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The Perfusion Theory, by Allie, RN

6/29/2011

243 Comments

 
Picture
I followed a link from Andrew Sullivan’s site to Laura’s blog and have found myself fascinated by the analyses here of the Palin pregnancy mysteries.  I read quite a bit about it during the ’08 campaign, but just off and on since then, so some of my memories might be a little clouded.  Andrew’s fascination is with the aspects of lying and exercising bad judgment; mine, too, but I have always been interested in the pregnancy part, which, of course, doesn’t interest him in the least. :-)  It appeals to my clinical and management experience as a registered nurse in Labor and Delivery early in my career and I contemplate the logistics of how it happened.  I agree with the neonatologist’s assessments of the “hallway” photo.  BTW, when the baby is not in the nursery, it is in the mother’s room, and the idea that a grandparent would carry a baby outside of that room wandering around in a hallway unattended is outside of my experience.  A couple of other observations about the baby’s face: several hours after a vaginal birth and the nose is straight, not smashed sideways, plus there are almost always what might be called skin blemishes, usually reddened, from the bony birth canal.  And the presence of milia is almost universal. Those were not obvious here.

Trying to come up with an explanation for why or how Sarah Palin would have been in a hospital with a 6-8 week old baby passing it off as a newborn is pretty hard to grasp.  She announced a pregnancy March 5, 2008, so she had to have an outcome, either a living child or a credible story about its loss.  The photos of her pregnancy are pathetic, especially compared to the one of her first pregnancy when she was as big as a house.  I didn’t think she looked pregnant in any of them except the Gusty photo on 4/13 and the photo of her at that governors’ conference 4/17.  But, here is something to think about…the amniocentesis/near abortion story she told in Indiana, among other places.


As a pregnant woman in her forties, an amnio would be recommended.  Here is what has always bothered me.  Remember that in Sarah’s telling of her story to pro-life audiences, she indicated she knew ahead of time she was going to have a “special needs child,” and by default, this meant she had had an amnio, which meant she was around 20 weeks when it was done.  Amnios are typically done around 20 weeks.  In none of her photos does she even look big enough to safely have an amnio except for the Gusty photo. Due to some conflation of the sequence of events and my memory, I think she then talked about how she was out of town by herself and intimated she got the Down syndrome amnio results and could have terminated the pregnancy and “no one would ever know.”  Nevermind the fact that she is obviously clueless about how unavailable (second trimester) abortion is in this country to think that she could arrange one practically on the spur of the moment.  I think that something like over 85% of the counties in this country have no abortion services whatsoever.  That was playing into stereotypes and fears right there, but I digress.  Sarah has never specified to my knowledge what the out of town circumstances were.  She was governor at the time and does not seem to ever travel alone.  It is conceivable she might have concocted the out of town story after she hit the national scene, but assuming for a minute she was OOT by herself, I can think of an alternative explanation and it comes from something Levi said in his own moment in the spotlight.

Levi said that Palin would come home and go immediately to her bedroom and stay there and that Todd would crash in the recliner all night.  That was his way of suggesting they didn’t have sex, like hint, hint, how did Trig even get conceived?  Or maybe he was suggesting that they didn’t have sex with each other. In another interview he told the story about a family vacation to Hawaii and Levi went with them.  But, Todd and Sarah had a big fight and Sarah left and went home alone to AK.  This was the “summer” of ’07.  (This trip may have been in November 2007 for a wedding; I’ve seen conflicting reports.  I haven’t found any reference in the emails, yet.)  Well, I used to calculate due dates for a living, and you can just never really get away from it after you’ve done it for 10 years.  So I started doing a little math.  As you know, a pregnancy is 40 weeks.  The general rule is you use the date of the woman’s last menstrual period (LMP) and subtract 3 months and add 7 days for an estimated due date.  Well, when someone is due on May 25th and delivers on April 18th, her LMP was around the previous August 19th, you know, summer.  (The Internet has date calculators, which I used.)  Of course, we will never know the actual due date, but I sure wish I knew when that vacation was.  BTW, fetuses grow at a pretty predictable rate until the last month of pregnancy, when they begin to gain one-half pound per week.  For example, a 32-weeker usually weighs 3-2, 3 pounds, 2 ounces.  At 37 weeks, the baby is usually around 5 pounds.  For a 35-week baby to weigh 6 pounds, that would mean it would have to gain one pound a week from 32 weeks to 35 weeks.  Not likely, except for diabetes.  Since Palin didn’t announce the pregnancy until March, the due date could have been manipulated to fit whatever timeframe she wanted it to.

That “no one would ever know” moment is unintentionally revealing, because maybe it meant Todd would never know.  Just ask yourself why one might want to keep the knowledge of a pregnancy from one’s husband, especially if one has had a tubal ligation after your last child seven years earlier.

Texas.  Here are the perinatal problems with her Wild Ride story, which is basically that she started leaking 5 weeks early and left a few hours later and didn’t get home for 10 hours after that, had to then be induced and delivered in the early morning hours.  Sarah was described as not being in active labor by many witnesses during the flights home.  Why?  She had ruptured membranes, didn’t she?  We know that leaking amniotic fluid doesn’t equal labor.  Usually the rupture of the membranes stimulates prostaglandins which stimulate oxytocin which produces contractions.  Not always, however, particularly if it’s just a small leak or has sealed over.  The danger with the leaking is that it breaks the sterile barrier of the uterus and offers the opportunity for vaginal organisms to enter the uterus and become pathogenic and over time produce an infection, which is life-threatening to the fetus.  So you can’t ignore any rupture of the membranes, which protects the fetus from the outside world.  Her story is that she ignored the leak.  What is the standard of care?  IF she called her doctor and told her she thought she was leaking, the standard is to find out.  Go to Labor and Delivery and be checked.  In my day, we used Nitrazine paper to check for amniotic fluid in the vagina.  It is pretty reliable and turns a distinctive purple in the presence of amniotic fluid (it is yellow paper so the change is not subtle.)  But, you’ve got a problem if you’re out of town.  I am not a physicist, but I think one of the reasons why late pregnant women aren’t allowed on airplanes is not just because of not having a doctor to deliver a baby on board.  It is also because I imagine that there are changes in atmospheric pressure that can induce labor.  More deliveries during a full moon is real, regardless of the claimed statistics.  So, Sarah’s doctor would have no way of knowing if she got on a plane whether the changes in atmospheric pressure would induce her labor to begin.  Plus, the fetus may not be as well oxygenated at 35,000 feet.  There was absolutely no way to know and no way to test.  That is a dicey, risky call, I think.

 I didn’t know her doctor had changed her privilege status around June 2008 until I read it here.  At the next committee meeting after 4/18, I can imagine her peers asking her if her patient called her from TX and what her medical advice was.  They would have had the chart to review.  If she advised Palin to come home to the hospital without verifying the status of her membranes, I don’t think her peers would have agreed with that advice.  If she advised Palin to go to a hospital and she refused, her peers would agree that the doctor couldn’t have done anything about any advice that Palin refused to follow.  If she was truly ruptured (and I include just leaking), then the medically safe way to get her home would have been some sort of medical ambulance type arrangement.  If her doctor did not advise that, then I think her peers would criticize her for that.  Traveling to TX in late pregnancy was risky (did she have her doctor’s consent?), but traveling home with leaking membranes is the central point.  Everything revolves around whether she was leaking, which either would have been really obvious to her, or she should have had verified by a nurse and/or MD.  The more obvious her leaking was, the higher her chances of going into labor.  Once she got into active labor, she would deliver quickly after 4 previous deliveries and no one can predict when she would get active in this scenario.  When she did get active in the hospital, chances are she did deliver rather quickly.  That was the risk she took, because all she has to ask herself is would she have been able to get to any hospital fast enough enroute in the plane after she got into active labor.  My guess would be no.

Going back to Dr. Baldwin Johnson’s privileges, please be aware that a physician’s medical practice is viewed legally as his or her chattel – property - and restriction of the practice by any governing or regulatory body, including changes in hospital privileges, is grounds for a lawsuit if the reasons are not airtight.  I’ve read that she voluntarily restricted her own privileges.  That signals to me one of two things: either her peers had substantial evidence to yank her privileges and this was a negotiated settlement or that the focus of her practice had changed, such as if she had so few deliveries that it just wasn’t worth maintaining hospital privileges for them.  

Another problem with Sarah Palin’s Wild Ride story is a basic physiological one: one must be fertile to become pregnant.  There are hearsay reports that she had a tubal ligation sometime after Piper’s birth in 2001.  Hmmmm, pregnancy following a tubal ligation.  Veddy interesting.  The ligation failure rate is 2-10/1000 procedures and is affected by how it was done, when it was done, the surgeon’s skill and the healing process.  Tubals are done during a cesarean section, after a vaginal delivery or at a time not surrounding a pregnancy, and since we know that the tubes are not in the same place or condition at all those times, which could lead to the known complications I noted, a pregnancy after a tubal ligation is certainly possible. 

We have also seen a report that indicates Sarah Palin had a procedure around 2002 that made it medically impossible to conceive and carry a pregnancy.  For this procedure, in addition to the usual surgical team, a perfusionist was asked to be on standby.  A perfusionist is a specialized individual who operates the heart-lung machine for heart surgery.  They are also used for cases with a lot of blood loss or if a patient wanted to reduce the possibility of having a blood replacement transfusion (e.g. to avoid contracting HIV) because they use a technique to save the blood lost during surgery, wash it and administer it back to the patient.  This sounds like a hysterectomy to me, which can be a bloody procedure, and which would absolutely eliminate the possibility that she faced a diagnosis of Down syndrome found in an amniocentesis report, or ‘chose life’, or delivered Trig.     

So is there another candidate for Trig’s birth mother?

Allie, RN, is a former L & D nurse, and 25-year OR nurse.  She is working on Part II on how back-to-back pregnancies could have occurred.  Many thanks, Allie, for taking the time to share your skill, and thoughts, with us.  Allie will check the comments and be available to readers as much as she can.

243 Comments
Rationalist
6/29/2011 10:32:02

This is wonderful - thank you, Allie and Laura! Looking forward to Part 2.

(P.S. I just submitted a big comment on the last post with an idea about something for everybody to research.)

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Byaka
6/29/2011 10:44:56

Allie, What is the report that indicates that SP had a procedure in 2002 that used the perfusionist? I am unfamiliar with this report (and have followed along pretty closely). Thanks.

Interesting observations!

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Banyan
6/29/2011 10:55:01

Thanks Allie!

Would you also care to comment on the issue of inducing labor, as Sarah has claimed was done to her, in a case of pre-term delivery, Down Syndrome, etc, in low-risk setting like Mat-Su?

Wouldn't Sarah's induction scenario have meant a transfer back to Anchorage and an induced delivery there with high-risk OBs and and a NICU?

I know that you doesn't even have to reason this far to see the holes in the Sarah's official story, as you have shown above, but this has always stood out to me as a near-impossibility -- on top of all the other implausibilities and impossibilities in this politically-inspired (IMO), and poorly-conceived (pun intended) GOP Hoax.

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Kristen
6/29/2011 10:55:57

I agree, Byaka...I have not heard of this report and I'm following SP and her shenanigans pretty closely as well.

Very interesting post, Allie...thank you.

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Banyan
6/29/2011 10:59:53

Sorry, need to make a grammar correction to my comment above: "You don't have to reason this far..."

Also wanted to add, as if we all didn't already know it, that Mat-Su will not even deliver twins, and Sarah's "delivery" was potentially more high-risk than that.

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 11:09:50

Regarding your statement: ". . . this meant she had had an amnio, which meant she was around 20 weeks when it was done."

1. I have always understood that Palin herself said the amnio was done at week 13, which was a red flag to many of us, because it's too early.

2. The is no reason to think there ever was an amnio except for what Palin herself (a documented compulsive liar) said.

3. IF there was an amnio, only not on Palin (of course not on Palin, because we know from the Mar 14 photo that she was not pregnant) but on the birth mother, and it was done early, I had a "Eureka!" moment when I realized that the amnio can also serve as a DNA-harvesting process, in case it was vitally important to know who the bioDad was for sure. In case that fact was critically important and could not wait to be learned (because if it was the wrong person, then an abortion or a hoax was in order). Note that we do not have to speculate on who the bioMom is in order to consider the possibility.

Regarding Palin's stated (and fictional) due date: it is given in the so-called medical letter that was issued on the eve of the election, after close of business. I believe it to be altered or forged, and therefore not originating with Dr CBJ, but the letter says the birth of Trig was at week 35.

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/pp141/WestCorrespondent/Sarah%20Palin/?action=view¤t=5weekstobaby.jpg

Please, Allie, would you also specificall comment on the Mar 14 photo: any explanation for how a woman that flat could deliver a 6+ pound baby 5 weeks later? No one ever answers this question. To me, the photo PROVES Palin was not pregnant.

Thank you for your very good post!

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ginny11
6/29/2011 11:16:20

Allie, thank you for that very informative post!
I have an alternate theory of Trig's birth (alternate to the widely-accepted Bristol-as-birth-mother theory).
My experience with pathological liars is that they like to weave threads of truth into the lie. I think this is for 3 reasons: it makes it easier to be convincing when telling the lie, it makes the lie easier to remember, and it helps theh liar to feel less guilty, less like they are really lying.
What if SOME of Sarah's story is true? What if she really did find out she was pregnant? What if she really did get an early indication of possibility of Down's Syndrome from an ultrasound? What if that really did lead to an earlier-than-usual amniocentisis to confirm the diagnosis?
And....what if, when it was confirmed that the fetus had Down's Syndrome, she decided to terminate in a town where no one knew her?
When a late-term abortion is performed (at a stage of viability outside of the womb), but the fetus is still alive after taken from the womb, I am pretty sure it is the law in most states that the doctors must try to save the baby's life.
What if this happened to Sarah? She has a late-term abortion in say January or so...but by some miracle the baby hangs on to life outside the womb, and the doctors save his life. Now what will she do? At first doctors probably would not be sure Trig would survive in the coming weeks. But once they knew for sure he was going to make it, Sarah has a problem: how to explain a new baby suddenly appearing? She considers...faking her own pregnancy! She starts wearing loose black clothing and big, colorful scarves around late February, in preparation of the hoax that she is contemplating. Maybe she was only going to keep him (rather than give him up to adoption---there are definitely families that specifically adopt special-needs babies) if she thought he would benefit her politically, i.e., if McCain got the Repub nomination. He did, so she announces her "pregnancy". Her doctor, whom she knows well and who belongs to her church, agrees to help her. They plan for an "early" birth because Palin can't take faking pregnancy for another month. They plan it for during the wee hours of the night/early morning, between shift changes at the little country hospital, so very few people need to be around.

Sarah would definitely want to hide the fact that she tried to abort a DS fetus.

I don't know. This would not explain Bristol's four month long "mono" or Levi's loving pictures with Trig. But I still think it's a possibility. Maybe Bristol's "mono" had more to do with her just not wanting to attend school, and wanting to stay home with Levi. Maybe Levi really is a tender guy with babies and kids. It's possible!
And in this scenario, the birth certificate is still a problem: it will not say "April 18 2008."

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 11:37:28

Re ". . . the idea that a grandparent would carry a baby outside of that room wandering around in a hallway unattended is outside of my experience."

When I had babies in the mid 1990s, the rule in my urban area was that if a baby went into the hallway without a nurse, the baby had to be in a hospital cart, not carried in the Mom's (or grandparent's or anyone's) arms. The baby wasn't supposed to leave the Mom's room, but if it ever did it had to be in the cart. Even nurses and other staff had to use a cart in the hallway.

The reason was the baby kidnappings from hospitals: there was triple security (few visitors were admitted, the maternity floor had a special entrance (attended); visitors had to wear a bracelet AND a badge; and there was this "no babies in the hall" rule, because their research showed that all kidnappers had had the baby in their arms, none had ever used a cart. So your experience agrees with mine on that score.

This is yet another piece of circumstantial evidence, which means it's pretty suggestive but by no means proof. For example, Palin's parents (or mine!) could have taken the baby out into the hall anyway, snapped the photo, and come inside, with no one to stop them or notice them, if they picked the right moment.

We have soooooooooo much circumstantial evidence. It all points in just the one direction. But what we need is PROOF.

I believe the Mar 14 photo IS proof, but skeptics don't accept it. That's why I hope you will offer your opinion of the Mar 14 photo, Allie.

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 11:49:17

ginny11 -- My understanding is that when someone has an abortion, it's either a saline (saline injected into the fetus to kill it immediately, and then the expulsion of that fetus via induction) or a D&C (scraping). I can't imagine any MD inducing the abortion of a live child, only to wonder if it will live or not under the most adverse start imaginable. Once one makes the decision to abort, one wants as little suffering and uncertainty as possible. But I am not an Ob/Gyn -- so I could be wrong. For example, the hideous "partial-birth abortions" -- I know nothing about that. But I do think your theory is very, very unlikely.

And I want to repeat my old broken record again: Our first task is to document that Palin was not pregnant as stated, that she lied and hoaxed the national electorate. It does not matter where Trig came from, who his bioParents were, or who in the Palin family knew or helped. This is not about all that. It's all about Palin and her deceit, her hoax. If we get lost in this maze of details that are going to be very hard to know for sure, we get distracted from the main event, which we must prove: Palin was not pregnant and therefore hoaxed a nation.

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Allie
6/29/2011 11:52:13

Thanks, everyone for your positive responses. A couple of comments need a little time for me to check some things and I will get back to those.

@Byaka and Kristen, please forgive my circumspection regarding the perfusion procedure, which I believe was a hysterectomy. A few weeks ago, I read some posts here that originated elsewhere from a very reticent individual who stated he was in healthcare and therefore subject to HIPPA regulations. He shared some observations he had personally witnessed including the procedure I described. Frankly, they had the ring of truth to me given my OB and OR background. We have heard about a tubal, but that surgery wouldn't require a perfusionist unless there were really major complications. That leaves a hyterectomy.

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 11:52:22

OT, but I just watched Bristol's Fox News interview, where she leaks that Palin has already made up her mind about running, and she says this:

"I betrayed my family when i got back together with [Levi], but I'm glad my head's on straight now."

Ehhhhhhh. This family.

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 11:53:12

Re: "As a pregnant woman in her forties, an amnio would be recommended."

But not if the woman knew she would refuse an abortion or intervention no matter what the amnio revealed. A basic rule of medical testing is "don't test if you know you won't act upon the info the test reveals." That would be accepting the small risk of an invasive procedure without any gain from the results.

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Allie
6/29/2011 12:07:21

@ Ottoline and ginny11, I agree with Otto's comments. And ginny, what you describe would be more likely if she went into spontaneous labor way early. That could have started the dominoes you described. Those are good points, Otto, as far as infant security. I can envision the rules being stretched or broken to accommodate the media, but that still doesn't explain why there was no photo of the Governor which would presumably be why the media was there.

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SLQ
6/29/2011 12:13:06

Thanks so much, Allie, for this analysis. I am looking forward to part II.

Just one note -- I do not believe the "hallway" photo was taken in a hallway. I believe it was taken in an empty room. I am not able to attach the photos here, but the background in both the Heath photo (Trig?) and the Levi (frosted hair) photo with the baby (Trig?) and the photo of Todd, Willow, Piper, and baby (Tripp?) have the identical windows and seating, which match a known photo of the labor/delivery rooms at Mat-Su Regional.

What are your thoughts about a news video crew and reporter entering the labor and delivery area unannounced (as is $arah's story) and shooting video in an empty room? Who in the hospital would need to grant permission? Would the parents need to grant permission?

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Melly
6/29/2011 12:13:08

Ginny 11...

Palin would have to be, what, 4-5 months along for a fetus to survive an attempted wite-out? We have pix of her in early Dec 07 (see link below) and Xmas 07 that give no indications of pregnancy.

However, there is that one in early Feb? 08 where she appears bloated... And I still wonder about the call from Office of Children's Services in Oct. 07, which Palin was instructed to take in a quiet place where she could sit and think.

But your theory is fascintating. Esp the idea that the hoax was for Todd's benefit, as is I suppose the refusal to show the birth certificate also too. But Trig would have been cared for out of town--New York, New Orleans, I forget where she says she was. Would she not have been with him all those weeks??

Ottoline and others (Laura, I so wish you had reply buttons!), someone--Gryphen, Regina?--confirmed from other Mat-Su pix that Chuckie and Sally were in a maternity suite, not the hallway.

http://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/82601791/Getty-Images-News

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SLQ
6/29/2011 12:15:18

One other note about the "hallway" pic. The news crew said they did not see Sarah, so the video could not have been shot in her room.

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Laura Novak link
6/29/2011 12:15:52

The perfusionist comment was made at Gryphen's site by someone who did sound authentic, though it's always hard to know. They made mention of a perfusionists report. Someone else then copied those comments onto my site. That's how Allie saw it. And her response, about a possible hysterectomy, made me reflect on the other commenters who talked about the supposed Too-Bull ligation...and how Sarah couldn't drive in the carpool for weeks on end. The moms who claim this said that never made sense. But it would if she had had abdominal surgery!

Thank you, Allie!

