Sarah Is Such A Tool

9/9/2011

It is always so nice to receive an email like this from a regular commenter and great thinker like Jeff. I felt it was worth sharing his essay with all of you. Jeff's trenchant thoughts didn't deserve to lay idle in my inbox. Thank you for this guest post, Jeff. Take it away...then let's discuss!

Sarah Palin is a fascinating study in human behavior and I've become enamored with her story. But my own curiosity leads me to wonder if she is performing merely as the distraction for what's really going on outside the media spotlight. This leads me to wonder what the awareness level of Sarah's real role is among the professional media. Do you think journalists like Ezra Klein see and understand more of the back-story and realize they must play along by turning a blind eye to the power plays occurring behind the scenes in order to remain semi-relevant?

I agree with the theories on what's happening behind the curtain with the power brokers and king makers. But my feeling is that the attention span of folks is so short that their eyes will glaze over before they get to the point of understanding how power is centralized in our society among a small group who use the political process to further their agenda. Sarah is just a tool. She's a tool because she's been compromised so many times over throughout her political career. I believe that she might really think sometimes that she's in control of her mission, but to believe that she has to deny her limitations and why they exist. Or maybe she really is that "slow".

Regardless, Sarah is more of a symptom instead of the problem though, but I do hope she can be exposed for what she is at some point, because any political power she welds is in the hands of a crazy, erratic person without scruples. But in the big picture, if it is not Sarah, I'm afraid that it will be Rick Perry playing the same role on behalf of the same "powerful elite". In other words, the beat goes on and we can only do what we can do.

I don't understand all of the dynamics of politics and power by any means, but I do know that in the economic/political power game, everyone acts out of their own self-interest, and that there is power in the hands of a relatively small group in our country and the world. As our country's economy becomes more and more inter-dependent on the geo-political situations in other regions, the lines become more and more blurred as to what is right/wrong in terms of what is "best" for our country vs what's fair to all involved. It's disheartening to me when I see that in order for our country's economy to thrive, that other regions and peoples of the world must pay the price of living in substandard conditions under a strongman of the choosing of our country's powerful elite. But it's naive to ignore that during the times of our economic growth and prosperity, dictators supported or propped up by our military are essentially raping their own countries of its resources and the US is a direct beneficiary.

I'm sure that this stuff has gone on for as long as man has been around--- the exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few--- but I wasn't aware of the scope of it until I became interested in politics in the late 70's. Then again, to that point I was more focused on who I was taking to the prom or who our next game was against. Anyway, I was shocked when Reagan picked Bush as his VP running mate, because these two men were so far apart ideologically. The more I've read and researched on what brought about their unholy alliance is what has given me a somewhat cynical or jaded view of politics and power today.

Bottom line is that I wonder if our efforts are well-placed in terms of allocating our time and energy expended in bringing Sarah down. She has been essentially neutered politically already. I can see why she would be a good puppet to have because she has such a low-level of self-awareness. Actually, I believe she has an aversion to reality. Anyway, when she's gone for good, IMHO, there will be someone else to plug into her place. Whether Sarah realizes it or not, she (along with Michele B) has, in effect, been a stalking horse for Rick Perry. I don't know that has been the case all along, but that's where we are now. Perry is just about as inept and as compromised as Palin is, but the main difference is the awareness of the public to Sarah's weaknesses vs ignorance to Perry and all his warts. Perry has already been to the Bilderberg Group and Koch Bros. meetings, and they say that's where the kings ---and queens, almost (Hillary)--- are made. IMHO, the Kochs are just a small, visible subset of the all the power brokers in the game.

President Obama appears to be vulnerable right now, but I can't see anyone on the GOP roster beating him. My gut tells me that unless he really digs in his heels on repealing the Bush tax cuts, that he'll "get a pass" in 2012. But if he makes that a major part of his platform, it's going to be very, very ugly. But that's the best we can hope for, because without some relief for the middle class, things will continue to spiral downward. I was shocked, and disappointed, when he caved in and extended those tax cuts for 2 years in 2010. I just hope I'm not completely naive in that extension of the tax cuts were in the plan all along. I can understand having to make a compromise, but I'm also aware that Pres. Obama has the same pressures made on him as every other candidate for national office. Hence, both he an Hillary had to have the blessing of the Bilderberg Group, et al., before either became a viable candidate.

mistah charley, ph.d.

9/9/2011 08:03:09

Sarah is a puppet, yes, as Rick Perry is a puppet, as Obama is a puppet, and Cheney before him. Sort of. There's a memorable scene in Kurt Vonnegut's novel Breakfast of Champions. Kurt decides to enter the novel himself, and finds when he gets there that he doesn't have as much control over his characters as he thought - instead of being able to move their limbs with steel rods, it's more like he has to try to exert control through stale rubber bands. Metaphorically speaking. The same with our figurehead "leaders", whom we "elect" - mostly they do what their bosses tell them (and if not, they get the JFK treatment), but sometimes they don't. This is one reason why it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future.

I expressed my political views in a comment here on Aug. 30, but to briefly reiterate - observation of Obama's behavior clearly reveals where his loyalties lie. He will continue to promote the interests of the class to whom he owes his current position. As George Carlin said, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it."

And as Carlin also said, "It's not going to get any better. Get used to it."

I think he's right, for the foreseeable future - however long that is.

KMR

9/9/2011 08:09:58

A very good piece Jeff. Thank you.
You mention, among other things, your shock that "Reagan picked Bush as his VP running mate, because these two men were so far apart ideologically."
On a similar note, which might just speak in a general way your (and mine) concerns, I was surprised to learn that JFK didn't want LBJ to go on to be president yet he picked him as his running mate.
Diane Sawyer is doing a special about just that. It's entitled, "Jacqueline Kennedy: In Her Own Words" Tuesday 13 at 9:00 p.m. ET on ABC.

By RICK KLEIN (@rickklein) at http://tinyurl.com/4xyrnso
President John F. Kennedy was so "worried for the country" about the prospect that Vice President Lyndon Johnson might succeed him as president that he'd begun having private conversations about who should become the Democratic Party's standard-bearer in 1968, Jacqueline Kennedy recalled in a series of oral-history interviews recorded in early 1964.
She said her husband believed strongly that Johnson shouldn't become president and, in the months before his death in November 1963, he'd begun talking to his brother, Robert Kennedy, about ways to maneuver around Johnson in 1968.

"Bobby told me this later, and I know Jack said it to me sometimes. He said, 'Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon was president?'" she said.
--
nodding my head in agreement with what mistah charley, ph.d. just said above.

Think about it

9/9/2011 08:25:03

What's fascinating is there is a prominent black man and a prominent woman (the TWO groups of people that receive the most hate in this country) in today's world who have more in common than the human brain allows into its circuitry.

Someone needs to write a comprehensive book about Barack Obama AND Sarah Palin together: how they rose to power in the same fashion, the machine behind them, and finally deconstruct the empty suits that is both of them.

Looking at things in a full objective manner, the democrats and republicans both use cliches and gimmicks to win power and influence. Each party just refuses to admit it and Americans choose to ignore it.

ja.thought

9/9/2011 08:26:38

Sarah just might be finding herself on the wane with respect to corporate and special interest power makers. Might this explain her recent remarks, critical of such, added to her standard anti-Obama speech?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/us/10iht-currents10.html?_r=1&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB
(first link posted on JMcG blog)

Floyd M. Orr link

9/9/2011 08:30:51

Woohoo! The intellectual blog strikes again!

My favorite version of this story is the old Bill Hicks bit in which the newly elected President is ushered into a secluded basement room somewhere and shown a short film of The JFK Assassination from an angle that clearly includes The Grassy Knoll. This is a film different from the famous Zapruder Film and one of which the public is unaware. After viewing the clip, the President is asked if he has any questions.

The great Bill Hicks. May he rest in peace.

Melly

9/9/2011 08:38:20

I'm taking the curtain. Today's NYT article and the INCREDIBLY FRIGHTENING comments to it are the last straw for my nervous system. I'm so grateful to Laura and Brad, Gryph, even Joe McG, F. Bailey, Broomfield, Regina, Patrick, Kathleen, and everyone who has researched their hearts out to reveal SP, but I'm heartsick at the prospect of what's coming. Need a rest.

AFM

9/9/2011 08:58:31

Anyone with a brain must realize that the media is owned by big corporations and it isn't liberal like the right likes us to believe. I am afraid it doesn't matter what party is in the president has to be accountable to the big spenders. Until that chain is broken the american people are the losers. I only have a high school education and I can see it and don't understand the smart people who know what to do about it have tried.

I am afraid people are going to get to the point where enough is enough and there will be rioting in the streets. We need to get corporations out of the election process. We are on our way to a facist government if we keep going on like this.

Bobcat Logic

9/9/2011 08:59:15

There is a theory that Palin's entry into the race would split the Dominionist vote which otherwise would all go to Rick Perry, thus giving Romney a better chance of eventually prevailing. But then he's going to need a running mate who would appeal to the base, and we know where that kind of thinking led before.

There is also a theory that running against Palin (as Pres. or VP) would be ideal for Obama.

@ Floyd
Makes you wonder about what kind of briefings Obama and team got during the transition. I've heard rumors...

Dicer

9/9/2011 09:07:08

How complicit the media in all of this, e.g NYT article: who are they giving credit to, Palin or her Ghost writer?

It scares me to think, where it not for social media, bloggers,where would we be today and it is still not pretty. Case in point, a secret tape made public of the Koch brothers confab, showing their dark plottings.

Obama is not an empty shell,unlike Palin who would do anything for money.

FrostyAK

9/9/2011 09:20:04

Thank you, Jeff, for saying so eloquently and succinctly what I believe many of us feel.

As I feel powerless to do anything about the big picture, I have chosen a small (and very personal, as an Alaskan) part and tried to do something about it. That small part is $P.

We know for a certainty that she was coached about what to do and say by the power brokers and the Dominionists - most of them are one and the same, using religion to demolish a democracy. What they didn't count on was her narcissism and utter stupidity. So, she has been thrown aside for Slick Rick who toes the line. She won't like that, but there is little she can do, other than to openly admit what she did, and who the puppet masters are. They will pay her to keep quiet, sedate her, and show her that JFK movie that Floyd talks about. ;-)

I believe that anyone who aspires to the presidency is controlled by the Bilderbergers and their ilk. But they want us to think we still have a choice, so we go out and vote on the Diebold machines they provide for us. Money talks/rules, and they hold all the money. The American people have been so dumbed down by the talking heads on teevee, that they live in a happy dream - that they actually have a voice in their own destiny. Reminds me of '1984', a book that I first read only recently. It was so much like what we are experiencing, I was dumbfounded.

Now that I have opened the can of worms on media, how Matrix-like is the 'reality' we are living? The truth isn't pretty, or happy, or fulfilling, but I still want the truth. I think most of us here feel the same way. So much drama perpetrated by the major news organizations. So little truth. A shame so many choose to live in their dreamlike bubbles, until their bubbles burst and they disappear from sight. How many news stories do we hear now about those who lost everything in the 'crash'? Those who are still living in their cars or on the street? They are the forgotten. And the super happy American dream goes on, until it doesn't.

I expect 'they' will use this 9/11 10th anniversary drama to get the US citizens all riled up again about those heathens that would fly planes into OUR buildings. Expect more violence and possibly more war. I happen to subscribe to the conspiracy theories on that little episode (9/11) as well... false flag. Brasscheck tv on the web has an excellent collection of videos about that and so much more. Former FBI and other officials talking about it.

So, now that I have confirmed myself to be a whacko and conspiracy theorist, I will leave the commenting to the rest.

"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and carrying a cross."

Sick of Sarah

9/9/2011 09:21:25

ANY news from Anon238?
Please give us more!

krbmjb05

9/9/2011 09:22:47

Like you said, there will ALWAYS be a puppet for the Oz (or few Oz's) behind the curtain.

It's not time to abandon "finishing off" Palin. In no way is this comment meant as being violent, etc, but it's the best analogy. We have wounded the snake, but until the head is chopped off, I will not feel safe. Even after the head is chopped off, the body still writhers for a while.

Yes, it is VERY apparent that there are other snakes in the grass waiting, but the snake with the bump-it and wonky eye still needs to be watched - she is still rattling in the bushes!

Viola-Alex

9/9/2011 09:23:35

Welcome to the podium, Jeff!

You're right. Those with power have always engineered situations to their advantage. What keeps me going is WHEN that doesn't happen. Barbara Jordan in Texas, Donna Frye here in San Diego, Al Franken-- even the good done by corrupt politicians like JFK, even LBJ.

I believe that staying on Palin's case could result in enough salaciousness to scorch a small swath through even the emptiest minds in this country. Scandal is the only weapon left. If her hoax is exposed, the complicit may stand a chance at accountability.

I totally agree with JA Thought's comment and that stooge at the NYT. Palin's speech about "cronies" was about THOSE GUYS who dropped her! They courted her, they bought her stuff, they taught her how to use lobbyists in Wasilla, then they realized she was not good enough.

Can you imagine that? All those power guys swarming you-- and then suddenly, they're gone. They're back in the locker room laughing their asses off, and Sarah Palin knows it.

KMR

9/9/2011 09:40:15

Frosty, Another whacko and conspiracy theorist here.
We are not alone. Have you seen this site: http://pilotsfor911truth.org ?
These professionals want the truth too.

Wanting to know the truth about SP and in all things, is our common denominator, I do believe.

