Laura Novak
  • Welcome
  • About
  • NYTs
  • Scribd
  • Murder
  • Clarity
  • Contact

A Wooten/Trig Connection - By Prof. Brad Scharlott

9/29/2011

224 Comments

 
BS:  Laura, a friend on mine on the West Coast said she sees a similarity in looks between Mike Wooten, Sarah Palin’s former brother-in-law, and Trig. So that got me looking at their online photos, and I made the following composite, which shows their heads at the top, and then a close-up of the ears below. (I’ve lightened and sharpened the ear images.) Tell me what you think:

Picture
LN: I think ‘Oh My Goodness. Will this family never cease to amaze?’

BS: When comparing the ears, keep in mind that, if Trig and Wooten are related, Trig’s ear would represent a less mature version of Wooten’s; thus, you should try to picture Trig’s ear with the thickening and deepening that naturally would come with age. The more I look for points of correspondence, the more I am struck by the similarities between the ears.

And it’s not just the ears that are similar. The chins look alike too in the above photos. So that got me looking for more photos displaying their chins. Here is a side-by-side comparison:
Picture
You have to look closely, but don’t you think there is something very distinctive about the shape of both those chins? Almost a round knob shape at the end of the chin?

LN: Um, yup, I see it. I didn’t want to see it. I never thought I’d see it. But it’s not a stretch.

BS: One thing that looks somewhat dissimilar is the shape of the head, with Wooten’s being fatter around the jowls. But his ex-wife testified in the divorce proceedings that he had been taking steroids, which can result in a fattening of the face. (Just compare a photo of the young Roger Clemons with the current, steroid-puffed-up one.) If you can imagine Wooten’s face slimmed down a bit, then he and Trig would seem to have quite similar blockish head shapes.

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that that Wooten might be related to Trig, how does that work out with what we know?

LN: I don’t think the timing of Trig’s birth (year, not month, whatever month that might be) works out in terms of the Palins’ obsession with Wooten. But I do want to comment on uber-author Joe McGinniss. His writing is so subtle in The Rogue. The irony of Joe's stay on Lake Lucille combined with the factual history of Sarah’s life in public office makes for very good reading. He does not hit the reader over the head, but I was floored nevertheless by the passages on the Palins and Mr. Wooten.

And what struck me, Brad, is how truly fixated, obsessed and confused the Palins were about this man. He might very well have been a “bad guy,” but their focus on him was so overweening as to suggest deeper meaning. And by that I mean, yes, we’ve probably all disliked someone our sibling dated or married. Yet, this vendetta went well beyond that. A judge scolded them. Monegan admonished them. Yet the Palin’s drive to somehow separate this man, Wooten, from their family suggested a deeper pathology because no amount of professional advice or threat (from the judge) could stop Todd and Sarah.

BS: First, let me say that while the physical similarities are suggestive, in themselves they mean nothing. As far as I know, half of all Alaskans might have rounded bumps on their chins. But what makes this interesting, as you point out, Laura, is the level of hatred the Palins seemed to harbor for Wooten. Why? It could simply be because Wooten and Molly, Sarah’s sister, had a messy divorce in 2005, with ensuing battles over visitation rights, child support, etc.

But the venom Sarah and Todd exhibited for Wooten does suggest something deeper. They were engaged in a campaign to get him fired, and if they succeeded, that might have actually hurt Molly and her kids, because without a job Wooten would not be able to pay child support.

Whatever it was that caused that hatred may have precipitated the divorce, and whatever it was may have continued after the divorce. But whatever that something was that inspired Sarah’s hatred, I don’t feel comfortable speculating out loud about it. But it does make me want to do more digging.

As to whether Wooten and Trig might be related, keep in mind there’s more than one way that could happen.

LN: A few months ago, when we were looking at the montage of Trig and Levi that a reader put together for me, I discussed it personally with a regular reader of this blog. I said that if Levi looked like Shaq, we would not even be having this discussion. Little did I know how ironic that comment would turn out to be given what we now know from Joe’s thoroughly researched book on Sarah, that she had reportedly slept with a black basketball player.

My point being that curiously, all of these folks resemble one another. No, we are not pointing to someone who looks like Shaq and wondering if he might be Trig’s father. We are looking at a person who, once again, exhibits facial features that are not that far off from this sweet boy’s.

Other people are also seeing resemblances between people who have fraught, tense, and publicly volatile relationships with the Palins. So you are right not to speculate about the cause of Sarah and Todd’s obsession. But it does suggest something beyond a sister being unhappy or poorly treated. What do our readers think?

224 Comments
DiOR
9/29/2011 09:45:29 am

I notice that in the close-up, Wooten looks like he has a "hole" next to his ear lobe, not unlike Ruffles. Does anyone else see that? I know that it is not really a hole; I assume it's a shadow (because there is a deep depression there? Or is it just a trick of the light? Is it visible in other photos?) Just another thing I find confusing.

Reply
Ottoline
9/29/2011 09:59:58 am

I think you missed the discussion re Anastasia, of how for YEARS, different impostors would emerge, and people with some credible link to the old days of that family would produce photos of the child Anastasia and compare the similar features to this new impostor. And "believe with all their heart" that there were details that meant that this imposter MUST be the true Anastasia. I followed several of these quests at the time and over the years, and they were so convincing, and of course one rooted for closure. And then none of them were Anastasia, who was DNA-confirmed to have died in the assassination and buried in a pit with a sister next to a pit containing the rest of the family.

My main problem with this line of thinking is that "looks like" will never work as proof, even if it is true. And what does it gain us? It's the fact of the hoax, not the parentage of the baby, that is the wildly scandalous impropriety. To get into baby details just means complicating it all, for no real gain re the the fact of the hoax.

Okay, if you won't say it, I will. Wooten could be the bioDad via a last fling of some sort with his ex-wife, or he could have been a party companion (wanted or unwanted) of Bristol's. If the latter, my oft-stated scenario of "unsuitable bioDad" would fit, as would the too-early and otherwise pointless amnio (an amnio that might not have happened because we have only SP saying it did, and she said it was an amnio of HER pregnancy, but of course it could not have been) to determine the actual bioDad (leading us to infer that there were multiple candidates for bioDad).

So yes, this is a credible speculation, but only a speculation.

Someday, someone will find a way to grab some DNA from all the usual suspects and pay the $200 for a DNA test, and reveal the results. Which won't count unless/until the DNA test is given under strictly monitored chain-of-evidence conditions (upping the cost a lot); permission for a validated DNA test is something we will never get. Because it's basically none of our beeswax.

What is legitimately our business is a politician perpetrating a BabyHoax upon voters in a presidential election, and who else knew what, and how, and when. And refused to investigate/report it.

So in my opinion, this is an interesting speculation, but it has us heading the wrong way: into the minutiae and details of the Palin family story. When we should be heading the other way, which is toward acknowlegement of the hoax and accountability of its participants, enablers, funders, and (non)reporters. Esp the big-time VIP fat-cat ones.

Reply
GinaM
9/29/2011 10:05:48 am

Hmmm...Laura and Brad this is VERY interesting....let's see if you have touched a nerve by the comments...especially the "concerned troll" ones. Don't forget Molly has another ex husband...last name of McCann and they didn't go after him...so there is definitely something in their hostility towards Wooten....AND LEVI!!

The ones that go away!

Reply
B
9/29/2011 10:15:34 am

Brad, I'm of several minds.

I used to wonder what horrible thing Wooten did to inspire such retaliation by the Palins. But then as I learned of their vengeance against everyone for any little or big thing, I decided it really could be because of the divorce.

Before the divorce, Wooten ended up babysitting the Palin kids a lot, and also there was speculation that Sarah hid Bristol's pregnancy to avoid a statutory rape court case.

Perhaps the attempts to get Wooten fired were to get him out of Wasilla and away from Bristol if they had continued socializing. But it's hard to believe Sarah wouldn't have thrown Bristol into a court case if it could have gotten Wooten thrown in jail.

Reply
Melly
9/29/2011 10:15:53 am

Sensitive, fascinating discussion, once again. But the picture comparison...not so much. Similar coloring maybe, ears no, chin no, eyebrows no, face who knows. Who was it who Bristol stayed with in Anchorage in 2007-8? Molly? I've thought maybe B was there helping, not having the baby herself but building a relationship w/ him, and so resenting it when Sarah claims him. Bristol's desire to have her own child would come from that and having held and cared for an infant.

Anyway, I see Levi in this pic of Trig. In the recent one where he is standing with Tripp, I saw Sarah, or at least that picture of her as a child holding lobsters or something. Which is why I believe he comes from a Palin or Heath.

Reply
Take a Bow
9/29/2011 10:22:01 am

Wooten is the only Ex they don't like. Jack M is still beloved by the family and visits frequently. Wooten does (or did) have his fair share of personal problems and I believe he owned them in an interview.

I also believe the whole family has moved on from the debacle. Both Molly and Wooten are seeing people.

Remember, DS children not only share a look, but they resemble a great many people, regardless of heritage or bloodline. I remember seeing one of the Palinsbot's pictures of herself and Trig (when she visited AK). She too resembled Trig greatly.

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/29/2011 10:22:06 am

Larger truths can sometimes emerge as a result of an accumulation of smaller truths. And the ways in which truths, large and small, may come to light is not always a simple, straightforward matter. I've raised questions here that could spur research, cause people to reexamine memories, look for connections where they have not looked before. Searching for truth in the face of unconscionable liars may require taking off kid gloves. I'm a journalist and an historian. I'm not putting yellow keep-away tape around any topic.

Reply
PatG
9/29/2011 10:24:32 am

Speculation about who Trig may resemble isn't worthy of the time you two spent on it. Inquiries about how he is, who is taking care of him, is he receiving appropriate therapy if needed, and is he being nurtured and loved would be time well spent.

I'm a fan of this blog and read it regularly. Somehow beyond my ability to stop it, following these blogs about Palin and Alaska and all things related has become my hobby. I now know more about Alaska's enormity, beauty, stunning landscapes and politics than I ever imagined I would and I like that - I like learning. I don't like liars, duplicitous politicians, and neglecting children and now I know too much about those in Alaska.

Todd and Sarah Palin's all-consuming and seemingly irrational hatred of Wooten, in my opinion, makes them appear mentally ill or hiding the real reason for the intensity and length of the obsession or both. An inquiry into this is time well spent but please, please, don't toss in pictures of Trig unless and until some actual connection is proven.
Thank you.

Reply
Palinoia
9/29/2011 10:25:53 am

Hmmm....I don't think there is anything here, really. There could be, but as Ottoline points out, "looks like" just isn't going to get it, especially in terms of identifying a potential father for Trig, and really we don't need to even do that. The only place "looks like" works for me is that the photo evidence of Sarah's pregnancy "looks like" she wasn't pregnant, and then she was, and then she wasn't again.

It truly is about the hoax, or as I prefer to call it the BeFD. Big Egregious Fraudulent Deception. Of course BFD has another meaning as well, so feel free to sub in the appropriate word(s), LOL. Hoax just never sounds strong enough for what she did.

I'm sorry I've been quiet this week, the real job has been more demanding. I'm hoping to have Part II ready to send to Laura really soon, thanks for everyone's patience!



Reply
Destiny's children
9/29/2011 10:27:31 am

Have you SEEN Todd interact with Trig? That's one man who has always shown immense love for that boy. Do you really think Todd would show that kind of genuine love for Wooten's child? (Not saying he doesn't not love his nephew and niece but CMON)

I will say that I've always found Chuck Jr's youngest son and Trig to resemble each other. And I've found Trig in some pictures to resemble Chuck Jr. Need more liquor.

Reply
Nasty Liberal link
9/29/2011 10:30:23 am

There is absolutely no denying it: those ears are both--<i>ears!</i>

Reply
Ottoline
9/29/2011 10:39:44 am

You are right, Brad (and Laura), re looking at everything, and besides you can do no wrong after putting your paper out there.

I was dismayed by all the attn to youthful loves and drugs -- although attn getting, they aren't as relevant as all the rest of it.

Reply
crystalwolfakacaligrl
9/29/2011 10:54:05 am

I think that TriG looks like "Blue TriG" the one that is more animated and aware than the TriG at the RNC! I think that is one of Gina Loudons Rent a DS baby, lol!

Reply
Jack
9/29/2011 10:56:35 am

All I can surmise is that there is something really fishy about the way the Paylins acted towards Wooten. Really...really fishy. Always thought something was festering...really festering.

Reply
Ferry Fey
9/29/2011 10:59:26 am

I think this is both fruitless and damaging. We've had plenty of people play the Who Does Trig Resemble? game, and every single time there seem to be as many putative parents as there are people guessing, except for those of us who feel Trig's Down Syndrome characteristics just make it too difficult to say.

Anyway, if you do want to try this, you have to compare Bristol, Sarah and Todd at the same time as Wooten. And if the baby is not a child of any if them, as it is possible, you could still find correspondences between the ones you are considering that were false positives.

As far as hate and vengeance, Wooten is not the first person Sarah Palin hated and wanted to take vengeance on, nor will he be the last.

Reply
comeonpeople
9/29/2011 11:01:06 am

I'd like to see Johnny Chandler and Dylan Kolvig's (sp?) ears actually....

But yes Brad, the Palins' hatred of Wooten is deep and disturbing. Maybe it is simply because he saw what a crappy mother Sarah was and wasn't afraid to blab about it? Maybe he knew what a party girl Bristol was?

Reply
ja.thought
9/29/2011 11:06:49 am

Just curious if the idea that Wooten was involved with Track's arrest was shot down. I have no information here. I just remember the question being posed.

I don't think Wooten would have agreed to be interviewed by Nick Broomfield if Trig were his child. Just an opinion.

Reply
CO
9/29/2011 11:10:55 am

Im of the notion that Wooten knew about Tracks 'problems'.
Also too, a uniform of some sort drove Track/sp to the enlistment office.
They covered-up everything about Track.

Other than that, it seems most who live in wasilly are inbred to some extent.
There are only so many to dance with in places like that.

Reply
ja.thought
9/29/2011 11:13:38 am

Wasn't the uniform who drove Track to the enlistment office the state trooper who took care of Sarah as governor?

Reply
jadez
9/29/2011 11:13:44 am

your argument simply doesnt fit.

why make the one person who can blow your hoax out of the water your main target?

my guess is this guy got under their skin the way he has becasue they couldnt get the best of him and it is THAT pathology that has motivated their actions against him.

Reply
AFM
9/29/2011 11:19:01 am

It is so interesting. I wonder if this woman will ever tell the truth to her children? I mean what about Track? I wonder if he knows that Todd might not be his father. This is one screwed up family. I'm reading Rogue and it is interesting that the kids call their parents by their first names and not mom and dad. What a screwed up family.

Reply
ja.thought
9/29/2011 11:25:29 am

There is a persistent problem with blogs. There are facts - like Sarah Palin was never pregnant with Trig. There are ideas - some of them crazy as we talk out loud while we try to make sense of the why and how. All of this is fine. And yet, I think we would be best served by stating at the top that we are just exploring ideas when that is just what we are doing. People visiting blogs from the outside might just see what is up on a given day and have no context.

Reply
Judy
9/29/2011 11:27:31 am

Quite some time ago, one of the Palin bloggers quit when they found out the truth about Trig and the family. They said that when others found out the truth, everyone would feel sorry for the family. I hope this has nothing to do with his nieces.

Reply
Tom link
9/29/2011 11:28:38 am

Thinking maybe the whose ear looks like whose ear may have done it for me. Kid looks like every other DS kid I've ever seen (not that I looked that closely). Really.

You might have something with the lenghts that the Ps went to get Wooten fired. I'd look at why TP was so aggressively pursuing that end (see Bailey's account ). Was his persistence personal or is he really that whipped.

On the TP being whipped subject. Met a guy her (ANC) yesterday and the P name came up (i did it). Guy told me that T was a good guy that he knew from playing H.S. Bball against hjim. Said he was a good guy but, his words, 'sold otu'. Don't know if the guy was being honest or just read the AK Dispatch article belittling TP for selling out.

And, once again, wish more attention was paid to the fake half marathon. ozzie might be onto something.

Reply
Tom link
9/29/2011 11:38:23 am

Laura-- You know, I'm becoming a little skeptical of things not SP. This ear business is putting me off. I'm questioning motives. This post feels way more tabloid-ish than the already tabloid material presented. I'm all for exposing the woman but, I don't know, don't put the kid's photo up like that with the ear scrutiny and all. Not for me.

Reply
ja.thought
9/29/2011 11:44:55 am

@Judy 18:27

What Judy said here is a bit disturbing. Perhaps that blogger was a Palin plant who said that to put us off. If that blogger was genuine, it is disturbing. Many things Palin are disturbing.

Reply
Joie Vouet link
9/29/2011 11:45:51 am

A "friend" of Michele Bachmann's told her the HPV vaccine causes retardation. Bachmann may wish she never had such a "friend."

Reply
Tom link
9/29/2011 11:50:27 am

@Judy and JA-- this isn't the first time we've heard about the Trig thing being sad. Judy, you wrote 'his nieces.' Whose nieces? 'The family.' Whose family?

Reply
FrostyAK
9/29/2011 11:57:18 am

The intense hatred of Wooten has never really been explained. In things palin, I think ANYthing is possible. IMO, better to chase down the probable.

The best way to approach this is to try to find out why the intense hatred exists. May be linked to her relationships with Kopp and Schmidtt? Kopp is known to be a dominionist. Is Schmidt?

I'm with most, Trig looks like most of the kids with DS I have encountered in this area. I have encountered many, but choose not to publicize why that is... y'all know why. I never looked at their ears however. Are there a great number of pics of kids with DS on the web? Ears? For comparison.

Reply
Joie Vouet link
9/29/2011 11:58:45 am

Brad, Will you state that your "friend" is not Laura? Sometimes I get the impression there is something like a good-cop/bad-cop routine going on here.

Reply
Mayfair Belle
9/29/2011 12:00:18 pm

"It is so interesting. I wonder if this woman will ever tell the truth to her children?"

What makes you think there's secrecy in the family? They seem pretty tight to me, immediate and extended. These are people who see each other constantly. How many of us see our distant relatives every other month or so?

We keep thinking/saying/dreaming this is a horrible situation. However, these people aren't living unpleasant lives. That is certain.

