...I noticed yesterday someone had posted a comment about wanting to send me donations. Let's pull a Deputy Fife right now and say NIP IT! Nip it in THE BUD!
(I'm probably dating myself horribly)

Anyway...it's a very nice thought but please let's have no more talk of that. I'm blessed to work in a field I both adore and excel at. I may not have "Bristol Palin Getting Pregnant With The Stars" money, but I am comfortable.

So please, no more mention of that little issue...and if you've got money just burning a hole in your pocket and you want to do something for me...donate to the Special Olympics in honor of Trig.

(Gryphen, I sacked out watching SNL last night, but I will be contacting you privately tonight so you can have a look-see at some of the emails and stuff I thought you'd be most interested in)

-MeAgain
9:04 AM

DiOR

9/25/2011 04:34:00 am

I apologize for the redundant postings. I checked before I posted, I swear! Guess we all found it at the same time.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 04:36:10 am

Re: MeAgain - Anyone else get a cheap thrill when they pop over to that old IM thread and find a new comment by MeAgain? Absolutely makes my day.

mxm

9/25/2011 04:38:16 am

BicPent,

I used that language (startlingly premature)because an anon commenter some time back used that language. That commenter (it was not MeAgain) struck me as highly believable. Since it is an adjective that someone else chose to describe a condition, only that individual can provide further definition.

I can speculate a bit though, based on my life experience. It may describe a premature delivery that was a total surprise and the baby may have been on the cusp of viability and or very very small.

Sometimes premature delivery can be anticipated and all measures to prevent such a complication can be undertaken.

If Trig was startlingly premature, it is unconscionable that he was exposed to strangers at such an early age.

Premature twins in my family, who were not considered startlingly premature, were not exposed to anyone but immediate family for many months. Care was taken with appointment times when they were taken to the pediatrician. They were never in a waiting room with any other children. They did not go to the store, to church, to work. They stayed home and they went to the doctor. That was it.

curiouser

9/25/2011 04:47:11 am

Something else I'd love to see someday is a summary of Doc's opinions on baby photos, the wild ride, birthing at Mat-Su...no pressure, Laura. Those posts helped put new light on some of the questionable assumptions that often were treated as fact and could be stumbling blocks for newcomers who had conflicting experiences.

Banyan

9/25/2011 04:59:45 am

Laura is absolutely right about the long-term signs and severe disabilities of extreme prematurity. Again, I know from experience!

I'm not so sure Ruffles had DS at all, and do not find compelling evidence to support this assertion (even the Doc's opinion, which is hard to support based on limited photographic evidence).

I think Ruffle's birth provided a cover story enabling Sarah to acquire (with GOP/Dominionist help and planning) a more presentable Right-to-Life prop -- a high functioning, relatively "healthy" DS baby -- for the campaign.

Then, if the hoax were to blow up in their faces, Palin et al. could revert to Plan B (plan Bristol) and say Sarah was merely covering up for Bristol, and would still seem to be the noble mother.

No one would dare to look any further, Palin and her handlers reasoned.

LakeLucilleLoon

9/25/2011 05:13:08 am

MeAgain = Megan?

Hickory Dickory Dock

9/25/2011 05:15:11 am

Mrs. Gunka, I have just read your rant and a rant is exactly what it is. You appear to make very critical comments concerning other bloggers. We would all benefit if commenters such as you would stick to the facts that you KNOW to be true and that you totally understand before you wildly accuse someone of doing something that he or she may not have actually done.Please stop simply "shooting from the hip" when in actual fact you really do not know what you are talking about.

NSG

9/25/2011 05:33:19 am

LakeLucilleLoon, I really doubt it.

The poster known as Anon238/MeAgain once used the phrase "Me again" in a post, then some picked it up and started referring to her (him?) that way.

Then in the 7:50PM post (Sept 23?), she signed off, "MeAgain (Guess I'm just keeping that name)," and has used it since.

Having watched (and documented) the posts as they came out, it would be an amazing coincidence if this person is actually named Megan!

Also, too, I think we're wise to keep a lid on speculating on MeAgain's real identity -- we don't want to make it even harder for someone to speak up!

Karen

9/25/2011 05:36:54 am

LakeLucilleLoon,
Me-again was the name coined after Anonymous 238 returned to post another comment during her vacation and said "It's me again!" The name was given to her by another commenter and she decided to adopt it.

mxm

9/25/2011 05:38:41 am

Hickory Dickory Dock,

Mrs. Gunka is a beloved friend across many blogs. You and I do not read her comment and come to the same conclusion. I find her advice to be well considered and very wise.

Your ad hominem attack on Mrs. Gunka informs my thinking.

FrostyAK

9/25/2011 05:42:03 am

As I cannot handle live discussions,and some of you seem to have decided to do the Firedoglake live, here's a nugget that I mined from another poster (an anonymous?) on another forum:

" When the subject of an investigation and book lives a tabloid life, how else would a book about that person/family read? Think of the old saying, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." It is what it is, and the Palins are the personification of living a tabloid life."

FrostyAK

9/25/2011 05:53:02 am

I think the most probable scenario is that the RNC TriG was born very premature to Bristle (due to $P ear anomaly evidence), and it wasn't known if he would live. Late 2007 or early 2008. Where, is an unknown; though Dar Miller's former employer with the best NICU would be the most probable location. They may also have recommended Dar as a caregiver after he was released, something that seems not to have taken place. Dar's death is still being hushed up.

When they found out he would live and McC was nominated, the hoax was hatched. By exactly whom, we don't know. Tri G grew and thrived more than expected between birth and his supposed due date, so the date was changed to Wild Ride day and scenario. The 'delivery' of the 'puppy' was made at Mat SuRHC. The real Tri G was presented by the Heaths that day. Many comments were made in the ADN about the hearty, healthy, large baby in the pics taken at MSRHC, obviously not a premie with multiple problems. A substitute had already been procured or was hastily procured through her Dominionist contacts - Ruffles. Ruffles was used from 3 days after the 'delivery', till at least June 2008. Who would notice a deformed ear??? Gotcha...

I expect that $P commandeered the frail Tri G due to monetary concerns (thanks Palinoia), over at least his mother's objections. This is probably the baby they fought over adopting. Who will ever know what the idiot Levi knows or doesn't know? He lies like a rug. At that point Bristle made a statement to her mother - she got pregnant ASAP to show the bitch. So now $P was saddled with another pregnancy for her unwed daughter. We know much of what happened from that time forward. I think TriG has been the one presented from late June 2008 on. We all noticed how BIG he was for a 5 month old at the RNC.

I have worried about Ruffles for some time, but I now think he/she was returned to the Dominionists to either be reunited with his/her mother, or adopted out. This eliminates all of the wilder theories and, IMO, is the most probable/doable scenario. Bristle's mother duck comment was about the borrowed Ruffles.

Thoughts?

Viola_Alex

9/25/2011 05:54:26 am

@FrostyAK - not that it matters much, but you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Just ask composers who have written operas about Anna Nicole Smith, Jerry Springer, R. Nixon. Truman Capote wrote one of the greatest books ever written on the life of a murderer.

The Palins may live a tabloidy life but they have perpetuated one of the great political hoaxes of all time, regardless of who aided them.

cdc

9/25/2011 06:02:38 am

Hickory Dickory Dock,

Mrs. Gunka is a long-time veteran in the battle to find the truth about Sarah Palin. She has earned the respect, admiration & love from many of us that have followed the different blogs that she comments on.

From what I comprehended in reading her comment is that she has grown weary of the in-fighting and games she sees going on. This issue is not a new one and over the last few days it has only gotten worse here.

The way you attacked this very sweet and knowledgeable woman was uncalled for. You owe her an apology.

Banyan

9/25/2011 06:05:52 am

@ FrostyAK

That works with me.

But we must all remember that all we know, or think we know, for certain at this point is that Sarah's birth story for Tri-G (April 18,2008, Matsu Hospital, etc.) makes no sense.

What continues to give me pause is the possibility that this is one of those "Dan Rather-type" Rovian hoaxes that come back to bite the challengers.

What if SP -- at some point -- submits to a DNA test "showing" she is the mother. The IVF/surrogacy theory (and it is ONLY a theory) that I advanced earlier would cover that possibility.

So, along with a thorough DNA analysis showing clear maternity and paternity, we should ask for medical testimony, prenatal care records, ultrasound results, birth certificate -- multiple lines of evidence-- before accepting the story (stories, actually) that Sarah has concocted.

Tom link

9/25/2011 06:16:58 am

@Viola-Alex--You're kind and now I'm self-conscious.
@Mrs. Gunka--There's another blog where someone sends in a little joke a couple of times a week and then the girls chit chat about the joke, and different gels and complain about their husbands arguing the advantages of propane vs. charcoal. Lovely recipes as well. They may evenm be comfortable telling each other what to do there. Maybe you've seen that blog.

I don't speculate about who actually gave birth Trig 'cause it seems so girly (don't get me wrong, I love girls, just don't want to be one, or like one), but I don't think it was Bristol. Just don't that's all.

SunnyVee

9/25/2011 06:17:25 am

yes, Hickory Dickory Dock.
Please note that Mrs. Gunka is very dear to me, as well, as she has a vast history of thoughtful and kind input that represents her well.

I find your attack on her misguided and inappropriate, but can understand that you must assume her to be something she is not.

schoolyard shorthand: Back off my friend, ya big bully.
Wasilla version: Ya oughtta just come on up for a hunting trip with Todd, then :)

PEACE.

Laura Novak link

9/25/2011 06:18:22 am

Frosty, your theory also works for me. I've never strayed far from the theory that either/or Bristol/Levi were the bio parents of this child. But I like the spice you throw into the timeline! Levi's new comments about Bristol and Trig further your theory. Even if he has been paid to shut up and put up (I say IF) then he can still be telling a partial truth.

And I would like to shift back again to the unlikely, if not downright insane image of a dirty looking, unkempt Levi holding a "hours old" Trig in his arms while a grown woman/governor of the state is sleeping feet away. Each addition to this story just makes it all the crazier and unbelievable.

Tom link

9/25/2011 06:22:04 am

About the moniker 'meagain'. I knew her as Anon238 and that's what I still call her and will always call her. 'Meagain' is so Hollywood. Already someone's sleuthed the name into Megan, which, annoyingly, has about ten different spellings. Somebody needs to make up their mind.

mxm

9/25/2011 06:35:21 am

Frosty AK, yours is the 3a, 3b scenario. I know that Bristol is a troubled soul and maybe a narcissist like her mother. Levi is not, he is young and immature. The '3' scenario requires that they both abandon Trig and never look back. Could they have done that?

Karen

9/25/2011 06:41:50 am

@Tom, if you hadn't noticed, the blog owner is a woman. You betray yourself by commenting during Sunday football. Let the ladies, and gents, discuss what they like here, s'il vous plait. Also, although I have considered you a gentleman patiently sitting in a corner eating petit fours during the baby shower while the talk of whose nose looks like whose until now, I see an unfortunate attribute in your response to Mrs. Gunka.

Mrs. Gunka, I am making a lovely pot of homemade chicken noodle soup today. Substituting cilantro for parsley since my husband despise the latter, though I see no difference.

Jolene

9/25/2011 06:49:22 am

Whew, my head is whirling! As a newcomer to the anti-Palin blogs, I've been unaware of the internecine blog rivalries going on. My main concern is to learn as much as I can--and Laura's blog holds a wealth of intelligent, informed, proactive participants in what really is the "intellectual blog." Many times I have no clue what's being discussed. But ever since coming across this Babygate Hoax, and really addressing it myself for the first time this summer, it has consumed me. I've neglected work, chores, friends, husband, family and other interests to find out as much as possible as quickly as possible. Oddly, a comment on Dailykos with a link to Conservatives4Palin led me to a link to Politicususa (a bot linked to Politicusa and was condemned for doing so by other bots), which led me to IM, Joe's blog, Polgates, and finally here. I freely admit to being obsessed with the question: Did she or didn't she? Sometimes after blogging for hours I go to bed with all these questions keeping awake half the night. "How could she?" "How did she?" "Why did she?" And then I remember that smug, sing-songy lying voice crooning, "I hid it. But I didn't try to hide it, because I have really really tight abs I could hide it." What a liar! I for one hope Palin's deceptions get the widest exposure by every means available--books, TV, blogs, MeAgain, word-of-mouth (and it will be done in spite of the MSM, not with their help)--before she has the chance to enter or influence the 2012 Presidential elections. She's a fraud and a poseur and a small-minded vindictive user who rose to prominence on 3-inch heels and a fake baby bump. I won't be posting much because I'm not as knowledgable about Babygate as most of you here, but I read Laura's blog every single day. Thanks to all you for the work you do exposing this Pretender to the Throne. May she never hold public office again.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 06:58:52 am

@curiouser and everspring -

god, I've wanted that birth hoax timeline a thousand times. I always wanted it to be an actual linear timeline so I could visualize the rhythm of the hoax.