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Allie
6/29/2011 12:19:27

Ottoline, an alternate thought about not having an amnio is that knowing the results gives the parents time to prepare. SP claimed she knew in advance and she didn't become prolife after the results arrived. That means she wanted to know the results or else she wasn't really prolife. If she were truly a 43-year-old pregnant woman, an amnio would have been recommended by her MD because that is the standard of care. It's true some pregnant women decline the amnio because of the spontaneous abortion risk and knowing they wouldn't have an elective abortion regardless of the results.

I completely agree that proving the pregnancy never existed in Palin's body is the focus. I'm working on it!!

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comeonpeople
6/29/2011 12:34:09

thanks Allie. I'm glad more and more health care personnel sre making noise about this topic. I have always beleived from the earliest days that the way to break this open is to conrinually queation CBJ and MatSu. There is just no way in hell a FP physican would induce a HR pregnant woman with PROM at a hospital without a NICU. There is little chance CBJ had the requisite requirements to even act as Palin's OB. I vacillate between CBJ being used by Palin and CBJ being complicit in the hoax. Either case doesn;t sit well with me. CBJ is a disgrace to medicine and her actions or inactions need to be questioned agsin and again. And again.
Thanks for the post.

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ginny11
6/29/2011 12:37:55

Thanks to all for the feedback on my alternate theory!
I do realize that such a scenario is very unlikely given that late-term abortions are extremely rare and the usual methods used would seem to reduce possible survival of the fetus to almost 0. But, still, my gut tells me that there are small small kernels of truth in Palin's story....just not sure what they are or how they fit in to the whole truth.
Okay, another possibility: Palin finds out she's preggers, tries to do a wite-out abortion by starving herself pregorexia-style, goes into premature labor, the baby survives...etc., etc.

Otto, I realize you want the focus to be narrowed to only proving Palin was not pregnant when she said she was, and did not give birth to Trig on April 18 2008. But I don't see how we can do that without exploring the surrounding circumstances as well, the who, how, and why? I'm not trying to go off on crazy tangents, I really thought (and still kind of think) that my theory is a possibility. I've had experience with being the recipient of lies spun around bits of truth, and it's simply AMAZING what pathological liars are capable of! They can be very, very convincing, and will defend their lie to the bitter end, even once finally exposed. I even had one (ex) boyfriend tell me a "pre-emptive" lie, to ward off the truth that he knew was headed my way. I was astonished. I had never experienced a person who lied like that in my life. They count on the fact that most people can't imagine someone telling such lies, and don't even consider it. I see those characteristics in Palin and in they way she tells her stories of Trig.

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Allie
6/29/2011 12:44:54

About amnios at 13 weeks. There is an alternate procedure done called chorionic villus sampling which is typically done at 10-12 weeks with results in about 2 weeks. It has a slightly higher risk of miscarriage and is done for genetic disorders, not all of them, but it does test for Down syndrome, which would be a primary concern in a 43yo woman. The 13 week reference could have meant that. Amnios are generally performed around 18-20 weeks; 16 weeks might be a stretch, but no earlier I don't think.

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TF
6/29/2011 12:56:36

Thanks, Allie - you've given us a lot to think about.

As far as mixing fact with fiction, another possibility would be if Bristol was pregnant when Sarah took her to New York in Oct 2007 and they planned for Bristol to have an abortion (with-or-without Todd's knowledge). The trip was taken in October 8, 2007 and Bristol was caught on tape on "MTV TRL" show on Oct. 8, 2007, looking chunky and wearing a very unfashionable tunic-type top.

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mmud
6/29/2011 13:02:38

FWIW, I had an amnio at precisely 16 weeks. I remember having to wait until week 16. I definitely could not have the amnio at 13 weeks.It was for routine advanced maternal age. That was in 1987. I think CVS was just on the verge of becoming an option. Perhaps the amnio guideline is for 18-20 weeks now.

Of course, this is essentially irrelevant because she lies.

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Allie
6/29/2011 13:12:47

Sorry for my shorthanded 'hallway photo'. It could very well be an empty patient room used for the photograph. I can't shake the feeling that it was a location "off the beaten path", either to keep the event away from other patients or to conduct the event quietly without bringing attention to it. Could be both. It would take a registered nurse to approve moving the baby like that, and she would probably have cleared it with her supervisor. For the media to even get into the hospital, they would typically contact someone who is generally known as the "House Supervisor" for permission, particularly since this was supposedly a weekend.

When I review this aspect of the story, I think back to an experience I had as floor supervisor of the OB-GYN unit. It involved the media taking photos of a family who had had an IVF baby (in vitro fertilization). Coordinating all that involved much rigamarole and took about two hours of my time. I just have a hard time believing that the media just waltzed in, took a picture and were on their way and nobody at the hospital was the wiser. Unless the whole thing was staged.

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mmud
6/29/2011 13:14:08

Also, too … Thank you for doing this post, Allie.

Re: amnio - I can understand that it would be better to have an amnio at 18-20 weeks, rather than 16 wks, so that there is more fluid around the fetus.

Re: (TF mentions) NYC trip by Bristol and Sarah - they may have been considering an abortion but we have no hint at that. I think that it may have been more along the lines of being alone together so that they could plan - or Sarah could direct - what they were going to do about the pregnancy: high school, how to hide it, Levi? B was likely pretty too far along for a 'regular' abortion, imo.

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SLQ
6/29/2011 13:18:27

Rationalist -- please see my responses to you on the other post.

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mmud
6/29/2011 13:19:44

Another strange detail about the news crew photo op in the hospital room with baby, Sally and Chuck is that the reporter reported that Bristol was in the room too (no one else). How very odd... again - IMO.

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 13:27:33

ginny11 -- You obviously bring a terrific perspective to this. I confess that I am hopelessly naive in this area. It's always hard for me to believe anyone is lying, and I have never been personally burned by lies -- only in the public sphere (Nixon, Hellman, Clinton x 2, Thomas, and now Palin AND her enablers).

You are right about needing to noodle all the background issues in order to come to understand this mess. I don't mean to shut down discussion, and I know it can sound like that. My apologies. I'm really acting to refute the "leave the children out of it" rebuttal that we will get in a broader public arena as soon as we speculate on the bioParents -- esp if we do so before it's widely acknowledged that Palin was not pregnant as stated.

But once there is acceptance of the proof that Palin hoaxed us, all that speculation will be fair game to those who are interested in it, and I confess I am interested in the same way you want to tie up the loose ends in a mystery novel. But that's more for entertainment and self-education.

The issue of proving Palin hoaxed us is way more than that: it's a national disgrace that needs to be lanced. Esp when you consider the enablers: MSM, GOP, Repub fat cats, and Dominionists. Yuck!

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Allie
6/29/2011 13:29:50

Let me just take a moment to thank Laura for considering my musings about the pregnancy hoax worthy of sharing with all of you. I am loving your feedback because it prompts me to contemplate new and alternative avenues and validates that my tthoughts are not so far off base.

One thing I have found so inviting about this site is how thoughtful and insightful the posters and commenters are and the quality of the exchanges is really impressive.

ginny, I am going to get into a similar theory to yours in my part II.

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Banyan
6/29/2011 13:30:53

Allie,

What if Sarah (or whoever was Trig's birth mom) just did a triple-screen that showed problems ( showing my age here, but when is the earliest this can now be done?)

And then had a chorionic villus screening? Indicating DS?

Maybe the story about amniocentesis(clearly unlikely) was just a convenient fiction for the poorly-conceived coverup to feed to the credulous Palin supporters?

This is the problem one has when one gets dumb GOP males to try to script a birth story. (IMHO, of course)

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O
6/29/2011 13:31:36

Allie! You say: "Unless the whole thing was staged."

But it was! Of course it was.What else, since she was not pregnant? We know that an ADN reporter visited, and Bailey visited, both saw Bristol and both did not see Palin.

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Banyan
6/29/2011 13:34:14

Maybe also showing my age,again, but no one who did not wear a hospital gown was allowed to get in my room pre or post-partum, much less hold my baby, after I'd given birth to a full term, healthy baby -- and it was not all THAT long ago!

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Ruth
6/29/2011 13:37:50

Ginny11

How about this for a conspiracy theory. What if SP didn't just think about having an abortion. Then later regrets letting that prop slip through her fingers. When she decides on pulling the big con she throws in Downs Syndrome to make her look even more like a saint. Of course, this would mean that she lied to the women in the car pool about the tubal, but what wouldn't she lie about?

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 13:37:56

Ooops, sorry, I just posted as "O" -- keyboard error.

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JR
6/29/2011 13:48:14

I agree that truth is weaved into many of the stories of the pathological liar. I am taking a wild guess that the two miscarriages Sarah talks about in her book play a role here. Particularly the one that the doctor wrote "abortion" on the file or bill and then used white-out to rename the procedure a miscarriage. I recall that Sarah described it as still being able to see the word abortion and being devastated (which is impossible under white out, and nobody writes on the forms anyway). When did the miscarriage/abortion really take place? Did a baby need to show up to deny a choice made by her or Bristol that now may put the VP slot in jeopardy? The day she announced her pregnancy (day after McCain clinched) is the key to this - there is only a Trig because she knew if McCain won she would have a chance. IMO.

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Allie
6/29/2011 14:02:47

About the photographs. It is amazing how each new photograph invites more questions, isn't it?

Yesterday, over on Flickr, I analyzed the 'Christmas' 2007 photo till I was cross-eyed. I finally concluded that Bristol was simply chunky, based on this rationale: if Sarah knew Bristol was pregnant, she would not have choreographed the photo that way; she would have put Piper in front of her. When that photo was taken, Bristol was 16 years old (17 the next month.) I don't believe that Sarah Palin would risk the Christmas photo of the state's first family announcing to the world that her 16yo unmarried daughter was pregnant.

Then I noticed the arrows at the top of the page and I flipped through all the other photos of the family. There are about 25 or 30. I found one photo of Bristol posted three times labeled "Oct. 06", "Oct. 07", and "undated". What is significant about it is how much it looks like the photo Laura posted of herself dressed all in black with her cute little baby bump. In this photo Bristol is also in profile, wearing a light green stretchy top with her hands below her belly. She looks about 20-22 weeks to me. I've never seen the photo before, perhaps you have.

If that was October '07, then she WAS pregnant in the September '07 'Christmas' photo, and I would posit that SP didn't know it in Sept. She and Bristol did go to the east coast in Oct. '07. I found in the emails an invitation for both of them to a Newsweek forum in NYC in Oct. '07 around the time of the MTV visit. Whether that forum is an additional one to the one in March '08 or March '08 was a reschedule, I don't know.

It's been food for thought for me.

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Banyan
6/29/2011 14:11:38

OK, another weird theory which could have happened is this:

Whether Sarah previously had a tubal or a hysterectomy, if her ovaries were left intact, she could later have had IVF and engaged in surrogacy.

I have friends and family members who have done this -- in similar circumstances --but have selected *against* DS embryos.

However, it could be done the other way around, although it would take a fertility specialist of dubious ethics -- unfortunately, there are lots of them out there.

One would also want to get a young, relatively healthy, mom or (moms) to carry the resulting fetus(es) (Bristol? Quiverfull Moms?) and multiple babies could have resulted.

And, then, when the "librul media" tries to call Sarah's bluff, she agrees to DNA tests which "prove" her genetic maternity.

Creepy, and difficult to pull off (though it might explain the trip to NY -- to see fertility specialists?) but it is factually possible.

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Allie
6/29/2011 14:18:04

@ JR, I don't know the dates of the miscarriages (haven't read Bailey's book), but one thing to know is that ANY pregnancy that is terminated spontaneously or intentionally prior to viability (24 weeks) is medically called an abortion. Missed abortion (early embryonic death), spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or elective abortion (choice). So her medical record would have likely said spont. abortion meaning miscarriage, but to the uninformed like SP, they might think the doctor wrote down that they had an elective abortion.

The only way I know of to see the word under the white out (the liquid stuff) is to hold it under the light. I busted an employee one time who tried to update the previous year's Tb test by whiting out the date and changing it and then making me my "copy." His plan didn't work.

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cuzIsaidso
6/29/2011 14:18:50

Oh but Sarah DID know in Sept! In the batch of recently released emails, Sarah requests (with urgency) that the Christmas First Family be set up in September. I'll have to go back to check date but it was absolutely in September.

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cuzIsaidso
6/29/2011 14:23:17

Oops, that should read Christmas First Family portrait photo shoot... She directed her decorator to get a wreath and other simple holiday decor because she was in a hurry to get that portrait done.

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Allie
6/29/2011 14:47:01

Banyan,

1) not sure what you mean by triple screen. Generally, the MD will use the history and his/her exam to determine whether CVS or amnio is the best choice if indicated. Both are invasive and have a small miscarriage risk, but the CVS does not screen for all that an amnio would. The disadvantage of the amnio is that it has to be done later and makes a termination more risky if it comes to that. Everybody these days pretty much gets a non-invasive ultrasound, primarily because dating the pregnancy is best done in the early weeks -- higher degree of accuracy. Everything revolves around accurate dating.

2) The rules have changed markedly about cover gowns, etc. The idea is to create a more home-like atmosphere while still minimizing infection risks. Still, there are limits, mostly because of threats of infant abduction -- keep the strangers to a minimum. I can't think of a circumstance in which the media wouldn't be considered strangers to be limited. Plus, bringing in camera equipment is bringing in outside germs because cleaning cameras and stuff isn't all that easy or effective. And who knows where those cameras have been.

3)interesting theory about the IVF with two points of caution. First, don't forget she had 43yo eggs, which means she would have an above average risk of miscarriage, not to mention a high failure to conceive rate. Second, could she not have shown her prolife street cred adequately by having a normal pregnancy, hers or surrogate?

I think a hysterectomy is a pretty effective nail in her story.

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Allie
6/29/2011 14:54:08

If that's true, cuzyousaidso, she should have planted Piper in front of Bristol. There was clearly no effort to hide her belly.

I thought the date had something to do with Track's military schedule. No?

I do allow for the possibility that you are right and that SP did know that early. More about that in part II.

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mmud
6/29/2011 14:54:36

A hysterectomy does fit the story, doesn't it?

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Punkinbugg
6/29/2011 14:56:00

Musings on the phrase "Trig was Tripp before he was Trig".

I think the baby born in early 2008 was Levi and Bristol's first child, and they wanted to name him Tripp.

Remember when Levi complained that Sarah kept saying, "Give me your baby; I'll raise it"?

Baby #1 was THEIR baby. She took it, faked its birth & renamed him Trig. A Prop is Born.

Then Bristol had Baby #2 in late 2008 and got to use the name Tripp.

"Trig was (named) Tripp before he was (renamed) Trig"

Another question: How soon after the 2007 Hawaii trip did Baby #1 appear? Might explain Levi's tan line.

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 14:59:46

Hysterectomy would be perfection, but how could one possibly prove it with HIPAA? We need way more than an anon poster, even if s/he is telling the truth. Wikileak some hysterectomy paperwork? Someone would be fired or go to jail -- unless it is possible to leak it without self-identifying. Is it?

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mmud
6/29/2011 15:06:56

@Punkinbugg
"Another question: How soon after the 2007 Hawaii trip did Baby #1 appear? Might explain Levi's tan line."

Might also explain the wedding band?

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V
6/29/2011 15:11:32

Regarding genetic tests: if Bristol is the birth mother, wouldn't it be hard to distinguish between Sarah's and Bristol's baby? The two would presumably pass on the same mitochondrial DNA, as well as other genes. More determinate is the father: Todd's or not? Now, my goal is simply to prove that the baby was not birthed by Sarah - I'm just commenting on the probable utility of the tests.

Further thoughts: As we all know, the sex of the child is determined by the father's sperm. In general, there's almost a 50-50 distribution (with slightly more boys born than girls, as Y-chromosomes are lighter than X-chromosomes and hence sperm with Y-chromosomes swim just a little faster). However, some men tend to produce all sons or all daughters. If we accept the premise that Track was fathered by Curtis Menard (indicating that SP has long practice in lying about pregnancies) and the three daughters were fathered by Todd (and they look like him) then it makes a son by Todd just a little less likely later.

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BfromC
6/29/2011 15:14:34

Thank you, Allie, for your thoughtful and professional comments. Most of us have clung to this issue because we know it it totally unfeasible. I think your comments about what Dr. CBJ may have faced from her peers at the hospital afterward are very important. We haven't overly discussed this issue, though several times we've discussed how the hospital should have been sanctioned for permitting such a delivery they were not equipt to handle.

One key fact, Sarah was the governor of Alaska who was priming herself to be McCain's VP. Would she really want her situation to turn to tragedy and the reckless endangerment of a special needs baby by flying home from Texas? If the baby had died, that surely would have put a damper on her viability to be VP, now wouldn't it?

I can't imagine that there weren't a few sound medical minds in the hospital and community that didn't declare the decision to fly home totally reckless. If there was any indication CBJ encouraged it, she should have been fired, and not allowed to quietly withdraw her privileges.

Even if the medical professionals were all aware that Sarah was a big fat liar (even then), it reflected badly on their facility and one of their doctors.

I do want to mention that it has pretty much been proven by photographs that the Chuck-Sally-Infant Trig photo was taken in one of the patient rooms at Mat-Su and not in the hallway. But it must have been an empty room they provided the Palins as a courtesy for family and reporter use. Obviously they weren't going to let reporters in a room where Sarah was in a bed, immediately postpartum. Still, it is odd that they were allowed on the floor for such a photo op.

One last note for some who wondered about gowns -- my new grandchild was just born at the top women's hospital in Chicago and I was surprised by the fact that none of us had to wear gowns - not even the father, during the actual delivery. The only fathers who had to wear gowns were those who were in on a C-section. Times have changed!

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Anonfornow
6/29/2011 15:24:00

Thank you for this, Allie. I'd say, "How did the Palins ever think they could get away with passing that big baby off as newborn"--except of course, they did.

While we have two different reports of people who say they saw a slim Bristol at the hospital that day, it's important to remember that the two older girls--Willow and Bristol--are frequently mistaken for each other, as in the cousin, Lauden, who was mistaken for Bristol in that commercial filmed right after the election.

Then again, if Trig was born some weeks earlier--or even months if he was premature--his mother would have had plenty of time to slim down before his "presentation."

Personally, I believe the Palins fiddled the dates of both baby boys. Nothing is as it seems.

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mxm
6/29/2011 15:26:51

On Sept 6, 2009 in a post at IM, this was found in the comment stream at 5:23 pm and Gryphen's response follows a bit later. I am pasting it here as this has again come up:

http://theimmoralminority.blog...

Anonymous said...

Is Trig really Tripp? In other words, did Levi and Bristol have a baby boy, which they named 'Tripp', who then became 'Trig' when Sarah adopted him? The current Tripp would be their second child. If this is true, then Levi's statements in VF make sense. Not that I expect anything about Sarah Palin to make sense. 5:23 PM

Gryphen said...

Anonymous 5:23, you are closer to the truth than anybody else on this topic. There is still a piece missing but you are within spitting distance to the truth. I am trying like crazy to get this whole thing out, but there are still a few hurdles I have to overcome. 6:02 PM
------------
So much has been discovered since this post, including Gryphen's acknowledgment that his source had not been truthful and the discovery that one infant presented in photos as Trig had a pronounced right ear deformity that mysteriously disappeared by the time of the RNC convention. Gryphen also cautioned against placing credence in this comment. I believe it is a red herring.

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Viola-Alex
6/29/2011 15:33:16

Allie-- such a great post. Like a cool drink of water after all the frenzy of what ifs. Welcome!

Audrey (of Palins Deceptions) believed that Sarah learned of Bristol's pregnancy in Sept 2007, because she had mentioned in August that her four children had registered for school. Because homeschooling is such a big deal among Sarah's base, Audrey hypothesized that if homeschooling had been planned Sarah would have capitalized on it, rather than its being a last-minute, emergency measure caused by Bristol's pregnancy.

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clf
6/29/2011 15:41:19

This would be a lot more helpful if there were links to the source material being mentioned. For example, in the last paragraph, What report??? Link please.

There are also references to photos and prior posts. Why not put those photos up in this post, so we can know exactly what you're talking about?

Not everyone has a stellar memory or the time to be hunting down old posts. Plus, you may have new readers who know nothing about the subject matter.



I appreciate Allie taking the time to give this information, but the material suffers from a lack of clarity. (Not Allie's fault--she's a nurse not a journalist.) This post could have benefited from some solid editing.



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Pam
6/29/2011 15:51:25

Thank you for such a well thought out piece of research. I am so glad to see the story continue to generate interest, especially from professionals who have not only an opinion but history of facts from their own experiences. Is is possible the Bristol is the one who contemplated the abortion on the NYC trip? I just know that Sarah did not give birth to that baby. She lies so much, this is just another whopper of a lie to do two things, increase her support and hide her daughter's pregnancy. I think that we are all getting satisfaction with her poll numbers tanking, but I want to see her revealed for the fraud she is. There needs to be a lesson here to look more closely at what people say and what people do. I think a very few people know the truth, and for whatever reason they, M and L, won't talk. Maybe some day that will change, but please keep up the investigation and let's all hope we will be rewarded with some answers in the end. The truth will out!!

