Blog - Laura Novak

The Case of the Locked File – A guest post by Cyn

10/7/2011

I have worked as a social worker in my state for 15 years. In that role, I determine eligibility for financial assistance and help clients apply for SSI when appropriate. This is why I found Palinoia’s excellent post on the Palins and a possible insurance dilemma so fascinating. Her research was terrific, and I hear there is more to come. But for now, I want to add my two cents, and reveal what I think is a fascinating find, something I alluded to in an earlier comment.

Consider this: Palinoia theorized about Medicaid/Denali care, and that because of her parents’ income levels, Bristol would not have qualified for coverage as their minor child if she were pregnant.

I am thinking that had Trig not been born with Down syndrome, Palinoia would be correct. But in my experience, due to Trig’s medical condition, he was at birth categorically eligible for Medicaid. For example, any new born weighing less than 2lbs 5ozs is SDI eligible. Other medical issues, such as under developed lungs, prematurity and birth defects can also qualify a newborn for coverage.

But first, a little background on Medicaid. The program is a joint State/Federal entitlement program. Each state has a lot of discretion on how the program is administered, however, there are a few federal rules that all the states must adhere to. Federal statues and laws always supercede state statues and laws in the administration of entitlement programs.

There are a few situations where federal law mandates that the only criterion for Medicaid eligibility is the medical condition.

It would not matter who Trig’s birth mother was, his medical cost would be covered, in my experience. On the day Trig was born, a hospital social worker would have filled out an application and sent it along with the doctor’s note and diagnosis to the Social Security Administration. If there was private insurance, the hospital would bill it first and then bill Medicaid for what the private insurance did not cover.

Now here’s where it gets really interesting. In my professional life, I have access to the Social Security administration database. SSA database covers all your personal information with the exception of credit history and credit scores. While doing a non-related search, I discovered that the Palin family file (Sarah,Todd, all 5 kids, and Bristol’s son Tripp) is locked with an alert in place. This means that the file is password-protected and if someone tries to break the password an alert will be generated up the chain of command. If you get caught, you get fired.

In my experience, having a file locked is a rare occurrence. A few exceptions would be the President of the United States and his extended family. For FBI and CIA field officers and some other high-ranking federal workers, the locks are in place to protect the families.

I do not live in AK so I cannot speak in absolutes, but where I live, only the Governor and the head of DSHS can order a file locked on the state’s system. And there needs to be a very good reason for a lock to be put in place. Makes sense when you think about it: most state employees would request a lock if they could! After all, who wants their co/worker’s to have that kind of access to their private information.

But I did an experiment and looked up 30 out of 50 United States Governors. And guess what I found? I found zero locks. Zero. And I feel fairly certain that the other 19 Governors would not have a lock - only ex-governor Sarah Palin.

So what does this mean? Well, to me it means that Palin went to some trouble to lock her file and to add an alert.

There is something there she doesn’t want anyone to know. And anyone who tries to find out gets tagged and fired. That’s a serious deterrent. And a real safeguard.

319 Comments

jul

10/7/2011 15:08:46

YOWZA!

Great post...

10/7/2011 15:11:39

Wow! Cyn, thank you very much for this very informative and enlightening post.

mistah charley, ph.d.

10/7/2011 15:14:53

It sounds like those other governors ought to take steps to guard their families' privacy.

On a related point, at IM Gryphen assures us that the "Fred" book on Babygate is still in process, just a bit delayed due to new info.

akvoter

10/7/2011 15:17:18

Good catch, Cyn. The State of Alaska program to which you refer is Tefra and it is through Medicaid and it matters not if you are insured through an employer or not. The only criteria is what is considered a major medical issue in a minor child.

Patricia link

10/7/2011 15:27:31

Very interesting, Cyn! Just one question -- I wonder if it's because she ran for national office? Did you check other past presidential/vp candidates? Because if they aren't locked, then there really is something sinister afoot!

V ictoria link

10/7/2011 15:28:12

Cyn - short for cynthia or cynic? Very interesting. Anyway, is the lock permanent? If a Democratic governor was elected could s/he unlock that file?

Anonfornow

10/7/2011 15:28:30

Wow, oh wow.

The smoking gun. It's the coverup that will get you every time. So how to get this to the press?

Ottoline

10/7/2011 15:43:31

Cyn -- Very very interesting. Thank you!

Qu: when you say "SSA database covers all your personal information with the exception of credit history and credit scores," what personal info is it? I'm assuming birthdate, address, earning/pay-in history, pay-out history. What else? A correspondence file? Like if your name got mixed up; you had two SS numbers by mistake? What else might we expect to see in that file? Insurance issues?

London Bridges

10/7/2011 15:49:46

Is the significant part that there IS a file? If no one ever received SSI Disability in the Palin family, there'd be no file and nothing to lock.

Also, if Trig was in the hospital for months after birth, Trig could have received SSI EVEN if Sarah was the mother, as deeming would not apply as a hospitalized from birth child never lived with parents which "Triggers" the deeming of income and resources process.

Anon55

10/7/2011 15:50:11

Would the locked social security file perhaps have Trig's real birthdate?

Dis Gusted

10/7/2011 16:08:26

why would it be locked? Is this normal in incest cases?

why would there be a file? Is it solely for TriG???

Did SP authorize this file to be locked?

Can we hire Kernell? lol

Dangerous

10/7/2011 16:09:27

Sarah Palin was a candidate for Vice President of the United States, so I don't find a lock especially surprising.

But it also doesn't surprise me that she would want it locked to keep people from prying into it to discover all kinds of secrets she wants hidden.

In order to crack the Trig case, I'm guessing that someone is going to have to take a bullet to generate unequivocal proof of either the Palins lies or to make us all look foolish. Whether that's someone at Mat-su who will violate HIPAA, someone in Cyr's position with access to insurance of government records, or an Palin insider who is protecting the family, I can't say.

Theorizing on motives and judging the accuracy of inconsistent hearsay evidence and more conjecture on photographic evidence is not going to crack it. Medical or insurance records is what matters, as they have from the beginning.

Can someone in Alaska make a FOIA for any costs associated with Sarah Palin's "pregnancy" and "delivery"? It seems that since she admits to keeping that secret, it's a fair question to determine if she ended up spending more taxpayer dollars to maintain that secret.

AFM

10/7/2011 16:12:31

Sarah didn't run because she knows that the opposition reseach knows the answer to babygate. The main stream republican party weren't going to have this crazy woman in the white house. Now if she had the file locked you know darn well there is something there.

Original Lee

10/7/2011 16:14:32

Very aha! Romney, Huckabee, Jeb Bush, Schwartzenegger, Quayle - those would be people to see if their files were locked, as they would be the closest equivalents to Palin. I suspect that Sarah did not ask for her file to be locked. I suspect one of the puppetmasters took care of that via a Liberty University or Regents University worker bee at the SSA. (Sounds paranoid, I know, but yow!)

search4more

10/7/2011 16:17:55

Cyn,

Great post. :-)

Can I suggest a possibility to you? Could it not be the case that the file was locked because she ran for the vice presidency? In 2008 she was given a special status which brought a whole load of things including secret service protection. I don't know if this is the case though.

To test whether Vice presidential candidates have special status you could look up the SS details for other LOSING VP candidates. You have to do losing ones because I assume once you become VP there is a whole extra level of security around you.

So I suppose we are talking about:

John Edwards
Joe Lieberman
Jack Kemp
Patrick Choate
Dan Quayle
James Stockdale
Lloyd Bentsen
Geraldine Ferraro

etc. I suppose you could look up the losing presidential candidates too, but they may have been given a special status above that of VP.

I don't know what the rules your working under are. Don't lose your job over this. :-)

search4more

10/7/2011 16:21:33

sorry. got excited and posted before reading other peoples comments. everyone else is saying the same thing as me. oopsy. :-)

myrna nichols

10/7/2011 16:23:22

When Sarah was chosen to be the VP nominee, it was an extraordinary coincidence that someone wiped all of the computers in the Johnston house. The lock could have been put in place by the same people. However, that would not include Tripp since he wasn't born at the time. However, since Bristol was supposed to be five months pregnant at the 2008 convention, he may have been included because Bristol was not five months pregnant and they needed to cover their butts on that one too.

Yes, it could have been Sarah, but I don't think that she is that smart.

Viola-Alex

10/7/2011 16:26:51

GREAT post. The wealth of experience and expertise (not to mention intelligence) on this blog continues to give me hope.

The Locked File is just another signpost in the sea. Thank you, Cyn.

Sunshine1970

10/7/2011 16:32:37

What about other members of the Palin family? Are they locked? What about the Johnstons? Are they also locked?

granny j link

10/7/2011 16:35:45

Cyn this is an excellent post. Things that make you go hmmm. Thank you.

Ennealogic link

10/7/2011 16:42:20

If, as Cyn suggests, the only people authorized to lock SSI files are the state's Governor or the Director of their Health and Social Services department...

In May 2008, Karleen Jackson (who has been one of the very few Murkowski appointees that was not booted when Palin took office) resigned, with no explanation. This would be right about the time a birth certificate was needed to initiate insurance for Trig.

On July 24, 2008, Palin appointed Bill Hogan as Commissioner of the Department of Health and Social Services to replace Jackson.

His name comes up again in June 2009 as having asked Beverly Wooley, the public health directory within AK's DHSS to resign, on behalf of Palin. "Keep in mind this Division does everything from issue birth certificates..." [quote from Mudflats Forum, http://www.themudflats.net/forum/index.php?topic=7402.0].

In February 2011, Governor Parnell replaced Hogan with William J. "Bill" Streur.

mitch

10/7/2011 16:44:01

Does this getting fired business apply if there is some suspicion that a crime has been committed? Nothing would be better than to have Palin arrested for faking a pregnancy and committing insurance fraud. Oh happy day!

catclawz link

10/7/2011 16:47:23

any way to determine when the lock was put in place?

Ottoline

10/7/2011 16:47:49

AFM: I agree that opposition research must surely know everything we know/suspect on these blogs -- simply because they can read. But they undoubtedly know more than we do because they have Murdoch-style tactics (like the phone bugging, the blackmail files that phone-bugging must surely generate, and I bet much more). So the info is available to key people, and there's a MSM blackout on it.

I'm thinking back to the Edwards case, which supposedly reached the MSM finally because of one add'l photo of Edwards with baby, or leaving the hotel. That "final, crucial piece of data" always seemed weak to me. Now I'm thinking that key people had plenty of evidence all along, but the MSM blackout was lifted NOT because of the supposed new data point(s), but because the key top people just decided Edwards could be outed now. And I bet that's so with SP: when/if they figure out how to ensure damage control (limiting guilt to SP and not including McCain, Murdoch, Kochs, fundies, etc.) then we will see the MSM blackout lifted.

ann_s link

10/7/2011 16:52:57

Well, there you go. I think that is a real nail in the coffin, even without knowing what is inside. Damn John McCain.

DarkEFang link

10/7/2011 16:55:08

There may or may not be any interesting information in the file. Knowing who placed the lock on the file might be almost as informative as actually having access to it. There will be a record someplace of who physically changed the status of the file. That would be a good place to start.

Ottoline

10/7/2011 16:58:45

Cyn: Can you tell what **date** the lock was put on?

I disagree with whoever said someone should look and get fired for it. What if the data that are concealed, even if really germane, get the ho-hum from the MSM, as with much else so far. Worth losing one's livelihood over? I say no.

But I do think if you look at the other names suggested above, if it reveals the v interesting pattern of NO ONE ELSE HAS A SEALED FILE, that info could be passed on to "Fred" for late-breaking inclusion in that book. And worth a press release of some kind of its own.

My sense is that "Fred" is e-publishing/self-publishing (based on zero publisher info so far), so I bet late-breaking data could be added.

It certainly would be interesting if the lock was added in Feb 2008, and if v few comparable others have such a lock.

Ferry Fey

10/7/2011 17:07:51

"I'm guessing that someone is going to have to take a bullet to generate unequivocal proof"

Probably not the best turn of phrase when talking about Palin matters.

Brad Scharlott

10/7/2011 17:13:03

I was a Social Security claims rep in the 1970s for about a year. No doubt things have changed a lot. I think the locked file will remain untouchable.

Sounds like SSI was in fact involved. The paperwork would have passed through the office of the SSA building nearest the hospital of birth, I'm guessing. So, if it was Provident Hospital in Anchorage, what's the closest SSA office? A claims rep there probably handled the paperwork and made the initial determination of eligibility. There would be several such claims reps at a given office. (Or the claim might have gone above their heads – but I doubt it).

The birth mother's name might have been fake at the hospital, but her SSN would link to her real name, I assume. If Bristol was the mother, the claim would initially go under Bristol's SSN, even though she was a minor, IF a number had not yet been established for the baby. Once the baby's number was established, it would switch over. I just called SSA to verify that.

I'm not seeing that Sarah's or Todd's SSN's would have been directly involved. Still, their records might have been cross-referenced to the mother's and/or babies records.

The only way I see possibly getting at what happened is to find the claims rep or other SSA personnel who handled the claim and get them to speak off the record – no way they'd do it on the record. Who knows, maybe it became an inside secret throughout the entire office.

Those of you in Alaska, ask your friends if they have friends who work for SSA. Or visit the local SSA office and say you have general questions about your account and benefits. Note people's names if you can.

Later, approach someone in the parking lot after work, after initial recon, and invite them for a drink and tell them you are doing exciting research for a book, or whatever. And so on.

Katie Taylor

10/7/2011 17:26:10

Excellent post. I have always thought it strange that someone with "unauthorized" access to the various Palins files at the insurance company or the State of Alaska has not leaked information about the details of Trigg's birth (when and where). I suspect that similar locks exist at those places as well. I am familiar with policies at large insurance carriers and can state that there was no lock on the governor of Illinois's file when I was with the company that handled the State of Illinois business. Nor was I ever requested to place a lock on any high level individual's file handled by my office.

I do not think a case for insurance fraud exists with Trigg. Though I am convinced he was born before the 4-18-2008 date provided by Palin he would have been entitled to coverage any way. It also appears that Palin did not add him to her SoA policy until open enrollment period in July. By that time she probably had the necessary guardianship or adoption papers that would be needed to add him to the plan.

Mrs. Gunka

10/7/2011 17:39:04

Oh, that darn Government and it's wasteful spending on frivolous things. Open and transparent?

Thanks Cyn for this informative information. She is no longer the Governor. How long is the shelf life for former Governor security? Can the FBI get into these accounts at any time? I sure hope they have covered all of this and they are doing their job to expose this fraud. I really don't think these HIPPA laws were enacted to protect the normal person!! You and me. But anyone in the government spotlight and celebrities who have things they wanted to hide, and insurance companies that are ripping you and the government off. It isn't the patients who are ripping off Medicare and Medicaid! Does the Gov of Florida ring any bells?

I had to get power of attorney to get any information on my husband who has dementia to call and ask any questions about him with the insurance company, hospital, pharmacy and nursing home! Every time he has a procedure done I have to sign for him, but have to prove who I am. This is a waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. All of that information is on his insurance card if they would just bother to look it up. And our file isn't locked!!

I haven't worked since the first couple years we were married but they thought I had another insurance policy and was we were collecting money on two policies when he was diagnosed with cancer. They kept wanting my SS#! I said I didn't have to divulge that information to them...it wasn't my cancer! I said you have that information when he signed me up for the insurance...our only insurance he had with his workplace. I hadn't worked in 30 years, why would I have another policy.

You and I don't have the privilege of privacy, but the Governors do?? I think we are losing our freedoms but the leaders sure have theirs in place. If you have nothing to hide, why does it have to be a secret?

search4more

10/7/2011 17:41:06

Anyone know where this picture was taken?

http://bit.ly/qQpglv

I believe it was taken on or near the 29th August 2007. On the 29th August she went to an event about children's eye care and the company or organisation involved was called "ABCD". At that event she was wearing the same clothes as in this picture and so that's why I assume this picture was taken on the 29th august.

I'm not saying it's tremendously relevant, it's just that it's interesting to see Palin with a premature baby like in the photo.

...So anyone know where the facility is that she is in?

GhostbusterTX

10/7/2011 17:47:39

You know Brad, I'll admit I am mad with curiosity as to what the true story is here - but not to the point of asking another person to break the law or put themselves or their livelihood in jeopardy.

What you are suggesting are tactics worthy of, oh, who comes to mind here - Andrew Breitbart.

And before anyone starts throwing Deep Throat at me, I hardly think this is (at this point) a matter of national security or the integrity of our political system.

Just calling it like I see it.

MO Inkslinger

10/7/2011 17:50:12

If the information of the lock was to become "big time" news with the media, wouldn't someone be on the hot seat for continuing to allow a celebrity/reality show star/ speaker have her records locked. She is no longer the Governor, VP candidate or running for office so why would her file continue to be locked.

Tyroanee

10/7/2011 17:55:34

Seems as though we overturn a stone everyday, but this, this is a very, very heavy stone Ms. Novak.
One could call it the stone that needs no key, but with grit and determination a group could lift it with ease- loosing ones job to uncover the mystery surrounding this very dysfunctional family may not appeal to some, but this treasure is so worth it.

comeonpeople

10/7/2011 17:56:26

Very interesting post Cyn. I would like to know if other VP candidates are locked.
There are so many people with diverse areas of expertise working on this hoax that was played on the American public. Credible people asking pertinent questions. Eventually the truth will come to light. There are too many of us who can't be fooled and who know what the rules and standards are. We just need to keep asking the right people the right questions.

Broomhilda

10/7/2011 18:00:17

Although most of the blogs discuss the importance of HIPAA, they forget that there is another statute that would allow employees to TELL ALL! Has anyone thought about Whistle Blower Protection laws? Some states have such protection for employees who are reporting anything that goes against public policy. Alaska does! Things that go against public policy is a very broad arena. As example, committing fraud by lying about the birth date of a grandson to insurance agencies. Another example would be official documents that were fraudulent. Forgery? Keeping public records, i.e. Governor's emails, from the public would also be considered against public policy. In other words, employees who are aware of any of this can come forward and tell all without fear of retaliation.

A few different ways Whistle Blower Protection could work in the case of the Palins. If, for example, a sitting governor was trying to commit insurance fraud, state employees with information concerning such fraud could report the fraud and be protected. If higher level supervisors try to cover up the reported fraud, this would also be against Public Policy, and they should be fired.

Alaska has a fairly strong Whistleblower Protection Act... http://www.hainesborough.us/Employee/AK%20Whistleblower.pdf

Here is the Wikipedia entry on Whistle Blower statutes... A whistleblower is a person who tells the public or someone in authority about alleged dishonest or illegal activities (misconduct) occurring in a government department, a public or private organization, or a company. The alleged misconduct may be classified in many ways; for example, a violation of a law, rule, regulation and/or a direct threat to public interest, such as fraud, health/safety violations, and corruption. Whistleblowers may make their allegations internally (for example, to other people within the accused organization) or externally (to regulators, law enforcement agencies, to the media or to groups concerned with the issues).

Viola-Alex

10/7/2011 18:04:48

@ghostbusterTX - you pose a good question. And you addressed it to Brad, but I'll add my 2 cents since I'm a fellow Texan.) Derrick Bell, the first tenured black professor at Harvard Law, just died. He urged his students to "Stand up, Speak out." He more than lived those words and often acted in provocative ways spurred by his own moral beliefs. At one point he quit his position at Harvard to protest that no black woman professor had ever been granted tenure. A woman was. Bell returned.

Palin has gotten as far as she has because people are afraid to step up. Hell, I'd hire a hacker at this point if I knew how or had the means. Would I go to jail if I KNEW I could finger Palin for the complete fraud she is. Yes, I think I would.

Others may feel the same. No, Palin going down won't solve all our problems, but it would show that this nation can still self-correct.

Yes, I do consider Palin a threat to national security and to the integrity of our political system. I also consider her a threat to Mothers, Professional Women, and Grandmothers.

(for more on the Palin virus, read Joe McG's new essay on the media.)

Allison link

10/7/2011 18:04:51

Tripp's file is locked, too? I think I know why - there's something fishy about his birthdate, just like his older brother's.

I'm a long running "Anti-Palin" blog reader with great respect for Gryphen, Laura, Malia, Bree, Floyd, et al. I have something to add to the community of Trig Truthers, and invite you to check out my blog The Palin Place:

http://thepalinplace.blogspot.com/2011/10/sarah-pact-has-levi-made-deal-with.html

Today's topic "Sarah Pact: Did Levi make a deal with the Quitter."

We need all the good minds we can get to eventually crack this open. I would appreciate anyone adding new ideas, or reminding us of forgotten clues. Please stop by.

Brad Scharlott

10/7/2011 18:20:54

GhostbusterTX: So you seemingly concede that Woodward and Bernstein may have been justified in getting government employees to give inside info re Watergate, but you differentiate that from Babygate concerning the importance of of the wrongdoing.

I totally disagree. We don't know how far up this hoax goes – remember, in Watergate, every effort was made to shield the president, including erasing information on tapes from the Oval Office. How do we know whether McCain himself was involved or not? In both cases, rigging the game re the presidential election was possibly the objective.

I have no problem with you arguing that journalists should never do what Woodward and Bernstein did – many ethics professors would agree. But I think you should be consistent.

For me, it's the utilitarian argument of the greatest good for the greatest number. As far as either of us knows, there is an SSA employee who is just itching to share inside info b/c of Palin's hypocrisy etc.

V ictoria link

10/7/2011 18:33:05

@Broomhilda: But has she really committed fraud in the legal sense? She apparently took off no days for maternity leave, used open enrollment to get trig into a program, etc, etc. Of course, she's been ripping off her supporters big time - and anyone silly enough to pay BP to be their abstinence spokesperson - and the biographies are all BS - but does that constitute fraud? The fraud in which a whistleblower would be protected?

But maybe someone with nothing to lose will take a bullet.

mmud

10/7/2011 18:41:29

Wow! Whoa! Yahoo!