AND footnotes, links for sources!

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 07:07:49 am

Jolene,

Have you been to Palin's Deceptions, the blog that started it all? If not, you'll find great background information there.

PD is no longer active, but the old posts read as current as if written yesterday.

Also, the home page has excellent reference material that includes photo essays and a calendar of events.

Welcome!

http://www.palindeception.com/

DebinOH

9/25/2011 07:10:26 am

HickoryDickoryDock - Ms.Gunka has been on these blogs as far as I can remember (I have been on them all for over 3 yrs now). She is frustrated and I can't blame her. It is her opinion. She did not name any particular blogs that she is frustrated with nor any people in particular. She wants answers like we all do. It is frustrating holding out for books, etc.

I think you owe her an apology. You were a little harsh. She knows a lot and can answer questions that go way back so there is no need to make people feel that they are not welcome.

Of my soap box. Sorry I addressed my opinion (on Mudflats). Like I said everyone has something to offer.

Molly

9/25/2011 07:13:01 am

@Frosty AK...I like your theory. I didn't know that comments were made on the ADN about Trig's size. Things that make you go hmmmm.

Did Bristol make those "mother duck" comments in 2007 or 2008? For some reason, I thought they were made in 2007.

Jolene

9/25/2011 07:17:06 am

Viola-Alex

Yes, I've looked at Palin's Deceptions but haven't read everything she posted. There's so much to absorb! I did a "cram course" in Babygate around May of this year when first coming across these blogs, skeptical at first, then stunned into ever-increasing belief. I really really hope Palin does run, just so all of this will finally come out. It will, won't it? God, I hope so. But I will follow your advice and take another look at PD just to better inform myself. This is more fascinating than any mystery! But twice as frightening as any horror novel.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 07:20:31 am

":( now im a mother duck for that baby!"

--Bristol, 6-25-07

anonymous

9/25/2011 07:21:51 am

(Posted this on IM this morning, and re-posting on Laura's site)

Hi Me Again,
Another big thank you from the anonymous crowd of blog readers. I am greatly heartened that there is someone like you, an insider who is willing to share key information that will chip away at Sarah's seemingly impervious armor.
The bloggers have done a great job over the last three years getting the word out on her ridiculous, illegal behavior, but journalists in the MSM have been just as diligent in abdicating their responsibility and doing the research and connecting the dots to show how completely ludicrous and liable the GOP was in releasing this cancer into the national political scene.
Truly, the only way we can hope to eradicate the influence this infestation has on shaping the political landscape is by obtaining key, irrefutable proof from someone deep in the inner circle.
Please keep on pushing through those hurdles. The information you have to share could very well be the tipping point that will remove Sarah's poisonous influence from national discourse, and allow us to finally close this painful chapter in our country's history.
Thank you, Me Again and Gryphen, for all the work you are doing to bring to light this wretched creature's true raison d'etre. She's a nasty, money-grubbing, power hungry hypocrite, whose influence is, thankfully, waning, but still has much too much of an impact. It's time for her to relegated to the dustbins of history.

Tom link

9/25/2011 07:22:18 am

@Karen--I wasn't referring to this blog. It's another also run by a woman. I don't like to be told what to do. I'm a rule follower, generally speaking, who doesn't like the sound of a reprimand. The defense of Mrs. Gunka is nice. She has every right to vent. I have every right to respond. If Laura finds my responses unsuitable I'll either temper them or move on. It's not complicated.

I'm not sure what you meant by giving myself away posting during Sunday footbal. I'm not interested in Sunday football. There's one college football team that I pull for, but could do without. There's one college basketball team that I pull for, my alma mater, but could do without.

The only thing I couldn't do without is literature. If this whole Internet business exploded tomorrow it'd be fine with me. It's here. I use it. I could do without it (notice the theme).

There's nothing I'd rather do than sit in a romm with a bunch of smart women. It's doubly wonderful. There's nothing I'd rather not do than sit in a room with a bunch of women chit chatting. I may have eaten a petit fours or two but I couldn't pick one out of a lineup. And I don't, won't, sit in a corner patiently.

I any of you think I've shown bad manners, well, I don't get taken in by manners. Having manners doesn't necessarily mean you care about other people, could be manners just hide truth (see S. Palin).

Now I'll close the door softly.

curiouser

9/25/2011 07:32:46 am

Viola-Alexa - A timeline (vertical). Links. Footnotes. It would be wonderful!

Molly

9/25/2011 07:37:01 am

Tom, Karen , Mrs Gunka, everyone...how about we all chill out. You are all good people and frustration with Ms. Palin is getting the better of us.

Can we get back to discussing the fraud from the frozen tundra?

Hugs to everyone.

myrna nichols

9/25/2011 07:38:18 am

I like Frosty's scenario; it makes sense. There is one thing that I always wondered about the alcohol and drug use that Bristol and her friends enjoyed. (Don't be shocked. It's documented in Bristol's My Space correspondence and photos). As a second version to Trig's birth story, I have thought about Bristol giving birth to a baby with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. FAS and DS are not easy to diagnose by sight; the babies may look the same. It would be the DNA test which would reveal DS. FAS shows itself later, when certain developmental landmarks are not met. The baby is slower to turn over, crawl, walk, or talk. He could be severely disabled for life. It's Me Again indicated that the baby was born prematurely, maybe with hearing, seeing and other physical problems.

The first thing that people would be concerned about would be the premature baby's survival. No one would be worrying about anything else until they were sure that the baby would live. The doctor could have guessed DS and expressed the thought to Sarah who saw that baby as the credentials to the Right to Life politicians. When they discovered that it was really FAS, Sarah could not be seen as giving birth to THAT kind of baby. That would account for two babies, a frail baby who appeared in only a few pictures while they found an acceptable DS substitute through a religious (church) adoption.

Some one described how casually Levi held 15 day old Trig, balancing the frail infant on his knee while eating a supper. No problem if the baby is going to be replaced with a robust, DS child. They were surprised that scruffy Levi would be allowed to hold a frail infant in the hospital hours after its "birth." Levi did not wear a gown or mask. We know that the baby was supposed to have a hole in its heart and had jaundice. That's no way to treat a five week (or more) premature infant. Sarah also brought that premature baby, days old to an office filled with people and germs. Great idea.

There is every chance that the frail baby did not make it after all. If he did, he would have a life filled with terrible problems, not a good candidate for adoption. Maybe Sarah needs to keep making all that money for the institutional care that he might require, that is if he survived.

I want to add my support to everyone else who is defending Mrs.G. She is sweet, lovely fixture in some blogs, pouring out her heart and writing beautiful posts. She is right. We can accomplish more together than when we are at each others' throats. Even if Sarah is not a candidate, her presence on Fox, giving $100,000 speeches and endorsing other candidates is something that is still dangerous. While I'm at it, a shout out and thanks to Laura for providing this format for an interesting exchange of ideas. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

I also hope that It's Me Again is in touch with any blogger that person can trust. It doesn't hurt to read the remarks. If they are a fabrication, they are not nearly as bad as what Sarah's Pee People create. I tend to believe the posts. If they reveal important information about Sarah, so much the better.

nancydrewed link

9/25/2011 07:41:58 am

@Mrs. Gunka -- I have one quibble with your post and speak strictly for myself. You say "the baby hoax that brought us together..." This hoax, and I believe it was one, was not primarily what kept me spending hours (too many) of my time on the loathsome Mrs. Palin over the past now three years. The deliberate creation and selling of her as a supposedly serious candidate, dolled up and sold to an unsuspecting bloc of always under-informed voters (I include myself in that bloc) was what compelled me to stay with it. The damage she did to women seeking to play their role in national affairs left me heartbroken. Back to "your face is your fortune" and all that. The baby tale is still but one part of a charade that ALL needs exposure. The media story, of course, eventually became the even bigger one, which no matter what happens to their favorite Alaskan, still should be the one to keep us awake at 3 am. "It Can't Happen Here"? It did happen here.

Bill in Baltimore

9/25/2011 07:46:00 am

politicususa is back. Their server was hacked.

Karen

9/25/2011 07:47:05 am

@Tom, yes, I know who she is. She also is the contributor of a lot of the jokes that she and her cohorts enjoy on the other blog. I think the point she was making was that we oughtn't eat our own.

A lot of people have said things on this blog in the last few days and weeks that I haven't liked and because it is Laura's blog I have bit my tongue so as not to be disrespectful in her space of the ethernet.

I have enjoyed your interactions on this blog, but to tell Mrs. Gunka to go off and trade recipes is not your best moment. And, yes, I do look to manners.

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 07:54:12 am

I don't see that anyone has copied this earlier post from meAgain so I'll do it.

=============
Sharon, that is hilarious!

I always go to Laura's intending to read all the comments but there's so many lately, I am lucky to just skim them. Still, I always do a double take when I see my own words zipping by!

Funny item of note:
Some of the emails I have are from before I was around...my source sent them to me in batches when they realized quite a lot was being held back from the FOIA disclosure. I had not ever taken the time to go through them with a fine toothed comb like I am doing now.
Going through these emails, I found one where a female member of Sarah's staff is lamenting over Chuck Heath having released the photo of a heavily pregnant Sarah during her pregnancy with Track. The person was telling Sarah "why did he DO that, people know women tend to get bigger with each pregnancy, not smaller!"
And Sarah replies "nobody will even notice. Can U bring me a coffee".

I thought the "nobody will notice" was classic Sarah. And funny to me given how many, many, many have indeed "noticed".

-MeAgain
=============

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 07:56:10 am

meAgain wrote:

"...quite a lot was being held back from the FOIA disclosure."

Very interesting indeed. I guess Sarah thought no one would notice?

Bill in Baltimore

9/25/2011 08:07:17 am

That last quote by meagain I have seen before on one of the blogs. Something is fishy about that last post.

Bill in BaltImore

9/25/2011 08:11:11 am

The person was telling Sarah "why did he DO that, people know women tend to get bigger with each pregnancy, not smaller!". Sorry, This one

Venefica

9/25/2011 08:15:41 am

@Ginger: Thank you for that additional information. I also too have raised (and re-raised) the glaring problem of the SOA benefits office's "we need Trig's BC" email. And I agree that it's likely the insurance department was waiting for the BC before dispersing additional funds for Trig's care. Why they didn't already -- routinely -- have his BC is very suspicious.

The problem of Trig's birth certificate is vital to unraveling the whole hoax, IMO. As you've noted, there's GOT to be a BC. It was required for medical insurance claims and it was required for Trig's PFD eligibility. So there's either a valid, legal BC with the "wrong" date and "wrong" parents' names, or there's a fraudulent, illegal BC with the "correct" date (4/18/08) and "correct" parents' names (S&T Palin).

I can't imagine what would lead Dr. CBJ to falsify a BC. (Although we know about her strong focus on child sexual abuse, which is always tragic and pitiable.) If she did do so, I'd speculate that it was because of misguided sympathy -- perhaps for a young, abused birth mother -- rather than bribery.

But you're right: Alaska was and is corrupt. And the Palin Mafia is still very much in charge at all levels of government.

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 08:32:06 am

@Venefica

I kind of doubt that CBJ would falsify a birth record; she has too much to lose.

I'm thinking she is an older doctor (40-55) and a doctor with her experience would never let sympathy for a patient's plight overrule her medical oath.

It has been written that she was blackmailed into going along with Sarah's hoax. I would tend to believe that before I would believe she let misguided sympathy rule the day and put her own future at risk.

Tom link

9/25/2011 08:32:51 am

@Karen--I did not tell Mrs. Gunka "go off and trade recipes. I was describing the blog that Mrs. Gunka frequents, is almost essential to, that is like a hen's club. There you go. Now I said it. Mrs. Gunka doesn't have to "go off" there. It's her home base.