Tom link

9/9/2011 10:36:21

@Laura and Jeff

As usual this type of conversation brings to mind 'It Can't Happen Here' by Sinclair Lewis and 'Captains and Kings' by Taylor Caldwell.

I had read the Lewis book way way back when and hadn't thought of it again 'til last summer. Reading, watching, listening to what's going on brought 'It Can't Happen Here' to mind. Not actually, I just knew I read a book a long time ago that reminded me of today's (last summer) political and economic climate. Finally I remembered 'It Can't Happen Here'. So, you see, my memory told me this whole scenario was familiar. Yet the book was written in 1935. Lewis saw it---Hitler, Mussolini. Had seen it---Franco.

If I didn't know who spoke the quotes referenced in the NYT article linked by Joe Mc I'd vote for that person. Since I kknow that someone wrote the speech for her, and that she constantly referred to her notes, she didn't know what she was saying. Those words implied corporate/government collusion. Has she gone mad, biting the hands that feed her? Doesn't she know that she's not for the common folk, that that's just a pretense?

LIZ

9/9/2011 10:36:24

Frosty and KMR. THUMBS UP

AkPetMom

9/9/2011 11:24:43

I just feel more and more that "We The People" no longer have a voice or a vote that counts. Sure we do in local elections, but even some of those are suspect. We are currently riding a tide where the "uber rich" are controlling the country. In time, the tide will turn; in our lifetime or not, change will happen, but for now it's every man or woman for his or her own.

Take every tax break that you can and watch your investments carefully. Sometimes a cash savings is the best bet against future market instability so go half cash savings and half retirement investment. Pay for the house that you are living in instead of trading up every few years. Drive older cars and pay cash for a used car when the old one gives out. Go for a 15-year mortgage instead of a 30. America wants to keep us in debt right now to strengthen the bottom line but don't buy into that. Make a point to own something, your car, your home, don't rely on credit cards. Be the master of your own financial destiny and you can weather any storm, any political or financial storm. Don't play the game and you will come out ahead.

nancydrewed link

9/9/2011 11:51:20

Jeff -- My spouse, the academic, worked for many years at the Pentagon as a budget analyst (top-level security clearance and West Wing meetings on occasion) by day, doctoral student by night. He has an expression leftover from those days that came out of one of the shops, and he still uses it as shorthand. "Playing the piano downstairs" -- which means you're working away doing your best and the action is actually elsewhere. Two floors up, and no one can hear the music. No one knows that you're even at the piano.

I think that's what you've described and that's where we are. Please see recent revelations by the staffers on the Hill (James Fallows at The Atlantic is one set of links); I think we know what we need to know going forward. Palin was a much more useful puppet than anyone could have foreseen. But the "game" has been permanently altered. I doubt the TP would have taken off as it did without her entry into the "arena".

Ain't that scary?

nancydrewed

9/9/2011 11:57:46

Jeff -- Forgot this part -- excellent post. :-)

9/9/2011 11:58:01

@Sick of Sarah: if anon238 is Joe McG, as some of us have speculated, we might not hear from him again.
@AkPetMom: words to live by!

myrna nichols

9/9/2011 12:01:03

My vote is to continue to dig deeply and unmask Sarah Palin for the fraud that she is. It should be done to cripple her, because like the legendary phoenix, she just might rise again. (Rick and Michele will not always be around). She also has a dangerous following that threatens people and might be capable of worse. Those fanatics need to know that they have been following a fake.

The other reason that Sarah has to be unmasked is that it serves as a cautionary tale for the other fakes out there. Her story is the story of other politicians who trade on their public image without having the underlying substance. The story is that if Sarah is unmasked, then others may follow as well.

I loved it when Larry Flyntt offered a million dollars for iron clad proof that a congressman, sitting in judgement of Bill Clinton, had also had sex outside of his marriage. He came up with 8 or 9 hypocrites.

Floyd M. Orr link

9/9/2011 12:04:45

JK, Anon is NOT Joe McG. McGinniss would never in a million years plug PARADIGM SHIFT.

Laura Novak link

9/9/2011 12:07:36

AK Pet Mom, Welcome!! So nice to see you here. I always love to hear your take on things. And you are spot on here.

Thanks again, Jeff, for formulating your thoughts for us all to enjoy.

And Frosty AK, your comment is an essay/post all by itself. I think we'd all appreciate hearing more about this someday. Great work and piece of writing!

nancydrewed link

9/9/2011 12:43:50

@ Floyd. No duh. :-)

9/9/2011 12:55:26

@Floyd: not even to throw us off the scent, in a clever and basically benign way? If memory serves we haven't heard a peep from anon238 since the idea was floated on Laura's blog and IM, which is itself curious, along with the coincidental timing of travel plans. But I guess time will tell.

litbrit link

9/9/2011 13:42:54

The number 238 has been ringing a bell in my busy head since last week, and I was thinking about it again, earlier today, when musing on the same question as others (wondering when and if anon238, who hasn't posted in a while, might reappear).

Suddenly I remembered: Uranium 238--a sort of super-depleted uranium, is just one captured "slow neutron" away from becoming fissile plutonium-239. Which--and this will really freak you out--is the isotope of Plutonium used in nuclear weapons.

One captured Slow Neutron away from being a nuclear weapon.

That's a hell of a metaphor for all the toxic leaks that have undoubtedly kicked off a meltdown of a different sort in the Mat-Su valley, don't you think? Only a writer would have that special species of wacko rats scurrying around his or her brain. I know. My own frontal cortices are overrun with the critters.

With that in mind, and having just sat down to my laptop, I did a google search on Joe McGuinness and Uranium 238 and lo and behold, not only did he write a post on his blog about the crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi plant in Japan (link: http://www.joemcginniss.net/as-a-change-of-pace-heres-something-serious-to-get-your-knickers-in-a-twist-about/Joe%20McGinniss ), one of Joe's commenters actually goes into detail about the material used therein as well as in weapons deployed in Iraq and beyond: Plutonium 239 and Uranium 238 (link to comment: http://www.joemcginniss.net/as-a-change-of-pace-heres-something-serious-to-get-your-knickers-in-a-twist-about/Joe%20McGinniss#comment-19579 ).

I cannot say with certainty that it's him, as Anthony Weiner might say, but I can say so with a fair amount of conviction and no small amount of writerly "gut". HA!

LizH

9/9/2011 13:47:43

Frosty, KMR & Liz,
Thanks so much and double thumbs up from me on conspiracy theories. Thanks for the pilots for 911 reference, as I was aware of architects and engineers for 911. For readings: David Ray Griffin and Michael Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon."
The books put the entire Sarah Palin Pregnancy Hoax in context, as well as Floyd Orr's Paradigm Shift.
Thanks Jeff - awesome post. Laura - thank you for such a wonderful blog and for providing an oasis for many of us to retain our sanity.
Back to lurking. Thank you. LizH

I certainly understand if you put this in commenter's purgatory for references to conspiracy theories but just have to say that Sarah Palin is not the first, nor the biggest hoax in the past decade of our lives.

litbrit link

9/9/2011 13:48:34

(McGinniss, not McGuinness. Clearly I have beer *on* the brain while also having rats inside it.)

lisa

9/9/2011 13:55:33

The comment that Obama and Palin are cut from the same cloth is hyper paranoid. The man worked the street in very challenged communities and was a successful law student at a very prestigious university. I think Palin caught the eye of the GOP operatives who are always looking for a “face” upon which to attach their motives. Somehow it is straight-up bizarre to think Obama became a community organizer to become the “candidate” for the Dems. There is a lot learned in the trenches that isn’t easy to forget. Despite this, I do think our govt is run by a few who have their determined view of the world and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that Obama was given the talk to play along or get along.

Tom link

9/9/2011 14:03:20

@litbrit

Wasn't the 238 the time of gay she first posted, as in 2:38?

In any case, I like it. I had thought of Joe Mc/anon 238 because the person was privy and could write very well. As mentioned, the timing fit as well. 238 said she (female voice regardless, maybe another diversion) was visiting 9 relatives in 7 cities over three weeks, wasn't it? Lots of imagination if not true.

I hope she's the real thing. It's fun-ner.

SLQ

9/9/2011 14:20:38

Litbrit: Interesting about Uranium 238. But . . . Anon238 is what blog commenters have come to call this person, due to the time he/she first posted. It isn't what this person is calling himself/herself. Are you suggesting that the poster (Joe McGinniss by your theory) managed to post at exactly 2:30 p.m.? Alaska time? His time? With all due respect, that seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

SLQ

9/9/2011 14:23:15

Having been away for a few day, I'm a little confused. People seem to be wondering why Anon "Me Again" hasn't posted in a while. But didn't he/she say he/she was going to focus on family events for the remainder of the vacation? Did I miss something?

litbrit link

9/9/2011 14:34:46

SLQ--ah. For some reason I thought that was his or her chosen nym, not one that was given by others. And no, I am not saying anything other than exactly what I wrote: that I thought the number and Joe were related, due to uranium 238. I have no idea what time he posts comments, as I have not read much over there. At Joe's, I mean.

As I said, I can say it with conviction but not with certainty. I also wondered about RAM and whether or not she might be involved, too. I do feel reasonably certain that the person is either a professional writer or someone who knows one.

jeff

9/9/2011 14:38:35

My eventful Friday afternoon was extended about 4 hours longer than we expected, so I apologize about getting here late to respond to all of your great comments.

I'm humbled by all of your kind words and encouragement. Had I known Laura might use my rambling as a post, I might've given some more careful thought to linking the various random thoughts into an easier-to-read narrative.

As an OCD multi-tasked, I began this screed in the drive-thru waiting space at McDonald's because someone there forgot that having Chicken McNuggets on the menu might actually result having someone order a 10 pc box of those sometime. I guess I lost track of time as they forgot about me and my order, but at some point I quit glancing at my watch every 5 seconds and began to peck out a note on my iPhone to Laura, who is kind enough to actually read my rantings on occasion. Time passed---how much I don't have a clue--- but several minutes later I had the Mickey D's manager at my window, apologizing professedly and offering me an additional 20 chicken nuggets with my order as a "make-good". My dogs thought they had won the lottery, so all was good in the world at that point.

@Laura, I've said it before but saying it again doesn't diminish the thought by repeating:

You have attracted a unique, intelligent group of readers and commenters that makes it such a pleasure to come here and hang out. The opinions and ideas are well-researched, and I learn something new with each visit. I thank you for being the fine journalist that you are in providing a forum for us to discuss, massage and sometimes grind into oblivion the matters of Sarah Lou and her adventures. But mainly I thank you for being the kind, respectful, ethical person that you are, for it is because of you and your commitment to the truth that makes all if these smart folks want to congregate here and share their ideas. So thanks again for sharing and allowing us to do the same.

Jeff

jeff

9/9/2011 14:59:20

@Mistah Charley, good points on JFK and LBJ. The JFK assassination was probably my introduction to study of 20th Century of American History. I've read everything I can get my hands on about that period of history, and although most if the discussion has been about the assassination, I agree that the real lessons have to take into account what was happening in our nation at the time with regard to civil rights, foreign policy, etc.

Also I wanted to offer kudos to you, Mr C--- you are much more diplomatic than me on the C4P site. I am forced to lurk there instead of giving input because I spend most of my time on the "banned list" for trying to engage in adult discussion. Still, I have managed around 80 or 90 likes on my comments that slipped through the cracks, so at least not everyone there is completely close-minded.

jeff

9/9/2011 15:33:58

@Floyd

Bill Hicks is one of the best. I didn't discover him until he had passed, but his words and rants are as relevant today as ever.

Mrs Gunka

9/9/2011 16:49:50

Although I'm not an intellectual, I sure have enjoyed the discussion. Very good post jeff. These ideas have crossed my mind for over 3 years now, but hesitated to write my thoughts. I have used the word puppet masters for 3 years now, and would sure like to know who gives her the marching orders. She perhaps is smarter than she appears, but do believe she has some sort of psychosis that has scrambled her brain and personality. Perhaps something she was able to control when she was chosen but has deteriorated since. It seems to get out of control under pressure as Schmidt discovered trying to tutor her for the debate. Think they have been tutoring Parry in the meantime, when Bachman and O'Donnell proved to be dit's also, too! Bush with the help of Cheney succeeded enough to get thru 8 years. Karl Rove may be playing a big part of this.

I believe Joe McGinnis' ego is getting in his way. He wants to think he is the only one qualified to write the expose and has done his best to put others in the trash...including the bloggers where he gathered much of his info. I suspect he is a Repug who has masked himself as a Progressive to write his book. Roger may be in on the whole book expose.

I have been a 9-11 conspirator since I saw those buildings come down. I did read the pilots article, but it's been a while and all the engineers reactions. With the anniversary Sunday, I hope the sites are posted again. I have lost them and would like to update what has been added.

And I always suspected something fishy with JFK assassination. I watched every minute of the coverage on an old black and white set and saw the shooting of
Lee Harvey Oswald by Jack Ruby on my way out the door to go to church. I never made it to church. Nothing made any sense up to this time and this just made me question what I saw even more. LBJ being sworn in on the plane with Jackie standing there with blood on her suit. I felt like I was watching the weekly show on "Twilight Zone". I'm glad we didn't have high definition color in those days. Too much has happened since the 60's to make me question what goes on behind closed doors in our capitol. Hubby was in the missile and space top clearance work for 30 years and knew what he had to go thru. It has always fascinated me.

