Blog - Laura Novak

Wide Open Thread - Update!

9/19/2011

The fog has lifted. Not only on our damp, grey Bay Area summer (87 degrees and sunny today folks!) but on our Sarah Palin.

The long awaited book from one of my favorite investigative journalists/authors, Joe McGinniss, is soon to land in my mailbox. Gryphen has already dug in, so remember to refresh there often. His first take on The Rogue is an excellent piece of writing.

Professor Brad Scharlott has some tricks up his sleeves. And even Levi Johnston has a book about to hit the shelves.

The sky is blue. Fall is here. As McGinniss said on his blog: Let the wild rumpus begin!

Consider this a wide open thread to discuss any of 'em, all of 'em.

UPDATE: Brad Scharlott's newest research paper is now up on Business Insider. It's well written in the way that only a true scholar like Brad could do. A commenter there links to this PoliticalGates post from yesterday. Also, too, so well written, comprehensive, and thorough in the way that has set those researchers apart from the start.

Still waiting for my book to arrive. But in the meantime, PoGates and Brad have a lot to offer!!

Laura Novak link

9/19/2011 02:56:59 am

I'd like to start by copying and pasting this recent comment from Jesse's current thread:

"Here is the bottom line about babygate: Sarah gave birth to Trig. I am a local and I am a proud Democrat. I am no fan of Sarah Palin. I read all of the blogs closely - yours, Phil Munger's, Mudflats, Politicalgates, etc. I met with Joe McGinnis in the summer of 2010. I know a lot of folks who know Sarah. I also tried to help him find sources for his book. But the reason no one has found a source to verify babygate is because Sarah gave birth to Trig. It is a simple as that. Yes, it is an interesting and exciting story and it would be a huge scoop if it were somehow proven that Sarah faked the pregnancy, but no one can prove that because she did give birth. The real story is simply that she took some risks flying back to AK and maybe she couldn't accept the pregnancy at first and the fact that her child has Downs Syndrome. That's all there is to it. Trig looks just like Piper. He is obviously the biological son of Sarah and Todd."

8:11 AM

Balzafiar

9/19/2011 03:02:43 am

I wish I could embed an audio here of hysterical laughter because that's all the reply that is required.

mxm

9/19/2011 03:13:38 am

Laura, I decided that I would download the free IPAD kindle app last night so that I could read your book. It is a very enjoyable read!

V ictoria link

9/19/2011 03:32:34 am

Then why no birth certificate?

ManxMamma link

9/19/2011 03:33:17 am

Started Finding Clarity last night and it made me homesick for the Bay Area in so many ways. It's a good read.

Headset

9/19/2011 03:41:09 am

Here is the bottomline about babygate: Sarah gave birth to the rumor about giving birth to Trig. I am a Martian and I am a proud inter-galactic traveler. I read all of the blogs closely - yours, Phil Munger's, Mudflats, Politicalgates, etc. I met with Abraham Lincoln in the summer of 1860.I know a lot of folks who know Sarah ...

Melly

9/19/2011 03:43:20 am

"...the reason no one has found a source to verify babygate is because Sarah gave birth to Trig."

I think we need a logician at this point to clarify proving a negative vs proving a positive. All I can come up with is, where is the source who will verify that SP gave DID birth to Trig? A la Brad's offer of a reward.

Boy, it sure took that commenter a while to make his/her statement! Been on all those blogs all this time, and nada until now. Hmmmmm.

Melly

9/19/2011 03:44:30 am

Sorry, I have to correct my good to make it even readable: where is the source who will verify that SP gave birth to Trig?

Melly

9/19/2011 03:44:55 am

Oh, just forget it.

honestyingov

9/19/2011 03:45:12 am

Laura,
What a funny comment that you copied there. It's almost like SarahPAC wrote that for him. For some reason I 'QUESTION' the credibility>( IE:his troll speak )of him. Even Alaska Dispatch called out Tawd this weekend for that lame rebuttal to McGinniss's book by referring to & citing the somewhat negative response in the NYT. They came right out and said it.."Does Todd write sound and talk like THAT"? ( Their answer-NO)Ghostwriters pop up everywhere.It could be this is the SAME person who wrote Tawd's rebuttal..?

Just wondering if this ' anonymous ' thinker has any idea why we have never heard any stories (from sarah)about how Trig, a premature Down's syndrome baby with a hole in his heart and breathing difficulties was never sitting/admitted in an NICU unit ( for maybe weeks in most babies cases )after birth and was so healthy he could be taken to work 3 days after his birth and passed around. Yeah...that's NORMAL, too. Right.
Sarah brags about how she will ' pray ' with Piper. Maybe the 2 of them,grabbed hands,said a prayer for Trig and cured him on the spot of all those ailments. Babies don't need Dr's... they need prayers.. yu betcha.