You look to manners yet you'll surely agree that things aren't always as they seem. The British are kknown for their manners. Tell that to the victims of their colonization. Alabamians are very polite. They speak in euphemisms. Never say what they really mean. A Yank needs a translator. They also lynch men, AS AN AFTERTHOUGHT. The publicly polite and oh so sweet S. Palin is a devil, and why we're even here.

Was it KIpling that wrote the female species is more deadly than the male (but as long as they're mannerly).

You want sizzle. It's all yours. I'll take steak.

I notice that it's all right for Mrs. Gunka to say her peace but exception to it is being taken to the few who respond unfavorably. Maybe we are what we hate afterall.

Mrs Gunka

9/25/2011 08:35:23 am

Thanks everyone for "sticking up" for me. Yes, I'm older than dirt and been here since the beginning. We old-timers on the Palin blogs all know each other. We were in the same spot as the newbies those many years ago. Most of us have had babies, worked with the medical field, or love babies. We were shocked to see what was unfolding before our eyes. One by one, our curiosity led us to the blogs for some answers. Many of us have had preemies and knew it was a lie! Then she opened her mouth and we knew we had a problem on our hands.

I'm 72 years old,married to the same man for 52 years, with 4 children, 7 grand children,and 3 great children. I was a nurse that worked in OB/GYN in the days of stethoscopes and rubber gloves as our tools and a lot of common sense. I haven't worked for 48 years, but most of my friends and classmates have. I kept up with progress thru 3 generations of babies. Much has changed, but the process of having babies has not! The tools have changed for sustaining life of all of us. I am a caretaker 24/7 and I sit here watching my husband die one cell at a time as the result of cancer in every bone, both kidneys and the brain. I too am fighting breast cancer and post-polio syndrome and have to get around with a walker. I have used my nurses training everyday of my life. I volunteered at the school clinic for many years and try to keep up with the newest literature. I was taught to observe to make instant responses from the norm. I enjoy studying people and what makes them tick.I feel we all deserve a degree in something for staying with this subject. I am not tech-savy,but my grandkids are and they encouraged me to get a computer to keep my chemo brain activated.

My husband was a real rocket scientist and one of 12 who figured out how to send the rockets to the moon and satellites into orbit for 30 years. He did not want a computer at home as that was his sanctuary away from work!

Neither of us were uneducated nor did we blame anyone when things didn't go our way. (I could write a book on that!!)

We have reached a point of very little new evidence as the books and interviews have shut Sarah down. If you want to know everything that has happened chronologically, go to Palindeceptions, Palingates, Polticalgates and it's all laid out for you in the sidebars with about every picture that was saved or found since the McCain campaign erased everything. You can read and see for yourself.

After all this time, you can spot a bot or someone trying to throw us a curve so fast you don't take anything they say for granted. It is fun to spare with them on a slow day! Many Anon's have brought us information we didn't know. Let them talk. You can decide if it's worthy or not.

On Palingates we seriously discuss Palin or her role in politics every morning and in the afternoons we unwind with fun and pictures while we read all the other blogs and discuss it between recipes or our pets. We are a fun and caring bunch and don't let Sarah control our every thought. If you don't enjoy having some fun, don't visit. It is the most caring bunch of people I have ever met. Politicalgates is too, but they are the younger ones who can gather info from every site and dissect and spit out the shaft. To make the perfect recipe of life, you need many ingredients and know how to blend them for perfection. Every blog has it's own ingredient. If you keep using the same thing in every recipe, it gets very boring. I like them all but not one gets all my attention. Laura has opened up her food for thought to many new people but she too does not have the answer we are all looking for. To be able to connect the dots, you need all the dots! She has offered us some new ones and it is valuable, but even the doctors and journalists don't have all the dots in this particular subject. We are all playing a game of CLUE and we don't have them all yet. Where's Waldo?????

Owlwolf

9/25/2011 08:38:03 am

Thank you, Mrs. Gunka for an excellent post.

We do all need to stick together and focus on exposing SP. Obviously, the different blogs serve their purposes accordingly in their own way. I visit several everyday and enjoy them for their variety.

Why are the few attacking Mrs. Gunka for expressing her own opinion that is shared by me and probably numerous others? Are you palinbots? Diversity in opinions is what will get to the bottom of SP and her evilness. We have to be able to support each other or divided we fall and SP wins.

If a person cannot express a different opinion or an opinion period without being criticized, the the blog is no better than those for SP.

There was no call to be so harsh on Mrs.G's comment. I hope those who were critical will apologize and it will stop or I will not visit here anymore.

I forgot to add that I'm a Mrs.G-bot from way back...and absolutely adore her.

Rationalist

9/25/2011 08:46:15 am

This us a little random, but I just want to add that I've never given the same credence as some to the "mother duck" comment. To me it just sounded like Bristol wad complaining about having to babysit Piper.

Tom link

9/25/2011 08:53:33 am

@Owlwolf

"There was no call to be so harsh on Mrs.G's comment. I hope those who were critical will apologize and it will stop or I will not visit here anymore."

"So harsh" is relative. You have a high bottom or low threshold, take your pick, for harshness it seems.

I have no need to apologize. I was raised by nine women. Mrs. Gunka is about the right age to be my middle sister. I've responded to her the same as I would to a sister. I'm guilty of being sarcastic. I'm guilty of that all the time. How else does a person survive.

9/25/2011 09:09:41 am

I watched Joe on CSPAN's Booknotes and it was the best interview yet. No sex, race, drugs. He discussed Ch.19, called himself Trignostic, said if true was biggest (I think that's right) political hoax ever.

One good line was when he said Palin talks about God opening doors for her. He said something like that if God is her doorman, why would a mere author even matter to her.

Melly

9/25/2011 09:12:17 am

Tom, I thought you closed the door softly. Please, please, just drop it.

nancydrewed link

9/25/2011 09:13:59 am

Hmmm. My experience is that when the phrases "bot", and "Palinbot" start getting tossed around frequently, game's up. I'm pretty sure that's what started making Joe McGinniss impatient with comments. Could we retire those phrases, pretty please? I'm not fond of troll-spotting either, you know -- one can read something and draw one's own conclusion. Bot-alerts waste time as far as I'm concerned. imho As we like to say.

More of "The Rogue" today. Then off to locate hand-sanitizer. This is foul stuff, no matter what the juicy bits the MSM can't see beyond and put in perspective.

Cheers all.

SLQ

9/25/2011 09:15:05 am

Bill: "That last quote by meagain I have seen before on one of the blogs. Something is fishy about that last post."

I have never seen that particular quote before. I have, however, seen lots of her e-mails from the dump that mention coffee, as in "let's go get some, "can you bring me some," "can I get you some."

Ottoline

9/25/2011 09:19:55 am

Shailey -- Thank you for posting that info. I'm so overwhelmed with reading that I might otherwise have missed it. I'm sending you lots of good wishes for a good future.

Tom link

9/25/2011 09:20:17 am

For Viola and ottoline:

http://www.thehowlingfantods.com/dfw/

Also a review of the commencement speech I mentioned. I can't find the link to it I had and as I said it's no longer available. Can I get it scanned into my email from hard copy or something like that? Here. This is very good:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/books/review/Bissell-t.html?_r=1&8bu&emc=bub1

Molly

9/25/2011 09:20:54 am

@SLQ...I agree about the coffee. I think it was a code word for something else.

FrostyAK

9/25/2011 09:22:10 am

@B, do you have a link to the c-span interview?

SLQ

9/25/2011 09:22:39 am

"We are all playing a game of CLUE and we don't have them all yet."

OK, I'm gonna take a guess. I think it was Bristol in Anchorage with a limited insurance policy. :))

Unfortunately, as you said Mrs. G, no one can yet tell me if I've won the game or must search for more clues. I do hope Anon238/MeAgain can move the game forward.

SLQ

9/25/2011 09:27:24 am

Molly, I actually don't think it's a code word or not. Where I live, my friends and I use those terms all the time, and you'd see them in my e-mail. We do go get coffee and meet for coffee, etc., and this usually means what another friend calls "frou frou espresso drinks."

So I don't see anything unusual in that, although I do agree it could be a code word.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 09:29:35 am

Did anyone go to the firedoglake (?) event? I couldn't figure it out. Also would like the cspan link.

Tom link

9/25/2011 09:33:11 am

Melly,

Wellllllll...for you. But if I write your name in an otherwise blank post you'll know I'm feeling some heat.

9/25/2011 09:48:11 am

frostyAK, I also think Ruffles was a borrowed baby. Would Levi noticed the switch? Did Levi see newborn Trig?

As for startling prematurity, it is a matter of perception. At least some of SP's pregnancies went to full term or overdue. (evidence: canoeing before Willow's birth story, red maternity shirt photo.). If Bristol was the mom she may have expected to be overdue. If Trig came early but not extremely so (say 4 weeks, but she didn't expect him for 5) then his early arrival would seem startling.

Curiouser, if you go forward with the timeline I'd be interested in helping with research.

comeonpeople

9/25/2011 09:51:18 am

@Jolene:
Just weanted to say that you my heart good! I really enjoy hearing new people's experience about seeing the light about this hoax. I think the tight abs video is Sarah's show stopper. I am so happy it was the clincher for you. If only it could be shown nationwide...in the middle of DWTS: Breaking News, this just in.....lol.
Welcome and do what you can to educated tohers on this hoax!

@SLQ your clue answers made me lol. I'll guess: Sarah, with a boat seat cushion at MatSu.

comeonpeople

9/25/2011 09:54:17 am

oops: @SLQ: Also, the only reason I think coffee is a code word is becasue there was one email from either Stapleton or Frye in which Sarah replied to a request for coffee that she was going out of town that afternoon but tomorrow coffee would be good? Something in the wording or the context of that email didn't seem to fit a cup of Java.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 09:55:58 am

@Viola-Alex

"Did anyone go to the firedoglake (?) event?"

Yes, Im just back from there and I am totally bummed out by this bit of news:

Joe McGinniss September 25th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
141
In response to RevBev @ 128 (show text)
Terry Gross has declined to have me on her show. As have all other NPR shows. My fifteen seconds as part of a Folkenflik report on All Things Considered is all I get from NPR. I’m told they are scared of losing more federal funding if right wing Congresspeople complain that they are “promoting” my book.

FYI, both Morning Joe and Keith Olbermann had me booked for last week, but canceled when they saw which way the wind was blowing.

I’d like people to know that about Olbermann. First, he attacked my book on Bill Maher without having read it–then, when the publicity director of Crown Publishing said to his producer that she hoped he would read it before interviewing me on his own show, he canceled me.

Rachel Maddow also refused to have me on.

I am a huge Terry Gross fan - have even seen her speak in person - my respect know no bounds but I really thought she was more independent than this. She recently did TWO shows on Dominionism and I was so looking forward to hearing her interview with McG. Rats.

http://fdlbooksalon.com/2011/09/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-joe-mcginniss/

everspring

9/25/2011 09:57:12 am

curiouser, viola-alex - anyone that is in a position to work on a timeline - that would be absolutely fantastic! I know I suggested it, but have absolutely no time to start it. I'm in the midst of preparing one house to rent and purchasing another. In addition to the physical work, there is a mountain of paperwork that needs to be addressed. I barely have time to visit all these blogs to keep up! But major kudos to whomever can get the timeline off the ground.

Sharon_too_Also

9/25/2011 10:01:44 am

Formatting frustration (not the same as typo Laura :-)

McGinnis stopped at: "Rachel Maddow also refused to have me on."

The part after that was me venting.

Melly

9/25/2011 10:10:05 am

Up, Frostly, I fail to see how anyone holding and cuddling Ruffles would not notice his ear when he doesn't have a hat on, as in Palin's kitchen. Not just notice it but ask about it out of plain concern. Talk about startling. Even somebody as basically noncommittal as Levi. Actually, it's ears. I always thought it was just his right ear but a series of pix on someone's blog--Syrin's?--in the last few months showed Trig's left ear was ruffled too. Doubly unmissable! So I've always been extremely skeptical about anything coming out of Levi, and Mercede for the same reason, for saying they never noticed.

nancydrewed link

9/25/2011 10:14:04 am

@Sharon -- That is so disturbing about NPR. It is becoming something of a pattern I'm afraid. They've now joined the ranks of the "we're all neutral here" journalism of the day. They have recently broadcast hands-off pieces on the Tea-Party antics, Eric Cantor and his reported "fair-mindedness" and how new attacks on Planned Parenthood don't mean what they DO mean (making abortions impossible, for all intents and purposes, in Kansas and Virginia.