V ictoria link

9/9/2011 17:47:23

Interesting, Jeff. I have long wondered what pressures Obama has experienced since coming into office. I believe he's a good and intelligent man but I've wondered at some of his decisions and actions. We will probably never know everything.

One of the frustrating things about the US is that so many people don't question the media. Even though it's clear that the media lied to start a war - and few crimes are as heinous - most people still don't question it. I believe that a large portion of the internet is garbage, but at least it's not *all* garbage.

I spend a lot of time thinking about the ancient Greeks and Romans (click on my name if you want to see why, and if you enjoy fiction please buy my books). The end of the Roman Republic has some things in common with situations today. The ruling classes - a set of patricians who were vastly overrepresented by the Senate - gradually took away the wealth of the middle class, instead creating great slave farms and factories and mines to support themselves (sound familiar?). Eventually Julius Caesar appeared, who had the support of the people, and so the Senate, fearing a loss of power, actually murdered him. Then his great-nephew appeared on the scene and sent armed gangs to kill off his enemies before those enemies could act. Octavian also used the monies gained from those murders (called "proscriptions") to finance the government.

The problem with getting rid of the middle class is that you end up with a vast group who have nothing to lose. I'm not advocating revolution, as they are notoriously hard to control and usually end up being led by the wrong party. But this tendency of the oligarchs to gut the middle class is really short-sighted, because eventually the teeming poor will have no recourse but rebellion.

jeff

9/9/2011 20:40:06

Thanks Mrs G.

I think we share some common concerns. I don't believe that we will ever get the full story on 9/11 and all of the anomalies that surround the events of that fateful day. I've done countless hours of research and reading on what happened leading up to 9/11 and of course, during and following the attacks. I am convinced that there has been a deliberate dis-info campaign conducted in order to thwart a real investigation. Anyone who offered fact-based theories different from the "official" story are met with ridicule designed to shut down a serious discussion. There are shills to support the official story and trolls which will overwhelm with ridiculous theories and junk science in order to make a productive, fact-based, adult difficult if not impossible. I hope we can avoid opening Pandora's box here because it would turn into a crazy-fest to no avail.

Sarah is very small potatoes compared to 9/11. But in the end, those pulling the stings are in the same club. Read about Sybil Edmonds and see her YouTube vids if you're interested in seeing just one example of what our Congress will do to avoid being asked to hear the truth in a public forum where they might be forced to open an investigation they want to avoid at any cost. Sorry. I couldn't help taking a bite on that one.

jeff

9/9/2011 20:56:30

Correction: The name of the Turkish-American woman who seved as an translator for the CIA is Sibil Edmonds (not "Sybil", as I spelled it incorrectly above).

NSG

9/9/2011 21:14:42

Re Anon238, the last post was 9/4 and included this: "I'm leaving on the last leg of my trip, so this will likely be the last time I can reply/post for a bit." Based on the original 3-week travel plan, we shouldn't be surprised not to hear anything til early next week, I assume?

And Jeff, thanks for this. Very thought provoking. I'd love to hear a summary of your understanding of the Reagan/Bush arrangement.

serena1313

9/9/2011 22:20:55

Jeff is absolutely correct.

If you are interested I suggest reading the following books:

1) "The Bush Agenda, Invading The World, One Economy at a Time" by Antonia Juhasz

The history & key role of US corporations that had the most influence on shaping the Bush agenda include: Betchel, Halliburton, LockHeed Martin, & Chevron. Their policies are rooted in the IMF, WTO, WB.

2) "Confessions of a Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins

Perkins invented the term "corporatocracy" which means corporate take-overs.

He explains that an economic hitman(EHM)is someone who is sent to different countries to convince the governments to "modernize", i.e. privatize their infrastructure. The country, then, saddled with debt it can ill-afford to pay goes bankrupt thereby is indebted to the US.

If the President, PM, or Chancellor of that country fails to comply to US terms, he/she will be punished:

Torrijos & Roldos were assassinated.

Noreiga, the Shah of Iran, Chavez, Arbenz, Mossadegh, Allende, just to name a few, were ousted from office and their careers destroyed. Their names do not even appear in our history books.

The sick irony is that they believed in human rights, championed social justice, defended the common welfare, supported environmental preservation, and worked to raise the standard of living. But when they stood up to the corporatocracy their lives were ruined.

Today private interests, big business & mega-transnational corporations are only concerned with making bigger profits. Everything else is secondary.

In an environment where the haves are consumed with greed & materialism there is little room for anything else to flourish, and the have-nots left to their own devices are struggling just to survive.

We can effectuate positive change as long as we, the people, re_member our sense of community and the common good is what keeps us consciously connected to one another, and our humanity alive.

granny j link

9/9/2011 22:57:33

O/T but we have been driving for the past 2 days and I was busy reading your book Laura. Just finished it- and want you to know i enjoyed it tremendously. And the lessons learned at the end-some of those words are going into my journal as soon as I reach my destination. I am going to miss Clari.

KMR

9/9/2011 23:05:21

Look into the far reaching tentacles of The Tavistock Institute to try and uncover who is behind the curtain - you'll be amazed in a frightening way.

The Tavistock Institute did some interesting research after WWII, showing that conditions of stress were conducive to operations attempting to change belief-structures or world-view of society. That in a nutshell is what we are witnessing today with the likes of SP and those like her.

What scares the living daylights out of me is that everything is suspect.
The power grabbers are into every aspect of life as we know it today.
For instance the terrifying idea that they (the-powers-that-be, as some have called them), desire to control even the farmers, world over, with seeds that DO NOT germinate when they are replanted the following season (google Monsanto USDA, US patent no. 5,723,765).
This is overwhelmingly evil.

Another for instance; just look and think about the implications at the attempt to take away the right to allow collective bargaining. If they succeed in taking away negotiating power from the people, then - bingo - they have us where they want us and that is the aim, I do believe - Owing our souls to the company store.

It's everywhere and we need to be very worried but to live in fear is also to let them win.

What I've done to counter my fear of all these behind the scene goings-on, of which I've only mentioned two, is to remember to focus on BEAUTY. For beauty is everywhere, also, too.

jeff

9/9/2011 23:07:47

@NSG

Thanks for your input and comment.

Re Reagan/Bush ticket

Reagan had primaried Ford in 1976 when Ford was the incumbent sitting (is that redundant?) President. Reagan very narrowly lost the GOP primary to Ford, who of course lost to Jimmy Carter in the general election that fall. Essentially, Reagan then campaigned most of Carter's term in office, making speeches and constantly attacking Carter on the economy, which was stumbling, and then in 1979, the hostage crisis became another target for Reagan to exploit.

Although Reagan did not formally announce until Nov-79, it was widely assumed that he would run. After winning the GOP primary handily, Reagan first proffered to Ford to join him on the ticket, thinking that having a former President in the VP slot would give him an edge, but Ford evidently gave signals that he wanted more say-so in Foreign Policy than Reagan wanted to defer to his second in command.

So Reagan's Men (Ed Meese, Don Regan, James Baker, et al) scrapped that idea and switched it's attention to Bush, who had finished 2nd in the primary while winning a handful of states. Bush was known to be much more moderate, and had attacked Reagan's small-government, lower taxes and increased military spending plan (along with Reagan's balanced-budget promise) to be unattainable, or "Voo-doo Economics". Bush had the support of the moderates, and was more of the establishment inside-the-beltway politician, and had good credentials in foreign policy, having already served as ambassadors to the UN and China as well as CIA Director. This gave them an insider/outsider team to pacify those in the moderate wing who thought Reagan was too extreme to the right in his political ideology.

Since I've already commented on too much conspiratorial matter in the post, I'll leave it to the readers to research the benefits of having a tried, true and tested Company man in the #2 spot as a lot of our foreign policy was conducted off the books in covert operations in Central America. I don't mean to imply that Reagan's main reason in choosing Bush was to utilize him as a "hired gun" or behind-the-scenes guy to get things done and give Reagan a cushion of deniability. But clearly those power brokers who saw Bush's versatility were in support of Bush on the ticket. Reagan saw him as helping the ticket be a winner, which it was in '80 and then again in '84 in a landslide. But recall that Reagan, the Great Communicator, was a "big idea" kind of guy who didn't get bogged down in the details in a lot of instances, which allowed for a lot of autonomy and flexibility for those who sought power outside the spotlight of the media. My thoughts, anyway.

9/9/2011 23:31:41

litbrit, maybe you're right about the association: maybe the dice rolled 238 not by design but by karma :)

jeff

9/9/2011 23:36:53

@Serena and KMR,

If I didn't know better I'd say ll have been peeking into my personal library.

Excellent suggested reading! Those should all be required reading for anyone who would agree with the knuckle-headed idea that billions of people in foreign (sovereign!) countries around the world hate the US because of our "freedoms". But many of our friends, co-workers and neighbors buy that line of bullshit without even giving it a 2nd thought.

Think of our covert actions in Iran, Peru, Egypt, and the list goes on and on...

V ictoria link

9/9/2011 23:47:38

@KMR - I agree that it is sometimes difficult to know how to keep up one's spirit. I value truth and beauty, and yet so many seem to be out to crush these things.

Maybe we should all plant vegetable gardens and plant fruit trees. I sometimes am not sure what else can be done.

Ah, my apologies. A down day today. Not sure why.

jeff

9/10/2011 00:06:08

@bobcat
"...theory that Palin's entry into the race would split the Dominionist vote which otherwise would all go to Rick Perry, thus giving Romney a better chance of eventually prevailing."

This, IMHO, is the worst case scenario. I wonder if Palin would "settle" for the 2nd spot. If Perry and Romney both go for the juglar, Palin could be a compromise choice to keep the RWNJ's with the program.

But I can't believe that Palin would stay in the primary to the end to take the VP candidate position.

I'm just tired of hearing her yelping. It's beyond the point of just annoyance.

@FrostyAK,

Thanks for your feedback. I, too, am bracing for the Palin patriot propaganda push to hijack the 9/11 anniversary date. These people have no shame.

@Viola-Alex---

Thanks for the reminder about those examples of "real heroes" that are helping us push back in the fight for the soul of our country. When one of us gets tired and winded, someone else has to step up and relieve them so they can re-charge their batteries.

@NancyDrewed,

Oh, to be a fly on the wall. A close friend is in a similar position in a research installation which I won't name, and he spends about 40% of his time in the Pentagon.

Of course we cannot talk shop about any of the current happenings, but whenever anything is de-classified, especially in tech transfer, it's fair game. By that point, it has already been copied by the Chinese or Russians (or both) and sold to Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, et al after being modified by the Israeli security companies to allow them to counter the technology's influence to the Arab countries.

jeff

9/10/2011 00:20:30

@V ictoria

Thanks for the thumbs up. I love to read...usually non-fiction, but not averse to anything other than maybe cookbooks on healthy, low-cal eating. I want to learn something, laugh, or be entertained; not feel guilty for eating something that tastes good.

Looks like you've written quite a few. Which one would be the best to start with? Remember I'm a novice in your genre. I'll go with your recommendation and if I can get it on kindle, I'll start on it tonight after college football games are over.

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 00:23:50

It's hard to imagine that SP could be offered the VP slot again. Although isn't Steve Schmidt the campaign manager for Romney? Imagine her threatening Romney with her own faked pregnancy - claiming Schmidt knew... I've got to think that the dirt goes both ways.

jeff

9/10/2011 00:38:42

@Tom

It Can't Happen Here was one of the books on my son's AP English reading list last summer, and he and I both read it. It is so eerie recognize some of the same types of populist discourse today that people have "fallen for" throughout history.

Reckon how much of a rebate from our country's "God-given natural resources" (or whatever) would result in a landslide and a mandate for a politico with less than virtuous intentions? If people are hurting enough, it might not take as much as we would imagine.

NSG

9/10/2011 00:40:14

@Jeff, thanks for your take on Reagan/Bush. I was still a teenager then but already a political junkie, and I remember being amazed at the time that Ronnie brought on Bush after "voodoo economics."

I share the educated spider-sense that there are puppet-masters, and recent events, i.e., the Koch Bros tapes, are more puzzle pieces falling into place.

I lived in Texas from the early 80s- 2004. GW Bush was always "around," showing up in the news as the 2nd-then-1st Son, part owner of the Rangers, but never with any hint of his own ambition or substantive interests. (Compare with any number of visible pols' kids -- Kerry & Gore's daughters, e.g., who've done documentaries, RFK's kids -- issues have always been central to their lives & identities. NEVER with Shrub.) And then, all of a sudden, there were these smoke signals that he was being groomed for Guv, with an almost instantaneous "Aha!" that he was being groomed for a White House bid.

Which immediately drove the question: WHO is grooming him? WHO is behind all this? Sure, Barbara has always pushed her kids, but that wasn't an adequate explanation. Then the PNAC document came out, and Cheney brought in as "#2" -- parallel to Ronnie/GHWB, as you describe, I now see more clearly.

So two thoughts in response.

1. This all illustrates the need for vigilance at the local level. When we have local critical thinkers documenting the records and activities of the Ws, Palins, Bachmanns, etc., we can poke holes in it. Had these resources existed in Texas better in the mid-90s, maybe there would have been enough record out to avert THAT disaster. I think the local blog covering my current cuh-razy rep, DumpBachmann.com, has been valuable in spoonfeeding the toothless MSM enough info to discredit her, much as the current Palin sites are doing the same to speed her demise.

2. Why Palin-dogging matters? She/her ascent may be the weakest thread yet in the puppet-masters' tangled web. If this amazing community of thinkers, writers & researchers can help unravel the SP mess, it may expose the bigger story and open the sheeple's eyes to how badly they've been conned in voting & acting against their own interests.

