Laura Novak
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Oedipus, Palin - A Tapestry of Mythology

8/3/2011

43 Comments

 
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I have just finished reading a beautifully written and incredibly well researched book by one of our very own commenters here at my blog. It reminded me so much of the mythology of Sarah Palin, that it proved to be a perfect topic for discussion.

Victoria Grossack, a frequent commenter and the guest author of an early post called  "Sarah Palin: Pregnancy and Probability," is co-author of the novel:  

Jocasta: The Mother-Wife of Oedipus    

And in light of these latest Palin photos we've found and the renewed discussion about the mythology surrounding a baby's birth and an infant's relationship to his mother, I thought this an ideal time to introduce Victoria to my readers. 

LN:  I Googled the topic “Sarah Palin and mythology” and do you know, Victoria, that more than 11 million hits came up in a second. There are many titles of articles out there using her name and that word together. What does this tell us? 

VG:  Today, the word “mythology” usually means a set stories that aren’t true, and if you got so many hits with that combination, obviously many people believe that the stories swirling around Palin are fake.  But myths aren’t just false stories; they’re stories that are larger than life. One of the reasons that we're all so intrigued by this Palin "pregnancy" is the impact it’s had on us politically.  But it's also so peculiar that it’s taken on mythic proportions – yet other bizarre family stories with major political significance have been around for millennia.

Three thousand years before Palin, there was another woman with a troubling pregnancy in her past and some scandalous secrets in the family.  In Jocasta: The Mother-Wife of Oedipus, my co-author Alice Underwood and I revisit the myth of Oedipus, who accidentally married his mother.  But we tell it from the point of view of Jocasta, because she was the one who had all the clues.

LN: A queen – a real one – potentially with dark secrets – who had all the clues! Just think about it: Palin is one of only a handful of people who know the real truth about so many things. Was she really pregnant? Was the ride really wild? Does Steve Schmidt know the truth? And with Jocasta you can ask: did she ever realize she was married to her son, and if so what did she do about it?

VG: Yes, they are both women with secrets - although we hope that your readers will like Jocasta more than they do Palin!  Other characters in our book may be familiar to those following today's politics: a bumbling leader whose main strengths are his affability and good looks; destructive religious zealots; well-intentioned moderate believers; and some who simply use religion to justify what they do.  We expect that human nature in the Bronze Age was very much like it is today.

LN: But they only had word of mouth and devious courtiers and servants or oracles to kiss and tell family secrets. Motivations might have been the same, but were secrets safer back then?

VG:  I think most secrets were safer – and certainly those with power could preserve history as the way they liked it.  The pictures on walls and temples were commissioned by those in power, and the bards, who like Homer sang histories aloud, had to please their patrons if they wanted to eat.  So the media outlets of the time were controlled by those in power, and events were certainly spun to make them look better.  But we all know these things are still happening today.

LN: There’s a great passage on page 251 where you write:  “Melanthe dropped both palms towards the ground and thrust her chip upwards, breasts straining against her fine-pleated gown. The crowd hushed its applause once more as Melanthe fixed her kohl-rimmed stare on Polydorus.  “Feed me,” she hissed at him, “and I live. Give me water, and I die.”

I understand she is posing riddles to the suitors here, but I dog-eared the page for a reason. It sent chills through me.  Palin essentially thrust her chest out to the crowds and fixed her stare at the world and said, essentially, “feed me” but don’t question me. Does this resonate for you as well?

VG: We weren’t thinking of Palin when we wrote that scene, but you’re right!  The powerful distract the crowds with whatever they can – sex and scandals, for example – so that the people don’t pay attention to what is really happening.  While we’re watching Dancing With the Stars, or staring at Palin’s chest on the cover of Newsweek, the powerful are doing things they’d rather we didn’t notice. The Romans – about thirteen hundred years after our novels, but they borrowed much from the Greeks – even had a phrase for it: bread and circuses (the Latin is panem et circenses).  It was a way of distracting the populace – keeping them from asking questions – so those in power could do as they pleased.

LN: Jocasta isn't your only research into the Bronze Age, or the only ancient political cover-up you've worked on.

VG: While writing Jocasta, we noticed a mass murder that has gone virtually unnoticed for three millennia.  Those familiar with Greek mythology may remember Niobe, who allegedly cursed the mother of the gods Apollo and Artemis.  The story goes that the twin gods took their revenge on Niobe by killing thirteen of her fourteen children.  But if you don't accept supernatural explanations - and we think the idea that Apollo and Artemis actually killed people is even less likely than Palin's six-week pregnancy – then the question becomes, who did it?