I guess we're learning that intimidation is working. Terry Gross, I'd suggest, is our canary-in-coal mine moment. She has talked to everyone about everything. Very sad news.

Sunday

9/25/2011 10:19:46 am

I "watched" the Firedog Lake event. Nothing new. My takeaway was that the MSM is not likely to pay much attention to the book. To me that's good news and bad news. The good news is that the MSM is no longer taking Palin seriously about much of anything; the bad news is that the MSM is no longer taking Palin seriously about much of anything.

The C-Span interviewer asks straightforward, non-confrontational questions and allows McG to respond at length, uninterrupted -- a style I dare say most MSM viewers would characterize as "boring." But if you want to hear McG's point of view, it's the place to go, as close to a Charlie Rose or Terry Gross interview as I think it is likely we're going to get.

Ottoline

9/25/2011 10:26:03 am

Sharon_Also_Too: I'm shocked at your bad news re Terry Gross and PBS. We've got to do something. I guess this supports the idea that we've had a from-the-top media blackout on the BabyHoax all along. "totally bummed" is a good way to put it: me too. This puts into a new light Floyd's observation above that the long-version video of the Behar-McG interview was disappeared. VERY VERY SCARY.

I'm late to the party but wanted to say that I too love mrsgunka, who (as you slowly get to know her) had led an amazingly interesting life and has much wisdom as well as garden-variety knowledge to share. And some great recipes.

Speaking of recipes, I guess Tom you all missed the ploy that a few of us have been using at Palingates: when our pals there seem to be getting embroiled in a pointless troll conversation, one or another of us posts a recipe. I've posted several myself. Not a perfect solution, but it's worked pretty well a few times to remind ourselves to come to our senses and ignore rather than argue.

Re blog wars: call me insensitive, but until this discussion, I was not aware of them -- just that different blogs had different strokes and interests. I follow only a few, so perhaps I was napping. There are understandable differences and tensions at times, as how could there not be? I don't see it as a problem.

Jolene -- Glad you posted, and I'd like to encourage you to post with questions. Sometimes it's the new person with the seemingly naive questions that leads to the explosive new direction. Two examples: I too saw the Gusty photo all over the web a couple of times long before we started discussing it, and I too felt it confirmed she really was pregnant,even though I paid little attention to the photos. Second, I had stared at the enlarged headshots of Ruffles and the other baby or babies MANY times without seeing the ear deformity, which is now so glaringly obvious. So I hope you will post often!

Wow. PBS. What a shame.

Balzafiar

9/25/2011 10:41:15 am

More from meAgain...

=====
Anonymous 1:36PM,
No...people like Gryphen and Malia Litman are the "Great American Figures". I'm just an old hen who got sick of seeing Sarah dump on someone I care about. (and the fact that I can be a bit of a gossip probably doesn't hurt)

I mentioned earlier that I tried to read the comments at Laura Novak's but there are so many I just end up skimming them. Just now when I was scrolling through a comment caught my eye--it said that I "definitely love the attention". I feel it was uncalled for due to my insistence on staying here in this little Broomfield corner; the blog equivalent of a church mouse. I specifically asked Gryphen not to "highlight" my posts in any way or put them on the front page.

SO...suck it, neener neener, nuts to you bub, so on and so forth. (directed only to the person(s) who called me an attention floozie)

-MeAgain

3:01 PM
=====

Laura Novak link

9/25/2011 10:42:20 am

Okay, I'm up to Chapter 17 now. I like the way Joe weaves his own experience living in Alaska into the Sarah story. Without it, the drumbeat of her insanity would be overwhelming.

A subtle mention about her mother, Sally, later echoed in some of the domestic description about Sarah's house, is the strong hint of depression. Two women who can't care for their children. The word is never used, but that is my strong takeaway. And why not? Sally had 4 children in 5 years in a cold, dark climate. I'd be that way too. Sarah might not have been properly mothered. Both, it seems, were married to bullies. It's the subtle threads in the the story that stand out for me. That, and the Dominionism. She was the "chosen one" from way back when. And as stupid as a box of rocks. Wow.

Yes, let's change the subject from previous talk of all the blogs etc. I'll have a new post up tomorrow morning. But for now, will try to finish Joe's book.

And as for these updates about who would not interview Joe, I am truly disheartened. The rabid right has frightened even PBS with their antics. It's very sad indeed. But what of Olbermann? Why him?

Colacarat

9/25/2011 10:50:24 am

Mrs Gunka,

I visit Palingates in the morning for the news. I visit Palingates for the open threads in the afternoon to see if you have posted any new jokes! Thanks for keeping it real.

Conscious at last!

9/25/2011 10:51:42 am

@ Frosty, Up or anyone else-

I have a question (and I have no strong opinion either way): Why do you feel that Ruffles is a borrowed baby rather than the fragile child that Bristol gave birth to in early 2008? ... just wondering.

It does seem clear that Ruffles is not the RNC Trig.

FEDUP!!!

9/25/2011 10:51:55 am

Haven't read the responses, but just wanted to say that I *LOVE* Joe's book! Very well written, and gives a very chilling insight into the Palin Mafia. Reminds me a lot of *The Godfather* book/movie!

Laura Novak link

9/25/2011 10:53:21 am

P.S. Go Raider Nation. Yessss!!!!! Need I say more?

mxm

9/25/2011 10:53:34 am

Olbermann v. McGinniss may have just been a clash of egos.

Via the book agent, Olbermann was told to read the book before the interview as he hadn't read the book before the scathing review he gave. Olbermann then canceled the interview.

I would also like to change subjects and see if beginning tomorrow, we can all help Shailey get her press release noticed. The weekend is a down time for such activity, but if we all got on the job tomorrow we make make some headway.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 10:55:29 am

I will not be contributing to my local PBS station any more. That does it. Their recent "evenhandedness" has been driving me nuts, and playing to both sides, when one side is nuts, is not balanced reporting. We've had Palin-glory rammed down our throats for 3 years, so where is the alternative viewpoint?

I may send an email to Terry Gross, objecting.

nancydrewed link

9/25/2011 11:17:27 am

@Viola-Alex, Ottoline -- I have some experience trying to nurture a local NPR outlet struggling along. Don't pull back your local donation, but do contact the national offices. Many local affiliates are extremely fragile, so as a blanket (maybe your market is running well in the black) I'd hate to see donations being reduced because of NPR honchos bowing to current political pressures. That would be a most unfortunate outcome. NPR is a lifeline in many rural communities across the West, where I live.

Well, also too, and of course... NPR is not PBS. :-)

Ottoline

9/25/2011 11:24:42 am

V-A re PBS: Well that was what I meant, above, about the false-equivalency for the nutty 1%. But V-A, I disagree about terminating our funding. How about all of us renewing (or joining) right now via a letter that explains that they can cash the check only if they air a longish Terry Gross interview with McG.

Plus a paragraph on their other recent self-limitation on the stories nancydrewed mentioned.

I feel like PBS is our last MSM hope.

Tom link

9/25/2011 11:29:35 am

Viola, Ottoline--Did you see my links above. Thought you'd be interested.

Ottoline, I go there rarely anymore. It's like a chat room, not my alley.

Laura--Are you in Oakland? Wondering 'cause I have a female friend who's a prof at Berkeley and lives in Oakland. Keeps a horse out at Livermore. Sound familiar?

curiouser

9/25/2011 11:30:55 am

B - Thanks for the reminder about the CSPAN Book TV interview. I caught most of it and it was excellent! And then, just before sharing the bad news that this was the last airing, I found it in the video library.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/301588-1

I think it's worth repeating what he said about the hoax with the full quote now that the video is up:

(33:25)"It would be the most appalling hoax every played on the American people by a political figure. And that would be a terrible accusation to make without powerful proof."

Hearing Joe say this hit me hard. My reaction was, 'Yes, of course the media can't make the accusation.' It's enough for them to put the questions out there and demand that Palin provide the powerful proof that she was pregnant. At the same time, effort should be made to continue investigating.

Another good quote (31:54): 'If she had lived a different kind of life, if she was a different kind of person, it would have been a different kind of book."

Up - I'm making a note of your name. I have someone I might be able to strong-arm into setting up a website. I'll revisit the possibility in about 2-weeks when I hope I've dug myself out from under my pile of stuff.

9/25/2011 11:31:38 am

@FrostyAK. Try this link to Joe on CSPAN:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/TheRog

Ottoline

9/25/2011 11:32:10 am

I agree, nancydrewed, and I hoped someone with knowledge of how best to protest would speak up. And you have!

Of course, they will have to return our checks if we make them conditional. No one can do business that way. Do you think we could generate enough checks/letters to make an impact?

I wish I could think of a better ploy, one that would make it easier for them to agree, change course.

My guess is that all/most NPR staff except the top level of management would support our point, but it's clearly that top level that can call the shots on this.

9/25/2011 11:38:30 am

Rachel Maddow can do no wrong in my book. She did not interview the Game Change authors either, as I recall, and even said on one show that she did not like that book. I suspected she found the attacks on Eliz. Edwards unnecessary and distasteful.

If Palin runs for Pres., Rachel might cover the Dominionist angle since she has stayed on top of the C-Street story, and she might invite Joe then. Until then, Rachel will ignore Palin and books about her, imo.

Ottoline

9/25/2011 11:41:03 am

Tom -- thank you. I'm a huge rush today, except to stop and lament NPR. It's on my list and I thank you. I remember I sent a fave friend the lobster piece. What a departure for Gourmet mag that was. Thx again.

Tom link

9/25/2011 11:43:01 am

Maddow weekends or has a place in the Northampton/Amherst, MA area. Buddy of mine ran into her at the Stop and Shop in Hadley. Joe lives in Amherst.

nancydrewed link

9/25/2011 11:44:01 am

To reiterate: PBS. NPR. Entirely different operations.

Don't penalize PBS for the NPR waltz into false-equivalency-land. And don't hobble any fragile/struggling small market NPR outlet. That would be a real nail in the coffin. Public radio is maybe the last stand in some ways. Cause the big guys don't give a rip about it.

9/25/2011 11:44:33 am

conscious, my reasons for thinking Ruffles is the rent-a-baby...

RNC Trig's ears have that same strange malformation as Sarah. Since Laura's doc friend raised that, I've been checking out everyone I know and haven't seen another set of double-bridge ears.

Simplicity... Easier to get a white newborn than a baby with DS who also looks like a Palin. Children up for adoption sometimes go to a foster family for days, weeks or months while awaiting adoption. SP had the connections through church groups, CBJ, etc to get one of these kids for a couple of weeks. Then the child goes to either another foster family or adoptive family, no one is the wiser, and the real Trig is introduced.

This also has the potential to fit w the church fire which destroyed files, if the adoption/fostering situation was facilitated by the church. They would have a record of Ruffles' birth name. (I have personal experience with a similar situation of a church inadvertently releasing birth name info on a child adopted through the church.)

Reading The Rogue has led me to understand why so many clergy & others in Wasilla are killed in auto accidents. Bars open to 5 am, and townsfolk defending that right? Yikes. The more I read, the more appalled I am about SP's prominence.

anonymous

9/25/2011 11:44:50 am

Another post from Me Again:

Anonymous at 3:03,

Fair enough.

But until YOU get acquainted with your apostrophe, I consider you nothing more than your mother's daughter, desperately trying to block out any source of light which will illuminate the truth.

Anonymous at 3:23, that is truly wonderful, and makes me so happy. The special Olympics is an incredible organization, and I find myself filled with desperate hope for Trig; that the people caring for him nurture his abilities and foster self confidence...and maybe one day we'll see him atop one of their podiums--wouldn't that be fabulous? I would love for Trig to one day be able to tell Sarah she can take her "letter from God" which basically says he'll forever be a dependent lump, and eat it.

(When I refer to "Trig"...I guess I'm talking about any of 'em, all of 'em...because the truth is I don't know how many there have been or who among them actually were born into the Palin family.)