Thanks, all, for yet another terrific discussion, and esp to Laura for shepherding it in such an enlightened and respectful way.

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 01:14:19

@Jeff - thanks for your interest! For those who are not that familiar with Greek mythology, I recommend starting with Jocasta: The Mother-Wife of Oedipus (another attractive woman who had problems caused by a pregnancy and some awkward secrets). The other novels (Children of Tantalus, The Road to Thebes, and Arrows of Artemis) make a trilogy which uncover a mass murder that has gone unnoticed for the last 3 millennia (another massive cover up, by the way). But if you're not sure, start with Jocasta - the easiest way to get it is on the kindle, although it is available in hard copy.

Also available in Greek ... for those who want more info, click on my name or go to www.tapestryofbronze.com, where there are maps and a pronunciation guide and a poetry contest...

jeff

9/10/2011 01:19:36

@V ictoria,

I think you're right. As it stands today, I don't really see SP getting in for a serious run in the primary.

But I'd rather the media not give her a megaphone to be a cheerleader either to wail away from the sidelines throughout the primary.

She'd be a godsend if she opted to wait and do a 3rd party run, because that might even convince her of her own insignificance once she's humiliated in that setting. It would virtually guarantee re-election for the Prez.

It would probably require having Mrs Palin be incarcerated to keep her from muddyin' the water in the general election, regardless of where she is politically. Hopefully her advisers are reminding her that AZ is adding a new House Seat, and Senator Kyl is retiring, also, too. Sarah thinks she's above being a Senator or Congresswoman though.

I might have to take a yoga class to help me prep for this campaign. Deep breathing and visualization. Ommmmmm...

jeff

9/10/2011 01:29:31

@V ictoria

Just downloaded Jocasta to kindle and ready to rock n roll.

I'm going to peruse it for about 5 minutes here before I have to leave. Thanks for the recommendation.

V-A

9/10/2011 01:31:31

I learn so much from the blogs I follow, particularly the fact that I'm not alone in wanting to know the truth, no matter how horrible it may be. Our society is so drugged by its food, drugs, technology, spending. . . that's why no one cares. Watch how people care for their children now and you'll see how sedated we are trained to be.

Two books I've recommended before, I'll do again. Because! I learned about them in blog comments - FAMILY OF SECRETS by Russ Baker, a WSJ/NYT journalist who wanted to write about the Bushs and ended up learning more than he was comfortable with, including evidence that Bush SR was a CIA operative from the 1940's, most certainly involved in JFK's assassination, and that Bob Woodward was a CIA plant to write up the leak that would discredit Nixon who had gone off game plan. (Also implying that Reagan was the greatest puppet-head of all.)

And THE BIG RICH - about the rise of the modern conservative movement out of the mega-oil rich men of Texas in the 1930's. From that book I learned that Dwight Eisenhower was put in office by the oil rich-- but when he got there, did his own thing. The lesson? Generals are used to being their own bosses. Politicians are not.

@KMR - thanks for adding to my conspiracy knowledge with the 911 site. I wish it were easier to negotiate and understand what their suspicions are-- but clearly nothing is as it seems.

@ to those above who mentioned BEAUTY and doing small-scale things to stay engaged with goodness. Thank you from my ravaged heart.

@to all who agree that bringing Palin down may be the one silver spike (is that what destroys vampires?) we can drive

@Jeff and Laura for helping me feel less alone in the darkness.

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 01:46:26

@Jeff - thank you so much. May Jocasta provide you with some much needed escapism!

@V-A - this community helps me too. I've had a tough year physically, after a ski accident last winter. (I'm much better now, thanks, but there were months of pain and I still have physical therapy.)

Deep breathing. A good idea.

Conscious at last!

9/10/2011 01:56:46

I am so glad that the conversation has moved in this direction. It feels so good to know that many others, across the nation, have doubts about the 9/11 scenario. Early on, when I knew in my gut that this was a false flag operation, I felt very isolated and frightened. Of course, being close to Ground Zero didn't help matters.

As I struggled to grasp these events (reading many of the books mentioned above and others), I understood, more and more why equanimity was so essential. We can get overwhelmed. Yes, there are forces well beyond our control-- there always have been. But as I scraped and crawled out of the hole of fear, I came to a profound realization. These earth shattering events actually don't have to define our day to day life. Our personal relationships, economic challenges, contact with nature, etc., go on. In these areas we have some control. We can create inner peace and healing, even as the turmoil surrounds us.

Palin brings to us a terrific exercise in discernment. As folks began to see what was REALLY going on with babygate, etc, dormant brain cells were activated!
A new community was formed and the possibilities for transformative, democratic online journalism expanded tenfold.

Thank you Laura, this blog is important in so many ways. Cheers to you all!

FEDUP!!!

9/10/2011 03:16:28

The pictures of the 1/2 Marathon are up: http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewAlbum.asp?AID=6440285

Looks like someone resembling the person wearing the outfit she supposedly wore is pictured in #34 - from behind. That person does not show up in any other of the 243 pictures up so far...

jeff

9/10/2011 03:21:02

@FrostyAK

re your 16:20 comment...

I'm going to go out on a limb here with you, but only if we can agree that our recognizing a bullshit story and calling it a bullshit story is not the same as being a tin-foil-hat-wearing nut job.

It's not a THEORY that there are significant holes in the story; it's a fact. And it's wrong that the burden is placed on the thinking persons in this country to develop a more likely narrative for what happened 10 years ago, while the MSM will only ridicule those with the courage to trust their own senses acknowledge when somethings amiss.

I personally do not know all of the pieces to the puzzle and which ones go where. But I am not a fool who can be convinced that PNAC and the players behind it are in no way involved in the steps that were taken immediately following 9/11. PNAC's stated goal of increasing the US's global leadership along--- with the need for a "new Hiroshima" to accelerate the transformation into this new global hierarchy --- these give me the chills. The hubris of the neocons to actually pull off everything they did AFTER 9/11 is enough to make them criminals. I don't need any theories to see what has been done to our country. I can't say that they planned and executed that plan in the events of 9/11. But what I can say unequivocally, is that PNAC had developed a plan, just in case the opportunity was available, and they executed the plan that has our country in the ditch.

I'll let someone else go beyond that to make accusations. Unfortunately, the accusations will not be made by a prosecuting attorney with these assholes under oath and their asses on the line. From Kristol to Cheney to Pearle to Wolfowitz to Bush to Rumsfeld to Libby to Kagan--- any of 'em, all of 'em--- and several others I can't think of at this moment without researching.

While I'm ranting, and I guess this would be called a conspiracy theory also, too by the chicken-shit media, but anyway, does anyone else remember Rummie's little press conference on September 10, 2001? The one where he hitched up his little man-pants and made big promises about how HE was going to transform the military into a lean, mean fighting machine? This was the same press conference where he announced that, oh, by the way, the US has over $1 TRILLION in assets that cannot be traced to their whereabouts.

But let ol' Rummie fix it, okay? Yeah, that happened, didn't it?

Hell, no. We never heard one more word uttered about the missing ONE TRILLION dollars in assets. I guess it would be called a conspiracy theory if someone dared to ask what happened to the assets. Were they sold off the books to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or any other country starved for our military technology at the time? Was this allowance made in advance to transfer funds into the "black-ops" budget that none of our elected officials ever see so they sure as hell can't audit it? Well, it wasn't in Rummie's book, and it wasn't in W's book. Anyone want to bet whether or not it's in Darth Vader's book? Someone let me know please if it is so I can apologize to these true patriots, these American heroes... Hell, it's only a trillion dollars missing. I'll bet they fired the accountants or analysts who added the figures and presented the report. But they sure as hell didn't transform the military. They sent them off to another segment of our never-ending war to serve as the ATM for the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower tried to give us a tip about on the way out of office...50 years ago.

The only one who paid attention to his warning was JFK and, well, as Mistah Charley so aptly put it, JFK was then JFKed. Reckon some of those who followed JFK took note of his untimely outcome?

Sorry to constantly rant here and for hogging the comments on the post, but I guess my concern for the situation had to surface and it obviously has.

I didn't write the original email to Laura because of the timing with regard to the 10 yr anniversary for 9/11. But here we are, and I hope that I will always have the energy and determination to try to make wrongs right, and to prevent them when I can. I sense that there are others who are like-minded, and that gives me a real sense of hope.

Please look past my typos and misspelled words and all of my other editing oversights. Each time I look back, I'm laughing at my stupid errors, so feel free to join me in doing so. :)

Thanks for input and ideas for further reading. I appreciate all of you.

9/10/2011 03:34:50

Ok - just check out how large the shadows are at the finish of the Storm Lake Race (in particular look at the shadow of the race official)
http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=6440285&IID=253860347&INUM=34&ICT=263&IPP=16

and then look at the shadow of the man in the photo when Sarah "finished the race" http://www.joemcginniss.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2755_palin.jpg

I call BS

SunnyVee

9/10/2011 03:38:06

Wow. Great blog, again this week !

Things have quickly evolved to where I cannot contribute much...but I agree with what most are expressing here, and very much appreciate this community.

Thanks again, Laura, and to so many of those who comment here.

Laura Novak link

9/10/2011 03:40:52

Okay, Internet out for hours. At least an hour on the phone with the provider...all the while trying to figure out yet again where exactly the skunk is living, and stinking, under the house. More digging today (skunk, not Sarah) and a trip to the modem store. Fun times were had by all!

@Jeff, thank you again for your great post. You've provided us with a great conversation that this incredible community of readers has added to. Drive through McDonalds more often!

@LitBrit fascinating connection to 238. I also, too assumed it was the time, but don't personally recall that posting. But your theory is intriguing.

@Mrs. Ghunka, join the club. I can't articulate half of what the folks here do, but I love how you write and what you say. Keep on saying it!

@GrannyJ Thank you for reading my book!! I can't tell you how much that means to hear you say you miss Clari. I loved her too and missed her when Finding Clarity was finished. I'd love to hear more about the words that affected you. Thank you SO very much for buying and enjoying my novel. I hope you also saw the connections to our merry band of investigators here and the way we are trying to uncover hidden misdeeds. Thank you again!!!

Rationalist

9/10/2011 04:11:09

yeah, 2:38 is the time Anon first posted. She/he never called him/herself that. It just became the name people started using.

Rationalist

9/10/2011 04:24:31

there are three pictures of her crossing the finish line 298-299 plus the one (#34) that FEDUP!!! refers to above that shows her from the back. In the finish line pix, it's clear there are people around.

I don't know, guys. Looks legit to me.

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 04:30:06

@Laura - I can't help but think that the skunk that is bothering you is a wonderful metaphor for some of the problems plaguing our society.

Good luck...

Bill in Baltimore

9/10/2011 04:39:14

Laura,this community is awesome.I visit a couple times a day.I know the truth about SP will be revealed. And I'll hear about here or on IM. Thanks,and Gryphen,you're awesome also.

NSG

9/10/2011 04:54:13

@JJ, re the finish line shadows. In image #227, the shadows seem comparable to the SP pic you linked to at Joe McG's, and the guy welcoming the finishers, in a grey sweatshirt, black pants, baldish spot on his head, appears to be the same guy in SP's "finish."

Hope this goes to #227...
http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=6440285&IID=253859165&INUM=1&ICT=310&IPP=16

I'm one who thinks this whole thing is odd and suspicious, but I'm leaning to her having been at the start & finish lines to fit with her 1:45 time. HOW that happened is still a big question mark in my mind, however.

Another couple of observations, having clicked thru the 310-pic series.

- The initial hinky photo that looks photoshopped must have been at the start because in the full series, all the runners are very spaced out throughout most of the race.

- Few runners so obviously have moisture on their clothes. Not saying they're NOT sweating, but SP is the only one who sweated in that particular obvious pattern. Either others are all-over wet, leaving no obvious wet/dry spots, or it's the fabric (another oddity, but others seem to be wearing T-shirts, likely cotton). Ex, check out dude in #252 -- he appears to be wet all up & down his front. (Blue Nike shirt, likely wicking vs cotton.) Dude in #289-91, wearing grey T sim to SP's, seems wet almost all over, with dry spots along the bottom hem & cuffs.

- She's in #297-99 in this series, consistent with other finish line pics. Weird wet marks and all. There are others around, and there may be another runner coming behind her in a red shirt. IMO, dispels theory that she & Tawd came back for a late photo by their little ol' selves.

More info always good! Thanks for passing along the link...

V-A

9/10/2011 05:00:17

@Victoria and Everybody

In all my English major life, I've never written or spoken the word "thrice." Have you?

Just curious. Because that's the word that still haunts me from Anon238. And for some reason, it will always be the word that seduces me to believe.

'The only saving grace for me is that I know my contempt for you is out measured only by your contempt for yourself. Twenty years old, "engaged" twice, pregnant four times, a mother thrice over and a miscarriage. How ARE you going to unveil your youngest? You can't keep him hidden in that LA condo forever. Sooner or later Tripp is going to say "my brother" to the wrong person.'

Ivyfree

9/10/2011 05:11:00

"In all my English major life, I've never written or spoken the word "thrice." Have you?"

I think I used it once, playing Scrabble. IRL? Nope, never. I don't think I've ever before heard someone use it in actual communications. It's the kind of word you find in old fairy tales.

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 05:17:14

@Viola - I have certainly written "thrice" before but I hardly ever say it (but I don't get to speak in English much these days). Why has it convinced you - and of what?