LN: But we know from your book that Niobe became a blithering, insane old woman overnight. She could not bear the pain of losing her children. Palin seems to bear up under all manner of strain. I’ve often found that intriguing. I wonder if the commenters here will agree?

VG: Do you really think Palin has done so well emotionally?  Although she obviously craves media attention, her ego is so fragile that her keepers protect her from the simplest questions.  And when she misspeaks, instead of saying, “That was a mistake; of course Paul Revere was riding to warn the colonialists and not the British,” her supporters try to change reality – or at least the history recording it.  I think Palin’s skin is becoming thinner and even more stretched with time – even less substance and more air.  She reminds me of an inflatable doll.

But back to Niobe and her children.  One of the amazing things is that, as far as we can tell, no one has even asked who murdered Niobe's children.  The murderer threw the veil of religion over his deed, making it heretical even to question the murders.  Others were probably bribed to stay silent – or were too afraid to speak out.  And over time the deaths at the hands of the gods became accepted simply as truth – and then as myth. However, if you look at other stories associated with some of Niobe's contemporaries – her father, her brothers and her husband – suspects emerge.

LN: I’m sorry, I just had the strangest feeling: remind me, are you talking about a queen of Thebes or Sarah of Wasilla? The themes are frighteningly similar and overlapping. “No one asked the critical question” and “over time the story became the truth.”

VG: These legends show that some problems have been a part of the human condition for a long time.  And every generation has to fight the fight anew, because every generation contains people who seek to hide the truth.  Sometimes the truth-hiders win, for the complacent are easily misled – but sometimes they don’t, because a few brave men and women struggle to get out the facts.  Right now the battle is up to people like you, Laura!

LN: Well, that’s a weight off my shoulders! One of the things that struck me while reading Jocasta is not only how well it’s written – the language is beautiful and your research went quite deep. You’ve got every detail nailed down. There’s not a sloppy or slapdash moment in the entire story.  Have you written other books set in this era?

VG: Yes, Alice and I wrote a trilogy that covers the whole rich story leading up to the murders.  The books are: Children of Tantalus, The Road to Thebes and Arrows of Artemis.  Our readers have found them engrossing, real page-turners, but they also show that politicians have been using manipulative techniques for a long time.  You don't need to know Greek mythology to enjoy them – though if you are familiar with some of the myths that adds a bit of extra fun.  We think anyone who likes fiction, who needs a break from the stresses of the day or Palin politics, will find they offer a fabulous escape. And they’re must-haves for those who like Greek mythology.

LN: For more information and to see the reactions of some reviewers, check out A Tapestry of Bronze.

Here are some great blurbs to get you started:

The most amazing part of the series is how the authors retell the myths in such a way as to work for modern audiences.... definitely worth reading by fans of fiction and Greek mythology.

--NS Gill, About.com, Ancient History

A fresh discovery for this reader. A world...as compelling as Tolkien's but more rooted in actual history...in the spirit of Graves's I, Claudius.

–Bob Mielke, Professor of English, Truman State University, in The Copperfield Review, Summer 2011

Grossack and Underwood have an unfailing ear for dialogue and drama. The resulting books will draw inevitable comparisons to the work of both Robert Graves and Mary Renault, but throughout these books … Grossack and Underwood consistently manage a wit and breadth all their own. Readers will find themselves flying through these volumes, gripped the whole time. Very strongly recommended. 

--Steve Donoghue, Historical Novels Review Online, August, 2011.

Thank you, Victoria Grossack, and Alice Underwood, for taking the time to discuss your work with us here. Victoria will check comments, so please join the conversation!



43 Comments
Laura Novak link
8/3/2011 11:13:30 am

Victoria, I'm going to get started by saying that I wrote to you at one point and said, "Good, Laius is dead. What a jerk." You pointed out that he had a back story that might make me feel differently.

I know there are people out there who know Sarah Palin's back story. So they see her in a different light. If we knew it, I wonder if we'd feel sorry for her. Or if someone's deeds simply outshine what or who they might have once been.

What do you think?

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Viola-Alex
8/3/2011 12:11:52 pm

Thank you, Laura and Victoria, for this post. I need to be reminded that human nature is eternal, and that what we're suffering through is neither new nor will last forever. I get great comfort out of your ideas that there have always been dense populaces who were easily distracted by bread and circuses AND that the Greeks could be fundies too.