-MeAgain

And here are the posts Me Again references above:

3:03 PM Anonymous said...

Some here will believe anything that fits their anti-Palin agenda. Without any verification or proof of knowledge, they are taking everything that ME AGAIN is saying and treating it as the gospel truth.

I have yet to read anything from ME AGAIN that couldn't have been written by someone who is familiar with the four years of blog press on Sarah.

If we're going to fight against Palin, we have to fight with the truth... and goodness knows there's already enough of that out there to hang her.

Innuendo and rumor only weaken our fight.

Until Jesse says shes for real (and I think he's just waiting on her to prove it)... I continue to treat the ME AGAIN posts as nothing more than creative writing.

3:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Special Olympics got a donate from me today in honor of Trig and as a quiet thank you to MeAgain.

curiouser

9/25/2011 11:51:23 am

Is it PBS or NPR...or both that are refusing interviews? Maybe it would help to send them links to the CSPAN and WNYU interviews to show them what it looks like when the book isn't sensationalized. This 'spiral of silence' really needs to stop. I strongly believe Joe and the book will be vindicated and become a classic study of what happens when the media abdicates.

And we need to take back the House of Representatives and keep the Senate and Presidency in 2012.

Katie Taylor

9/25/2011 11:52:34 am

"why did he DO that, people know women tend to get bigger with each pregnancy, not smaller!"

Bill said "That last quote by meagain I have seen before on one of the blogs. Something is fishy about that last post".

While the comment sounded familiar I can not state with certainty whether I had seen it before but I have a problem accepting that Sarah allowed even one of her staff in on any part of the pregnancy conspiracy or that this staff member would so casually question Chuck Heath's judgement with Sarah. The picture in question I believe is the one that was released after she had gotten the VP nomination and can be seen at the link below.

http://www.palinpeytonplace.com/uploads/1/6/2/4/1624313/3122640.jpg

Scenarios that involve the participation or even knowledge by people outside the Palin/Johnston/Heath circle are difficult for me to reconcile sometime.

Ottoline

9/25/2011 11:57:24 am

Tom -- The writer you cited committed suicide by hanging. A chilling fact before reading more.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 12:00:36 pm

Dear Yall,

You're right about PBS, NPR. My local station is funded by Joan Kroc. It has had financial improprieties and full coffers for years. But I'd be lost without it. It is my main news source. I've just annoyed by NPR's movement to fluff, listener contributions, and evenhandedness.

PBS also airs the BBC, which I am listening to more and more.

Maybe Joe needs to try there! The Brits have been doing our research for years, on all our political silliness.

Thanks, Tom, for the link! Your sisters may be tough cookies, but remember that us chitchattin' women appreciate a man who's not afraid to show his vulnerability. Gets'em every time.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 12:07:31 pm

Ottoline - as did so many great writers, that I'm sad to say more. It's grueling to live with truth and true artists more than anyone, do. I had no idea that David Foster Wallace wrote about food (Consider the Lobster, which is a nod to MFK Fisher, so I must read) or politics. Again, I'm learning so much more than about Palin while I'm here.

Grateful to all here. And I never knew that that was how the recipes of Palingates came to be. :-)

Marie

9/25/2011 12:12:59 pm

Punishing local NPR affiliates is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The local stations are often operating on a shoestring, especially in the smaller cities and rural areas. (Go visit one of these stations sometime if you don't believe me---I did so recently, and it was a real eye-opener.) These local stations have no control over the content coming from the national NPR powers that be, nor can they easily cut themselves off from NPR without suffering greatly.

It might make more sense to spread the story that the book or its message is being hushed up by major media outlets, NPR, etc. It's the whole "spiral of silence" story again, but with a more targeted focus---"What's in Joe McGinnis' book that the mainstream media DOESN'T want you to know? Has NPR sold out?" Or whatever. Post to blogs, make a viral video, make a catchy website, go on Facebook, whatever works to get the message out to millions of people that something is not right and that the major media outlets are responsible. That would attract more attention to the problem than a handful of cranky "I'm cancelling my membership" notices.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 12:24:51 pm

@curiouser - It was NPR .... top brass put the kaboosh on anything McGinniss.

What on earth are they teaching in journalism school these days? Is journalism even a university course any more? What has happen to personal courage? Will no one in the MSM ever step out of the box and say that what is happening to that profession is just wrong and dangerous? Laura, help! Talk me down.

Karen

9/25/2011 12:31:40 pm

@Sharon, As for the Joe interviews, I think the horse is already out of the barn and it doesn't matter all that much that he isn't covered on MSN and NPR. Frankly, the majority of their viewers and listeners already know that a hoax of huge proportions was foisted on the American people when Sarah Palin was chosen to run, and I'm not even talking about the pregnancy belly.

As for the media as a whole, well, that's a bit more difficult to talk you down from. Let's hope the blogosphere picks up where the MSM fails. And, as they say in the South, "Bless their little hearts."

Tom link

9/25/2011 12:32:18 pm

Viola & Ottoline,

I know a lot about DFW and yeah he hung himself but he 'didn't shoot the master' (read the NYT link and you'll get it).

There's a sort of bio already out on him by a Rolling Stone writer I think. Whatever, I read it. Maybe go to his Wiki page and check the links below. Also, the Howling Fantod website I linked is all DFW. I spent time looking into him, the person. His appeal lies in his compassion for humanity. It shows. If the girls will excuse mre again, DFW described serious literature as writing about "what it's like to be a fucking human being in this world."

Pick up the two books of essays I noted. Your eyes will open. We lost a Joyce, a Pynchon, when he cashed in. DFW suffered greatly from depression since his teen years. It's a long story. I find some stuff and link it.

Tom link

9/25/2011 12:36:18 pm

Viola--About vulnerability, I know my way around. For women who read mostly romance stuff (I call it mayonnaise) I'll recommend something light and sweet like Fannie Flagg's 'Standing in a Rainbow'. Tell them it'll make them feel cozy. Oh, don't worry, Viola, I can be a devil.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 12:37:16 pm

@Marie - those are really good ideas.

I think that our local station (No. California) still has some of it's own programing time .... wonder if McG's publishers are looking at some local, larger markets. He said during the interview today that his book promotion was going to last for three months so perhaps there is still time for things to open up.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 12:51:53 pm

here's Terry Gross's Contact email address should you care to contact her re: Joe's book. I just did.

http://help.npr.org/npr/includes/customer/npr/custforms/contactus.aspx?sid=3

Sir Guestalot

9/25/2011 12:53:43 pm

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/25/140761994/biblical-womanhood-a-year-of-living-by-the-book

For those worried about NPR's slant to the right, have a read of this story above.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 01:02:24 pm

@Karen - appreciate the talk down attempt .... NPR .... kinda like preaching to the choir .... but I was just so disappointed about Terry Gross.

@Viola-Alex - do I spy an MFK Fisher fan? Most beautiful food and life writer ever. Have read every word she published - she made me fall in love with France long before I got there .... and I actually got to meet her in her home in Sonoma a couple of years before she died. I tried not to be struck speechless and I still have the little jar of home dried Herbs de Provence she gave me.

Sorry for my digression folks, but Viola-Alex just reminded me a spot of beauty in amongst all this SP ugliness. Sigh.

Ottoline

9/25/2011 01:05:08 pm

V-A: thx for the Terry Gross email. I wondered if anyone else would think about "Consider the Oyster." I should have known you would. Prob others here, too. It used to be a big goal, a longing, to have a lobster roll at the right spot on the E coast. Now that I read that article, and once I learned there's lots of mayo in them, -- not so much anymore.

I wonder if a scandal about NPR not covering this book might be the thing to boost readership of McG's and Fred's book? Can we all resolve to write in to Terry Gross? I know I will. Laura -- how about a post on this in a few days? After a few of us have sent our emails, and maybe Fred's book is available. We'll have to read it first.

Tom link

9/25/2011 01:07:06 pm

Viola--'Consider the Lobster' is more about the lobster as a victim than as cuisine. Still you won't be disappointed. He'll explain his case and then some.

Ottoline

9/25/2011 01:07:34 pm

Sharon_Too_Also: No, don't listen to the ones trying to talk you down. We should all be climbing up on that ledge with you! This is outrageous and scary.

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 01:17:12 pm

Dear Ottoline and Sharon - yes, you're right. connecting in the void on MFKF (as opposed to Palin) is downright magic. Sharon-T-A, you met her!!??? I'm awed. I would have been far too frightened. I read her first as a young bride in Appalachia, and she saved my life. A year ago, I lived in Sonoma for 8 mo, just down the road from Last House, and thought about her every time I passed. That Palin garners any attention as a woman angers me because of all the woman I so deeply deeply admire.

I intend to post Terry G's email address everywhere and urge those who know her show to write.

(and I do mean it when I say I'd avoided D F Wallace, but if he cribbed MFK's title for his own, I'll give him a shot)

FrostyAK

9/25/2011 01:23:08 pm

"Why do you feel that Ruffles is a borrowed baby rather than the fragile child that Bristol gave birth to in early 2008?"

The RNC TriG has the ear anomaly (double bridge) that $P has. He could well be a baby birthed by or fathered by any very close relative of hers that carried the genetics for it. The rumors about Bristle being pregnant were rampant before SP announced the miracle 6 week pregnancy (even dogs would be jealous of 6 weeks!)

I think that the premie born in late 2007 or early 2008 thrived much better than expected. And that caused the Wild Ride story - to present him before he was huge. The hospital pic with Heaths is not a premie, but he COULD be the 1 to 4 months of growth by a premie. I think he looks about 8 to 9 months in late August 2008 in the Lion King pics. Some premies thrive well, as do some babies with DS.

I cannot find the article at ADN announcing the birth. Even if I could, I would not know which of the 10 ID's I would have posted under. They blocked 9 identities before I stopped trying... I do remember comments about the picture, and how un-premie-like he looked. Ooops, get a stand-in.

All of the old ADN palin articles seem to have had all comments removed. Now I can't guess why that might be, can you? Could it be LUCRATIVE STATE CONTRACTS?

If the pics at the house are actually from Levi's b-day, then they found Ruffles quickly. Think about it, they would have to take whatever baby was available, even one with ruffled ears. *I* didn't notice the ruffled ears before it was pointed out to me, and I'm guessing few others did. Levi is not the brightest crayon in the box, so I doubt he noticed, even being there and holding the baby.

That's my theory and I'm stickin' to to it! Until somebody provides a better one. :-)

Tom link

9/25/2011 01:30:37 pm

Viola and Ottoline--

Here's a review from NPR about the sort of bio I mentioned and below it is an excerpt from the bio/road trip that'll better explain DFW's suicide.

curiouser

9/25/2011 01:31:57 pm

@Sharon - Thanks for cluing me in!

The right wing backlash against 'The Rogue' and the media blackout, especially NPR's fear of losing funding, would make an excellent 60 Minutes topic.

Also, too, I'd love to see Joe on the Letterman show. The two of them share the letter 'P' designation compliments of 'you know who' and Dave would make it a fun interview. Though I doubt Dave is up for the challenge.

Ottoline

9/25/2011 01:32:17 pm

I just emailed NPR. Hope you all will too.

VA and Sharon: Do you remember "radiator tangerines"? A recipe by MFKF (Hi Tom!): Peel tangerine(s) and separate into sections. put a bath towel over your old-time hot radiator, spread tangerine segments over towel. Return a day later to find crackly-skinned juicy tangerine pieces. Yum!

Viola-Alex

9/25/2011 01:35:23 pm

meAgain @ IM:

"Wow, it sounds like it's LUCKY that I've not managed to read many comments at Laura Novak's. It sounds like maybe I better stick close to my little Broomfield stomping grounds for a bit.

Thank you again to the many of you who have been fabulously encouraging. If you have followed my posts from the start, you know that initially I just posted a catty comment to Bristol because I was pissed off, having heard that she was literally ignoring her kids in order to post "Happy Happy Applebees" comments.

So this whole...THING...is not something I set out to do. It was that feeling of relief after having purged some of that mountain of anger toward Sarah which I hadn't really even been aware I was harboring which kept me crawling along.

The feeling of no longer LETTING Sarah and her years of mistreating good and decent people just build up anger in me, combined with the encouragement I feel from you guys has turned this from just "venting" to me really feeling like I may serve some genuine, if infinitesimal, purpose here.