FrostyAK

9/10/2011 05:18:12

I'm going to echo the sentiments of many here. It is good to know we aren't standing alone in our painfully slow search for truth. So many of the comments here have brought up other lies 'they' thought were buried.

Truth seems to be about all we have left. When life gets me down, I go out and commune with nature. Nature never lies, though it may camouflage true meanings unless one is extremely observant.

As predicted, NBC has already run a tear-jerker "documentary" about the survivors of 9/11. And yes, I cried - but only because of the hypocrisy of the format. Where are the stories about those who were there as rescuers who have since sickened (and many have died) by the buildings collapsing? And the non-attention the government has paid to them? They have had to fight for every iota of medical care.

Such things often become declassified 50 years after the fact, when no one who was there is still alive or cares. That is why so many government black ops both in country and around the world can be undertaken with impunity.

Thanks Laura, for 3 things. Printing essays such as Jeff's. Allowing discussion of subject often taboo. And finally for drawing such an intelligent audience and group of commenters.

Ottoline

9/10/2011 05:53:47

Nancydrewed: "Palin was a much more useful puppet than anyone could have foreseen. But the "game" has been permanently altered. I doubt the TP would have taken off as it did without her entry into the "arena". "

I've thought that ever since Murdoch gave her the $7M? advance for her book. He took a chance to see what, if anything, she could do to "energize the base," and she did just great! To the detriment of the people's side of all the issues discussed here.

Great post, Jeff! Jeff: could you offer your thoughts about what we as bloggers could do to help the BanyGateHoax get uncovered? In spite of what now seems so clearly to be a high-level MSM blackout. I guess the next step is to wait a few days until McG and "Fred" have their books out, and the documentary gets digested. But at some point I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I'm astonished how almost every single point in this discussion fits with my own so-far fairly unformed thinking. I think some things will remain unknowable -- to folks like us, anyway. So I've never done much reading about 9/11. The JFK aftermath I've read a lot about, and my conclusion is that were so many standing in line to kill JFK that we will never know: CIA, LBJ, Onassis, Cubans, Mafia, other unrequited allies of old Joe who helped wing JFK's election who got jilted later (like Frank Sinatra, although of course I do not suspect him!) -- and of course this loose (or maybe tighter than we realize) alliance of the uber wealthy.

Re" JFK's death I bet Jackie eventually knew, or at least knew all the good and credible gossip about it. Not necessarily at the time she made the audiotapes that are coming out in 10 minutes, but over the subsequent years. And her response was to stay firmly in the camp of creating beauty in her own life in every possible way. Just what our several commenters above say.

Thank you, all, for being there.

Ottoline

9/10/2011 06:01:03

Re anon238: My main reservation about this individual is we haven't gotten any useful info yet. I can't see the motive of "pissing off" SP as being real amidst these sad and important issues. I'm eager to hear more, but I'm reminded that it could just as well be me posting these comments.

DebinOH

9/10/2011 06:35:52

Wow, another fascinating post! The following comments are very interesting to read also, too. You are all so smart!

I am so glad you stared this blog Laura. I love all of the blogs but yours really adds something that we needed all along. Bravo;)

Laura Novak link

9/10/2011 06:42:04

Thanks, DebinOh. I'm always glad to see you here. You ALL make these conversations what they are.

Okay, I'm back. Temporarily. We're at DefCon Five at the Novak house. The little F'kers have burrowed all the way under the foundation. The place reeks. We've got enough cement mixed up to make the place look like a bunker by the time we're through.

My rant for the day. Back to the dirty work (skunks.) You guys keep up the dirty work of discussing the conspiracies.

DebinOH

9/10/2011 06:42:51

Ottoline, I agree with you about 2:38. Maybe I read too many mystery books but I kind of think we are getting punked. This may not make anyone happy but I am just not sold yet.

I just keep getting images of SP writing them (with help obviously) and laughing hysterically that she has everyone hanging on her every word (OK, I know I am cynical I just can't help it).

Allie

9/10/2011 06:50:20

Great conversation; thanks jeff, and thanks Laura for recognizing its potential.

I am tired and I need to get some sleep, so I cannot express myself as I would wish to do right now.

Before I crash, a few words. I have talked about drivers before, a concept I apply to my analyses of centers and people of power. Here is one for your consideration. Ever wonder how our technology ends up in nefarious hands? Here's the pathway I have observed: US to Israel, Israel to China, China to Iran and whatever other countries might want it. So why doesn't American pressure against this work? Five permanent members of the UN Security Council, which requires unanimous agreement -- US, England, France, Russia and China. We apply pressure that China doesn't welcome, China refuses to cooperate at the UN. Easy as pie.

In spite of this, I refuse to accept I am powerless. I may be delusional, but there's gotta be a way and I am going to find it.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/10/2011 07:00:55

This a little OT but @FrostyAK brought it up. I, too. watched the NBC special last night and I can't remember the last time I was as disgusted with a program format as I was with this one. NBC decided that the perfect sponsor for this show was Macy's - who proceeded to follow each devastating segment with loud music and phony, upbeat, bouncing models prancing around attempting to sell their wares. It was jarring and one of the most disrespectful programing choices I have ever seen. I hope NBC is being pilloried for it this morning. Not wanting to waste my breath , I will just simply go back to not watching network TV.

9/10/2011 07:02:01

@NSG - yes, I jumped the gun. You are right.

What about the white streak on her right knee in the shot from the beginning of the race?http://www.joemcginniss.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/6a00d8341c630a53ef014e8b421f15970d-600wi.jpg

I don't see it in photos 416 & 430, though I do see one on her left leg.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/10/2011 07:25:54

ProPublica, a site I trust and respect, has a compilation of the best articles on 9/11 on their blog. It looks like it contains some damning titles and I look forward to digging into it.

"We’ve gathered the seminal stories of the years after Sept. 11, the ones that reveal the reality about the attackers and how our government changed in the post-9/11 era."

http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/the-best-most-damning-reporting-of-the-9-11-era

What is covered:

The Roots of 9/11

Consequences at home (Bush authorizing US wiretapping)

Torture and Abuse

CIA ‘Black Sites’ and Gitmo

Blunders in Iraq

Phyllis

9/10/2011 07:47:00

Laura
My mother once had a skunk under the floor problem.
An older gentleman who was a neighbor told her to go buy several boxes of mothballs and throw them by the handful up under the house.
That solved the problem and also solved the problem of cats getting under the house during their cat fights.

Ottoline

9/10/2011 08:09:42

Laura -- While you are throwing mothballs under your house, toss in a bunch of Bounce sheets. It has to be original Bounce, not new and improved. I've heard bugs and rats/mice are repelled because of one of its chemicals, and I had good luck with it myself.

mxm

9/10/2011 08:28:43

Laura, a little easier than mothballs -

Wear gloves and goggles/glasses, roll up old cotton gym socks into tight balls, and wet each with ammonia, doesn't need to be dripping - after dark go out and throw the ammonia balls around where you suspect the skunk may be or near openings where they could be entering/exiting.

After dark is when they are out of there nests and you don't have to get too close to throw the rolled up socks. Mothballs would probably work too, but they are harder to get in the right spot.

Found the remedy on the internet for my neighbor a few years back. A mother skunk and babies were under their deck and sprayed their poor dog 2-3 times in one week. The skunk family leaves after dark to forage and feed, then will relocate peacefully once their home is fouled by the ammonia.

Good luck.

9/10/2011 08:38:26

The race photo numbers have changed as more photos have been added through the day, but, having clicked through ~450 of them, I think the photos prove that she started the 5K race, and stayed with the group long enough to be in a mid-race shot close to the same black-shirt/red-shorts "bunny hop" woman in the shot Todd supposedly took. But NONE of the people who are close to her in these early shots can be seen at the half-marathon finish, where there were few enough racers for them all to have individual shots. And the race course is almost designed for cheating, especially with both races starting at the same time: all she would have had to do, having been careful to stay incognito at the beginning, is step off the course on the way out or back on the flat 5K loop and wait for an opportune moment to join the last mile of the half-marathon.
My only question is, is she such an old hand at this kind of scam that she personally kept her eye open for a good cheatable course...or is it possible that somebody set her up to be exposed as a fraud?

FEDUP!!!

9/10/2011 08:52:12

O/T, but since ottoline brought it up re. Bounce sheets... They are GREAT to get bugs off your car! I was in FLA earlier this year for the final launch of space shuttle Endeavour, and it was the time of the 'Lovebugs' (UGH!!!!). Someone told me to wet a Bounce sheet and wipe off the bugs - IT WORKED LIKE A CHARM - NO elbow grease needed! :)

FEDUP!!!

9/10/2011 08:57:53

jk: I have not checked the pics since 243 or so were up earlier today, but I wanted to turn your attention to (at that time) picture #80 (+- a couple of #s)or so.
If you check closely, there is someone in the background (not 'Sarah Heath') that jumps in at that point in time.
Easy for 'Sarah Heath' to jump out and then jump in at a later point in time, making sure there is nobody around taking pictures...
Also, too, I seem to remember one picture early on, where you see quite a few runners going one way, but off to the left, there were quite a few (walkers?) going the other way...

AKPetMom

9/10/2011 09:10:11

Skunks, sorry you have to go thru that. I haven't thought about skunks since I moved from VA 21 years ago. On a happy note, my friends captured skunks and had their scent glands removed and they made great pets; they even used a litter box. They basically feed on slugs and leftover garden detritus. In the winter they eat rabbit food and/or dog/cat food. They are really quite cute, when they are not fouling your home :-)

Good luck with the skunks. I hope they are removed to the wild instead of being killed. Living in Harmony with Nature can be tough sometimes but consider yourself somewhat lucky that there is still some nature hanging around such an urban environment.

Almamel

9/10/2011 09:19:01

Laura, I investigated this deodorizer once but never bought it. The testimonials speak highly of its effects on skunk odor.

http://www.biocidesystems.com/

curiouser

9/10/2011 10:10:10

Laura - So sorry about your skunks. Bowls of coffee grounds can do the trick of clearing up the skunk smell inside your house and leaves a wonderful aroma...if you like coffee.

Thanks to everyone for the fascinating discussion. I spent some time today looking at recommended sites. The 9/11 stuff is too upsetting. I definitely have difficulty buying off on the official version but think it's equally important to question the conspiracy theories. Some of them don't make sense to me either. I'd like to see some type of forum where 9/11 Commission Report proponents have a conversation with conspiracy theorists. The public deserves to know the truth no matter how ugly it might be.

Laura Novak link

9/10/2011 11:06:40

Thank you everyone for your helpful hints. I imagine they do make adorable pets. They are gorgeous animals. Unfortunately they stink to high heaven when threatened.

I hope to go back and read the links people have provided here. SO much great information to ponder. I will add only this: The Oliver Stone movie on JFK was so believable. It all made sense to me. And as with all things Sarah Palin, I believe anything is possible. Absolutely anything. And if there is money or power to be gained, then make that a double-anything.

Laura Novak link

9/10/2011 11:08:55

P.S. From now on, no one is allowed to apologize for their typos or word mistakes. It's forbidden. We all type fast, we've all got a lot on our minds and we can all recognize when one of us has simply misspelled a word or used the wrong homonym.

Okay? Group shake on it. No worries about mistakes. No apologies allowed. Pass it on.
:-)

HersheyKiss

9/10/2011 12:06:07

This is a facebook comment about the race

Cathy Otto Sarah was right next to me when she started, I remember her trying to get her long sleeve shirt off (it was caught on her safety pins of her bib! Didn't know it was her though!!

9/10/2011 12:22:59

Cathy Otto is a 49-year old woman who ran (walked) the 5K in 55:58.85
http://stormlakerunningclub.com/SL5-k2011.pdf

Can someone PLEASE nail Palin to the cross for this one?

(No I'm not obsessed, really I'm not. Just temporarily bored.)

jeff

9/10/2011 12:23:57

@Laura,

Sorry to hear about the skunk dilemma. I only have one experience with a skunk, well, actually it was my dog who chased a skunk one night when we were visiting in the country and he got sprayed. It turned out to be one of those experiences that we could smile about only after it was long over. Our poor pup was so miserable.

I hope that y'all get through it soon and that some of the ideas here from your readers are helpful in getting the skunk family to relocate.

KatieAnnieOakley

9/10/2011 13:59:06

KatieAnnieOakley

9/10/2011 14:02:43

OK, that was weird above... I didn't push submit!

ANYWAY... one thing CAN be worse than a live skunk in your crawlspace... and that would be a dead skunk in your crawlspace (or in our case 5 springs ago, a dead skunk under our large back deck...).

We couldn't use our deck / back yard AT ALL the entire spring / most of summer.

DiOR

9/10/2011 14:15:40

She's back!

From IM:

Anonymous said...

Hello party people. Wanted to drop in one last time before I get home as I noticed some of you have worried I'd been "chased off", "intimidated", and so on. If you recall I mentioned in my last post I really wanted to concentrate on visiting with the friends and family I came to see on the last leg of my trip and therefore did not think I'd be posting again until I got home. But I decided to post this one last time before getting home since I have some spare time before a dinner out and I wanted to share what little I knew about the "run" as well as a few other things I inadvertently neglected to mention in my last comment.

There are usually dozens of emails a day flying back and forth from within the small circle of Sarah, Todd, and the remaining staff/handlers/hangers-on. More if Sarah is in the news on a given day, less on the rare occasions the lying sack can keep her yap-trap shut for any length of time.
The person within this circle who discloses things to me stated (last weekend) that Sarah's handheld was going to blow up--THAT many emails were zipping back and forth.