Reply
BluedogAK
9/29/2011 12:00:36 pm

f you're interested in reading in excruciating detail just how unhinged and vindictive Sarah and her sister Molly are, you will enjoy reading the original documents from the troopers' investigation into Wooten.

I hope it's OK to include these links, Laura. Google docs has a 33-page report that summarizes interviews with Sarah, Todd, Molly, Track, Bristol, and Wooten. These took place before she was governor.

http://tinyurl.com/6de54o5

This great blog has a timeline of the scandal with many links to various documents and reports:

http://apocalyptickiwi.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/the-case-for-the-impeachment-of-governor-sarah-palin/

Some interview transcripts and other documents are here:

http://pubrecord.org/politics/909/documents-suggest-palin-obsessed-over-retaliating-against-ex-brother-in-law/

The interviews with Sarah are hilarious. Turned out almost everything she complained about to the AST was hearsay or wrong. You'll recognize her blatant BSing, too.

These records also show how much she lied about her actions later. For example, as governor she claimed that she and Todd feared Wooten because he had made a death threat to Chuck Heath. But in one of these interviews, a trooper asks Sarah why she waited TWO WEEKS to tell her father about this alleged death threat. She said it was because Wooten had no reason to hurt her father. WTF!!!?

Anyway, they're all great fun to read--but not so funny when you realize how much this nastiness dominated her role as governor, how many people she dragged through the muck, and how much she got away with ultimately.

Reply
Tom link
9/29/2011 12:06:43 pm

@Mayfair Belle--

Just so you know, most of Laura's posters have advanced beyond the harlequin novels that you seem to eponymously enjoy.

Reply
Sally
9/29/2011 12:19:21 pm

@MayfairBelle,

Hi Brooklyn. And if they are so close and happy, why are Bristol, Willow and the kids in LA? Why doesn't Bristol let Tripp see his father? Why is Track totally off the radar? Why has Sarah never gushed about the new grand daughter? Why was the big family 'vacation' only with Piper? Yeah, one big loving family. We should all be so lucky to have a Sarah to love us and hold us all together.

Reply
Olivia
9/29/2011 12:19:39 pm

Mayfair Belle, yes I am sure they all get together at Applebee's and family picnics weekly whining how immature and judgmental everyone else is. Apparently you missed the earlier discussion that families who can't seem to get out into the world and away from each other can be enormously sickly dependent on each other. Someone said quite rightly that a family can keep its secrets best when the children are kept close.

Reply
physicsmom
9/29/2011 12:25:12 pm

I agree with @Ottoline, there are more fruitful lines of inquiry, although the knob on the chin is very similar. I don't think this means anything though.

O/T I assume everyone has been following the Storm Lake Race saga over at Oz Mudflats. Oz has done a tremendous job of really examining the first photo published at Gretawire and the subsequent race photos and, I believe, definitively established that 1) the original picture was photoshopped and 2) it is very unlikely that Sarah Palin/Heath actually ran the entire race. Part of his/her analysis includes a revelation that Palin actually didn't run her supposed "record-breaking" full marathon in 2005. If you haven't been watching that site, it's a great read.

Reply
sjk link
9/29/2011 12:27:44 pm

trig looks like $arah too, and I am no fan of hers.

Reply
Up
9/29/2011 12:28:05 pm

Trig certainly is a handsome little boy.

I don't see a there, there. To me there is no stronger resemblance than you see in a community with a large subpopulation from one part of the world. (I live in Boston and see a lot of people with what are obviously Irish features. I didn't see quite so many of those features when I was traveling in Minnesota this summer, because there aren't so many descendants of Irish immigrants. I did see other features repeated there. Scandinavian maybe?)

As for the strong hatred of Wooten? He knows a lot of their dirty laundry, and I assume he doesn't cower when Sarah flashes her evil eye at him. Reading the Rogue, I get the sense that few people in Alaska blatantly go against Sarah & Todd's wishes. The Palins don't like to be challenged.

Reply
Sharon
9/29/2011 12:28:27 pm

Reply
SLQ
9/29/2011 12:37:26 pm

@Tom -- I share your concern about photos of this child, Trig. However, I think it's important to remember that this photo is publicly available because Sarah put it out there. The photo of this child, with Sarah's flag pin in plain view and his red, white, and blue t-shirt, are there because she made it a photo op. I think the plethora of available photos like this make it less intrusive to compare. Her public treatment of him, starting onstage at the RNC with his startled expression, and continuing to the sad photos of him at book signings, is one reason I became interested in this story.

I also think the vendetta against Wooten is worth investigating. Her campaign against him was continued and rose to a level above any other of her targets, including Joe McGinniss, whom we know she detests. The why of the Wooten vendetta is important.

Reply
sharon
9/29/2011 12:40:02 pm

I do not agree that Wooten is the father of Trig. I always thought Trig resembled Levi - dark hair, fair complexion, etc.

However, I've always wondered why Wooten didn't pursue a civil action against the palins. The books, blogs and troopergate investigation uncovered the extent to which the palins and their hired bots went to get him fired. If anyone had reason and a strong case to sue, it was him. There is a reason for the bad blood there.

I won't say it's impossible. But the records already show that bristol and levi both dropped out of school at the same time and disappeared off the radar. Pretty compelling evidence that makes me not dismiss them as the likely parents.

But - the fact that levi continues to lie about Trig's birth mother leaves me wondering if it was because he lied to begin with. They're all liars and the truth is probably that Levi is the father and he gave his son over to the awful woman and cannot undo his decision - so he made a deal with the devil and is still running with the original lie.

There is something hidden with the whole Wooten thing - that much I totally believe. Exactly what that is remains to be seen.

If there was any truth to the theory that wooten fathered trig with bristol, that would be a huge reason he didn't sue them for harrassment and slander. The plot thickens....

Reply
Dis Gusted
9/29/2011 12:40:23 pm

Just curious if the idea that Wooten was involved with Track's arrest was shot down.

yes - he was involved.



I've long suspected that Wooten is directly related to TriG. SP once spoke of the entire family being embarrassed by Molly's multiple pregnancies with multiple men.

I always figured Diana Palin was the mother though.... She acts very maternal to TriG and the original reports of her arrest for B&E (second time) mentioned that she had a 4 year old with her AND AN INFANT.

All pulled from the internet of course...and changed.

Reply
Glenn
9/29/2011 12:40:57 pm

<i>Do you really think Todd would show that kind of genuine love for Wooten's child?</i>

Perhaps if Trig were Bristol's child and his grandchild he would, despite Wooten.

Reply
eva marie
9/29/2011 12:42:22 pm

re: Judy's comment

I have been around all these blogs since the beginning. You can still see my posts on Audrey's blog where I posted as casacalvo.

While a few blogs have come and gone these past three years I have never heard it said someone closed up shop because they learned the truth.

Can Judy tell us directly or perhaps indirectly who this blogger was?

Reply
Viola-Alex
9/29/2011 12:46:51 pm

more may be revealed in the new Broomfield film. Isn't Wooten interviewed?

It may not be true that Wooten suffered more of Sarah's wrath than anyone else -- if you consider the unexplained accidents of Miller, Menard, and those ministers.



Reply
TF
9/29/2011 12:47:32 pm

I agree that the intensity of the Palin's vendetta against Wooten seems out of proportion to what has been disclosed. However, I think it predates anything to do with Trig. Palin's sister and Mike Wooten filed for divorce in 2005 and the divorce was granted at the end of Jan. 2006. According to The Rogue, the Palins were gunning for him as soon as she was sworn in as governor, so it's hard for me to believe their animosity has to do with Trig. (I do see an amazing resemblance in the interior of Trig's and Wooten's ear, however!)

Reply
sharon
9/29/2011 12:58:15 pm

Darn it...now I'm thinking about this whole theory and not sure what to think!

Well, if we're going to consider the theories here..what if Track is the father? Ok, that's outrageous to even suggest and i know I'll probably get a lot of angry responses to even suggest it ....would that explain Trig's condition?

Track is not very connected to his family ..

Making him join the service - sarah's coldness towards him then and now?

How could she do anything but claim him to be her own to hide the awful truth.

maybe levi really didn't know the truth of that baby's real father?

Please don't hate me for my theory. It's not to disrespect anyone. It's just all so insane with them.

Reply
eva marie
9/29/2011 12:58:28 pm

I am one of those people who study faces and really enjoy the beauty and complexity of how humans look and relate to each other with expressions.

I do enjoy the many discussions we have had about the resemblance of all these people but there is really no way to tell by looks.

I have a cousin who looks like no one in our family or her father's family. I recently had the priviledge to scan all of my aunt's pictures and ran across a 1940s picture of a teenage girl who could be my cousin's twin. My aunt tells me she is a distant relation - distant to my aunt mind you.

Genes are amazing things!

Reply
Ottoline
9/29/2011 01:04:39 pm

With all the corruption and sleaze surrounding police activities in SP's neighborhood, it seems 99% certain that Wooten knows a bunch of behind-the-scenes stuff (incl about Track) that we will never know, and ditto the SP team. They surely have more goods on each other than just what we know about.

So for me, there's plenty of reason for animosity without our long-distance and fact-deprived speculations.

Besides, I'm not aiming to address family, community, or even AK state issues. Your goals may differ. I'm aiming to address an unacknowledged hoax in a national election. And all that it implies, but mainly looking UP the chain of responsibility rather than down.

Reply
Ottoline
9/29/2011 01:18:32 pm

Sharon: Over the 3 years, we have rolled every possibility around in our minds to try to explain/understand things, including that one. My conclusion is that we might never know, and also that that doesn't matter. The political hoax is what matters. To us.

Also, just to mention again that the DS associations state clearly that there is no known cause of DS. And we know that in in-bred societies that have been studied, the incidence of DS is not higher (although the incidence of certain other genetic markers is higher). We cannot extrapolate the mother's characteristics by looking at the stats backwards, either.

There is no way we will be able to "explain Trig's condition." Not if medical science has not done so up to this point.

Reply
Allie RN
9/29/2011 01:26:26 pm

I hear what you are saying, Brad. Many crimes have been solved by a clue that didn't seem to fit at first.

As far as the prolonged pursuit of Wooten, I think it is because S&T got pushback, which they weren't used to. Sure, SP as mayor got sued for her firings, but that was after the fact and because practically everyone is an "at will" employee, none of the firings were found illegal. But S&T put their position out there and they stubbornly refused to change course no matter what the pushback was. Bullies who are challenged don't back down, right? I think that explains most of it.

If you would have posted the picture without a name, I wouldn't have known who it was.

Reply
Ottoline
9/29/2011 01:31:25 pm

Also, just wanted to say that for those of us who have been following this search for the 3 yrs, I think we have discussed facts, corrected each other re false conclusions or nonfactual conclusions, and just rolled it all around, helped by photos, videos, and each other. As Yogi Berra said: "You can observe a lot by looking."

So I bet that in the years to come as the truth keeps seeping out and we eventually have a much more complete picture of what really happened, it will not be very far from our speculations and our intuitive takes.

That's what's so tantalizing: we almost have it. But not quite. No proof for lots of things that seem obvious from an abundance of circumstantial data, and even when there's the photo proof of the hoax itself, many people won't accept it as proof for a variety of reasons.

And now I think the challenge is to get the hoax acknowledged and some of the tough questions asked of the McCains, etc. Not that they will answer them.

My fear is that this issue will just slide off the radar, SP disappear without accountability for the hoax, which would serve the guilty so well.

Reply
ja.thought
9/29/2011 01:39:03 pm

@Dis Gusted

I know very little about Diana Palin. Todd is fond of Trig. Are Todd and Diana close? Is Diana currently involved with Trig's care?

In McGinniss CTV interview that the focus was on Sarah adopting a DS baby for political reasons. In any case, Trig was likely born before Sarah decided to announce her pregnancy with him. He could be Bristol's or someone else's (like Diana). The decision for Sarah to "give birth to" as opposed to just adopt is a strange one. Both would make her look good with her base. I guess I still lean towards Bristol as the birth mother since I don't know that Sarah would feel the need to hide just anyone's pregnancy. Unless, there really is a dreadful family secret (beyond simple teen pregnancy) and adoption would just highlight the real conditions for Trig's birth.

"me again" implied Bristol has now given birth to three babies. Bristol seems like the most likely choice for Trig's birth mother. Levi is still my number one suspect for the father.

AND none of my thinking out loud above may be true and YET that Sarah Palin did not give birth to Trig is still a FACT.

Reply
Marie
9/29/2011 01:46:35 pm

Reading this makes me think of the Beltway sniper story in fall of 2002.

As some of you will recall, a mysterious sniper was traveling around the Washington DC metropolitan area, striking down ordinary people at random and then vanishing. This wreaked havoc on the area and had a huge impact on everyday life, cancelling everything from public school outdoor recess to community events all over the region. (The community response was major overkill IMHO---more people die in traffic accidents every day than died in a month of sniper attacks---but that's another story.)

Anyway, we had only one clue: A white van had been seen leaving the scene of the various shootings. The police set up roadblocks and interviewed everyone who drove a white van. Meanwhile, everyone in the Washington area paid really special close attention to white vans, wherever we might be.

Eventually the sniper was caught. Turned out there were two snipers, not one. And they were driving a beat-up blue Chevy Caprice, not a white van at all. In fact, the snipers had been interviewed by the police several times in the various post-shooting roadblocks, and had gotten away every time because they weren't driving a white van.

So..........To solve this mystery, we must of course look at every clue and explore every angle. But we must not be so sure of what we "know" as fact. Because perhaps some of what we think we know might be yet another white van.

Reply
SLQ
9/29/2011 02:09:04 pm

I agree that the timing seems off. One thing that strikes me from the clips of Broomfield's movie is that Wooten says the kids essentially lived with them for 4 or 4 1/2 years. We know the marriage disintegrated, and Troopergate establishes that there was much animosity.

I do not condone adults having inappropriate relationships with teen girls. Not at all -- I believe it is sexual abuse, exploitation and it is certainly illegal. However, teen girls generally live off their emotions and often don't understand this. They sometimes profess their love for and desire to be with their abuser.

What happens when teenage girls have a forbidden relationship? Parents who are doing what is in the child's best interests, separate the child from the older man. (Normally, they would also file charges, but perhaps not if the girl was adamant she wouldn't cooperate.) But often, this separation cannot be enforced. It could lead to continued, sporadic contact, which could ultimately lead to a pregnancy.

All this is pure speculation, and I don't have any reason to suspect any such thing happened here. But the above scenario could explain the protracted and intesne vendetta.

Reply
Mir
9/29/2011 02:14:39 pm

OK, I've been checking everyone's ears that I've seen in the last 24 hours. Among my family and friends so far (5 people, as of now) I found another set of ear that fits the bill. I'm not sure this formation is that unusual.

Be that as it may, the Trooper Wooten story has been blown way out of (obvious) proportion by the Palins, and by the authors who have covered the Palins, leaving me to believe there is more to the story than anyone is willing to put into print -- at least explicitly.

I have to wonder if Wooten has something major on Todd, perhaps concerning his business dealings, and that may be why is Wooten so poisonous to them.

I think Track's misdeeds probably pale in comparison to Todd's.

Reply
Tom link
9/29/2011 02:16:38 pm

@Bluedog--From the article you linked, classic SP before revenge sets in-- similar to the kind and flattering words of recommendation she had for Levi before she got him fired.

In a Jan. 1, 2000, letter of reference, Palin wrote that if “America had more people with the grace and sincerity that mirrors the character of Mike Wooten…we would have a much kinder, gentler, trustworthy nation as a result. … "

She's one sure as hell Old Testament piece of garbage.

Reply
caligirl
9/29/2011 02:36:46 pm

Maybe NOBODY knows exactly who the realbio Dad is, but there were numerous possibilities. Maybe BP threw WHooten under the bus to protect herself. SP could NEVER let it go, her usual behavior.

Reply
ja.thought
9/29/2011 02:45:31 pm

@Mir

Wooten actions regarding Track's misdeeds might be part of the reason for the vindictiveness of the Palins towards Wooten. Track's misdeeds are public. Sarah and Todd cannot blackmail Wooten. They can go after him as in Troopergate.

Todd certainly has misdeeds which might include not just paying for sex but also trafficking in sex. But if Todd went after Wooten, why wouldn't Wooten just threaten to tell what he knows about Todd and make it public.

It makes more sense for Sarah and Todd's vendetta against Wooten to be based on something that is already public (e.g. Track) or for Sarah and Todd to have something illegal on Wooten so that Wooten stays (relatively) quiet while being attacked.

Reply
Cracklin Charlie
9/29/2011 02:46:36 pm

I'm not so sure that I see a striking resemblance between Wooten and Trig, but I do think that the man must know lots of secrets. And I agree that the vendetta that Sarah and Todd waged against him was vicious, even by Palin standards.

The fact that he was related by marriage would give him inside information about the family. State troopers in rural locations usually know quite a bit about what is going on in their jurisdiction, as well. And he has claimed that he was responsible for a lot of whatever parenting was received by those Palin children.

Being purely speculative here, but could Sarah have had a romantic relationship with him before or during the time that her sister was married to Wooten? We know something about what has happened to one of her past lovers.

Reply
Tom link
9/29/2011 02:46:53 pm

Brad--

You don't want to yellow tape any topic yet you insisted on three sites that I saw that the half marathon photo posted by GWire was either real or staged. It was neither real nor staged but your endorsement of it led to "If Brad says so..." comments.

A possible similarity between the ear of a DS child and his uncle-in-law isn't a clue. That bogus photo was one.

Reply
SLQ
9/29/2011 03:37:50 pm

Another thought about Troopergate. The ongoing attempt to get Wooten fired probably indicates they wanted him out of the area, possibly out of Alaska. If he was fired for cause, it would make it difficult for him to get a job as a law enforcement officer anywhere. That implies that getting him out of the area was more important than him providing for his children.

Of course, it sometimes appears that Sarah does not think things through. But you'd think Molly would. Per The Rogue (and I remember seeing this other places, as well), the judge did point out the lack of job/income issue in the divorce proceedings in 2006, and did warn Molly that he would not hesitate to award custody to Wooten if it continued (I just happened to be on that chapter this evening). However, the judge did not apparently follow through when it did continue.