Now, if you'll excuse me. I'm working on a message for a certain blogger we all know and love.

-MeAgain

6:38 PM

Tom link

9/25/2011 01:35:47 pm

Viola, Ottoline--forgot the link. Laura's gonna kill me.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126483112

Tom link

9/25/2011 01:47:43 pm

Ottoline--You give recipes. I give this:

"Writers tend to have two great topics, on heavy internal rotation, a very abbreviated playlist. Their careers, their ailments. There's a famous story, about the party where James Joyce ran into Marcel Proust. You expected heavyweight-champion banter. Joyce said, "My eyes are terrible." Proust said, "My poor stomach, what am I going to do? In fact, I must leave at once." (Joyce topped him: "I'm in the same situation, if I can find someone to take me by the arm.") David wasn't like that. For one thing, he never told anyone, beyond the tiniest audience, that he'd been diagnosed as a depressive. For another, he didn't much look the way you imagine a writer; he looked like a stoner, a burner. (The writer Mark Costello was the best friend of the first part of David's adult life; the Illinois term David taught him, he said, was "dirt bomb." "A slightly tough, slightly waste-product-y, tennis-playing persona," Costello said.) David looked like someone who'd played a little varsity, then proceeded to too-cool his way off the squad. A big guy, with the bandanna and flop of hair, someone who was going to invite you to play Hacky Sack, and if you refused, there was a possibility he was going to beat you up.

Which was on purpose. As a student, David had been put off by the campus-writer look — creamy eyes, sensitive politics. He called them "the beret guys. Boy, I remember, one reason I still don't like to call myself a writer is that I don't ever want to be mistaken for that type of person."

Which didn't prepare you for the company — which was astonishingly ample, gentle, comic, overflowing. It makes sense. Books are a social substitute; you read people who, at one level, you'd like to hang out with. Chapters, pages, novels, articles are the next best thing. Even when it's just a good factual writer, you want to hang around them to get the facts, the way you'd sit next to a brainy kid at a test to copy off their answer sheet. David's writing self — it's most pronounced in his essays — was the best friend you'd ever have, spotting everything, whispering jokes, sweeping you past what was irritating or boring or awful in humane style." David Lipsky, "Although Of Course You End UP Becoming Yourself" (quote from David Foster Wallace)

Sharon_Too_Also

9/25/2011 01:51:37 pm

@Viola-Alex - What the heck it's Sunday night, what's a little O/T.

My meeting her was a bit of a fluke. I had friends in the SF food scene and they had something they needed to deliver to her and offered me the opportunity. I seized it! You know how beautiful she was as a young woman? Well she retained that beauty and had the most gentle, gracious demeanor. By that time I'm sure she had experienced a multitude of awe struck fans but she went out of her way to make me feel comfortable.

The little cottage she was in belonged to friends of hers and is sadly, no longer there. We sat in her kitchen and it was as charming as you would have expected it to be. Getting around was becoming more difficult for her and she talked about how generous people were - the cottage, bringing her food, and making sure that she didn't get over extended. She had an assistant who was helping her with her memoirs - needless to say I was thrilled at the prospect that here would be more words from her.

I floated home after the visit, wrote her a note of appreciation and to my surprise received a sweet note thanking me for the package delivery a few days later. Gracious to the core. As sad as it was to lose her, I know that she was well cared for and living the kind of life she loved to the very end.

My god, writing this makes me realize what a stark contrast it is to our usual subject. Thanks V-A for triggering these incredible memories of a beautiful woman.

Tom link

9/25/2011 03:20:43 pm

This is more like it.

http://www.joemcginniss.net/from-seattle-to-toronto-great-reviews-for-the-rogue/Joe%20McGinniss

Some excellent reviews from Seattle, Toronto, London and AP plus a NYT piece by Sam Tanenhaus, 'The Political Provocateur' about McGinniss.

anonymous

9/25/2011 03:29:00 pm

Me Again is on tonight!

Latest post:

Anonymous at 5:58PM,

Oh really? Sarah tells you she's not scared, does she? I guess her telling her lawyer to shut me up before she "loses her f*cking mind" is indicative of her TOTAL lack of fear, isn't it!

That's right Sarah, even the things you've tried to keep outside "the loop" have found their way to me. I also know you desperately want to "refudiate" that the photo of Trig exists. You wanted to say "you can search my house, you won't see that picture!" (which is as asinine as saying someone can "view your stretch marks" to prove maternity of a certain child) but your handlers (who are tiring of your ass quickly, you know) insist you cannot acknowledge any of my posts because it will only lend legitimacy to what I say.

So are you so "not scared" that you threw the photo of that precious baby away? I bet you did, you reactionary idiot.

Sarah, my advice to you...put me way down on your totem pole of worries. I might be one of the few speaking publicly but you know good and well my voice will just be one of a large chorus...VERY soon.

I think your breathless robot army will just LOVE the blackberry message you sent to four people earlier this year, calling "your guy" a "motherf*cker" who better not "sh*t where he eats". (by the way, if he DOES do that, it's probably your own damn fault for making the flying canned goods room, I mean, the KITCHEN...so inhospitable)

And you thought telling Bristol to point out that I'm "fat" on in the blog comments would, what...make me turn on my heel and never come back? Sarah, you're a sad sack of evil, you know that? I'd damn sure rather be a size 16 who's happy and fulfilled in life than a size 2 who can't stand to look in the mirror, hasn't shared a bed with her spouse in five years, and has such an inferiority complex that it cripples me in every arena of life.

What is it you're always saying about "game on"?

Oh yes, it's on...and this time all your Fox-y friends can't fix the end score for you.

-MA

9:13 PM

and the post MA responded to:

Hey Me Again,

Sarah told me she is not scared of anything you have to say, so have fun playing with your new friends.

5:58 PM

Tom link

9/25/2011 04:11:22 pm

Old SP is barking up the wrong tree. Anon238 now signs off as MA. That's funny. I like it. Don't let up MA!

anonymous

9/25/2011 04:39:18 pm

Keep it up, Me Again!

Sounds like St. Sarah is starting to crack from under all the stress - good job! She has brought nothing but misery to everyone she's managed to convince to participate in her fraud of a life, and now that lousy excuse for a mother, wife and public servant is finally beginning to reap what she has sown.

Good for you, Me Again, for making her fear for her own mind!

It's obvious there wasn't ever much there to begin with, but that little bit of base intelligence combined with her immense hubris, and broadcast by every so-called MSM outlet, has whipped up the racists in this country into a fevered pitch.

She might be the simple puppet of the GOP king makers, but she's become both the face and messiah of the Tea Party. Her bosses may pull her puppet strings, but her vitriolic message is what makes them dance. And they are nothing but dangerous for this country. The tea-party-elected-GOP in Congress is dead set on bringing this country to its knees just to insure that Obama doesn't see a second term, and she is egging on the drooling mobs with her rage-filled screeds.

The only good news is that she's too stupid to know that she's been cut loose by the GOP, and too myopic to see that she's floundering aimlessly in the political arena without their structured support. They will never put her forward as their pick in the primary.

She's alienated all but the basest element in the GOP, and while the king makers are happy to use her as their ventriloquist dummy on Fox 'News', feeding her the words to mouth, they will never let her come close to the Presidential role.

And really, even those stints are becoming too much for her. Seriously, doesn't someone check her appearance before they put her on the air? Her imminent mental breakdown is playing out on camera. Who lets her appear so slovenly on camera?

How's it feel to be used, Sarah? Doesn't feel so great, does it? Hope you've put away some of that sweet, sweet cash for your future, because it is going to dry up before you know it. Like all idiots who find themselves with ill-gotten gains, don't be surprised if you wake up one day soon to find you have nothing left. Nothing. No money. No friends. No husband. No children willing to spend time with you. Just empty, rage-filled loneliness.

You are doing the country a great favor, Me Again, by expediting the removal of this cancer from the political scene. She's this generation's McCarthy and KKK head wizard, and she needs to be stopped before her damaged brain encourages the tea party lemmings to destroy this country completely.

Ginger

9/25/2011 05:40:54 pm

@Venefia

I saw the SOA, Benefits Div., e-mail at Palingates. It was the first batch released by Crivella West. There was something in the e-mail that bothered me. So, I went over to IM and did a comment and typed out the e-mail I thought Gryphen, being located in Alaska, would be interested. He never reacted but a week later, Bree did a post and printed the e-mail.

When I went to thank her for the post, it dawned on me the only reason they would ask her for the b/c was because they had a claim or invoice in her name, that needed to be paid. Sarah forgot to send in the b/c. Trig's birth and care was covered for 72 hours. After that, a b/c was needed. Did you see the e-mail here where she thanked someone for reminding her to do so?

Like I said, I've never heard of a doctor doing something like this. It gives me the creeps to just imply Dr. CBJ did. But, I can't come up with any other explanation. I've thought about the child being adopted but then, the form letter would, I'm sure, have read..."for your new adopted child." Besides, Bristol was pregnant so why would she want to adopt another child?

When you stop and think about the possibility of this, you will realize it gives Sarah an ironclad story. All the I's dotted and the T's crossed! She was running for VP of the US with rumors all over Alaska saying she faked a pregnancy. I can't think of better proof. Sarah is too clever and manipulative to show a fake b/c, in my opinion.

Now why would Dr. CBJ be complicit in a hoax like this? Maybe the promise of being the private physician to the VP? And, knowing that bunch, how about to the President in a year--six months? Maybe we weren't the only ones who dodged a bullet and McCain, unknowingly, did too.

Several months ago, Andrew Sullivan let an Anon poster do a post. In the last paragraph, this person referred to a "he" that kept commenting about the e-mail. Well, I'm not a "he" and I'm the only one I know that keeps bringing this up. That person was laughing at me and said, "no one pays any attention to you!"

Boy, was she/he right!

NPR - compared to what?

9/25/2011 10:22:47 pm

Years ago I heard on an NPR show - I believe it was "Morning Edition" - an interview with law theorist John Yoo, then a Bush administration official who asserted that, because the U.S. is at war with "terror", the President (and by implication, anyone he directs to do so) has the right to torture suspected terrorists - or their children - if he thinks this would save American lives. The interview was respectful and offered no contrasting opinion. It was a perfect example of journalism as stenography - as Stephen Colbert has observed, a Washington journalist's job is to tell the public what powerful people want to say to them.

At this point I knew in my gut that NPR was not on my side, and decided that I would donate only to news sources (bloggers, I mean) who I thought WERE on my side - not only of comforting the afflicted, but afflicting the comfortable.

Now my favorite NPR show is "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me", and my radio news is from a commercial station which delivers plenty of ads along with "traffic and weather on the 8's". It doesn't deliver a sense of "high-minded public spirited objective inquiry", but it's OK - I can do without that, it seems, especially when I know it's counterfeit.

Lilybart

9/25/2011 10:59:15 pm

Me Again: The only reason people are skeptical is because we fee we got burned once before by someone claiming to have inside info.

We hope you are an inner circle person willing to end her political career, but we have been burned, so forgive us, we are all rooting for you!

Lilybart

9/25/2011 11:02:06 pm

Could "Me Again" be RAM?

Luddy

9/25/2011 11:02:13 pm

Luddy

9/25/2011 11:03:44 pm

Say, speaking of Steven Colbert, is Joe M. going on that show (or The Daily Show)?

Anyone heard? HUGE audience.

luddy

Karen

9/25/2011 11:03:47 pm

@Lilybart, I thought the same thing but she doesn't have all those annoying writing quirks that RAM has.

Lidia17

9/25/2011 11:04:15 pm

@everspring, cruiser, et al. Over a year ago I did try to make a timeline. I even bought a specific software for it. The arc was so long and the entries so many that it got unwieldy. The problem lies in linking events and in their emphasis; having all entries look the same tends to present a big blur. That’s why I then made the videos.

@Tom, MrsG has jokes and recipes, you have your DFW obsession. Either we tolerate these little, human, digressions or? we should just politely retreat. I, too, like “meatier” posts and discussions, but we can’t always have what we want. I would LOVE to put up a site that is just an archive/clearinghouse of what’s already been discovered about Mrs. Palin, but I don’t want to step on any toes (Patrick, Regina, Gryphen), and I don’t want to have to moderate comments.