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Punkinbugg
6/29/2011 16:02:09

@Viola-Alex: Also, too! You don't take good student athletes out of school their jr/sr year unless there is a dang good reason. That is their best chance to make captain on a varsity team. It's their season to shine.

Competitive people like the Palins would never do this without cause.

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 16:16:28

SLQ - I will go look!

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rubbernecking
6/29/2011 16:22:18

Re: Hawaii

Sarah Palin returned home early from a trip to Hawaii in Nov 2007. She told her staff that she was worried to be out-of-town during a special legislative session. Todd and the kids attended a wedding (Minnick?) in Hawaii on Sunday, 11 Nov 2007.

Source Emails:
1. 9/5/07 - Sarah asks Todd to confirm out-of-town dates for Nov Minnick wedding: http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/633.pdf

2. 11/10/07 - Sarah exchanges emails with Gov House manager (Erika) about leaving Hawaii early: http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/21778.pdf. They also discuss a possible meeting between Bristol and Erika's son in Hawaii. Erika's sons and Palin's daughters appear to be friends based on other emails. If Levi is on this trip, he is not mentioned in the emails.

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 16:29:50

This is an aside, and not mean to derail an excellent discussion about Allie's post.

Yes, SLQ, I think maybe - if Levi C. Johnston is our Levi Johnston - it's a traffic ticket or something like that. Thanks for looking!

I guess what I'm saying is this: there's evidence that Levi and Bristol were once actually married. Can we find out if that's true? There's no record of a marriage or divorce in Alaska, but what about in another state? Oregon? Washington? NYC, when Bristol was filmed at MTV? Maybe that wasn't a quickie abortion - maybe it was a quickie wedding.

Each state has an average of 60-70 counties. There are 58 in California. Anyone out there from California willing to divide up the work and we can each research 34 counties? If so, respond and I bet Laura can help us share email addresses privately.

I think this is a worthwhile endeavor, because if we find evidence they were married it will be hard for the MSM to ignore Palin lying about the subject. And if they were married in late 2007 or early 2008, the next obvious question is "why?"

And if we can't find evidence they were married, we will at least know it's not because we didn't give it a try.

What do y'all think? (I spend time in Texas as well as California.)

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 16:31:45

Duh...I meant there are 68 in California, which, divided by two, is 34. Tired.

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ProChoiceGrandma
6/29/2011 16:46:23

@Rationalist, excellent suggestion about checking for marriage licenses. I would suspect Fairbanks during the weekend of 2-15-08, where the travel reports indicate that the whole family was there for the Iron Dog finish and the AHA luncheon, and Track was 5 miles away at Ft. Wainwright. Sarah was Governor, so she could officiate.

If Bristol and Levi married earlier, the "Minnick wedding" in Hawaii in November 2007 would also be a good hunch.

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silver
6/29/2011 16:47:52

From the beginning I've doubted that Sarah was pregnant. But now after reading Allie's post (thanks, Allie) I'm trying (once again) to approach it with an open mind trying to find evidence that perhaps Sarah was pregnant or she's truly Trig's mother without adopting him.

Trig looks like a Palin to me and he also looks like Levi.

Sarah has given different reasons for hiding her pregnancy. A few weeks ago I questioned if she'd perhaps hired a surrogate. Would this story be so crazy that Sarah wanted another son so Levi was the sperm donor, Sarah was the mother, and Bristol the surrogate? (mother duck to that baby)?

When others hint it's an icky story that's icky enough for me, considering Levi was still in his teens and was her daughter's boyfriend. At the convention Bristol would love her little brother even more, considering she'd carried him and was maybe still breastfeeding him, and Levi would kiss him because he's his father.

It may explain why Bristol and Levi were anxious to have their own child as soon as possible. It would also explain Sarah's hatred for Levi because she wouldn't be able to stand him loving Bristol more than her.

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 16:59:38

Hi, PCG - Yes, those seem like very good places to start. These records are public, right? Marriage licenses in each county can be looked up. So...I guess I'm volunteering to coordinate this. I'll print up a list of counties for each state, and maybe we can put the word out that we need people to commit to checking the court records and getting back to me.

Laura? What do you think? Do you think it's worthwhile, and if so, can you help funnel the research while helping us maintain our anonymity? Like maybe people can email you can you can forward to me or something like that?

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ProChoiceGrandma
6/29/2011 17:01:55

Allie and Laura, another terrific post!

Allie, the contemplated abortion and the amnio were at two different times.

According to the "Schedule of Travel for Executive Positions Calendar Year 2007", Sarah was in New Orleans sometime between 9-15-07 and 10-4-07 to attend the Interstate Oil and Gas Commission conference. Apparently the conference was held on or before 9-24-07 per this article:
http://www.iogcc.state.ok.us/alaska-governor-to-head-iogcc
This would have been the time when “no one would ever know” if she got an abortion, according to her speeches and Going Rogue.

Mid November 2007 would have been when she was allegedly 13 weeks when she allegedly had her amniocentesis. Of course, everything that she said is total bullshit, because Sarah was NOT pregnant.

The only factor that I give an weight is “35 weeks”, but I believe it was Bristol who gave birth at 35 weeks gestation. I believe Bristol was pregnant when she made that comment on MySpace on 5-14-07:
http://twitpic.com/5deqjr
“haha, my mom was asking me who i was on the phone with last night, and she said she heard everything i was saying, now she thinks im pregnant. ahaha, call me later if you’d like. ♥”

And, Bristol looked at least 4 months pregnant in the 9-14-07 First Family photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37361020@N07/3440629400/lightbox/

Therefore, Bristol would have been due approximately 2-23-08 at 40 weeks, but gave birth at 35 weeks which would be mid-January. This is when I feel Bristol had her baby.

I did not comprehend how Trig could have been born much earlier than 4-18-08 until I saw a real preemie myself in early 2009. That baby, born 6 weeks early, was nearly 12 weeks old when I saw it, but it was no bigger than when my babies were born. That was shocking! It was also a BINGO moment for me.

As for a tubal ligation, I had mine several years after my last child. I was under the impression it was a very simple procedure. I had no idea that I would be laid up in bed for 3 days with terrible stomach cramps! Not from the actual surgery, but from the damn gas they use to blow up your stomach! Sheesh, no one told me about THAT! If the rumors are true that Sarah whined and complained after her tubal, this would be the only time I would have sympathy for her!

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 17:20:22

Folks - Okay, I'm naive. Apparently marriage certificates are as difficult to access as birth certificates. Do any of you practice family law? Is there a way to determine if a marriage license exists, even if it can't be viewed?

Going to bed now...more tomorrow.

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SLQ
6/29/2011 17:21:34

Rationalist -- I think it's a great idea, but it does have one big hurdle. Marriage licenses (like birth records and death records) are not public records in all states. Most states limit such records to specific individuals, i.e. the parties themselves or their parents or children.

Do we know for sure there is no record of a marriage or divorce in AK? According to AK's Bureau of Vital Statistics, only the married couple or their legal representative may obtain marriage records: http://www.hss.state.ak.us/dph/bvs/marriage/default.htm

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Rationalist
6/29/2011 17:23:03

SLQ - great minds think alike - or discover hurdles alike.

Well...I have a friend who's a private detective. I'm going to email her and ask how one might find this information.

Nighty night, everyone.

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Anon55
6/29/2011 17:32:53

Let me make one comment re "the focus of her practice had changed, such as if she had so few deliveries that it just wasn’t worth maintaining hospital privileges for them."

Allie, RN forgets that Dr. Cathy is not an ob-gyn. She's just a plain old family doctor. Family doctors admit their patients for all kinds of reasons -- ranging from heart attacks to broken hips to just being checked out. So the statement really has to be amended to "unless Dr. Cathy decided to close her medical practice and stop seeing patients."

To my knowledge, Dr. Cathy didn't close her medical practice after April 18.

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ProChoiceGrandma
6/29/2011 17:32:58

@cuzIsaidso, good catch on the email about the Christmas pics at mansion. For sure, "the sooner the better on the christmas pics" is an understatement! Bristol only had one camouflage dress.

http://palinemail.msnbc.msn.com/palinAll/pdf/638.pdf
Sarah's 9-5-07 email:
"Tib- anyone know when the king air has to return from servicing? I assume it has to fly thru Anchorage? If so, maybe that's a good way to get my family down here for First Family events incl the official family photos (which a year later we still haven't done), the mansion Christmas photo shoot (Erika's on it - she'll put wreaths on the door or fireplace and we'll call it good... Maybe outdoor shot with wreath on exterior), the Alaska Magazine photos with family in Juneau, etc. Otherwise, we need commercial reservations soon. The sooner the better on the christmas pics! My kids are getting busier than ever and it will be impossible to have everyone together if it's not in the next couple of weeks - just for the day is good enough. Do you want Kris to help me on this one?
Todd- what date's good for you? I can take the kids out of school if need be. Either king air or commercial..."

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SLQ
6/29/2011 17:45:04

Rationalist -- I just remembered something a friend once told me. He said that because marriage records aren't publicly available, the best way to find this information is to look at property records, particularly in community property states. The deed must state whether the person is single or married.

I checked the Pinal County recorded documents, and found a document, but nothing surprising or helpful, but that's only from Dec 2010. (I'm being vague because although these are public documents, I don't feel comfortable posting someone else's information in a public forum.

If anyone else wants to check, the search link is http://pinalcountyaz.gov/Departments/Recorder/Pages/DocumentSearch.aspx

I did not find any relevant records in AK: http://dnr.alaska.gov/ssd/recoff/sag/NameSearchMenu.cfm

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SLQ
6/29/2011 18:07:38

Allie, regarding CBJ's hospital affiliation, could you comment on this scenario?

CBJ has her main practice in Palmer(just a few miles from the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center) but she gave up her privileges at Mat-Su Regional June 1, 2008, per her own words. http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43179602.pdf (!lso, it does appear that she is once again listed as a physicial at Mat-Su Regional http://www.matsuregional.com/Physicians/Pages/Find%20A%20Physician.aspx)

She DOES have privileges in Anchorage: http://www.providence.org/alaska/matsu/matsu_hc.htm (she also appears to have an Anchorage office).

So, how likely is it that for a period of a few years, she voluntarily chose not to have privileges at the hospital near her Palmer practice?

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SLQ
6/29/2011 18:11:47

Oh, it doesn't look like there are any AK property records to be found, as the condo was purchased by an LLC shell: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/who-owns-bristols-anchorage-condo

In other words, the warranty deed is in the name of the LLC, not Bri$tol, so there will not be the married/single information on it.

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Anon55
6/29/2011 19:38:18

Oooh, good find SLQ, Dr. Cathy back on staff at Mat-Su. Inquiring minds want to know more.

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BlueberryT
6/29/2011 20:21:37

Great post, Allie. One comment is that it is not just the report of leaking amniotic fluid, but also her statement in Going Rogue that she was experiencing "big contractions" during her speech in TX, that indicate labor was underway. Of course, no one who observed her was aware of the fact she was experiencing contractions; but that's what she said.

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K.M.R
6/29/2011 20:29:24


The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold. - Aristotle


This is better than the Ian Rankin novels I am currently reading. They are fiction of course, as is most of this birth story. Grains of truth are indeed scattered throughout all tales, because that is how the author of a lie, or a novel, makes it believable.

Lies, and those who perorated the lies, need to be brought into the light of day. A hoax, in this case the pregnancy lie, will only end up holding us hostage if it isn't corrected. What I mean by that is there will be more and more lies from all different angles and sources, until one day, no one will know what to trust. I think we are already pretty close to seeing that happen.
Untruths are presented as a test of our gullibility. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of the Trig story. Watch to see what we can pull off.
I can almost see them sitting back with their feet up on their desks, laughing at how we go about solving the tales they tell.
I see Sarah and her family doing the same. I feel she has some powerful people backing her. She trusts that no matter what lies she tells, they will work it out.

While I think what I have just said is true, I also caution myself to use the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method when sorting through all the garbage. It would take a genius, and I'm not that, to get to the other side of the accumulated lies.

This is why I do so appreciate all the detectives here. And Laura.
I also appreciate Allie's input on this confusing birth drama.
I may not comment often, since I gain more by just reading. It's my way to KISS.

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V
6/29/2011 20:33:04

One thing that I've been wondering about for a while - although Palin has certainly perpetrated a gigantic hoax on the public - do her deeds actually constitute what would legally be considered fraud? Since she has never produced a birth certificate for Trig - since she did not take maternity leave - she may have not committed a fraud which can be considered prosecutable.

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ginny11
6/29/2011 20:45:29

Otto, I'm with you on the "leave the children alone" thing, I feel the same way about the speculation on sexual abuse (or worse) with little evidence at all. It's an opening for critics/Palin fans to say "look how ridiculous these people are! How could they make such unfounded nasty allegations!" Though, again, I knew very well a family in which there was sexual abuse/incestuous relationship going on for years between the father and the oldest daughter, and I am well aware at how absolutely "normal" a family can appear outwardly while something so awful is going on, I still think it's just too horrible of a thing to speculate with no real evidence to go on.
Allie, I can't wait to read part 2!
Ruth, I've thought about that possibility as well. I am at a point where almost NOTHING would completely surprise me concerning the truth of Trig's birth.

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Al
6/29/2011 20:45:32

On Feb 11,2008 Palin signed House Bill 29 into law. It was the "safe haven bill" that allowed parents to safely surrender a newborn child without the threat of prosecution. A month later on March 6, 2008 she announced her pregnancy.Kind of coincidental timing of the two events. Since CBJ was active with dealing with girls with unwanted pregnancies that bill would have cleared the way for SP to accept a child from one of CBJ's patients or from Bristol with a minimal amount of red tape or traceable paperwork.

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molly malone
6/29/2011 21:48:27

When concocting a false narrative people often include too many details in an attempt to lend greater verisimilitude to their story. In short, they over-think it. I believe that's what happened with the Wild Ride.

Had Palin actually prematurely given birth to Trig, a simple "Here's the baby," and if pressed, "Here's his birth certificate" would have sufficed; the rest was nobody's business. In fact, I suspect that Chuck and Sarah's creative embellishments caused some serious professional problems for CBJ.



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Jeanette 123
6/29/2011 22:05:00

Great Post!!!!!

I think the urgency of the Christmas picture in September did have to do with Track. He got caught for speeding on 9/6/07, was found guilty on 9/8 and entered the military (National Guard?) on 9/11. I think he went to Iraq in late September although that seems pretty quick after enlistment.

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comeonpeople
6/29/2011 22:08:30

Allie wrote to Banyon:
not sure what you mean by triple screen

Really? They've been around awhile thought they were very standard. It's done in the second trimester. It is a simple blood draw from the pregnant woman, testing AFP, HCG and estriol levels. It is only a screen for further testing if results abnormal. Abnormal results can be worrisome for neural tube defects, chromosomal abnormalities such as DS and also for inacurate pregancy dating.
I am surprised Allie is not familiar with this test that is pretty much standard for women over 35 who are pregnant. It may have another name she is familiar with?? Multiple marker screen??

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 22:29:27

I say "leave the children out of it" and "let's limit ourselves to 'Did Palin Hoax Us?' " more as a strategy for public acknowledgment of this hoax than as any kind of a complete statement of all that it involved.

If we were talking among ourselves, everything would be fair game, to discuss at least. Motivation, family dynamics, co-conspirators, etc. But we are on a public forum here. Yes, we have discussed all kinds of wild things in an attempt to understand this nutty scheme, and rightly so. But at this point as we head into the home stretch (I do sincerely hope), we don't want to overcomplexificationize the one point we want the nation to recognize: Palin Hoaxed Us. She lied. She used a handicapped child to further her political ambitions. She is a fraud.

So much of the rest of it may be true, may have lots of circumstantial evidence pointing to it, but it will probably never be proved, never be widely accepted because of that. Maybe someday, when the principals feel like writing honest memoirs. Not holding my breath! But we CAN prove Palin was not pregnant and hoaxed us.

I don't think this hoax is illegal, but it sure is sordidly, degenerately unethical and proves Palin's unfitness for office in a way that all the other Palingates do not because they are not only not proved, they are not even being investigated except by bloggers (to the best of my knowledge).

There are probably some peripheral illegalities like insurance issues? And some others. But to me those pale in comparison with hoaxing the electorate during a presidential election, and the enabling of that by the various guilty parties.

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Ottoline
6/29/2011 22:38:03

Martha Stewart went to jail for lying, not for what she did. Bill Clinton did nothing illegal but lied about it.

Ditto Palin: Lying on such a grand scale is the offense, and just because she was not under oath when running for VP does not mean she can perp a hoax.

Why should Stewart/Clinton be punished more than this ditzy, dangerous woman who (unlike Clinton and Stewart) has nothing to offer except "energizing the base" in dangerous, harmful ways. Ok, rant over.

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Up
6/29/2011 22:43:57

thank you for sharing your expert perspective.

I have a question relative to HIPAA and it's relation to the credibility of the comment you referenced re Palin's med history. It is my understanding That a provider is prohibited under HIPAA from denying that a patient had a procedure under that provider's care, if the provider is physician etc of that patient. Thus, since CBJ was Palin's doc she can't publicly say "I didn't deliver her 5th child.".

The exception is to defend oneself from malpractice accusations. I've been curious about the anon Wasilla h/c professional's comment. As you raise the issue of a patient safety/quality committee hearing, is this the type of "tearful confession".one might expect to hear from a doc in CBJ's position, and the hysterectomy the type of med record that would be reviewed as evidence? If so, in my mind this gives that commenter more credibility than I'd previously given him/her.

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Allie
6/29/2011 23:05:47

@comeonpeople - regarding the triple screen, I am used to it being called the AFP (alpha fetoprotein) or AFP+ (plus). It isn't diagnostic like an amnio is and my frame of reference was that SP had said she knew the diagnosis of Down syndrome. I guess I had kind of a brain fart there when Banyan mentioned it. :(

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Leona
6/29/2011 23:15:22

After seeing the new photos of Levi with the baby at the hospital, and the photo of Todd, Willow, and Piper with the baby at the hospital, and connecting these photos with the ones of Levi and Mercede (plus Sarah and Bristol) in the Palin's kitchen, and the photos of the baby at Kristan Cole's baby shower, I believe that the baby born on April 18 was Ruffles, and Ruffles was the biological child of Bristol and Levi (or some other guy?). I think there was never an amniocentesis. Rather, I think there was an ultrasound done partway through the pregnancy and that there may have been a conjecture that the baby had Down Syndrome, based on smaller than normal head measurements. However, when the baby was born, he/she did not have Down Syndrome, but instead exhibited features of some other syndrome/syndrome-like set of developmental anomalies (malformed pinnae, extra hole near the auditory canal, perhaps microcephaly, small for gestational age, perhaps other features). I would guess that Palin assumed the baby would have Down Syndrome, based on ultrasound results, and wrote the "God" letter to prepare family and friends. On April 17, Sarah received a phone call that Bristol was in labor. So, she and Todd flew home and arrived before or shortly after Ruffles' birth. Ruffles was named Trig, was a fragile baby, and perhaps died a few weeks later. That would have been a tragedy for Bristol, Levi, and the rest of the Palin + Johnston families, or whoever knew about it. I think a baby with Down Syndrome was then adopted by Sarah and Todd because everyone in Alaska knew that Sarah had "given birth" to "Trig" on April 18. Bristol and Levi conceived Tripp fairly soon after baby Ruffles disappeared/died.
Does this make sense?

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Lidia17
6/29/2011 23:19:55

@ginny11, I agree with you about “truth-weaving”, but here’s another way we could look at this: what if the things she’s talking about happened to Bristol? We already know she has a strange relationship with that girl: part competitor, part mini-me. Sarah could easily have “adopted” part of someone’s else’s story, just as she appears to have adopted someone else’s child. Maybe Bristol was the one who had been left alone to take a pregnancy test, consider aborting, and so forth… Sarah is like a magpie and will steal any attractive bits of scrap to construct her narrative.

@Rationalist, that is just too sad about Bristol. Levi may not be everyone’s idea of a prize, but to say that staying within Sarah’s destructive orbit is “having my head on straight” is just pathetic. She sounds like a cult member!!

@SLQ and @Allie, re: the “hallway photo”: yes, other pictures of couples from Mat-Su showed the same sort of decor. It is supposed to be one of the Labor and Delivery rooms. I have no trouble believing that in a small hospital of which Sarah had been a board member, they might have allowed some contingent of the Palin family to “borrow” an used room for their staged photo-op. Allie, yes, the whole thing was obviously staged. That baby needn’t have been a patient or even have been born at Mat-Su… all they needed was enough of a plausible cover that indicated he could have been. Chuck and Sally bring a baby into the hospital, camp out in one of the empty rooms long enough to be photographed, have Bristol sulking in the background… what’s the problem? It’s 6am in the boonies, at Sarah’s fundie church hospital. How many people really need to be the wiser?

@SLQ, do we have anyone besides Lori Tipton on record? I don’t recall a “news crew” saying anything, although there was obviously a cameraman and possibly a still photog there. Lori was the one who said that “they” said Sarah was sleeping, and so wasn’t to be disturbed. I believe Sarah was sleeping, all right… sleeping at home…

@Laura and everyone… I believe the carpool moms stories: they have a strong ring of truth to me. So I’m trying to figure out why Sarah would lie about a hysterectomy, turning it into a two-bull? …except maybe that hysterectomies sound old-lady-ish, while two-bulls are for the young-and-oh-so-fertile… That would fit into her pathology, I think.