Very clearly written, Cyn. Thank you.
I love when details are added that support her lack of scruples and her (or MeCain's or someone's) attempts to hide the facts.

jaybo

10/7/2011 18:48:08

Wow.
Great post.
Good think Sarah has nothing to hide;-)

search4more:Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:41:06

Anyone know where this picture was taken?

http://bit.ly/qQpglv

Here is some information about the event. From Sarah's inbox.
No actual date, but all the info to do more research. There probably were press releases, and newspaper coverage.

What I found:

" Kodiak Daily Mirror
Kodiak Lions Club purchases $ 12,000 cameras
for infant, child vision care
Article published on Monday, October 8th, 2007
By DEANNA COOPER
Local optometric physician and longtime Lions Club member Jerimiah Myers met with Gov. Sarah
Palin, Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell and the head of staff of Providence Children's Hospital in Anchorage,
Dr. Robert Arnold, in late August to discuss the Alaska Blind Child Discovery (ABCD) program.
The project identifies visual problems with yearly screening for children from infants to grade
school."

Found it here - scroll to roston 01014.

http://sarahsinbox.com/thread/add-to-clips-2/

Patricia link

10/7/2011 18:50:33

OMG you've hit Andrew Sullivan :)

10/7/2011 18:53:13

"@Broomhilda: But has she really committed fraud in the legal sense? She apparently took off no days for maternity leave, used open enrollment to get trig into a program, etc, etc. Of course, she's been ripping off her supporters big time - and anyone silly enough to pay BP to be their abstinence spokesperson - and the biographies are all BS - but does that constitute fraud? The fraud in which a whistleblower would be protected?

But maybe someone with nothing to lose will take a bullet."

^^^^She's committed fraud by telling her "story" at right to life events in which she was paid for.

I definitely think that would be grounds for a civil suit.

wslocombe link

10/7/2011 19:04:22

I would think it perfectly normal that the files of a high profile person -- like a nominee for Vice President of the US or her immediate family -- would be blocked from normal access. What's the story for, for example, movie stars, sports figures, other major political figures, Gates and Jobs?. If they are not blocked, and the Palins are, there's a story, otherwise, not.

Patricia link

10/7/2011 19:11:25

Me -- telling fictional stories at public events is not grounds for a civil suit. There's no tort. No one got hurt in any measurable way.

If you want to prove fraud against SP, look at Dairygate and Housegate. Plenty of evidence to be found there.

greg

10/7/2011 19:12:44

While looking up records out of curiosity is normal for people who work with databases, please be aware that this public disclosure, while minor, is a breach of security and unethical.

Ottoline

10/7/2011 19:14:09

I like Brad's idea of buying a SS employee a drink and discussing things. If anything is "common knowledge" among SS employees, it could well be leaked without the source being identified. If a number of random AK people did that, and emailed their conclusions to the blog-owner of their choice, I bet we would move one more step ahead.

A person who risks telling the truth in AK risks not only HIPAA consequences but also the preceived threats of arson, murder, vandalism, family safety, and job loss. So the risks seem even bigger than the risks Watergate informants thought they faced. All the more reason to think of ways to facilitate unidentified sources who can however produce copies of actual info or other evidence.

I too have been comparing Watergate and BabyHoax all along, and my impression is that they are very parallel (in aiming to sway a presidential election), and that BabyHoax might actually be a bigger deal.* Because the MSM blackout of Watergate was broken by the courageous Bradlee/Graham decision for the Washington Post to go with the story, even against the personal (tit in a wringer) threat to Katherine Graham by Atty General John Mitchell. Following which, the NYT also started coverage. And then they were neck and neck to pursue the story, as were other media.

In this case, I become more convinced with every new incident that we have a MSM blackout on this story -- not because of Palin but because of who else will be involved once it starts to unravel. The owners of the MSM, for one. McCain and his senior staff. The hard-to-prove Dominionist connection. All this seems worse to me than Watergate, in terms of who is involved and their power to deny info to us in the MSM.

I'm not one who thinks our journalists are much different than they have been in times past. Underfunded, sure. Fewer of them, okay. But I bet there are still a significant number who are ready to GO with this story but know that they face consequences if they do. Consequences serious enough to stop them, so far. In this era of Murdoch-like tactics within the fiber of our MSM, no surprise there.

At first, this was just a pregnancy hoax, and we went round and round re the family dynamics, and wondered how it could possibly be. Now that we know SP was not pregnant, we see that others who observed her full time and with much at stake must also have known everything we do, and MORE. Now, the family and even SP matter way less, as we have educated ourselves in the connections UP the chain of responsibility, which seem clearly (to me) to extend to the oft-named usual suspects (enablers, supporters, MSM) as well as others we have not figured out yet.

___________
*Wallace and Schmidt report that they discussed not swearing SP in as VP if they won. This suggests that McCain knew. If he did not, he is admitting stupidity; if he did, he is admitting complicity.

magpie

10/7/2011 19:17:29

And when this chick ever pulls out of the state for greener pastures, will she be taking that file with her or will it be part and parcel of the Social Security office in Alaska? She's not governor anymore. How can she possibly control the security of this file?

Ottoline

10/7/2011 19:30:55

magpie -- I think SP's main leverage now is that she could talk on her downward fall. After she has accepted some kind of huge (preferably secret) payoff, perhaps then the MSM blackout can be lifted and everyone and his brother can claim ignorance of the hoax, supported by their peers. The kind of deep pockets, long fingers I am thinking is responsible for the MSM blackout would also be in a position to control the security on SS records and any other info damaging to SP.

whistler

10/7/2011 19:37:36

@jaybo-that pic was on the 29th of august 2007

Laura Novak link

10/7/2011 19:40:16

I am simply cringing at Palin touching a preemie that size, inside the isolette, without a gown.

Did she do a scrub first? Used to be a timed 5-minute scrub back in the day when my son was in the NICU. FIVE minutes, different sides of the sponge, timed. Then a gown.

Now, they do shorter scrubs. But still. I am simply cringing at this photo, forget what else it might mean. Ugh.

BarBar

10/7/2011 19:41:42

I can easily picture McCain's camp being responsible for the locked file after realizing what a huge mistake it was not vetting the looney tune woman who they found out had no problems with telling them and anyone else whopping gigantic lies.

McCain people found out the truth right away with a little vetting and the info was too embarrassing for anyone to ever find out they had been utterly duped by this stupid woman. They probably didn't want anyone to find out that she got her tubes tied after Piper was born.

GhostbusterTX

10/7/2011 19:42:07

The Watergate investigation began when a crime was committed: five men were caught red-handed breaking into the Democratic National Committee headquarters.

The Babygate investigation began when the Governor of Alaska told reporters an implausible and somewhat self-contradictory story of how her fifth child arrived in the world.

The Watergate break-in was obviously part of a plot to subvert the democratic process and to illegally interfere with the election. The perpetrators had incriminating evidence on their persons and ties to the executive branch. None of this was speculation.

Babygate: Sarah obviously has lied about the "wild ride" and has told many unsubstantiated and contradictory versions of this aspect of her personal life.

Watergate: The crime was part of a plot to steal an election through illegal means, including wiretapping offices of the opposing political party and financial shenanigans.

Babygate: Some people think it was part of a plot to *influence* an election by creating an image/profile of one of the candidates that might be appealing to some voters.

Watergate: "Deep Throat" is a high-level administration insider with information about the details of the FBI investigation; the details leaked are interfering with the attempted cover-up of a serious political crime.

Babygate: Brad is asking a low-level bureaucrat to illegally access personal records on an individual who is suspected of possibly acting unethically in hopes of gaining political advantage.

Watergate: The big question was: did the sitting president know about, condone, or facilitate criminal activities undertaken to keep him in power? Was he involved in the attempt to cover up the crime?

Babygate: The big question is: did a presidential candidate know about, condone, or encourage a hoax that might have positively affected the image of his VP pick (or potential pick, depending on how far back you think he might have known) for a subset of voters?

You know, maybe it's just me, but I don't see putting on a fat suit and making false claims about being pregnant as being on the same level as wiretapping phones, breaking into the opposing campaign's offices in order to go through file cabinets, destroying evidence, and using mass firings to obstruct the investigation.

FYI Deep Throat was not just a low-level employee who could go on a fishing expedition for a particular piece of data that may or may not exist that may or may not support a supposition that a crime might or might not have been committed: he held the second-ranking post in the FBI, had access to everything the the FBI knew about the Watergate case, was in a position to observe the administration's response to the course of the investigation, and he provided information to Woodward and Bernstein for a period of two years.

Woodward and Bernstein were investigating ongoing criminal activity that was being actively perpetrated by the very highest levels of our government and that threatened the integrity of our democratic institutions.

So yes, I do see a difference.

LisanTx

10/7/2011 19:56:57

search4more:

there is an additional picture of the "TinyAlaskan" scene:

http://tinyurl.com/63v5vdu

This might further help confirm the location.

aha

10/7/2011 19:57:54

Have to agree with B.S. on this one. The funny thing about 'careers' and their saving, to me, is this: If someone who knows a particularly valuable set of information positioned themselves correctly the amount of money they would stand to make by exposing that information could potentially be worth much more than his/her day job, let's say, over the next Ten years. How much do SS employees make anyway? Even topping out at 100,000 annually. I'd say writing a book or creatively earning a lump sum figure would be well worth a Ten Year vacation. If you're only making $50k, well you do the math. Who wouldn't?

Palin finally figured this out for herself; she dumped the $120k a year job and made more in 2 years than she would have otherwise made in 20 years at that salary...and of course she would have only had that job for another one and a half years, anyway. She's not so dumb, after all.

Here's to hoping someone who doesn't like their slave job so much will wise up and spill the beans for cash, career be damned. I mean really, how many of you would still go to your day job if you had a million or so in the bank? Be honest.

Ottoline

10/7/2011 19:59:54

Well done, GhostbusterTX! You are so right on every count IMO. My only difference of opinion with you would be that not all of the facts you've laid out were known or connected so clearly at the outset. That could well be the case here: collusion of RW/Dominionist leaders in coercing McCain to pick a VP candidate that they know was perping a hoax. If this proves to be only SP's hoax, or if it proves to be a hoax orchestrated at way higher levels -- that would make a big difference.

I also fear the huge sums that are going into bogus "freedom-sounding" think tanks and entities that are just fronts for accomplishing the same goal as the hoax (pulling in low-info voters to a near-fascist cause). That and the muzzled MSM.

But you are right: illegal and unethical are different. The level of danger to us all does not seem that different. Am I over-reacting?

Denster

10/7/2011 20:00:50

I'd have to agree with at least one earlier comment: I think it would be very helpful / instructive to know WHEN this "lock" was put in place.

V ictoria link

10/7/2011 20:02:41

But who would pay the money for the information? Obviously the MSM has not been interested.

Larry Flynt?

Another issue: are there other repercussions besides getting fired? Could they go to jail? Get sued?

jimfocus

10/7/2011 20:03:01

Trig would be eligible for ICF/DD funding under the Alaska program immediately due to the fact he was born with a designated developmental disability. That would also, likely, immediately qualify him for SSI and health benefits. And Medicaid is also a reimbursement program.

comeonpeople

10/7/2011 20:12:49

I wonder if HIPAA may become less and less of an issue as more is revealed. We have Schmidt and Wallace on record stating that Palin is mentally ill and that theyg considered ways of gettin her out of the VP title if McCain won. HIPAA can be overridden in cases of a national security threat. I realize she is not running now, but a mentally ill VP is a huge national security threat. In order to investigate at some point what a huge error occurred by taking the risk with chosing Palin, perhaps her entire medical history will need to be known. And known that it was covered up or not vetted properly. Hell, we don't need to know EVERYTHING about her, nor do I want to, but we need to know that she was never pregnant with any of the children currently known as TRi-G. A psychiatric diagnosis also needs to be revealed. Wasn't there someone in the 60's 0r 70's who was dismissed becasue of a history of depression? Hell, 10% of the US population takes antidepressants these days.
Also, the whisteblower information is helpful. Hopefully it will give more people to ask questions and demand answers.

Melly

10/7/2011 20:28:24

Do you know you're linked on Andrew Sullivan?

WakeUpAmerica

10/7/2011 20:30:26

Any idea how many files are locked in AK? Wouldn't it be great if someone would release records to WikiLeaks?

Laura Novak link

10/7/2011 20:34:57

Yes, thank you for the link to Andrew Sullivan. Here it is in case others have not seen it:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/10/palins-locked-social-security-file.html

And thank you, Andrew Sullivan, for linking here.

Thanks, also, too, to Cyn for providing us with this post.

lilly lily

10/7/2011 20:42:00

And how nice of her to allow rather scruffy Levi Johnston in his dirty t shirt to cuddle her new born preemie infant.

WTH is going on with this baby farce. It isn't even babygate, it is pure unadulterated nonsense and a farce, from leaking drop by drop for weeks, to traveling to Texas to leak some more, and then slowly through 2 plane rides and then leak all the way to Mat Su in a snow storm bypassing qualified hospital after qualified hospital to her understanding home town G.P..and a unqualified delivery room that refuses all problematic birthings.

Anon55

10/7/2011 20:49:21

If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. The tea party darling, get government out of the way, let people take care of themselves . . . Feeding at the public trough, taking SSI money for Trig. But didn't the Tea Partiers cheer at the Republican debates and say people without insurance should just be left to die? I guess not when they are useful political prop babies.

FrostyAK

10/7/2011 21:00:27

Excellent detective work, Cyn. Thank you. Can you look up other former AK governors? Frank Murcowski, Tony Knowles, etc? Here's a list:
http://tinyurl.com/3o7p2l5

Was the Palin lock put in place before or after March 5, 2008. Or was it when the RNC took over the state in July/August 2008?

Anyone, anywhere can initiate an FOIA request. Press would have a reason to do so. Those of us in AK CANNOT do such at this time.

Remember, $P has the majority of her insiders still in high paid state government positions. They would and will do anything she asks, just to keep those high paying jobs. Bailey didn't decide to publish his book of half truths until he no longer had that cushy state job. Then there were those pesky RNC operatives that TOOK OVER all of the state government, and wiped private citizen's hard drives. What did they do at the state government level?

On whistleblowers. That law is not worth the paper it is printed on. A LOT of whistleblowers at the national level have not only lost their jobs, but have been prosecuted/convicted/jailed/killed for their efforts to make this a better society. Being justified is no protection.

GustavMahler

10/7/2011 21:01:24

I worked for SSA also, looking up this information for non-work reasons is a violation in itself. Although I am just as curious as to what is going on, do you realize you might be in trouble already? I also worked at IRS, just typing in the SSN of any politician or celebrity could get you fired. You just admitted to looking up the files of 30 governors? This seems very odd to me.

Lynn

10/7/2011 21:09:02

it was Thomas Eagleton who was McGovern's running mate.he was either replaced or resigned from the ticket for concealing his medical history- think he had been on Thorazine and maybe even had had shock therapy. I do remember, even though I was young, that it did facilitate a more open discourse about mental health, nationally- much like Betty Ford made addiction less taboo.

There is depression, which almost everyone can understand and sympathize with, and then there is serious mental illness, and to me, faking a pregnancy does not sound like depression.

Great post, Cyn.

Brian

10/7/2011 21:17:50

Comparing Babygate to Watergate point-by-point is, perhaps, not the most helpful way of looking at things.

I remember vividly the moment Palin walked out on the stage as McCain's VP nominee. A shiver of fear passed through me like I've never experienced before. In a flash, I saw the real possibility of a truly dangerous person taking over the presidency.

That there was something fundamentally fraudulent about Palin became evident to me almost just as quickly. And as the likelihood of her having faked a pregnancy became more obvious--whether as a conscious ploy for votes or a matter of expediency to hide her daughter's mistake--the more I realized how disturbed and ruthless she was.

Although we don't know what McCain knew, and when he knew it, he must have realized at some point that he had nominated a deranged individual, someone who threatened his own campaign, and someone who would be a great threat to the nation should he get elected. But he went forward with Palin as nominee, and has never admitted error or expressed regret for his profound lack of judgement--and his ultimate betrayal of the people.

So, yes, this is not the same as Watergate. But had McCain been elected, and Palin become Vice President, anything--and I mean anything--could have happened. That's why we're making comparisons, however imperfect, to one of the great scandals in American history.

Palin's Pest

10/7/2011 21:24:38

2 thoughts:

Either no one cares about Levi's words, meaning they don't him seriously enough to think he's truthful about the "drops leaking for months"

Or no one actually read his poorly crafted and edited book, and interviewed him based on biased reports online.

Rationalist

10/7/2011 21:24:50

This is a GREAT post. Can't wait to hear if Palin is alone of candidates having a locked file. If so, that's definitely news.

anandine

10/7/2011 21:25:29

The problem with asking someone to sneak a look at the file is that it is password protected. Anyone who tries to get through that is noted and passed up the line. You would be asking someone to get fired for nothing.

Lolita

10/7/2011 21:36:53

search4more,

I think the question from me would me more about why did SARAH'S physical appearance change SO drastically from Sept 07 through that following spring. She looks like a completely different person to me.

Bill in Chicago

10/7/2011 21:37:52

I'm no Palin fan, but how many of those other Governors had a very public incident where their Blackberries were hacked and private emails published? Also, kind of funny that you're snooping around in her personal files, then scratching your head about why on earth they would block random people from gaining access thereto.

Laura Novak

10/7/2011 21:40:34

Let me be really clear here. I am not in any way advocating that anyone anywhere go into the system to learn more about this person or her family.

If the file is locked, then it is locked. To suggest going deeper into it is not okay by me. And I am not suggesting it.

Older_Wiser

10/7/2011 21:56:02

I don't think she had it locked; I think it was done when she ran for VP and it was done by the Secret Service on orders from John McCain.

Which makes McCain even more reprehensible as he knew Trig wasn't her kid.

comeonpeople

10/7/2011 21:56:02

@Lynn,
I agree with you 100%.
I believe Palin is seriously mentally ill. Unfortunate, but it is what it is and she should never have been a candidate.
Even if i knew nothing about her, all it would take for me to beleive this woman is DELUSIONAL would be the Elan Frank video of her thumpin a square pillow in her panties and stating with glee that she could had "tight abs" and she didn't show.
That is truly cuckoo for cocopuffs.
That, and wearing shoes three sizes too big on the red carpet. 'Nuff said.

mistah charley, ph.d.

10/7/2011 21:57:50

Brian says, " But had McCain been elected, and Palin become Vice President, anything--and I mean anything--could have happened."

Sure.

But even though Palin didn't become VP, pretty much anything can happen anyway.

curiouser

10/7/2011 21:59:19

Well, the existence of a locked SSA file for Trig means he has a social security number. I had expected to learn that the Palins never applied for one. Also, SSN or not, they may have refused Medicaid coverage (unlikely for someone who collected per diem for staying at home) if they were keeping Trig off the radar.

"You can apply for a Social Security number for your baby when you apply for your baby’s birth certificate. The state agency that issues birth certificates will share your child’s information with us and we will mail the Social Security card to you."

http://ssa.gov/pubs/10023.html

The birth certificate could have been generated and the social security assigned before Sarah decided to be 'pregnant'. At any point in the process, there are a range of possibilities for how a birth certificate and SSN could come into being given that Sarah was the governor with administrative power over the state agencies involved.

I wonder if any of Palin's biographers tried to interview Mike Tibbles, resigned abruptly on May 1 '08, or Karleen Jackson, resigned about the same time.

Laura - Ditto 'Ugh!'

V ictoria link

10/7/2011 22:09:22

Given how the MSM did not even discuss the photos of SP with the big scarves and changing belly - or roll their eyes at her fanstastic wild ride story - breaking into the SSA file is probably not worth it.

We need MeAgain's friend to tape Palin making a comment like she did about CBJ forbidding her to fly during the Piper pregnancy.

Older_Wiser

10/7/2011 22:22:04

One other thing about my theory that John McCain ordered it done:

Palin didn't even know that much about State govt, and she might not even have known that a person's SS file could be "locked", and why would she? Most people don't know this--I certainly didn't.

And there is the infamous memo from the State Benefits Dept to her asking for Trig's birth certificate because it had not been received at least a full month after his "birth", and <i>Todd</i> responding with, "I'll call them."

patg

10/7/2011 22:26:52

Cyn, I hope you checked your employee handbook prior to this posting. You obviously have clearance to access SSA files and apparently saw the "locked" notice inadvertently. However, to go ahead and check 30 other names was intentional. I am assuming you are not a Federal but a State employee.

SSA employees are subject to firing, arrest, and prison if found to have sold SSA information so posters here suggesting that SSA employees could sell information are suggesting prison terms. As for accessing SSA files for curiousity's sake or for a friend, this is not allowed and can lead to being fired. Yes, all this is trackable in the SSA computers and access is on a 'need to know' basis. Yes, even trying to help find a nonpaying child support shirker for a friend or relative can get you fired.

True, Palin's machinations and the complicity of higher-up's may be intriguing - even criminal - but please don't suggest SSA employees could just merrily sell information and go on with their lives - doesn't work that way.

Uneasy

10/7/2011 22:41:49

I'm with patg on this post. Does cyn realize that every search she has done on the SSA database is linked back to his/her log in name and password? As much as I would like to see Palin exposed, this is not the way. To have a person with access to SSA do searches for no permissible purpose other than curiosity is, in my opinion, unethical. Doesn't matter if cyn looked in the files or not, cyn does not have a permissible purpose to access those names. You may be in for some serious repercussions on this post.

Ken

10/7/2011 22:55:22

"While doing a non-related search" you accidentally tried to accessed the Palin's files? You just tripped over them because of a misspelling?