So I guess the question is: What would be so important that it was more important for him to be gone than to provide for his children?

Reply
FrostyAK
9/29/2011 03:56:20 pm

And all this brings us to the question of who ELSE was involved in the TP prostitution ring? When was it all in motion, who might have stumbled upon it? What might have kept the one discovering it from busting it? And why is the APD STILL covering it up?

The rabbit hole just gets darker as we try to navigate it. NOTHING seem to be too depraved for these people. So, any of the above theories don't seem so far 'out there' anymore, do they?

Reply
Me
9/29/2011 04:12:29 pm

Wow! I would totally buy that the baby is Bristol and Wooten's.

I doubt it's Sarah's, as I'm sure Wooten would have spilled the beans by now.

This is a very good catch. I was never one who bought into Track being Menard's (he actually looks more like Todd to me...especially in the chin), and I was kind of on the fence about Sarah's "pregnancy" with Trig...but this is really damning!

Trig looks JUST like this dude!

Reply
Me
9/29/2011 04:16:48 pm

It would also explain Levi's carelessness. He may really not have known that Bristol was pregnant, especially if she was living a lifestyle that didn't promote the pregnancy growing in a healthy way.

If she was sent away to another school and area during that time (the mono incident), that would also explain how he didn't know that she was pregnant.

This would also explain why they had to recreate a whole hospital room scene for Levi's sake a few months later (I'm assuming Trig was born sometime in February).

This all makes sense.

Reply
FrostyAK
9/29/2011 04:31:49 pm

OT - people named in McG's book being threatened:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/breakingnews/mcginniss-says-people-quoted-in-sarah-palin-book-have-been-threatened--130812658.html

Does anyone else find it odd that such news is reported by the FOREIGN press?

Reply
KMR
9/29/2011 08:30:36 pm

Upon my first read I was thinking that this is just too crazy. But since I too had thought, several times, that the entire Wooten deal had too many unanswered questions, I've decided to let it marinate by trying to stay open to all possibilities.
I'm off to work but perhaps another look see at Palin vs. Wooten: Chronology of a Scandal would help.
http://apocalyptickiwi.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/palin-vs-wooten

Reply
comeonpeople
9/29/2011 08:34:44 pm

@Judy, Jathought, Tom
The line about the real story is too sad or something is an urban legend, whisper down the lane that has taken on a life of its own. The comment that the real story is sad and we will feel sorry is NOT from any insider or worker of Sarah's, it was a commenter named BlueTx (if i recall correctly) and there is no more reason to believe it than that. This was a few years ago, it was initially at either IM, or palingates but it people have taken that comment and run with it.
I think the reason itis an urban legend now is that I'll posit that most of us are normal people. If you have read The Sociopath Next Door, you will learn that normal people have a hard time assigning craziness to people and we naturally want to think, "Oh, Sarah did this to protect her family becasue the real story is SO SAD".........time will tell, but I think we may find that the real story is Bristol was knocked up a few times and Sarah used a DS fetus for politcal gain. Sad? Yes, for Tri-G and America.

Reply
OzMud link
9/29/2011 08:49:08 pm

In the cher movie 'Mask' there is a scene where the boy with (lionitis) sees himself in a mirror that offers him a glimpse of what he might have looked like without the disease. It was a gut-wrenching moment in the film.

Down Syndrome also tends to alter facial features - and in a manner that offers great similarities between individuals. Some years ago I watched a documentary on DS that demonstrated through computer animation, what a child with DS might have looked like without the occurance of DS.

I'm pretty sure the computer program used then would be far more accurate today in portraying what a child might look like without DS. I for one would be more than interested in seeing these results but have no clue where to begin tracking down what must be a rather expensive software package.

Maybe one of the Universities could provide Prof. Scharlott access?

Reply
comeonpeople
9/29/2011 09:01:30 pm

@OzMud
Mask was a wonderful movie, very well done. Cher was a very good asctress. My best memory of that movie was when the boy told his blind girlfriend that he looked like the god Adonis. It was a touching film.

I think Bristol had a baby or two, with FAS or ther anomaly and the Tri-G was replaced. It could be that Tri-G came from a famaly member...remember Sarah's rise was the perfect storm of circumstances...and someone in the family providing her a TRi-g replacement would certainly appear to Sarah as divine intervention and confirmation that she was the anointed one to lead the US to the End Times.
Perfect storm.

Reply
Ivyfree
9/29/2011 09:23:19 pm

"I have to wonder if Wooten has something major on Todd, perhaps concerning his business dealings, and that may be why is Wooten so poisonous to them."

I realize this is Sarah and Todd we're talking about, but if somebody has something major on them, why would they do their best to piss that person off? Logic would suggest you try to win that person to your side.

Reply
grammy97
9/29/2011 09:44:32 pm

Brad and Laura: I'm sort of enjoying these new ideas; it gets the mental juices flowing to consider something outlandish. Thanks.

But I'd like to remind us ALL of an important fact: Levi Johnston's son Tripp is a hostage in the Palin family. That absolutely must control what he does.

And Mike Wooten's children are also hostages in the Palin family. Why don't we consider that when trying to figure out the "why" of behavior?

Reply
V ictoria link
9/29/2011 09:49:54 pm

I agree that the ears look similar, but all this tells me is that Trig's ears resemble more ears in the population than I realized. I always thought that Trig's ears resembled Sarah's, and was evidence that Trig was somehow related to her, hence somewhere in the Heath-Palin clan. With this (I believe spurious) resemblance to Wooten I will no longer cling as adamantly to that theory.

Alas, I have never followed Troopergate so I can't comment intelligently on Wooten.

Reply
Ivyfree
9/29/2011 09:52:38 pm

"the Palins' hatred of Wooten is deep and disturbing. Maybe it is simply because he saw what a crappy mother Sarah was and wasn't afraid to blab about it? Maybe he knew what a party girl Bristol was?"

I hadn't heard before this discussion that Wooten actually babysat for the Palins. Possible scenario: he's being used by the Palins as a babysitter occasionally. The Palin kids misbehave. (Not a stretch of the imagination!) Or maybe he overhears the older kids talking about stuff they've done, and yells at them about it, and talks to Sarah, telling her that she needs to start paying more attention to the kids because they're starting to act out.

Then, coincidentally, Wooten's and Molly's marriage starts going down the drain. From what I gather, they've both been married several times, so it probably would have done so under any circumstances. Sarah's pissed at Wooten for implying that she's not a good mother AND now he's involved in a deteriorating marriage. I don't know Molly, but the vindictive divorce isn't unheard of- maybe Molly vented to her family about what a jerk he was, etc.

Curtis Menard spoke to Sarah about her parenting. I just think that's enough to tip Sarah over the edge. It doesn't appear that Molly was telling her family, "he's a fine man- we just weren't right together." Some divorces are amicable and the partners are better off for it. This doesn't appear to be one of those divorces.

Sarah never forgives and forgets. We've heard that from so many people, she's incredibly vindictive. I can see her wanting to make Wooten's life miserable just because he told her she's not paying enough attention to the kids and she needs to prioritize.

If Wooten got Bristol pregnant? I don't think he'd still be around. Seriously? I think he'd have had an accident or been disappeared in the woods, or something like that. Lotta empty space out there where people can get lost, and die of exposure.

Reply
Sunday
9/29/2011 09:53:19 pm

@Ivyfree: "... but if somebody has something major on them, why would they do their best to piss that person off? Logic would suggest you try to win that person to your side."

If that somebody is also implicated and thus would expose himself, and is less powerful to deny guilt.

To me, the Shailey Tripp allegation of police and Palin collusion in illegal activity is far more interesting than who looks like who.

Reply
NSG
9/29/2011 10:11:20 pm

The part of this discussion that's resonating with me is the fact that the Palins went overboard, even by their extreme standards, where Wooten was concerned. At one point, he was a trusted family member, taking care of the kids and getting a glowing letter of reference, and then he most definitely was not.

Sounds like something there is a Big Secret for S&T.

Joe's reporting of this story in The Rogue was eye-opening for me. And now I'm curious that Wooten has appeared in Broomfield's doc. (Which isn't out here til next week, so I haven't seen it.)

But what's curious to me is that Wooten seems willing to appear with Nick, but he apparently didn't disclose any bombshells in the doc. So it sounds like whatever is there is something that he's still motivated to keep secret. By extension, then, it's reasonable to believe it's something that would be hurtful to him or someone he cares about were he to talk about it, or he's still fearful of some repercussions. (But not so fearful to stay away from Nick altogether.)

Hmmmmm....

Reply
B
9/29/2011 10:19:22 pm

Molly is seeing someone else? I thought she married the P.I. she used in the divorce from Wooten. Maybe I'm wrong.

Reply
NSG
9/29/2011 10:57:19 pm

O/T, but I thought worth posting, following yesterday's discussion about religion.

FWIW, I'm of the "live & let live" belief where religion is concerned. I'm an Episcopalian, and I respect others' rights to believe or not believe, as is right for them. I do wish others would do the same and not denigrate others' beliefs and choices.

That said, I am horrified by what some "Christianists," as Sullivan calls them, do, supposedly in the name of Christ. And I'm very troubled by Dominionism.

Back to my point -- I promise I do have one. :)

I just read this at HuffPo.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/29/terri-roberts-amish-shooting-victims_n_987525.html

As a reminder, there was a horrific mass shooting suicide at an Amish school several years ago, when a young man shot and killed or injured a number of young girls before killing himself.

Part of the story at the time was the compassion shown by the Amish community toward the parents of the shooter. Well, this article shows the journey of his mother, inspired by her own Christian faith.

Sometimes, Christ's teachings inspire good things, and I was grateful for this reminder and thought I'd pass it along.


Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/29/2011 11:06:41 pm

I like what Up wrote:

"I don't see a there, there. To me there is no stronger resemblance than you see in a community with a large subpopulation from one part of the world."

If I rewrote this piece, I would definitely include that idea as a possible explanation. But I would still write the piece. There is a resemblance, and the Palins' pathological hatred of Wooten is still remarkable. I truly want to get the intelligent feedback from the many thoughtful readers of this block as to what may be going on. And you all have rewarded me with extremely insightful comments. I suppose there is a good chance I'll be writing a history of all this some day.

Reply
Emily Pollifax
9/29/2011 11:18:40 pm

I had heard the rumor that Sarah had slept with Molly's first husband and pissed Molly off. I had always thought that Molly had returned the favor and got pregnant and was the mother of Trig. In steps Sarah to protect the fact her husband has fathered a child with her sister and adopts Trig.

Reply
Lilly Pop
9/29/2011 11:31:59 pm

I think trying to compare Trig to so many different people only makes the argument that he was a random adopted baby stronger.

Reply
Lilly Pop
9/29/2011 11:36:11 pm

Emily P,

there are lots of rumors out there. Most are false.

Think to yourself what KIND of person creates a false story just to hurt others. Think about the people who told Joe horrible lies about Sarah's parents and extended family. Think of the jealous classmates who regularly lie about her. Yes they exist. There are a number of jealous school chums who didn't really know Sarah or her family blabbing BS.

This is where it's imperative that you tap into your human decency zone and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Reply
AKclimber
9/29/2011 11:38:47 pm

B - I'm not sure if Molly married the PI or when that would have been. I do know she's currently seeing someone. I believe it's a new thing. I also know her first Ex hangs around frequently.

Reply
Diane
9/29/2011 11:42:49 pm

I questioned weather Trig was Molly's baby early on.
It was the only thing in my mind that made sense as to why they went after Wooten so viciously.
It served two purposes, to keep him away from his pregnant ex wife and to settle their need to get back at a man who hurt a family member.

Reply
Mmmmmmbop
9/29/2011 11:44:27 pm

No children are being held hostage. Technically, we don't know what made Bristol turn on Levi back in early 09 (when it happened). We don't know what she was feeling last year when she thought shed give him another chance, especially considering how much she hated him that spring.

But Wooten's children are different. He sees them. The two situations aren't comparable. Wooten actually has legitimate strikes against him. That situation has matured.

The other involves to "teenagers" who never had a stable relationship. Of course there are issues.

Reply
GypsyGirl
9/29/2011 11:50:58 pm

Can't say for sure who that little boy in the above pix with Sarah, actually looks like, but is he the same child in this recent photo with Tripp?

The child above has medium tone brown hair and the child standing next to Tripp has dark brown hair & huge big brown eyes.
http://shesnohockeymom.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html

Reply
Olivia
9/30/2011 12:04:35 am

@Lily Pop

"Never hurts to rumormonger."
— Sarah Palin, in an email musing on ways to prevent Alaska Senate President Lyda Green from being re-elected.

Why don't you tell us all the details about the horrible lies? You never elaborate.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 12:17:12 am

Emily and Lily Pop: That's another point for sticking with exposing the BabyHoax, and only with that: we don't have to get into whether each and every thing that McG had documented quotes for is true. We don't have to get into SP's whole life, about which I feel I know far too much already. Far more than I need to know in order to be sure she is not fit for office AND perp'ed the giant hoax on voters.

Reply
Viola-Alex
9/30/2011 12:21:12 am

Ivyfree, we're of the same mind. The Palins were angry enough at Wooten to persecute him but not angry enough to make him disappear. Had he impregnated MY daughter, I would have chased him down with a pitchfork and gun.

However, if he by some means ended up knowing something, pressure might remind him how vulnerable he was.

I don't remember the date of the Wooten affair. But he was a trooper. Troopers would have known lots of dark things about the Palins, no?



Reply
10catsinMD
9/30/2011 12:31:28 am

Hi folks. My first time commenting here. Interesting discussion.

Just want to comment about the ears. Mine do not look at all like my mother or father's. They seem way too big for head, but since they are close to my head, they don't really stick out like my brother's.

Lo and behold, a few years ago as I was gathering family pics I found one of a profile of my grandmother. Her ears are exactly like mine! Close to the head, so they don't stand out to be very noticeable in front pics. But shape and size are exact.

I come from a large family, and I have noticed various resemblences amongst us. How relevant this is to this story, I don't know. But certain traits do follow through families.

I photographed a cousin recently that most of my family had not seen in years. When I showed the pic around, older family members were a bit surprised and commented that he looked exactly like grandpa xxx, who is someone most of us younger ones never met as he passed when we were all very young. So,I am a believer that family traits do get passed on, no matter what. Sometimes they surprise you as a child grows or gets older and looks mature.

Carry on!

Reply
Sharing an appetizer at Applebee's
9/30/2011 12:43:54 am

APPLEBEE'S

2 FOR $20*
For just $20, you and a friend get a mouthwatering appetizer to share, and an entree all your own – invite somebody to 2 for $20 today.


FIRST, PICK AN APPETIZER TO SHARE

Crunchy Onion Rings
Thick-cut rings coated in bread crumbs and golden fried.

Spinach & Artichoke Dip
Creamy spinach, artichokes and melted cheeses with lime salsa and tortilla chips for dipping.

Mozzarella Sticks
Golden fried and served with a tasty marinara sauce.

Boneless Wings
Lightly breaded boneless chicken with your choice of sauce.

Queso Blanco
Spicy white queso with tortilla chips.

THEN, PICK 2 FULL SIZE ENTREES TO ENJOY

Bruschetta Chicken
Grilled chicken breast seasoned with bruschetta, parsley and a blend of Italian cheeses.

Chicken Fettuccine Carbonara
Chicken breast served over a fettuccine with our creamy carbonara sauce.

7 oz. House Sirloin
With your choice of garlic mashed potatoes or baked potato.

Oriental Chicken Salad
Chicken and Asian greens tossed with almonds in Oriental vinaigrette.

Three-Cheese Chicken Penne
Mozzarella, provolone and Parmesan on penne pasta mixed with chicken, bruschetta and Alfredo sauce.

Chicken Tenders Basket
Served with fries and cole slaw.

Fiesta Lime Chicken®
Topped with Mexi-ranch dressing and Jack-cheddar cheese.


Pricing and item availability may vary. Please check with your local Applebee's.
BEVERAGES NOT INCLUDED IN 2 FOR $20 PRICE.

Reply
GhostbusterTX
9/30/2011 12:57:09 am

To paraphrase Paul Simon: a man sees what he wants to see, and disregards the rest.

Slate recently revisited the late great Spy Magazine "Separated at Birth" feature:
http://www.slate.com/slideshows/arts/still-separated-at-birth.html#slide_1

So yes, Ottoline et alia, what you guys said, x10.

Reply
Ivyfree
9/30/2011 12:59:59 am

" I suppose there is a good chance I'll be writing a history of all this some day."

Professor Scharlott, I would definitely buy your book. This is family drama writ large, and it's reflected in the country as a whole. My side, and their side- but huge numbers of people have taken sides.

And we are seeing Sarah beginning to lose it. I suppose you could say that it's due to entropy increasing and systems breaking down. But she isn't mentally resilient enough to carry on indefinitely, and I don't think she's smart enough to seek professional help.

I still hope for a huge, screaming all-American breakdown on a stage in front of cameras. And you know, it could happen.

Reply
Ivyfree
9/30/2011 01:08:09 am

"Part of the story at the time was the compassion shown by the Amish community toward the parents of the shooter...
Sometimes, Christ's teachings inspire good things...

Would just like to suggest that you Google "Amish" and "Sexual Abuse." The Amish, like Alaskans, are a community apart. So are the FLDS. Sometimes that just makes things worse.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 01:09:49 am

I don't remember or care who first brought up "sad story," but that idea was confirmed by Gryphen at IM (if I recall correctly), so I tend to believe it, because I'm betting he probably has a better bead on the whole story than any of the rest of us.

And how could it not be a v sad, bad, degenerate, dysfunctional, deceptive, pain-for-a-lifetime sort of story? Pairing our intuitions with the facts available to us, we know that we would not like to be living any part of this story. That's why I wish we would stay out of it at this point, when we are so close to getting confirmation of
the BabyHoax.

The major impediment to discussion of the BabyHoax seems more than ever to be a MSM blackout, as evidenced by:
-- the good reviews of McG's book coming from abroad, the bad reviews from the U.S., with only a few exceptions;
-- the "disappearing" of the Behar/McG video (and its re-editing into a short pro-Right version);
-- NPR's refusal to interview McG for fear of losing federal funding;
-- the puzzling refusal of Olbermann and Maddow to comment on this story.