Congratulations, Victoria, on your great accomplishment and on a truly original series of novels. Sympathy for Jocasta!!? I guess I'll have to read the book. I feel privileged to share the comment box with you!

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The other jk
8/3/2011 01:32:47 pm

sounds fascinating! This is gping on my must read list.
Thanks.

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ginny11
8/3/2011 01:51:12 pm

What a great post and discussion! Thanks to Victoria and Laura! The books sound wonderful, I will head to the library this weekend to find them. I went to an extremely small school in a very small town, and we didn't have the luxury of courses in Greek mythology (or ANY mythology!). But I came across an old high school text book on Greek and Roman mythology while I was a teen, and read it cover to cover. So I know a little bit. I can't wait to read your books!
Oh, and yes it is so true: humans don't seem to change much, do we? And we always seem to have the cycle of the generation(s) that fight for justice and truth, then the generation(s) that forgot all the lessons learned, get lazy and complacent and allow the powerful, greedy and corrupt to ruin everything once again!

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V ictoria link
8/3/2011 01:55:59 pm

@Laura: although I can tell you why Laius behaves the way he does (he saw something horrible in his childhood, which terrified him forever) I can't say if anything happened to Sarah. Her personality seems fixed from an early age, so if there was something, it must have been during the formative years.

I'm sure there are some things in her background that could make us feel a little sympathy for her. But whatever damage was done to her doesn't justify the damage she has done to the US.

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Victoria link
8/3/2011 02:13:08 pm

@Viola-Alex: Of course you need to read JOCASTA! And it's a lot more accessible than Sophocles' OEDIPUS REX.

I agree that what we're experiencing is not new. However, I'm not sure that it won't last forever, given how constant the distribution of different human natures is.

Our novels are fiction, because the myths and historical sources are very sparse, and so we had to fill in motives and back story. But if you fast forward to Rome, when they were keeping good records (and we've still got them) and you can see many similarities between then and today. The Roman Republic thrived when it had a strong middle class. It fell apart when oligarchs, preferring to employ disposable slaves, squeezed out the middle class - and even the senators became a rubber stamp (or I guess a signet ring for sealing wax) for the Caesars.

Every age has fundies. And every age has ruthless people willing to use them.

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FrostyAK
8/3/2011 02:36:12 pm

Well, that sent a chill thru me. Sometimes we get so engrossed in what we are doing (like exposing the $P hoax) and experiencing (like the abysmal way our government isn't working for us), we forget that history is full of much the same things. Current is just so much more personal.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

I was about to to type "it could be worse"; and it probably could be - say if $P got the title she so covets. Let's hope that the internet and Wikileaks are the tools that will combat more repetitions of bad history.

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AvidReader
8/3/2011 02:40:23 pm

I've added your book to my Wishlist, Victoria (and Laura, when yours becomes available on Kindle, I'll add it too!). At the moment I am flat broke, but I look forward to reading both books someday.

Totally O/T from Palin, but to both of you--why did you choose to self-publish? And how have you successfully marketed your work? I published a novel via CreateSpace but have sold all of 15 copies...I am lousy at the marketing. :)

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Lidia17
8/3/2011 07:13:43 pm

My husband loves history and historical fictions so I will definitely pick one or more of these books up for him.

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comeonpeople
8/3/2011 09:34:15 pm

Most intriguing post, thank you!
My "to read" list is growing every day.

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mistah charley, ph.d. link
8/3/2011 10:01:18 pm

I wish to point to an example of the kind of mythologizing that goes on about Sarah Palin - it begins from a personal encounter at a book signing.

http://theconservativetreehouse.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/palin-letter/#more-11084

At c4p, where the first part of this letter was posted, I quoted a bit from the last half and commented. From the letter: "You know me, Sarah, though not by name. You know most everybody here, though few by name. We’re you. You’re us. They prick you and we bleed. They prick us and you bleed. There’s no reason for pretense about it."

In other words, we are all Sarah Palin. Paul McCartney, in his tour of Russia that became the DVD "Back in the USSR", appeared at a music school. He was explaining his thinking about why his songs were so popular. "It's not because I'm so special - it's because I'm so ordinary." Ordinary AND special, I would say - one with an uncommon ability to communicate his common humanity to us in a way that we resonate with it, and really feel a sense of brotherhood/sisterhood with him, and with each other. It is Sarah's ability to evoke that which this author is describing.