@JR, I think Sarah’s wite-out abortions are her whiting them out, so that the records match with the story she needs to tell herself about herself. No medical professional would use wite-out on patient records, especially not to change medical nomenclature into layman’s terms.

@cuzIsaidso’s comments are important, and I remember that being discussed back when. Why would they need to take Xmas pics in Sept, four months ahead of time? Because by late October/early November (the earliest you might need them taken for some kind of magazine/publicity), Bristol would have been undeniably pregnant.

Also important, from the other thread, is the comment (I can’t remember who from, sorry) that teen boys are not going to wear real or fake wedding rings just for the heck of it. Many grown men don’t want to wear wedding rings, and a while back that was not even necessarily the common practice. I think both those kids in the photos with Levi are his, or he has been led to think that they are.

@Banyan, why would Sarah go to all that time, trouble, and expen$e when she has a daughter who keeps getting knocked up every year like clockwork? Sarah KNEW Bristol was sleeping around in the spring of 2007: http://www.palindeception.com/blog/2009/04/my-space-part-2.html

@Allie, I think Sarah just figured no-one would notice, just like no-one noticed Bristol’s green-sweater bump. She figured (correctly, as it turns out) that throwing on a jacket and scarf was an adequate pregnancy disguise and that no-one would notice that her own belly was square in her 8th month with Tri-G. Remember, this is a woman who showed up to an event with shoes two or three sizes too big. She is also mentally ill. You can’t consider her behavior in the same way that you would some criminal mastermind out of a movie… I mean, the intent is there, but she really is incapable of seeing what other people see when they look at her, or at Bristol. Yes, a sane person “could have” put Piper in front of Bristol, but Sarah is not sane. Sane people don’t fake pregnancies, just for starters… ;-)

@Anonfornow, yes, the dates the Palins give out are meaningless.

@mxm, I’m not sure how much of a red herring. We don’t really know what the missing piece is that Gryphen is referring to. It could be something real that he knows OR som

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Lidia17
6/29/2011 23:21:00

Ooops! I'm too chatty today.

----
@mxm, I’m not sure how much of a red herring. We don’t really know what the missing piece is that Gryphen is referring to. It could be something real that he knows OR something he was misled about…

@Punkinbugg, good point about the sports. Both Bristol and Levi had been on sports teams before the blessed event.

@PCG, interesting about the Hawaiian possibility. Did Levi ever go to Hawaii, ever mention having been there, that anyone knows of?

I never understood why she just didn’t move the family to Juneau. Why was she trying to run things out of Wasilla? What a waste with all these flights back and forth to the capitol.

@BBT, she actually wrote “Big laughs, more contractions.” Or at least that’s what Lynn Vincent wrote. But otherwise, yes, the implication is that she had been experiencing labor all the way from 4:00 the previous morning.

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mistah charley, ph.d.
6/29/2011 23:21:30

I want to express my agreement with Ottoline. I think it possible to establish, by a preponderance of the evidence, that Sarah is not Trig's birth mother and that her claim to be so is a lie that proves Palin's unfitness for office.

All the other speculation, about family dynamics, where the baby or babies came from, who's zooming who - it all gets fancy very quickly, in violation of Occam's Razor or the KISS Principle.

Sarah lied about being Trig's birth mother. That is all we know on earth, and all we need to know, and to demonstrate to whomever is willing to examine the evidence (sadly, many of the corporate media and other opinion leaders seem to be unwilling to examine said evidence.) If Sarah's star is fading fast, and her pernicious influence being sharply diminished, then maybe unmasking her lies becomes less important. It's still interesting as a sign of how "something is happening here, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?"

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SLQ
6/29/2011 23:41:31

Al: I think HB29 is unrelated and could be considered a red herring. I've seen it mentioned a number of times.

All states have such a bill (Alaska and Nebraska were the 49th and 50th states to pass them), and what they protect is a mother who doesn't want to or can't keep her child, but doesn't want to do it publicly. What it is designed to prevent is a mother killing her child or leaving it in a dumpster to avoid having anyone find out she was pregnant and had a baby. To avoid that scenario for desperate new moms, they can instead safely leave their baby, up to 21 days old, with a staff member at any hospital, fire station or emergency medical service provider in Alaska, without repercussions.

I think it's a huge stretch to presume the bill was signed to allow some young lady (whom the Palins knew about and who was planning to give her child to them) to leave her baby at a fire station or wherever. If they were already planning a private adoption, or if the mother was already aware of options to give her child up, which she would be if she was in contact with them or CBJ, there was no need for protection under this law.

Also, the timing is probably coincidental, given that the bill was introduced in the legislature in January 07 (I just looked it up). http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?bill=HB%20%2029&session=25

Just my two cents.

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Allie
6/29/2011 23:48:18

@Up

I believe your understanding of HIPPA is correct (I'll review my notes) since a caregiver cannot reveal info that can be tied to a specific patient which includes something other than a name. For example, if there is some other defining characteristic other than the name, you can't reveal private medical info. Let's say a patient is admitted who is 6'9" and in the elevator with strangers I say that we just admitted a guy who is 6-9 and just found out he has cancer and oh, guess what, his wife is in the elevator. That's a violation.

I don't think CBJ could make the statement as you phrased it because it would acknowledge medical info about a specific patient (that she was pregnant.) She MIGHT be able to say that she never treated SP (altho' we know that isn't true.) Bad example but you get the idea.

In your second example, let me distinguish between a committee meeting following the Wild Ride and the hysterectomy medical record. If we assume for a moment that the Wild Ride story is true, then I contend that CBJ's peers would have reviewed that chart and questioned her medical interventions. This is also true if the Wild Ride is false and the Sally Heath photo was staged as some have suggested and the facility was used to do it and no birth occurred on 4/18 because that baby doesn't look like a newborn. (see the neonatologist's thread.)

I believe the h/c professional and the hyster were in Anchorage so the MatSu committee would not have reviewed that chart. Also, with a hyster there would have been no Wild Ride.

I see where you are going with this line of thinking and I want to contemplate it.

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SLQ
6/29/2011 23:53:03

Lidia17: Here is what Lori Tipton said, “Sarah [Palin] was in another room, and they said that she was sleeping when we arrived. And so, we got a little bit of footage of Sally [Heath] holding Trig, and Chuck [Heath] standing next to her."

The pic of the Heath's definitely looks like a freeze frame of a video, as opposed to a still pic.

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SLQ
6/29/2011 23:54:12

Meant to add the link for Lori Tipton's statement: http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2008/12/in-defense-of-sarah-palin/207758/

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Lee
6/29/2011 23:56:30

As far as marriage licenses are concerned, in the state where I live they are published in the newspaper, in the county where its issued. Would that be a possiblity? Probably wouldn't find one in Alaska paper because folks would know the names but HI or CA, doubtful it would ring any bells for anyone.

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Allie
6/30/2011 00:16:50

@ anon55

I was just using reduced number of deliveries as an example of why she might have voluntarily changed her privilege status without any pressure.

Also, physicians apply for privileges very specifically and it isn't necessarily an all or none choice to curtail privileges. Let's say a urologist has privileges for 30 procedures, including the use of a laser. Something happens and his peers decide to restrict his laser privileges. He could still admit and do other procedures. Certainly, that isn't always the case. If there is a problem that other MDs think the best remedy is to cancel all privileges, then that would be done.

My understanding is that CBJ changed her OB privileges on June 1, 2008. I am suggesting that if the Wild Ride occurred as described by SP and CBJ participated in medically unsound decisions at SP's behest that that could have threatened her privilege status at MatSu.

BTW @ Blueberry

I took that whole thing about 'laughs and contractions' as bluster and an attempt at humor because of the report that she did not appear to be in contraction distress during her Seattle layover.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 00:23:58

What would a hospitals policy for someone, A doctor, a governor, using their facility for fraudulent purposes?

O.K. they might allow their rooms to be used for publicity purposes? A hoax? For a political coverup for powerful personages with connections (Mrs. Curtis Menard) on the hospital board? I don't know how she fits in, but I think I read she is connected in some way.

But used for a giant hoax on the public?

Shady doings.

Either Trig Palin was born to Sarah Palin on April 18th or he wasn't.

It is one or the other. It happened as Sarah Palin has put it out there, or it didn't happen, but was staged.

How could a hospital condone this?

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Allie
6/30/2011 00:31:14

I will be out for awhile, back this afternoon. Please continue the conversation. Great input. I believe that if it is going to be demonstrated that the pregnancy story that we have been presented doesn't stand up to serious scrutiny then we have to take the elements of the story and test them and take them out on a wild ride and determine where the falsehoods and the truth lie.

What could be more fun than that? :)

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 01:03:45

One of the things I want to ask Allie when she comes back later today is why would a healthy woman in her late 30's have a hysterectomy? I agree that the commenter on IM sounded authentic. As did the Too-Bull carpool moms. But a hyster. is a big operation, even if it's laparoscopic. Is there usually an underlying pathology for it? It's extreme for just birth control, isn't it?

Cracklin' Charlie, I had never thought of that theory, in that way. And it makes sense.

As for revoking privileges, it just seems to me that if you are a FP and you do deliver babies now and then, why would you pull your own ability to do that in particular? It sounds like what Allie said has legs: that the hospital reviewed the doc's standard of care, or lack of, and revoked based on that. As she said, their evidence must have been air tight and not arguable.

And finally, on the TV crew. NO reporters wander into hospitals and look for a room and appear with a camera. Most hospitals have media relations people. That's who you call to set this up. If a facility is too small, they put you in touch with a nursing supervisor. This crew had to be allowed in.

Unless Mat-Su is the wild, wild, west and they go all roguish up there, also too.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 01:16:47

Maybe someone, perhaps Laura could call the Mat Su publicity office and find what their policy is on staged events using their facility.

They won't say if Tripp was born there, or to who. They won't say who was the attending physican.

Might be they should get their cage rattled by some questions, outside of did Palin or didn't Palin pull off a politically motivated hoax.

They are covering themselves. And that is wrong, wrong, wrong. HIPAA is meant to protect people, not cover a FRAUD or HOAX.

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Viola
6/30/2011 01:17:40

Several things jump out from this discussion. We know that Sarah is impulsive. She's also narcissistic, which makes her blind to what others see. Whatever transpired, I believe, was flying by the seat of her pants-- and based on her past experience of getting away with whatever she wanted.

So that IF she did not make a big deal of Bristol being homeschooled (I'm a governor and Homeschooling Mom!) then there was a reason.

If she said she had amnio and contemplated abortion while away, it probably happened. Just not for her.
This is a woman who took an idea from a TV show, for God's sake. Everything about this hoax seems circumstantial and last minute, so yes, KISS.

So if Bristol and Levi didn't just get pregnant, but show up married to boot, then Sarah has to deal with the entire mess. A pregnant 16 yr old daughter, an unsuitable redneck son-in-law. Full on white-trashness. Then the baby is born DS, premature and with complications. It's all kept in the family while Sarah's wheels turn.

Meanwhile the VEEP possibility heats up, and Sarah remembers the Desperate Housewives episode (between april - nov 07) and hatches her plan. She enlists CBJ to help her, because, SP says, the DS baby will need more resources than the young couple can provide. Maybe she negotiates the hoax with CBJ, promising her something she wants, like the abandoned baby bill. . .

CBJ also must provide an interim baby on loan to pose as a newborn Trig. I have no idea why CBJ would comply with that, but she does.

A baby is found (abandoned?) and suddenly, it will all work on one particular Mat-Su shift change. CBJ tells Sarah, this is it. Now or never.

So there are two babies for a period of time, while Palin establishes the newborn Trig.

When they're finished with Ruffles, he/she is adopted out. And Trig steps in.

That's pretty darn simple. Except that the Johnstons know the truth. And what about Piper? Willow?
--

Yes to a detective finding marriage records!

Yes, Mat-Su hospital and CBJ may be in serious ethical breach by participating in such a hoax.

If Palin borrowed a baby for the hoax, that is CREEPY. THAT steps the sordid game up a notch.

Piper, Willow know. Sherry, Mercede, Levi know. CBJ knows. And whoever delivered Trig to Bristol knows.

Would Sarah encourage the young people to marry? I doubt it. I think they did it on their own. If so, they were too young to travel any distance, so they would have married in AK.

Thanks for letting me spit this out. This discussion encourages conjecture!

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 01:21:18

WHO IS YVONNE? WHY would she be a vindictive about Sarah Palin. I have never heard the name Yvonne before, but I don't read the comments at IM. I don't recall seeing that name here.

Jealous former friends, and Alaskans are liars, but Sarah Palin a proven liar isn't?

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 01:26:50

If Truth Please really is a Wasillian and really knows what is what, why not spit it all out here and get this over with.

Believe it or not, we as a group will find out the truth.

And we know it isn't pretty already.

Spit it out now. How hateful are her former friends in Wasilla?

Do tell.

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Lidia17
6/30/2011 01:28:25

"…the truest reason for all the hate" is that people are sad that Sarah wasn't spending as much time with them as she used to??

WOW! This has got to be Lou Sarah or someone else in her narcissistic brood. The delusion is strong in this one.

I have a lot of friends who have moved on in various ways, with whom I've lost touch. Some left me behind and some I left behind. I don't HATE any of them, nor would the fact that their life changed cause me to LIE about them. "Truth Please" has no idea what the meaning of friendship is.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 01:32:34

Consider the source. Do tell us more.

Someone else who knows the woman personally. Knows Bristol from Juneau?

Knows the teen gossip? Where Bristol worked? I don't see her stay at her Aunts house mentioned.

Truth Please. Do tell us more. Clear the air.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 01:38:59

"Hate" is a Palin meme.

No one elses here uses that word. Just as no one but Sarah used "retarded" for Trigg.

No one wanted her to abort her child. Who knew? Who knew he was DS but Sarah.

No one wants her kids dead.

No one wants to rape her kids here.

NO ONE.

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JJ
6/30/2011 01:40:13

@Leona - I don't think anybody had a baby April 18 but I do believe the baby handoff was premeditated for that date. The fact that SP told her security detail not to come to Texas but that Todd would handle it clinches that for me.

@Laura - reason for a healthy woman in her late 30's to have a hysterectomy - heavy heavy bleeding and/or growing fibroids

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 01:44:55

Comments now in Moderation. Trolls are here spreading much information under their various names. The A word about an R baby is not permitted here.

I'll keep a close eye on comments and approve them rapidly.

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Leona
6/30/2011 01:53:10

@ Laura Novak: There are reasons why a younger, pre-menopausal woman might have a hysterectomy, especially if she has decided she wants no more children. She may be having menorrhagia and/or dysmenorrhea. Sometimes these problems are symptomatic of adenomyosis, a condition in which endometrial tissue, which normally lines the uterus, is present within and grows into the muscular walls of the uterus. Although adenomyosis usually resolves after menopause, a younger woman might choose to have a hysterectomy to avoid years and years of pain and extremely heavy bleeding. Ob/Gyn MD's would approve of this procedure in this situation.

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rubbernecking
6/30/2011 02:20:26

What is the original source about the existence of perfusionist report from 2002? Is the "shitfire" comment copied from IM on Jun 2 the only source?

Doesn't silver's recent research undermine other parts of shitfire comments? shitfire said Tripp was not born at Matsu-Regional. Silver alerted us to a photo that suggests this statement is likely false. shitfire also told us Tripp was born "5 weeks after his announced birth." This is contradicted by Tripp's unsealed custody documents (http://www.alaskadispatch.com/sites/default/files/images/media/files/news/politics/palin_1.pdf) which says on p 7 that Tripp was born on 12/27/2008.

I'm also suspicious that shitfire waited until the end of a long comment to tell us he/she is certain Palin had complex surgery that left her infertile. This felt like someone writing a comment for dramatic impact.

People who legitimately want to help will act like Silver: post sources, explain thought processes, and allow others to evaluate the reliability of the assertions. I am very wary of people who post riddles for us.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 02:20:36

We must be hitting close to the truth somehow.

Close enough to make someone uncomfortable.

We haven't quite yet figured the jig saw puzzle all out, but we will.

Maybe the detective someone here knows will see the obvious answer to the riddle. Fresh eyes see the obvious.

I'll be interested in the next installment and what flotsum and jetsum wash up on shore from that discussion.

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Conscious at last!
6/30/2011 02:32:01

First, thank you Allie. Your contributions here are VERY helpful and important. I am learning a lot from this discussion.

Some one above mentions the Safe Haven Bill signed by SP and it's curious timing-- February 2008!!! I also remember that SP signed into law a bill that would allow parents of a stillborn baby to receive a birth certificate.

I suspect that both of these laws were opportunistically inserted into Alaska's
body of laws to somehow support the babygate hoax.

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 02:45:05

man, I go do pilates for an hour and there's a massive troll attack!

Viola - your scenario really makes sense to me.

I've emailed my detective friend just to see if she thinks there's any way to obtain the information. I'll let you know what she says.

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 02:46:30

Conscious: right! The stillborn birth certificate bill. I forgot about that.

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Karen
6/30/2011 02:49:51

Thanks, Allie, and Laura for continuing the discussion. I can't wait for the next installment.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 02:51:01

Rationalist, I thought your idea earlier was a fine one. Im thinking that you're thinking that if there was a valid marriage license, that would add credence to her likely having had a baby that early. Why would a boy wear one otherwise? But did SHE wear one?

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rubbernecking
6/30/2011 02:57:11

Bills requires years of legislative effort before a governor can sign it.

The AK House started working on a "Safe Surrender of Babies" law in 2006 (http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=24&bill=hb322).
The bill had to pass both the AK State House and AK State Senate before Palin could it into law.

Press release on billing signing: http://wayback.archive-it.org/1200/20090726121556/http://www.gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=878&type=1

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SLQ
6/30/2011 03:08:06

Just for the sake of the conversation regarding CBJ and her privileges at Mat-Su Regional, here is her statement in the letter to the campaign:

"I was on active status at Mat-Su Regional from 1985 to June 1, 2008. I changed status in order to devote more time to my work in the area of child sexual abuse and prevention."

I don't have any idea what privileges she had (OB, general, etc.) so it's hard to say what she gave up.

(Also, too, why would she include this information in the letter about $arah's health?)

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anonfornow
6/30/2011 03:11:38

I know some people think we shouldn't be trying to figure out who did birth Trig, only to prove that Sarah did not. Unfortunately, I suspect the only way we will ever prove that is by showing who did birth Trig, hence the need to look at Bristol's activity. Given that the girl has now written a book about her sex life and gone on national TV to talk about its most intimate details, we can hardly be accused of prying into her private life: she's put her womb and other body parts out there as a topic of discussion.

We've talked a lot about a certain baby's ruffled ear when trying to decipher this hoax, but I think it's also important to look at Sarah's ears and the ears of the DS child most frequently presented as Trig. Sarah has a very, very distinctive, peculiar ear shape, and we see this ear in the toddler Trig. Someone in the Heath family birthed the DS child now known as Trig, whether it was Bristol or one of Sarah's sisters. (Obviously, my money is on Bristol.) A lot of people are still suggesting Sarah adopted a random DS baby from some stranger. No way! Look at Trig's ears, look at Sarah's ears, and you'll know he's no stranger's child.

Having said that, the hospital photos recently released by Mercede have confused me. I believe they show Levi with a newborn, premature Trig, the same fragile Trig we see just a few weeks later in the photos taken in the Palin kitchen. Only, if that is Trig, then why did were the Heaths photographed presenting an older substitute baby to the press? These photos seem to upset my own theory, that Trig was born very premature in December.

Again, I think it might be helpful to look at the two baby photos leaked by the hacker of Sarah's email account. Those two photos are the only two (besides Mercede's Triggy Bear photos) that the Palins never meant to be seen by the public, and I suspect they may be the reason Sarah went ballistic over the hacking. The size of that baby, and the non Trig-like features of the baby's face, are confusing.

As to the questions about fraud, it would seem to me that selling a book full of lies, and earning $100,000 a pop for speeches based on those lies, and using those lies to solicit donations, constitutes fraud.

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Conscious at last!
6/30/2011 03:13:10

@ rubbernecking-

Yes, of course bills must pass both houses first. But there are ways for the executive to encourage their legislative point people to move a bill along or to squash it.

I don't know what actually happened here, but the coincidence of both of these bills being signed into law by our girl- Ms. Half Term(i.e. in such a short period of time) is hard to ignore.

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 03:17:17

rubbernecking: good point. Okay, then those bills are a coincidence.

Laura: I have never seen evidence Bristol had a ring. But then again, she was AWOL for months, with no photographs. She could have had a ring then.

I'm thinking Bristol and Levi got knocked up and impulsively got married without telling Sarah. That's why it was ok for him to be living at the house. But it wasn't ok for the outside world to know, and that's why Sarah convinced them to give the baby up for adoption.

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voiceinwind
6/30/2011 03:20:28

Thanks, Laura. I was confused there for a moment. Great post!