@Karen, re the lying MSM… as if people hadn’t already been able to figure it out with the heinous Judith Miller/NYT/WMD scandal… Bill Keller is only coming out now with a mealy half-apology, a little less emphatic and less convincing than the Vatican’s apology to Galileo, however.

@FrostyAK, are you saying that other articles from the same time frame still have their comments, but that only articles about Sarah have been scrubbed??

RE:Anon238/MeAgain… Ok I have had it with this person… “in my little corner”?? “quiet as a churchmouse”?? WTF??? If this person has info, spill it already… NOTHING he/she has written over all these last weeks isn’t something that most of us here couldn’t have come up with. There has been NO real information from that quarter—none. It seems to me like another hoax, another confidence game, sucking energy out of the room.

@Ginger, do you have a link to that Andrew Sullivan post?

Lidia17

9/25/2011 11:06:00 pm

Oops, by "cruiser" I meant "curiouser"!!

Allie RN

9/25/2011 11:07:43 pm

Laura, sorry about another skunk...peeeew. There is a lot about you that I envy, but your skunk visitors, not so much. :) You have my sympathy.

I think everyone who has backed out of interviewing Joe is a skunk, too. It is the lead-up to the Iraq War all over again, on a smaller scale. AND, it a continuation of the Spiral of Silence. So, I have two suggestions. That Brad ask to write an "Update" to his piece at BI and/or that you ask Random House if you can interview Joe for your blog.

If you have the time, go back and read that post from Tom about his DC friend. And, Tom, I have a question for you about that friend. He claimed to be on the receiving end of Palin complaints from McCain insiders. So what did the insiders say about the pregnancy hoax? Faking a pregnancy is not your everyday topic of discussion. So the insiders just HAD to vent about the clothes but never say a frickin' word about a faked pregnancy? Then Tom's DC friend says in his email that Joe missed the mark? Just how would he know that unless he knew the story?

When Babygate busts wide open, AND IT WILL! it is going to reflect poorly on more than just the media. It is going to reflect very badly on John McCain and his judgment and yes, his impulsiveness. Palin was supposed to be his Hillary substitute and take her votes away from BO. His thinking was so shallow that he didn't think beyond that and nobody vetted her properly. What a colossal misjudgment. I believe the powers that be will do everything possible to prevent that exposure.

Other impulsive decisions:
1) we are all Georgians, now,
2) we are going to delay the start of a multi-million dollar national convention in Minnesota because there is a hurricane in Mississippi,
3) we are going to suspend our campaign so we can go save our strong economy,
4) we are going to delay the debate so we can save our strong economy,
5) we are not going to comprehensively vet our VP candidate because I want to announce my choice on my birthday, dammit. I've only been running for prez for 8 years; I haven't had time!

Okay, I'm done now. Thanks.

Karen

9/25/2011 11:18:59 pm

Lydia 17, I think your videos are brilliant and were part of the reason I became convinced that what I was hearing was utter BS.

I, also, too, think Anon238 is legitimately on the edges of the inner circle and that she (am assuming now that it is indeed a woman, since she claims Sarah wants to fairy tale trolls to mock her for being fat) has the goods to possibly break things open for once. My hope is that people will suspend their disbelief and see what progresses this week.

Gryphen, if you're reading, perhaps a quick note in the comments or elsewhere to let us know if the two of you have connected?

SLQ

9/25/2011 11:21:56 pm

Ginger, I agree that the e-mail is interesting, but I don't think a claim is necessarily the only thing that would prompt it.

When I worked in HR, we routinely reminded employees to enroll their newborns (or adopted children, new spouses, etc.). And we didn't even process claims -- they were processed by the claims processor, so we wouldn't have even known whether there was a claim pending or not. However, we DID remind employees that claims would not be paid if they didn't provide the necessary paperwork. A b/c or marriage license was required to enroll the new family member when any of these events occurred, and part of our job was to walk employees through that paperwork. We didn't want employees to miss out on that window of time, and have to wait until open enrollment. We thought it was important for us to help employees navigate the paperwork, because it's not something people understand as a matter of course.

We also helped employees fill out the paperwork (or call the insurance company) when they were having planned inpatient surgery and even contacted employees or family members when we learned (though the grapevine) that someone had been admitted to the hospital. This is all because an admittance requires certain things to be done, and failure to jump through the hoops meant denial of coverage. We didn't want our employees to unnecessarily have a huge bill when they were already dealing with a major life event.

I think it's obvious that CBJ was in on the hoax, willingly or otherwise. She either provided the 11th hour letter for the campaign, or she didn't object when someone else used her name and letterhead. But I think if there actually was a b/c for 4/18 with Sarah and Todd's name on it, Sarah would have provided it by now for evidence of the birth. So I don't think there's any clear evidence that CBJ falsified a b/c.

It's possible the e-mail means what you say -- that there actually were claims in Sarah's name for Trig on 4/17-18. But it's also possible it's standard wording.

The thing that bothers me is that I strongly suspect that Trig was born before 4/18. But the benefits people definitely believe Trig was born on 4/18, or the timing of the e-mail doesn't work. Does that mean that there were bills earlier for the real birth, and a duplicate set on 4/18? That's one thing that doesn't make sense to me. I think the only thing the benefits department had to go on was the announcement of Trig's birth, and they wanted to assist the family in getting their new "son" enrolled. They probably had no idea if claims had been presented to the claims processor, because the employees in the benefits department don't see them.

I think the e-mail is important in that it shows they hadn't yet provided the e-mail. And I think it's important in combination with the later e-mail, indicating Trig wasn't enrolled then, but later, in open enrollment (if he even was then -- all we know is that Sarah made a big show of asking to be reminded.)

Just my two cents.

VIOLa-Alex

9/25/2011 11:56:43 pm

@SLQ - I've been very slow on this insurance angle. Will you help me?

How do you know that the insurance people were working from 4/18 birth as far as the timing for the reminder?

Could it have been timed to coincide with the Open Enrollment?

Do you believe that Palin would have dared declare a birth of Bristol's? Would T and S have believed so strongly in HIPAA and in the insurance people not being alerted if Bristol gave birth, that claims of Bristol's birth(s) would have been filed routinely? Of course, Bristol could have given birth before Sarah was a real candidate, so it might not have felt so dangerous.

Thanks! I so feel like the insurance is a giant leap into something valuable.

Karen

9/26/2011 12:01:30 am

I was just thinking through the argument to be made that Anon238 is playing us and just trying to "suck all the oxygen out of the room." If you'll bear with me, here are my thoughts:

--I think most of us can agree that Anon/MeAgain is well spoken and intelligent, so she probably has a job. If she were a poser, what would her motivation be? To make all the anti-Palin bloggers look like idiots so that our reaction could be used as a defense of Sarah? If that were the case, wouldn't the more than five weeks of speculation and fake-revelations hurt Sarah more than help her?
--Regarding the claims she has made, I have followed this stuff for almost three years, and in my wildest dreams I could NOT have come up with the stories she has shared. "Godson" in LA? Specific gossip about the reality show and how it is being received by test audiences? Sarah's Special K ointment and other secret items mailed to her sister's house? Suggestions that Sarah PAC is paying for Trig's care by two or three caretakers; he never got used to wearing glasses because she was too lazy to help him get used to wearing them; until he went to his new home, he wasn't attempting to potty-train or eat solid foods. Inside conversations with Todd regarding how to fake the pregnancy, his anger at leaking the photo of her Track pregnancy and referencing already having release the birth certificate (so that now they couldn't claim she was protecting his privacy.) Specific text messages such as "motherf*ck&$ shouldn't sh#t where he eats."
If someone did have the time and creativity and inclination to make all of that up, they would have to be absolutely insane. And, frankly, she doesn't sound insane to me at all.

Viola-Alex

9/26/2011 12:06:54 am

Thanks, Karen, for that refresher on MA.

You reminded me that last night on INSPECTOR LEWIS, Ketamine played a major role. It was being used in drug trials to treat depression. I shrieked at my TV!

I'd never heard of Ketamine until MA. To name it as something SP is using and isn't proud of was one of the first things that gave me pause.

Sir Guestalot

9/26/2011 12:08:16 am

@Karen - FYI - Gryphen just wrote in the long Nick B. comment thread that he and Anon have not connected and the way "Anon" is doing this is not helpful to anyone.

Karen

9/26/2011 12:21:04 am

Yes, I saw. Guess we will see where this is heading sooner than later. Here was her response:

Anonymous said...

Gryphen, I left you two long posts here last night.

Prior to those posts I left a message saying that after thinking about it, I was uncomfortable writing to you until you could state with 100% certainty that NOBODY had hacked your email...rather than just stating "Breitbart" didn't hack your email.

Given the increasingly violent rhetoric of Sarah's core base, I'm sure (or at least I hope) you understand.

If you don't understand...well then I guess no, I'm not "serious". It would be too risky for me to be THAT serious.

BTW, you can publish this publicly.

-MeAgain

6:02 AM

Karenn

9/26/2011 12:31:11 am

His response (you gotta LOVE the frickin internet):

Gryphen, I left you two long posts here last night.

Prior to those posts I left a message saying that after thinking about it, I was uncomfortable writing to you until you could state with 100% certainty that NOBODY had hacked your email...rather than just stating "Breitbart" didn't hack your email.

Given the increasingly violent rhetoric of Sarah's core base, I'm sure (or at least I hope) you understand.

If you don't understand...well then I guess no, I'm not "serious". It would be too risky for me to be THAT serious.

BTW, you can publish this publicly.

-MeAgain

6:02 AM
Blogger Gryphen said...

No I was NOT hacked. In fact nobody was hacked.

I cannot go into details, but the e-mail leak did not happen on my end. If it had, I would tell you.

It also should be noted that the e-mail that Joe and I communicated on is NOT my [email protected] account.

E-mails I receive are private, and remain private.

Period!

6:27 AM

V ictoria link

9/26/2011 12:38:49 am

Thanks, Karen! I agree that MeAgain has provided some incredible details that have the ring of veracity.

MeAgain has also stated that s/he is not actually in the inner circle, but is only getting information from it. So, although the details are wonderful, proof is not so straightforward. Furthermore, there are valid issues concerned with presenting the truth. Legality - making sure the information is iron clad - making sure that the media takes it seriously. So I understand why MeAgain is taking his/her time. For example, the V-Day photo sounds great at first blush, but the lawyer apparently did point out some problems.

And I admit I reserve the right to be skeptical, too. I can imagine that MeAgain could be from the other side - GOP people who want to sink Sarah without sinking the GOP.

Karen

9/26/2011 12:41:35 am

@V ictoria, Wow, I had never thought of that angle (GOP sinking Sarah). Aren't You the conspiracy theorist? ;)

SLQ

9/26/2011 12:56:55 am

V-A: I think Palinioia and Karen are the true experts here, but I can definitely give the perspective from an HR/Benefits Dept. perspective. I worked directly in that area for several years, and in a related area (submitting claims for executives/handling all insurance issues) for many more.

How do you know that the insurance people were working from 4/18 birth as far as the timing for the reminder?

I don't have the e-mail in front of me at the moment, but this was the "you have to submit the b/c within 60 days of birth" e-mail, and the e-mail was within that 60 days, I believe in May?

Could it have been timed to coincide with the Open Enrollment?

No, there is a later e-mail in June or July indicating it was soon to be open enrollment time, which I believe was due Sept. 1.

Do you believe that Palin would have dared declare a birth of Bristol's?

I really don't know, but I don't think she would have dared submit fake paperwork. That would have required a wrong name and/or date on not only the hospital account, but any radiology account (they bill separately), doctor account, lab account, etc. as well as a wrong name and b/c for insurance enrollment. If she did that, she opened herself up for a lot of trouble, which I believe will eventually catch up with her.

Would T and S have believed so strongly in HIPAA and in the insurance people not being alerted if Bristol gave birth, that claims of Bristol's birth(s) would have been filed routinely? Of course, Bristol could have given birth before Sarah was a real candidate, so it might not have felt so dangerous.

I'm not sure they thought things through as carefully as you or I would (of course, we would have quickly abandoned the idea ). They would have relied in HIPAA, but probably even more so on their influence in AK. I suspect they believed that they could get away with whatever they wanted, and worked out details later.

lilly lily

9/26/2011 01:02:08 am

Blogs tend to implode. It happens. So many different personalities.