This major impediment will only be aided by us bloggers going off into the foggy tulies of speculation when we have no more proof than "looks like." The animosity toward Wooten is not proof of any one thing, as far as we know at present.

Last, identifying the bioParentage and other facts of this story, insofar as that is even ever possible, does not change it: it is still the hoax, and the hoax alone, that concerns us as voters. The hoax and what it was intended to symbolize, and what it has ended up symbolizing.

(I don't mean to ignore the various other gates like HouseGate, DairyGate, AKFundGate, -- you all know them all by heart. I'm not focusing on those simply because I don't think they will ever be investigated or proved.)

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 01:13:24 am

Thank you, "@Sharing an app. . ." -- we needed that. :-)

Reply
Viola-Alex
9/30/2011 01:27:32 am

Prof Brad, So good to hear that this is a story you'll write someday. I hope when you do, you'll include the phenomenon of the bloggers, commenters who wouldn't let go.

IMO, it is a new form of democracy-- as well as journalism. Not just the blogs, but the community of "locals" under them.

How often I've heard the refrain of Let's Follow ANY and ALL ideas because we don't know where they'll lead or what they'll force to the surface. Where else does that intellectual freedom and scientific method still exist?

Reply
Dangerous
9/30/2011 01:40:40 am

I'm all for thinking outside the box and trying to establish connections among the facts, even if they are ephemeral, such as a perceived "resemblance" between a man and a small child. I don't happen to agree with that opinion, and it doesn't make any sense except as an explanation of the hatred the Palin had for Wooten, but it doesn't seem to have any logical or even irrational connection to Trig.

Theories have to make sense in every way or you can discard them. Which brings me to the theory described by Joe M. on CTV regarding McCain floating the notion of VP to Palin, in order to support his right flank, and Palin -- upon learning of this possibility -- decides unilaterally that faking giving birth to a DS infant would improve her VP chances. I think I've stated that theory correctly, in brief.

The problem with this theory and other long shot ones is that they are more farfetched than a faked pregnancy at all. The appeal of the fake-for-vp-spot theory is that virtually any woman could be Trig's mother. It doesn't have to be a Palin woman. That's good in opening the door to myriad possibilities to explain the wild ride, the calendar problems with Tripp's birth, and so on.

The MAJOR downside is this: NOBODY RISKS GETTING CAUGHT ON A FAKED PREGNANCY THAT PRODUCES A CHILD TO GAIN SOMETHING!! Quite simply, if the ruse fails the faker loses everything. Hence, they have to or want to keep the baby AND they have to face a really, really, big scandalous downside if the infant's real mother were identified. Otherwise, they hide the real mother and put the baby up for adoption. Or quietly abort.

Now, Sarah's present and future political interests clearly played a role in her decision to fake. It's more likely that the notion that she could be a national candidate in 2008 or later would be damaged if the truth of that infant's mother were discovered. If the ruse worked and she received political credit for having delivered a DS infant, that could sweeten the deal and enhance her motive. But that's clearly not enough motive to risk the ruse, and DEFINITELY not enough motive for Dr. CBJ to go along with it. Sarah was already something of a darling of the GOP Right. She didn't need to enhance her bona fides with a DS infant at the risk of exposure of fraud. McCain could pick her because (a) she was a strong family values "hockey mom", (b) a social conservative, (c) a surprise pick, and (d) stunning. That was more than enough for McCain to select her over Tim Pawlenty. I think (d) was the overriding reason, and Sarah certainly would have known or suspected this before.

Therefore, I reject the political- advantage motive for faking, and similarly reject any theory that doesn't align the motives for everyone who would have knowledge of the infant's real mother to keep it secret. Otherwise, the ruse could not work and the participants who would consider trying it would know it.

So, for example, Todd as father of Trig from an affair makes no sense. If the Palins wanted to keep that infant -- unlikely under any family dynamic I can think of -- they would simply claim to have adopted him. Otherwise, the infant is put up for adoption. Sarah has no motive to risk faking.

Fake to cover for Bristol? Perhaps. There's an arugment to be made and Levi may not even know the truth. (Can someone confirm that Levi was even around the Palins during late 2007 and early 2008? And if so, did anyone else see Bristol with or without Levi during that period? I thought she was incognito!!)

Fake to cover for Willow? Definitely enough motive there, especially (but not necessarily) if the particulars were ugly.

Let's encourage the AK sleuths and bloggers to nail down the Palin daughters' whereabouts during the critical period. If either or both have alibis, we can start to consider more bizarre explanations for the seemingly obvious fact of a faked pregnancy.

Reply
Mrs Gunka
9/30/2011 01:44:49 am

For what it is worth. Had my 50 year old son take a look at the pictures last night. Yes, he knows about the Palins. He's listened to me talk about the blogs for 3 years, but has never payed much attention to the details..usually what he saw was on the TV.

After dinner, I asked him to come and look at these pictures. I asked if he noticed any resemblance in them. After he studied the top ones, I scrolled down to the frontal pictures. Then back up to the top. He said the ears were almost like a mirror image but due to the age difference you could see where they would both be the same when the baby grew up. Then back down to the frontal's.

I covered the eyebrows and and he said "WOW!" Chin, mouth and NOSE were just alike! Do look closer to the nose! The pointed tip and nostrils are identical. The mouth and teeth, YES! The chin was the biggest likeness.

To get a fresh-eye response, ask your spouse or neighbor to look and see what they say. Yes, Trig has the bone structure of a DS baby...slanted eyes,protruding bottom lip and thick neck that are visible, but he also looks like himself too from the genes of those that created him. No one would doubt that he has Down Syndrome.

However, if my blond, thin son would carry him down the street no one would ever think he was his son. If Wooten carried that baby down the street no one would ever think he wasn't his baby by looking at their faces!

I never saw Levi in him all this time, but knew he reminded me of someone. When I scrolled down and saw the two pictures on top, my jaw dropped! Yes! That was who it was. I have only seen a couple of pictures of Wooten so I had an imprint of him in my brain...that close up really unlocked his looks in my brain. I would like to think this is not true, but it is hard to not see the resemblance! If they were animated and talking to each other and watch their facial expressions it may be difficult because of the age difference, but they may both have the same facial expressions we can't see in a still picture. Cover the eyebrows and it's more easy to see the resemblance.

I used to do pencil portraits and I've studied faces all my life so maybe I see things (structures) more finite that many people, but I say there is a real similarity.

The decency in me wants to think it isn't true, but my eyes say it is. Something appears to be rotten in Denmark!

Reply
NSG
9/30/2011 01:53:35 am

Wow, Ivyfree.

For the record, I'm aware that there are lots of questions about the Amish community treatment of their children. I don't think that by pointing out one instance of profound compassion among a subset, I in any way attempted to absolve all members of a religious group.

But it sounds like you sure want to sit in judgment of others as a whole, without considering individual actions and differences.

I was impressed by the story of the shooter's mother's compassion, and that's what I was trying to share. As so many of us on these blogs seem bewildered by the Palins and their followers' bullying and cruelty, I thought it was helpful, in the context of yesterday's discussion, to acknowledge a different approach.

Kindness and compassion. Yep, it seems more rare than ever.





Reply
Laura Novak link
9/30/2011 02:08:49 am

No, I am not Brad's "west coast friend." I suspect he knows more than just me out here.

Great points, everyone. Much food for thought. Blue Dog AK, I am going to read that background information. I'd like to know more about their vendetta against this man. It's simply to odd on the surface.

Two housekeeping things: if you paste a really long URL into this box, it will throw off the comments into the margins. And I have to comb through a lot of stuff to find the offending link. Please make a Tiny URL or bit-ly out of the link first. THanks!

Don't feed THE TROLL.

Brad, I can't think of a better person to write the history of this story. I'll be in line to buy it.

Reply
Viola-Alex
9/30/2011 02:14:45 am

Dangerous, I hate to agree with you, but I do.

To add to your essay:

1. Sarah is lazy. Whatever she did, it was done with as little effort or foresight as possible.

2. Sarah is selfish. Whatever she did, it was done to benefit her and her alone. She would never rescue her sister, husband or child without benefiting herself.

3. Sarah is impulsive. Whatever she did, it was done suddenly and without deep thinking or planning.

4. Sarah is a loner. Whatever she did, she didn't do because someone told her so or that it was a good idea.

5. Sarah is shallow. Whatever she did, she MIGHT do it because she saw someone else do it (Ivana Trump worship) and thought it was cool. I'm thinking of that other Fundie Darling, the mom of the DS baby that Sarah palled with once or twice. Sarah might want to her.

6. Sarah is amoral. She could convince CBJ to play along for one reason (a lie) when it was really for another.

7. Sarah is a huckster. She dodges issues by waving shiny objects. Trig was a great shiny object.

8. Sarah is mentally unstable and/or self-medicated. If she had spent half the effort governing she did setting up intrigues, she might have made something of her political career.

Reply
Lou in London
9/30/2011 02:19:25 am

The latest from MeAgain/anon238


‪Anonymous‬ said...
"Brad's reward" = the $10,000 he is offering for anyone who can provide legitimate, authenticated proof of Sarah having given birth to Trig on 4-18-2008. 

Sarah desperately wants to take another roll in the "waaaaah I'm such a vic-tiiiiiim" hay by saying that the "attacks" against her have gotten so bad, people are even trying to "make money" off her "special needs baby". 

Forget about the fact that the "baby" is a near five year old, nobody has or will ever claim that reward money. 

Sarah's lawyer and her handlers (excuse me Bristol, her "advisors") have explicitly told her not to mention Trig at ALL--they say it will only remind people how long he's been out of sight. 

I certainly wouldn't put it past Sarah to "Go Rogue", though...after all, it's worked SO WELL for her thus far. 


-MeAgain
5:15 AM


‪Anonymous‬ said...
Calm down, I mean almost FOUR, not five. An honest mistake, not an unwitting bombshell. 

Either way...four OR five...is not an infant! I think she's keeping the "baby" meme going because she fancies herself as being in the same crowd with the younger "MILF" types. 



-MeAgain
7:08 AM

‪Anonymous‬ said...
Anonymous (yeah, right) at 6:38,

Well if it's such "bullshit", why don't you show me something in YOUR bag of tricks to prove me wrong?

Even for Trig's birthday this year, Sarah recycled the same photo from his birthday LAST YEAR. And it was not even a family snapshot--but a TLC promo. 

If you use the same photo to mark a child's second AND third birthdays...people don't need ME to infer that this is a "mother" who obviously sees very little of her child. 

Go ahead, spin your happy stories about how the Palins are so close and the kids visit!!!! so it must be true (not like they'd come home just to get their hush money, I mean that is just impolite) and all the kids love and COO at Trig!

Except you'll never prove it. The best you'll be able to do is a one off photo shoot and based on how Trig reacts to the people who ABANDONED him...it'll have to be while he's asleep. Keep calling bullshit, thought. Right now it's been months since Trig has been seen in public. When a little more time passes...the right people might start asking where he is. 



-MeAgain
7:17 AM

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 02:31:21 am

Ottoline: As always, you are articulate and very logical in making the case for not speculating in the bio-parentage. There are tradeoffs. The historian in me wants the facts. Your tactical considerations regarding MSM are also well-founded. I guess I've become more aggressive lately.

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 02:45:36 am

Laura is not my "friend" in this saga. Wrong state.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 03:06:12 am

Sorry, Laura -- I was the offender in putting a giant url in: it was my "dogs rememble their owners" link to some funny Goog pix. I didn't know it would do that, and I'll use tinyurl henceforth.

Brad: I applaud your "becom[ing] more aggressive lately." Just when I'm becoming more tired of it all. Good tag team tactic. So at some point, could you please summarize what we have here, besides "looks like"? I don't see that we have much; I must be missing something.

Reply
NSG
9/30/2011 03:07:02 am

Andrew Sullivan's "Ask Andrew" video today is "Does Palin Still Have a Shot?"

http://tinyurl.com/3noc9jd

(It's my first tinyurl -- fingers crossed!)

My only quibble is that he believes that if she doesn't run, we won't have to deal with her anymore. (He's written that before, alludes to it here.) That, IMO, is naive & wishful thinking.

The Palin Problem requires a more meaningful analysis and response on a broader scale which will require the MSM to get on board. They'll have to be part of rejecting her, and they SHOULD acknowledge that she wasn't properly vetted in the first place. (Thereby implicating themselves, of course.)

A girl can hope, anyway....

Reply
ja.thought
9/30/2011 03:31:20 am

Someone in an earlier comment gave this link to the timeline for Troopergate:

http://apocalyptickiwi.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/palin-vs-wooten/

I don't think the timeline supports an extra vendetta against Wooten during the time frame of a real pregnancy for Trig. I just clipped items I thought were most relevant.
-------------------

April 2005. Molly filed for restraining order and divorce.

Fall 2005. Nasty divorce trial. Quote from the judge: “It appears for the world that Ms. McCann and her family have decided to take off for the guy’s livelihood — that the bitterness of whatever who did what to whom has overridden good judgment."

Jan 31, 2006. Divorce granted Jan 31, 2006.

March 1, 2006. Grimes issues 10-day suspension for Wooten (later reduced to 5).

Dec 2006. Palin took office and appointed Monegan.

Jan 2006. Monegan met with Todd. “There was no new evidence, and I called [Todd Palin] back and told him it was a closed case,” Monegan says. “He wasn’t happy to hear that. I got a subsequent phone call from the governor about it, and she wasn’t happy, either.”Pal

[PLEASE NOTE: Todd and Sarah went after Wooten in Jan 2006 which was soon as Sarah was in a position to do more damage to Wooten.]

Spring - Fall 2007. Washington Post: "Monegan said Palin mostly backed off, but kept raising the matter indirectly through e-mails. In the fall of 2007, Monegan said he alerted her to a bad jury verdict against a trooper in rural Alaska, and she replied by mentioning Wooten, but not by name."

[PLEASE NOTE: This would have been the timeframe for Trig impregnation. It seems a rather mild time compared to the vindictive battle before spring 2007. ]

Nov 2007. Custody battle starts for Wooten's children.

Feb 2008. Frank Bailey in call to state troopers: “Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, why on Earth hasn’t — why is this guy still representing the department?”

July 11, 2008. Monegan fired

July 19, 2008. Monegan states that he had been pressured to fire Wooten and that he believes this led to his dismissal.

[I don't see signs of an huge increase in attack power following the time when a real Trig pregnancy would have occurred. All of this sounds like a continuation of their original vendetta against Wooten which was very ugly during the divorce proceedings. ]

---------------------

I also think that Wooten would have been beaten to an inch of his life if he had gotten a Palin daughter or underage relative pregnant.

---------------------

I'm sure Wooten knows a ton of details about the Palins, and likely including Todd's alleged involvement with sex trafficking.

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 04:06:51 am

JA: You make a good case. I'm willing to concede that the idea that Wooten is Trig's bio-father is more unlikely than likely. We're still left with the Palins' almost irrational campaign against Wooten - again, if he loses his job, he would have big trouble with child support. So there is something else under the surface than just vengence, I think. But what? Is it that as a law enforcement official, Wooten is a threat to Todd for some activity of dubious legality?

Reply
Lou in London
9/30/2011 04:28:58 am

Hi Brad, have you thought of interviewing Shailey Tripp?

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 04:35:10 am

That's a good idea. I'm behind in my real-world work. I'm tired. I want to write something longish for Laura about a Babygate narrative that makes sense to me. I need to exercise because I'm getting fat. My car needs attention.

So, yeah, I'll put that on the list. Thanks, Lou.

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 04:37:18 am

Oh, and I have to update the reward poster with a new grad total!

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 04:55:32 am

Dangerous, I agree with you that SP did not engineer the hoax primarily or initially for the politics. Too much trouble, too risky, and she would be saddled forevermore with the child. No, this is not a reasonable scenario.

My theory is she was confronted with something so impossible to explain or spin to her local community (the Event) that she felt she would be better off risking a hoax and its potential for discovery than going with the reality of the impossible Event. In other words, the Event was such that it would wreck her credibility to continue living/working in Wasilla and AK. Either way (hoax is discovered OR confess re the Event) she was cooked, so the hoax seemed the better option.

And of course nationally it became a political asset, but in early 2008 (perhaps late 2007) when SP learned of the Event, it was for sure about her community reputation, because she was only a long shot for the VP pick at that point. So she developed a plan (the hoax), which would surely have remained officially undetected (even if whispered about) if SP had stayed in AK, as Governor or in whatever later capacity.

Once SP knew she could not go with the truth of the Event, SP had to continue to risk it once McCain was picked, because it was clear that, if the Event was exposed now, she was finished; and yet if unexposed, the hoax would work really well for the national scene, too. Not only enhancing her cred (a huge side benefit), but also doing the essential job of concealing the Event that would otherwise sink her on every front -- in the national scene as well as in her local scene.

I think it must be in this time frame (early 2008) that SP talked about this pregnancy with the Dominionists, the pundits, the McCain operatives -- but not telling them she was going to do a hoax. I'd say it's unlikely she would have told them that.* I'm thinking more along the lines of her saying "I'm a few months pregnant with a DS child (or with a normal child), and I sure hope this won't get in the way of your considering me for the VP pick," knowing she could have a "miscarriage" of her pretend pregnancy at any point if that seemed better all around.

The Event could have been any of a number of things: a normal unmarried teen pregnancy (which seemed way worse than Bristol's Tripp pregnancy, because it was the first); a DS pregnancy by anyone close enough to SP that it would make SP look bad to abandon the baby; Todd's baby by someone else; a DS baby in her immed family by a Mom who could not insure the baby as well as SP could; a baby by a hugely inappropriate bioDad (any number of possibilities, given the apparent family culture of Wasilla); a baby conceived in some kind of unacceptable circumstances, like substance use; a FAS baby, who died but by then the hoax was in progress so had to be continued; a biracial baby, who died, but the hoax had to go forward; or a too-young mother -- Bristol at 15? Willow even younger? It has to be some Event that is viewed as so reputation-damaging that it is worse than the risk of being discovered in a hoax. Not many families have as their Family Practitioner a specialist in underage sexual abuse, so one's thoughts always turn to wondering how, or if, that fact plays a role.