And thank you so much, Allie, for sharing your expertise.

Allie, regarding leakage, you said, "Not always, however, particularly if it’s just a small leak or has sealed over."

I experienced two pregnancies with leakage before going into labor. So, I am curious about a leak being sealed over. It just seems to me that once screechy allegedly experienced a leak, all that standing around in heels and giving a speech and walking through the hotel and airports and even wearing all those seat belts would have increased leakage or onset of labor. Am I wrong?

Also, what is your opinion of that baby in the recent found photo showing screechy's youngest daughter holding a baby in a blue blanket? In other words, the head of the baby seems so small, does that look like a six pound baby to you?

And thanks for mentioning that photo where her oldest daughter was wearing a green top. I did not believe that photo was from 2006 because of the maturity of the faces of the other two girls and the little one was wearing summer clothing. I think it was made weeks before the September family photos. I do think it's odd that the oldest daughter was standing out in front sideways in those family photos. As a matter of fact, that's where my eyes focus when I look at those photos, on the oldest daughter. Needless to say, I am puzzled why screechy allowed those photos in the public. But when I looked at that photo made from that music video in NYC in October, I didn't see a normal increase or gain. I can't find that photo to share. And I didn't keep a link, but in those emails recently released there are a couple of emails from September 2007 discussing Brestol's powder puff football game. Totally confusing to me.

Anyway, sorry for rambling...thanks for all your thoughts and opinions!

Keep up the good work, Laura!

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 03:21:32

SLQ, what I also find odd in that statement is this: Does one have to revoke a privilege at a hospital just because one is doing more work of another kind at another site?

What if one of her current patients needed to be admitted for some reason.

It strikes me as TMI when no one really asked.

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comeonpeoplel
6/30/2011 03:30:33

Linda Menard was and still is on the MatSu board I believe. I do believe also that Sarah, CBJ and Menard were secure in their positions as bigwig Alaskans and fundies in 2008 to pull off the hoax. It really seems as if it is very rogue-ish up there in Wasilla. However, there WERE JCAHO complaints made against MatSu related to the alledged birth in an ill -equipped facility. There musthave been be a few ethical above board and/ or very scared hospital admins who Had to do something to avoid sanctions while still protecting Sarah and her hoax. I've checked MatSu website periodically over these last years and there has been alot of work done on making their ethics statement more prominent as well as adding a compliance officer and compliance statement. So, all this is enough to convince me that MatSu and CBJ were slapped on the hand but the hoax was not revealed. We need real real investigative journalists to ask MatSu admins point blank in public and ask the elusive CBJ point blank in public what gives. Because something gave , but not enough to expose the hoax yet.
Also,other thoughts, I'm not convinced yet on the need for a perfusionist for a hysterectomy for Palin. I have tossed the idea about about an attempted abortion or earlier miscarriage but the fetus lived, but it was just a fleeting thought. I think Bristle likely had little to no early prenatal care, had the fAS baby, Sarah saw the opportunity for a DS switch and went for it.

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Word
6/30/2011 03:38:02

I had a hysterectomy in my thirties due to fibroids, no oophorectomy. I was not allowed to drive for a few weeks and I was not cut for the surgery. Perhaps Sarah called it a tubal because she thought the hysterectomy made her less of a women. Some women feel that way. I didn't... best thing I ever did. I already had the all of the children I wanted and was sick of all the problems.

On another note, I recently saw a friend I had not seen in a while. She had a obvious baby bump. She is thin and normally has flat abs. She only eats bird size meals several times a day. I forgot how many weeks pregnant she was (less than 20). She just had a check up and the Dr told her the baby was the size of a jumbo shrimp. Yet her bump was obvious and everyone knew she was pregnant.

Sarah's "tight abs" ... don't think so.

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rubbernecking
6/30/2011 03:40:08

Go figure. There's a $$$-making racket that pitches abstinence/purity rings to teenagers.

Some of these outfits actually get federal funds! See: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03344/249392.stm

I think exchanging promise rings is fairly common among young teens in some Christian sects. In other demographics, teens choose the Married status on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Laughing-at-kids-with-a-relationship-status-as-married-who-then-break-up).

I was recently astonished when I noticed that a friend's teen son changed his FB status to Married. She told me it was very common request of girlfriends. These kids attended a top-notch high school. We both laughed how we couldn't imagine anyone doing this when we were in HS.

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Punkinbugg
6/30/2011 03:47:15

Regarding Mat-Su, Lily said something interesting, "... They are covering themselves. And that is wrong, wrong, wrong. HIPAA is meant to protect people, not cover a FRAUD or HOAX."

HIPAA is meant to protect PATIENTS.

If Sarah Palin was NEVER a PATIENT, it doesn't cover HER..., right?

Can the hospital say, truthfully, that she was not a patient? Or is that covered under HIPAA?

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 03:53:01

Do we have any idea whether Levi is member of the Palins' church? I'm guessing not.

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rubbernecking
6/30/2011 03:59:02

@Rationalist, I'm unfamiliar with the stillborn bill. I haven't researched it. As for "Safe Haven," Palin seems to have waited 6-wks to sign it after the Senate passed it. I first looked into Safe Haven because I was also intrigued that she signed the bill in the time of her allegedly secret pregnancy. So far, I haven't able to find anything to suggest she was heavily involved in pushing the bill.

I'll poke around and see what history I can find for the stillborn law. It's completely unknown to me.

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SLQ
6/30/2011 03:59:54

Laura -- good point. Why revoke privileges, even if you think you might have need of them for a patient? Is there a cost involved that would outweigh the benefit of keeping them? What other reason would there be?

To me, it seems that the whole letter was written to refute theories being discussed on the internet. As far as I know, the campaign didn't question CBJ's hospital affiliation. In fact, the letter says she had privileges when Trig was "born," as they did not end until June 1 of that year. So there was no need to explain that she later gave up her privileges, right?

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jeff
6/30/2011 04:08:03


Allie, Laura, et al,

Thanks so much for the thoughtful input and information.

I have nothing tangible to add, but I did want to mention some details for the time parameters surrounding the event.

The wild ride allegedly commenced on Thursday afternoon from DFW on April 17th with both Todd and Sarah's flight arriving at ANC at approx 10:30 PM local time.

[Sarah's outbound flight had originated from Juneau (bc of end of AK Legislative session) to DFW and Todd's flight originated in ANC. I am uncertain if they were on the departing flight together out of ANC, but assumed they would make that connection together, or possibly meet in Seattle with continuation to DFW.]

Anyway, assuming Todd had their personal vehicle at the airport at ANC, by the time they picked up luggage and drove to Mat-Su Hosp, they could've arrived at 11:30 PM.

The story continues with CBJ inducing and Sarah giving birth at approx 6:30 AM on Friday morning, April 18. Sarah alleges that she signed the "eyeglass bill" that same day, although there is evidence to the contrary on the AK Legislative site that shows it was signed on April 19th. If she did in fact sign the bill that day, she would've had to have seen someone from her office.

I don't know if these details make any difference in the scenarios y'all are considering, but I just wanted to point out that this activity was supposedly occurring during the Monday-Friday workweek instead of during the weekend.

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V
6/30/2011 04:30:19

Here's a link to the MatSu health foundation board of directors. It might be interesting to see if they have ties to the Palins or not.

http://www.matsuhealthfoundation.org/boardofdirectors.php

Do these people care about the reputation of their facility?

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 04:36:19

LOL..

Perhaps Levi was wearing an abstinense ring. I don't know if they look all that different than a usual wedding band.

A commitment ring? I can't see a young boy wanting to commit unless they had some pressing reason to do so.

Levi liked the girls and the girls liked Levi.

Doesn't she talk about his straying, having a girl wear his coat, and more than flirtations but outright one nite stands? She was a very jealous girl, and wanted him branded as hers.

She continues to act like a jealous former wife instead of a girl who played around herself.

Typically Palin. I do as I want, but you can't.

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Leona
6/30/2011 05:06:19

Is it possible that the baby being held by the Heaths is actually Piper, from several years ago?

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Floyd M. Orr link
6/30/2011 05:08:57

Leona, your scenario falls very closely with the one I think is the most likely. I have a question for you, though. If, as you say, Ruffles was born to Bristol on 4/18/08, was Frank Bailey just plain lying about seeing a healthy Bristol napping on a couch in the hospital waiting room? My opinion is that Ruffles was born a number of days or a few weeks earlier than that. The 4/18 date was the day Sarah and Todd were called to the hospital to take custody of Round Ear Trig and show him off to the media. Frank may not be telling the whole truth about that day, but I tend to believe the part he wrote in Blind Allegiance.

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jeff
6/30/2011 05:12:02


Laura,

If the cost of malpractice insurance either comes close to or exceeds the income potential, or if coverage limits are increased due to a location being poorly equipped or having a bad rating on some procedures, then CBJ might choose to forego performing some procedures at some or all locations.

Todd and Sarah said CBJ did LOTS of labor/deliveries, but I have heard to the contrary that she had done very few in the previous year or so prior to the wild ride.

But I agree with those who has felt the timing of her change in status is particularly interesting... in that, if Sarah carried her baby to term, she would have barely come in under the wire for CBJ to perform the obstetrics. In other words, if I weren't sure that my doc was even going to be available to do a known upcoming procedure on me, then I wouldn't wait until they had made a change, cancelled their malpractice insurance to avoid add'l premiums or whatever else to switch to a new doc for my high-risk procedure.

It also (,too) did seem very peculiar to me that CBJ would include that information in that type of letter, since they didn't ask for CBJ's STATUS. Why would the RNC, mesia, or electorate CARE what CBJ was doing? If her license had been revoked at the time or she had been censured or suspended but asked to write the letter, perhaps the inclusion of that information would be necessary for inclusion, since it might reflect on her authority to give a green light on Palin's health. But the way the letter is as written, the inclusion of that info makes it seem even more like it was edited prior to releasing it at the 11th hr on the eve of the '08 election.

In my opinion, nothing about this letter--- neither the substance, timing, nor content--- pass the smell test.

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Conscious at last!
6/30/2011 05:16:30

@ rubbernecking

Could you please share your sources regarding the Safe Haven Bill?

Also, how could you find something that might tell you what one of SP's enforcers whispers to one of her legislative folks?

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 05:18:45

I agree with all that you say, Jeff.

But allow me to ask this: What if CBJ were, simply put, a bad doctor? What if it all boils down to the fact that she simply allowed this patient to fly under these circumstances? And then the hospital censored her for it.

Though too many other pieces don't add up for that to be the case.

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Jeff
6/30/2011 05:24:19


@Floyd @leona


Hi Floyd,

Were u addressing the still pic off the vid that the NBC affiliate had their banner on w Chuck, Sally and baby?

If so, it couldn't have been Piper at Mat-Su bc Mat-Su Hosp wasn't open when Piper was born?

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Blade link
6/30/2011 05:25:06

Regarding the hallway photos, I wrote a post on the subject on my blog,
http://shesnohockeymom.blogspot.com/.

A reader, who lives in the area, sent this information to me.

FROM A READER:

I will clear up some confusion for you and your readers as to the exact location the Heath/Newborn Trig photos. Go to: http://www.ktuu.com/community/ktuu-welcometoalaskatrigpaxso-8194634,0,5629481.story Look at the photo of Grandpa Heath standing by himself. Notice the "admittance window" to his left in the background & the artwork on the wall to his right. This is the main lobby of the Birthing Center. Now look at the photo of Grandma & Grandpa Heath holding Trig. See the ruffled curtains & the red furniture? That is one of six, Labor-Delivery-Recovery-Postpartum rooms. I have done extensive research regarding the exact location where these photos were taken. I can 100% guarantee they were taken at Mat-Su Regional Hospital both in the birthing center lobby & in a labor/delivery room.

I think my reader is correct on the locations where the photos were taken. What has never made sense is the absence of Sarah in pictures with the newborn baby.

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Katie Taylor
6/30/2011 05:35:14

Laura, you and your posters here have done an excellent job summarizing all the circumstantial evidence that points to a Palin birth hoax. Something that has always struck me and served to be the final thing that convinced me that Sarah is not Trig's birth mother is this:
We have seen countless pictures of family and friends holding Trig supposedly right after his birth in a hospital setting. Is there a single photo ANYWHERE of Sarah holding the newborn Trig? Does anyone believe that given her tendency for self serving martyrdom that she would fail to publish a picture of herself beaming right after birth holding her DS baby from her hospital bed before she immediately went back to the business of sending out messages on her Blackberry that day? This simply doesn't pass the smell test. If there was such a photo it undoubtedly would have been included in one of the various books written about her since Trig's birth.

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 05:37:13

To me, one of the most damning things in the palin emails is the evidence that palin did not have CBJ's contact information early in 2008. That's a direct contradiction to CBJ's letter, wherein she claims palin pursued a regular course of prenatal care.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 05:40:22

Good point, Katie. The only thing I can think of to be generous is that she looked wrung out and didn't want any photos. But still, no one expects a new mom to look great. And even so, what about Todd holding him? Especially to debunk the rumors.

And thanks for sharing that with us, Blade. I know you've done a lot of good work on this subject.

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jeff
6/30/2011 05:44:03


Mat-Su Regional Med. Ctr. opened in
Jan-2006

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Katie Taylor
6/30/2011 05:45:47

Being somewhat familiar with credentialing processes for physicians let me say that physicians do not give up hospital privileges "voluntarily" without there being more to the story. For one thing, insurance companies require that they maintain hospital privileges to be in networks. The fact that she may not have been doing much work at the hospital would not be a reason to give them up. Without them she could not treat any of patients admitted to Mat-Su hospital, surgically or otherwise. A final comment about Dr. Carol. If Sarah had a tubal or hysterectomy in her past then Dr. C. lied in the letter she presented documenting Sarah's health history where she stated I believe that the only medical procedure Sarah had had in the past was child birth.

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Laura Novak
6/30/2011 05:54:25

Thanks for that Katie. It does seem implausible in many ways.

Rat., can you access that email? You know, 16 years later I STILL know the phone number for my OB and I STILL know the phone number for the pediatric surgeon for our son. Two numbers I'll never, ever forget!

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jeff
6/30/2011 05:56:08


If any of you haven't seen the wasilla project videos on sarah, here's a link to a page with all 4 vids.
Definitely worthwhile, IMO.

http://wasillaproject.typepad.com/

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Banyan
6/30/2011 05:57:15

@ Lydia17 who asked about the hassle and expense of IVF:

Absolutely, it would cost a lot. But I suspect there were some very deep GOP-Dominionist pockets involved with the Palin Pregnancy Hoax. I also know a number of not terribly wealthy aging parents who've succeeded at IVF/surrogacy.

Although, I'm not at all convinced that anything as convoluted as IVF was involved here, I know of a number of similar situations in my own family and among my friends and high-risk parents I have counseled.

The only "difference" is that these people selected IVF babies with normal chromosome counts.

This is a real issue with aging eggs. One of the moms, in her mid-40s when she gave birth, told me all her fertilized eggs except two had DS or other chromosomal abnormalities.

The IVF scenario would explain why "Trig" --at least one "Trig" -- has ears similar to Sarah's.

It would also allow Sarah to "prove" by DNA analysis that the baby was "hers." if it ever came to that.

It would also explain (for me, at any rate) Bristol's odd comments in 2007 that her mother was scared she was pregnant (if Bristol was to be used as a surrogate, this would rule her out and would utterly wreck at least part of Sarah's plan) and that she (Bristol) was going to have to play "mother duck to that baby."

The use of surrogacy to raise IVF embryos has also been a major, recurring theme in Republican R-T-L politics -- remember George W. Bush hosting the group of super-moms who had gestated the so-called "snow flake" babies?

@Allie who mentioned it would be hard to get Sarah's aging eggs to "take" in an IVF scenario.

Yes, it would have been difficult, though many moms I know have had it work -- and these were all women in their 40s.

FWIW, they almost all had preemies and many of the pregnancies ended up posing major physical risks even among the pregnancies that used surrogate moms.

I think if IVF were used, multiple attempts would have been made using multiple surrogate mothers, with Bristol (possibly) as one of them. Then, if a Baby Hoax were later suspected or discovered, Sarah could claim she was simply trying to cover up for her daughter-- and she would still get right-to-life "cred" for her "noble" act.

The Plot seems to have been first have been considered in early 2006.
(See Bailey's book , p. 209, where Palin asks Bailey what people would think about a pregnant governor in the governor's mansion in Juneau).

The plan could then put into action in 2007 in time to have a new DS baby (or two or three) available for the convention.

Personally, the only thing I think I know here (based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence) is that Sarah Palin DID NOT give birth to any baby at Mat-Su Hospital on April 18, 2008.

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SLQ
6/30/2011 06:01:41

Katie & Laura: Agreed. When discussing Sarah's refusal to provide any tangible proof to refute these rumors about her daughter, I think it's important to note what she did provide: that very daughter's teen pregnancy, heralded to the world at the RNC. I can understand balking on releasing your child's birth certificate, but not at the expense of your teen daughter. I can even (maybe) understand refusing to release a less-than-flattering photo of yourself with your newborn child, though it would be the height of vanity to withhold that photo in lieu of throwing your teen daughter under the bus.

It makes no sense whatsoever to withhold a simple photo of your husband holding the newborn, or even the typical newborn photos (in the warming tray, etc.) Not when the price your teen daughter has to pay is so extremely high.

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SLQ
6/30/2011 06:06:37

Rationalist: I saw that e-mail, too, and I think it's very important.

Laura -- until Rat. finds the link, the gist, if I remember correctly, was that Sarah wanted to recommend two people (doctors, nurses?) for some board, and sent an e-mail to her staff asking them to contact CBJ for information. She did not have the contact information for CBJ, so she noted to her staff who they could contact to get CBJ's contact info. (Or something to that effect -- it might have been her staff asking if she was ok with the recommendations, and she mentioned CBJ, but had no contact info.)

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Jeff
6/30/2011 06:09:58



Thanks, Blade. RIGHT, Where IS Sarah?

I haven't seen a pic of Brisket that day either, although I think that Frank Bailey saw her asleep on the couch in one of the rooms, too?

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laura Novak
6/30/2011 06:12:54

Sounds like she was very angry at that daughter. Punishing, rather then protecting her.

Musta been for something pretty bad. Cracklin' Charlie, you're on!

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Leona
6/30/2011 06:20:15

from the Journal of the American Academy of Family Physicians:

Alaska Physician Chosen AAFP Family Physician of the Year

The American Academy of Family Physician's (AAFP) Congress of Delegates named Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, M.D., a practicing family physician from Wasilla, Alaska, the 2002 AAFP Family Physician of the Year for her 17 years of delivering quality and compassionate care to the people of Alaska. Dr. CBJ, as her patients affectionately know her, has been routinely commended for her volunteer work and community advocacy, and received the Alaska First Lady's award for outstanding volunteerism in 1999. She is the founder and volunteer medical director of the Children's Place, an agency for children who have been victims of physical or sexual abuse, and volunteers her time at the Valley Sexual Assault Response Team in Alaska and the Alaska Statewide Children's Advocacy Center Working Group. “Alaska is a better state for having Dr. CBJ as our Alaska Family Physician of the Year (2001),” said Sarah H. Palin, mayor of Wasilla. “Dr. CBJ's sincere love for her profession, her patients and her community deserve (the highest) honor.” In her first few years in practice, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson started “Health Care with a Heart,” which allowed her practice to offer free care to patients on Valentine's Day. Dr. Baldwin-Johnson received her medical degree from the University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, where she has been a clinical instructor since 1987, and completed a family practice residency at the Swedish Hospital Family Practice Residency Program, Seattle.

(I think CBJ was nominated by Sarah Palin.)

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Jeanette123
6/30/2011 06:22:12

Many connected the fire at Sarah's church with loosing adoption records and that may be true. It may also be that marriage records were lost at that same time.

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Leona
6/30/2011 06:27:05

Sometimes I think it might help to remember a couple of things:
(1) Sarah Palin is not capable of planning anything complicated ahead of time.
(2) The simplest explanation (re: Bristol & Trig) may be the true explanation.

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SLQ
6/30/2011 06:27:05

Laura: I think Margaret Cho hit the mark when she reported that Bristol was forced to do DWTS because she owed her mother. It seems she is doing quite a lot of things as penance.

"Sarah supposedly blames Bristol harshly and openly (in the circles that I heard it from) for not winning the election, and so she told Bristol she 'owed' it to her to do 'DWTS' so that 'America would fall in love with her again' and make it possible for Sarah Palin to run in 2012 with America behind her all the way," Cho wrote on her blog.

I suspect her "sins" go back further than the election and her pregnancy with "Tripp," as she started out the election under the bus.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 06:27:33

While there was much gossip about Bristol prior to Sarah Palin publicly stating she was pregnant, where was Bristol a few months prior to the Governors announcement or after. Photographed anywhere?

I think the Palin shooting star has fizzled out if the mall signing event was as much of a dud as Wonkette reports. Sounds like a wake up call for the Palins.

A few teen or young adult males who seem a bit swish (not ment to be a derogatory statement), were interviewed as they waited since 6 a.m. to see Sarah Palin. Perhaps Sarah is on her way to drag queen status with boys. She has something of a drag queen vampy quality to her facade.