The Palins have a right to privacy. Even releasing the info that their files are locked is a violation. You deserve to be fired and you probably WILL be fired. Welcome to the real world (soon to be ex-) government employee. I'll save you a spot in the unemployment line....

comeonpeople

10/7/2011 22:59:32

CYN perhaps is pretty high up and knows the risks? How do we know what her position is or what she has authority to access?
I'm not sure what she did is unethical. She didn't access anyone's file. We don't know what her database allows or what it looks like and what her access allow. In my computer system at work, I can look at the entire patient list for my unit on a homescreen. I may physically care for only 8 of 120 patients we see, but I have access to all of them and see them on my main screen, thus I know they are there and that is allowed legally. Maybe she has access that safely allows her to look at this.
How the heck are you ever supposed to get anything investigated? Sorry for my naive frustration. So hoaxers can just get away with whatever the hell they want and we have to sit back and take it? That's bullshit. Those who know a hoax and fakery has taken place have to just "take it".
I KNOW that CBJ did not deliver Palin of any high risk pregnancy on 4/18/08 at MatSu. Yet, she is protected. It's so very wrong.
OK, rant over.
Gonna eat a nice dinner and hope my baseball team can win it tonight.

curiouser

10/7/2011 23:12:25

A quick thought about health insurance fraud--

SOA is self-insured. There isn't an insurance company that would prosecute if there was fraud in the event Sarah had no legal custody of Trig and was using state health insurance for him.

SaltAire

10/7/2011 23:17:50

Be careful Cyn and stay safe. This info will likely explode on the net as I see websites are already linking to your post.
Hope a trail does not lead back to you. McCain and all his partners in deceit should be incarcerated.
I believe Laura has covered herself with her statement.

nancydrewed link

10/7/2011 23:18:33

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but my feeling is that no one should have 'lock' on their data, or everyone should have a 'lock' on their data. My privacy is as important as anyone else's as far as I'm concerned. Identity theft would be as devastating to me and mine, as an 'open' file would be to any politician. Evidently that lock was not applied to seal off SSNs in fear of identity theft -- it was other data in the file. Now what might that be? A bothersome birthdate or two?

Cripes. Maybe the NSA could get on the job and get a little leaky, somewhere inside the Beltway.

Phyllis

10/7/2011 23:26:08

Laura
Yes they scrubbed up that day but it's very disturbing that they didn't make them wear a gown

Lieutenant Governor's Report: September 10, 2007
Sep 10, 2007 – By Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell

Welcome to the latest edition of your Lieutenant Governor's Report. The Palin/Parnell Administration had many exciting opportunities in the last few weeks to serve Alaskans that I wanted to share with you.

The governor and I had the opportunity to tour Providence Children's Hospital Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, or NICU at the end of August. After washing our hands for two full minutes per hospital health practices, we toured the state-of-the-art facility and were honored to meet some of our youngest and most fragile Alaskans.

Brad Scharlott

10/7/2011 23:30:29

I imagine that whistle-blowers often technically break some rules in divulging information, but that whistle-blowing protection legislation may override those rules and give protection to the whistle-blower.

In the hypothetical case of getting an SSA claims rep to spill the beans, do any of us know all the relevant legislation, rules, etc, to say our hypothetical reporter should not take such information from the SSA rep?

If, for ethical reasons, you would tell that reporter not to go there, fine. I admire your ethics.

I'd try to get the SSA employee to spill the beans.

really...

10/7/2011 23:33:11

Wait. Stop. Drop the conspiracy theories.
As one who recently retired from a very responsible position in Social Security, I can tell you from experience that the so-called "locked" file is not an aberration, or that unusual.

If you recall, during the Clinton Administration there were several widely publicized incidents where unauthorized government workers accessed the confidential information of someone in the public spotlight and made that information known. After this same problem occurred on a couple of occasions, Social Security made it a written (and highly enforced) policy to restrict access of ALL files on a strict "need to know" basis. And a system was put in place to track access to those files.

The SSA database is, and has been, code protected on multiple levels. But those files that attract attention due to public notoriety are especially closely monitored to prevent those with a curious bent, but no need, from accessing the personal files of any individual.

For example, even though I had access to all of the millions of confidential individual files in the system, if I accessed a file that was not directly assigned to me for action, my access was noted and I was subject to discipline up to and including immediate termination. All SSA employees are informed of this restriction annually and sign a form acknowledging the notice.

So, the fact that some one like Ms. Palin has specific alert on her file is mainly to keep the curious (and/or the worker who would like to embarrass her because they oppose her politics or pronouncements) out of the file.

Every individual who is issued a social security number has a file which reflects such things as earnings, or applications for benefits. That information is highly confidential and is protected by law. Keeping the curious out of such info is an important priority for all agencies and especially for SSA which of necessity complies info on millions of workers for purposes of collecting taxes and disbursing benefits.

During my tenure with SSA there were several employees terminated for accessing the files of public figures, or even family members, when they had no work related need to see the file. This is as it should be. Such files are kept for the limited purpose of administering the SSA system, not for public curiosity or opposition research. Your file is protected from both people who like you , as well as those who don't. Aren't you glad that it is?

PleaseBeCareful

10/7/2011 23:35:04

This is very fascinating, but please make sure you can not get into any trouble for looking up people who are not on your caseload. I have heard of people losing their jobs for accessing records that they did not have reason to do so. Please make sure you will not get into trouble! Take care, please.

Dirge

10/7/2011 23:40:07

Whether she ran 3 years ago for public office or not, Sarah Palin is a private citizen right now. I don't see how she's any more entitled than the rest of us to having a locked file. I wonder what would happen if we all requested locked files from the SSA?

"Your file is protected from both people who like you , as well as those who don't. Aren't you glad that it is?"

But some files are MORE protected. I'm not glad that THAT's possible.

Brad Scharlott

10/7/2011 23:47:30

These last three posts (mine, really, and PleaseBeCareful) highlight the reason investigative reporters sometimes work in the gray areas, ethically speaking. Did the Watergate revelations justify the ethical shortcuts of Woodward and Bernstein? No easy answer. Janet Malcolm made valid points re McGinniss. Should we castigate McGinniss for betraying the murderer Jeffrey MacDonald?

comeonpeople

10/7/2011 23:49:32

@reallY:
No, I'm with Nancydrewed. We should all be equally protected.

The fair thing seems to be that the average worker only gets access to their assigned cases or geographic area or whatever , although this would be a logistical nightmare
If my system gave me only a screen with my assigned patients and everyone else is locked out it would slow things down and be unsafe..I jump in and help any given colleague at any given time and need access to all patients. I see them on my main screen and can access as needed.I am not supposed to access them unless I need to, but I still know they are there smack dab on my main sceen.
I imagine setting up a system on a national level would be nearly impossible to keep current with workers cases.
It is so curious that Palin is the only governor locked out of 30 checked//checked being the operative word here. The files were not accessed, just searched for.

nancydrewed link

10/7/2011 23:53:15

@really. "If you recall, during the Clinton administration there were several widely publicized incidents..."

I don't recall. Can you enlighten?

And the Palin family deserves more privacy and protection than mine for what reason?

PleaseBeCareful

10/8/2011 00:01:09

Investigative reporters know the risks they are taking. I'm afraid an ordinary citizen may not know that they can get into serious trouble and lose their job by accessing records not on their caseload. If Cyn understand this, and is fine with the personal risks, well, she's an adult and can make her own choices.

Uneasy

10/8/2011 00:09:32

Ok, now you have gone over the edge. Read and take heed of the post from "Really". You are in some serious shit here.

comeonpeople

10/8/2011 00:16:24

o/t FYI as I know this has been weighing heavily on our collective minds here:
Harold Camping has reset the rapture date for 10.21.2011
Mark your calendars, stop paying your mortgages and wrack up those credit cards people. Those not raptured will be destroyed on that day with the earth, also too.
Party on Garth!
You'd think Palin, lnowing this, would have declared her candidacy since she would only need to actually work at it less than three weeks, tops! AND she'd have the title Presidential candidate to boot!

Tada

10/8/2011 00:16:55

Is it possible and legal to search the database using a combination of 'last name' and 'DOB'? If so, if searching the database for 'Palin' and '04/18/08' list all persons with the last name of Palin born on that date, including those whose file is locked? If that's the case, and no Palins are listed when you do the search, then you have proof that Trig was NOT born on 4/18/08. No need to access the file. If this works, then the same type of search can be done for Tripp's alleged DOB in Dec-08.

AKRNC

10/8/2011 00:28:01

This is really interesting news and if it applies to Tripp, it certainly had nothing to do with the V.P. nomination since he was born almost 2 months after the election. I think the fact that the file is locked, along with the dates of resignation of the DSHS Commissioner are more than just a coincidence. We all know Palin will do anything to cover up her secrets and lies. I firmly believe the reason she didn't run for President was the increased scrutiny she would face. She talks about how thoroughly she was vetted but have we ever seen a national article on Dairygate, her despicable treatment of Native Alaskans and how she allowed them to suffer due to lack of food and oil for heat, or the overwhelming number of people died due to her state's mismanagement of Medicaid funding? While the MSM has ignored the above for the past 3 years, it would not have gone unnoticed if she ran for President.

For someone who has shoved her entire family, immediate and extended, in front of the cameras, her need for privacy in this file is definitely questionable. So, Sarah, tell us...what are you hiding??

Cracklin Charlie

10/8/2011 00:29:44

Hey, comeonpeople!

Three week candidacy? That's just like her last "pregnancy"! Great idea!

Ottoline

10/8/2011 00:30:25

Hoaxing and lying are not in themselves illegal. So we must not do illegal acts to find information about acts we don't like that are not illegal.

Unethical? yes, a hoax of the BabyHoax kind is unethical. Lying about it is not illegal. Lying under oath IS illegal, which is what caught Bill Clinton and Martha Stewart. But no one is under oath yet, or perhaps will ever be.

I guess some of us are frustrated that even things that seem clearly and plainly illegal have no traction: like the cooperation and funding of the Palin election video by the RNC under Romney's leadership, identified in Bailey's book. Or the lying under oath at the trial of the young man who hacked Palin's mail.

The BabyHoax is SO unethical and disgusting that we can be outraged. But it is not illegal.

caligirl

10/8/2011 00:42:27

The fact that THERE is even a file for a GOV of a state who had full insurance. This is the smoking gun, why would Sarah Palin need SSI for her own child that would have been covered under her own policy.Where is Wikileaks when you need them? This is infuriating, if Sarah Palin used "Socialized medicine" for her fake pregnancy but started the whole Death Panel that ended up watering down the healthcare debate, this coule be bigger than just a fake pregnancy.

FrostyAK

10/8/2011 00:49:40

Some things we have learned on this thread:

1. Some people are willing to take small risks for what they believe in. Other people are willing to take big risks for what they believe in.

2. Naysayers will always tell the risk takers about the consequences of said risks - be their warnings truth or non-truth. Shamers will always shame.

3. We are not all equal and/or protected under the government of the US. Our files aren't locked, but some REALLY stupid politician has locked files. Like the fact that those elected to state/federal office get LIFETIME government healthcare, while the rest of us rot. Ad infinitum...

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with looking to see IF a file is locked. What is wrong and punishable should be if the locked file was violated. Which it has not been.

LizTx

10/8/2011 00:50:44

I've been hoping that someone would have standing to sue Sarah. It's amazing what can be revealed in the discovery process. A very good friend of mine filed a medical malpractice suit about 20 years ago. She was injured on the job and her medical care was botched. The insurance company's lawyer asked if she had ever given birth. She admitted that she had a child when she was in her teens and the child was adopted. The lawyer demanded the full medical records of the child, then an adult who had no idea that he had been adopted. That had nothing to do with my friend's injuries to her legs.To spare her child, my friend abandoned the lawsuit. That's an example of how far a discovery can go and that's why Sarah only threatens to sue people. But if someone sues her, well she wouldn't be in control of the process.

curiouser

10/8/2011 00:52:56

Caligirl - All that's needed for there to be a file is to have a social security number. Everyone with an SSN has a file in the database, whether or not they pay social security taxes or receive benefits. Personal information--name, birth date, etc. may be all that's in the file.

SouthPaw

10/8/2011 00:55:08

Ottoline says... "I become more convinced with every new incident that we have a MSM blackout on this story -- not because of Palin but because of who else will be involved once it starts to unravel. The owners of the MSM, for one. McCain and his senior staff. The hard-to-prove Dominionist connection. All this seems worse to me than Watergate, in terms of who is involved and their power to deny info to us in the MSM."

It's a straight line to McCain hence his daughter tight lips.

Keep digging don't give up.

Cracklin Charlie

10/8/2011 00:58:29

lilly lily,

Bingo! It IS a farce and the players are devoted to obfuscation on this topic. Clouding the issue of babygate is a time-honored tradition. Please, people, let's boil down this cauldron of witch's brew.

Look at the photos that we can date conclusively. There are two photos that we can use. In each photo the infant pictured is approximately one year old. Subtract one year from the date of the photo, and you should have the child's approximate birth date.

Photo #1 - Trig at the RNC/August 2008
Photo #2 - Tripp in television interview with Matt Lauer/April 2009

Approximate birthdate:

Trig - August 2007
Tripp - April 2008

1Guesttoday

10/8/2011 01:15:15

OK. Wikileaks is re-organizing their website and are not accepting submissions, but will do so soon. THEN we can submit this info (and everything else), and then sit back and wait for what hopefully will happen.

Viola-Alex

10/8/2011 01:28:32

Great diplomacy, FrostyAK. YOu are usually so alaskany, but your most recent comment is elegant and wise. Thank you.

mxm

10/8/2011 01:53:32

The expenses associated with a premature infant can be staggering. Add in a few complications and few if any insurance plans provide sufficient coverage. SSI, state programs or Medicaid are the only way that 99% of American families can get by. In my experience Cyn is right on. A social worker immediately prepares a series of applications and statements of need for the parents to sign so the benefits can be applied for immediately.

10/8/2011 01:55:36

Cyn, the flurry of "OMG you're in BIG trouble!" posts reminds me a bit of the flurry of replies when I posted about my own sleuthing via the SSDI databases. It was a different situation because the SSDI is public record; it's the tone and immediately of the "concern troll" response that seem similar.
But, speaking of which, I have had a bit of time to go back to my own sleuthing, and something interesting turned up already: one key date -- the birthdate of one candidate infant -- is different than it was a month ago. I really don't think I'm misremembering because 1) I took notes, and 2) the original date struck me because it's one of my own kids' birth dates. MeAgain said that my first post had Palin texting like a teenager in church -- could she have pulled strings to "correct" the records in the database? At a minimum that name just got a whole lot more interesting.
Which brings me to a question that will sound random, but isn't: back when the Palin emails were released, there was talk on the blogs of an email from a teenage boy who had written a fan email to Palin, commenting on how quickly she had gone back to work after the birth of her "third daughter." I think it was March 2008 or thereabouts. Does anyone remember that email? Or any of the details about it -- like the name of the boy? Can anyone manage to find it again? I have a recollection of the name but have not managed to find the email again. I'm hoping someone with a better memory might be able to help!

FrostyAK

10/8/2011 01:56:03

@V-A Umm, thanks? Not sure exactly how to take "Alaskany"... it did make me smile though, so it's all good.

An analogy. If I walk up to your house, see it is locked and alarmed, then I walk away - am I violating anything? I have done nothing illegal, unless you have posted the property with no trespassing signs. (that's Alaskan wisdom for ya - we have a LOT of those signs)

So, anyone who has the intestinal fortitude to do the actual sleuthing has my total respect. If it were not for such people, there would never be any TRUE news reported on any medium.

colacarat

10/8/2011 02:05:22

comeonpeople 16:16:24,

Thank you for the new update on the date of the rapture. I intend to do a lot of shopping and charging this weekend.

Viola-Alex

10/8/2011 02:07:24

Frosty, I meant it warmly. Only I think it's properly spelled Alaskanny. :)

Ottoline

10/8/2011 02:10:42

I think some of the other posters were trying to say that this is not an issue for logic, it's a matter of what you might have signed agreement to, or company (or SSA) policy. The "need to know" rules are pretty explicit re classified material, and I bet they are for these files.

Remember the hospital workers who opened the files of two famous people at the hospital? A year or so ago? The were fired because of how their rules work.

We just don't want Cyn to get into huge trouble that could cost her her livelihood.

Cyn

10/8/2011 02:21:58

TGIF I just got home from. I haven't read all the comments yet, but I will start answering some questions.
The fact she ran for VP, is not the reason for the lock. Except for POTUS the locks on FBI,CIA and others is really just a holdover from the cold-war and pre internet days.
The lock is permanent, I don't for sure if another AK GOV can unlock her file. I would guess no.

Anyone who has an SS# has a file, Ottoline you are correct about the content. The file also contains past employers address's and citizenship status.
@Anon55 Yes.
Someone asked when the lock was put in place, the notation stated status change 01/2008.

I will keep reading and answer what I can.

NSG

10/8/2011 02:48:22

New post from MeAgain. She was impressed by Cyn's post & discovery, too! Also, an interesting appeal to CBJ at the end...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
7:02PM,
I really will try to answer your questions soon. The air in the valley has had what I can only describe as a "dank" quality to it this week and I think it's exaggerated a touch of bronchitis I had. I was feeling the kind of "sick" where you know you should just rest a day and let your body heal...but instead I kept working even harder, telling myself to shake it off, power through, and so on. Of course NOW it feels like I'm dying and I'm forced to rest. Oy vey, self.

Anyway, I promise to give your questions a good think and I'll also have my source go over them as she returns tomorrow. My answers will be mostly opinion based I'm afraid, but she may actually know something especially about why the full-time staff is kept.

7:08PM, I went and looked at that, and...um... forgive my indelicate response but "holy sh*t!!!"

That is something concrete and serious, not photos or witness accounts which nonbelievers will just tell themselves have been modified, photoshopped, and so on...but an actual piece of hard evidence which could really be used to the advantage of people like Gryphen, Laura, and Brad.

It's all the more interesting because in pre-election "interviews", remember Sarah was asked if she would release her medical records and she said something along the lines of "yep...no problem...people will see I'm healthy, happy, had five kids..."

What I'd be interested to see is what date that "alert" was put on the file compared to what date (October 2008 is when I believe she said it) she said "no problem" in regard to having her medical records released.

CBJ, if you're reading this, and I strongly believe you are, I would seriously think about saving yourself, jump from the sinking boat. You KNOW if it came down to it, she wouldn't think twice about taking you down with her...again.

-MeAgain

10/8/2011 02:50:04

Interesting date for the status to have changed. Is there any conceivable reason why it would have changed BEFORE "Trig" was born (and well before she was tapped by McCain)? By "Trig" I mean the infant that most of us believe was born to Bristol in late 2007 or early 2008.
Cyn, if you haven't seen it, I've used the SSDI to explore the hypothesis that Ruffles was born some time prior to 4/08, and died some time after 6/08. The possible birth date that just got more interesting is 12/12/2007. The 2007 family "Christmas" photo shows Bristol sporting a 3-4 month baby bump on 9/14/2007. If that baby was born on 12/12 it would have been at 6-7 months -- consistent with anon432's report that he was "startlingly premature."
All of this might mean nothing: we don't know what happened to Ruffles, and hope he/she is alive and well somewhere, hopefully far away from the toxic Palin crew. But it does start to get interesting.

10/8/2011 02:53:43

Cyn, thank you for doing this but be careful.

Is there a way to alter the lock date?

mxm

10/8/2011 02:56:16

Cyn, interesting date for the file lock. Based on the accumulated chronology that I have maintained, it has long been my belief that Bristol gave birth either Dec 2007 or early Jan 2008.

This would coincide with the commenter who reported a 'startlingly premature' delivery. It would not be out of the question at all for such a baby to be hospitalized in a NICU and progress to step-down for a period of 3-4 months.

And that baby could still be tiny and fragile looking in early May. Just like Ruffles.

Cyn

10/8/2011 02:57:04

Gustav, I do not work for SSA, I am not a federal employee. I did not read any one's file, I just looked to see if a lock was in place. I have not crossed the line yet and I have no plans to do so.
Breaking the password on Palins file would be impossible for me to do. The passwords are generated randomly by the system and probably one person knows it. Even, Palin has no idea what it is.

10/8/2011 03:02:10

mxm, does the date 12/12/2007 ring any particular bells?

mxm

10/8/2011 03:03:10

jk,

Our dating coincides. And also allows for the video that captured Todd, Piper, Bristol hustling in to the church for Christmas service. She was post-partum and pregnant during that trot across the ice. But she was very self-conscious and recognized that she was being caught by a camera and tried again with hands in pockets to conceal her post-partum belly.

mxm

10/8/2011 03:06:06

jk,

I have no notes for that date.

physicsmom

10/8/2011 03:13:20

This is interesting information, but I'm afraid we have run wildly off the rails when people start suggesting illegal activity to access more information. No, I wouldn't be willing to lose my job over this hoax, nor do I think anyone should try it. Pumping SSA employees for more information is another tack, I guess, but probably futile. There has to be another way to attack this veil of secrecy directly, while only involving the unethical participants and not causing any collateral damage. As stated earlier, Cyn may already be in trouble for even checking to see if other governor's files were locked. Let's keep looking elsewhere.

10/8/2011 03:13:31

Any indication of the goings-on on Planet Palin before or after 12/12?
Re: the video, I think there's a typo in your post: "she was post-partum NOT pregnant"? But now that you mention it I do remember that video, and was also struck by it at the time. Does anyone know where to find it?

NSG

10/8/2011 03:16:01

Cyn--

First, thanks for this clearly interesting addition.

Second, a thought. Assuming it would pose no risk for you to do so, maybe you should try to get a screen-grab of the listing, lock & status change date? Seeing as some stuff has had a history of being disappeared and all.

Thanks again for doing the work and sharing it!

Monique

10/8/2011 03:16:46

Hmmmm? Is this a 'legit' post? Can you explain how you came across the Palin's doing a non-related search? Will there be no action taken against you for this search, or would that only take place if you attempted to guess the password? I'm not a fan of Palin, but have a hard time taking this post to be 'fact'. Also, too.

Remember the email in the Palin email dump requesting Trig's birth certificate so he can be added to the state insurance? Is that normal? Or a natural born child automatically covered/added?

Joie Vouet

10/8/2011 03:27:43

jk @1913, If I recall correctly that video (Bristol running on the way to church) was from December 2008.

How can anyone confirm what "Cyn" has written?

mxm

10/8/2011 03:34:17

jk, I can't find the video, but as I think about it --- it was from Dec 2008, and she didn't appear to be pregnant, In 2007 no one would have cared to tape the family. In 2008 they were celebs.

SLQ

10/8/2011 03:35:29

Monique: Yes, it is normal to ask for the birth certificate to enroll a new family member (birth, marriage, adoption, etc.) No, a natural born child is not automatically covered.