Some of these candidates for the Event seem more likely than others, or the Event could be something completely different. It doesn't really matter what the Event was. It still resulted in a hoax by a politician who used a disabled child to perp a hoax hoping to improve her chances in a presidential election.

We can also guess that the logistics did not go so very smoothly. It was hard to remain consistent in the wearing of the fake belly and keeping the size credible; the church fire destroying records points to some snafu there; the Dar arson and the Menard plane crash raise other suspicions; the swapping in and out of Ruffles points to a mistake of some kind; the massage by Shailey and box checked "not pregnant" is another oddity, as are the two Tripp names; the silence of CBJ points to another huge loose end; the demand for a medical letter did not stop, so the oddly-timed letter with all its irregularities was released after the last work day preceding the election; the giant-bellied Gusty photo op shows an attempt at damage prevention or control, and I've probably forgotten others.

So that's my theory of how the hoax was motivated and initiated, although of course it's not proof, only speculation.

_________
*I immed thought of this when I read in an early Sept Doonesbury that the reporter character asks his boss (Ailes?) if it's a problem that there's a hoax involved here, and the boss answers "Not unless I know about it." That must surely have been, and remains, the stance of SP's enablers.

Reply
Viola-Alex
9/30/2011 04:57:51 am

"And this fits in perfectly with my theory that Bristol and Levi are the biological parents of Trig, who was born exceptionally prematurely, in poor health and with the possibility of multiple disabilities, and with previously undiagnosed Down Syndrome. Sarah declares her pregnancy, 'steals' their baby, telling them that they cannot afford the care of this child, and Bristol, reeling from the loss of this child, immediately gets herself knocked up again. Because there was no formal adoption, Levi and Bristol are still legally responsible for this child, so they are being blackmailed to keep their mouths shut, lest they actually have to pay for Trig's care and medical bills." (H/T to Anon from IM's current post)

This is my current favorite theory. Two things I'd add: Ruffles was the stand-in baby for closeups for a few months. Levi may not be Trig's father but could believe he is.

This scenario fits Sarah's personality profile to a T. She did it for money, politics, and did it sloppily. It also fits G's meme that the story is "sad."

Can't wait for Palinoia's Pt 2. Insurance = Money. And to hear your theory, Brad.

Reply
anonfornow
9/30/2011 05:05:19 am

Studies have shown people tend to be sexually attracted to people who look like them. It's biologically adaptive for reasons I won't go into here. But my point is, it's not surprising that Molly's husband would look like Trig's dad, simply because Molly would be attracted to men who very likely look a bit like men Bristol is attracted to.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 05:06:31 am

Brad, you said "Is it that as a law enforcement official, Wooten is a threat to Todd for some activity of dubious legality?"

IMHO: of course! Via professional gossip, Wooten undoubtedly knows as much as is "common knowledge" among the police (which would be a lot, judging by their quick jump to write the letter clearing Todd of "prostitution ring" guilt, when "ring" had not yet really been mentioned by anyone else). Any police pal who had a juicy story incriminating the Palins would have a lot of fun telling Wooten. Human nature, no? And we have little doubt that there is a ton of illegal activity to be gossiped about.

Reply
Stix Nix Trig's Pics
9/30/2011 05:15:45 am

This is O/T from the OP so don't get PO'd ... OK ?

Laura: totally love ya for whatever magic you weave that makes your blog and comment forum THE most consistently intelligent, informative and civil of all the anti-Palin blogs.

Y'all: totally appreciate, support and respect that you're engaged in the Trig photo analysis.

Me: more in league with those who, for whatever reasons, aren't into doing the pix mix. But that's neither dig, boo-hiss or phooey ... just an intro for some suggestions of other kinds of analytical efforts this august body might find equally, if not more fact-based, revealing and germaine to exposing the truth about Trig -- and which (I'm pretty sure) have been explored far less, if at all.

Some are down-to-earth, others are pie-in-the-sky, but all were inspired by the several comments that ya never know where corroborative evidence or "Aha!" inspiration might come from.

#1 - Is there a Palin-hatin' handwriting analyst in the house ? (chirp) I'm dying for one to donate his/her services and analyze the scrawl of the few Palins who've actually achieved literacy.

For example, this morning I stumbled on a handwriting analysis which was pretty lame except for its lone comment based on the grisly Mama's paw-prin -- I mean signature (spelling and punctuation original):

"as a student of handwriting analysis i can say a couple of things... the superlarge s and p are overscale because sarah is looking for attention, has a grandiose attitude, wants to present herself to the public...the s is shaped like a snake, and the p has a dagger shaped lower loop, so i would say she is quick tempered and vindictive (to the max.) and especially jealous of sexual relationships. the s hooks back to the left, that's hiding something. both names end illegibly so there is an effort to deceive, which is also shown in the open looped a which is covered over, which shows an effort to cover the deceit. the joined up names show a need to have everything preplanned, there is no desire or ability to 'wing it.' Not a quick thinker."

The final paragraph was the kicker:

"i'm writing this on the evening ms palin's 'target' on her 'hit list" was shot, so i'd have to say the personality shown through her handwriting and has continued to show itself (unfortunately) in life as well "

#2 - a professional personality profiler (ideally a cop) donating as many Palin family profiles as possible.

Near the end of WW II, a personality profile was compiled on Hitler and it was -- and still is -- amazing ! Despite very little first-hand knowledge of the subject, it was SO accurate that it predicted not only <i>der Fuehrer's</I> suicide, but even that a gun would be involved.

(Disclaimer: I do not wish violence upon any of the Palins ... even though they seem to foment violence toward others as casually as normal families play "Count the Volkswagons" on long car rides.)

#'s 3 & 4 - yeah, these are "out there" but might yield as many clues (and surely more yuks) as pictorial ear-matching: more time-donating pros doing astrological charts and/or numerology reports for the stars of "As the Trig-Truth Turns."

Ooops, gotta run ... Nurse Ratched just announced that it's "meds time."

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 05:19:24 am

Ottoline: Brilliant analysis.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 05:45:23 am

Back to basics because I forget. Are there anywhere in the public emails or in SP's schedule mention of appts. with an ob/gyn? I know that this has been covered. I just don't remember. Since evryone in AK, her staff, media and allies included, were apparently stunned that SP was pregnant, suddenly at seven months, there has to be a record of her seeing a physician. Does that exist? If it doesn't, why, and how can anyone establish any veracity in her claim to be pregnant. You can't not see a doctor, any doctor, for seven months if you're pregnant.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 06:26:28 am

Brad: You are too kind. Thank you.

Tom: No known ob/gyn appointments. And more tellingly, no perinatologist appts -- the MD specialty for high-risk pregnancies. And no MDs mentioned in connection with the delivery, not even CBJ.

Reply
curiouser
9/30/2011 06:28:04 am

Tom - I don't see how we can use Sarah's schedule as evidence to rule out doctor appointments. She was the kind of boss who didn't feel the need to be held accountable for her time to her staff. Her calendar does have some entries which have been blacked out as personal but there are also hours-and-hours-and-hours of blank spaces where she could have been anywhere.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 06:50:18 am

@Curioser

Maybe you can dismiss that no one had knowledge of SP doctor's visits. I can't. Did she see a dentist in that time period? Was the appt. recorded? This is the governor of the state. You mean she just showed up and no one took notice or mentioned it? If she went to a doctor for anything someone besides the doctor knows she was there.

You know, with all this empathy/sympathy for Levi I'm beginning to wonder. Here's a kid who apparently has no interest in school, wants to hunt and fish for fun when he's not getting laid. This is where I think some get lost. I know wgere I'm from and I know the mentality of some types of people. They're not bad people at all, just somewhat ignorant to proper parenting, schooling, needs and so on. Yet this kid and BP hoodwinked enough people to earn a small fortune for little more than f*****g. Nice gig. There may not be a GED between the two of them and here we are speculating as to their behavior, when they copulated, who looks like them, whose ears for chrissakes looks like someone else's ears. Really. I'm sick of myself.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 07:03:50 am

If SP's pregnancy with Trig had been real, she could easily have asked her MDs to say so. No birth cert needed then.

Re Levi and Bristol: forget about them. They are not the VP candidate who hoaxed a nation. They are not important, unless you want to begrudge them the money they made. I think that's irrelevant, as are they. What counts is the actual perp of this hoax and her betters, who enabled, funded, and prevented any reporting on her. And those fat cats will do something equally vile next time, in 10 minutes, probably with a more talented candidate than SP turned out to be, overall. But the blackout is still in place for MSM addressing the BabyHoax, and the Kochs/Murdochs are still eager to get richer at our expense, and the GOP is still eager to foil Pres Obama's efforts -- that's what we should aim our brains at, not these two unfortunate, insignificant kids.

Reply
Mhurka
9/30/2011 07:08:50 am

Mrs. Gunka-Very well stated. When a person ages the one physical feature that I've noticed that doesn't really change is the facial expression. (It could have been that feature,perhaps, that reminded you of Wooten.)
Also, in both photos, the lower lip is slightly curved downward. That is the first thing I noticed because on my father's side everyone has that feature including distant relatives-probably is a strongly dominant gene. Just sayin'.

Reply
Up
9/30/2011 07:26:34 am

@Dangerous said, "The problem with this theory and other long shot ones is that they are more farfetched than a faked pregnancy at all. The appeal of the fake-for-vp-spot theory is that virtually any woman could be Trig's mother. It doesn't have to be a Palin woman. That's good in opening the door to myriad possibilities to explain the wild ride, the calendar problems with Tripp's birth, and so on.

The MAJOR downside is this: NOBODY RISKS GETTING CAUGHT ON A FAKED PREGNANCY THAT PRODUCES A CHILD TO GAIN SOMETHING!! "

But you are thinking as a rational person. I don't believe she is that person. She views the world very differently than you or I.

Based upon what I've read and observed, she is a spoiled child used to getting her way. The people who disagree with her seem to tend to stay out of her way. Challenging her and risking her rage just isn't worth the trouble. In Boston there's a saying about baseball player Manny Rodgiguez, known for being a spoiled manchild, "Just Manny being Manny." In AK, that would translate to "Just Sarah being Sarah."

So if you are a spoiled child, don't think about the long term consequences (see: "title of governor" versus "fulfilling the responsbilities of governor"), and you believe you are God's Chosen One... you just plow right ahead.

And this is obvious in the way it went down... scarves, pillows, extra sweaters and cheap windbreakers. Or as Todd said, looking "like a hobo." Someone thinking rationally would at least have purchased the empathy belly before announcing. Since God somehow dropped this child, perfect for giving her undoubtable street cred, in her lap, then God surely wouldn't let anyone question her story. And no one did, probably because all the nice rational people thought to themselves "She's covering for her daughter."

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 07:44:51 am

@Ottoline--

I agree. I think the key to exposing the freak show is in the basics. As it is no one wnats to pay any attenetion to the Trig hoax. Joe presented it with aprogression of details and events. He makes a case, opensa some eyes, maybe. That's why the looks- like/ears thing is fraustrating to me beyond my impatience with chit chat.

Reply
Ivyfree
9/30/2011 08:05:41 am

NSG: "But it sounds like you sure want to sit in judgment of others as a whole, without considering individual actions and differences."

Actually, that was what I was thinking of you.

I've found that people usually tend to be people. Most of them fairly decent one-on-one; some of them really creeps. But there is an overriding meme in our culture that Christian is Nice. Christians tend to get a huge pass and that is one reason Sarah gets by with so much: there are a lot of people thinking that she's Christian. There are also a lot of people thinking that they should give others the benefit of the doubt. I've found that when I give somebody else the benefit of the doubt, I'm usually incorrect.... the worst assumption is probably the accurate one.

In the case of the Amish, child sexual abuse is an issue that is difficult to address because it is a culture that keeps itself apart. As with FLDS. And Alaskans, who are kept apart by geography. I was thinking that isolation is not healthy for societies. Left alone, the canker grows.

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 08:05:58 am

@ Otto - "What counts is the actual perp of this hoax and her betters, who enabled, funded, and prevented any reporting on her. And those fat cats will do something equally vile next time, in 10 minutes, probably with a more talented candidate than SP turned out to be, overall"

Agreed, and that is a great goal. Now, how do you propose going about it? Battle plan in detail?

The more info we can nail down about the hoax on the state level, the more apt we are to be able to break the Spiral of Silence. Nailing down facts about $P is like trying to nail jello to a tree. It can be done, but you must wait till it dries out and shrivels a bit. She IS drying up and shriveling, but not nearly fast enough.

Reply
curiouser
9/30/2011 08:09:54 am

@Tom - My point was that doctor appointments weren't necessarily recorded on Sarah's official calendar or visible to us if they were.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 08:19:27 am

@Curioser--

I kknow. The reason there's no record of it is cause she didn't have any appts. Nobody goes through daily life without mentioning to someone, several people, what they did that day, especially if it involves a pregnancy.

That any person with any sense at all can accept her bullshit "I didn't want to tell anyone " story until sevn months, well I can't bear it. If someone told me they believed that I'd tell that operson to get lost cause they're too stupid to be around (I've already done it once--a woman I've known 40+ years, the person that forwarded that email to me--she had a motive).

Reply
Brad Scharlott
9/30/2011 08:24:51 am

The Babygate narrative that I mentioned wanting to write does not differ from what Ottoline presents above - just adds to that one. So don't expect anything really new from me. But as I wrote to Laura the other night, the pieces finally fit together for me in a way that accounts for the evidence and makes sense. I may have to wait a bit before writing that. I have a history manuscript that I have to clean up for publication – it has to do with the role of business publications in the economic history of Cincinnati. How's that for a change of pace from Babygate?

Reply
Karen
9/30/2011 08:49:39 am

Sounds like you all could use a pick me up over here ;) It looks like MA is working through the weekend. Cheers!

Dominicastar-

Many of the emails were captured by an I-phone. I underestimated the eye-crossing work of transcribing them by hand. The attorney who was consulted about this confirmed something my source had heard and been nervous about--an I-phone photo carries with it an alarming amount of personal data...including the exact longitudinal coordinates where the photo was taken. My source was not comfortable with that information being transmitted via any electronic means.

It's true I overestimated my ability to get through them quicker but I have begun sending them to Gryphen and plan to continue throughout the weekend.

I also admit to a spell of gunshyness when the whole McGinnis email debacle occurred. If the resulting delay personally offends you...well, I can't really even muster up a fake "I'm sorry"...sorry!

As I have said multiple times:

If you think I'm a fake, fraud, and so on...if you think I am "dragging this out" on purpose...if you think I "haven't come up with anything new"...

Then by ALL means--don't waste your precious time going to an obscure post and scrolling through six hundred some odd comments to see what I have to say. Seriously. I don't like what they have to say at C4P so I engineered this really complex avoidance technique-- I DON'T GO THERE.

I have already made clear on numerous occasions...I don't care and have too much going on to use up energy stomping my feet and being offended that I have skeptics.

(see below)
{btw, at this point, below is not up}

Reply
omomma
9/30/2011 09:00:35 am

I like what UP wrote too. Frankly, Wooten more resembles Bristol and Willow. All three show native [First Nation] heritage. People of European heritage are relative newcomers; after a while, everyone's going to look like the original population unless there's a continual heavy influx of Europeans, not just the trickle of "survivalist" types over the past 100 years.

Reply
NSG
9/30/2011 09:04:24 am

Ivyfree, all I can say is that I apparently did a lousy job of expressing myself if that was your takeaway. I found the linked story to be a powerful case of compassion and kindness in truly horrific circumstances, and I thought it worthwhile to share in the context of yesterday's discussion, which I had appreciated but missed out on. I deliberately never evangelize -- personally, I find it offensive if someone does it to me so I don't do it -- and that definitely was not my purpose here.

But given that others had shared their personal views on religion, I ventured out there myself. (Probably won't do that again.) I feel like Palin and others act in ways that are counter to what the record shows as Jesus' message. Love thy neighbor. Feed the poor. Care for the sick. Stuff like that.

And, btw, I approach that message with critical thinking, as I do pretty much everything else. Not saying I always get it right, but I try. :) Furthermore, I've made an effort to explore the messages of other philosophers and religious leaders, and when I find something of value, I try to incorporate it into my life.

One more comment about the people in the story. (Curious if you read it. Regardless of the individiduals' religious beliefs, it's their actions that touched me.) I think part of why I wanted to share that story here is because this community's focus on Palin takes us to many ugly places of bullying, selfishness and cruelty. The actions in the article stood in stark contrast and it struck me as a peaceful departure.

It was reminiscent of my reaction to McGinniss' grebes as a "palate cleanser" in his Palin story -- others had a similar reaction iirc. Anyway, I'm sorry if you heard my personal observations and the article I shared as anything more than a positive and peaceful offering.

Reply
Sunday
9/30/2011 09:16:18 am

If I were Shailey Tripp, and I was telling the truth, I know I'd be extremely frustrated in the lack of attention to my story.

If Todd is guilty of breaking the law -- especially if it is related to organized crime -- then Mrs. Todd stands to lose everything, quickly and forever AND be grilled for all her own misdeeds. I just don't think the pity card would play to her coverups any more.

Prostitution has a long history in Alaska. The movie "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" aside, when I was in Fairbanks the UA museum featured prostitution in a diorama about the success of female entrepreneurs in rough and tumble Gold Rush Alaska. The Pipeline construction years were rough and tumble, too. And now? You tell me.

Law enforcement has a wall of silence. Rotten cops protect other rotten cops -- and civilian players -- in their corruptions. What cops do not tolerate is anyone going after one of their own. Cops protect Todd, Todd protects cops, Todd goes after a cop, Sarah doesn't let them do their job of following her around, and what do we have? Disgruntled cops? Ah, what scenes might play out in THAT atmosphere, especially with Todd at the Governor's helm.


Reply
Ivyfree
9/30/2011 10:49:37 am

"I'd add: Ruffles was the stand-in baby for closeups for a few months."

I wonder: Would Mercede realize this? The picture in the Palins' kitchen was on her facebook.

I have a really hard time getting past that ear deformity. What isn't particularly noticeable in a photo- until it's enlarged, thank heaven for digital photography- would be hugely noticeable in person. If Mercede was there, she'd have to be completely oblivious not to notice- and if she did, why wouldn't she say anything when the RNC baby showed up? I grant you, Bristol doesn't like Mercede, but it wasn't until Tripp appeared on the scene that that Bristol had a way of extorting the behavior she wanted out of her. The kitchen picture was 8 months before that.