Her poll numbers are falling to single digits in the presidential polls.

I feel better, but will keep watch here and elsewhere hoping that the truth will eventually come out, thus sealing her fate. A hoax.

From the sweating she did at Pella, I think she is going into menapause and will become even scattier in her statements as her hormones shut down shop.

If she hadn't pretended to be the bold and impossibly brassy Frontierswoman mom, and told the wild ride story I doubt people would have jumped on the story quite as vigorously. I recall the domplete disbelief many expressed at that time.

Whatever.

Sarah is like liars, and her lies will catch up to her. If she was satisfied with celebrity I would shrug it all away as baloney. As a possible candidate for POTUS, I care a great deal.

I'm still waiting for the missing month of December e-mails, and what they contain.

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 06:44:53

Laura - it's this one:

http://palinemail.msnbc.msn.com/palinAll/pdf/11578.pdf

Why would she need her assistant to ask cbj for information about an invitation? Surely CBJ would have been in Palin's blackberry if she were receiving prenatal care on a fetus with diagnosed Down Syndrome.

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jeff
6/30/2011 07:03:30

Banyan,

That was very, very odd to me, also, too. The wheels were turning in her mind about something somehow related to all of this, for her to ask Frank about what others would think of the Gov being pregnant at that time. But given it was that far in advance, I can't make a direct connection, unless she thought a very young Bristol might be prego already in 2006.

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Molly
6/30/2011 07:05:56

I think Cracklin' Charlie may be onto something as regards Bristol giving birth to the two boys earlier on. The photos lend credence to that and the wedding ring does too. Can anyone remember when Sarah asked Bailey how he would feel about the Governor having a baby? This may be around the time Sarah discovered Bristol was pregnant for the first time. I seem to remember it was very early on.

The fact that Bristol got pregnant a second time would be reason enough in Sarah's mind to hang her out to dry at the RNC.

I have always been suspicious of Bristol's pregnancy at the RNC. She was a slim girl the week before and she suddenly morphed into a very heavily pregnant girl. I honestly believe Sarah made Bristol go through the charade of pretending to be pregnant during the campaign.

Remember when Audrey started questioning Bristol's pregnancy back in August,2009 - she was threatened and discontinued her blog.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 07:07:40

Molly, Brad and I are trying to get to that. We are working on a post. And Jeff and Banyan, I will try to dig up some notes I have from talking to someone in Wasilla. They might shine some light on that topic.

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Leona
6/30/2011 07:26:38

Someday, when she is perhaps in her 40's, Bristol is going to need a LOT of therapy. Her mother has been cruel to her in so many ways, parading her around at the RNC in 2008, padding her horrible dress to make her look not only pregnant but dowdy and pregnant. Perhaps the upper padding was because Bristol was still breastfeeding the baby, but the padding on her front was cruel. Then, DWTS, yuck. Then the book, yuck.
Dear Bristol, Please wake up and smell the coffee. Live your own life. You may feel beholden to "Mommy Dearest", but you need to get away physically and emotionally, grow up, get educated, and move on. The Heath-Palin family failed you.

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comeonpeople
6/30/2011 07:32:06

Back to CBJ (one of my favorite past times, sigh)..
As a family practice physician who had delivered not many babies in 2008 (I read three somewhere, sorry don't remember where), CBJ would need alot of comtinuing medical education as well as practice doing c-sections to have ability to practice as a high risk ob. It truly is Mind Boggling to think that a FPP would even attempt it without proper recent recertification....the malpractice insurance for a regular high risk OB is astronomical. If Palin was truly pregnant (she wasn't) and if there had been a complication and a death, imagine the lawsuit. CBJ and Matsu would be financially screwed if there was a lawsuit, which there could have been if lil old Sarah or lil Tri-G were damaged from a physician practicing outside her scope and botching it and for a hospital allowing it.
Did. Not.Happen.
Did. Not. Happen.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 07:34:34

I'm not sure an FP can do surgery. In fact, I'd say likely not. If a patient needs a C-Section, I imagine the OB on duty would do it. That's my guess. Perhaps Allie can weigh in on that.

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MicMac
6/30/2011 07:34:39

In response to the query regarding MatSu board members potential ties to the Palin family, you need to go back in time to get the names of those sitting on the board in April 2008. There have been a number of changes since then.

I did find such a 2008 photo, with all the names, and researched them. I did not find anything that jumped out, but perhaps an Alaskan with more knowledge can look into this.

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MicMac
6/30/2011 07:38:09

http://www.matsuhealthfoundation.org/PDFs/MSHFAnnualReport08Web.pdf

You need to read some of this report to realize that some of the people pictured may not have been sitting in April 2008, as there were additions to the board throughout the year. Linda Menard was the Interim Director throughout 2008.

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Melly
6/30/2011 07:41:04

K Taylor--"We have seen countless pictures of family and friends holding Trig supposedly right after his birth in a hospital setting. Is there a single photo ANYWHERE of Sarah holding the newborn Trig? Does anyone believe that given her tendency for self serving martyrdom that she would fail to publish a picture of herself beaming right after birth holding her DS baby from her hospital bed before she immediately went back to the business of sending out messages on her Blackberry that day? This simply doesn't pass the smell test. If there was such a photo it undoubtedly would have been included in one of the various books written about her since Trig's birth."

No pix of her holding Trig at Mat-Su, no footage of her holding him on that first visit to Anchorage, when she was poking him in the face while Todd held him. No pix of her holding Ruffles in the kitchen photos. When she's holding him, she looks at the camera, not at him.

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Molly
6/30/2011 07:41:19

Thanks Laura...I am looking forward to that. I'm just trying to get my head around the fact that Bristol may have had two earlier babies!

I found the relevant quote in Bailey's book and it was early in 2006. That would mean that Bristol may have given birth late 2006/early 2007. So it is probably unlikely that this comment has any bearing on anything. Trig was big at the RNC but he was definitely not a year and a half!

However, I did get the feeling from having read the book that Bailey wasn't ready to hang Sarah out to dry. He made several comments about Bristol that were very kind. I felt that he was very protective of her so I would not be surprised to see him fudge a few dates.

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punkinbugg
6/30/2011 07:49:20

I asked my hubby, who once worked for a cardiothoracic surgical dept at a major university hospital, in what cases would a perfusionist be required. All answers had to do with the heart, vascular system, organ transplants, etc. Nothing on his list was OB/GYN-related. Strange.

Also -- After we were done with having children, our OB/GYN recommended a vasectomy for the hubby vs. a tubal for me. He said the man's procedure is 100x less dangerous. Hub's appt was for a Monday, and the Friday before, I had to have an emergency hysterectomy due to severe endometriosis. I was 35 years old. Lucky guy!

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SLQ
6/30/2011 07:49:47

MicMac, wasn't Linda Menard on the Board at Mat-Su? I think I remember seeing that.

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comeonpeople
6/30/2011 08:05:44

@Laura,
If you read AAFP practice standards, they are allowed to do c-sections if IF IF IF they keep up with their CME AND perform a minimal amount of c-sections a year.
I doubt CBJ met these requirements.

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comeonpeople
6/30/2011 08:10:27

@SLQ
Linda Menard is still on the MatSu board of Directors:

http://www.matsuregional.com/About/Pages/Board%20of%20Directors.aspx

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jeff
6/30/2011 08:15:37

@micmac
linda menard is curtis menard, sr 's wife. The evangelical community made a concerted effort to "stack the deck" of all the hospital boards to make access to abortions impossible. If you see my post above with the "wasilla project", that's what is on one of the 4-5 min videos. The wasilla project was the organized pushback to inform the community of what Sarah was all about prior to the 2008 election. These people KNEW she was bad news and a FRAUD.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 08:15:48

Bristol is a mini me of Sarah and now is her puppet.

Let's not give her credit for insights into her own psyche.

she may be a decent mother in giving Tripp love and care.Other than that she is messing as much with Tripp as her mother messed up with her. Bristol is putting her own ego needs first.

Levi may not be a prize, or a white knight, but he isn't a monster..

Bristol hasn't come across well in her memoirs if you go by comments.

The bots excuse everything Palin, but most Americans aren't Palin bots.

Levi will tell his own story by September. Until then we won't know what went down.

Neither of them was ready for the responsablity of a adult marriage.

They were kids playing house with tragic consequences. Trig? Ruffles?

Mrs Johnson was so relieved Tripp was O.K. perfect. Why?

So we are trying to figure out exactly what did happen with these two and their offspring given Mama Grizzleys interferance.

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Banyan
6/30/2011 08:24:23

@ Leona and @ Jeff:

No, Palin can't plan anything ahead. On her own.

But there were almost certainly others planning this for her.

Her whack job Dominionist cult with its deep GOP ties, had proclaimed her the new "Queen Esther," prayed over her to guard her from witches, and told her she had a sacred role to play -- A Mission From God to Fulfill-- as a powerful leader, ushering in "End Times." And that was well before the Hoax began.

What Palin's handlers may not have fully appreciated is how incredibly stupid and careless Sarah can be (saying what she did to Bailey, for example). And failing to wear her fake pregnancy suit much of the time she was pretending to be pregnant, and making up the incomprehensible "Wild Ride" details, etc.

Her Dominionist and Right-Wing power broker/handlers DO plan long-term.

Jeff Sharlet's "The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power." recounts the history of the "C Street" organization.

This is a Washington-based Fundamentalist group that manages "to get the goods" on up and coming young politicos and old ones too (think McCain?) for eventual blackmail or other uses. No plot is too outlandish if it gives them eventual access to power. Think of the Koch brothers...

Also, see the blog "God's Own Party" -- these people are very powerful, very rich, very cunning, and very dangerous. They could have pulled this off, no problem -- except for the eventual care and handling of crazy Sarah.

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Allie
6/30/2011 08:35:55

Hello, all! I am back online and reading to catch up on comments.

In my state, and I think this is probably pretty universal, family practitioners do NOT have C/Section privileges except to assist an OB doctor. This practice is driven primarily by malpractice insurance companies. In general, they don't do any surgeries except assisting.

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Ron
6/30/2011 08:36:19

I don't see much in that CBJ invitation e-mail. She's not asking for CBJ's contact info, she's asking for info on the children's summit event. It's possible she didn't really feel like talking directly to CBJ and getting pressured to attend something before she knew all the details. It sounds like she wanted someone else to look into it for her. That's all I see there.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 08:51:47

Ron, I have to agree with you. When I read it, I see that she's not asking for contact info, but rather on the info on the event.

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Laura Novak
6/30/2011 08:52:51

I talked to Doc and he had this to say:


"If Sarah Palin had a tubal ligation, it would make it very difficult for her to be Trig's birth mother. If I understand her religious beliefs, I can't imagine she would have a voluntary sterilization procedure.

As a Neonatologist, I don't know enough about hysterectomies to comment on the need for a perfusionist, but it could make sense, especially if she has a bleeding tendency. There are several reasons a "healthy" woman in her 30s would need one that come to mind: malignancy, severe fibroids, chronic pelvic pain, menorrhagia or complications from delivery. If Sarah Palin had a hysterectomy, it would make it impossible for her to be Trig's birth mother."

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Jeanette123
6/30/2011 08:57:45

In CBJ’s election eve letter she said, “Governor Palin has had no major medical problems. Her hospitalizations have been for childbirth. In 1992 she had a breast biopsy for what turned out to be a benign lesion.” Interestingly there was no mention or either a tubal ligation or a hysterectomy.

Also on CBJ, another entity that might have weighed in would be the American Academy of Family Physicians. CBJ had gotten an award from them in 2002, I believe in large part due to Sarah’s support. They are particularly concerned about Family Practice Doctors’ reputations relating to delivering babies. Or the Alaska Board of Medical Registration could have gotten involved it their was a complaint. I think either of these two scenarios is more likely than the church controlled board of Matsu taking action.

I personally think she took herself off privileges at Matsu because the AAFP was questioning her action and at some point later under strict confidence she told them that she didn’t tell Sarah it was OK to fly home pregnant. If CBJ’s election eve letter was not exactly as she wrote it, she may have used that fact to convince Sarah to back her up. This would likely have been after the election. Does anyone know when she went back on privileges, including OB at Mat-Su?

Ottoline: I don’t think we can leave the children out of it because this puzzle cannot be solved without proving or making a good case for the how, why, when, etc about it. We know that people will not believe pictures taken by neutral parties that clearly show that Sarah could not have been pregnant in early 2008. We know that Alaskan marriage; adoption, birth and maybe divorce records can only be accessed by the person that they relate to for 50 years. We know that we are very unlikely to have a health professional who dealt with Sarah come forward because of HIPAA. We know that Sadie feels she can’t tell what she knows because her mother is about half way through serving her sentence at home and she doesn’t want her to go to jail. We will find out what Levi feels he can say when his book comes out but I am not holding out much hope there. We know that people in Alaska are too scared to talk much about what they know and they seem to have good reason to be.
Lidia17
About moving to Juneau. I lived in Alaska a few years back and there has often been controversy of even keeping the capital in Juneau since it is only accessible by air or boat, and a personal boat is usually not very practable since Juneay is on the panhandle and the weather is often pretty ferocious over those waters.

As a result of those difficulties, many of the functions of government have moved to Anchorage so I don’t think it was too unusual for her not to move her family to Juneau. Plus she was getting paid per diem to stay in her own house!! And for a time I think the state was paying for some of her children’s’ travel even when it was on state business although she had to pay some of that back.

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FEDUP!!!
6/30/2011 09:11:49

OK, I haven't read all responses here yet.

Some people suggest the Bri$tol and Levi were married some time ago, when B. became preggo the first time. My question is: Why would $carah then not simply say to the world that - yes, her daughter is 17/18, BUT she is already married??? She would have been able to appease the lifers as well as the fundies and everybody else.

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Ruth
6/30/2011 09:12:16

If we're going to study this from the beginning, who was behind the Republican cruise to Alaska? Was it a set up to make them notice SP, or was the destination just a coincidence? Who's idea was it, who paid for it? Were Todd and his hookers used to encourage cooperation? Inquiring minds want to know.

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FEDUP!!!
6/30/2011 09:14:18

Oh, just a little O/T side here: I just came back from the local library. There are SIXTY-NINE holds on Bailey's book!

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jeff
6/30/2011 09:33:55



@Banyan,

Sounds like we are in the same corner. I hope so, anyway.

Yep, once they're compromised, they're putty in those guys’ hands. If they slip up and are partially exposed, they’ll cover for them to a point: cost/benefit, I guess. But once they’re in the sunlight and exposed, they’re damaged goods and on their own. I saw it happen directly with a Congressman I went to undergrad with together; in fact, I think I gave a pretty good overview of that particular case on a previous blog entry by Laura about a month ago. He was a front for them. Not prosecuted yet, and prob never will be. He was being groomed to be Trent Lott's replacement but lost his way a bit because of stupidity.

I believe that both the neocons AND some of the hard-right-wingers were pushing buttons for Sarah.
I mean, there's no way with all of the socialist stuff she did for Alaskans that she should be one of the goldenboy/girls for Club for Growth, but if u take a look at who was politicking for her, it was a combo of neocons Barnes & Kristol and that gang, PLUS the Corporate welfare crowd trying to eliminate Social Security and get rid of corp taxes. Nikki Haley is another one that they are propping up in SC, and everybody in the legislature knew she was dirty from day one too.

The dominionists have a lot of these guys by the balls bc they've compromised themselves, and now they depend on them for cover. Plus, AFP and those guys fronting for Koch will primary their own GOP guys if they cross them on tax or budget issues.

What balls they ever had are in a vise and being squeezed tighter and tighter. I'm surprised they haven't gone ahead and sunk Palin's party boat, because she's so fuckin' hard-headed, sometimes I think that SHE THINKS SHE'S PULLING THE STRINGS. They'll end up showing her the bay at the end of a cul-de-sac that's at the bottom of a steep drop-off if she goes too far rogue, I'm afraid.

I've been reluctant to even consider what all might be swept under the rug on her so far... I don't think SHE could arrange for murders, but to have a tool like her, I guess there are specialists in every area of crime, just like there are us MBA's, attorneys, et al, there's arsonists, snipers, airplane mechanics, offshore tax specialists, and post-colonial dictators in small Caribbean islands who play for pay.

Whether its from AIPAC, CAIR, Big Labor, Big Pharma, etc...just follow the money. These people aren't running these rackets bc they read the Gospels and are inspired by the Word. Greed, Corruption---> Power. Scary shit that is the real "WHY" behind the everyday dynamics. Sad thing is it comes from opposite sides all the time. I better shut up for now. But those who know...they know. I guarantee not one of Palin's Sea of Pee crew have a fuckin clue of any of this.

I try to ignore the stuff at Palin’s level, because really, it’s all the same, almost every time. Simple and consistent. And the ones pulling the strings never do the time, and often the Palins never even meet them face-to-face.

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Banyan
6/30/2011 09:51:11

@ Jeff

We are on the same page for sure!

That being said, all I feel certain about here (again from the vast accumulation of circumstantial evidence) is that Sarah Palin did not give birth to any baby at Mat-Su Hospital on April 18, 2008.

The rest is informed speculation, and I am in favor of any and all theories being aired here.

At some point, the details start to point in a certain direction...or not.

I am finding both Dunn's and Bailey's books highly interesting because "clues" are sprinkled around in each. I know many lawyers vetted these books (and McGinniss's upcoming book), so the dots will not be totally connected in any one place.

But a whole lot of clues (along with a vast amount of disinformation) is out there for us to consider.

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Rationalist
6/30/2011 10:02:37

Hey there - I found the place where the CBJ email was discussed. It was on IM

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-did-so-many-people-in-wasilla-know.html

specifically the comments at 4:55 and 4:58 am. This is the relevant quote from the comment:

"If she was six months "pregnant" in January, wouldn't she have been in regular, frequent contact with CBJ?

Especially since in the election eve letter CBJ said (or some McCain operative said, & signed CBJ's name to it) that Palin followed the normal course of perinatal care for a DS fetus. Which, for the uninitiated...is a crapload of dr appts, ultrasounds, glucose fasting tests, protein-in-the-pee checks, etc etc etc.


Saying CBJ contacted her personally- in JAN 08...tells me the hoax was indeed hastily thrown together and started in March.
4:55 AM
Anonymous said...

http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/11570.pdf

And CBJ didn't already HAVE Sarah's email? At the end of Jan, "7 months" ish pregnant?!
4:58 AM
Anonymous said...

http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/11573.pdf


If Palin was seeing CBJ for her pregnancy...don't you think CBJ would be a little more familiar of a topic to Kris, Janice, etc? They handled EVERY aspect of her schedule-- so I'm thinking we won't find ANY "gov. prenatal appt tomrw 3pm" references."

I would say that actually THIS is the important email, for the reason the anonymous poster listed above:

http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/11570.pdf


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lilly lily
6/30/2011 10:28:12



It isn't only in books or films like the Bourne Identity, or Hannah, or The Girl Who kicked over the Hornets Nest or James Bond where there are level after level of culpability. Someone on top pulling the strings secretly.

Did you see the amount of security at the Mall of America. I'm sure it cost much much more than the Palins made on the sale of those books. I don't know who paid for it, except I'm sure it wouldn't be Sarah. Perhaps the mall, or the publisher? Or Sarah Pac?

I guess the tomatoes last time made them nervous.

The customers for the books were scanned with wands up to six times.

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Jeff
6/30/2011 10:40:08


@banyan,

Oops, I think I got trigger-happy there, but I don't know if I deleted what I wrote or sent it. haha

Anyway, I read both Bailey and Dunn, and glad I did. I was relieved that Dunn's analysis was close to me on Palin's craziness, but it made it kinda sad to me, also, too.

I'm only half way through, but I'm in the middle of another really good one here. Floyd Orr's latest book is an excellent complement to those as well. I'm reading his Paradigm Shift: Palin Matrix right now, and his Timeline on America is on deck as a pleasure read I'm going to consume over the holiday. I peeked at it and can't wait to dive in. Floyd is definitely the King of Timelines. Being the simple-minded linear thinker that I am, I love the timelines. There's a great one that's about 40 pages in Paradigm Shift, and it took me forever to get through it bc it was so thought-provoking. and too much interesting stuff I couldn't put it down, but I couldn't fly thru the timeline either. Too much nostalgia I haven't thougt about in ages.

Anyway, check his stuff out if you get a chance. He's been around this stuff a lot, and unfortunately (for me) I gave his work short shrift for too, too long because he had so many answers and is a really good writer who is smart and witty and cleverly funny.

I just wish FLOYD would curse more, but since he's published several books, he must know his audience better than me.

Paradigm gets into a lot of the undercurrent/societal dynamics and gives a good overview of the Southern Strategy, and that hit me pretty close to home with me. Since I have yet to finish the book, I won't do a plot spoiler. But I know it's evolving anyway bc he doesn't claim to have ALL of the answers, but he's helped me better define what the questions are, so that's been helpful for me.

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Jeanette123
6/30/2011 10:53:01

Sorry my previous post should have read that I think her kids were traveling on Alaska's dime even when they were not traveling on state business. After she had to pay money back to the state she tried to develop and "official"reason why her kids needed to travel. I presume the official family picture and Christmas picture fit the bill of official travel that was paid for by Alaska citizens.