This was covered in depth in Palinoia's guest post about Insurance Coverage.

10/8/2011 03:38:48

mxm, I think our wires got crossed. I'm wondering about 12/12/2007 as a possible birthdate for Ruffles.

FrostyAK

10/8/2011 03:48:54

Has anyone else noticed how so many of the 'concern' posts are prefaced with "I'm not a fan of Palin, but"?

I'm not a fan of palin PERIOD, no buts about it. As my grandmother (born in the 19th century) used to say "but me no buts". Don't ask me what exactly it meant, but it sure got our attention.

crapola

10/8/2011 03:52:22

cyn -doesn't matter if you are not a Federal employee or SSA employee. You are considered a contractor under Code of Federal Regulations, Title 20, Section 401.

Specifically, Subsection 404.2212
The State or alternate participant shall comply with the provisions for confidentiality of information, including the security of systems, and records requirements described in 20 CFR part 401 and pertinent written guidelines

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foia/bluebook/System%20of%20Records%20Notice%2060%200219.htm

Safeguards: We retain paper and electronic files with personal identifiers in secure storage areas accessible only to our authorized employees and contractors. We limit access to data with personal identifiers from this system to only authorized personnel who have a need for the information in the performance of their official duties. We annually provide all of our employees and contractors with appropriate security awareness training that includes reminders about the need to protect personally identifiable information and the criminal penalties that apply to unauthorized access to, or disclosure of, personally identifiable information. See 5 U.S.C. § 552a(i)(l). Employees and contractors with access to databases maintaining personally identifiable information must sign a sanction document annually, acknowledging their accountability for inappropriately accessing or disclosing such information.

ACCOUNTABILITY FOR INAPPROPRIATELY ACCESSING - do you get that part? Still think you haven't crossed a line?

Cyn

10/8/2011 03:53:11

@Anon55 Your post "If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny." Says it all. The nerve of that women and her Death Panels BS. She has done so much damage to this country,

@JK Yes all she would need to do, is write a letter with the correction.

I wish the concerned would take it someplace else. If it causes so much worry and concern don't read it. 99% of you don't have a clue.

10/8/2011 03:58:32

AKRNC

No one shoved anyone anywhere. I supposed you are going to protest ANY candidate whose families join them on the DNC and RNC stages in the future, as well as rallies. HUH?

Thought so..

Your hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING. Can the Palins help it if America finds them interesting? If they werent YOU wouldnt stalk them and random people across the country wouldnt befriend them and their cousins.

Jealous much? If you'd open your mind and not believe every lie you read, you'd like them too. GUARANTEED. You won't find more genuine, accepting people. But not if you're a disgusting hater who trashes people you don't know.

SLQ

10/8/2011 04:03:59

The trolls are so stale. Blah blah jealous blah blah hater blah blah people you don't know blah blah.

Flashback to 7th grade.

jaybo

10/8/2011 04:04:19

December 12, 2007. Vogue Magazine photo shoot or reshoot for the article "Sarah Palin: Altered State" which was in Feb 2008 issue.

The one where she is in the snow leaning against a red and white airplane and wearing no glasses. Not even four years ago. The years have not been kind to her.

Cyn

10/8/2011 04:07:17

You are welcome Laura, and thank you for all you did.

10/8/2011 04:18:53

hey BK, how can we miss you if you won't go away?

NotAHater

10/8/2011 04:31:17

So...it seems lilBristol's worst insult is to call someone a "hater". Why is it that every time I see a post slamming the "haters", I think lilBristol has struck again?

AliCat

10/8/2011 04:34:32

@Searh4more

Thanks for those pictures. I was looking at the other pics and find the one with Todd holding a baby very interesting. It might be Ruffles. Check out that baby's ear. The caption says it is from the campaign. It looks to be a in a RV of some kind. I hope it is Ruffles, at least we would know he is ok.

http://tinyurl.com/3vgnplx

@Cracklin Charlie

I agree with the you on the approx. birth dates of Trig and Tripp.
Trig - August 2007
Tripp - April 2008
I do not think Bristol was pregnant at all during the campaign. I think both Sarah and Bristol had to fake a pregnancy.

10/8/2011 04:52:48

The disinformation trolls are out once again.
1) The Tripp we see on the cover of People magazine in June 2009 was not 1+ year old; the Tripp we see in In Touch magazine in 1/2010 was not 18+ months old. The Tripp we saw a month or so ago was exactly average height for a child born 12/08.
2) The "new" photo of Todd is not exactly helpful; I can't tell anything about the ear.
3) The question is not where Ruffles was in 8/08, but where he/she is now.

rubbernecking

10/8/2011 05:14:23

Social Security Administration has special handling procedures for people in a "Celebrity" File.

http://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-08-08-28118.pdf

The SSA is responsible for determining who is a celebrity and providing adequate safe-guards for their personal data.

The locks on Palin's data do not prove wrong-doing. The "lock with alert" indicates that the SSA knows which records are more likely to receive non-business related views.

FYI: An SSA call center agent was sentenced to 12 months in prison for accessing SSA databases for non-business reasons. The agent did not sell the data or use it to commit other crimes; he used the system to look up information about his girlfriends. http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200915265.pdf

AliCat

10/8/2011 05:56:21

@jk
I am entitled to my opinion with out being called a troll. Rude.

For anyone else that would like to take a look, this pic is of Trig on stage with Sarah & Bristol
http://tinyurl.com/3h9234h

And I see a big difference between this baby's ears compared to the one above.
http://tinyurl.com/3vgnplx

Cracklin Charlie

10/8/2011 06:17:35

jk,

Are you calling me a troll? The photos that you reference could have been taken at any time, and put on display as needed. And I think you might be judging the ages of the children incorrectly. The photos that I listed can be conclusively dated. There is a difference.
AliCat,
You are so right about the two women both having to fake a pregnancy. That had not occurred to me before.

Banyan

10/8/2011 06:52:15

@Cyn and jk and mxm (and likeminded others):

Can't write much now, but am amazed at the detective work you are all doing! Thank you!!!!

Do proceed carefully, but ignore the concern trolls. You, Laura, Brad, Gryphen, Audrey, Bree, Floyd et al. are true patriots!

I think the late 2007 - early 2008 date is important because it may reveal the long-standing nature of the hoax, and the complex level of planning that went into it. I mean, who would put a lock on SSI records just for a teen out-of-wedlock pregnancy? This is something far more sinister and political.

The GOP/Dominionists handlers of the plot probably put the hold in place, not the Palins themselves (who are notoriously incompetent). These handlers may have been the same people who scrubbed all the AK computers. Your info suggests they were out there, hard at work, earlier than most of us previously expected.

I'm in awe of your sleuthing skills and am cheering you on!

MO Inkslinger

10/8/2011 06:55:07

While a FOIA request might bring you the information regarding Palin, someone making a FOIA might be in line to request who authorizaed the file to the closed and who placed the alert and closed the file. This requested information should not outrageous.

search4more

10/8/2011 07:29:33

I haven't read the most recent comments yet. Sorry. I just remembered something which I thought could be relevant to your discussion about whether it is dangerous to look at these records, so I thought I'd write this.

My understanding is that the US has developed a totally out of control security system post 9/11. Something like 1 million people have access to secure information. I believe that came out in both the wikileaks case and there has recently been an article in the washingtonpost and now a book (the author was recently on Real Time with Bill Maher) about it.

Anyway my point is that 1 in 310 of your fellow citizens my have some kind of special access to social security data and the rules for them might be different. this is just speculation on my part. I know nothing really. :-)

Tada

10/8/2011 08:17:46

@Cyn: Not sure if you saw my question in a prior comment; Is the database you have access to searchable by a combination of last name and date-of-birth? If the answer to that is yes, would a search of 'Palin' + '04/18/08' list any and all persons with last name Palin born on that date including those with locked files? If the answer to that is yes, are you legally able to perform such a search and willing to reveal to us if 'Trig Palin' or any Palin show up in the search results? If no person named Palin shows up on that list, then we have all the evidence we need to prove that Palin did NOT give birth on 04/18/08. If you are legally able to do this, please make A screen-grab of it (the search results - not any attempt to open any files, which would not be needed).

10/8/2011 09:44:05

SLQ
Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:03:59
The trolls are so stale. Blah blah jealous blah blah hater blah blah people you don't know blah blah.

Flashback to 7th grade.

----

The only person worthy of being called an immature 7th grader is you and your petty comments. It's sad when you think mature comments are immature. Who are the people who taught you to hate people you don't know?

10/8/2011 09:46:08

You're all dense. "ruffles" (what a name. How sweet you guys are) is Trig.

Molly

10/8/2011 09:47:06

BK. You need to expand your vocabulary. You are getting tiresome.

10/8/2011 09:48:03

Alicat,

Newsflash, anyone who shows human decency, common sense, and positive thought i called a troll.

Negativity and immaturity are the only things anti-Palin people know.

10/8/2011 09:53:55

3) The question is not where Ruffles was in 8/08, but where he/she is now.

----

um, THIS is the famed Triggybear (I will not play your name game mocking an alleged ear condition)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=222140624512064&set=a.110796025646525.13741.109696302423164&type=1&ref=nf

There is ONE Trig.

Dan in Richmond

10/8/2011 11:03:14

Please explain the "non-related search" that brought you to the Palin family file. I mean... that's a heck of a coincidence, isn't it?

search4more

10/8/2011 13:01:06

Another thought:

It seems likely that any premature baby involved was at Providence. The staff there can't talk, but that's not true for all the parents and visitors there. The question then becomes who had a premature baby there between Dec-Feb 2008? Since birth announcements generally have weights in them it seems to me that it should be possible to work out many of the people that could have been witnesses.

Just an idea. I'm off to watch the Formula 1 qualifying.

London Bridges

10/8/2011 13:13:27

The lock file info is really a dead end.

What should be investigated is whether the child we know know as Trig has ever received Supplemental Security Income (SSI) Disability benefits. This could have occurred regardless of whether Sarah, Bristol or someone else were birth parents, if the child were hospitalized at birth for several months. In this instance, parental income and resources would not be considered as the child would not be considered living with parents.

The value of this would be evidence of a date of birth other that the established April 18, 2008 (or whatever date Sarah used in her hoax.).

The Wasilla zip code is 99654. This is Social Security's annual systems shutdown weekend, but the Zip Code will tell us on Monday or Tuesday the Social Security office that processes Wasilla SSI claims.

A local may be friends of one or more office employees. Revealing that Trig did get SSI would be a minor infraction if it did not involve systems access or file access- e.g. everyone in the office knew about that.

Another possibility: the post office. Do the Palins have a post office box in Wasilla? Is mail delivered to the compound? Ask the appropriate postal worker (in private "off the record") if they recall seeing numerous letters addressed to Sarah, Todd or Bristol FROM the Social Security Administration. No one gets multiple letters from SSA unless they are aplying for or receiving some sort of Social Security program benefits.

Once Trig came home from the hospital, his SSI benefits would have likely stopped due to parental income and resources, though Bristol's income would have come after Candies and child support, etc.

So a secondary question to ask would be "when" did the letters stop?

Since the Palins are All American grifters, there is a likelihood that with their sense of enttlement that Trig was overpaid and having to deal with the grifters would have been a major topic of conversation at the Social Security office.

Thus if Trig received SSI = earlier than elleged birth date = proven.

Joie Vouet

10/8/2011 13:31:56

Cyn, In a comment in an earlier post, you mentioned the lock and said something like you would only, "write this once." What changed your mind?

I don't remember which post it was -- recent -- but cannot find the comment now.

comeonpeople

10/8/2011 14:08:27

Oh for dog's sake concerned people, CYN did not access any files.
BK really needs a broader world view,needs to get out, live a little, travel, see the world. Meet people from diverse backgrounds and experiences.
No one here is jealous of Sarah, her brain, her kids, her looks or her husband.
Also BK: Can you tell us if Sarah has any remorse for (accidently of course) naming Tri-G another name for DS. Trygve means "brave victory" or "trustworthy" in old Norse. Tri-G means DS. Is she appalled by her naming gaffe?

SLQ

10/8/2011 14:24:05

Update: The trolls are so stale and repetitive. Blah blah jealous blah blah hater blah blah people you don't know blah blah immature blah blah.

rubbernecking

10/8/2011 14:33:56

@Cyn's area of expertise is Medicaid coverage for newborns. Why aren't we asking her follow-up questions in this area?

I posted a link that **proves** the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) recognizes the need to protect celebrity information in SSA databases. We don't know what mechanisms the OIG uses to recognize someone as a celebrity. There may be some automatic detection based on some types of media coverage. Maybe the profile in the fashion magazine Vogue got Palin flagged as a celebrity in Jan 2008.

I am concerned that commenters may be encouraging people to engage in behavior without informed knowledge of the actual risks. I also posted a link to a court decision that showed that the government's definition of "unauthorized access" can cover a wide set of activities in SSA databases.

src: http://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-08-08-28118.pdf - Note that OIG restricts access to the full report. The general public is not entitled to know exactly how celebrity info is protected.

Rationalist

10/8/2011 14:37:21

Cyn - is Tada correct?

10/8/2011 14:57:38

SLQ, indeed :) . But I think the trolls come in various flavors, some more subtle than others. They come out when important clues pop up, clues that get us closer to the truth. Truth vampires.
And then there probably are people who are not trolls per se, but are emotionally attached to pet theories that simply don't hold up. (Yes, the Palins can distribute old photos, etc, but professional photographers for People and In Touch know what photos they take, and when.)
As for the photo of Trig on stage with Palin, the RNC shots of Trig in the blue-black jumper to my eye prove this was the same baby as "blue-sweater Trig," who we only saw because of the email hacking (I.e., we were not supposed to see this photo.) If anyone else can make out the infant's ear in the photo with Todd, your eyes are better than mine. But again it's irrelevant. I believe the last known sighting of Ruffles* was 8/29/2008: an infant in Bristol's arms, with a very oddly shaped, probably repaired, ear. BK, sorry you don't like it -- well, okay, I'm not really sorry, but Ruffles is a term of endearment the community has adopted for a sweet infant who the world saw, and then didn't see. We would call him or her by name if we knew it, but we don't. We do worry about what happened to this baby. Somebody ought to, don't you think?

rubbernecking

10/8/2011 15:22:12

When a very widely read blog like Andrew Sullivan highlights a post here, it will attract a new set of readers and commenters. These people will have different levels of knowledge and interest.

Using the SSA database to fact-check a public person's autobiography will attract controversy and scrutiny. Controversy does not guarantee that anyone is "closer to the truth."

lilly lily

10/8/2011 15:24:47

Sounds like a lot of Catch 22's as to accessing info, when you aren't allowed to know what is restricted, if my reading of Mr. Charley is correct.

The general public is not allowed to know? Catch 22. And if you try to gain access for reasons of outing a total fraud, or revealing the phony soap opera, leaking for weeks faked pregnancy of a certain unnamed "worse governor evah" you go straight to Jail? Monopoly. But it isn't Monopoly money here, it is hundreds of thousands, even millions.

I thought I could drop the entire bizarre matter once a certain bi polar lady stepped out of the race, but she hasn't stepped out. She is merely trying to open other doors to bully and shove her way through. Breaking through and crashing parties is what she does.

As far as Brooklyn, I don't care how many ways fairy tale trolls blabber that the Palins are the happiest of happy families and should have complete respect or privacy because they are so wonderful. I only object when she hi- jacks my name. As she has done over and over again on many blogs. Most people who are regulars know it isn't me, but others do. I've had my e-mail hacked enough to resent hi-jacking.

lilly lily

10/8/2011 15:33:25

As far as Ruffles.

It is a term of endearment for most who are concerned about his or her whereabouts. If it is rented, fine. If he or she has died, well a different story entirely.

That baby we called Ruffles for lack of its true name is missing.

Any one who knows the infant "Ruffles", now 3-4 year old whereabouts is silent.

lilly lily

10/8/2011 15:46:17

As far as rented infants. Didn't Sarah Palin say in her pack of lies that she called her first memoirs, that Bristol suggested renting babies, because she was so baby crazed?

A nugget of truth in a pack of lies?

Beaglemom

10/8/2011 15:59:48

Our former governor, Jennifer Granholm, recently sent an email to supporters updating what she has been doing since leaving office (note: she did not quit but served two full terms). She included information about her three children about whom no one knew anything except for the annual family Christmas photo that supporters received. Eldest daughter has graduated from college, second daughter is in college and teen-aged son is in high school. Other than the Christmas photo, the vast majority of people in Michigan would never have known that our governor had children. She was a professional through and through.

Now, if Sarah Palin had kept her family out of the public eye, there would be a lot less interest in their comings and goings. If Sarah Palin had not faked a pregnancy, there would be no interest in her children. If Sarah Palin had gone back to Alaska in November 2008, finished her term as governor, and stayed out of the media, there would be no interest in her or her family at all.

In fact, most of us wish that she she had gone back to Alaska and left the rest of the country alone. Her rhetoric and the media's lapping it up has caused a lot of problems to those who are trying to resolve the very real issues ordinary Americans face every day.

Laura Novak link

10/8/2011 16:08:15

Thank you, Frosty, for that great analogy, and to Cyn for explaining further what is clear in the post: Cyn walked up to a door, saw a big, unusual lock and walked away. Cyn typed a name into a database, saw a major league lock, and walked away. That is her post, end of story.

Any talk of breaking into files, stealing information, sharing information or selling information is NOT allowed on my blog. Take it somewhere else.

The date of the change of status on the file (on the outside of the file) is interesting indeed. She had already been governor for quite some time.

Beyond that, Cyn is saying that the password is so complex - and rightly so! - that the family's file is protected. Rightly so.

No more talk of penetrating this file further. And FWIW, I know a doctor who went into a health system's database to see if someone he knew was a patient. He was. To enter the file would have electronically registered the doctor's name. So, he did not enter the file b/c he had no professional reason to be in it.

Cyn did not enter the file. That was not the mission. That was also impossible.

(note Cyn did NOT enter any of the unlocked files either.)

Thank you Cyn.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 16:13:57

So many interesting details here....

I'm not sure if the "lock" means anything nefarious, other than, conveniently, every family member's Date of Birth is hidden from view.

The one thing I would point out is:

SSI benefits require an APPLICATION and signature of parent, it doesn't just automatically happen. And it may have required additional documentation be provided, and this stuff doesn't happen as soon as baby pops out (even if Chuck is there, lol). It does happen relatively soon, but not day of generally.

My point being: If Sarah had designs on co-opting Trig relatively soon after birth THAT would be a HUGE hang up in applying for any government programs due to the dreaded Date-Of-Birth / birth certificate requirement. If she tried to keep the circle of people in the know to the absolute minimum, then it is highly likely applying for SSI/Medicaid would have invited additional bodies into the mix. So, I'm still on the fence as to whether or not Medicaid via SSI benefit collection was available to cover the hospital bills.

Still thinking this over, more later.....

Eerie Indiana

10/8/2011 16:17:00

Lilly,

supposedly, when Bristol was about 9, she asked her mom that if she didn't have another baby she needed to rent her (Bristol) one for her birthday. Both Sarah and Bristol mentioned this in their books. Given who Bristol is, I can believe it.

Eerie Indiana

10/8/2011 16:20:37

Beaglemom,

That's weird that no one in your state knew your Gov had kids. Every state I've lived in, all the local politicians from city to Gov have their kids and the kids' friends in commercials and on street corners, at fairs and at schools supporting their parent running for office.

I don't discourage this practice, as it shows family unity to me. But then again, I lived in a state capital for 13 years.

Lilly

10/8/2011 16:22:25

jk is DElusional.

Laura Novak link

10/8/2011 16:26:55

Palinoia, thanks for your in put on this. Glad to see you here. Your knowledge is helpful and well worth discussing. This is good food for thought.

Beaglemom, I know. I didn't even know the names of Arnold's kids. I knew he had them, but that was it. (well, now of course we know about ALL of them!) Granholm, same thing. Even Romney. Five boys, I believe, but names? Ages? I have no idea. Simply that they are highly educated.

Brooklyn is out in many guises this morning. Please don't engage.

Ottoline

10/8/2011 16:38:29

Does anyone wonder what this is supposed to mean in MA's last message: "she wouldn't think twice about taking you down with her...again."

lilly lily

10/8/2011 16:42:28

I see BK or Brooklyn is back to using Lilly. and other variations.

LOL. Sarah is so finished. Get another hobby.

Perhaps I should use another of my internet names here and ditch my lilly lily since you like it so much. Lilly St Regis, Lilly Anne, Lilly pop and now Lilly.

Ottoline

10/8/2011 17:03:03

Andrew Sullivan says he is done with the PalinHoax:
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/10/no-more-trig.html

NSG

10/8/2011 17:08:47

Hey, Ottoline--

I read that, too, and was concerned. I'm grateful that Sullivan's been a rare mainstream voice asking the questions, and I don't believe for a minute that his/our work is done just because she's not running this year.

But then he wrote more about Palin in recent days, including linking to this post of Cyn's -- all after he wrote the "No More Trig" post.

So hopefully he's not completely done!

Viola-Alex

10/8/2011 17:24:57

THank you again, Cyn, for daring to step forward. You remind me of what investigative reporting used to be before reporters got lazy and began to sit at computers all day. What Brad wrote is so true. The old days were flatfooting it, hanging out in parking lots, buying drinks, and making sources happen. It's what Joe did in AK.

Now, it seems, that kind of hard work and sleuthing makes us nervous. OOOOOOO, the boogie man will get us. OOOOOO, that lady is unethical. OOOOOOO, I have no business knowing what the internet doesn't want me to know.

Laura is an old school reporter. This blog is her beat. She built a place where smart, involved and professional people can ethically share what they know, from their various perspectives.

If that makes you nervous, then GOOD. Because all of us should be nervous, to some degree. Daring to question authority is more than writing harsh comments on a blog. Sometimes it means, as Derrick Bell said, Standing Up and Speaking Out.

Laura has assured us that Cyn did no wrong, and I trust her. And since you don't know who Cyn is, what her job is, and what her position entails, please stop telling her what to do. Or not do. If you want to be helpful here, comment on how Cyn's action makes you feel, but don't judge the Messenger.