Paligates splitting off with Politicalgate was a good thing, but people tended to take sides. Just as with the McGinniss-Mudflats bruhaha.

At to Palingates, which I enjoy in part,I am not into senior jokes. Possibly because I had a brother in law who was a master at telling a funny joke. ( A lot originate in prisons, though he was not a jailbird.) Truly supurb storyteller. Had a husband and kids who are witty.

Things either strike me as funny and amusing or they don't, so I skim over those Palingates jokes which don't hit my funny bone. Recipes are always interesting to a foody. As a deterent to trolls, its genius.

I do enjoy much of Palingates because it does reflect Regina's interests, and her personality, after all it is her blog, though the some things do turn me off. for ex. the G.Stringed fishmonger. But others were amused. Like the woman who were present at the fishmongers. What is not my cup of tea I skim over. Though it can set a tone which I find unappealing.

I'm sure what I find funny others won't. What I find interesting or worthwhile spending my time on won't interest everyone.

Like anything else in life. I eat what I enjoy, I read what interests me.

I'm sure what I write annoys some. I digress, I write long and convoluted sentences. No one has to read what I write. I find something interesting and I run with it.

So we can skip over whichever posters bore us. And if we don't like what others feel should or shouldn't be discussed we skip that also.

I am drifting away from all things Palin. She is beginning to bore me. I think she is finished as a political force myself. She can't be re-packaged.

Mrs. Gunka didn't want frivolous things initially at Palingates, was critical, wanted the posters to write like Mae Lewis. Her trials and tribulations became a focus there. Some find it appealing. She should start her own blog for those that do.

Palingates has altered. That is the blog owners choice. Regina does want to have her blog continue after Paliln is gone.

SLQ

9/26/2011 01:06:56 am

I missed a question about Bristol's (or the true mother's) claims being filed routinely. Yes, I do think those claims would have been filed routinely. Those things happen automatically through computer entries with admittance, patient charting, discharge, etc. If the birth was an emergency, there wouldn't have been time to fake these, and they would have had to be edited after the fact. This is not an easy thing to do, and would have required a lot of people to be in on the secret.

Ottoline

9/26/2011 01:08:30 am

Here is my simple-minded view, which I hope any of you will correct:

Bristol or someone gave up a baby for adoption via the very flexible adoption practices of CBJ and the church. Palin adopted that baby. She has the paperwork for it for insurance purposes. Has/had a b/c that worked for those purposes, but there was a problem with it (date?) so the church records were torched.

Explaining all that would be awkward, but it's legal (except the arson). If SP returned to work w/o maternity leave, I say she gave some thought to the fraud/legalities aspect of this. And whatever was still awkward or illegal, she burned up in the fire.

Yes, there was a substitute baby (Ruffles) and perhaps a life-like doll at times.

But the main point still remains, Palin BabyHoaxed an election, she was enabled/supported, and MSM looked the other way, and that continues to this day.

I say let Palin and the guilty explain what happened. The main point is she perpetrated a giant hoax. So clear from the Mar 14 photo (and other photos).

Viola-Alex

9/26/2011 01:12:27 am

Thanks, SLQ!

Well, let's hope MA puts up. The dance isn't strengthening her case. But then again, maybe she is having cold feet. I know so little about hacking and tapped phones-- and all that spy stuff. What is secure anymore? Anything?

Snail mail?

(Ah, Karen. Nice idea!)

Karen

9/26/2011 01:20:30 am

SLQ, I'm truly no expert. I am a blue stater living in a red state. I live in a district that voted 78% Republican.
I don't know any of the players but I was able to witness firsthand how quickly the Tea Party and the Palin cult was able to get stirred into a racist frenzy. I am just rooting for this huge farce to come to an end.
My family thinks that Palin is irrelevant, a has been and a nobody with no power and no political aspirations. (My mother has a girl crush on her, but I think she will admit how stupid she is.) And yet the media reports on her every tweet. They allow her to call the President a terrorist, a socialist. They allow her to scare the ignorant and the old with her talk of "death panels" and it really and truly sways the masses of idiots who believe everything that Rush and Hannity have to say. It's terrifying. Frankly, these blogs have been an oasis for me because the people on them are able to see the true nature of Sarah Palin and her followers. I also have been on them long enough as a lurker to see how people are often chased off, to the detriment of the cause. And how a few personalities can overtake discussion or twist things to serve their own conclusions and others become afraid to post. (I was anonymous for a very long time for that reason.)
SLQ, I have enjoyed your posts on HIPAA. I was in marketing in a hospital until just recently and am pretty aware of how HIPAA has changed the way things are reported, specifically. Back when I was a reporter you could call the charge nurse in any ER and ask about the status of the car accident or murder victim, and the correct spelling of his or her name. Now that has changed significantly.

lilly lily

9/26/2011 01:22:47 am

I'm sure the powers that be have clamped down on Joe.

Even some of the libraries I freguent (quite a few) aren't interested in his book. I asked at a third library and they don't have his book on order. But I live in prime Republican, high end territory. In fact lol, I read they might be filming a reality show on the horsey set out here. That should be wild.

I think SP assumed she would swan around the White House, sleep in the Lincoln bedroom, wave like Queen Esther from the White House balcony on holidays with her crazed dysfunction adoring fans wildly applauding, occasionaly touring the country on Air Force One while reading off her puppetmasters speeches. She would have her flunkeys do the work while she slept and watched T.V.. If anyone takes her seriously after her Paul Revere fiasco, they have to be as dumb as she is.

Tom link

9/26/2011 01:25:43 am

Allie,

First, the emailer is not a friend. I've never met the person and have no contact with him. The email was sent to a longtime friend's husband. Also, the emailer didn't use the word 'hoax', he said Downs Syndrome baby. I also don't see where the emailer said or implied that Joe missed the mark. You may want to reread what I posted.

Laura Novak link

9/26/2011 01:29:35 am

There is a new post up. But in case I didn't say it clearly enough the day before yesterday, allow me to say it again: I really don't want to hear about other blogs here. Post links to interesting articles, by all means. Paste Anon's comments here, certainly.

But no bashing, criticizing or critiquing other blogs. Or one another for that matter. It's irksome and quite frankly, I think everyone of the bloggers is doing a terrific job in their own way. As are all of you.

Let's stick to the topic at hand, or another fact-related topic that moves this story forward, as slowly as that may be.

Brad has new work before us now. Let's focus on it.

Thanks, Laura

V ictoria link

9/26/2011 01:34:28 am

@Karen - well, yes, I do have an extremely active imagination! But I prefer to think (perhaps wishfully) that Anon238 will prove to be on our side.

For more about my imagination's activities, click on my name to visit my website.

rubbernecking

9/26/2011 02:49:26 am

I think different blogs having different cultures/vibes is a good thing, not a thing.

Gryphen is a local with connections to people in Wasilla. He is a risk-taker and is willing to chase leads that don't always pan out. This is a good thing.

Laura is a health writer, a woman who experienced a high-risk birth, and someone with friendships in the medical community. Laura's willingness to re-examine some of the seemingly established facts is what made we want to comment on her blog. I've been rubbernecking this story for a long time. Laura's approach made we want to jump into the fray and help out.

I reminded people that Anon238 comments on IM because I am confused why some commenters here are so bothered by skepticism of Anon238 on Laura's blog. No one is chasing Anon238 off of Laura's blog--because Anon238 is not posting on Laura's blog. If you copy Anon238's comments here, I assume you are asking the rest of us to help critique it. Otherwise, what's the point?

P.S. I hope Laura sells thousands of books from her blog. The Palin birth hoax is not her whole life. If Laura expands her audience of readers based on a shared interest, good for her. Writers making money by writing is always good news to me.

Karen

9/26/2011 03:17:40 am

I reposted Anon238 comments after Laura asked people to do so since they were hard to find. I personally wasn't bothered by skepticism until it began to sound like people were making demands about precisely how, when and in what form Anon238 should contribute information in order for her to be considered believable. We know she is reading here, as she has mentioned Laura by name since the very beginning of her commenting.

A lot of what she shared was very specific and rounded out so many suppositions that had been made on all the blogs. I think there were a lot of clues given that readers can use to provide backstory, etc.

If she is all a farce, I will be the first to say I'm a fool. Scout's honor. We should know more by the end of this week, it looks like. We shall see.

I second the sentiment about Laura selling lots of books!

lilly lily

9/26/2011 03:45:36 am

We all have the right,(thank god for our freedoms), and the luxury to choose whatever we read and where we go to do so.

Sarah is toxic in every way, and I am going to clean and clear my palate with beautiful things and places.

Sarah and Bristol Palin are a dead issue for me personally.

Too much fear out there, and it is time to move on.

Ottoline

9/26/2011 05:24:57 am

Re the latest anon238 response in Karen's 07:21:04 (Here was her response: Anonymous said...Gryphen, I left you two long posts here last night. / Prior to those posts I left a message saying that after thinking about it, I was uncomfortable writing to you until you could state with 100% certainty that NOBODY had hacked your email...rather than just stating "Breitbart" didn't hack your email. / Given the increasingly violent rhetoric of Sarah's core base, I'm sure (or at least I hope) you understand. / If you don't understand...well then I guess no, I'm not "serious". It would be too risky for me to be THAT serious.)

I thought anon said SP knows who she is? Why would writing to IM on a hackable email matter? All emails are hackable by someone at some point. And the long preamble continues.

Ottoline

9/26/2011 05:31:11 am

Oh, that's right, anon238 said she was worried about SP's supporters. The handyman who helped McG, who drove over with his car license plates covered -- he found a way around it. I can think of 4 ways right off: snail mail; drop envelope off at G's house; contact a friend of G's to deliver the message; phone. Each delay sends my BS-o-meter a few more degrees toward the skeptic side. Time to speak up, anon238/MA.

FrostyAK

9/26/2011 07:55:38 am

@Lidia "@FrostyAK, are you saying that other articles from the same time frame still have their comments, but that only articles about Sarah have been scrubbed??"

I can't say about other articles at ADN. In don't frequent their website anymore, unless by direct link from a blogger. The old $P articles I have accessed have had the comments removed.

FrostyAK

9/26/2011 08:23:35 am

Here's the email I sent to Olbermann, subject "Courage":

Keith,

There was a time I considered you and Rachel the last voices of freedom in the US media. I am currently very disappointed. I live near Wasilla, Alaska.

Why did you cancel the interview scheduled with Joe McGinniss, about his book The Rogue? Have you read the book? You DO know what a menace $arah Palin has been for the last 3 years. WHY did you cancel the interview?

Supposedly you are out from under the corporate feet determined to squash our free system of information. Courage would mean you tackle the hardest stories, no matter the backlash. I am fighting from within the nest of vipers...

Have you become part of the Spiral of Silence outlined by Prof Brad Scharlot, in his research paper about Palin's pregnancy hoax?

A very disappointed American, who WAS a faithful watcher of Countdown.

Lidia17

9/26/2011 09:08:09 am

@FrostyAK, thanks for the reply. Good mail to Keith!

Venefica

9/26/2011 11:15:08 am

@Balzafiar: Here's some info about Dr. CBJ: http://providencealaska.netreturns.biz/Providers/Detail.aspx?ProviderId=3ac52674-ba15-4e2a-a12c-bd83d339ea57 I'd guess she's in her late fifties. It's appalling to even consider that a doctor would falsify a birth record, but I suppose it could happen, particularly in Palin/Parnell's Alaska. If it did, it's within the realm of possibility that such an act could later become the basis for blackmail.

@Ginger: I did indeed see the email reminder and plowed through the fabulous "insurance" thread here.

@SLQ: Thanks for your "two cents"! I also surmise that at least one "Trig" was born before 4/18/08 (most likely a couple of months before that).

Intriguing point about the benefits staffer possibly just ASSUMING that Trig was born on 4/18/08. Since the deadline ("within 60 days of the date of birth") for submission of Trig's BC was mentioned in the email of 5/21/08, the sender obviously thought that 4/18/08 was Trig's date of birth.

It's very significant that we now also too have an email essentially confirming that Trig's BC was NOT produced pursuant to the benefits office request -- because SP subsequently wrote about adding Trig during open enrollment. Was he enrolled? I wish we knew. Maybe his (and perhaps another infant's) substantial uninsured medical bills were a factor in Sarah's ultimate go-for-the-bucks resignation.

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