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rubbernecking
6/30/2011 11:30:45

@Conscious at last, I posted links to the AK bill sources in an earlier comment.

1. Press release on billing signing: http://wayback.archive-it.org/1200/20090726121556/http://www.gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=878&type=1
2. 2006-07 Leg Session: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=24&bill=hb322
3. 2007-08 Leg Session: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=25&bill=HB%20%2029

You are correct there may have been some behind-the-scenes encouragement for the bill. I was looking for evidence of more active support (meetings, emails) but haven't uncovered anything yet.

It's also a good law and I'm not sure there would be much opposition to it.

I haven't had a chance to look into the other law. Real life is intruding!

Cheers.

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jk
6/30/2011 12:12:07

Viola's theory makes a lot of sense to me. Ruffles was around until June, 2008, as per photos in Bailey's book, but with CBJ's help maybe they could have borrowed him that long. Or could he have died?
The Ruffles = Tripp theory makes no sense to me. It adds up in some ways, but doesn't add up in one big way: the photographs.
The child presented as Trig has been a shapeshifter: ruffled ears one minute, DS the next, darker hair one day, lighter hair the next, unresponsive one day, more lively the next. Tripp, otoh, is a very distinctive looking critter. To my eye his features track smoothly from the baby Levi was holding in the hospital (the photo Mercede identified as him with Tripp), to the photos from early infancy, to the toddler we see today. Whether he was born precisely on 12/27/2008, who knows. But the photos released in early 2009 were of an infant, not a 15-month old.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 12:18:06

Logging off for the night. Leave your comments please and I'll post bright and early.

Many thanks everyone for a great discussion. I feel there's so much more to say.

Thank you, Allie, RN, for really getting us going!

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Up
6/30/2011 12:56:53

@punkinbug, the statement in CBJ's letter about her former status made me think of my boss, the mistress of spin. CBJ had to establish her credentials but also explain why she was no longer there. The part about leaving to spend more time with her children in crisis programs is a classic "resigning from Congress to "spend more time with my family" excuse.

Re HIPAA, a physician (or other practitioner) can neither publicly confirm NOR DENY whether a patient had a procedure. So if SP was ever under CBJ's care, CBJ cannot deny delivering SP's baby even if ther was no pregnancy. The exceptions are if the practitioner is accused of malpractice, or the patient gives permission for disclosure. This was told to me by a masters-prepared nurse.

As for the ethics stmts at Mat Su, that is pretty standard at all hospitals. There has been an emphasis on improved compliance across the industry.

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Ivyfree
6/30/2011 13:13:09

You know, what really strikes me in all of this is how completely improbable it all is. Not just unrealistic, but mathematically it's so improbable that it's on a par with a sudden cessation of gravitational pull. I wish I had the capability of actually calculating the odds.

1. A 43 year-old woman gets pregnant. COULD happen, but pretty rare.

2. It's a baby with Down syndrome. Again- could happen, but even with mothers who are older than 40, it's not that frequent.

3. She has an amniocentesis at 13 weeks. Pretty unlikely- all the info says 16-20 weeks is safer- and she offers no reason for having it done. She isn't going to abort, and she doesn't prepare by informing family members or learning about Down syndrome. How likely is this?

4. She announces at 7 months, and the Alaskan press and public are universally astonished because she doesn't look pregnant at all, even though previous pregnancies show her looking like a moose. Um... okay?

5. She goes through her entire pregnancy, with all its attendant MD appointments, without a single entry on her official calendar that references a medical appointment. Her staff continue to bring her coffee. Well... there's no law that says she couldn't have coffee and there's not even any law that says she should have medical care during her pregnancy... but how likely is it?

6. Despite the claim in her medical letter that she had appropriate medical care, despite the fact that she is expecting a baby with Down syndrome with the attendant risk of prematurity and cardiac anomalies, she makes a transcontinental flight at 8 months.
Well, maybe.

7. She experiences amniotic fluid leakage and "big contractions" but no actual progression of labor. She calls her doctor, but her doctor doesn't tell her to go to the hospital and get checked, despite the fact that this would be the standard of care as understood not only by doctors but all adults of average intelligence, as well as some stupid people.

8.She is able to give a speech without anybody noticing. We're starting to really stretch things now.

9. She gets on a plane for another transcontinental flight. The flight attendants don't notice the pregnancy, even though their job requires them to check that seatbelts are appropriately fastened. Maybe they were stupid or blind?

10. Labor does not progress. Well- it does happen sometimes. Although there were apparently no problems with previous labors. At any rate, nothing happens on her flights, and a person who sees her casually "reading a book" during a layover in Seattle doesn't notice anything amiss. I mean, come on. Sarah- READING A BOOK? What are the odds here? (Plus, if I had started leaking amniotic fluid and having contractions 16 hours before, I bet I'd look a bit tense.)

11. Sarah lands in Anchorage and travels to Mat-Su, despite the fact that she is in a high-risk pregnancy by several factors and the standard of care would be to have a birthing plan that involves an obstetrician and a hospital that handles higher-risk deliveries. How likely is it that any doctor would be willing to assist in the high-risk delivery of a state governor in a hospital that isn't set up to handle high-risk births? Isn't that a prescription for jeopardizing one's license?

12. Sarah requires induction. Her other babies weren't, or if they weren't, she, the Drama Queen of Alaska, never mentioned it.

13. NOBODY sees Sarah in the hospital.

14. The baby's picture is not released along with pictures of other babies born there. That's odd. The hospital later stops releasing any pictures, even with parental permission, claiming "security." Why would no picture be shown, given that the press showed up the next day and reported on the birth of the baby? It's not like they were keeping it secret.

15. There are no pictures of Sarah holding the baby in the hospital- only family members, and, maybe, Levi.

16. Sarah's daughter's boyfriend shows up at 6 am for the birth. Say what? Do you have any idea how hard it is to wake up a teenage boy?

18. The baby, which is announced to have Down syndrome, jaundice and a "hole in his heart" is released within 48 hours. This is despite the fact that feeding infants with Down syndrome is notoriously tricky, requiring time and effort.

19. Sarah takes the newborn, with its newborn immune system, to her workplace at 3 days of age. Okay, maybe she doesn't care if he gets sick and dies. Who knows?
***

Unlike Sarah, I DO believe in coincidences. In an infinite Universe, there are infinite possibilities... but there are also probabilities. I can believe that several of these events could have occurred, especially since some of them are based on human stupidity and/or selfishness... but ALL of them TOGETHER? That's just not going to happen.

Other comments: re: perfusionist. Even if Sarah had surgery and required the reinfusion of her own blood, that doesn't necessarily take a perfusionist. The anesthesiologists do it all the time-

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Bobcat Logic
6/30/2011 13:34:26

It's interesting how the MSM (at least MSNBC) has tracked down, and reported on, the "secret" meeting just held by the Koch brothers and various Republican Governors.(Walker, Scott, Perry, that jerk in Virginia, and more...)

They did it by cross-checking official schedules (which were almost all blank or "whited out") and the numbers on corporate/private jets landing near Aspen, Colorado (see Rachel Maddow's show from last night).

Was this why Obama came down so hard and so frequently on corporate/private jets in his recent press conference?

Not everyone is totally asleep at the wheel. But we've still got a long way to go... Thanks, Jeff, for a really good post!

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Banyan
6/30/2011 13:38:29

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Banyan
6/30/2011 13:47:46

Jeff,

I've been saving Floyd's book as a sort of "palate cleanser" after Bailey's-- which is very interesting, but not quite on the level, IMHO.

All in due time...

Also, I've been on Floyd's website, well, since almost the beginning. And I was totally there for the Southern strategy (and don't even get me started on SC and Nikki Haley!)

After reading and savoring Dunn and Bailey, what Floyd has to say will be all the more interesting, and, yes, it is truly sad about Sarah's mental health.

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Anon55
6/30/2011 16:55:54

Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson is medical director of Alaska Cares
http://www.providence.org/alaska/tchap/cares/02team.htm

Alaska Cares is a clinic that provides sexual and physical abuse evaluations for children, newborn to age 18 years. I believe Dr. Cathy hold this position and earns extra bucks as medical director in addition to the bucks she brings in for heading her own family practice group in Wasilla.

And who is its main funder of Alaska Cares? None other than the Alaska Department of Health and Human Services. That means that Alaska Cares is probably operating under a contract with the state of Alaska. (Would love to get the contract and see how much Dr. Cathy is being paid -- probably well over $100,000. That's the thing I love the most about the tea party gang and the fundies -- government should just get out of the way, except when their hands are trying to feed at the trough -- just like Michelle Bachmann's husband taking government funding for his gay re-education psych practice. But I digress).

In any event, Alaska Health and Social Service used to be run by Palin appointees and is now run by an appointee of Sarah's buddy Sean Parnell. Maybe Dr. Cathy has to keep her mouth shut or she would lose her cushy little job as medical director, which I'm sure brings in a tidy income in addition to her medical practice and, also too, to birthing high risk special needs infants in small community hospitals without NICU's.

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Andrea
6/30/2011 20:34:21

V posted up top somewhere: “One thing that I've been wondering about for a while - although Palin has certainly perpetrated a gigantic hoax on the public - do her deeds actually constitute what would legally be considered fraud? Since she has never produced a birth certificate for Trig - since she did not take maternity leave - she may have not committed a fraud which can be considered prosecutable.”

I don’t live in the US and don’t know anything about Alaska. However, in OECD countries pretense - or taking on a role, acting a fictitious character / state is not in itself illegal (with a few special exceptions, see below.)

Think of: pretending to be pregnant, pretending to have a broken leg, pretending to be on death’s bed, to be drunk, or to be a princess (calling oneself Princess X, wearing a tiara, etc.)...

It is only when the pretense contravenes some specific law in other areas that any prosecutable offense occurs. Pretending to be ill might in some cases be insurance fraud - but even that is tricky as it is the medical body who decides when one is ill or not. In the case of the fake broken leg, the fraudster is the doctor, not the patient (if insurance has paid out.) Wearing a cast to get out of working might be attacked by an employer. Generally speaking, it is only when personal gain is involved, where money changes hands, or some great non financial privileges follow, often outlined in a previous contract, that any offense occurs. Pretending to be dying garners sympathy but not more...

Pretend pregnancy has been attacked often, under marriage laws. Entering a marriage contract under some kind of false representation (e.g. pretending to be single, pretending to be of the opposite sex, pretending to be a virgin, pretending to be of a certain religion, etc.) is in many places either an offense of some kind or can be a reason to dissolve the marriage, or grant a divorce which is very favorable to the complainant. This does not apply in the SP case.

Other pretenses are covered by other laws - think, for ex. of pretending to be policeman (outside of a theatre or fancy dress setting.) This is often a criminal offense, even if no clear advantage accrues to the false cop.

As SP and Todd Palin are presumably the legal parents of Trig, thru adoption, no obvious or clear fraud has been committed. I am guessing that Alaska does not award maternity or paternity leave in case of adoption (many countries do, or do so under some conditions, e.g. child must be under 6 at time of adoption), but it is immaterial, as she didn’t need it and didn’t take it. If any fraud has been committed it was done by the Doctor, and possibly by the hospital, but that last would be, imho, very tricky, as not saying that something didn’t happen is not fraudulent either. Anyway I don’t know the relevant law in Alaska, the precise scope of HIPPA, etc.

Question: Did SP ever actually say that she gave birth to Trig at Mat-Su? She always says she’s his mother - she is. She has derided the crazy people who deny she is his mother - OK. She implies she was pregnant, she pretends it, she did as if she were going to give birth - waters breaking, contractions, wild ride, etc. In my eyes, she has been seeing herself as pretending, and has avoided ‘core lies’. Anyway, this is getting too complicated..

If any case were ever to be brought forward (never happen), it would hinge around two points: advantages accrued - motive - plus the link between the two. As in, say the pretending to be princess example, which is either harmless, or marginal (I sell my house at double the market price because it is ‘royal’ - but buyer beware applies, etc.), or more serious.

Hope this general scope is of interest. What it points to though, is that SP may have consulted a lawyer?

-Andrea.

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Laura Novak link
6/30/2011 23:44:36

Andrea, Nice to see a new face here. Thanks for joining us and introducing some new ideas.

IvyFree, I think that's one of the best summaries of improbability I've seen. Condensed like that we can see that Sarah was one incredibly lucky woman, non?

A while back, reader V. did a guest post on the probability involved. If you look at the whole of the story as you've laid it out, if just ONE piece of this puzzle were not present in it's form, the story would not have worked for her.

But she made every single thing not only work for her, but so unbelievable, people were too speechless to question it.

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lilly lily
6/30/2011 23:46:43

Looks like I have to read the books instead of depending on the net as I have to date.

I skimmed through Bailey and her own Rogue very lightly. Don't want these books, even from the library. I listened for a few minutes to her voice tape, and since I can't bear her shrieking voice I stopped almost immediatly.

I keep hoping that someone who wrote the books would have caused the definitive political disembowelment to ensure her removal from politics.

That doesn't seem to be the case quite yet.

She is doing a pretty good job of destroying her own credability with the electorate, though she will always have some deluded bots support.

The babies hoax must be solved to give la Palin the final political coupe de grace and her aspirations for the highest office in this country.

One that could destroy the USA. She is that bad.

LOL Perhaps she is a Manchurian Candidate?

What true American patriot puppet master would want this moronic fake patriot waving her American flags, wearing her American flag jewelry, spouting her simplistic jingoisms in power?

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comeonpeople
7/1/2011 00:03:32

I wonder if sarah has a rare blood type or for some reason developed alot of antibodies and is hard to crossmatch? If she needed a perfusionist for hysterectomy surgery, that could be one reason I imagine for autotranfusing her blood back...if there is any truth to this info.
lol cracking myself up: she has alien demon blood..

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lilly lily
7/1/2011 00:13:12

Half an hour into the signings, the small crowd became a trickle of new comers. And they left, was it an hour and a half early?

Perhaps Sarah Pac will buy up a few thousand of Bristols memoirs and send it off for $100 each with 2 of Sarahs as an inducement.

That way Bristol can get on the some prestigious lists, much as her mother did with Newsmax giveaways etc. From the 1st, you could get Going Rouge from Newsmax for less than $5 and receive a subscription also.

I think the American public has gotten Bristol and her memoirs message loud and clear. Levi is a heel, a gnat. Everyone is nasty and hates the Palins, but they are a tight knit family with Rhino skin as long as they can scam the credulous public and the money flows in.

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comeonpeople
7/1/2011 00:16:01

I really enjoy the humor we have here sometimes discussing Palin.
@Ivyfree: love your calculations and your comments, esp "even some stupid people" know to go to the hospital if your mebranes rupture. Thanks for the laugh!!
And Andrea, I think the only chance we ever have of finding out is of course future books that may be written if Sarah doesn't run for office. BUT, if she runs, I hope somehow there is a questioning of Palin's mental state (Nicole Wallace??) ..someone that can get that aspect to see some light. Then, perhaps the faked pregnacy has a context for discussion in mainstream.

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comeonpeoplel
7/1/2011 00:25:36

Laura, feel free to combine my comments. I apologize but I keep thinking of things- coffee kicking in.
@UP: Yes ethics and compliance statements are all the rage in hospitals but MatSu was a little behind, and the timing is just coincidental I guess.
Also, there is no reason someone unaffiliated with MatSu, say someone at Providence at Anchorage (where Tri-G may have been in the NICU) couldn't say that Sarah did not birth Tri-G at MatSu, is there? They would not be saying where or to whom Tri-G was born, or even that Tri-G was at Providence, just that it didn't happen as Sarah says. That's not to say this person would have any credibility, but i am just trying to explore HIPAA evading angles. And again, HIPAA is over-ridable in instances of fraud or national security. A crazy woman running for president is a national security threat, IMHO.
I don't think she can run.

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Laura Novak link
7/1/2011 00:30:53

Comeon, No, talk away. It's always good when the morning beverage kicks in. And it's always good when we think about this story in small doses.

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V
7/1/2011 00:41:59

@Ivyfree - a while ago I did something similar and actually estimated the odds. I have done work in mathematical modeling and so you may want to look at it - Laura used it as a separate blog post. Search for "pregnancy and probability". I tried to confine myself to information that was independent - and I was extremely generous to Sarah in my assumptions.

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Anon55
7/1/2011 00:46:31

re the perfusionist, if you read the original comment from Shitfire that brought the perfusionist into the discussion, it said the perfusionist was on standby and ultimately wasn't needed.

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Viola-Alex
7/1/2011 00:49:31

@Anon55 - what you write about CBJ's position and its funding by the state may explain why she enabled Sarah's hoax. CBJ gets funding for her work with abused children AND gets nominated for that Health Professional of the Year award! I wonder what CBJ had to do in return?

Set up fake birth scene at Mat-Su?

Find a few Trigs?

Cut/paste a lame letter for McCain campaign?

CBJ is another person/key to solving this. I wonder what would happen if all the Trig Truthers mounted a letter-writing campaign and just bombarded her with MAIL? You know, every day for a month, each of us write one letter to CBJ asking her to tell the truth. Wherever she works, her office would get a few bushels of mail a day for a month. ummmmmm. . .

Benign harassment.

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lilly lily
7/1/2011 01:00:47

One day she pushes her crucifix bling (rhinestone belt in Pelle) and howls her victim meme. Talking about celebrities wanting to kill her children? HUH? Who threatens to kill them? That sounds like she needs medical treatment and meds for her paranoid ideas. God talks to her, everyone threatens her, she is a classic Paranoid.

She, Bristol, Tripp (why does Tripp need to be at a boring book signing with crowds, he can't scribble his name yet) surrounded by security at the Mall America. More than the president of the U.S..seems to need.

Victim? Again?

If she is truly such a victim, needs so much security from the great unwashed public, why not
return to the Palin multi-million Alaskan home with a private T.V. Station to beam her political punditry for Faux out to the world while safe and secure in Wasilla compound and the Palin Cabin hideaway with her precious, threatened children and grandchildren.

Alaskan summers are glorious. Why bake in Arizona? She hasn't decided to run? Well sit in one place and think it over.

Jury duty? what jury duty? She did say she was going to do her civic duty?

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Jeanette 123
7/1/2011 01:08:55

I personally don't think it makes much difference whether there is something that could be brought to court but there is one thing that likely would be fraud. That would be if the child is receiving payment or any other benefit from the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANSKA) and the child does not meet the criteria, those of one-quarter or more Native blood, i.e., Eskimo, Aleut, Athabascan, Tlingit or Haida.

I understand the other Palin children do meet that criteria and even if this chlld is not natural born to Sarah, it still might depending on its parentage. If it is Todd's child, it still would.

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Palintologist
7/1/2011 01:19:33

and now on the lighter side...

Warren Zevon's Lawyers Guns & Money
lyrics as adapted for Palin.
Video link of Zevon below.

Written By Warren Zevon
C. 1978 Zevon Music/BMI

I went home to Wasilla
The way I always do
How was I to know
I could see the
Russians, too?

I was gambling in Juneau
I took a little risk
Send lawyers, guns and money
Murdock get me out of this,

I'm the innocent bystander
Somehow I got stuck
Between the Lame Stream Media
And the bloggers on my block
And I'm down on my luck
Yes I'm down on my luck
Well I'm down on my luck

I'm hiding in Arizona
I'm a desperate quitter
Send lawyers, guns and money
The shit has hit the fan

All right
Send lawyers, guns and money

Send lawyers, guns and money

Send lawyers, guns and money

Send lawyers, guns and money


http://www.myspace.com/video/stefan-e/warren-zevon-lawyers-guns-and-money/31450186

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Beaglemom
7/1/2011 01:21:39

@Andrea. If Sarah Palin is not Trig's birth mother, there is a kind of fraud going on. Perhaps not something that could be prosecuted, but fraud nonetheless. Here is a woman who has used a fake pregnancy and a very real DS child to garner fame and, above all, fortune. After Trig's birth, she could have stayed home with her child, providing him with all the therapies he will need to lead a productive life, she could have begun donating time in a local child care center for disabled children, she could have done real fundraising to provide help for special needs children and their families and lobbied for more state and federal funding for universal medical care. She's done nothing like that; she's used the fiction of the pregnancy and the reality of the child to keep herself in the headlines and to make money. Pure profit motive - and that is, I think, reprehensible and, for that reason, the truth must be revealed. Blogs like this one, as well as Palingates, Politicalgates, Immoralminority, etc., will finally get the truth out.

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V
7/1/2011 01:23:01

Do we even know that Sarah was at MatSu? Perhaps she never even went there but simply sent family to take pictures of themselves with a baby.

Think: They'd still have the blanket and cap from before. There would be no need to bother staff in this case. No need to pay for a room - nothing for insurance to fake.

Was she ever seen arriving or leaving?

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Leona
7/1/2011 01:24:26

Andrea made an interesting point: "Pretending to be ill might in some cases be insurance fraud..." This made me think about hospitals and insurance companies.
Is it possible to get records of payments made to Mat-Su hospital by the insurance company that covered Sarah and, presumably, the rest of the family, in 2008? If Mat-Su hospital billed for OB and pediatric services that were never rendered, or were rendered someone other than SPalin & her "biological" baby, and received reimbursement from an insurance company, it might constitute fraud. Or perhaps Mat-Su hospital never billed for anyone in the Palin family. What does anyone think about this as a way to get some more information?