I've decided to refer to the Palins as "appearing" instead of being born. I've reached the point where I'm not sure they're born at all: Sarah at least was probably hatched out of an egg laid in warm sand.

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 11:03:00 am

Does anyone have links to younger pics of Wooten? I'm pretty sure he gained a lot of weight after Troopergate.

I think the comparison would be easier without all the fat. I have so far been unable to find any such pics.

Reply
Banyan
9/30/2011 11:05:40 am

Palin did the Trig hoax for purely political reasons. As forthe threat of having a DS child for the rest of her life, Sarah knew then, and demonstrates now, that she would never actually care for Tri-G.

So, why did Sarah participate in this hoax?

Because, she did NOT have "street cred" with Right-to-Life, who, in the race for Lt. Gov. endorsed her opponent (who won the election).

Too many people in Alaska knew about her "white outs" and her promiscuity and sexual transgressions. Try as she might (and her whole career has been about trying to win over the Uber-Right), she did NOT have reliable RTL support going into the VP-stakes.

The existing evidence strongly suggests a complicated plan with long-term planning (by the GOP/Dominionists).

Sarah could NOT have done this on her own, and, in fact, proved to be the weakest link in the hoax, bringing the hoax into question with her carelessness.

Do a web search on Sarah's Lt. Gov campaign and her problems with right-to-life. It's all out there.

Reply
Up
9/30/2011 11:25:03 am

Banyan, why would the Dominionists support her in this, if she didn't have the RTL street cred and people in her area knew about the white out? What evidence suggests the complicated plan and long-term planning? I'm not quibbling at all, I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Reply
Laura Novak link
9/30/2011 11:25:06 am

I really appreciate the comparison, or rather, timeline involving Wooten and the divorce and Wooten and the vendetta. As I said in the post, the events don't line up with Trig's birth, yet still, as Brad and others point out, the vehemence is intriguing.

I keep stumbling in my mind over the idea of a teenage girl holding a friend's mother's baby and whether or not she would (or I would) notice a defect at that age. But I"m more stymied at the thought of my brother holding his girlfriend's mother's baby in a hospital room. Um, perhaps we'll explore that odd point in another post. And I'll see if I can come up with a rationalization for it!

It's Sept. 30th. Has Sarah thrown her "name in the hat" yet?

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 11:26:16 am

On DS, is the chromosomal anomaly ONLY attributable to the mother? Is it transmitted only from the egg and not the sperm?

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 11:31:30 am

FrostyAK: two younger pics of Wooten:

http://tinyurl.com/3ra4jjl

http://tinyurl.com/3r4ywqa

Reply
Up
9/30/2011 11:36:16 am

Not yet. Red State has been liveblogging Palin's non-announcement all day, and it has been hysterical.

I was just looking at the ears of Sarah, Wooten and Trig. (God help me.) Trig's ears are more like Sarah's than Wooten's. Both Trig & Sarah have much more pronounced double-bridge ears than Wooten.

FWIW, one of my kids was born with a large birthmark on her scalp, under a dark hair. (Oh! The heartburn!) I didn't notice the birthmark until she was about 12 hours old and the doc pointed it out. So I can understand Sadie not necessarily noticing the ears if she's as unobservant as I am.

Reply
comeonpeople
9/30/2011 11:44:54 am

@Frosty,
Most cases of DS are due to maternal non-dysjunction of chromosome 21, but yes it rarely rarely is poosible with male sperm non=dysjunction.
Thinknig back to biology, all human cells have 46 chromosomes except the egg and sperm which have 23, so that they can combine to form 46. When egg cells and sperm cells are made, they split their chhromosomes so that only one pair is in each egg and serm. Whent ey fail to split, this is non-dysjunstion and then the egg or serm would get extra chromosomes and when they combine with the egg or sperm there are two many.

Per this link, 5-10% of Tri-G is due to paternal nondysjunction
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9668162

Reply
comeonpeople
9/30/2011 11:51:05 am

@Frosty:
ok sorry my comment is barely readable, (wish there was an edit function:) but I hope you get the gist of it.
Paternal nondysjunction (this is how I learned to spell it, now is disjunction?) is the cause of 5-10% of Trisomy G cases.

Reply
B
9/30/2011 11:53:05 am

A comment at Audrey's may be where I first learned about Molly marrying her PI, Hackett. Her current dental office bio says Molly McCann has three kids, so the other six mentioned below must be step-kids. She went back to using the McCann name after her Wooten divorce, and perhaps after a Hackett divorce. I also remember a Heath family photo from Christmas 2006 (?) that had Molly standing with someone who looked like Wooten and wondering if it was Hackett.

Anonymous said...
Molly Heath McCann Wooten McCann Hackett . . . She has nine kids by at least two different men, the first being Jack McCann and the second being Mike Wooten (of Troopergate). He himself has been married five times. Word on the street is that Molly is not such a great mom either and that her kids are a wild bunch who live with their grandparents much of the time as the parents are not around much due to remote site jobs. Sound familiar? Mike Wooten spent a lot of time looking after the Palin kids when SP and Todd were busy. His son asked him to taser him to impress Bristol, who was standing there watching in the backyard. He said he wanted to show her that he was not a baby. . . . There's supposedly a lot of interaction some not so above the law between Sarah's kids and Molly's kids. Not a lot of parental supervision.

DECEMBER 7, 2008 3:32 PM

Reply
B
9/30/2011 11:56:41 am

@FrostyAK.

WebMD Health News July 1, 2003 -- Older fathers may contribute just as much as older mothers to the dramatic increase in Down syndrome risk faced by babies born to older couples. A new study found that older fathers were responsible for up to 50% of the rise in Down syndrome risk when the mother was also over 40.

Reply
Ottoline
9/30/2011 11:57:37 am

Two more of Trooper Wooten:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvjantzen/2948783724/

http://tinyurl.com/3c75ezc

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 12:06:13 pm

@Otto - This one is really hilarious:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvjantzen/2948783724/
Obviously a stripper.

Wondering if Brad could use the others in a comparison composite.

Reply
NSG
9/30/2011 12:07:21 pm

Heh. A comment from the Redstate P-day countdown:

Leaders are decisive. Turns out Palin is not.

Wonder if Erick will keep this up to midnight in AK?

Reply
nancydrewed link
9/30/2011 12:15:31 pm

Joe has a post at his blog worth your time about books sales and being on the "Editor's Pick" list in the weekend NYTBR. That's a very big deal, essentially responding to whatever Janet Maslin was up to pre-publication.

http://www.joemcginniss.net/update-on-the-rogue/Joe%20McGinniss

Public speculation about "looks like", ear "comparisons". Not my idea of what we want floating around forever in the tubosphere. But, that's me. Weekend cheers all.

Reply
SLQ
9/30/2011 12:45:49 pm

Otto, note that on this link http://www.jrr2ok.com/2008_10_05_archive.html the one on the left is Wooten. The one on the right is actor Matt Parkman. The site is a spoof.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 12:58:21 pm

We've got all this lookalike stuff and inner ear analysis I'm wondering how do you all explain Bill Clinton's bent pecker? Paternal? Maternal? Arkansasian? What?

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 01:08:00 pm

For our doctors.

If the older male can contribute the Tri G chromosome from 10% to 50% of the time (according to the above stats), why does the mother need to be over 40? Because the chance of Tri G is higher per pregnancy in older women? I believe the statistics show that because younger women actually conceive more often, they produce more Down Syndrome babies than the older group?

What if a geriatric male provided the sperm? And the recipient is in the young age group?

I know, not a nice possibility to consider, but... None of it is pleasant to contemplate.

Reply
Lillypop
9/30/2011 01:50:12 pm

MeAgain is DERANGED. Just yesterday, Trig was at Bouncing Bears in Anchorage with his siblings.

It has not been MONTHS since he's been out and about. He was at the Heaths shindig.

Dude, people are NUTS.

Reply
nancydrewed link
9/30/2011 01:54:49 pm

@Tom. Umm. Yes.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 02:12:42 pm

@nancydrewed==

Reply
LakeLucilleLoon
9/30/2011 02:16:27 pm

Hey Tom,

More info on Bill Clinton's "bent pecker" please. I've known a few men in my life that "list both left and right". I didn't know there was a genetic code for the "bent pecker". The lefties seem to hit the G-Spot in a more favorable manner, so I'm guessin' that Clinton was a leftie, being that he was popular with the ladies :-)

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 02:22:07 pm

What? Give it some years and you all can come back and compare notes on it. Brad, I'll put you down for first look. I'm gonna pass.

@Lilypop--

Been hoping that someone would provide an acronym index for this blog. Hasn't happened but when/if it does you can KMA.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 02:28:28 pm

Hey Lake Lucille Loon,

I'm more middle of the road, flexible, given to new ideas. As they say, just sayin'.

Reply
Banyan
9/30/2011 02:54:46 pm

@ Up

The Dominionists (Mary Glazier, et al) claim that god chose Sarah for high political power when she was quite young -- still in her teens. She was then "anointed" and destined for the presidency. (see McG's book)

Palin told her campaign manager and others, in all seriousness, that she was destined to be president (this was back in the 1990s before her election as mayor of Wasilla). She was then being groomed to compete for the highest political office by her loony congregation.

Sarah discussed her possible "pregnancy" while in office as early as 2006 with Frank Bailey, according to his book.

The Dominionists went with Sarah because she was in their view, "chosen by god," because she had reached a level of power (governorship of Alaska) where she could be plausible as a possible presidential candidate, and because she was highly charismatic.

The rest of it (her personal life) could be fixed, and was, they thought, with the acquisition of Trig.

The acquisition of Tri-G involved a hoax which was put into play once Bud" Paxson seriously twisted McCain's arm (Feb. 2008) and got him to commit to Palin. (I've discussed the Paxson-McCain relationship at length here previously; Dunn covers it in his book, as well.)

Then, on March 5th, once McCain was clearly, definitely going to be the nominee, Sarah announced her "7 month pregnancy." And Trig was "delivered" to Sarah sometime in April.

Trig has the middle name -- Paxson-- for a reason.

The Domionists are a cynical, power-mad bunch, and Sarah was the best bet they had at the time -- although Michele Bachmann was in the running then as well.

Sarah had tried to toe the Dominionist/Militia line throughout her time in elected office. She did, however, have a lot of personal baggage. Trig would erase, or divert attention from, much of that, the Fundies reasoned. This was the prop Sarah needed to carry out her "mission from god."

Sarah was the Dominionist/GOP's desperate "Hail Mary" pass. They planned for it, helped carry out most of the logistics, and almost got away with it.

Reply
search4more
9/30/2011 03:06:41 pm

I have read about 2/3rds of the comments so far. I just had a little look at the wikipedia article about "Troopergate" which is in Wikipedia as the "Alaska Public Safety Commissioner dismissal"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Public_Safety_Commissioner_dismissal

"In January 2005, they were separated"

"On April 11, 2005, McCann filed for divorce from Wooten. That day a judge granted a Domestic Violence Protection Order (DVPO) against Wooten. The same day, McCann's father Chuck Heath phoned police to inform them about the DVPO"

"In May 2005, Sarah Palin told police that she and her son Track overheard a death threat against her father (Heath)..."

--------

So it's an interesting theory that Wooten could be Trig's father. It's certainly not impossible. However this dispute went on for a long time. At the point in time when Palin/Molly/[*Bristol] would need to get pregnant for the theories to work wouldn't they all have hated Wooten at that point?

It's possible of course that Wooten and Molly could have gotten together even in the period they were fighting. Fighting couples often do that. I don't know if that happened in this case though.

* I don't think we know what Bristol's relationship with Wooten was do we? I'm not an expert on this. I haven't read any of the legal docs. Was she involved in making major allegations against him which would suggest they had a bad relationship?

Reply
search4more
9/30/2011 03:08:51 pm

I found these pics of Molly McCann:

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Molly+McCann

Interestingly the caption for one of them says she is a journalist. I guess she or Bristol was having some fun with the journalist/photographer involved by making that up.

Reply
search4more
9/30/2011 03:31:49 pm

OK I have now read all the comments. Cr*p! In my comment I just said what someone else did.

Sorry.

Reply
LakeLucilleLoon
9/30/2011 03:34:23 pm

MeAgain has still not said anything that the rest of us that keep up with Palin news could not have come up with.

Yep, Trig's last birthday greeting from Sarah was a promo photo from her TLC show. We already know that.

This person has not said anything that we couldn't all type up knowing what the "audience" wants to hear and see.

Trig's been abandoned! Show me the proof.

Sarah's freaked out about not having a birth certificate for Trig! Show me the proof.

Sarah and Bristol are freaking because Bristol's reality show is not previewing well with test audiences. Someone named "Bailey's Mom" already said this on HuffPo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Baileys_Mom/levi-johnston-bristol-palin_n_985958_110332910.html

So, either MeAgain is "Bailey's Mom" or he or she is pulling stuff from popular media and posting them on a now obscure thread on The Immoral Minority.

Whatever the case, this person seems not to be prescient, but rather to report news that has already been reported or report assumed items from the "Palin world" that people who follow the story would only be too willing to believe.

Until there is a verification of any of the information this person is putting forth, there is no reason to believe what he or she is saying.

Any of us could write this stuff.

There is no real "insider info" contained within the posts, just a repurposing of info that is already within the blogosphere and media realm.

Reply
Palinoia
9/30/2011 03:38:52 pm

Haven't had time to peruse all the comments, but wanted to say: don't forget the great writing that Andrew Halcro did on his blog.

Here is one he did on Trooper Wooten and the Palins:

http://tinyurl.com/5mm7qx

One of the comments in response to this caught my eye - Brad and others have questioned why in the world would the Palins and Molly try so hard to create a job loss for Trooper Wooten, when that would have meant reduced child support, or even none. Well, the comment was made on Andrew's blog that maybe their real goal was to strip him of his ability to pay attorneys to keep fighting for his kids and his divorce.

I'd also like to point out that there didn't have to be something "deeper" here regarding Trooper Wooten, in that we all know now how reactionary the Palins are; how much Sarah lies; Molly was raised in the same dysfunctional household so she could be just as much of a liar as Sarah. Just not as famous.

Who knows what Molly may have told (lied?) about to the Palins regarding Trooper Wooten to help incite their wrath throughout the divorce and custody hearings. Nothing would surprise me in that regard.



Reply
Palinoia
9/30/2011 03:48:40 pm

And more from Andrew Halcro regarding Sarah's schedule and oh-so-busy days as governor. Special note, he wrote this blog on 1/12/09, and Janice Mason, Sarah's scheduler gave her resignation notice on 1/7/09, per an ADN article on 1/8/09. Hmmm.....

http://tinyurl.com/7ocs6r

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 04:23:23 pm

@Palinoia--

I've been meaning to bring up Andrew Halcro. I like him. His view of AK and its politics seems worthy of attention to me. I'd vote for him. He's a Repub but not in the AK sense. He's seen SP close up. I've gone back years on his blog to read gis opinions. I remember reading somewhere SP asking about Halcro, "Who are his sources?" What SP doesn't get is that Halcro is smart. He has her dialed in, especially when it comes to ACES and moreso AGIA ( oil and natural gas, respectively).

Reply
Ginger
9/30/2011 04:29:18 pm

@Banyan

So, Sarah didn't have the "street credits" to be elected Lt. Governor. Then, how did she get elected Governor in 2006?

Trig wasn't around until April 18, 2008.

Just sayin'...

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 04:38:37 pm

See what Palinoia and I mean. Andrew Halcro gets under her skin (and they are former pals).

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/andrew-halcro-got-under-sarah-palin-s-skin

And you.ve all seen this. Halcro breaking her balls.

http://www.anchoragepress.com/news/anchoragepress.com/news/article_8a8cda5c-9d0f-11e0-870b-001cc4c03286.html

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 04:40:16 pm

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 04:45:17 pm

@Ginger - $P got elected governor because Frank Murkowski was despised by a large portion of the population, morfe due to his arrogance than anything else. She won the primary against him on the ticket of "anybody but Frank", and a wink. No vetting then either.

This is a bright red state. She ran against former gov Tony Knowles(D). She got less than 50% of the vote, winning (kinda like Charlie Sheen).

Reply
Palinoia
9/30/2011 04:46:56 pm

Tom - I died laughing when I saw Andrew's Going Rogue video the first time (and second, and third). She is such a NASTY piece of mean girl work!

He is a very smart guy, and a great writer, and so very thorough in documentation.

If only more of the Republican part had more Andrew Halcro's in it, they probably wouldn't be circling the drain like they are.

Reply
Tom link
9/30/2011 04:47:28 pm

@Ginger

Not to belabor it, but go to www.andrewhalcro.com and go back some years. You'll learn a lot about the political climate in AK. Use 'search' for SP. You'll find his view, a solid one, on SP's oil and natural gas fuckups (the gas line that she said at the RNC was running and has never been built and will cost AKers $500M just to say hello--hasn't she mentioned that part) Halcro's good.

Reply
FrostyAK
9/30/2011 04:51:55 pm

@ Banyan - there is a very small town in AK called Paxson. The population is less than 50.

Reply
Up
9/30/2011 10:36:05 pm

Banyan, I get that what you are saying about Palin being adored by the Dominionists. What I don't get is why they've stuck with her despite her un-Christian baggage. When does she even see them if she spends all her time at Nordstroms, scarfing down Taco Bell & watching Lifetime tv in her bedroom? I guess we'll have to chalk that up to the old Palin charm.

And I think she still thinks she's running. I saw the clips of her on Faux this week. She didn't seem too rattled, or too out of it, by her own standards.

Reply
eva marie
9/30/2011 10:50:56 pm

Yeah, about Palin being elected gov without the credentials, someone mentioned her opponent Frank Murkowski.

Local/state politics is always fraught with things only the locals are aware of.

I remember when Edwards and Duke were our only two choices for governor. The bumber stickers sang "Vote for the crook, it's important".

Reply
MN voter
9/30/2011 11:48:55 pm

We got a former pro-wrestler (Jesse Ventura) for governor in a three way election with Norm Coleman (carpetbagger D turned R) and H.H. "Skip" Humphrey (thought he deserved it due to his last name and was a grown man who allowed people to call him Skip--what a dips**t). This was in a much bigger pond than Alaska.