Thank you, Cyn. Thank you, Laura. Thank you, Brad.

Viola-Alex

10/8/2011 17:27:10

Oh, and thank you Frosty! Your Alaskan analogy (the locked house) is brilliant. You made everything perfectly clear.

anonfornow

10/8/2011 17:29:33

I've come to the conclusion that the Palins and their bots must be eaten up with jealousy; why else are they constantly accusing anyone who dislikes Sarah of being motivated by jealousy? It's so odd. I may admire the former Kate Middleton for her beauty and grace, but I am not jealous of her. I admired Steve Jobs for his brilliance and his vision, and I while I might wish I had a bit more of those attributes, I was never jealous of him.

Hollywood is full of women far more beautiful than Sarah; if I were the type to be jealous of anyone, they're the ones I'd focus on. Sarah's recently acquired millions may loom large in the eyes of Wasilla trash, but are laughable compared to many, many others. Again, if I were the jealous type, I'd focus my envy on the Kochs, the Waltons, the Jobbs, the Gates of the world.

So what does that leave? We're supposed to be jealous of her screwed up kids who never went to college? Or her dropout trashy husband who preys on vulnerable women and traffics with whores? Um, no. Personally, I am very proud of my brilliant, beautiful professional children, and I dearly love my devoted, brilliant, loving husband. As for her career...well, she's on a downward spiral.

It would never occur to me to say that someone who dislikes me is jealous of me. But then, we tend to assume others are like us.

Balzafiar

10/8/2011 17:52:14

@Ottoline, -MeAgain may have been referring to the fact that CBJ gave up her privileges at MatSu after Trig's "birth".

No one knows if that was CBJ's personal decision or not, but I think they were revoked due to her involvement in the hoax.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 18:08:22

And then there was Ruffles...........

So, let's set straight how one qualifies for SSI benefits so there isn't misinterpretation.

# 1: Regardless of disability, you still HAVE to qualify based on income, period. So, in order for a disabled child under age 18 to qualify for SSI benefits, TWO things have to be determined:

A) Does child's income / resources qualify them?

B) Does the child meet the SSI definition of being totally disabled?

In absence of one or the other, then no SSI benefits are payable and furthermore, if there are no SSI benefits then there is NO automatic Medicaid coverage. One can still qualify for Medicaid even if they aren't SSI eligible, but it isn't "automatic" like it is if you DO qualify for SSI.

Some conditions will automatically qualify the child as disabled, Down Syndrome and low birth weight being two of them. Because these conditions are "automatic" disabilities in SSA's eyes, the disability determination process is MUCH shorter, and payments can be made immediately, but only if A) income eligibility is also determined. Even if you have a child that meets the "instant" version of disability, they still may not collect if they exceed the income/assets limit.

So, why do I mention Ruffles at the beginning? Well, we have at least two camps out there - Ruffles was the rent a baby, and Trig as we know him now, was always the original Trig. Or, Ruffles was the real Trig, and the Trig we know now was acquired / a twin / or ???.

If Ruffles was the original baby, I don't think he was "obviously" a Down Baby without further determination via testing. He could very well have been FAS, or just premature with ear defects and/or a failure to thrive. If he was FAS / non-Down's at least initially before further testing, the SSI disability determination can take anywhere from 3-5 months and there are no SSI payments made immediately as there would be if he had one of the "automatic" disabilities and it was known right at the outset.

So, that may have left unpaid hospital bills by the time determination was made. I don't know that we will EVER know for sure how it all worked out. We are still left with an implausible birth story, many contradictions, and a shape shifting Sarah Palin, who by all accounts, was NOT pregnant in 2008.

At the root of all this: a birth certificate with a date of birth (and possibly parent names) that DON'T match the birth story. Talk about painting yourself into a corner.

It leaves me SO angry that we are still here 3 years later still waiting for the TRUTH surrounding Trig's birth. At this point, there are MANY people to hold accountable for this travesty now, not just Sarah, although Sarah could still easily just produce a birth certificate, except that she can't. At least not one with correct dating and possibly parent names on it.

lazrgrl link

10/8/2011 18:31:04

@Eerie Indiana

Not you got me curious- I just looked up my governor's bio (CT) to see if he had any children. (Yes, three)

Brad Scharlott

10/8/2011 18:31:11

Thank YOU, VA!

10/8/2011 18:42:18

Laura, I know, I know: troll baiting is not constructive in the scheme of things. It's just that some chains are SO begging to be yanked ;)
But in my better moments I can still find some measure of compassion for Bristol. I now have two leading babygate theories: Banyan's, and a 2nd one that combines elements of theories we've heard before, with a few details fleshed out based on my research. (Will post it soon: gotta write it up first.) If either is true then Bristol would be left dealing with some SERIOUS emotional sh*t; not hard to see why she would be lashing out wildly at anyone who hits too close to the bone. I might have my hard-a$$ tendencies, but at the end of the day she is a fellow human being who did not ask to be born into and consumed by the Palin vortex. She might have gotten the house, the DWTS gig, the reality show, the nannies, and more expensive cars than I've ever driven; doesn't make up for the kind of emotional sh*t that can destroy a person. I hope she gets help, starting with following her big brother's lead and busting free of the vortex.

Cyn

10/8/2011 18:54:23

Palinola I am sorry but your #1 is wrong. The disabled child can be eligible for Medicaid but not SSI. You are correct SSI takes income into consideration,Medicaid not always with a newborn. The reasons are outlined in my post.

10/8/2011 18:55:30

Does anyone here know what the process is re: starting a social security file for a child given up for adoption at birth?

A poster on the IM Broomfield/ MA thread theorized that Palin locked the file herself to keep the GOP VP vetters from finding out @ the pregnancy.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 19:04:06

@ Cyn,

I think maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote/meant. Later in my post I pointed out that even though one may not qualify for SSI, they could still qualify for Medicaid.

The short version is: Income AND disability are the determinants for SSI benefits, and if approved for SSI, then they automatically get Medicaid.

If they don't qualify for SSI either due to income OR the disability, then Medicaid is not automatic - although they could still qualify for it separately. Do I have that right?

It's been years since I had to deal with Medicaid and/or SSI / SSDI. So many damned rules/regulations!

Thanks for your really thought provoking post. The timing of the lock is interesting in that, she could very well have had something to hide by January 2008. Or not. Discoveries that breed more questions, and I think since the 2/15/08 luncheon photos have identified Bristol as definitely being there, it just adds more credence (if she is bio-mom) to an earlier birth.

cyn

10/8/2011 19:18:10

Also too all states do things differently, Where I am the hospital wants to get paid, so the application is done as soon as the dr's notes are available and faxed to SSA. The hospital then sends the packet over to the local welfare office to verify income get whatever information is needed. The hospital wants the baby covered from the moment he/she was born so the date stamp at the SSA is important. Again this is important every state is different.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 19:24:43

@ Cyn,

Yep - I completely agree with you that hospitals and medical providers do everything they can in order to get paid, however, in the Palin's case there may have be every possibility that they either obfuscated the process and or refused to sign and/or provide the required paperwork and income information. Namely, trying to keep the lid on date of birth / bio parents etc. If they were non-cooperative, then what? They'd start getting bills, that's for sure.

Cyn

10/8/2011 19:25:42

@Palinola, Yes you can receive Medicaid without receiving SSI payments. It is very common with children.

@Viola-Alex
Thank you,really.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 19:31:24

Speaking of providers determining eligibility for benefits: If the Palin's reported Sarah's state insurance info as the coverage, and it was found out later that there was no coverage then the whole SSI/Medicaid picture would have been done retrospectively (if they didn't refuse to sign documents/provide information).

lilly lily

10/8/2011 19:47:23

The little charade Sarah Palin put on for Levi Johnstons benefit, (IV and allowing a grundgy unwashed teen to handle supposed preemie newborn when he wasn't a relation) is enough to screw up her enabling doctor.

Little show and tell scenarios might go over on soap operas, but do it in accredited hospitals and they deserve to lose priveleges.

Given the March 2008 photos in the Museum, there is no way Palin could have been pregnant, Gusty belly photo or no Gusty belly photo.

Cyn

10/8/2011 19:49:21

@Tada No can't be done like that.

@search4more BINGO I am sure most people have heard about e-verify. If so think about what that means.

Also too anybody with a credit card and an internet connection can find out just about anything about anybody famous or not.

To all of you beating me with your crazy stick. Sarah Palin is not the only person in the world with the surname Palin,trademark or not.

eclecticsandra

10/8/2011 20:00:58

Palinoia, I think there are no pictures of the 2/15/08 luncheon. Are these a recent discovery? Do you have a link? Thank you.

10/8/2011 20:04:03

anonfornow, amentothat! I'm one of the folks whose instant revulsion for Palin was due to the amazing similarities with a NPD Queen I've had to deal with. This other person has attained a much more modest level of celebrity than Palin, but one that clearly validates an otherwise thin career pedigree and sense-of-self. If anyone dares point out the emperor has no clothes, or discuss actions that are unethical or malicious or worse, the IMMEDIATE reply is: you're just jealous.
anonfornow, I think you hit the nail on the head. These NPD Queens are working madly to create a reality in which they are the STAR, but at some level they are aware of the inadequacies, and they are insanely jealous of people who have what they don't, be it beauty (Mercede), strength of character (Mercede), real professional accomplishment (Obama), strong families/successful children (Obama), physical fitness (Obama again), etc.
You know it's funny but it just hit me: by all accounts Sarah Barracuda was not quite a star basketball player back in HS, which gives her one more reason to turn into a raving green monster over Obama, who is a darned good casual player. I saw him play a game of HORSE with a professional player -- forget who -- the man can sink shots! In spite of the overwhelming demands of his job, oops I mean fancy title, he's also clearly in great physical shape.
Poor Sarah, what's an aging deranged NPD Queen to do.

Laura Novak link

10/8/2011 20:04:48

Cyn, that is an interesting point. But we've all become so darned ego centric around Palin, or Palin centric, that we forget that there are many other Palins in the country. Poor folks.

My son qualified for SSI based on his birth defect and prematurity. Also, too, MediCal. And it did not matter our income.

FWIW.

Mrs Gunka

10/8/2011 20:10:35

Laura, Is there anyway you could switch to Disqus? This format is so constricting to the flow of discussion. Having to scroll down to the bottom and then scroll up trying to remember a time stamp to see where you left off in the conversation takes so much time. With Disqus you just reply right under a comment and others can do likewise and keep the train of thought in one area. If someone posts a link you just click on it to view without all the cut and paste crap. No @ someone 15 comments back in the history. A friend on another blog finally switched and said it was so simple when she did it. Gryph's blog is the same nightmare. Please think about it as your blog gets so long when you let it go for days and is impossible to try and find where you were the last time. All the new comments are at the top and you can scroll down and read as it happens. You would get a lot more hits that way, also, too. Thanks.

lilly lily

10/8/2011 20:11:32

Anne Kilkenny was the first to debunk Palin.

No one I knew wanted to believe in the witchcraft hunter tape when I posted it on blogs, or mentioned it. It was too crazy for them to believe their eyes. One dermatologist said, NO NO it can't be so.

Since reasonable people didn't want to believe her vetting could be so bad, I decided to start debunking Palin seriously.

She was dangerous three years ago, and she is dangerous today.

The good thing is she is losing her looks rapidly. She realized her brand was how photogenic she was and she ran with it all the way to the banks. She is a rich woman on the basis of screaming out against Obama who many people hate and her looks.

NOTHING ELSE.

Going to read The Rogue this weekend.

lilly lily

10/8/2011 20:17:07

Disques can be a nitemare.

Very, very iffy. Days it won't allow you to post, or to see comments.

Many other people comment on its vagueries and how frustrating it can be. I posted less and less wherever it is.

I don't think I'm the only person who found it irritating and very quirky to deal with. Frustrating enough to forget about reading anything beyond the lead in article.

But then it helped cure me of staying on the net for hours. Now I dip in here and there.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 20:20:36

@eclecticsandra

Yes, I found the luncheon photos and posted links on the "Beginning of Babygate" thread a few days ago. Here is part of my post from there with the links:

Well, well, well....I just hunted for the event again, and I guess while we were all out hunting for "Go Red" photos, the treasure trove of photos of this event was "Fairbanks Heart Walk".

Take a look - note all photos can be viewed in their original HUGE resolution.

There is ONE that I found of Bristol! And, hard to tell, but I'm thinking she could easily be postpartum in this photo. See # 163. There are also lots of photos of Sarah with scarf, in posed shots and also at the podium. Again, not looking any too pregnant IMHO.

http://tinyurl.com/3elj3hq

See the podium photos on page 13, photos 119 to 125.

http://tinyurl.com/43nkjnb

Photo 108 has an OBVIOUSLY pregnant women in it, for contrast purposes to the WGE.

Have at it everyone - can we find another photo of Bristol (standing up?) in this batch of 700 photos?

If you click on the photos, and then "all sizes" and then original size, you can get the giant version of each photo.

Now we can put to rest with photo proof that Bristol WAS at the event.

FEDUP!!!

10/8/2011 20:23:22

IMHO, we all give the Palins too much credit re. locking the file - I believe it was someone else - wayyy up higher than her 'majesty' the GINO who locked the file. IMHO, $he would not have had the wherewithall (sp?) to think that far ahead and do that, but maybe the Dominionists behind her did.

Palinoia

10/8/2011 20:24:09

@ Laura,

Thanks for your comment SSI/MediCal for your son, regardless of your income. You DID have to sign paperwork though, right?

SSA isn't just going to enroll someone without the filing of an application and other assorted information, and a signature from the parent, correct?

What if you needed to hide the date of birth for the child because he wasn't really yours and not born on the date you publicly said?

Jeez, I've never had more headaches my life than the last 3 years thinking of all the things that don't make any sense at all with regard to Trig, and all the other Palin drama.

Cyn

10/8/2011 20:26:10

Question, What are the odds there a premature infant would weight 6+pounds? I know next to nothing about premature babies. I think I read somewhere that being born at 8 months is more dangerous than 7 months. I know this makes zero sense, can anyone enlighten me?

FEDUP!!!

10/8/2011 20:31:39

I agree with lilly lily

Sat, 08 Oct 2011 12:17:07

Disqus can be a nightmare! That is the only reason I do not comment on Palingates anymore - it takes forever to load - and then you STILL have to scroll to the end and also, too, read every comment again if you don't want to miss anything in comments to comments (sorry about this word salad, but I hope you can make some sense out of it...)

Laura Novak link

10/8/2011 20:36:00

Yes, Palinoia, we definitely signed papers. The social worker introduced us to the man from "the state". I forget what agency. I sat in a small room with him and filled out forms. Then took some home so I could put in bank account numbers. I still have the MediCal card in a file. It would kick in over and above anything private insurance didn't pick up. We had to private insurers who picked up everything. So, that did not come to pass. But when you crossed the door to that children's hospital, a MediCal card landed in your hand.

The social worker had it ALL laid out for us in the first days as I crept around, barely able to walk, in absolute shock. They are used to that, as I am sure Cyn can testify.

When my was discharged, the payments stopped. Only one was processed and came through. I then took it down to the SSA office in our city and returned it and closed the case with a man there.

cyn

10/8/2011 20:36:57

@palinola
right about a signature, but alway's a but.
One if the hospital couldn't get parents to sign or if it was not know who the baby parents would end up being. All sorts of reasons for not getting a signature at the hospital. Application is faxed over to SSA without. Then as I stated before the packet is sent over to the local welfare office to tie up lose ends. Again this is how it works where I live.

Ottoline

10/8/2011 20:37:08

Assuming CBJ left the MatSu roster because of her enabling the Apr 18 "birth," now I'm wondering if MatSu knew about the fake IV? Or if it's even true? So many intentional red herrings.

My first thought re "take you down with her" was the medical letter. That it was forged or altered. And that by the eve of Election Day, it was all so far along, and the letter was slipped into the public domain so slyly that one might have thought at the time that the letter might never really ever become scrutinized, just drift off into oblivion. So, assuming it was faked, CBJ would have a dilemma: should she speak up and say it was not her letter? And unleash the hounds of Hell upon herself, Palin, and the who McCain campaign when SP's hoax was otherwise doing fine? Or should she remain silent and thus dig herself in even deeper by not disassociating herself with a fraud (a fraud that might or might not ever come to light)?

Well, we know what she did. It must have been a hard choice. She must have had legal advice. But the letter DID come under further scrutiny. The errors we found in it earlier are now joined by other errors revealed more recently.

So, CBJ: another fork in the road:

http://i53.tinypic.com/35i279g.jpg

Laura Novak link

10/8/2011 20:37:41

Disquis: sorry, no can do. It's not up to me. This is a Weebly site. Perhaps they'll offer it one day. But not now.

Cyn, My son was 36 and 5/7 weeks. He weighed 5 pounds 14 oz. But he had reasons for not growing and staying small due to his birth defect (much too complicated to explain.) So, a healthy, normally developed baby born at that age would likely be bigger.

FrostyAK

10/8/2011 22:20:12

Time for a bit of British humor/snark at $P's expense:

http://tinyurl.com/3dgg37t

Can't always be serious, can we?

What's next?

10/8/2011 22:39:23

Nice to see all three Palin girls dressed appropriately for the occasion and all of them obviously thrilled to be there.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fairbanksheartwalk/5348019671/in/photostream

Notice Piper's doll?!?

nancydrewed link

10/8/2011 22:42:25

Laura -- If you're keeping count, I'd be voting no to Disqus. Imho, Disqus invites a non-stop banter that can drive away some commenters. The "like" feature seems to lead to verbosity among those prone. I just wish weebly had a preview button. Don't we all hate to have our errors on view forever? ;-)

Besides, Disqus makes available all of one's commenting history. No thanks. Intrusive as all get out. (I don't want 'Tom' to know where else I spend my time so he can poke fun). Ha.

BTW. We have friends who were unable to decide on a name for their baby. Because the medical folks have only so many days to get documents to Vital Records (a week where I live), the BC went on file as 'Baby' so and so. It stayed that way for a year. Hospitals do as much paperwork as possible at release. That's another red flag pointing to the request for the overdue BC made by the State of AK health insurance office. Todd said he'd get right on it; that email wasn't redacted. Interesting. Maybe it was left in especially to demonstrate that everything was 'just fine, nothing to see here' and was what Sarah was referring to later when she insisted they had produced a BC. Would have been a dandy time for the heavy-handed shadow Gov to have a 'lock' put on; his requests could have been the 'top-secret, gotta-be-redacted' emails that required the state to ignore the FOIA's as long as it did.

10/8/2011 22:48:51

About to find out if there is a word limit for comments:

Okay, Babygate theories.

Theory 1. First there is Banyan’s IVF/snowflake baby theory, which has the beauty of explaining a lot of things without appeal to coincidence. The arguments against it seem to be, 1) it’s too outlandish! And 2) No way could Sarah mastermind something that complicated. To which I reply, 1) Too outlandish for deep-pockets Dominionist nutcases? And 2) Clearly the aforementioned nutcases, not Sarah, would have been the masterminds. I have no idea how anyone would ever prove it, but to my mind the theory is still in play.

Theory 2. The second theory combines elements of theories proposed before, with maybe one or two new wrinkles. The timeline is nailed down by Cyn’s blockbuster report – that a lock exists, and even more importantly when it was put in place – and by SSDI sleuthing that suggests a possible candidate for "Ruffles." I'll lay it out as a time line:

June 2007: Bristol gets pregnant, a second pregnancy after a miscarriage a year earlier

9/14/2007: Bristol photographed sporting 3-4 month (call it 15-16 week) baby bump.

12/12/2007: Ruffles is born at 28-29 weeks, "startlingly premature," with health problems beyond prematurity. I'm going to say "he" for simplicity but agree with the people who have suggested that he might have been a girl. His health problems and maybe premature birth are likely due to Bristol's partying. He might also have DS. At this point the idea takes root with Palin and/or her handlers: if she were to "give birth to" a special needs’ child, it would seal the deal with a VP selection. Problem: either Bristol won’t agree to hand Ruffles over, or Ruffles is too low-functioning, or it would likely come out that he was compromised due to drug/alcohol abuse, or he/she is not expected to survive. At this point the fundie network springs into action to find a more suitable prop.

2/7/2008: CBJ attends a birth at MatSu, but it is not Bristol/Ruffles; the date has been a red herring. (Remember anon432 told us that Trig was not born at MatSu – surely a 28-29 week preemie would not have been.)

2/8?/2008: Bristol involved in minor car accident; she doesn’t look pregnant because she isn’t. Nearly two months after Trig’s birth she does not look obviously post-partum.

2/14/2008: Ruffles (the "little Valentine") is stable enough to go home, and a substitute DS baby has been located, a baby who has been diagnosed DS in utero but with no heart abnormalities. Maybe Bristol is furious at this point not because her mother "stole" her baby but because she found out that there is another Trig in the wings...her own baby just became expendable. But, no worries, the family will keep Ruffles as a foster baby until a loving adoptive family can be found. And Bristol is promised...compensations...

March/2008: Trig is born, somewhere, to someone. He is full-term, DS but healthy.

April 18, 2008: The "lab puppy" is ready to be picked up, and presented to the world. This is the chubby-cheeked baby we see with Chuckie: a well-padded month-old baby, clearly not a newborn.
May 5, 2008: Ruffles, at 4.5 months still frail and smaller than 6-week old Trig, is presented at the shower as a 3-week old.

May/June, 2008: Palin schlepps Ruffles around while Trig gets old enough for his size to be less of an issue. Having two babies is a bit of a problem; they do convince a doctor to do cosmetic work on Ruffles' ear(s).

Aug 29, 2008: Last sighting of Ruffles, in Bristol's arms; one ear is visible, not ruffled but oddly flat, clearly not as rounded as RNC Trig's ear (see below)

Sept 3, 2008: Trig takes the stage with Palin at the RNC, stepping permanently into the role of Palin prop baby. He is 5.5 months old, big but not outrageous big for a baby billed as a 4-month old. Palin is nestled all snug in her bed, visions of the White House dancing in her head. Bristol is emotionally distraught over Ruffles but starts to see an up-side of a life of celebrity; also she is pregnant, and this baby she gets to keep.