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d.t.
7/1/2011 02:23:37

Lydia17 wrote:"...here’s another way we could look at this: what if the things she’s talking about happened to Bristol? We already know she has a strange relationship with that girl: part competitor, part mini-me. Sarah could easily have “adopted” part of someone’s else’s story, just as she appears to have adopted someone else’s child. Maybe Bristol was the one who had been left alone to take a pregnancy test, consider aborting, and so forth… Sarah is like a magpie and will steal any attractive bits of scrap to construct her narrative."

This rings very true to me.

I was raised by a mother with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (which I believe is the mental illness Palin has also, too,) - and this was something my mother did frequently. (It's not at all uncommon for those with NPD.) In the case of my mother, it was very, very bizarre indeed to hear her describe events that had happened to me or one of my siblings as if the event had happened to her - and she'd do it in front of us, brazenly. The pathology of her illness was such that she would become so invested in these lies and stories that it seemed like she almost believed in them herself. In a way, she DID believe them - because we weren't real to her, we were just extensions of her, and therefore our lives and experiences belonged to her to do with as she wanted...if that makes sense.

For example, I came home to find her hysterical one night, crying her eyes out about a terrible incident that happened in her past - and when I finally persuaded her to tell me what the heck was wrong, she told me a story about something shocking that had happened in MY past (which was known in my family, and which I was then in therapy for) as if it had happened to her, not me. It was a very surreal moment, as you can imagine. And yet this was just one of many surreal moments when growing with a NPD parent. As a child living in that parent's created reality, you don't even know what "normal" and "real" actually is...until you get out. And have lots of therapy.

Although Bristol Palin doesn't seem like a very admirable young woman, I can't help but feel extremely sorry for her and all of the Palin children. It's awful growing up with an NPD parent -- and that must be 100 times worse when there is media and big money fanning your mother's narcissism, and spreading your family pathology across the tabloids.

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Allie
7/1/2011 02:25:49

From Family Physician of the Year to barely on staff six years later. Having the governor of her state as a patient was a real career builder, wasn’t it? Some relationships are just toxic. I am going to unpack some of that election eve letter from CBJ to the McCain campaign, which I believe was written by a professional. She stated, “I am currently on consulting staff for Mat-Su…, on active staff at Providence…and on courtesy staff at Alaska Regional Hospital.” Then she says she, “was on active status at Mat-Su…from 1985 to June 1, 2008” and that she, “changed status in order to devote more time to…child abuse evaluation and prevention.” What she says here is that she formally changed from active staff to consulting staff at Mat-Su. Active status demands the most commitment from a physician in terms of the administrative side of a practice. It gives you the most clinical privileges and requires attendance at medical staff meetings and functions. Consulting staff privileges means you retain your clinical privileges and can forego the meetings if you choose, plus, you pretty much only see patients when asked to by the emergency room or another MD. Some med centers don’t allow consulting MDs to admit patients, only see patients already admitted by another MD. Clearly her focus on admitting her own patients was at Providence, whether this was new or not, I cannot tell. Courtesy staff privileges are very minimal privileges. What we can’t tell from this is how genuine the reason for the changes was. In my experience, status changes are NOT done or taken lightly because part of their professional reputation depends on a complete and convincing privilege track record. I can’t over-emphasize this enough because it is really critical. If she were to leave Alaska and apply for privileges in her new hospital and her paperwork record of her prior associations was not sterling, it would jeopardize whether she would get privileges and she would not want any red flags. Right now, I think she has a yellow flag and would be called upon to convincingly explain why she changed. If all she did was redirected her focus 36 miles SW from Mat-Su, then it is no big deal. Also, bear in mind that family practitioners are generally more office-based than hospital-based.

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Allie
7/1/2011 02:27:23

The fourth paragraph says this: At the time of her most recent pregnancy, [Trig, Doctor?] Governor Palin had no health risk factors other than her age [43]. Routine prenatal testing [AFP ‘triple’ screening] early in the second trimester [which is the 14th to 27th weeks] showed evidence of [the possibility of] Trisomy 21 [DS], which was confirmed by perinatology consultation [obstetrician] and amniocentesis [contradicts SP’s claim of 13 weeks.] She followed the normal and recommended schedule for prenatal care, [no office visits ever referred to in any email we have seen] including follow-up perinatology evaluations [with the consulting MD, who hasn’t been identified to my knowledge] to ensure there was no significant congenital heart disease or other condition of the baby that would preclude delivery at her home community hospital [pardon me while I just cover my ass here. It seems to be hanging out in the wind. How was I to know about the Wild Ride in advance?] This child, Trig, was born at 35 weeks in good health. He was able to go home at two days of age with his mother. He had some minor problems with jaundice that required phototherapy in the hospital and at home for several days. At the time of his last office visit, he was growing and developing normally for a child with Trisomy 21.

There is no mention of a hole in the heart. My suspicion is that there may have been a delay in closure of the ductus arteriosis between the atria which normally closes at birth resulting in a temporary murmur. This would have been impossible to predict.

The rest of the letter is standard stuff except that she doesn’t mention any sterilization procedure, perhaps at SP’s request.

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Allie
7/1/2011 03:03:26

There have been scattered references to HIPPA and perfusionsists. Yes, it is true that HIPPA regs. are stringent and in my state we have a separate statute for snooping staff. Even though I have access to a computer with parts of my own medical record on it, I cannot read my own chart. I have to go to health info dept and request it like any patient. While a h/c prof. can't "confirm or deny" information about a patient, the requirement is that you protect health information to which you are privy. This means that you have to have enough of a relationship with a patient to have health info to protect.

Over the course of my career, I have worked in several ORs where hearts are done. I am familiar with the job description of a perfusionist. They are not ever on standby for a tubal ligation if she had a TL. If indeed there is a perfusionist on standby record in one of her charts, it had to be for a more major surgery, which I contend had to have been at least a hysterectomy. Maybe she had a bleeding tendency or was deathly afraid of getting AIDS. Look, I don't want to get someone in trouble for failing to protect health information, so I don't want to draw attention to that individual. Throw it into the mix of your own theories about the pregnancy hoax and decide for yourself what weight you want to give it. I'll just add that "perfusionist" isn't an everyday word in everyday conversations unless you're twisted enough to work in the OR. :)

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Laura Novak link
7/1/2011 03:44:08

Thank you, Allie, for giving us more of your knowledge. We may never know if the commenter about the profusionist "on standby" was real or fake. But it WAS an odd detail, that does intimate that the person had some knowledge. Or, it was a troll with a lot of time on their hands.

And I really liked your further comments about CBJ's privileges. That could be a future post in and of itself. it's a fascinating subject.

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Allie
7/1/2011 03:53:40

correcting a typo: 14-26 weeks is the second trimester.

Billing records fall under HIPPA regs. Leona.

Also, as for fraud, it really just depends on how far Palin pushed it. If it is just talk, then it's plain old-fashioned lying. If it's in writing, then that is another matter.

Thank you d.t. for courageously sharing your story. FYI There is a condition called munchausen that may have also afflicted your mother along with NPD. This is where symptoms of illness are exaggerated or made up to garner sympathy. Check Wiki if you're interested.



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Allie
7/1/2011 03:54:43

oops, forgot to put my name...

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Allie
7/1/2011 03:58:20

Laura, maybe it was a troll with OR experience. :)

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Katie Taylor
7/1/2011 04:58:42

I have seen reference to a e-mail reminder sent to Todd P. from someone in Sarah's office reminding him of a deadline that was approaching to get Trig registered for some benefit through the State of AK. His response via e-mail was that he would take care of it. Does anyone know what this would have been for? I thought of the AK native fund and I know there is a searchable data base for all AK that have filed for the payment. Is this payment made to children? I may have asked this question before but don't remember getting a response. At some point someone will be able to track down Trig's birth date given all the information that eventually ends up in the public domain. It's amazing that no one has leaked additional information about Trig when one considers the wide range of people who would have access to information contained in hospital records, insurance company files, records of births etc . The reason I think that is the case is because no information exists for a Trig Palin in these standard records....but how could that be? I must take my tin foil hat off but it's hard when discussing the Palins.

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comeonpeople
7/1/2011 05:04:47

Allie ststes:
If it is just talk, then it's plain old-fashioned lying. If it's in writing, then that is another matter.

Juat talk at 100k a pop. Over and over again. Have you heard the kerfluffle a few weeks ago about Jennifer Hudson possibly having had bariatric surgery but collected $1 million from weight watchers? The black entertainment community was ready to eviscerate her for possible fraud. What would Oprah do? lol

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Katie Taylor
7/1/2011 05:27:52

But one more comment before I pack my tin foil hat away. Whatever happened to Shailey Tripp who was providing teaser info to IM and selling her e-mails with Todd P. on her website with the promise to eventually put some of the racier ones up for sale? She had her court date in May and said prostitution related charges were dropped leading some to take that as an innocent verdict but it wasn't. Having them dropped was a condition of her earlier plea. Her website has gone silent since then. This is a story that I expected to explode in the Palin's faces but like every other scandal it faded from the public view. Even the Natl. Enquirer parted ways with Shailey. You must be seriously damaged if the NE doesn't want anything to do with you.

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Allie
7/1/2011 05:34:53

@comeonpeople, well, not to be nitpicky, but giving speeches usually involves written contracts, lying in which could be fraudulent. What was in my mind was political talk and media talk.

Katie, I agree with you. My hobby is genealogy, so I am really in tune to records. I think the date will be revealed. We have to keep the pressure on to keep the lid on her ambitions until it surfaces.

Also, there is another fund to register Trig for. It is that permanent AK oil rebate thing, I forget the acronym.

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Diane
7/1/2011 06:53:16

Why the big secret?
Why did she feel she had to hide the pregnancy to till the last moment?
What was the reason for that?
For somebody who uses the fact that she had a DS child while many woman would have aborted(republicans say), why did she hide that fact?

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Jeanette
7/1/2011 07:13:13

The commenter about a profusionist being on standby made a comment on a blog other than IM and it was a fairly long post claiming to know a lot of details about Trig. I don't know if this is the same piece posted on IM or wether it has been talked about here, but this is the link http://tiny.cc/05qhp

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Laura Novak link
7/1/2011 07:25:03

Thanks, Jeanette. It helps to go back and read it in one place, without having to scroll through that entire post. I've bookmarked it this time!

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Lidia17
7/1/2011 08:06:28

@d.t. thanks for sharing your story, painful as it is. These personality disorders are a lot more common than we are led to believe.

@Allie, I wouldn’t be fooled by certain “professional” aspects of that letter. There are just as many UNprofessional aspects, first among them =>why the emphasis on Tri-G’ s health as opposed to Sarah’s? I think someone like RAM would have been savvy enough to find similar documents from which to cobble together something that would pass muster at the last minute among the MSM.

Someone did a take-down of that letter years ago:
http://www.palindeception.com/blog/2009_02_01_archive.html
http://www.palindeception.com/pdfcbjpost/analysis.pdf

----
"To summarize this pdf: This letter is the only documentation that has ever been provided by anyone about the circumstances of Trig Palin's birth. Yet it was not released by the doctor; it was not actually signed by the doctor; it has never been authenticated by the doctor; it contains information which the doctor could not know first-hand; it contains erroneous information; and most notably, it does not ever say that Sarah Palin gave birth to Trig Palin. The letter's unprofessional appearance, modified electronic signature and lack of clear factual statements give rise to numerous questions about its legitimacy, and some have suggested that these may be a deliberate ploy to allow Dr. Baldwin-Johnson “deniability” – that is, grounds to claim that she is not legally responsible for the letter."
------

BS about “no risk factors other than age”.

Sarah herself recounted 2 miscarriages in “Going Rogue”.

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Allie
7/1/2011 08:07:34

@ Diane

I have a mini-theory about why Palin waited to reveal her pregnancy until 28 weeks. If she miscarried a Down syndrome fetus from a pregnancy that only a tight circle knew about then she could maybe convince herself the whole thing never even happened. After 28 weeks, however, the baby might survive, so she had to go public. What do you think?

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Allie
7/1/2011 08:45:56

Lidia, thanks for the info. While I may not be as seasoned as you on the Frontier Fiction, please have confidence that my eyes are wide open. I am lifting rocks as quickly as I can!

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Banyan
7/1/2011 09:09:18

@ Allie

Preemies are now routinely resuscitated and treated at 24 and 25 weeks gestation and about half survive: at 28 weeks, survival is virtually guaranteed (also at 26 & 27 weeks).

Some NICUs actively try to resuscitate and save 22-23 weekers with some success -- although the longterm outcomes are rarely good.

Sarah, like all good Right-to-Lifers, would undoubtedly have known this -- since these people are always trying to force OBs to resuscitate younger and younger fetuses, even when it is merely an exercise in futility (and cruelty).

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Beaglemom
7/1/2011 10:33:55

@ Banyan re resuscitating preemies. About 14 years ago my good friend's grandchild was kept alive as a 24- or 25-week old preemie. The youngest to survive at that hospital. Six months in the hospital, numerous surgeries, brain bleeds - to end up without the use of his limbs, to have no speech and limited eyesight and hearing. At the age of about seven, it was considered a major triumph when he raised his head and smiled in the direction of his father at his father's request. When the baby was released from the hospital, the discharging doctor said, in response to a question about how he would do, "you'll love him no matter what." I think the doctor had, by then, a pretty good idea of the outcome for that child. But he was not going to have to live with the consequences; he only helped create them. While it is difficult to imagine what is best in these situations, I still think that sometimes nature should be allowed to take its course without so much human intervention.

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Jeanette
7/1/2011 11:46:08

@ Diane

There wasn't anything for her wait for to announce her pregnancy since as the pictures show, she wasn't pregnant!

Maybe she was waiting for the outcome of someone else's baby not any baby she was carrying.

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Ottoline
7/1/2011 13:25:24

1. Shailey Tripp said in her blog on June 16 that she or another media source would say more in 30 days, which is not here yet. Her blog is still up.

2. I agree with Lidia17: when I looked at the letter closely, it screamed "forged!" to me, based on internal characteristics of both format and content. I have come to think that CBJ might not have had much to do with the hoax at all -- all reports of CBJ's involvement are based on Palin saying so, with zero confirmation by CBJ. And we now know from Bailey that Palin is no stranger to forging letters.

3. From the beginning of this sad tale, no blog that I've followed has ever said the baby hoax was illegal -- but that the ethical aspect of it is monstrous. And so are the ethics of enabling it, which are far more important than Palin's actions.

4. Ivyfree -- I love your odds list, And we should remember that odds of multiple things happening are not additive, they are multiplicative. So with each added low-odds item, the odds go down big-time.

From the comments, I see that some of you are still on the fence or pondering how Palin delivered Trig. Before you proceed in your failure to grasp the proof, please explain the Mar 14 photo: how can it POSSIBLY exist if Palin was pregnant?

We've done it again, folks: those who deny that Palin hoaxed us have NEVER ONCE explained how that photo (and others) could show such a very flat profile.

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/pp141/WestCorrespondent/Sarah%20Palin/?action=view¤t=5weekstobaby.jpg

NEVER ONCE! I ask at every opportunity, but no one ever answers. (For good reason: It's impossible. She was not pregnant.)

This means you, Allie: Please please please tell us how you can maintain doubt in the face of those photo? Rare illness? Miracle? What?

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Andrea
7/1/2011 17:43:58

@Beaglemon.

I agree that there is fraud - and a trial ‘by jury’ would most likely agree with you and me.

However, legally, it is moot. Imagine my neighbor lady who pretends pregnancy, comes home one Monday with Hubby and a new born, and tells the whole village that he was born in the nearby hospital. Tongues wag. She never looked pregnant! Bo Junior is a sweet baby. Hubby is the strong silent type who always follows his wife’s lead. The interpretation, by the local psy type is that Mom wanted to make the baby hers as truly as possible in her own experience, etc. The baby is adopted, and no records exist, except a BC in the name of the ‘new parents’. (In France, this might happen; the original birth records are not sealed - they don’t exist. Sealed records are of course the same as they are invisible.) There is nothing to prosecute here.

So this situation also cuts to the issue of the ‘the same justice for all.’

For Palin, the prosecution would have to address: motive, and advantages accrued. Her case would be ‘special’ because she is a ‘public figure’ - held to other standards. The defense would be holding, imho, a very strong set of cards. I’ll write about motive - because that’s where it gets interesting - later.

@Leona. In my imaginary scenario, which is possibly very close to the truth, there is no insurance fraud, because all med bills for Trig, pre- and post-partum, until the date of his adoption, were paid either by the birth mother, her insurance (family, whatever) or out of pocket, in ‘cash’, by the Palins. The e mail requesting Todd to furnish some paperwork for benefits for Trig would be exactly that - the insurance (or other authority) would have paid out something 'on good faith' or was getting ready to pay (or inscribe, etc.) and demanded some kind of 'proof' for their files, just as a formality of course, that Trig was indeed the son of S and T P.

Andrea.

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Lidia17
7/1/2011 20:43:23

@Allie "Frontier Fiction" LOL!
Lifting rocks… to see what creepy crawlies are underneath? Thanks for your help with the investigation!

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Lidia17
7/2/2011 09:17:41

Andrea, exactly… I have always thought that there is some other source for the funds for Tri-G's "care".

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Venefica
7/2/2011 15:27:01

A very significant Trig-related email was 1397.pdf (Crivella). Dated May 21, 2008, the subject was "Health Dependent Enrollment update." It was addressed to Governor Palin.

In that email, an Alaska state employee wrote: "This is a reminder from the Benefits Section to let you know that, to date, we have not received the dependent verification documents for your new child. To ensure continued coverage for your newborn, please submit a copy of the child's Birth Certificate to us within 60 days of the date of birth. Claims submitted for your dependent child after this time period will be pended until this documentation has been received by the Benefits Section."

Evidently, the Palins had NOT sent in Trig's BC...which would seem to be to be something a parent would automatically do. Note also that the issue related to "continued coverage." Does that mean Trig had already received benefits?

Janice Mason forwarded the request to Todd, with the tag "URGENT."

Todd's response, on May 23, 2008, was: "I called, thanks."

Nothing about taking care of getting the docs sent in. Just "I called." Called to say what, I wonder...?

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Allie
7/2/2011 20:00:45

@ Banyan

I did not mean to suggest that 28 weeks was the earliest point of viability, that's 24 weeks, just that 28 weeks is viable.

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Ferry Fey
7/3/2011 11:54:38

Sorry, comment went through before I was finished.

Second thought, re CBJ and Sarah having or not having email info. I see a number of doctors for various things, and none of them wants email contact. You can't guarantee that it will arrive. You can't guarantee that either party will pick it up in a timely fashion. It can be spoofed or hijacked, and could lead to HIPAA information getting into unauthorized hands.

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emrysa
7/5/2011 12:44:16

nurse allie, I am a little late getting to this post but THANK YOU! this is an outstanding post and I really appreciate your professional, clinical take on these events. you provide a knowledgeable experienced opinion, which is very valuable in sorting out this mystery.

I have followed this story for too long, and you point out something that has not crossed my mind before - that the “no one would ever know” moment would have come after an amnio - which meant she would have been atleast 4 months pregnant when she considered this - who goes around giving speeches essentially saying that she considered having an abortion at such a late stage? she was not pregnant, and the abortion story is just another manufactured element of it all.

again, thank you for taking the time to weigh in, and a big thanks to laura for soliciting your opinion!

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Celia Harrison
7/5/2011 16:12:14

I just now got around to reading the comments for this excellent post. Allie, your knowledge of the details makes your post very valuable. I don't know what state you are in, but the hospitals in the rural areas of Alaska are often like third world country hospitals. The care is very backwards, the doctors and nurses are undereducated. Some of the nursing and medical professionals are very unethical and gossipy (as well as social workers). The state does not make sure the hospitals are in compliance. There are also some really creepy people in administrative positions pulling all kinds of crap. I worked as an RN in several states and have never seen anything like what I have seen here. The ignorance is beyond astounding. I worked at a hospital in Washington state that is famous for workplace bullying and I survived intact. The workplace bullying and community mobbing I got in part for speaking up about the poor patient care, lack of even the use of universal precautions and much more gave me PTSD and I am now on disability. Keep this in mind when you are trying to sort out the facts here and thank you for your efforts to sort this crazy story out.

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Allie
7/5/2011 23:46:50

emrysa, thank you for your kind words. My recollection is that the SP was suggesting to her audience that she contemplated an abortion solely on the basis of the amnio results. She obviously had earlier faced the realization of being pregnant. THAT is when I think she thought about how "no one would ever know" if she had an abortion out of town.

Ferry Fey, I think the discussion about the email address for CBJ was reflecting upon the evident fact that Sarah didn't have contact info easily available for the doctor she claimed she was seeing and delivered her.

Venefica, thanks for bringing that email to our attention. The issue of handling the paperwork for this pregnancy could be another discussion in and of itself!

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