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rubbernecking
8/3/2011 11:03:36 pm

I was just thinking I need a friend to stage an intervention because I'm worried about the long term health impact of reading too many Palin emails.

A discussion of Greek mythology is quite the antidote! Thank you!


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V ictoria link
8/3/2011 11:48:47 pm

@ginny - Thanks for your interest, but I doubt you'll find these books at your library. Despite having been represented by one of the best literary agents, and actually being published by one of the most respected publishers in Greece (no, I do not speak Greek - Kedros translated them - Stephen King and I share the same translator) we did not get an American publisher. Libraries do not automatically buy self-published books.

However if you prefer not to order them yourself, and you want your library to do so, I suggest you arm yourself by printing out the review by Steve Donoghue in Historical Novels Reviews Online. He's an extremely respected reviewer (he's also one of the founders of Open Letters Monthly) and may convince them. To get to his review, you can either go to my website, and from there you can click on a link that will take you to his complete review.

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V ictoria link
8/3/2011 11:52:13 pm

@AvidReader - see my answer to ginny as to why we sel-published. It was better than leaving the manuscripts on our hard drives.

And when I figure out how to market, I'll let you know...

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V ictoria link
8/4/2011 12:05:19 am

@mistah charley, phd:

I took a look at that letter. I think that it shows that some people need to put other people on pedestals. It's actually a deep, driving need. Because although I think it's fine that SP banters with her daughter, I don't think it's pedestal-worthy.

And that may be why we're fascinated by myths, too - we need to make some people larger than life.

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Brad Scharlott
8/4/2011 12:21:39 am

The more you learn of someone's personal history, in most cases, the more inclined you are to sympathize. Few people are all good or all bad. Oedipus was the original "motherfucker," but he is a sympathetic, tragic figure.

We will probably never know all that much about SP's real family history. Was she somehow subjected to sexual abuse? If she was, and we learned that, would we sympathize more?

Or perhaps it was less dramatic, just a withholding of love/praise by her father or mother unless she convinced them she was "special," thus helping them fill holes in their own psyches.

I'm an average guy, and like most of us I have wanted to be special. But long ago I learned about realistic boundaries to my "specialness," as most of us do. Palin, by a fluke of history, was put in a situation where her unbridled sense of grandiosity met almost no limits from the time she became governor till November 4, 2008. What was she willing to sacrifice to that grandiosity? She did not sleep with a son, but committed acts nearly as breathtaking, and perhaps as likely to become modern-day myths.

Would we forgive Palin's epic dishonesty if we knew more about her inner demons? I wonder.

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Laura Novak link
8/4/2011 12:52:29 am

Victoria, you and Alice really have put together an impressive body of work. Jocasta reads beautifully with such precise historical detail. I don't feel there is a misstep in the entire story.

I'm also intrigued by the threat to expose O's adoption. Jocasta is terrified when she learns that Oedipus will find out, which will then lead to other "truths" - in this case, the worst truth of them all.

Even if I weren't writing this blog, I wonder if the parallels to the Palin story would hit me so hard. I suspect they would. She is history writ large.

And as Brad so eloquently puts it, Palin possessed the same qualities and even character flaws we all do, yet fate threw her into the greater universe, and she was/is lacking that fundamental emotional control that might have forced her to Make.It.Stop.

Do our crazies in history only ever find out the hard way? Perhaps. That's why we know of them after all.

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V ictoria link
8/4/2011 01:01:48 am

@Brad - we occasionally used the MF term in the original draft - but it's not in the book available to readers!

I'm sure that Palin could be written in a sympathetic fashion. However, I think there's simply something wrong with her. She seems so needy of approval, so desperate to be perfect, that she can't say that she mispoke wrt Paul Revere. She wants - wants - wants!

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lilly lily
8/4/2011 01:04:32 am

Palin lies to herself.

She lied to her father backed up by her sisters.

She lied in school.

She lied to her husband often. She lies to her following. She lies everytime she speaks.

She lied in her books.

She lies in her $100,000 chats.

It seems she is incapable of speaking the truth. It stops in her throat and gags her.

Is there any mythic character who exhibits such a monstrous flaw of character?

Odysseus was wiley, he could twist and turn to accomadate to and use any situation to his advantage. And ruthless? Ruthless and manipulation were his middle names.

I don't think she is large enough to be a greek myth.

More a weasely half baked politician in Rome. As one Roman said, "Politicians aren't born they are excreted."