DiOR

9/10/2011 14:16:43

Continued...

I unfortunately cannot say I saw or heard any statements which directly implicate Sarah as having not run at all. However, early in the weekend there was an exchange between Todd and one of the "circle" (yes, it feels lame to say that; I simply can't think of a better way to describe it) whereupon Todd was instructing them to find someone who would go "on the record" and say they ran with Sarah.

Now all we can gain from that DIRECTLY is the fact Todd realized people might find it difficult to accept that the same woman who was nodding, glassy eyed, and slow moving at the C4P event somehow transformed into a fitness maven less than twelve hours later...able to not only run the race but to complete THIRTEEN MILES in barely two hours.

I'm venturing off into the land of "just my opinion" here, but I think this hour and forty-five minute time is classic Palin Spin...they embellish past the point of believability. They want to counteract the claims of drug use and poor health...so not only will she run the race, she'll have a better time than the men and women in their twenties!

I'm not saying she did run or didn't run...but I do know if she had run the whole race (and male no mistake--I do NOT believe it was physically possible for her to complete such a feat) people would have recognized her and there would be a ton of photos from the sidelines and not just questionable photos from the start and finish.

DiOR

9/10/2011 14:17:38

Continued...

I stand by my statements that Sarah is alarmingly unhealthy. Her hair is falling out, her skin is sallow, she isn't eating except for binges after days of surviving on coffee and tic tacs. I just do not believe it's possible someone in this shape would have the physical stamina to run such a distance.

So there's my two cents on the run.

This is a recent issue--Sarah and Bristol had a blowout on the phone last week...Bristol was telling Sarah her "reality" show might be scrapped before one episode was even aired. (Bristol is SO boring and is testing horribly with preview audiences) Sarah told her to do "whatever it takes" to turn the tide and make the producers and the network believe she could do better. Sarah said they absolutely could not have another "failure" from within the Palin family.

This is something I wanted to mention before, something that might have supporting evidence waiting to be located. When Sarah was initially on that meteoric crest of media exposure, she was on the cover of multiple weekly magazines. There was one magazine which put Sarah on the cover and multiple family photos were used in the story. One of Sarah's people sent an email to the editor requesting the removal of one photo, saying they hadn't meant to send it. The photo was from a shoot featuring Sarah, Todd, Piper, and Trig. The only difference between the photo which was requested to be pulled from the article and the other photos from the same shoot? Trig's ears were visible in the pulled photo. I was not around for this and only heard about it well after the fact...but I heard Sarah absolutely freaked out when it was realized this photo would possibly be published in a major weekly. There was also an email sent to the same five people who seem to be "in on it" during the first week of May 2008 by Sarah from her blackberry. In it she says if any of the recipients of the message see photos of Trig being taken, make sure he has a blanket or hat to cover his "ear". She said ear, singular and not earS, plural.

It could be argued the reason for this request as well as the freak-out over the inclusion of an "ear picture" in a magazine was simply that she was vain and didn't want everyone to see this "imperfection". But given how much Sarah loves to play victim, I think this shows that she knew there would be a point in the near future where people might notice the distinct difference in this compromised ear and the perfect ear(s) on the baby presented as Trig at the convention. This is the strongest indication I see of a "baby swap".

DiOR

9/10/2011 14:18:34

And finally...

Lastly, I want to clarify something I thought I made clear but which I apparently did not.
When I say "the proof is in the emails", I did not mean the emails which were released. I was referring to the emails which were NOT released. These emails, if they ever see the light of day...will absolutely ruin Sarah. No maybe, possibly, probably...but DEFINITELY.

I believe the two most likely sources for this material to ever come from are Todd Palin (selling them after an acrimonious divorce proceeding, possibly) and a person who has managed to stay below the radar in regard to the pregnancy rumors...and that is Sean Parnell. I'm not sure what situation might prompt Parnell to speak up. But for whatever reason, he was in the loop.

Frank Bailey, while not included on many emails, also knows most everything about the pregnancy ruse. But because his book would be considered fraudulent with the publication of this information, I do not think he will be the one to tell the truth.

That's all for now. Please do not worry I've been "chased off" should you not hear from me for a time. As I have mentioned, this is the last leg of my trip and my focus has been elsewhere.

I encourage all of you to continue questioning EVERYTHING related to Sarah Palin. Whether it's a half marathon or a "bus tour"...keep digging. Nearly everything she says or does contains some element of spin, angle, or flat out lie. Eventually someone will dig deep enough to find THE piece of information or THE photograph which takes her down.

On the eve of this somber date, we all see what can result from one person who lies and creates fear and paranoia...they can gain enough followers to do unprecedented damage. Sarah Palin is large considered a joke. 85% of Americans think she is like a mosquito buzzing around--annoying but packing only enough power for a little bite.
In 2000, only 7% of people asked thought bin Laden was a true danger. Most probably viewed him...like most people view Sarah--a loudmouthed annoyance but with such a small number of "true believers", basically harmless.

Now people know the truth; bin Laden was actually a cobra laying in wait. Sarah has been made into a puppet, but make no mistake the people pulling the strings are molding her into a venomous creature with deadly accuracy and strikeforce.

Jesse is correct in asserting some people want Sarah's will she, won't she mystique to continue on indefinitely. These people are as dangerous as Sarah herself is.

Keep digging. Keep questioning.

When I return home, I will be sharing all I know with Jesse. I want to do my part, just as he does his part. We all need to unite and not stop until Sarah Palin the threat is neutralized. I don't care if she ends up selling Amway or reading books on tape for self-punishers to listen to. As long as she isn't on our airwaves, saying treasonously awful things about our president and stoking fear in the hearts and minds of American citizens.

Hear that, Sarah? I'm about more than just pissing you off, now. Soon everyone will know the truth about your fake pregnancy, your nonexistent college degree, and the endless well of lies and misdeeds you left in your wake as governor.

jame

9/10/2011 15:06:16

Great comments, everyone. This is a fantastic blog.

As for the wide-reaching power and influence of PNAC, I wonder whether, after all the pre-staged dog and pony shows by the puppet masters, PNAC's chief architect, the Jebster, will ultimately end up being the savior/rally-around, chosen candidate. Perhaps everyone else has merely been trotted out as a distraction, and to cause a collective heaviness and thought of: "anybody but him/her." And thus voila, the Jebster, either as the candidate or VP nominee. The intentions and consequences of PNAC are so far-reaching that I find it hard to believe the Bush family is ready to crawl under a rock just yet.

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 15:40:58

@Dior - thanks so much! And could you provide a link to the comment itself? The IM blog is difficult for me to navigate.

Tom link

9/10/2011 15:55:31

@DiOR

Thanks for that. I'd have been digging for days otherwise.

I'd still really like to see SP outed on the race fraud. I posted a conflicting report about SP's fitness over at oz mudflats after speaking with someone at The Skinny Raven. He says sghe's fit. I want him to be wrong but I have no reason to believe he lied. It just may be that she used to be fit though I'm sure I asked him if he'd seen her work out recently and he responded yes.

Nothing's real with those people. Isn't there someone who ran in those races with the character to come forward, even anonymously?

As to conspiracies, I've thought the JFK murder was BS since I was a high school kid and read Mark Lane's book, the first I think which questioned the single assassin theory. Lane was pretty much dismissed as a nutcase but then Lewis's 'It Can't Happen Here' never got much of a grip and he was the first American Nobel Prize winner for literature (though I don't know that he'd won it yet, 1935 i.e.) I've never liked Arlen Spector because of his 'one bullet theory' that he sold to the Warren Commission. Silly of me to hold that aginst him but I'm from Philly and Specter was DA there before moving up in the world in PA. So he was forefront in the papers for a good part of my life.

And Laura, I glad you mentioned about the typos. The apologies get annoying. 'Course I'm not very patient.

V-A

9/10/2011 15:56:20

Victoria, here you go:

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=4190158141129121771&blogID=9361564&isPopup=false&page=2

Hope that works.

hmmmm. Sean Parnell.

FEDUP!!!

9/10/2011 16:50:45

Tom: have you considered that she DOES have her minions that will do anything to make her look good? I know you said you think the guy did not have a stake in this, but... HOW DO YOU KNOW? How do you know he is not one of those smitten guys that see one thing (she is exercising), and then extrapolate from there (she is fit enough to run a 1/2 marathon)?

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 16:50:59

Thank you, V-A (my initials as well, BTW). The link works.

Glad to see that Anon238 plans to bring this more forward, rather than simply hint at things.

I really don't care whether or not she ran in a race although I think her faking it would be extremely pitiful. Besides, what about those she claimed to beat? I agree that the time is very good and if SP did that I'm surprised there's not more evidence of her running on a daily basis.

curiouser

9/10/2011 17:05:32

Very OT but baby bump related - I'm watching SNL--a repeat of the May 8, 2011 Mother's Day show with a 6-months, very noticeably pregnant Tina Fey as host. The opening monologue featured a duet with Tina and Mya Rudolph who was 7-months pregnant. The 2nd clip has lots of fake bellies.

Mya gave birth to her third child on July 3. Tina's second child was born on Aug. 10.

http://www.popeater.com/2011/05/08/tina-fey-maya-rudolph-pregnant-snl-duet/

Ginger

9/10/2011 17:41:24

Anon238's comment about an e-mail Sarah sent out to cover Trig's "ear" if anyone sees photos being taken, has me confused. Most of us know the baby Anon is referring to is Ruffles. There were only two different times we saw pictures of this child. One in the Palin kitchen where Mercede was holding him and then, the next day, at the baby shower they held for Sarah. After that, we never saw another picture of him.

I've said many times I thought that Ruffles is/was the baby of one of Mercede's girlfriends. Sarah had a cake for Levi's birthday and invited the Johnstons over because she wanted to borrow that baby. I'd say Sarah, or someone who put on that shower, saw Ruffles and how small he was (barely five-pounds), and thought Sarah could use him instead of Trig, who looked like he weighed close to eight-pounds, and did not look like the preemie he was suppose to be. A picture of her holding Ruffles, at that shower, made the cover of (US?) magazine after she was picked for the VP slot. What better proof she gave birth to a preemie?

So, that's why I'm confused. Sarah was never seen again with that child. Why would she send out an e-mail saying this?

Anon tells us to "keep digging." Well, I've been digging for over 2-1/2 years and I can't find one shred of evidence that Bristol was pregnant "again" after giving birth to Trig on April 17/18, 2008.

Can you help us out here, Anon?

Thanks...

P.S. There is an e-mail from the SOA, Benefits Div., dated May 21, 2008, addressed to Sarah, asking her for her newborn's birth certificate. Can you help with this, too?

Again, thanks...

FrostyAK

9/10/2011 17:44:28

Another OT. Local PBS is doing their fund raising shows again. Am watching the Roots of Folk Music in the 60's, an era I lived through. Yes, I was a war protester during my 4 years at (only one) college.... I guess that made me a terrorist, per $P. Those songs are as relevant today as they were 50 years ago.

Where is that kind of music today? Where are the protest songs? Where have the masses of people on the streets protesting the absurdities in this country been for the last decade? Yes, there was Wisconsin, recently. Where are young people making a statement for their futures? Against war? One voice on the street that garners media attention is worth 100,000 posts on social media.

And where are the journalists? As Bob Dylan wrote - "How many times can a man turn his head, and pretend that he just doesn't see?"

I seem to be rather nostalgic today...

V ictoria link

9/10/2011 18:00:14

@Frosty AK - there are protests. The problem is that the media chooses to ignore them. I recently watched Stone's "W" and was impressed by the millions marching against the Iraq war. And I remember watching newscasts at the time. I live outside the US and the protests were on all but the US stations.

Maybe we need to start a "citizen journalist" website. Not just national, though - international. Or maybe one already exists?

KMR

9/10/2011 20:07:27

Hey Frosty, Maybe because we grew up listening to the same songs, protest songs that actually caused us to think, we learned to question.
Unlike the kids today.
Don't get me going about their music...especially when it comes to Lady Gaga. She's a slut who sings and prances around half naked. They tell me she's inspirational because she tells the kids to not be afraid to be themselves. Hello? And that is new? BTW, I think the media is again complacent with her. They go along with whomever is backing her (just as is the case with SP).
My parents used to say the same kind of things about our music, so I try to bite my tongue ... sometimes... but not often and not in regards to Lady Gaga.

Heidi3

9/10/2011 20:37:19

@ Tom & FEDUP! - Of course I cannot state this conclusively, but I think the Skinny Raven president (Daniel Greenhalgh) is either a minion or a damn scared skinny bird, quivering in fear of the Palin mafia.

The reason I think that is because I sent him a strongly worded yet courteous email on 12-12-10 when Sarah wore that same shirt during her trip to Haiti. I do get on my kicks, and her wearing that tee shirt for a photo op amidst the starving and devastated Haitians really set me off. I suggested that he cover his ass by decrying the tone deaf actions of one idiotic, embarrassing Sarah Palin.

I never received a reply from him. That doesn't mean a lot, I know, but it left me with the feeling that he wasn't about to do anything other than cover for Sarah. I'm thinking that now may be a good time to send him another email...