Sept/Oct, 2008: Ruffles is adopted, maybe through church circles, maybe with "compensation for medical expenses” involved, and thrives in the care of a family who loves him/her.

Dec 2008: Church fire destroys all records.

2010: Ruffles succumbs to his/her frailties. This detail is not central to the theory: the story works, and would have a much happier ending if Ruffles were alive and well, thriving in the care of a loving family. It’s a nice thought. Ironically it was the fact that the trolls, and reportedly Palin herself, were so atwitter over the SSDI research – not to mention the fact that a key date magically changed -- that inclines me to think that Ruffles did not survive.

2011: The blogging community edges closer to the truth; Palin and Bristol increasingly wig out (er, so to speak) because this is no

10/8/2011 22:53:54

Yes Virginia, there is a word limit! I learned something today!

To finish up:

2011: The blogging community edges closer to the truth; Palin and Bristol increasingly wig out (er, so to speak) because this is no harmless Desperate Housewives ploy, at the really chilling end of the spectrum is the possibility that a baby's prognosis was worsened by a family that had no further use for him/her.

So where does Tripp fit into all of this? I’m not sure, but it doesn’t really matter: if Ruffles was born in 12/07 that left plenty of time for his/her emotionally distraught mother to get pregnant again. If she decided to get pregnant in mid-February, she could have conceived in early/late March, so Tripp could have been born in Nov 2008. This would have made him a little, but not a lot, older than advertised in his early TV appearances. That zoo photo is the one thing that gives me pause: it really does not look like Bristol was sporting a 6-month bump at that point. But if he was born later than his reported birthdate then it’s harder to explain his size in his debut appearances. Also too, I would imagine that if one were going to “fudge” a child’s birth date, one would want to keep the fake date and the real date in the same calendar year – lest there be issues with PFD/tax fraud, etc. Also too, the one photo of Sherry Johnston with Tripp makes it look as if Tripp did exist on 12/26 (to my eye it looks like the same baby), but conceivably the visit could have been orchestrated with a baby who had been born earlier. There was that weird report of the Johnstons being told they could visit on very short notice, for what turned out to be a very short visit. Last also too: a November birthdate explains the video showing Bristol skipping across the ice in December, no sign of a late-pregnancy waddle.
Where all of this leaves Bristol herself is with some serious emotional sh*t: she didn’t simply give her baby to her mother, she bought (was bribed) into a scheme that made her own sweet, fragile baby expendable.

So, okay, a unified Ruffles/Trig/Tripp theory. Theory 1 actually seems simpler to me, but I think Theory 2 does also hold together.
Thoughts? Holes?

april march

10/8/2011 23:30:41

I think that the SS block was put in place when the Palins had the idea that Bristol would get shipped off to Anchorage, have the baby, and it would be given up for adoption. They did not want anyone to be able to trace the baby to them. And, Sarah, who had her eye on a bigger political future, did not want to have a pregnant unwed teen in the family. Not good for those religious right conservative voters.

They did not expect that the baby would be born premature with physical problems that would stand in the way of his being adopted. The minute that McCain was chosen and they learned that the frail baby would live. it was in Sarah's best interest to be "pregnant, expecting a DS child."

The reason that Tripp's SS# is locked, along with the Palins is that they want nothing traced to them. Not any medical records for Bristol, a lack of medical visits for the supposed-to-be-pregnant Sarah, nothing. Tripp is the excuse that Sarah gave birth to Trig, or that Bristol could not have had two babies 8 months apart. No one can know Tripp's real birth date either.

eclecticsandra

10/8/2011 23:35:42

jk, your theory seems to hold up. Remember the Desperate Housewives episode aired in Fall 2007. That could have given her the idea for faking the pregnancy. We know that Sarah and Todd went to see Juno just before the announcement, so that was to plan the disguise.

I think there is a hole in the time Bristol was in high school in Anchorage and living with Heather. Why would she be there if she wasn't obviously pregnant?

Ottoline

10/8/2011 23:55:29

The possibility that SP would have taken on the lifetime care of a DS baby before she knew she would be chosen for VP does not work for me. Because of the life-changing hugeness of that responsibility financially, emotionally, and time-wise.

Unless SP had no choice -- i.e., the DS baby was in the family and it would have been too shameful for her fundie reputation to adopt it out. Too shameful in her own community, even if the longshot of the VP call did not happen. Even if she had been assured the VP thing would happen by various McCain or Dominionist operatives, I don't think one would volunteer for DS-Mom duty unless one had shown some signs of that kind of selflessness earlier in life.

The trouble with all our theories is that we don't know for sure what is fact. For example, the Levi quote about a month-long amniotic fluid leak might be something he believes, but we know it is not true because SP was not pregnant. Ditto the data points MA has given us: we hope they are true, but we don't know; also, they could be offered with MA thinking they are true, but not actually being true. We see that some Mercede quotes did not prove out, whether she believed them herself or not.

One of the few things we know for sure is the existence of that too-flat profile. So we know SP in bed at Mat Su, with an IV, is a fiction.

FrostyAK

10/9/2011 00:26:47

@Otto - we cannot approach this as if a RATIONAL person was involved. We are talking about the psychological pathology that is $P. And the machine that is the GOP and Dominionists.

Once McC had nailed the nomination, it is not inconceivable to believe that $P was told she had the nod along with him. The Dominionists ran this whole shebang, and we know they had a strangle hold on McC via Isemann (or however the name is spelled).

As for taking on lifetime care - $P has demonstrably not taken care of her other children, why would she worry about Trig? He was her prop, nothing more, nothing less. His NAME is now her prop, since she cannot show herself with him in public anymore. When/if she can no longer afford his care, she will most likely farm him out to other family members who will not let him wither and die. Or leave him with people who do love and care for him, and just no longer pay them. My dog was a better mother than $P.

Banyan

10/9/2011 00:59:21

About the "startlingly premature" baby...

Anyone who works around a NICU would probably not consider a 28-29 week gestation preemie to be "startlingly premature."

Such a characterization would more likely be used to describe "micro-preemies" -- babies born at 23- 25 weeks gestation.

The 28-29 weekers (who weigh around 2.5- 3 pounds-- over 1000 grams) look quite big compared to the micro-preemies who weigh 750 grams or less. There are even a very few survivors who weigh only a little over 300 grams. A very few 22 week babies survive (supposedly -- gestational age at birth is tricky to figure out sometimes).

Micro-preemies are particularly vulnerable to blindness, deafness, cerebral palsy, mental retardation, autism and other psychiatric and physical illness -- often in combination.

The 28-29 weekers may also have disabilities, but the rate of severe disabilities is lower than among the micro-preemies for whom the death/disabilty rate is close to 100%.

About the 8-month preemies vs. 7 -month preemie story: it's an old, but persistent, wives tale that 8-monthers are less likely to survive than younger preemies. The smaller/earlier the preemie the greater the likelihood of death or disability.

Gestational age of preemies is figured by counting the weeks from the beginning day of the mother's last menstrual period before conception. Most lay people do not know this, so be wary of claims of gestational age that do not come from MDs.

BicPent

10/9/2011 01:10:49

So I looked through the pictures from the 2008 Fairbanks Go Red luncheon. (Link provided by Palinoia up thread: http://tinyurl.com/3elj3hq )

A few thoughts:

The pictures were uploaded January 11, 2011. The photos say: "This photo was taken on February 15, 2008 using a Nikon D200". I wonder why it took nearly 3 years to upload the pictures. And was there anything that triggered posting them in January 2011?

They don't look like personal pictures, but rather those of a professional photographer covering the event. For example, there appears to be a posed photo of each table of attendees.

This was a well-attended event. Almost everyone was wearing a beautiful red jacket, blouse or sweater. Sarah was wearing a black suit with a red scarf (a scarf that could have been added as she walked in the door...). The girls are wearing casual street clothes.

The picture that shows all three girls is number 163. You cannot see much of Bristol as she is sitting on the far side of Willow and much is hidden by the table, Willow and a bulky black hoodie. All three girls look like they would rather be anywhere else but there. Piper looks especially sad and she has an interesting baby doll with her.

I found one other picture where you can see Bristol - number 128. She is seated at the table just to the right of two women posing for the picture.

I also found picture 111 interesting. I have a vague memory of someone saying that they were at the lunch or knew someone who was. And that it was a big deal that Sarah showed up with the 3 girls because they were not expecting them and the lunch was sold out. When I look at picture 111, I imagine Sarah explaining that of course she has brought her daughters and that they simply must be accommodated at her table. That is pure speculation on my part, though, so don't go starting any new rumors! *smile*

10/9/2011 01:11:33

A couple of further thoughts...
The question does bother me: if Bristol delivered a fragile infant in 12/07, why did Palin need a different prop baby? I posted a couple of possibilities but another one occurred to me: maybe Ruffles' paternity was too unsavory to allow a little bundle of incriminating DNA to be walking around. Or maybe they wanted to be sure Ruffles was far away from his bioDad? A poster at IM reminded me of the strange trip that Palin & Bristol made to NYC in 10/07; she suggested maybe it was to explore wite-out possibilities, but I wonder if it wasn't for specialized genetic testing. One can imagine how that might have turned out.

Hat tip to my anus

10/9/2011 01:12:21

Do you know how DERANGED you sound? You literally are rewriting people's personal histories with the mot ridiculous stories, anecdotes and pure retarded thinking.

You've given a young woman a fictitious miscarriage, fictitious abortions, fictitious pregnancies. Golly, no wonder people think bloggers are evil, malicious, and stupid.

Lollygag

10/9/2011 01:15:09

About the luncheon, they are young. They look no different than Michelle O's kids looked in Africa and on trips. Kids are bored at adult events. Typical.

10/9/2011 01:34:28

Hey hat tip, who said anything about abortions?
(But here's a tip: reading comprehension generally improves if you pay attention to words, not your anus.)

Banyan

10/9/2011 02:32:09

Whenever people say Sarah needed to pretend to have Bristol's baby to avoid political "shame" of unwed parenthood, it occurs to me that it would have been MUCH easier for the Palins to have arranged a shot-gun marriage of Bristol and Levi.

Levi was clearly available for conscription into the family before the GOP convention and beyond. Paternity of the baby may not have mattered (see marriage of Sarah and Todd.) Levi could have been paid off to go through with a sham marriage that could have ended as soon as Palin was VP.

I think the lock on the Palin SSA accounts were instituted at the behest of the Dominionist/Neo-Con handlers who were already hard at work on the DS hoax by 2007-early 2008. (For reasons I've discussed previously) I think the planning may actually go back to 2006.)

10/9/2011 02:51:04

Banyan, I do agree that, whereever the truth about the hoax lies, the Dominionist/Neo-Con handlers were in it up to their eyeballs. If not a full-blown IVF scheme, which remember I do think is possible, then a major role with prop procurement and overall hoax facilitation.
As for my time line, it could be adjusted, I think, to fit your info. For example if Bristol was 3 months pregnant on 9/14, if she delivered on 12/12 it would have been at 26 weeks -- closer to micro-preemie territory. And if drug/alcohol use was involved, a preemie would have been that much more compromised.
Last note: in one of his posts promising barn-burner news soon, Gryphen made a comment about the COINCIDENCE of Palin supposedly giving birth to the perfect prop. I am eagerly awaiting the news.

PS. Yes as a matter of fact I am a little bored today

10/9/2011 03:30:10

Oh yeah, meant to add: everyone seems to agree that Palin doesn't have the wherewithal to find her own butt with two hands and a map (so to speak), so are we to believe that she thought to make sure the SS records were locked? SS records aren't exactly open-access -- every citizen has privacy protections that the government takes seriously. Do we believe Palin would have thought to take the extra cloak-and-dagger step all by her lonesome? I don't!

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 03:41:27

@Cyn, so Trig would have had health coverage via Medicaid, regardless of the birth mother? No one would have been pressured into an adoption or guardianship because of large medical bills?

10/9/2011 04:26:33

I'm no fan of Sarah Palin, but I am certain that Cyn's accessing the SSA data base to check up on Sarah or on sitting govenors is certainly unethical and illegal. I'm sure she was granted access to the data base for specific purposes, not including spying on anyone without a need to know. Behavior such as Cyn's gives people a basis for paranoia about intrusive government.

Clue Digger

10/9/2011 05:27:13

Another "clue digging" expedition has turned up a minor but interesting tidbit of trivia ...

Apparently, when Sarah starting talking about Trig having DS, she claimed it was discovered by "early testing" but she was never clear as to when exactly that testing was done.

Well, an old post at PalinDeception.com linked to a story at Crosswalk.com (a pro-life site) posted on May 8, 2008, an excerpt from which states:

"This past December, Sarah Palin was told that her baby was likely to have Down syndrome -- just one extra chromosome.

"As the Associated Press reports:

"The doctor's announcement in December, when Palin was four months pregnant, presented her with a possible life- and career-changing development."

(Crosswalk page -

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/palins-baby-defies-our-culture-of-death-11575222.html )

That got me to wondering, did DS really enter the picture because of "early testing" in December ... or was it a nasty shock resulting from Bristol giving birth to a DS baby on 12/12/07 ?

Banyan

10/9/2011 05:45:27

@ jk

Yes, 26 weeks is "shockingly premature" enough for this seasoned preemie mom!

Again, I should stress that the IVF/surrogacy/Snowflake baby theory is *only* a theory, and there are other theories that could work, too, though not wrapped and tied so neatly with a bow.

One of the sticking points for me is the incredible (as in unbelievable) coincidence of Bristol naturally delivering her mother the perfect campaign prop precisely at the politically convenient moment.

Then, there is the lock on the SSA records in Jan 2008. Something's happening here...what is ain't exactly clear ... as the song goes, but I tend to believe someone, or some group, with inside knowledge about SSA (GOP? CNP? CIA? IDF? any of them or all of them?) was/were at work early in 2008 setting the stage.

FEDUP!!!

10/9/2011 06:02:02

Thanks, What's next? Sat, 08 Oct 2011 @ 14:39:23

for uncovering the Go Red pictures!
Unfortunately, they do not show much of the two older girls.
That doll that Piper carries is similar to one my daughter used to have - it is a life-like doll (I carried her under my arm once when taking my daughter to the doctor, and the nurse was about to chide me at how I carried that 'baby', when she realized it was a doll! ;) ). The doll my daughter had was from Germany, a very expensive present of her godmother...

Ginger

10/9/2011 07:54:16

@All the commenters that think Bristol had a premature baby...

There is no evidence of this. None--Zero--Nada--Zip! Can't you remember when a woman gets pregnant, she usually carries the baby for nine months? This rumor was started by the RNC because they didn't want to deal with Babygate. They knew the bloggers were on to Sarah's faked pregnancy, and they had to put out this rumor to shut them up..."Bristol had a preemie and she was angry because her mother took her baby so she turned around and got pregnant again."

Do you people think it's a lot of fun being pregnant at 16/17 and having a baby? Are you nuts or what? It's not. And, let me tell you, the last thing a young girl that age wants to do after giving birth, is to turn around and get pregnant again.

The only evidence I have seen is the e-mail from the SOA, Benefits Div. dated May 21, 2008. They are telling Sarah that until they receive her new child's birth certificate, they would not pay ANYMORE claims. In Alaska, a pregnant woman insured through the state is covered for 72 hours after giving birth. After that, a b/c is required. Also, ask yourself this. How come the paperwork was in Sarah's name? Someone needs to ask Dr. CBJ.

I'd always thought Bristol wasn't pregnant a second time but had no proof. You can find my comments at Palin's Deceptions starting in Jan., 2009. After I saw the e-mail, I knew Bristol was the one who gave birth to Trig on April 17/18, 2008. Michael Carey told the BBC no one in Alaska knew of Bristol's second pregnancy. He worked in the ADN newsroom. You can read the transcript over at PD. I'll bet you can't find one person who heard in April, May, June or July of 2008, that Bristol was pregnant. It wasn't until Sarah agreed to accept the VP slot, and let them parade Bristol around pg, after she faked a pregnancy, that we found out.

Joe McGinniss said on his blog, "the commenters believe everything the bloggers tell them." How true! From the very beginning, we have been fed this "El Toro ca ca."

Wake up people...

10/9/2011 13:35:16

@Ginger, I agree that it is awfully coincidental that a family member delivered a child with DS at the exact moment which would be most beneficial to Sarah. But wouldn't it also be too coincidental for Bristol to adopt a child who is her own Mini-Me at a time most perfect to cover for Sarah? I'm more of a supporter of the lemons-into-lemonade theory, that Sarah made the best advantage of the situation presented to her.

Re the SSA lock, the Palins are known associates of AIP members, if not actual members themselves. I'd guess some AIP members are none too fond of federal employees having access And may be aware of who can place a lock on files. Just an idea.

V ictoria link

10/9/2011 13:55:51

@Ginger: It may not be fun being pregnant, but it sure can be fun to have sex! And if you just had a baby - and your sex ed classes were as poor as we believe Bristol's were - you might think that you could not get pregnant soon again.

10/9/2011 14:41:23

Ginger, not sure where to start...
Teenagers make babies. Many teenage girls want babies. A teenage girl, or any woman for that matter, is very likely to want another baby after she loses one. And to this I would add the observation that Bristol strikes me as a very dim bulb who by all accounts loves sex, and who does seem to have genuine maternal instincts (more than her mother, certainly, although that's not saying much, a fence post has more maternal instincts than Sarah Palin.)

As for whether Bristol had a premature baby, no there's no proof -- like a court case we're left to evaluate circumstantial evidence. In the following I'm going to assume that Ruffles is the baby Bristol delivered, acknowledging this to also be a conclusion based on consideration of evidence:
1) Bristol was sporting a 3-4 month baby bump on 9/14/2007. If that baby was born on 4/18 it would have been a 10+ month gestation. This led to one idea that Ruffles was born in 2/08, one month premature. I agree, there is little evidence for this specific scenario. I'm now voting for a different scenario: baby born 12/07, 3+ months premature;
2) Cyn's report of the SS lock in 1/08 suggests strongly, at least to me, that Ruffles/Trig was born by that date;
3) When we see Ruffles in May, he/she is frail and not much bigger than a full-term newborn, consistent with expectations for a micro-preemie at 3-4 months;
4) A premature birth leaves time for Bristol to get pregnant again with Tripp; a birth in 12/07 leaves plenty of time;
5) If we believe anon432, Bristol delivered a baby who was "startlingly premature." This term by itself suggests medical expertise. anon432 is a witness in our case: we have to decide if we believe him/her or not. Like any witness he/she could be lying. I think most people who have followed all of this carefully are inclined to think he/she was telling the truth. I certainly do.

The list of things we actually *know* beyond all shadow of doubt is pretty small.

Brad Scharlott

10/9/2011 14:42:01

JK: Your theory #2 works very well. I want to think about it some more. It runs counter to the somewhat simpler idea that the bigger baby was was Bristol's.

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 14:47:09

@Ginger, if the RNC created a completely fake pregnancy story for Bristol in Aug 2008 to hide her real pregnancy story in Apr 2008, they are even more incompetent than anyone realized.

The McCain campaign vetted Palin in real-time. They announced Bristol's pregnancy because they didn't want the press to announce it first. Why would an unwed teen pregnancy be good news in August but bad news in April?

If you were powerful enough to acquire white infants for fake pregnancy stories, wouldn't you be powerful enough to acquire a better set of future in-laws than the Johnstons for this plot?

And I'll take your bet that we can't find one person who says they heard of Bristol's pregnancy in spring 2008. Audrey of PD interviewed a source named Misty, a mother of one of Levi's friends, and Misty said she knew of the pregnancy in May 2008. Misty also told Audrey that Bristol did not finish the semester at Anchorage HS, so it's a little hard to argue that this woman was a Palinbot. Source: http://www.palindeception.com/blog/2008/11/on-record-from-misty-some-bristol.html

P.S. McG claims on his blog that "the commenters believe everything the bloggers tell them." You, a commenter, copied his claim and told the rest of us it's true. [Slap forehead here]

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 15:33:27

@jk, you say "anon432 is a witness in our case: we have to decide if we believe him/her or not. Like any witness he/she could be lying. I think most people who have followed all of this carefully are inclined to think he/she was telling the truth."

Isn't Anon432 the Shitfire commenter, the IM commenter who said Tripp was born in Feb 2009 and not at MatSu? Didn't we examine these claims? Laura asked a doctor to estimate the age of the age in Bristol's Feb Fox interview. A commenter called @Silver found baby pictures of Tripp with the same MatSu background.

Why would careful followers believe Anon432's information about Trig when we found problems with his/her information about Tripp?

10/9/2011 16:37:56

Ginger, I went back to the "shitfire" post, and it appears we are both mistaken about some details. She did say that Trig was born two months earlier than stated by the Palins, NOT at MatSu, "startlingly premature," with a significant ear deformity and precarious healthy, DS not immediately apparent or tested for. She said that Tripp was born 5 weeks later than announced, also NOT at MatSu. She is emphatic that the Johnston visit to MatSu must have been staged. This does support the conclusion that Ruffles was the original Trig, later replaced by RNC Trig -- this is what anon432 concludes as well. But if I'm going to accept anon432 as a witness then I have to change my timeline. I immediately see one big problem: how Trig could have been "startlingly premature" in February if Bristol was visible pregnant in mid-Sept? Maybe she was < 3mos at that point? Some women's breasts do increase in size fast after they get pregnant. If she was just 9 weeks along at that point, Ruffles would have been born at 7 months. But a question: How compromised could a baby in utero be, in terms of weight and overall health, due to maternal drug/alcohol abuse? Could a baby born at 7-8 months have the same problems as a younger preemie?

10/9/2011 17:05:05

i don't know how much alcohol or drugs one would have to consume to harm a baby in utero. I'd think it would have to be a LOT. When I was fussing over an unhealthy diet during my pg, my ob told me that women in German concentration camps delivered relatively healthy babies. The mother's body does it's best to keep the baby safe.