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Molly
8/4/2011 01:12:35 am

Fascinating discussion. I'll just stay on the sidelines and enjoy it as I don't know too much about Greek mythology.

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Brad Scharlott
8/4/2011 01:55:32 am

In an email to Laura I wrote the following, which she suggested I share here since it is apropos of the topic:

So, is one secret of really great writing having insights into the human condition? I'm thinking of fiction writing here. I think the answer is yes. Some of the most compelling passages in your novel had to do with Clari coming to grips with her own insecurities.

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V ictoria link
8/4/2011 02:02:34 am

@Brad - writing well is really hard. There's so much to do - plot, character arcs, description, dialogue - and yes, understanding the human condition a little and portraying it in words.

I personally am not a great writer. I am fortunate in that I have a coauthor who magically complements my deficiencies.

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lilly lily
8/4/2011 02:47:15 am

In one aspect I have enjoyed the blogs about Palin and her flaws. We need to write and comment to counter her myth making.

Palin is attempting to create her own myth.

Queen Esther? My word isn't that a lot of hubris? LOL. And I'm the Queen of Romania.

The North Star? Polaris? So I'll say I'm the morning and evening star (Venus to everyone else.)lol..

Mama Grizzly, Pit bull with lipstick? Tough as nails.

God wants her in office? Her destiny? I DON"T THINK SO.

No.. I think S.P.'s destiny is to fail, and fail big time... To be an example of gall and nerve and what it is to overreach.

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Viola-Alex
8/4/2011 03:04:59 am

@Brad. . .

It is my opinion that the reason Palin obsesses so many of us is that she does reveal her nature, over and over again. She is not the controlled, experienced politician that Hillary is. Palin will not be spun! So, yes, the character is there, and we're all following her story. Aghast, appalled, but enthralled.

Lawrence Durrell, a novelist, wrote that character is secondary to place. That if you nail the PLACE as a writer, the characters will come. Interestingly enough, Palin answers that criterion too!

Alaska created her as much as her family and genes did. The outpost that is equally churches and bars, where people go who can't breathe anywhere else, that place that is so beautiful and yet has the highest child abuse in the US. . .

I follow Palin because I cannot wait to see what happens next. She is better than any contemporary novel, film, tv show.

And that's why writing fiction is so hard!

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rubbernecking
8/4/2011 03:39:55 am

A self-taught historian named Barbara Tuchman wrote a great book called "March of Folly" and if she were alive today, she'd have plenty of US material for another edition. The premise of her book is there are four types of misgovernment in history: tyranny, excessive ambition, incompetence or decadence, and folly. She says that these types of misgovernment are often practiced in combination but her book focuses specifically on examples of folly, or what she describes as the "pursuit of policy contrary to self-interest."

Tuchman warns about a type of folly caused by religious mania--when certain religious beliefs lead a political leader to make shockingly stupid decisions.

In one example, she describes how a very small number of Spaniards were able to defeat the large and sophisticated Aztec empire in the 1500s. The Aztecs' tragic error was their emperor Montezuma believed the Spanish leader Cortez was an Aztec god whose return to earth had been predicted by certain religious omens. Montezuma made choices consistent with the Aztec religious predictions, rather than choices consistent with defending an empire and its people. When I read about Rumsfield adding biblical quotes to Bush's war briefing docs and Palin's interest in Israel, I was reminded of this story.

Palin's accepting the VP nomination qualifies for three of the four types of misgovernment: excessive ambition, incompetence, and folly. Even without the baby drama, how exactly does a woman struggling to govern Alaska convince herself that she is the best VP choice for an elderly cancer survivor? If you view Palin as leader in the throes of religious mania, it's possible to see different motives her actions. If enough people in Palin's inner circle also believed she had a special destiny from god, maybe this also contributed to their "suspension of disbelief" about her unusual appearance and behavior.

There have always been scenarios where a woman needed to disguise a pregnancy or mislead people about when a pregnancy began. Assume a woman has an unplanned pregnancy and wishes to deceive her family and associates about when she actually conceived. How long could a woman use diet, exercise, and restrictive underclothing to disguise her appearance?

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V ictoria link
8/4/2011 03:40:07 am

A little bit of philosophizing, an outgrowth of my many hours contemplating the past. I think that people’s natures were very similar back then to the way they are today – but the situation has changed a bit. Back then loyalty trumped truth – it had to, if you wanted to survive.

For those who lived in city states, you had to be loyal to your king and your city, because there was always the possibility of attack. Even if you thought your king was a jerk, you still needed him to protect you.