KMR

9/10/2011 20:56:29

@ Ginger, I think "Ruffles" has been on People Magazine with Sarah at least twice. He looks to be that same baby, imo. His ear is covered up too.
See here:
http://tinyurl.com/3meg5gv
and here:
http://tinyurl.com/6r43h5

AC Slater, yum

9/10/2011 22:02:07

No offense but attacking Lady Gaga for what she sings about is stupid. The world could always need more people who tells others (through wide reaching media) these things.

If you wish to attack her, talking about her ripping off others' music. But really, who are we to judge her.

Destination Freedom

9/10/2011 22:08:40

Ginger, technically, we've seen ruffles three times (I refrained from using thrice, as I hate that word)

May 3, Mar 4, early June when people were in town to do that article.

However, I still strongly believe there is only one baby. And I also believe Frank Bailey when he swears that Trig is Sarah's. I just can't imagine a person putting out a book that quickly mentioned babygate and wrote it off as being a stupid, mean conspiracy. If he knows the truth, then he could have ignored Trig entirely. I mean, there's enough other info to fill a book.

If the truth comes out and people listen, I seriously doubt people are going to point fingers at all the naysayers. Most people are probably going to ignore it, while gaters and the like will breath a sigh of relief.

It's weird though. Very few people in Alaska actually question the Trig mystery. Very few people even think of Sarah Palin, save for friends, jealous types, and "obsessives."

Raven

9/10/2011 22:35:53

jk, all the racers/walkers start off together. The 5k trail is a small loop in the middle of the half marathon. It would be difficult to fake something like that. The two races follow the same trail, The 5k-ers just turn around before the others (not too long after they start) and they finish in the same area.

Raven

9/10/2011 23:04:02

About Anon now. This person has now given "info" that contradicts many things. I cannot comment on Sean Parnell and his knowledge but I know that Frank thinks Sarah was pregnant and gave birth on April 18th. Anon writes like a jealous schoolgirl whose only goal is to be a malicious nuisance. I think it's the mediainsider chick, who writes in the same fictitious manner. The Bristol comments definitely give her away for me.

About Ruffles, before you jump on the 2 babies train, place notice that Campaign trig, whom is present day Trig, has the same mouth and protruding tongue as ruffles. The hair line is the same.

Lou in London

9/10/2011 23:08:20

Ginger –
“Anon tells us to "keep digging." Well, I've been digging for over 2-1/2 years and I can't find one shred of evidence that Bristol was pregnant "again" after giving birth to Trig on April 17/18, 2008.”

I posted a link and referred to some images of a pregnant looking Bristol on the “Can’t Touch This’ Thread – as I had not seen these images before. So here they are again – I’d be interested to read what you think of these.

Someone referenced a couple of screen grabs they had made of Bristol in ‘her new AZ home’ in the Anon 238 thread.

Here’s the link
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=9361564&postID=31036946143558198

And here’s the post:

Anonymous‬ said...
Here are two screen grabs I made from that E! i interview with Bristol Palin at her home in AZ: 
Pregnant Bristol? Screen Grab #1 
Pregnant Bristol? Screen Grab #2  
She certainly appears to be, ahem, very prominent around the midsection...
8:05 AM

She looks pregnant to me and adds credibility to Anon238’s third child accusation – which I confess left my head reeling initially (it was the third child rather than the rather poetic thrice that threw me at first). And if the E! interview was in the AZ home it puts the date after DWTS.

Thoughts?

9/10/2011 23:43:45

Ginger, we see Ruffles in two photos in Bailey's book, supposedly taken in May and June of 2008. I think it was anon238 who said that Sarah was livid about his use of those photos -- someone speculated it was Bailey's insurance policy, to remind Palin of what he knows and keep her from going after him.

Raven, first, the two races started off together but were split on different sides of the road at the very beginning, with a grass strip in between. Image 2478 shows Palin starting with the 5K group; a woman who walked this race has said that Palin was just in front of her at the start. The groups did come together, but Palin is seen again not long after the start (image 2488), clearly not part of a group running an 8-min-mile pace. Second, cheating would have been the easiest thing in the world on that course! Look at the map: all she had to do was duck into the toilet near the 5K turn-around, hide out for a while, then pop back into the last mile of the half-marathon at an opportune time, i.e., a nice long gap between leading & trailing runners. It was the perfect set-up for cheating.

9/10/2011 23:57:04

Raven, you do seem determined to kick up dust today. Racegate, babygate...anything else you can debunk for us?

What Bailey claims about Trig and what he knows about Trig might well be two different things. The more I hear, the more convinced I am that his book was major CYA. MAYBE he managed to convince himself that he was "protecting innocents" with the lies, but his book suggests he's pretty darned good at rationalizing self-serving behavior.

As for Trigs, yes, I believe RNC Trig is the Trig we see today. But what exactly are you referring to when you say he has the same hairline as the photos of "Ruffles"?! Ruffles barely had hair in any of the photos of him. As for the protruding tongue, that is a common characteristic of DS. Lastly, it is possible that Ruffles and Trig were biologically related, and therefore looked alike.

As for anon238 vs MI: still more dust. Not remotely the same styles, nor the same kind of information.

bob

9/11/2011 00:29:17

i'm linking to a story on The Daily Beast about a story that Gov Perry tells about shooting a coyote about to attach his puppy. The journalist takes the story apart methodically. Why are journalists able to do this with Perry versus the many "tall tales" that Palin tell that are important to boosting her appeals? I struggle to understand.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/10/rick-perry-says-he-shot-a-coyote-while-jogging-but-where-are-witnesses.html

bob

9/11/2011 00:40:36

@JK--i totally agree about Frank Bailey's book. I bought it at an airport book shop, read it on the plane, and then gave it away afterwards so it wouldn't be in my home--something i regret becuz i want sometimes to reference it.

So basically, Bailey's story is that when Palin turned on him and exhibited the kind of dishonest and nasty behavior which he witnessed her visit upon others, he woke up to her behavior and turned on her. He didn't know that bullying people with less power was wrong before then? He didn't know spending time on Alaska's dime inflating polls was inappropriate before then? He didn't know that using the power of the state against an employee of the state, as a act of vengeance was wrong? Seriously? In my reading of this book Frank Baily was a bully until the bullying was turned on him. I don't feel sad for him that his book was leaked. I don't feel sad for him for anything. And i do think he's still holding back. I tire of people calling him a "decent man"---with the understanding that i do comprehand that decent people can be turned into bullies.

Ivyfree

9/11/2011 01:26:50

"I cannot comment on Sean Parnell and his knowledge but I know that Frank thinks Sarah was pregnant and gave birth on April 18th. "

Unless you know Frank personally and have discussed it with him, all you know is that Frank indicates he believes this, in his book. I remember he wrote he saw Sarah at the hospital that day- which makes him, apparently, a minority of one- and that he saw Bristol and "she did not give birth that day" which actually means nothing. I think he also makes a mildly disparaging remarks about people who believe rumors.

The whole thing was so carefully written that it made me think that when Babygate is exposed publicly, he'll be able to point to it and say he didn't SAY Sarah gave birth to Trig.

Balzafiar

9/11/2011 01:54:25

Anon238's new post got me to thinking again so I did a little digging around this morning for old comments and found something interesting which I hadn't seen before. It may not be new to the old hands at uncovering the truth.

From Truthdig.com:

"By Lauren, December 30, 2008 at 6:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Word on the ground in Wasilla is that this cover-up story has been falling apart because the girl they had arranged with to adopt them a baby boy has changed her mind and backed out. The Palin clan is scrambling to come up with an infant boy before this blows up and damages Sarah’s presidential ambitions."

Since I'm a little fuzzy on the dates in the timeline, what cover-up would Lauren be referring to?

Can anyone explain it for me?

mitch

9/11/2011 01:56:19

If Woodward and Bernstein brought down Nixon and Navy Seals killed Bin Laden, why can't united bloggers expose the birth hoax? Sarah Palin is mortal and she provides all the tools needed to put the truth in the public information sphere.

9/11/2011 02:15:18

Wow! This blog is amazing. I have enough reading material suggestions from the comments at this post alone to keep me busy for months. Thank you all and thank you Laura for bringing this community together.

My only addition to the discussion is that I still have a very hard time believing that the pretty and healthy looking woman in the photos at the end of the race is the same person as the nasty and haggard looking SP on Fox News the next day.

rubyslippers

9/11/2011 03:16:11

@ jeff,
No need to apologize for "hogging the comments", you are a front page guest blogger here now, and IMO the best bloggers are those who continue to interact with and respond to readers who comment on their posts.
I was also very impressed with your remarks about the PNAC/Sept. 11 "coincidence" and wondered if you would mind if quote you on my fb page. Would be happy to credit you if you want to offer any personal details (full name? website?), otherwise I would just say something like "jeff, a commenter on one of my favorite blogs said..."

Sunday

9/11/2011 03:46:41

A little levity, unintentional, from Daily News Global:

"Palin surprised the participants ran the half marathon race in Iowa because she is enrolled to use the name of the housekeeper, Sarah Heath."

Obviously not an English-as-first-language site (or they pick up English news stories, run them through some other language translator, and run them back through in English). Maiden name, indeed.

http://www.dnewsglobal.com/marathon-race-sarah-palin-housekeeper/6800.html

Laura Novak link

9/11/2011 04:00:07

Remember not to feed the trolls. Same person. Same MO. Same writing style. Same message. Using different names.

Ignore her just the same.

Thank you!

Sunday

9/11/2011 04:02:55

"Brenda McVinua was among the Storm Lakers Palin chatted with after the race. McVinua was working as a volunteer in the "chute" near the finish line, and was impressed with the former vice-presidential candidate's form. "She wasn't even breathing hard. You could tell she's an athlete. If you didn't know better you would have thought she'd just run around the block once or twice.""

http://www.stormlakepilottribune.com/story/1760728.html

KMR

9/11/2011 04:16:57

@ AC Slater,
I didn't attack Lady Gaga for what she sings, specifically, since I don't bother to listen to her. What I said was "I am told" her lyrics and music is inspiring because she tells kids to believe in themselves. That idea is not new, in my opinion. The personal growth genre has been around since before this burlesque queen was in diapers (which for all I know could have a diaper costume judging from some of her getups I've seen on the net).
What I did criticize was the lack of thought provoking lyrics in today's music, as was the case in the 60's. I did say that she prances around naked and she does do that.
(no offense back at you - we simply have a different opinion)

@ Balzafiar,
I've never seen that comment either. Good find.

@ Mitch,
Me thinks the Navy Seals/killing Bin Laden is another hoax on Americans. Here's just one of many websites that dispute that claim:
http://tinyurl.com/3z3kv

a lot of people don't like Alex Jones, but I'll leave this link as well:
http://tinyurl.com/3vxkjzv

V ictoria link

9/11/2011 04:19:08

@Sunday - that's really funny! I think the reporter is letting people read between the lines.

mary

9/11/2011 04:43:51

Anon 2:38's comment that Sean Parnell was in on the fake pregnancy emails surprised me until I remembered the email that made it through the redaction fest:

http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/21746.pdf

bob

9/11/2011 04:48:16

@ Sunday--thanks for the link on the race. It's a rich little news report.
Here's my favorite line--in addition to the ones u mentioned:

"She entered under her maiden name, Sarah Heath, and had her husband pick up her race packet, but did write her real name in small lettering on her bib racing number, allowing her to be recognized at the end of the event"

Seriously, who would do that? Weird.

Rationalist

9/11/2011 05:54:08

Let's not call each other retards here, alright?

That said, I'll put in my two cents: what exactly is the point of calling Lady GaGa a slut? An opportunist, a flash in the pan, whatever: ok.

BTW there are LOTS of great political songs out there now. The music business is fragmented, so you have to look for good music beyond the radio, but it's there.

Ivyfree

9/11/2011 06:10:21

""She entered under her maiden name, Sarah Heath, and had her husband pick up her race packet, but did write her real name in small lettering on her bib racing number, allowing her to be recognized at the end of the event"

Seriously, who would do that? Weird."

The same person who wore a McCain/Palin 08 eye shade and marked out the "McCain" part with a felt marker.

Ginger

9/11/2011 10:33:08

@KMR, Destination Freedom, Raven and jk

Re: Trig/Ruffle's Pictures

The first link KMR listed is the cover of Sarah, TRIG and Piper on People magazine. That is not Ruffles. Notice the protruding tongue. The second link, is the picture on US magazine's cover that I mentioned in my comment. That "is" Ruffles and it was the picture from the baby shower.

I don't know who that baby is in Frank's book. The ears look different from Trig's and I know it's not Ruffles.
I'm telling you, I've not seen one picture of Ruffles since the baby shower.

@Lou in London

Re: Bristol's Pregnant(cies)

For starters, let's go back to a post Gryphen did in March, 2009. It featured a picture of Bristol at the Feb., 2009 Irondog. They thought she was pregnant again or postpartum after Tripp. It was a red herring. There is a comment from me on that thread where I asked Gryphen, "If a mother can fake a pregnancy, why can't a daughter?"

One of the biggest distractions and the cause of so much wasted time, is Bristol's fluctuating weight and the fact she tries to create confusion by "stuffing something under her shirt." In some pictures, I'm sure I can see the same device Sarah wore in the museum pictures. And boy, has that ever worked. The bots fuel this fire by making comments she's pregnant all-the-time. Good grief, this girl (by her own admission) is on "birth control pills," people!

Of all the pictures of Bristol "looking pregnant," there is not one of her in the last stages of her pregnancy with Trig. That would be in March/April, 2008. There was a commenter, (Guest) over at Palingates, that said his cousin had a picture of Bristol taken at the end of March, 2008, outside somewhere, of Bristol looking very, very PG. Nothing came of this, but I was hoping.