Reply
B
9/30/2011 11:53:05 pm

@LakeLucilleLoon. I disagree. I've followed these blogs since Sept. 08 and MeAgain does add to our conversation. S/he is giving stuff to Gryphen. We'll know more from her within a week or two. Perhaps she will inspire other Wasillans to speak up. Would love one of those carpoolers to go on the record about the tube tying and cauterizing.

Reply
B
9/30/2011 11:54:54 pm

@Tom. Clinton? Nurture, not nature. Namely, overuse.

Reply
litbrit link
10/1/2011 12:28:11 am

Good morning all--White Rabbits! A pinch and a punch on the first of the month and no returns.

I had to get that old British superstition out of the way.

I wanted to comment on the issue of Mercede not noticing Ruffles' ear anomalies. (I brought this up at Bree's blog last year.)

My third son was born with a congenital birth defect--two related ones, actually--called aural atresia and microtia. The atresia refers to an extreme stenosis (narrowing) or complete absence of the ear canal. The condition occurs during gestation at the time when the canal forms from two small "tubes" developing in that part of the fetal skull--they grow toward and eventually meet each other, forming the membrane that is the ear drum. For unknown reasons, in a tiny percentage of infants (I've been told one in 37,000) the process stalls or stops, and one or both structures will be absent, incomplete, or very narrow. The condition can be unilateral (one-sided, as it is with my son) or bilateral. Obviously, without an ear canal and ear drum, there is deafness on that side (my son is deaf in his right ear). Skilled ENT surgeons can create an ear canal and drum from grafted skin, provided the other essential structures of the inner ear are in place AND the aural nerve is properly placed and functioning. They recommend waiting until the child is at least five to do this; with a unilateral case, many parents (like us) decide to wait until the child is nearly full-grown, as he or she can still hear on the other side, and speech and language will usually develop normally (although one-sided hearing makes it harder for an individual to place the origins of sound).

Now: microtia. This word comes from the Latin "little ear", and it means just that. There are varying degrees of the defect, from a slightly smaller and less developed outer ear; to a smaller and notched, mis-shapen, puffy, or otherwise less defined outer ear that people would generally not notice unless it was pointed out; to a tiny bud of tissue--virtually no ear whatsoever.

My son's right outer ear is slightly smaller, more ragged and puffier, than his left ear, which is normal. There is also a tiny bony plate inside the ear, completely closing off the hole where you'd put your Q-tip if you were cleaning your own ear.

For the outer ear issue, a plastic surgeon does the work; depending on the degree of microtia (or, for that matter, any anomaly, like a ragged edge or insufficient cartilage to hold the ear upright against the head, etc.) the surgeon will use various materials and methods. One thing is consistent, however: THEY WILL NOT OPERATE ON THE OUTER EAR OF AN INFANT. It is purely a cosmetic consideration; furthermore, the size of the ear will increase dramatically in the first few years of life, and plastic surgeons prefer to wait as long as possible--until school age (approximately five years old) at the earliest, so as to enable a child to "look normal", if this is a concern.

When I gave birth to my (third) son, in 1999, routine hearing tests were not performed on newborns in the United States--your pediatrician had to recommend that they be done if he suspected a problem (President Clinton, bless his heart, pushed hard for legislation that would require them for ALL neonates the following year--so important for detecting hearing problems that, left unaddressed, have led to language delays, learning problems, and a slew of developmental misdiagnoses in babies who simply weren't hearing the world around them!)

Anyway, it was the day after his birth when our pediatrician broke the news to me and showed me my son's right ear, comparing it to his left, and explained that he suspected atresia and microtia, and had ordered complete hearing tests for both sides (they confirmed that he was deaf on the right side). I was completely blindsided. I had not noticed any ear anomalies--AND I AM HIS MOTHER! Furthermore, he is my third son. We examine their tiny, wrinkled and wriggly bodies with such joy when we finally get to cast our eyes on them--counting toes and fingers, marveling at hair that is a completely different color that what we imagined over the previous nine months--and I did all those things. I did not, however, notice the right ear's anomalies. And neither did my mother (grandmother of seven) and neither did my husband, nor anyone else.

Here's my takeaway on ear anomalies and Ruffles:

1. It's entirely believable that Mercede--and anyone else not in on the secret--did not pay attention to tiny Ruffles' ears. Obviously!

2. We put little beanies on the heads of newborns--and we do this for the first few weeks, even here in Florida (and definitely in Alaska)--to help them retain body heat. It's likely that Ruffles' ears were covered up a lot of the time. Only when he was displayed Chez Palin did the protective clothing come off (see also: Trig, lack of socks and shoes in winter; Trig, lack of warm jacket in snowy weather, etc. etc.)

3. Th

Reply
mary b
10/1/2011 12:30:33 am

Most of the comments here are very useful to the discussion, (except the trolls)
With all the lies $arah has told/keeps telling, nothing would surprise me.
Joe also documented in his book about $arah walking around nude in front of her classmates in High School. $he had responded to some of them that it was not healthy to sleep with clothes on.
$he also made some remarks about wearing her best 'push-up bra' at City Council Meetings. Also, too, look at the way she uses her sexuality when ever she thinks it will benefit her.
Now, take all of that in, then think about what Bristol learned from her while growing up. It's already obvious that she is very much like her Mommy Dearest.
So, my point being, I would not doubt if Bristol had sex with Wooten. If he had so many personal problems, and Bristol never really had a Mother (so to speak), it's not a long stretch at all.
God, this Palin Circus needs to end soon!! It's a real life soap opera. Maybe even worse.

Reply
litbrit link
10/1/2011 12:32:40 am

(Arrgh, continuing with 3)

3. There is no way Ruffles' ear was corrected surgically while he was a tiny baby, resulting in the smooth, well-formed ears we see on RNC-Trig.

4. Since there were only a couple of "Ruffles appearances"--at the baby shower and in the Palins' kitchen, per Mercede's MySpace page, and he then disappeared from view--I think it is most likely that Ruffles was a borrowed baby. He was newborn-looking and he served the purpose (of being Sarah's newborn baby, because she did not actually give birth to one herself). Where was Trig at the time? I can only guess he was kept at home--somewhere--because he was born earlier in the year, if not late the previous year, and was thus a bit too large to look like a newborn (even if he was growing at a slower pace due to D's); because he was still in fragile health and exposure to the public at large was contraindicated; or both.

5. I strongly lean toward Bristol being Trig's bio-mother. The gaps in her school schedule, the weirdness with the family photos, and the glimpses of her at the MTV show recorded in NYC, where other teens are sporting the usual low-slung jeans and fitted clothes but the formerly slender Bristol appears quite zaftig and is wearing a black pencil skirt and a large, baggy and billowy white/cream business-attire blouse that is completely out-of-character for any teen, including Bristol herself when not pregnant, would argue in favor of this theory. Furthermore, I simply cannot imagine the vain Mrs. Palin doing herself up in a fat suit (and deliberately gaining a little weight, on purpose--being able to binge on honeybuns and Hagen Daazs and not have to throw it up afterward would surely have been a relief and an enjoyable change of pace for her) unless the person for whom she was covering was a daughter. Which is not to say she did not *also* see the value of being hailed as Life-Giving Sarah of the Tundra by the dominionist voters, especially if said value had been pointed out to her in explicit monetary and political terms.

Reply
V ictoria link
10/1/2011 12:48:45 am

@litbrit - I, too, have always thought Ruffles was borrowed because Trig was too big. Wasn't there a puppy being ready referred to in an email? That could be Ruffles.

I also agree that Bristol is most likely the mother. I even think it's possible that they meant to leave the baby with an aunt but that Trig's medical problems were too significant - both care and cost - for anyone but the Palins to take him on.

Reply
search4more
10/1/2011 01:01:40 am

litbrit,

Good post. Thanks.

I'd love to here what the appropriate specialist would say about the whole ear thing. I guess the specialist would be a plastic surgeon or ENT who has specifically dealt with ear defects in young infants.

Laura is it possible that you could interview one? I know it would be hard to find one who would want to be interviewed.

I'm a really indecisive person, so I'm still not 100% sold on the 2 babies thing. I know it's majorly weird. I really just want confirmation that:

1) A premature baby can't be born with underdeveloped ears which look funny and then over a few months develop normal ears.

and...

2) There is no procedure which could lead to the babies ears recovering and looking normal in 5 months.

Has anyone ever tried to measure the babies in each picture. In each picture the baby is held close by Palin/Levi/Mercede/Palin's mom. What I'm thinking is that if we could find some photos where these people are in the same picture facing forward, like they would be in a posed family picture then we could compare the size of the baby in each picture.

Reply
search4more
10/1/2011 01:32:52 am

The ideal scenario would be for us to find a picture where they are all in a line facing forwards, and where the person taking the picture took it at a distance using a telephoto lens.

I imagine that this picture doesn't exist. However Levi will have posed for a picture with Bristol and Bristol will have posed for a family photo with her mom and grandmother. We should be able to use these 2 pictures, if they are front on pictures, to work out the relative size of those who held Trig. By doing this it may then be possible to estimate the size of the baby in each photo. It wouldn't definitely work, but it's an interesting thing to try.

A complicating factor of course is the blanket wrapped around the baby in a couple of the photos. It makes it hard to judge where the feet are.

Reply
search4more
10/1/2011 01:35:22 am

I apologise for my terrible typing.

Whenever I reread anything I typed I see a huge number of mistakes.

Reply
B
10/1/2011 02:01:59 am

@litbrit. Always good to hear from you, and especially with your personal experience.

This post about the repair done to Ruffles'/Trig's ear was pretty convincing to me:

www.palinpeytonplace.com/
2-babies-1-surgical-repair---
presented-by-sarah-palin.html

This suggests the baby on the RNC stage was the temporary substitute for the real Trig aka Ruffles. I think the hospital baby held by the Heaths was different too, either a larger, healthier rent-a-baby or a reborn doll.

Reply
Ghettoklown
10/1/2011 02:06:45 am

To me, Triggybear looks exactly like Trig today. His hair is the same, is face shape, mouth and just the essence of him is the same. I will say that the first baby shown does appear slightly different but the lighting is also different. He looked jaundice and newly born to me. I still think Trig was born in April to someone. Because triggybear was NOT born months before. I would bet $1000.

But what does all this analysis mean anyway. Nothing is going to change the fact that Trig is the newest sibling of the Palin family. No matter what is divulged he will always be a part of the family. Im getting to the point where we just seem like hateful obsessives. In the end, no one's going to care one way or the other because most people don't follow others' lives so intimately.

What does this say about us? Nothing good IMHO.

Reply
Up
10/1/2011 02:09:51 am

litbrit, it is always a pleasure to hear your voice. I've continued to think about Mercedes and Ruffles. The house was full of people, there was a birthday cake, and probably some competition to hold the baby. If you and I as mothers missed these things in our own newborns, it isn't unreasonable to think that Sadie would notice in a short visit at a little birthday celebration.

Reply
eclecticsandra
10/1/2011 02:44:25 am

I've always wondered about that birthday cake. Why was it in the picture? For a dating that apparently was confirmed by Sherry.When you compare it to the cakes we've seen in other photos (including Piper's that was destroyed), it seems pretty puny, especially for an 18th birthday.

Why was the cake only in the picture with Levi? Why was there no picture of Bristol holding the baby? Where were Piper and Willow?

Reply
B
10/1/2011 03:03:21 am

@Ghettoklown. Exposing the fake and politically advantageous pregnancy of a crazy sitting Governor whom a major political party put within a few steps of the Oval Office does not make us hateful obsessives. Perhaps it makes us patriots.

Reply
Dis Gusted
10/1/2011 03:18:11 am

"I know very little about Diana Palin. Todd is fond of Trig. Are Todd and Diana close? Is Diana currently involved with Trig's care?"

Todd is the only one who showed up at court for Diana and he was in charge of getting her out. It was very low key. Diana Palin got a much lesser sentence than Levi's mother did.

Reply
Viola-Alex
10/1/2011 03:49:01 am

Two comments about recent remarks--

Thanks, LitBrit, for your insight on baby anatomy and how much we may miss. I've long believed that Ruffles was the stand-in for closeups, so that Trig could be kept safe for a few months more. SP could wave R. around quickly to show "newborn" than be done with him/her.

RE: Bristol and Wooten, as distasteful as this is for me. Sadly, in many cases of young girls abused by older men, the girl is blamed. She's blamed for being a hussy, for inviting it. (ala Lolita) Even parents will blame their daughter, and punish her, while letting the perpetrator off the hook. I've even read this on blogs. ANY underage girl in a sexual situation with an older man is THE victim.

Reply
JJ
10/1/2011 03:58:22 am

@B
I always thought that palinpeytonplace was extremely convincing about when/how the switch took place. I know that a doctor would not do a major repair on a baby's ear, but this requires nothing major. Also I have always thought it HIGHLY suspicious that Palin mis-spoke that time and said "ear forms" instead of "earmarks." Ear forms are EXACTLY what would have been used for the repair. What are the chances that she let that word slip?? Also the fact that she went berserk when Gryphen's two babies post came out makes me think that Ruffles is the original baby, and they replaced him with the higher functioning DS baby that we currently see.
I admit I have gone back and forth between which baby I believe Bristol birthed and which is the stand-in, and I still think that Ruffles is the original, real deal.
Please go check out B's link to palinpeytonplace

Reply
sunnyskies
10/1/2011 04:07:00 am

ja thought. Thanks for the timeline. These really help. However, if you have not already done so, change Jan 2006 to Jan 2007 - that's when Palin became gov. I think it must have been a typo since it doesn't fit with the rest of the time line.

I am interested in the first 6 months of SP governorship and where and what her 3 oldest kids were up to. From what has been reported about their behaviors on many occasions, it's not hard to believe that these kids were "hoodlems" - that's what they would have been called when I was in school anyway. You know, the rich kids who seems to get away with what the rest of us would never dream of.

What happened to the MV Picifica and why was its sinking in Juneau never reported in the papers? Was it a cover-up because the Palin kids were implicated in the incident? The yacht belonged to a police detective and his wife, a clerk at the Superior Court - does everybody in Alaska have an expensive yacht? It was rumored to have been a party boat and there were stories of alcohol and drug use by underage teens, promiscuous sex (Bristol and Dylan Kolvig, boat owner's son, were supposed to be an "item.")

Why does it matter what the Palin kids were up to in Juneau? Because I think the period between Jan 1 2007, when Sarah became governor, and Feb 2008 when Bristol had her car accident in Wasilla, was when Bristol was out of control. It's possible that "Trig" or some baby was born to B during this time, a possibility made more likely if she was part of a wild party scene in Juneau.

If I were a trial lawyer, I would want to paint as clear a picture as possible of the culture these teens were living. I am an anthropologist by training and I always look at the background for clues - it's what I am trained to do.

So, what was it like for the upper echolon teens in Juneau? Was it a wild party time with all it's sins or was it a time of strict curfews, school attendance, parental supervision?

When the whitewash starts to thin and folks are starting to see all the curious stains on the walls, then the real picture starts to take shape. Curious minds want to know, and they are looking.

Reply
viola-Alex
10/1/2011 05:56:19 am

Sunnyskies, what you write interests me alot. In Bristol's book, she spends a lot of time on her Juneau period. She paints it as a special time, that took adjustment, but where she had great friends and good schooling. She spends so much time on it, it stands out to the rest of the book which is vague and non-specific. I always thought SOMETHING happened then that was important to whitewash.

Your background as anthropologist intrigues me.

Reply
molly malone
10/1/2011 05:57:00 am

Trig's "birth" at Mat-Su R.H. was tightly choreographed with regard to time and place, and Sarah and Todd could not have pulled this off without the help of one or more people in the local medical community (and possibly elsewhere). Too, it appears that Sarah and Todd received some solid legal advice with regard to insurance claims and maternity leave, which suggests the involvement of an attorney. The Palins are simply not bright enough to pull all this off on their own.

The question was raised up-thread: Why take such an extremely risky gamble, when the detrimental consequences of exposure far outweighed any advantages to be gained should the hoax prove successful? I think that's a good question. Why bet the farm on that particular roll of the dice? And why would anyone in the medical profession put themselves at risk by helping her?

The only answer I can come up with is that Palin had a plausible fallback position should things fall apart: she could claim the baby was Bristol's, and that she (s.p.) was simply doing the noble thing. Is Trig Bristol's son? Or did Sarah simply set her up to take the fall should the hoax fall apart? Seems a remarkable coincidence that Bristol would give birth to a D.S. baby precisely when Sarah could use one to political advantage.

Then there's the other coincidence of the child's name--Trig Paxton Van. What are the odds of Sarah picking those names at random, compared to deliberately naming a D.S. baby Tri-G, and giving him the middle names of her Dominionist advocate and her attorney?

Coincidences. Wherever we look we find coincidences. The church fire, Dar Miller's death, the sports complex and Palin's house, an argument followed by a plane crash . . .

Sometimes I wonder if the coincidences tell the tale.

Reply
jk
10/1/2011 06:07:16 am

litbrit: there are two photos of an infant with ruffled ears, dated May and June, in Bailey's book. I'm pretty sure it was MeAgain from IM who said that Palin went ballistic when she saw them.

Reply
curiouser
10/1/2011 06:10:59 am

V-A - Bristol loved her friends and school in Juneau yet she didn't want to go back the next year (or wasn't allowed to go back) raises questions. She was on the girls basketball team for her sophomore year there--the last time she'd participate in H.S. athletics. I wonder why she didn't play basketball her Junior year in Anchorage. Mono would be a valid reason but her family denies that she was sick.

Does her book give a reason for transferring to Anchorage?

Reply
Tom link
10/1/2011 06:11:44 am

@Viola--
It's always that way. There's more intelligence and openmindedness in state capital cities or state university towns (sometimes they're the same). Joe lives in Amherst, MA. I promise you if you show up in the Amherst/Northampton area of MA you better have your information processing skills on high alert. The level of conversation is different. And good for anyone who understands that. For me, I want to return, knowing well that bullshit doesn't walk.

Reply
Laura Novak link
10/1/2011 06:14:46 am

I forgot to thank LitBrit for telling us that personal story. Fascinating and enlightening. It's worth a story of it's own.