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FrostyAK
8/4/2011 05:22:45 am

Not sure this has relevance to the topic or not, but the thought just struck me. I have heard people described as "energy vampires" - they suck the life and joy out of everything around them.

I believe that is the case with $P. One can only surmise what makes someone an "energy vampire", but it seems to be a lack of 'self', delusions of grandeur, and a bevy of enablers. All of which she has in spades.

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lilly lily
8/4/2011 05:51:09 am

Different times, different people. Even peoples supposed needs and acceptance of very peculiar mores changes with time, and place. Even in decades expectations change.

While we are all human, and want love, acceptance and honor of one kind or another, how one goes about getting that in a different time is predicated on one basic need. Sex. Without it Human beings will become extinct. A food source, otherwise we starve. A structured society to protect us from predation either human or of natural disasters.

How men control women is a complex story unto itself. We women here in the U.S.A. are priveleged to be Woman who can have it all without a need for men economically if that is what we choose.

In my generation, (probably the last of its kind here in the states) nice girls in the middle class were expected to remain in their parents home under the control and eye of the father and mother, to behave with circumspection ( no illegitamate children) then pass into the hands of their husbands and share in a adult relationship with honor in being merely a wife and a mother if that was what she chose. Nothing else was required. Assuming the men were decent, honorable and remained in love with their wives.

My generation did have economic advantages, could have some careers, but there were glass ceilings everywhere, which womens lib changed.

So did women grow up into those freedoms? Some did, and some didn't.

Sarah Palin saw her opportunity, used sex and charm as leverage. Became a big fish in a small pond using her physical assets, and bullied others. She also excelled at putting her henchmen in high places they as unqualified for as she was in her first Mayor and then Governors office.

The only problem for Sarah is she is lacking in brains, discretion, grace under pressure, lacking an intelligent understanding of the world and world affairs. No geography lessons for Sarah. No lessons or learning except the grab for power. No she is a wheeler dealer in quid pro quo. I'll scratch your back and you scratch mine. Back room politics, puppetmasters lining her pockets with sweetheart deals. T.V., stacked book sales and a great contract. Made up speaking engagements will shill backing.

She is now officially a rich woman, pretending to have a brain.

Even Faux is turning against her. Two of Faux men admit they cushion any real
critism, and they have no respect for her lacking any ability (brains) for her position. But she is their co-worker and they like collecting a paycheck from Murdoch and Ailes, so they kept their mouths shut.

Ailes has called her stupid.

How soon will she be out on her ear? I think she will never sign another contract as a political analyst. She has been a disaster for Faux. She is laughed at everwhere, except by her worshipping bots.

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Cracklin' Charlie
8/4/2011 05:53:10 am

lily lily,

You have completely nailed my reasons for following the Palin melodrama. I HATE to be lied to, and since the day I saw this woman, I knew she was lying about everything.
When I know someone is lying to me about something, I will work twice as hard to prove them wrong. To me, there is never any reason to lie. Living a truthful existence makes finding solutions to everyday problems, large and small, easier to obtain. Lying complicates everything.
Brad, your comment about great writing providing insight into the human condition is really true. I have spent the past several months reading some of the best works of fiction from this century (my New Year resolution, as I am normally a non-fiction reader)and just about everything that I have read is just as you said, "insight into the human condition". The Good Earth, Go Tell it on the Mountain, Out of Africa, The Sound and the Fury, all are stories about the "human condition". I have enjoyed myself immensely, and it's one of the few resolutions that I have ever stuck with.

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lilly lily
8/4/2011 08:00:16 am

So the two at Faux are walking back their remarks about softballs for Sarah Palin.

Just joking.

I guess they like their paychecks.

So evryone at Faux keeps their mouths buttoned while Queen Esther runs around with no clothes. (metaphor, just joking here.)

Sorry Mr. Ailes. You pay for what you get. A very stupid rabble rousing broad in a Wig, running around clicking a cigarette lighter on and off near a shed filled with nitro-glycerin.

Hope the investigators will have the executives at Faux, sweating like Murdoch and the rest of the gang in England.

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comeonpeople
8/4/2011 08:04:43 am

Sometimes I joke that humans on earth are just some very advanced alien graduate student's research project.....how many frickin times can civilizations evolve yet keep making the same damn mistakes?