@Balzafiar

Re: From Truthdig.com

Yes, I too saw that comment a long-time-ago. It tied in with my theory that Bristol was not pregnant a second time. However, the few of us over at Palin's Deceptions that thought this, never dreamed the Palins would come up with a baby. (Tripp?)

Of course, these comments cannot be verified and that reminds me of some comments made over at IM saying, "Tripp was a borrowed child and soon he would grow-up and start talking." How I wish I had copied these. But, like I said, there is no way to verify them.

Hope this helps...

9/11/2011 10:48:32

Ginger (or should I say Raven)..."helps"?! Not exactly.
1. Protruding tongues are common among DS babies;
2. You're honestly suggesting that the baby in Bailey's book had clearly ruffled ears...but it clearly was NOT "Ruffles"? Just how many babies are you suggesting we've seen?
3. No photos of Bristol in late stages of a Trig pregnancy?! One of the few elements of babygate that is nailed down beyond reasonable doubt is the fact that Trig was born earlier than March/Apr '08. Maybe Feb, maybe even earlier; in any case prematurely.
4. There are certainly photos of Bristol in late stages of the "DWTS" pregnancy. You know: the "God child"

I could keep going but that's enough for now.

jeff

9/11/2011 11:03:27

@Ottoline---

Re what everyone can do to expose Babygate

I wish I had a short list of what would automatically bring the Quitter to her knees, but thnk everyone is doing their best to bring attention to the absurdities that SP spoonfeeds her minions. I think having rational discussions such as these will being more attention to those who recognize that "all things Palin" might not be entirely factual and therefore warrant a second look.

The great majority of the public are completely oblivious to the level of hypocrisy that Sarah and her cultists represent. The MSM doesn't seem to think that she's a poltical player, so they treat her as an oddity, sort of like a sideshow in a county fair.

I know that waiting for new info to emerge on Sarah is like watching the grass grow sometimes. But I have seen so many "new" folks come into the community for the same reason we did 3 years ago. First you sense that something does not pass the smell test, and later you realize the scope of the hypocrisy and nonsense that Sarah tries to pass off as the truth.

As long as there are venues like Laura has provided here that are reader-friendly and "intelligent" (as Floyd has described the scene), then there is hope that truth of the corrupt nature of Sarah Palin will be revealed.

Laura, I try but I really can't thank you enough for your giving of time and creativity to this effort. Your commitment to this effort makes us all stronger. In my opinion and many others I know, you are simply the best!

Balzafiar

9/11/2011 11:24:11

The one thing that continually ticks me off is I know full well that some, perhaps many, people in Wasilla read these comments frequently, yet those who do actually know something will not come forward.

They know it can be done anonymously and the Palin Mafia cannot do a darned thing about it, but still they are silent.

Because of what Palin represents, it is my opinion that their continued silence will ultimately do a lot more harm to their welfare than if they do speak up and stop her in her tracks.

Think about it; get a bit of steel in your spine and come forward -- you can do it and no one will ever know your name.

jeff

9/11/2011 11:29:59

@rubyslippers--
Thank you for your comment.

I am truly humbled that you find value in my words. You are welcome to use any of my words or thoughts with or without attribution. They are merely my opinion and ideas which based on my reading and research of the work of many others who have gained my trust and respect. Keeping what I've learned to myself serves no purpose. It's only when I share this info does it possibly gain any value.

I certainly don't think that I have a monopoly on the truth, and I try to listen to dissenting opinions to "test" my own theories. Sometimes doing so just tends to further entrench my own opinions ( for example, most of my visits to C4P), but gaining a new perspective of the same issue from other thinking folks just broadens my own understanding, which is often fluid as new information becomes available.

That's why I really enjoy coming here, because Laura's style and personality attracts a wide audience of intelligent peeps who are generous with their perspective and yet respectful when they disagree. I can't tell you the number of instances when I am reading the post and comments at the site and feel like I have nothing that I can contribute to the conversation because I am in "listen and learn" mode. I am thankful that the trolls are not fed nor engaged here, so I don't have to wade through the "noise" that they thrive on.

Balzafiar

9/11/2011 12:08:26

Earlier I posted, quoting an old comment from another site in 2008 and asking for help in explaining the "cover-up".

Now that I've had several hours to think about it and read more old posts (all the babies makes my head spin!) I believe I have answered my own question.

In thinking about that original post I found, it tends to indicate that:

1. Ruffles was the baby that had to be returned to the birth mother, who had a change of heart on the adoption.

2. Thus, Sarah found another baby, the new and improved Trig, plus Bristol has Tripp of course as well as others she may have hidden away.

3. This could be proof that Bristol was not the birth mother of the original baby whom we knew as Ruffles -- unless the poster, Lauren, is misleading us with a red herring.

4. If Lauren didn't write a misleading post and it is true that Bristol is the real mother, then where is Ruffles? Obviously she can't admit he is hers.

5. Is Bristol in possession of Ruffles as well as Tripp? Is Ruffles living in secret in the LA condo or perhaps the backroads of Alaska with relatives? Or is he with another woman, his real birth mother?

The bottom line may be to find Ruffles. If this is already a conclusion arrived at by others, forgive me, but it is new to me.

There is more to the cover-up of course (and it may not be pretty), but this baby issue is the key part.

Balzafiar

9/11/2011 12:12:35

Oops -- a big mistake!

"4. If Lauren didn't write..."

should be...

4. If Lauren did write...

Cracklin Charlie

9/11/2011 13:12:17

Balz,

I am a little behind the game here, I have been way too busy lately to keep up. I tried to find your earlier comment, but haven't had time to do the required reading this weekend. I promise to go back and catch up.

I just wanted to ask you why do you not think it possible that the baby known as Tripp could be the ruffled ear baby from the pictures in Sarah's kitchen? To me this picture is very telling, because I think the picture of that baby with Levi represents a picture of father and son. No teenage guy would be holding a stranger's child or his girlfriend's mother's fragile, newborn baby. This picture was not supposed to be seen by us, just like the other picture of Levi in a green shirt with a different newborn child. To me, these photos are evidence of the fact that Levi believed himself to be the father of these two children.

I think adding extra babies, and snowflake babies, and borrowed babies from anywhere would have complicated the scheme so much that the hoax could never have been pulled off and kept secret. As few people as possible would have been the ideal situation for a successful hoax.

It has even been suggested that multiple surrogate mothers were used, with frozen eggs, and selection for DS. I don't have a whole lot of experience with that, but from what I have heard, or seen on television, this kind of procedure would have required several teams of highly specialized medical professionals. I just can't believe that this would have worked.

I am the most technologically challenged person in the world, so I have no ability to do this, but could someone more skillful than I get a good picture of Trigg's right ear, and enlarge it to look for evidence of surgery or scarring? There have been a few out there lately that might work. I remember seeing one from Bristol's book tour, and another with him with Bristol in a mud mask. I just don't know how to do this. All help would be appreciated.

To those wondering, I have seen a fairly recently found picture of a very pregnant Bristol, in a white t-shirt, holding a hockey puck over her pregnant abdomen. She looks very young, and is dressed for summer, not the season when baby known as Tripp was born.

Tom link

9/11/2011 13:22:16

Laura posted an admonishment to those who may have made comments perceived as rude regarding other comments (if that makes sense). I posted a response to Fed UP that may have been perceived as rude, though only mildly so, and the reason I made the comment is this.

Last week I went to both Skinny Raven stores in Anchorage and returned with information that didn't totally support the veracity of Palin's race finish and time. There was blowback from posters talking about Palin's minions, their influence and such. Yet had any one of you been with me during my conversations with the Skinny Raven people you'd know that these weren't minions of any sort. Just regualr people working their jobs and offering their opinjions.

In the post that may have been perceived as rude (and I can't imagine why but then I am from philly) I mentioned that 90some percent of AKers don't care about Palin. They aren't interested. That's my experience after having lived here off and on for about 24 months since spring 2008. FrostyAK is in Wasilla so her perception may be different. I doubt it. It's the Outsiders and the Outside media that perpetuates the Palin myth. Alaskans don't care.

I think a lot of posters are focusing on the race because it represents another case of Palin fakery, but one wioth so many less layers; one that actually seems approachable, even provable. The frusration of three years (for me anyway) of waiting for the other shoe to drop in the Trig affair is tiresome. This race, on the other hand, fresh, and seemingly within reach.

9/11/2011 13:33:28

Cracklin' Charlie, sorry, I keep asking and missing the answer: how do you account for the fact that Bristol appeared on television in early 2009 with an infant who was CLEARLY not a year old? Or the photos, including one I remember on a magazine cover, of her holding an infant Tripp (who is recognizably the same very cute critter we seem today)?

Ginger

9/11/2011 13:51:45

@jk

Who is Raven? It certainly is not me and here's my response to your comment:

1. I know DS babies have protruding tongues. The reason I said that, was because I was trying to distinguish between Ruffles (FAS?) and Trig. That was Trig on the cover of People.

2. I did not say the baby in Frank's book had ruffled ears. Looking closely, I noticed a small indentation in the middle of the outside rim. Trig does not have that on his ear.

3. There is no evidence...none what-so-ever...that Bristol had a premature baby in Jan., or Feb., 2008. Over at Palingates, Patrick stated this emphatically. He told us it came from "people high-up in Alaska" but there was no proof of it. His exact words!

Since the e-mail from the SOA, Benefits Div., came out, I've looked for a response from him but haven't seen anything and I can't read everything. If this isn't proof, I don't know what is.

At least, I have an e-mail that tells me someone in the Palin family had a baby in April and indicates Sarah sent claims to her insurance. What proof do you have Bristol had a preemie except for hearsay? There isn't any.

4. So, you think Bristol was on DWTS pregnant? These entertainers have to be insured. I'm sorry, but I just can't believe they would let her on a national TV program, dancing around, in that condition.

BTW, since I'm responding to you, I thought I'd bring up the fact that Anon238 mentioned e-mails in his/her last comment. Please notice how Anon makes sure to mention the e-mails he/she is talking about, have not been release. Anon put the word "not" in capital letters. Could the reason for this be the e-mail I keep talking about? You know, the one from the SOA, Benefits Div., that "was" released?

Just a thought...

Cracklin Charlie

9/11/2011 14:52:16

jk,

I do not believe that it is so clear that the baby that Bristol introduced on Greta's show was not almost a year old.

Just for hypothesis' sake, let's say that Tripp was born in April 08, very tiny and fragile. Is it possible that the child could have grown enough to "fit" the child introduced on GVS as Tripp? I think so. The child introduced was obviously not a newborn, and the baby that was featured in Bristol's interview with Matt Lauer a couple of months later was huge, and could easily have been one year old. In both cases the babies were drugged, and the baby in the GVS interview was dressed in a sleeper, both of which could have made him appear younger. I think the baby with Bristol on the magazine cover,(was she in graduation gown?) is quite well developed as well.

How do you account for the photos of Levi with the two babies? I think these photos are very significant, as they were some of the very few that survived a very rigorous scrubbing. I just do not think for one minute that that boy (less that 20 years old) would have spent such tender moments with the newvborn child of his on-again, off-again girlfriend's mother. And to take a photo with Sarah's child with HIS OWN father? That makes no sense. The only thing that explains these photos is that the guy thought those were his children.

Ivyfree

9/11/2011 15:02:14

"So, you think Bristol was on DWTS pregnant? These entertainers have to be insured. I'm sorry, but I just can't believe they would let her on a national TV program, dancing around, in that condition."

That is why they sign a release... so the producers et al. aren't liable.

No reason to worry about her dancing. If babies were that easy to get rid of, there'd be no need for abortions.

TV producers wouldn't give a rat's ass if Bristol was pregnant. They were buying her mother's name. They got her mother's name. They also got a visit to Wasilla (haven't you always wanted to go to Wasilla?) and her mother in the audience. That's all they cared about.

FEDUP!!!

9/11/2011 16:13:35

Check out IM... Tripp is the star of Bri$tols reality reality show? I wonder if he gets paid, and who keeps his money for him, and what Levi has to say to this...

FrostyAK

9/12/2011 06:22:11

@ Balifiar - On why the Wasillians don't come forward with that they know. This is from the IM review of the Nick Broomfield film:

"Nick wasn’t able to interview any of Sarah’s classmates, so they went to Egypt to interview the only one willing to speak. I forget the lady’s name but she said regardless of your view of Sarah, the fact that most of her classmates were members of the Assembly of God, speaking out against Sarah is like speaking out against their religion and that’s just not done."

I hadn't thought of it exactly that way before. Combine that with the $P mafia, and you get The Sounds of Silence.

Bill in Baltimore

9/12/2011 06:24:40

My head is spinning with all the pregnancies and babys' theories.Focus people,focus.

Balzafiar

9/12/2011 09:49:07

@Cracklin Charlie:

"I just wanted to ask you why do you not think it possible that the baby known as Tripp could be the ruffled ear baby from the pictures in Sarah's kitchen?"

Charlie, I'm basing it on the opinions of several doctors who people have asked about the ear condition. Their answers were that correction to the ear condition would not normally be done prior to age 4, if ever.

When I was about ten years old we had a neighbor boy, age 15, who had similar ears and they were never corrected. He still has them to this day and he's well over seventy.

Tripp's ears are normal. The current Trig's are normal. The original Trig's ears were not normal. That adds up to three babies and ties in with the old post I found.

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