Palinoia

10/9/2011 17:05:54

@ JK,

I sometimes wonder if Bristol wasn't quite as pregnant as we all thought in that September photo. Remember the green sweater photo from 2006? Everyone really thought she looked pregnant in that photo also. Maybe its just how she carries her weight (when not partying as much).

Speaking of partying - The June 2007 photo wear Bristol appears SO skinny, even with baggy clothes on may suggest she was partying a bit at that time. Loss of weight, depending on what kind of drugs a kid is using is one of the tell tale signs.

So, in light of that, maybe Bristol was just barely pregnant in the September 2007 photos - say 8-12 weeks. And maybe, partying contributed to many of Trig's (Ruffles) issues, as it is apparent this was not a robust baby, even in April/May.

10/9/2011 17:32:44

jk - Did shitfire say whether Ruffles was eventually diagnosed with DS or not? I can't remember the details either. If Ruffles did not have DS, then I think that everything points to him/her being Bristol's baby.

Does anyone know when this photo was taken?
http://tinyurl.com/3jjutlu
I think this is Ruffles being fed with a Medela bottle (the bottle comes w a breast pump; seems like he was being breastfed by someone)

10/9/2011 18:26:20

First, my earlier post was a reply to rubbernecking, not Ginger. My bad :)

Palinoia, I'm thinking the same thing about the 9/14 photo. Bristol's breast size changed SO dramatically from June to Sept, I don't believe a teenage girl would put on weight like that w/o being pregnant. But maybe she was only 8-10 weeks at that point. The first sign of pregnancy I noticed was bigger (and sore) boobs -- never bigger by that much, but clearly ymmv with these things. Anyway, if we say two months, a delivery on 2/7/2008 (back to that date) would be just shy of 7 months. So maybe it all still fits. The alternatives that I see are: 1) anon432 was mistaken or lying, or 2) Bristol is not the mother of Ruffles, although she could be the mother of Trig (but only if anon432 is mistaken or lying).

@JJ, here's what anon432 said:
"Comment too long for blogger, will post remainder in next comment. can tell you with absolute certainty that Trig was NOT diagnosed with Down syndrome pre-natally. Period. In fact his condition wasn't known for a few weeks due to his startling prematurity. At the time of his birth, they were told that he could be blind, deaf, have cerebral palsy, and a host of other issues. I believe once his survival wasn't so precarious, he was tested more definitively for a number of syndromes."
That sounds ambiguous but I think she is saying that DS was eventually diagnosed. As for the photo, I've looked at it and personally can't see the baby's face well enough to have an opinion whether it is Ruffles or Trig. But I do think, and I believe MeAgain has also said, that there were two babies around for some period of time. I think the last appearance of Ruffles was 8/29/2008, a photo that someone (forget who) looked at carefully and concluded showed a deformed but repaired ear. A few days later, and from there on out, we saw RNC Trig with his perfect ears.

Brad Scharlott

10/9/2011 18:37:18

Laura, a question for you (or anyone else who remembers): did the neonatologist say that the smaller baby with the deformed ears definitely looked like he had Down syndrome?

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 18:50:25

@Brad, Doc compared the baby in the Sally Heath photo with the baby in the Mercede kitchen photo here:

http://www.lauranovakauthor.com/1/post/2011/6/the-neonatologist-ear-nose-and-upper-lip.html

Doc said "Both babies also have a similar face structure: Both have down-turned lips and a flattened nasal bridge typical of Down syndrome."

@jk, What detail did I get wrong about Anon432? Did I mistate what he/she said? Or was I wrong about our efforts to prove/disprove what he/she told us about Tripp?

@Palinoia/@jk, I think we need to be cautious about using weight gain as evidence of a pregnancy. Palin also appeared to gain weight between June 2007 and Jan/Feb 2008.

I'm reluctant to spend time analyzing the weight gain of girls in the public eye. I will say I was surprised by weight swings shown by two of Palin's daughters while in the public eye. If their mother has an eating disorder, these girls may also have problems with yo-yo diets. We have have reports of Bristol having multiple plastic surgeries before age 20. How can we be sure June 2007 is the best representation of her natural state?

10/9/2011 18:52:43

Brad, That is what I am wondering. I think the neonatologist thought DS, but again, I don't think it was definitive.

jk - It does seem shitfire implied DS, but I find it interesting that he was tested for a variety of syndromes... Looking at the chromosomes is black & white; if it were DS why did they need to test for so many other things?

If you magnify the photo http://tinyurl.com/3jjutlu
you can see the Ruffle ear with the misplaced hole.

I wonder whether Bristol did not want Ruffles used as a prop (after all, she apparently didn't agree to the adoption). Maybe SP said fine, then we won't pay/take care of him - and that was the reason he was out of the picture?

Ottoline

10/9/2011 19:03:28

rubbernecking: I'm with you about not using weight gain as evidence of pregnancy. Use of certain prescription meds could make weight gain very likely, and v fast weight gain could show as a bulgy stomach/abdomen.

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 19:06:33

@JJ, Doc was clear on the DS diagnosis. Here's another excerpt from Laura's interview with the neonatologist:

LN: But you think they both look like they have Downs?

DOC: Yes. I think most people can make the diagnosis of Down syndrome without the need to go to medical school. When a baby is born with Down’s syndrome, not prenatally diagnosed, the parents (and all the staff) usually come up with diagnosis themselves rather quickly in the delivery room.

Source: http://www.lauranovakauthor.com/1/post/2011/6/the-neonatologist-ear-nose-and-upper-lip.html

10/9/2011 19:20:46

@rubbernecking that is an interesting statement from the doctor. So this is in direct contrast to shitfire's statement that "his condition was not known for a few weeks due to his startling prematurity."
I am interested in some other expert opinions on the Ruffles photos and whether it is obvious that he has DS.

Brad Scharlott

10/9/2011 19:38:17

Thanks Rubbernecking.

OK, I have reread the neonatologist post. He says:

"DOC: They both almost certainly have Downs. The epicanthal folds, the down turned mouth, recessed nasal bridge and broad forehead. The nose is not upturned."

He could not rule out the two babies being the same child, BUT the baby in the pic with Mercede allegedly was from May, vs. the April 18 baby with Chuck Heath – the baby with Mercede looks younger and smaller.

SO - can we assume for the sake of argument that Mercede was really holding the baby in March 2008 or at least earlier than April 18? If we do that, I guess we would have to assume Mercede is on the hoax.

I am NOT saying that is likely. I don't have a firm grip on everything Mercede has said and done. But if we just look at that as an alternative idea, how well does it work?

Do we know that Mercede would not lie?

10/9/2011 19:48:08

JJ, DOC's statement doesn't contradict anon432's report -- I'm almost sure he did not have very small/frail preemies in mind when he made his statement.
As for the photo, I enlarged it and still can't tell for sure, but if it is Ruffles that does strengthen the conclusion that he is the baby born to Bristol, given that a breast pump was apparently in the picture at this point.

10/9/2011 20:06:14

jk - yeah, I thought about that, and I am letting my own preferences cloud my thought process.

Ivyfree

10/9/2011 20:13:19

"Do we know that Mercede would not lie?"

No, we don't. I think we can take it as firm that she was willing to do a lot to support her mother/brother/nephew.

I think a lot comes down to Sherri being arrested. I think a lot comes down to Sherri having chronic pain and being on house arrest at home, because I believe Sarah still has the capability of phoning a friend and having Sherri picked up and back in jail without seeing her pain doctor... I think that perhaps most people would do a lot to prevent their mother being tortured.

Does anybody think Sarah would have scruples about letting somebody else inflict pain on an enemy? Because I don't. I've always thought that as Bristol and Levi broke up, another way had to be found by Sarah to keep that family under control.

Sherri has another year to her sentence. I wonder what will happen to her when that year is up?

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 20:22:54

@Brad, if Mercede were in on the hoax, wouldn't she have posted photos that did a better job of ruling out Bristol as the birth mother?

@jk, where is the pump in the picture? I don't see it. Why isn't possible to use the same bottle for breast milk as for formula?

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 20:39:00

@Ivyfree, Sherry was arrested in Dec 2008 and sentenced in Aug 2009. What kept Mercede quiet before her mother's arrest?

Mercede sold pictures of her nephew and gave an interview to a tabloid in early 2009, after her mother's arrest. She revealed negative information about the Palins in her playboy interview. She doesn't seem particularly afraid to me.

Mercede appears to enjoy feuding with Bristol. It's hard to believe that her actions have helped her brother in his custody case.

Mercede's actions look like those of an impulsive, immature teenager. They don't look like the actions of a co-conspirator in a complex political hoax.

ginny11

10/9/2011 20:39:49

@rubbernecking: jk meant "in the picture" in the figurative sense, not that it was literally present in that picture. I got confused by that too! And you can use formula in breast pump bottles, but why would you buy those bottles if you didn't need to? If I'm remembering right, they are usually pricier than regular bottles.

rubbernecking

10/9/2011 20:48:45

@ginny11, you ask "why would you buy those bottles if you didn't need to?"

Well, you might buy them if it was important that other people believed you were breastfeeding your baby.

Or you might receive them as a gift from people who believed you would breastfeed your baby.

Ottoline

10/9/2011 21:10:57

I recall SP saying ONCE that she would breast pump at night -- which would be the only time one would not need to pump. Of course it could be for the next day. But we know she was not pumping because she was not pregnant. I wonder what the date of that breast-milk bottle photo is compared to the date when she said that about pumping. Could be a one-two punch directed at anyone who is observing such details.

DiOR

10/9/2011 21:22:10

If the baby being fed is Ruffles (and I tend to think so), then it's good news because that baby looks healthy. I hope for that reason that it is Ruffles. I'd like to know when that picture was taken!

Banyan

10/9/2011 21:36:23

I'm not at all sure that Ruffles has DS by observation alone. With preemies, even older preemies, it can be very hard to tell by physical appearance, in my experience which is mostly with preemies without DS.

I do trust the Neonatologist's opinion, but I'd like a second opinion about Ruffles before being certain about DS.

However, what we have had a lot of -- over at IM-- is expert medical opinion on the impossibility to surgically correcting a baby's ear defect in such a way as to produce the RNC Trig. The expert MDs have told us that besides being unethical, it would be impossible to achieve the results seen on RNC Trig.

I also have to say that RNC Trig shows no signs at all of having been born "startlingly" premature. Ruffles however, does have that preemie look.

I should also add that "startlingly" premature is not a medical term. So, I can't say for sure what "Shitfire" meant by that. To people unused to preemies a 29-weeker appears shockingly fetal.

It seems unlikely to me that tests weren't done fairly quickly after delivery to detect possible syndromes, since this information can be rather important to how the baby is treated in the NICU. If for no other reason than the ear deformity, syndromes would be expected.

Neonatologists have told me that when one deformity is seen, it is a major red flag to look for others. Deformities rarely exist in isolation.

Again, the whole fetal alcohol syndrome thing is just not relevant here, in that there are no particular tests that are definitive for FAS. To say a preemie has "FAS" is not a medical or science-based statement. It is more a value judgement on whatever is known of the mother's prenatal behavior.

I'm sure any baby of Bristol's was exposed to many drugs, including alcohol, but I've seen many such babies who are perfectly normal, even exceptionally bright, beautiful and accomplished, without any trace of FAS.

The medical texts I've read say the tests would be done almost immediately and results for DS would be available within a day or two following delivery. There is no need to stabilize the baby before getting the blood sample that would show DS.

10/9/2011 22:15:56

Laura, I'm with Banyan. Is it possible to get a second opinion on whether Ruffles' appearance is consistent with DS?
Check out palinpeytonplace, it looks like Ruffles was the baby at the VP announcement Aug 29 but then was switched out at the RNC on Sep 3. Maybe Bristol's maternal instinct set in to protect him?

Re Ruffles' ears, I think that they used those earforms (as per the Freudian slip SP made instead of "earmark") to fix the top part, which wouldn't involve surgery, and then a simple skin flap on the external hole abnormality. But you can see that the Aug 29 baby clearly is a different baby than the perfect eared Sept 3 baby

Exp:Nov.05/08

10/9/2011 22:21:56

Some things we know for sure:

No proof anyone had an amnio to determine Trig's DS before birth.
No proof of Trig's premature birth.
No proof of when Trig was born.
No proof Trig was even born at a hospital.
No proof Tripp was even born at a hospital.
No proof of when Tripp was born.

We do have proof of one dead former NICU nurse (fire) and some destroyed adoption records (fire), with no real closure on the cause of either.

No matter who Trig's birth mother is, she could easily have been led to believe she couldn't handle the responsibility of a DS baby and that it would be costly, and it'd be easy to misinform her about Medicaid, especially if she were young and scared (even if it was Bristol) and doubly so if she were in an illegal or abusive situation that got her pregnant.
It is very easy to manipulate a minor who's already vulnerable.

If CBJ is the only living person on record who'll admit to having anything to do with Trig's birth, and she founded the Children's Place, just think of the young pregnant women and new teen mothers (rape and abuse survivors, possible drug and alcohol addicts, homeless, etc.)she'd be looking after. And all those babies born to them that would need to be placed in good homes once they were born, if they survived.

And, for all we know, Trig's birth mother may not be able to tell her own tale, for a myriad of reasons. If it isn't Bristol, this might be darker than any of us could probably imagine.

I appreciate everyone's research and hope this sad and twisted tale comes to an end, and soon.

10/9/2011 22:48:19

I haven't been quite as obsessive about keeping up today, so let's see...
1) Re: the photo we're discussing, one of those interesting anon comments way back when commented on the black bag with a handle that is visible next to the woman feeding Trig/Ruffles; she said it was the distinctive bag that comes with the breast pump. I'm not 100% sure of this but it is an important detail. I don't think we can draw conclusions from the bottle alone: if specialized bottles were purchased at any point, for any baby, they could have been in use with formula later.
2) Banyan, I guess it comes down to whether we believe anon432 or not. I do, but as I said I admit that's only a judgment on my part. But if DS were not diagnosed before delivery, does it matter whether it was diagnosed within a few days or a few weeks? I do see that it's an important question, whether or not Ruffles was/is DS!
3) JJ, yeah, it was the palinpeytonplace post I was remembering. I forgot where I had seen it, but I knew it made a good case. Maybe they had to "debut" round-ear Trig at the RNC because he was the baby who would be playing the role of Trig from there on out? I also believe he was more high-functioning than Ruffles. One thing that has struck me: in every photo that is definitely or even could be him/her, he seems hypotonic, possibly severely. Consistent with significant prematurity combined with a host of medical problems? RNC Trig was/is a much more alert, nimble critter, from his first appearance as blue-sweater/airplane Trig.

april march

10/9/2011 23:11:07

A couple of thoughts:

About breast feeding and pumping. The way that the breasts make more milk is when the baby drinks the milk or the breast is emptied via a pump. That is what stimulates the breast to make more. It does not make sense that Sarah or anyone else would just pump at night. There wouldn't be much milk.

There are places that supply breast milk to mothers with allergic children who require breast milk and the mother is not producing. If Sarah really was pumping, she would have to pump as regularly as she would have to breast feed. The problem with DS babies is weak muscles and difficulty to latch on to the beast.

About alcohol and drug consumption during pregnancy. While people write that women in concentration had normal babies, or that someone drank and gave birth to a normal child, I would like to offer some of the children that were adopted from Russia or the poor Eastern European countries, such as Romania. The children did not develop normally, and many had been born to drug addicted and/or alcohol addicted parents. There are many adoptive parents who wished that they had known more about the birth parents before adopting because the child has so many problems.

Our local paper did a major section on FAS, which does not show itself until the growing child fails to meet certain landmarks in development. The FAS children may look like DS, but a chromosome test would show DS, not FAS. They are slower to turn over, walk, talk, some are far more disabled than DS children. Some are born with major hearing and/or visual problems. There is no hard and fast rule. Some people do drink or take drugs during pregnancy and see no ill effects. It may not be true for everyone.

There is no question that Bristol bragged about her party life in her My Space posts in 2007. She said that she was a stoner. She said that Sarah thought she was pregnant.

Banyan

10/9/2011 23:22:04

@ jk

I tend to believe anon432 as well, however suspect she is not a NICU nurse, but someone less familiar with the medical issues of prematurity.

I may be wrong and 432 may be a NICU nurse just trying to use lay language ("startlingly premature" instead of the more specific and descriptive extremely preterm (<26 weeks) or micro-preemie)

The part about waiting for weeks to do the DS tests strikes me as wrong, however. The ear deformity would immediately begin a search for other defects.

I would also think there would be some tell-tale marks of DS that could be seen even in extremely premature preemies. It is also possible that DS was recognized early on, but the definitive testing was not done for several weeks.

When my own preemie was born, I immediately checked for a "palmar crease" on my baby's hands. I was relieved that the lines on the palm looked totally normal -- however other things later went terribly wrong, due to prematurity and related afflictions-- leaving my child at least as disabled, if not more disabled, than Trig seems to be.

rubbernecking

10/10/2011 00:39:00

@Banyan, why is Anon432 more credible than Laura's neonatologist?

Do you also believe Anon432's info on Tripp? That he was born the week of Jan 31, 2009? That Bristol was 2 weeks post-partum in the Greta video?

@Exp:Nov.05/08, what proof is available that adoption records were destroyed in a fire?

Allison link

10/10/2011 00:42:46

If Tripp Johnston's record is sealed, and he's only a grandchild of a former governor, then is Kayla Palin's record sealed too? Would be interesting to know if Tripp is different in that way.

eclecticsandra

10/10/2011 00:58:30

I have studied FAS in detail as it pertained to giving prenatal dietary advice. I'm a couple of years out of the loop now, but there is one thing that is important. During the early stages of pregnancy there is a period when many systems are forming. If a toxin of some kind is at high enough levels, it will breach a window of opportunity and cause birth defects in several systems.

Thalidomide was one we learned about early, but alcohol was determined in the 70's to be a teratogen (causing birth defects). This was most apparent in children of alcoholic mothers who had high blood levels most of the time. Others (such as teens) could have such a result from a binge that occurred during that window.

There are several systems affected, and the most striking is a composite of facial features. However, the brain and heart are going through profound developmental stages at the same time, so they are often affected.

One characteristic that seems to endure is a small head circumference which doesn't not approach normal during growth.

Banyan

10/10/2011 01:12:12

@ rubbernecking

I do not think Anon432 is necessarily more or less credible than Laura's neonatologist.

I find them both credible, but I suspect 432 may be working with second-hand or documentary information, rather than direct observation or participation in the events she describes. She might be misunderstanding or misinterpreting some details, or I may be misunderstanding what she is trying to tell us.

All I can state, with some certainty (based on a preponderance of circumstantial evidence,) is that Sarah Palin did not give birth to a baby on April 18, 2008 at Mat-Su Hospital.

Everything else is hypothesis, and is based on information that may or may not be credible or verifiable -- such as the info from the Wasilla carpooling moms, from anon432, or from even MeAgain.

As for the neonatologist, I think there is a high degree of subjectivity at work when trying to look at a preemie in a not-so-clear picture and "diagnosing" DS.

I personally do not see it, but I do not have much hands-on experience with DS. I do have it with preemies, both personally and professionally.

I haven't the slightest idea what to believe about Bristol and/or Tripp, and really prefer not to think about them at all, when I can avoid it.

My main interest here is the political hoax angle and medical details concerning prematurity and NICU care.

Laura Novak link

10/10/2011 01:16:32

Allison, I'm glad to see you here again. Can you please give us all the name of your new website and the link so we can start to take a look over there more often?

I recall that your first post, at least the first one I saw, was pretty comprehensive. And it will be my pleasure to steer traffic your way.

Thanks!

rubbernecking

10/10/2011 02:02:20

@Banyan, thanks for answering. I asked about Bristol/Tripp because Anon432 offered information about them that seems unsupported by any known evidence. This was a factor in my belief that this person's information about Trig was likely also unreliable.

Laura vouched for the neonatologist's credentials. No blogger has vouched for Anon432's credentials.

10/10/2011 02:34:49

I don't doubt DOC's credentials but he was only able to work with a few photographs. If anon432 is legit, she might well not be a neonatologist; she could work in health care administration for all we know. But if she is legit then she has first-hand information. If it doesn't square with other "evidence," we get back to the question, what do we really know? Most of us believe there were three babies: Ruffles, Trig, Tripp. Most of us believe two of them were born to Bristol. But at the end of the day, who was born to whom, and when, and where, is not clear for any of these babies. So I agree, a 1/09 birthdate for Tripp doesn't square with other bits of "evidence"; it made sense to me that he was born in 11/08, but no hard evidence rules out what anon432 said.
I am hoping against hope that G's post tomorrow will shed new light on all of this!

Grrrrrrr

10/10/2011 02:51:43

I see the possibility being raised time and again that the Palins may have planned to "adopt out" a baby born into their family. Isn't this barking up the wrong tree for a "pro-life" stance? This IS the 21st century and out of wedlock pregnancy is hardly the stigma it may once have been, even for a teenager; witness the acceptance of Bristol's 5-month pregnancy announcement: no big deal, it was a mistake in judgment but we support her commitment to the sanctity of life.

So to me the baby-switching makes no sense in the "failed adoption" scenario. I'm open to the possibility that substitute babies were used for various reasons at various times, just not open to any kind of adoption scenario if any of the babies were Palin-related.

I'm with others who cannot imagine that Sarah orchestrated a complex plan far in advance; I think it is more likely she reacted to something and a domino effect, perhaps with a little help from her friends, followed, with tweaks along the way.

I'm also with others who cannot imagine the flat-bellied Sarah suddenly ballooning in weeks, and that if the baby had any health problems a scruffy Levi would have been invited to hold it within hours of its birth (and photographed).

My intuitive guess is that something very suspicious happened on April 18 -- all of which I can see as a staged presentation -- for whatever reason.

I do not believe Sarah Palin is the mother of any child born after Piper, and I think anyone who lied about giving birth to someone she did not is far more guilty of violating the sanctity of life than anyone who decided for any reason to abort a fetus before viability. THAT is why I want to see the lie exposed.

The political advantage may have been perceived later than the actual circumstances that precipitated the lie. But to pretend you are pregnant demonstrates a willingness to lie about something so basic to the definitive realm of womanhood that it demonstrates pathological desperation.