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Laura Novak link
8/4/2011 08:11:48 am

I'm not surprised they are walking it back, Lilly. My only question is WHY everyone tip toes around her. There is a saying: "helpless people have way of controlling everyone around them." Somehow, some way, that is the case with her. I don't find her worthy of defending, based on her TV commentary alone (even if I WERE a fan or supporter) but perhaps it's seen as a violation of the big boss to pick on her.

At any rate, Heather Mills is now in the game, calling out Morgan and how he knew what he knew about her phone call from Sir Paul. Bit by bit the story grows. Where it stops, nobody knows.

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lilly lily
8/4/2011 08:58:04 am

According to Tom Watson the M.P.who really knows what is going on. It is deeper and worse than we can imagine. Tom Watson was the hardest hitting of that group, (he had been targeted by the editor because he faulted her favorite, Tony Blair).

I liked the man from Lymekiln, Paul something or other, (I've already forgotten his name though I watched the hearing.) Louise M. gave Piers Morgan a hard time, and he tried to give her a hard time and wanted an apology on T.V... He didn't get it. LOL. Of course he knew they were hacking into celebrity and politician and common citizens phones, and their e-mail. It is obvious.

As far as Palin. Ailes has said she is stupid, and he walked that remark back.

Palin is so stuffed with meds that I'm surprised she can talk at all. She is a timebomb waiting to explode.

She is sending old photos out to her following. One with Trig when he was younger, must have been the day of the funeral when she brought along Piper in jeans and a t-shirt.

They are also getting photos of her hauling nets and working hard in Dillinham. Proving of course that Sarah might be Queen Esther or the North Star, but is one of the little hard working people as well.

All things to all people.

Take your pick.

Perhaps she will dissolve into pure gibberish on the air one day. Yet who would know the difference between pure insane gibberish and her usual babbling?

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Molly
8/4/2011 09:07:04 am

Laura, like you, I simply can't understand why everyone tip toes around her either. I distinctly remember the 29th of August,2008. I live in Europe and had just returned from a holiday in France that day. I turned on the computer and saw that McCain had picked Palin as his running mate. I knew nothing about the woman, but after a day or two on the googles researching her and simply just trying to find out a little more about her, I was absolutely horrified. It was clear to me from the start that she was completely unqualifed, and as everyone kept saying at the time, she would be just one heartbeat away from the presidency. At the time, her lack of qualifications was my biggest worry.

Then, I listened to her speech at the RNC and I felt utterly sick. I thought the speech was disgusting...full of lies and smart ass jokes. I couldn't believe that a woman would stand before the world mouthing those obscenities. I honestly have never had such a visceral dislike of another human being as I had that day. I vowed there and then that I would do all in my power (from afar) to ensure that this "woman" would never get anywhere near the reins of power. I honestly never thought that nearly three years later, I would still be on the blogs throwing in my two cents worth.

It is odd how most people had a visceral dislike of her, and yet others loved her. I can see nothing lovable about her. I don't think she has any redeeming features and I simply can't understand why certain people go to such lengths to protect her.

I find it all very strange!

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Lidia17
8/4/2011 09:33:52 am

@Victoria, "…you had to be loyal to your king and your city, because there was always the possibility of attack. Even if you thought your king was a jerk, you still needed him to protect you."

Has the situation really changed at all? 9/11? False flags? Bush? "Loyalty trumped truth…" What are we seeing in the Murdoch fiasco?

--
@rubbernecking, you must be unconsciously trying to win me over, as I happen to be currently reading Tuchman's "Distant Mirror". I understand (while rejecting in modern terms, of course) a contextual "need" for subterfuge, certainly more justifiable in that day and age than this.

"There have always been scenarios where a woman needed to disguise a pregnancy or mislead people about when a pregnancy began. Assume a woman has an unplanned pregnancy and wishes to deceive her family and associates about when she actually conceived. How long could a woman use diet, exercise, and restrictive underclothing to disguise her appearance? "

Fascinating that you would invoke mediaeval "Pope Joan"-type thinking in the service of shielding the latter-day Mrs. Palin from reprobation.


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Conscious at last!
8/4/2011 12:59:56 pm

@ rubbernecking

So were you suggesting that Sarah Palin was trying to HIDE a pregnancy or fudge the date of conception --- or did you mean that it was BRISTOL Palin who was trying to "disguise her appearance?"



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V ictoria link
8/4/2011 01:55:27 pm

@Lidia - I agree that the reactions and attitudes after 9-11 reminded me greatly of the past. But I think they're much more obvious in other places and organizations - such as the tribes of Afghanistan.