And Miss Molly Malone! Holy COW! I don't know that I've yet seen it spelled out like that - that even Bristol would be the fall back. Or, that the names were pulled from Van Flea as well. Possibly.

With all of the baby's names, you're right: one coincidence after another. Shocking really when you think about it. Which only makes my head hurt even more.

Reply
Tom link
10/1/2011 06:27:55 am

I'm reading a mystery novel by a Swede named Henning Mankell. It's very Lawrence Block/Matt Scudder-ish. He wrote a sentence, in translation, that informs our frustration (mine for sure).

"It's always easier to close a door than it is to open it again. It's always easier to maintain a cleverly constructed lie than it is to find an unclear truth."

Several times I've suggested "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis. I tyhink that only Victoria mentioned that she picked it up. Lewis wrote this political satire quickly. Everything that's happening today is in his book, published in 1935. So, maybe put aside the ears for a second and read about contemporary reality written 75+ years ago.

Reply
Viola-Alex
10/1/2011 06:53:29 am

curiouser, Bristol says that although she "loved her time" in Juneau, she begged not to go back, because of catty girls and Levi being too far away. It reads as if her parents made her go to Juneau in the first place, yet we have no other confirmation that her parents made her do anything else. It just always smelled to me, that Juneau got such a big play. So what sunnyskies mentions makes a lot of sense. As does Bristol getting pregnant there.


Damn, Tom, how many times I wished for Wallender to arrive on the scene in AK. I love Mankell's books, and they create the same dark landscape as Sarah's.

Reply
FrostyAK
10/1/2011 07:13:32 am

Let's remember, $P doesn't believe in coincidences. None of it was coincidence, other than maybe Bristle getting pregnant at a politically horrible time.

$P is by no means smart enough to stage such a hoax. Only the puppet masters were. They took a bad situation and turned it into political GOLD, even with the bad acting abilities of $P. Until it is finally exposed that is, but the corporate owned media is NOT going to do that.

Has anyone considered that the participants have not uttered a word on it due to threats to themselves and their families? That the fire investigations were sealed, never to be opened again for a more than local reason? Remember we may not not dealing only with the Wasilla mafia, but with a very much larger version of it based in DC.

Someone asked why Dominionists aren't put off by $P's lack of Christianity. MANY Dominionists are politicians first, and religion is only a tool used by them to mold this country into a fascist state, where they rule with an iron hand.

Reply
curiouser
10/1/2011 07:21:40 am

litbrit - I always enjoy your comments. Your personal experience adds great weight to the question of whether something must or may not be noticed. For me, your comment underlines the importance of caution about coming to unqualified conclusions such as Mercede is lying because she would have noticed the ear deformity.

Reply
curiouser
10/1/2011 07:31:36 am

Molly Malone- I think the 'Bristol is pregnant' rumor was critical to the hoax. As you said, it provided a backup if Sarah got caught. From Bailey's book, it also seems Sarah used the rumor to gain sympathy from her staff and solidify their belief that she was pregnant. I wonder about the staff members--ones outside of the inner circle who may not have been so enamored or brainwashed--who left their posts after Sarah's 'pregnancy'.

If Bristol wasn't pregnant, I suspect Sarah may have started the rumor herself or prompted someone to start the rumor.

Reply
Banyan
10/1/2011 07:45:36 am

Had to be away from the computer for most of the day, but see that others have addressed most of the comments that have been addressed to me.

Frosty AK and Tom are correct about why Sarah eventually won the governorship.

Her narrow previous loss (2,000 votes) of the Lt. Governorship was, however, thought to be the result of the lack of a R-T-L endorsement.

And, yes, I am aware that "Paxson" is a small snow machine trail locale in AK. The Palins have said that they named Trig after it. But then"Bud' Paxson being the probable person to secure Sarah's place on the ticket with McCain is too coincidental to be...well, a coincidence. As is the Van Palin (VP) that was made into a little halo above Tri-G's head in the birth announcement. Sure the Palins may like Van Halen...but there is another more important reason for using his name. This is just the sort of "hidden message" that Sarah and her co-religionists see everywhere, and love to craft for themselves.

And yes, Bristol (and her many pregnancies) was the obvious fall-back plan if Sarah's birth hoax were ever called into question. (Sarah could then pretend to have been the noble mother covering up for her daughter.

But then someone decided that having Bristol currently pregnant (summer 2008) was more useful to "prove" Sarah had to be the mother of Tri-G.

The Dominionists (in positions of political power) have used Sarah to the max and are now backing away as fast as they can, now that her usefulness is at an end.

Reply
LTA
10/1/2011 08:01:35 am

Wow. Sarah possibly starting those rumors...never thought of it.
It squares with Bristol getting the new truck, the townhouse, the reality show gig (which we all know Sarah likely pulled strings to get), etc


LakeLucilleLoon, I think it's a little misleading to say Me Again just copied a comment from huffpost. I went and looked at the link you posted, and that comment was made 3 days ago. Whereas Me Again spoke on that issue weeks ago.

You don't have to take everything she says as gospel, but it seems like you are purposely trying to make it look like she recycled info when it's probably the huffpost user who read it on IM and then posted at HP.

I really think as far as Bristol's show goes, Me Again is the rill dill. She said Bristol was bombing with test audiences and right after that one of the masseys said the show was now going to center around Tripp. Me Again commented about Sarah telling Bristol to do whatever it took to make the show more interesting and give it ratings, and lo and behold there is a bar fight complete with mechanical bull, Jesus sweatshirt, and TMZ cameras.

I really don't see how Me again could have guessed or made up such specific things and had them pan out within days of mentioning them.

Reply
curiouser
10/1/2011 08:11:13 am

Thanks, V-A! Wanting to stay close to Levi jives with his book. It does smell...it all smells. I hope Laura's skunk is a sign that we're, also too, getting close to purifying the air.

I've been angry ever since Rachel Maddow's recent interview with Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace. The media seems to be ignoring the'serious political news about Sarah Palin' that came from the interview. It may be time for a Senate investigation into the flaws in the VP selection process and media complicity. I want a 'truth in politicing' law at the minimum.

Reply
Popo
10/1/2011 08:21:02 am

LTA, on Sept 15th, Kyle tweeted to watchout for the Massey brothers takeover or something like that. He enthusiastically mentioned Bristol and the show as well as his other projects.

The show stopped filming about 2 weeks ago (Bristol made a quick stop home before returning) and this past Thursday, Bristol went back to AK for good.

About a month ago, Bristol wrote on facebook about a cute moment between Kyle and Tripp.

Why Anon is still full of it to me:
-She says Bristol has more than one child with her in LA - LIE
-She said Kyle is always annoyed with her - LIE
-She said Bristol ignores her son - hateful LIE

It's not hard to dream up everything Anon says. And if you remember, all of this has been said in the same manner by Media Insider, who turned out to be a huge fraud.

Reply
FrostyAK
10/1/2011 08:22:32 am

Trig Paxson Van Palin

Trig - Trisotomy G or Norse god?

Paxon - Bud Paxson or tiny town in AK that she has never seen?

Van - Van Flea (I think he's in it up to his eyeballs) or Van Halen?

Van Palin - Vice President? Or just a coincidence?

Knowing $P's psychopathology as we do (no need to name it, just look at the elements of it), which options do you think are most probable?

As for Me Again, time will tell if it is truth or bullsh!t. Laura has said she wants the new posts brought over here, so take them for what they are worth.

Reply
Knowledge is.....
10/1/2011 08:26:28 am

Why would Sarah freak out at Frank's inclusion of those pictures? That is Trig in each one. He looks like Trig today.

In HER book:
Bristol recounted many fun adventures form her time in Juneau but towards the end of the year, she claims she didn't want to go back because she wanted to ensure Levi didn't cheat on her. This to me plays into the jealousy meme people have been speaking about. Technically Levi has said previously he (they) did cheat, though obviously he ignores this at present. What's interesting is, the two actually did briefly break up when she was in Anch.

Reply
Tom link
10/1/2011 08:53:40 am

@Popo

Getting fucked while you're being paid to tell young men and women to not get fucked, how would you describe that behavior?

Reply
sunnyskies
10/1/2011 09:45:59 am

Thanks viola Alex and curioser for the info from Bristol's book. I haven't purchased or read any of the Palin books although I will get McGinniss' in the hope that he discusses the "culture" of Alaska, which he knows so well.

An anthropologist looks at culture in specific ways. All human beings have the same basic needs; how we meet these needs are defined by the "culture" we live in. If an individual goes beyond what his or her culture determines is appropriate, then the individual is dealt with however the culture deems suitable: murder? ostracism? incarceration? ridicule?

To complicate matters, within each culture there are subcultures, often splintered from the mainstream by economics, religion, and age. That teens form a subculture in every society is a fact: we are genetically wired that way. Gets the excess population out of the house so to speak.

Anthropologists always look at the individual as a manifestation of his or her culture. That being said, I was naturally interested in the subculture of the upper echelon teens in Juneau. I became interested after stumbling across a few blog posts from teens who were reporting from Juneau during this time.

Juneau of course is the State capitol and as one would expect enjoys a higher than average (by Alaska standards) income and education. It remains about the same for other Alaska municipalities in ethnic make-up - nearly 70% white, with a high Native Alaska population. In short, it seems like a higher than average educated, high income, stable sophisticated place. I assume that means that there is a high number of "blue bloods" who dominate the society, if only behind the scenes.

In a brief Google search of Juneau teens I learned something of interest. There was a Unified School District survey done during the 2007 period at the Juneau high schools that attempted to address the alarming number of teen suicides in the preceding year - 12 teens committed suicide within an 18 month period. published in Juneau Empire 3-30 2008.

The School District survey of teens in the local high schools was optional but about 60% of the students responded. What was learned was than the average number of teen suicides in Juneau was higher than the national average: 9.9/100,00 students compared to 7-9/100,000 nationally. At Juneau Douglas HS, where Bristol attended during this time, 16% of female students and 12% of male students reported than they had actually planned a means of suicide.

The report goes on to say that the teen suicides crossed all cultural indicators, but without statistics showing household income, level of education, social standing in the community, it is impossible to ascertain if there are other factos influending teen suicide rates.

Officials interviewed for the article point several factors that stand out:
1) although nearly all teens personally know a suicide victim, they do not talk about it.There seems to be a cultural taboo about mental illness - it is just not discussed or addressed openly. 2) although the statistics are alarming - as one official pointed out, if these same statistics were about automobile deaths, there would be a public outrage - no one seemed to want to acknowledge the problem of teen suicides, as serious as it was. 3) Social services that might help stem the number of teen suicide rates were sorely lacking. There were later a few religious and for-profit teen help centers, but there seemed to be no public assistance for teens with emotional problems and who might be contemplating suicide.

I haven't done an in-depth study on the culture of teens in Juneau Alaska during the period from 1-2007 to 2-2008, but it was clear that there was a problem in Juneau Alaska regarding teen suicide. Palin was gov at the time.

One final point: all officials agreed that it was not due to "depression" or other mental illnesses that teens in Juneau may have that was the cause of the suicides. It was probably due to drug and alcohol abuse which exascerbates anyone's problems, especially teens.

That Bristol "loved her time in Juneau but begged her parents not to go back" is curious indeed. That she chose to elaborate on her time there is more like an attempt to paint this period in her past in the best light possible.

I don't condemn Bristol or any teen for mistakes they may have made, but she is mature enough now to look back on that time and try to make some effort to insure others don't make the same mistakes. But I guess that doesn't sell on Candies.

I am still curious, however, about the culture of the privileged teens in Juneau and just what the Palin kids were doing at this time to fit in...or not. Adult supervision seems to have been lacking as coverups are so easy when one's parents are rich and powerful.

I think it is time to reconsider what the teens were saying at this time; what they know. They are telling us, but no one is listening.

Reply
Viola-Alex
10/1/2011 10:05:12 am

Thanks, sunnyskies! Very interesting. I've always felt that the Palin story can't be separated from Alaska, or even Wasilla. That all the Palins are products of their place. I used to romance AK, but now sometimes I feel I know more about it as a place than I do my adopted home of CA.

Reply
Ginger
10/1/2011 10:48:58 am

@Tom

Thanks for your reply! I've been reading Andrew Halcro's column and the ADN since 2008. I know all about the pipeline--even read the contract between Alaska and TransCanada--what a mess!

Also, I know Andrew ran as an independent in the same Governor's race as Sarah in 2006. Alaska had the chance to elect a wonderful, brilliant man like Halcro, and instead elected Sarah.

She won over the democrat, Tony Knowles, by 17,400 votes for a total of 144,697. If what Banyan said was true, I just couldn't figure out why so many people voted for her.

Also, I know "Frank-the-Bank M." was thought of as a real crook and that was why she won the "R" primary. Then, Alaska being an "R" state, was probably why she won.

JMO...

Reply
curiouser
10/1/2011 11:04:59 am

sunnyskies - Thank you for sharing your insights. The statistics are chilling.

I vaguely recall controversy over one or more suicide-prevention agencies or over a director of an agency that centered on it having a church focus rather than an approach based in psychological expertise. The 'pray away the gay' movement is alive and well in Alaska.

Alaska has a high number of high school drop-outs (though possibly lower in the more affluent Juneau area). I wonder if suicides in the drop-out population is also high.

I hope you're able to continue researching the Juneau teen culture.

Reply
FrostyAK
10/1/2011 01:48:01 pm

Alaska as a whole has a very high incidence of domestic abuse, child abuse, sexual assault, rape, and suicide. Add to that alcoholism, drug abuse, crime of all sorts and murders. All of those statistics are higher in the Native populations. Add again extreme political corruption. A perfect picture of what non-enforcement or non-regulation can become.

That said, Walt Monegan was trying to do something about those terrible statistics. He was fired. Nothing has come from the administrations to address this horror since Monegan left.

We also have a large homeless population, mostly confined to the cities. Anchorage is doing nothing to help that statistic, other than raid homeless camps. Wasilla has a fairly high teen homeless population.

I liked AK better before I knew all of that...

Reply
Up
10/1/2011 02:52:59 pm

@Ginger, I finally got to p. 191 of Going Rogue today. On that page, Rev Howard Bess explains how the Dominionists were able to overlook Palin's issues. When you are a warrior for God one expects there'll be collateral damage.

Reply
hello it's me again
10/2/2011 02:57:07 am

if 'me again' is so close to the palin circle as to be bringing the rill dill irrefutable truth, would sp not know who it is and shut them down? particularly so if the inner sanctum is now so very, very small?

Reply
B
10/2/2011 12:00:02 pm

@Up. The Rogue?

Reply
B
10/3/2011 05:19:09 am

@hello it's me again.

If Sarah reveals MeAgain's identity to her dangerous bots, she acknowledges she knows who MA is by the content of her comments, and thus she confirms her as authentic. She also frees MA to reveal her identity and tell her facts to a wider audience.

To maintain that MA doesn't know what she's talking about, Sarah needs to maintain that MA, as a confidante of a Palin insider, doesn't exist.

Reply
MissSunshine
10/3/2011 09:14:16 am

A lightbulb went off over my head as I read page 161 of Joe's book regarding the extreme efforts the Palins/Heaths made to drive Trooper Mike Wooten out of Alaska -

The Quitter to cops: "He (Mike Wooten) just kept screaming "I'm gonna kill your dad if he gets an attorney to help you." My fear was that he was gonna kill my dad."

So - it is not Molly, her sister she is "protecting" -but her FATHER, creepy Chuck Heath.

In some way, Mike Wooten was a threat to Chuck Heath. Now in what way would Chuck Heath be afoul of the law??

FrostyAK: you may be right, but I hope not.

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    Laura Novak

    Reporter, Author, Blogger, and Mother...

    Picture

    RSS Feed


    My novel is now on Amazon Kindle!!
    Picture


    Blogs I Read

    Getty Iris
    Cloisters Garden
    Daily Dish
    AlterNet
    Immoral Minority
    Hullabaloo
    Phantomimic
    Jotting Down a Life
    Lynnrockets
    Oakland Local
    Passive Voice
    LitBrit
    Onward
    Joe McGinniss
    Barbara Alfaro
    Suzanne Rosenwasser


    Categories

    All
    Brushes With Greatness
    Dance Number
    Education
    Friday Feature
    Girls On The Bus
    Good Men Project
    Just Sayin
    My Favorite Movie
    Neonatologist
    Private Parts
    Quick Take Tuesday
    Sarah Palin
    Scharlott Stuff
    Scribd
    Shrink Wrap Supreme
    Tao Te Wednesday
    True Confessions
    Vox Populi
    Writing/Publishing

    Picture
    View my profile on LinkedIn
    Picture

    Archives

    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011
    April 2011
    March 2011
    February 2011
    January 2011
    December 2010
    November 2010

Proudly powered by Weebly
Photos used under Creative Commons from acidpix, sicamp, Clearly Ambiguous, breahn, hoill, William Arthur Fine Stationery, southerntabitha, *Vintage Fairytale*, NeoGaboX, Dana Moos, ButterflyOrb, ruurmo, MCS@flickr, h.koppdelaney, Andrew 94, MarkWallace, fdecomite, Wonderlane, christophercarfi, dreamsjung, the superash, euphro, melloveschallah, Rhett Sutphin, I Don't Know, Maybe., Harold Laudeus, h.koppdelaney, jennaddenda, Harrissa Sunshine, Wesley Fryer, fidalgo_dennis, bark, [cipher], fdecomite, Marcos Kontze, legends2k, optick, pjohnkeane, Kabacchi, Pink Sherbet Photography, h.koppdelaney, alexbrn, Elsie esq., Rafael Acorsi, naitokz, tiffa130, otisarchives4, Sheloya Mystical and Agrimas Gothic, allygirl520, tnarik, Daquella manera, peyri, Patrick Hoesly, Anderson Mancini, Abode of Chaos, joewcampbell, keepitsurreal, Jonas N, David Boyle, Gideon Burton, evmaiden, Mike Willis, ankakay, LadyDragonflyCC -Busy Wedding Week for BF Amy!, Cast a Line, aeneastudio, Lord Jim, hisperati, dbzoomer, Mike Licht, NotionsCapital.com, thegardenbuzz, kamshots, AleBonvini, smadden, CarbonNYC