What if Obama, who is half black and half white, had melanin injections to make him appear either more black or more white? Poor analogy, I know, but such a deceit would raise my hackles.

So she's not running. She's done so much damage to MY sense of feminine responsibility and accountability that I want to see her discredited, finally and with proof and widespread publicity.

Brad Scharlott

10/10/2011 03:00:55

Grrrrr wrote: " But to pretend you are pregnant demonstrates a willingness to lie about something so basic to the definitive realm of womanhood that it demonstrates pathological desperation."

That is a great sentence – you make clear there is something terribly wrong with her.

Palinoia

10/10/2011 03:49:24

re: Doc's opinion on both babies having DS....

The neonatalogist has YEARS of training and experience to recognize the definitive exterior signs of DS. I'm not convinced that Trig, if premature, was immediately identified as a DS baby, esp if he was Ruffles, and since I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that if Bristol is bio-mom, there was no pre-delivery DS diagnosis via prenatal testing. Ruffles even in the photos we have from April/May doesn't look as strongly DS as the Trig presented on 4/18, and if Ruffles was relatively or "startlingly" premature, may have looked even less so at the time of his/her birth, whenever that was.

10/10/2011 04:23:18

Palinoia, I agree with your assessment of the photos of Ruffles. Could he have been a DS matrix? With the DS less of an issue than other abnormalities and the effects of prematurity?
And Grrrrr, do we really believe that Palin has any real conviction about the sanctity of life?! Maybe you do; I sure don't. My hunch is that she didn't hesitate to go the wite-out route when it suited her purposes. That aside, there's no end to the fun & games that goes on with babies in Red State circles: the Desperate Housewives ploy and creative permutations thereof. Maybe Ruffles was slated to be absorbed somewhere in the Heath/Palin family tree. But I don't have any problem believing that Bristol agreed, under duress, to have him adopted out -- or let him be adopted out later. My working hypothesis at this point is that he was either not expected to survive, or expected to remain medically frail with severe developmental delays. In that scenario one can imagine all sorts of rationalizations on the Palin's part.

But maybe the family hadn't settled on any plan when Trig (Ruffles) forced the issue by appearing prematurely.

Banyan

10/10/2011 06:50:14

@ palinoia

Re: "YEARS of training and experience" of the neonatologist:

I go to neonatal conferences several times each year (I am a medical researcher) and have heard neonatologists, all with "many years of experience," argue over the most basic issues of science and of care, always with great vehemence and often in diametric opposition to one another.

As the mother of a preemie, I've also seen disagreements among neos at the crib side in a very personal, life- and- death, kind of way.

These people are very bright, but fallible human beings, as we all are. Second opinions always help, and most neos welcome outside perspective. I do too.

Palinoia

10/10/2011 14:42:17

@ Banyan,

You're right on the spot - hence why we still call it the "practice" of medicine today, just as 100 years ago, in spite of the increase in knowledge and technology.

My point was mostly that the Neo Doc Laura consulted was looking at a couple of specific photos at a specific time vs. real life and vs. how Ruffles would have looked at birth if born earlier.

Palinoia

10/10/2011 14:46:17

@ Banyan,

Forgot to say, my statement regarding years of training and experience - which I didn't spell out very well in my prior post - is that in looking at the pictures of Ruffles, I think it takes someone with years of training and experience to really pick out that he/she may have had DS vs. what the lay person sees. I'm really a lay person, and without that same training and experience, I'm really hard pressed to say "yep, he definitely is DS" vs. the Trig presented by the Heaths, who looked much more obviously DS (at least to me) and not premature in any way.

Exp:Nov.05/08

10/10/2011 15:46:37

I said:
We do have proof of one dead former NICU nurse (fire) and some destroyed adoption records (fire), with no real closure on the cause of either.

Then Rubbernecking asked:
@Exp:Nov.05/08, what proof is available that adoption records were destroyed in a fire?

@ Robbernecking, none that I know of. What I should have said was that there's proof of a church fire, and proof of a NICU nurse dying in a fire a few weeks later.
There is only speculation that adoption records were destroyed in the church fire.

In revisiting my choice of words, I see that I'm saying that adoption records being destroyed was proven. My apologies, it was not intended to come across that way.

BicPent

10/10/2011 15:55:17

Gryphen's post is up

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-real-tripp-johnston-please-come.html

ginny11

10/10/2011 17:10:04

I hate to say this, but I am beginning to believe (especially after reading the new IM post) that the only way the truth will be revealed about Trig is if someone "in the know" from the Anchorage/Wasilla medical community risks their livelihood by becoming the "Deep Throat" of Babygate. We need one good solid piece of irrefutable evidence that Sarah is lying about giving birth to Trig. Just one, but a a nice, strong one. I'm thinking, medical proof of a tubal ligation after Piper (if that in fact happened), or something similar.
Damn, where are the Deep Throats when you need them? :-/

Sunshine1970

10/10/2011 17:26:21

I just posted a post up at Gryphen's regarding a possible older Tripp, but it hasn't been approved, yet.

From Laoura's post about Little Boy Blue, here's Willow with an unknown baby:
http://www.lauranovakauthor.com/uploads/5/3/7/4/5374397/8820328.jpg?407

Here's a pic of Tripp screen capped from ET from yahoo's site:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/erikak1970/Tripp_Johnston-1.jpg

I don't know...but this kind of looks like the same kid...

Katie Taylor

10/10/2011 17:51:59

While we may never know all the details surrounding Trig's birth or see documented evidence of Sarah's lies on the subject I am 100% convinced something is amiss. Given the attention the subject has gotten and accusations of wrongdoing on the Palin's part I do not believe they would hesitate to release birth records if the records fully supported their reported story about his birth. The fact that they haven't tells me all I need to know to be convinced they have lied. I'm off to check out the latest hyped story at IM with hopes this one will live up to its billing.

AvidReader

10/10/2011 20:04:15

@jk
You asked about the email to Palin telling her how great she was to come back to work the day after the birth of her third son:
http://rawdata.sarahsinbox.com/12761.pdf

Christian McWorkman is the name of the person who wrote and sent it. March 6, 2008.

V ictoria link

10/10/2011 21:31:59

Christian McWorkman? Is that a real name? Too allegorical...

V ictoria link

10/10/2011 21:40:10

did some checking and the name seems to be real - but also a 14 year old who could not know much about these things

Palinoia

10/10/2011 22:38:13

@ Victoria -

I think we talked about this email quite a long time ago, and determined he meant "third daughter" rather than son.

Piper was born on a Monday, March 19, 2001, and I believe Sarah did go to work the next day, super woman that she is (not!).

Katie Taylor

10/10/2011 22:47:53

I think the author being a 14 yr old is most questionable. He is wrong about the inflation though since it was practically non-existent but to even comment on it is suspicious.

Ivyfree

10/10/2011 23:56:46

"maybe the family hadn't settled on any plan when Trig (Ruffles) forced the issue by appearing prematurely."

I'd like to remind people again, we have no proof that Trig was born prematurely.

I admit Ruffles looked as though he was premature. In fact I personally believe he probably was- or she probably was- but our beliefs are not the same as proof.

Sarah said Trig was premature, and we keep trying to make that fit into our theories- but Sarah is a liar. We've had other people say he was premature- but we have no proof of that. He could have been small due to his mother's prenatal malnutrition, for example.

V ictoria link

10/11/2011 00:52:13

@palinoia - obviously I have not followed everything so well. I can't see that an email from a stranger would matter, anyway - and if it's faked it doesn't matter either. But the name struck me as, well, unusual.

ginny11

10/11/2011 01:17:56

Ivyfree said: "Sarah said Trig was premature, and we keep trying to make that fit into our theories-"

That's not the only reason. It's not even part of the reason that many people think Trig was likely born early. The main reason is combination of pictures/appearances/sightings of Bristol from summer 2007 to Jan/Feb/March 2008. If you believe Bristol is the mother of Trig, and if you believe she was pregnant with Trig summer/fall/early winter 2007-2008, then the pictures and video of Bristol from that period of time seems to exclude a full-term birth of Trig in late Dec.-early Feb., (after which time she is seen in public again at school, the Heart Walk luncheon, etc, not looking pregnant): she didn't look big enough to be close to full term by then.
Not that this is proof of anything, either. Just that it's nothing to do with actually believing anything Sarah said.

AvidReader

10/11/2011 01:18:20

Christian McWorkman is just such a great name, if it were mine I'd be writing emails to governors too.

What struck me as strange was the date; Sarah was getting lots of congratulatory emails on that day since she'd just announced her pregnancy.

But McWorkman wants to talk about her previous pregnancies and her 'right back to work' atttitude. he doesn't even mention her newest pregnancy.

The language is also stilted: "This night" rather than tonight; "our American Dollar"; and a few other oddities. One of the stranger emails.

I'm not sure why jk wanted to review it. I took the weekend off and didn't find this thread until this morning. If the email is still important to jk I hope he or she finds it here.

10/11/2011 03:21:33

Avid Reader, many thanks! I forgot the name was *Mc*Workman. This might be the king of all wild goose chases, but the letter came to mind because I found an infant who struck me as a candidate for Ruffles, last name Workman -- which rang a bell. Unusual name, right? This baby had parents who clearly loved her, and who were young; as I said this whole thing could be a very wild goose chase. But a few curiosities have cropped up. For one, this is the baby whose birth date apparently changed in the SSDI from the time I started doing my research. As per Cyn's report, it would not have been difficult for someone to have "corrected" it. For two, it looks like there might be a familial link between this baby and a guy who has a political consulting and land development company in...
wait for it...
Scottsdale Arizona. And is active in AZ Republican circles.
I hear Sarah Palin doesn't believe in coincidences. Should we?

AvidReader

10/11/2011 03:42:53

That is very interesting, jk. I have another AZ connection that looks odd.

I have three different Palin email databases (Crivella, Sarah's in-box, and freep), but the main content of this email only shows up in freep:

http://www.freep.com/palin/PalinEmails/all/Palin_Email_2007-04-09.pdf

The writer of the mail is asking the governor for help with a child custody case; the writer, Juanita Cooper, lives in Paulden AZ, but the child she's writing about lives in Anchorage.

Palin took a trip to AZ the next week:
http://palinemail.msnbc.msn.com/palinAll/pdf/17487.pdf

In the other two email databases, only the second page of this email exists, page PRA_GSP01 0000981 the missing page is PRA_GSP01 0000980

Ottoline

10/11/2011 03:44:10

jk -- what were the original and changed dates of birth? How do you know about "clearly loved her"?

(Prob not the case, but my first impression re "Political consulting and land dev" is airy-fairy. Code words for front for some big money shenigans.)

10/11/2011 04:52:10

It does give me pause, to be getting into too much detail about people who could having nothing to do with all of this. But Ottoline, the basic answer is that I found an on-line obituary for the child. My reading is that the child was living with her mother and her mother's boyfriend, who was not the bioDad, but there was a continuing relationship between the child and her bioDad. The possible curious AZ link is via the boyfriend; the possible curious link to the teenager letter-writer is via the bioDad. I don't know what to make of it. The one possible scenario that comes to mind is: young woman has baby, breaks up with father, starts relationship with New Guy; father of New Guy is well-connected in fundie/Peerupblication circles; father of new guy learns that a rising Peerublican star has need of a borrowed baby; father of new guy makes his son & her girlfriend an offer they can't afford to refuse; baby, who has medical problems, gets borrowed; baby eventually gets returned.
But the sleuthing exercise started in the first place to test the hypothesis that a medically fragile baby was born to Bristol, and later died, possibly having been adopted in the meantime. I can't easily come up with a scenario where a baby born to Bristol would end up with this particular family.
Again, though, this whole thing could be one big wild goose chase. I have one remaining query in the works that could shed more light on things. Or not.

Ivyfree

10/11/2011 05:05:04

"the pictures and video of Bristol from that period of time seems to exclude a full-term birth of Trig in late Dec.-early Feb"

Not really. I think the video from October in NYC could easily be 6 months along. That could certainly be the birth of a full-term, but small, infant in January.

Ottoline

10/11/2011 08:44:38

jk -- I think it's following some odd connection like that that will reveal the hoax, something not so obvious that it would have been closed off already by SP's pals. The idea of a network whereby like-minded people place babies seems possible, esp via some RW fundie institution. Trouble is, they can read here too

rubbernecking

10/11/2011 18:49:58

@AvidReader, it's interesting that you are finding differences between the email databases.

Is it possible that MSNBC and Crivella made a deliberate choice not to publish the 1st page of this particular email because it discusses the abuse of a child in an Anchorage foster home?

It appears that there were many problems with abused foster children and failures by Alaska OCS in the 2007-08 timeframe:

http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/11129.pdf

I'm not sure that these OCS emails have anything to do with the birth hoax. However, the emails show Palin had knowledge of how badly some children were treated in AK foster care. Reading these gruesome stories while grappling with an unplanned pregnancy in the family would not have been easy. Nobody reading these stories would want to abandon an infant to AK OCS.

AvidReader

10/11/2011 20:08:32

@rubbernecking
Yes, it's hard to see where the end is with the emails and speculation...

OCS allowed conditions to fester and innocent children were cruelly treated; it's amazing the email you refer to survived the purge! If a newborn was without parents who could provide, and no relative with means came forward, OCS' was the only door. A young, unwed mother might accept help from anybody, even non-relatives, in order to save her tiny son from abusers.

Merry

10/11/2011 20:25:01

Am I the only person reading this post who questions the writer Cyn's honesty and lack of integrity as proved by the attitude that it is OK to try to sneak a peek at any Palin's Social Security records. Even revealing that the Palins' information is "locked" is a breach.

No amount of wrongdoing on the other side can justify it.

Cyn has surely signed an agreement, upon gaining access to confidential SSA information, to hold all information confidential. She/he has no business whatsoever looking to open files not directly related to the work at hand.

I hope she/he is found out and loses her/his job.

I also think it is irresponsible, though she has every right, for Laura Novak to reproduce the article.

By the way, SSA has a sophisticated encryption system and can track who is snooping, whether they are successful or not.

While I am here, I have to ask whether you, dear readers, would like to have your own SSA information viewed by anyone not authorized: your neighbor who works at Social Security or the Department of Social Services, your old boyfriend at the FBI, a guy in SSA who is pals with the attorney of the spouse you are divorcing? That information is practically sacred.

Our government has made a very serious promise to all of us that it will create, regulate and enforce the laws that protect our private SSA information. For that you should all be grateful.

Laura Novak link

10/11/2011 20:54:32

Merry,

Let me be really clear with you because you seem to have missed this point while reading, and judging, this post. Cyn did NOT, let me repeat NOT, "Look to open files" in this case. Got that? She did NOT try to "sneak a peak" at anyone's SS records.

Read the post carefully and think twice before you spread your sanctimonious bullshit here or anywhere else.

MO Inkslinger

10/11/2011 20:55:20

I remember reading a post several years ago on one of these blogs from someone whose daughter worked for MatSu Medical Center who said there were no insurance paperwork completed on Trig at the hospital.

Merry

10/11/2011 21:56:39

Wow, I guess I struck a nerve. I really did not expect such a strong reaction.

I did reread Cyn's post, as I was writing and after, and I had read most of the comments, too. Please reread mine.

I stand by what I say...Cyn was out of line. Do you know what Cyn's intention was? It is just not possible to bump up against someone else's file in the course of legitimate work in the SSA database. It had to be intentional.

It doesn't matter the point of the post and, yes, I suppose I am judging it...as you have judged me.

My questions to readers about the effects of compromised SSA security are sincere and I posed potential real-life situations.

Isn't it safe here on your blog to question when someone is taking a line of thinking that includes questionable actions?

Brad Scharlott

10/11/2011 23:26:48

Merry: Let's take a broader perspective. Woodword and Bernstien revealed secret grand jury deliberations in their Watergate investigation. Was that an ethical breach? You bet. ("How would you like it if you had been indicted blah blah blah" you might argue.) But did our nation benefit because of what they did? Most people would say yes.

Is Cyn's alleged breach like leaking grand jury info? Of course not. Whether what she did was theoretically a slight ethical lapse does not concern me, since the objective here is to right a terrible wrong perpetrated on the people of the United States. You seem to want to make sure Palin has every advantage possible.

AvidReader

10/12/2011 01:07:56

I see your point, Merry. We wouldn't want public employees rummaging through our business!

Like this, in 2007:
ivy uses voter registration database and confidential information to check on two people, see what their reg is "U", and their addresses. june 13, 2007:
http://rawdata.sarahsinbox.com/18176.pdf
http://rawdata.sarahsinbox.com/18186.pdf

That's at the governor's request, so I suppose we can excuse Ivy... Following orders! And what with the CYA scheme going full-bore in the SOA, those redacted emails aren't going to give us any heartburn. There's nothing left to wonder about!

But, maybe...Is she interested in these two judges?
http://rawdata.sarahsinbox.com/18178.pdf

And speaking of judges...

Why does Whitney Brewster suddenly (and without a press release or any other notifcation) go from Elections to the queen of the DMV?

remember how sarah wanted to be the dispatcher for Wasilla PD? She eats secrets.

Cyn bumped up against a flashing red sign that said 'go away.' Sarah ate 'private' signs like parmesan-encrusted croutons, munch munch!

This time, sign me tu quoque.

10/12/2011 01:28:01

Ottoline, we are on the same page. I'm a pretty good researcher: live people and dead people, both. And the Internet is most helpful for the kind of data mining that can reveal interesting connections. I do have a day job that keeps me busy, often very busy, but continue to plug away, time permitting. I'm assuming (hoping!) that other TrigTruthers are doing the same. As devious as Palin and her big-money backers have been, I have to believe that there are clues out there...it's just a matter of finding those needles in haystacks.
At the moment I have some outstanding FOIA requests -- will report back when I hear back.

Laura Novak link

10/12/2011 17:25:31

Merry, I have been very clear that I welcome dissent on this blog. And you are welcome to think anything you want about Cyn's post. But spreading disinformation is not something I am tolerant of. And that's what you are doing.

What I strenuously object to is your personal decision that no one could have "bumped up against" a person's name in a database. You simply do not know the origins of her work. Your assumptions are wrong and without merit.

So, to suggest that she or anyone else tried to "break into" a locked file, or read anyone's personal information is not only bogus, but gratuitously inflammatory and hyperbolic.

As with a lot of research that goes on at this site, and as with much of the information I receive, only "so much" can be revealed.

I'd let it go at that. And I'd thank you to stop stating that Cyn or anyone connected here tried to break into anything. I don't appreciate it.

The post stated clearly otherwise. And Cyn's comments further clarified her point.

Cyn

10/13/2011 04:03:29

When I went to Canada on Sunday to spend Thanksgiving with family and friends.I though people at least understood what I did or didn't do. I was so wrong. Laura and Brad thank you for trying to make the truth clear for Merry. I think ,I am safe in assuming Merry isn't really interested in the facts, but what the heck, I will give it a try.

"Its not possible to bump up against someone else's file in the course of legitimate work in the SSA database" Really? Sure about that?
Our government has not made a"serious promise to protect our private SSA information"" Truth is our SS#s was never intended to be used for anything beyond paying FICA and receiving benefits. However the american people have rejected a national ID Card. The banks forced the issued in the 1960's as credit cards became more common. So our SS#s became ones identifier.

Very time you apply for a credit card,buy car insurance,even apply for a job someone is looking at your very private SS information.

This is a comment may seem to some that I am comparing apples to oranges. Your problem. After Palin's performance in South Korea yesterday.
People have more to worry about then what I did or didn't do. Enough

weeps

10/13/2011 06:47:17

..."Illegal Millitary recruiting per Child abduction through false records and Human trafficking and deaths of the parents usually the mothers"
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/millersburg-pa/TBE03O6PJSOAGQM35/p116

Merry link

10/13/2011 16:16:50

OK, where to start. No one has lectured me as though I were a five year old in a long time. Novak, you really are in a snit about something.

Second, I am beginning to think Cyn is a made up person who has no knowledge of the SSA database. There are several inconsistencies in both the original post and in the reply.

In the original post Cyn did say she/he had "access to the Social Security administration database".

Readers should know that the US SSA database is on a closed network of highest security.

As for the SSA database, all access or attempts are recorded. There is no safe way to access it or even try without the identifier for the person making the attempt being recorded, and that can be traced. If Cyn doesn't know that, which is part of annual SSA and contractor training, then there you have it.

"While doing a non-related search, I discovered that the Palin family file ... is locked with an alert in place." There is no "Palin family file." Every individual with an SS number has his/her own file.

There is no "non-related search" that would show a Palin on the same screen.

"This means that the file is password-protected and if someone tries (blah, blah, blah)." All SSA files are password-protected. There are, indeed, notables who have a higher level of protection, but otherwise everyone is in the same database.

Looking at "Governor" denials of access, 30 of them, is also not possible as Cyn describes it.

It is a mystery how Palin could have gone "to some trouble to lock her file...". Maybe Cyn could explain that.

Cyn's information about the wide use of Social Security numbers in other matters has always been an enormous problem, I very much agree. Anyone who gives out their SS number ought to know who will see it, and they should never give it out simply because someone wants to use it as a unique number. One can always refuse to give it out except for, mainly, banking and insurance matters, and entitlements. SSA does not seem to care that other entities are using SSA numbers as identifiers.

But that is a red herring on Cyn's part and not what my concerns are about a) abusing access privileges to the SSA database or b) making it up.

I beg to differ with Novak that i am spreading disinformation. I have reason to know that I am on firm ground. My intention was and is to challenge certain "facts" in Cyn's article. Furthermore I figured Palin out from the start, as did so many of us, and I am not defending her here. I am as happy to see her go down as anyone. Sharlott, please note.

Indeed, I would be very interested in learning "the origins of [Cyn's] work".

But in Novak's next paragraph she rationalizes for all of us why she can only "reveal" "so much." I think that hurts her credibility and I am sorry to see it. On the whole the blog has been very useful.

Cheer up. SP is irrelevant but others are springing up all around to replace her, so there will always be fodder to blog about.

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The Case of the Locked File – A guest post by Cyn

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