And in fact these attitudes seem stronger to me on the right of our country than they do on the left. Although I go nuts about their disregard for the truth, I have to admit that their loyalty and their cohesiveness make them into an effective force. If only they would use it for good, instead of to lie about Death Panels! If only they were reality-based! And if only they shared some of my ends - then their means might be tolerable!

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rubbernecking
8/4/2011 02:05:48 pm

@Lidia, I haven't read "Distant Mirror" so I don't get the Pope Joan reference. I thought Joan pretended to be a man to become pope? Didn't the pregnancy cause Joan to lose power, not gain it?

Here's my mindset. In engineering disciplines, sometimes you encounter a wildly unexpected failure, a failure that can appear "impossible" to the designers. While sabotage might be the culprit, engineers have to rule out all other possibilities first. This means verifying how you know what you think you know. It means asking people how they made calculations, and confirming their inputs, and confirming what was designed actually matches what was built, and so on.

I am asking sincere questions. Is it *actually* possible to disguise a real pregnancy? How long could someone hide a pregnancy if she were really motivated?
Would a very hidden pregnancy develop differently than a normal pregnancy? Does anyone know?

The birth certificate remains the big red flag for me that her story is untrue.

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SLQ
8/4/2011 04:31:23 pm

Molly -- spot on!!

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SLQ
8/4/2011 04:39:59 pm

"Like I totally said something about, you know, Sarah, during study hall. And like it totally got back to her. And she was like so totally POed at me, gol! Now I can't like, you know, even see her in the hallway."

(I saw this on a comment on the CNN story about the walk-back, and laughed so hard, I had to share.)

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K.M.R
8/4/2011 07:03:30 pm

I enjoyed this interview with Victoria and learning about Jocasta: The Mother-Wife of Oedipus.
Victoria's trilogy sounds inviting as well.

I'm currently reading a delicious trilogy by Penny Vincenzi; No Angel, Something Dangerous, and Into Temptation. Not a mythical work, but it almost feels as though it is because truth wants to free the characters from their mistakes, if they could only see it that way. Mistakes that follow them from generation after generation. Vincenzi's writing talent aptly depicts not only a historical saga dating from 1904 onwards. With her gift of the written word, she is also able to convey the circumstances that drive the complexity of the human side of things.
Interestingly, for me anyway, it is this same type of energy in myself, of wanting to understand the nature of our humanness, that first attracted me to the Sarah Palin drama.

Contradiction though it might seem, that is also what made me hesitant to lay the blame for all that SP does, and doesn't do, on a personality disorder. I'm more inclined to think that ones backstory, and trying to keep it from the light of day, rather than actual brain abnormalities, causes desperation in some people. From that state of desperation, extreme behavior results.

Thank you Laura and Victoria.

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lilly lily
8/5/2011 12:36:43 am

There is no need to be loyal to McCain or Palin. Neither is of value or worth to the U.S.A..

To themselves, and their families perhaps, but to the American people? Nada. Zilch. Loyalty to these worthless polls? Nothing there but inflated egos?

Since reason doesn't work, I use humor and I laugh a great deal about her strange manners.Thank god for the humorists and jokes they make. I particularly like Jimmy Kimmel when he takes her nonsense on and gently points out her stupidity.

Winking at the electorate? Stupid macho putdowns of the sitting President?
Her constant reference to the supposed pedophelia intent of those who cross her, rape of her daughters?

She is repellent. An imitation man.

Crazy, crazy, crazy psycho babble dredged up from her sub concious. The woman is mentally ill, and should never have been allowed to continue her run for VP. The McCain camp knew, and allowed it because they refused to admit the obvious. That their choice of candidate was a mental case.

They have a lot to account for, and will still protect her? Bizarre. Eventually they will be called to account for their folly and deceit.

They could have allowed her to back out gracefully using Family issues that needed to be seen to. Like Trig and all the care he was denied while she dragged him around.Selfish, preening bitch that she is. No boundries. Her needs are paramount and everyone else in her family, and the U.S.A. is supposed to support Queen Esther, the North Star , grizzly mom. LOL. I mean pick one, you can't be all of them.

Then she latched onto the Tea Party and hitched a ride, and when will they have the sense to discard her?

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Ivyfree
8/5/2011 01:54:58 am

"Would we forgive Palin's epic dishonesty if we knew more about her inner demons? I wonder."

I can't speak for others, but for me, no. She's an adult. Other people have inner demons but don't become dishonest, or callous, or criminal.








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