AFM

9/19/2011 03:59:58 am

She said she produced a birth certificate but no one as come forward and said they have seen it. It would take care of it if she did. All I know any normal woman who has had a baby wouldn't go through what she said she did on the "Wild Ride". If she did then she put that baby in danger and shame on her. But then again what do you expect from Palin it is always about her.

jeff

9/19/2011 04:07:33 am

You know, if Sarah actually had a birth certificate that would support her "Wild Ride" bullshit story, she would surely give a copy of it to one of her relatives so they could scoop up the $10K from Brad...

I mean, she sure as hell wasn't above giving her niece those red high-heel shoes she wore at the GOP convention (courtesy of the GOP along, with the rest of the $150-250K wardrobe budget)to "eBay niece" so she could squeeze a few bucks out of property she didn't even own. What she get, $1200?

Those people are something else! lol

Anonymous Wasilla resident.

9/19/2011 04:19:36 am

"Here is the bottom line about babygate: Sarah did not give birth to Trig. I am a local and I am a proud Democrat. I am no fan of Sarah Palin. I read all of the blogs closely - yours, Phil Munger's, Mudflats, Politicalgates, etc. I met with Joe McGinnis in the summer of 2010. I know a lot of folks who know Sarah. I also tried to help him find sources for his book. But the reason no one has found a source to verify that Sarah gave birth to Trig is because Sarah did not give birth to Trig. It is a simple as that. Yes, it is an interesting and exciting story and it would be a huge scoop if it were somehow proven that Sarah did give birth, but no one can prove that because she did NOT give birth. The real story is simply that she did not give birth to Trig. That's all there is to it. Trig kind of sorta looks like Piper. He is obviously not the biological son of Sarah and Todd because Sarah did not give birth."

Wasilla Proud Mama!

9/19/2011 04:26:33 am

"Here is the bottom line about babygate: Sarah did not give birth to Trig. I am a local and I am a proud Republican. I am a big fan of Sarah Palin. I read all of the blogs closely. I met with Joe McGinnis in the summer of 2010. I know a lot of folks who know Sarah. Lots. I also tried to help him find sources for his book. But the reason no one has found a source to verify that Sarah gave birth to Trig is because Sarah did not give birth to Trig. It is a simple as that! Yes, it is an interesting and exciting story and it would be a huge scoop if it were somehow proven that Sarah did give birth, but no one can prove that because she did NOT give birth. The real story is simply that she did not give birth to Trig. Period. That's all there is to it. Trig kind of looks like Piper. So do a lot of kids. He is obviously not the biological son of Sarah and Todd because Sarah was not pregnant a few years ago. And that is an absolute fact."

daisydem

9/19/2011 04:31:57 am

Love the way you open this post ... it sounds like you are anticipating some good reading time yourself and inviting others to do the same then let it all hang out! Wow. Let's go folks, this may be it (hopefully)!

Karen

9/19/2011 04:33:17 am

@Wasilla Proud Mama!
You forgot something.

...This I know."

LakeLucilleLoon

9/19/2011 04:36:27 am

Yep, as well as resembling Piper, Trig also looks a lot like Levi, so where does this line of reasoning get us? That comment is purely speculation, based on looks, and is not in the least any sort of scientific observation.

The other day AlaskaWTF posted Glen Rice and Willow Palin photos and noted that Willow resembles Glen Rice. If the commenter's argument is correct then certainly Willow Palin must be the child of Sarah Palin and Glen Rice.

Thanks anonymous commenter, by following your train of thought reasoning process you helped us solve another Palin Paternity Mystery!

Also too, Track looks like some of the Menard family, so too, by using your non-scientific, facial observational method of deducing paternity/maternity, we can now with certainty state that Track Palin was indeed fathered by Curtis Menard, Jr.

So many Sarah Palin progeny mysteries solved by one Anonymous Wasillan Democratic Commenter.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 04:56:15 am

Must be one of those Fairy Tale ladies, perhaps the woman who exchanged christmas ornaments in a ornament exchange for a few years, who really never spoke much to S.P., and who never got a condolance card from S.P. when her father died, but knows S.P. oh so very well. Perhaps the Wasillian who talked to McGinniss?

There is also a Fairy Tale troll who posts long, long, long," my 2 cents", over and over and over again at Gryphens. Tedious Fairy Tales, on how important people who move up in the world leave miffed former friends behind because they don't have time. And of course those people are nasty and jealous etc.

Yes my dear we heard you the first time.

Everyone in the world who isn't as fortunate as you are to know the real gracious Sarah Palin is jealous.

So gracious and thoughtful, that she doesn't send a condolance card on the death of a friends father.

I don't consider exchanging cookies in a cookie exchange or xmas ornaments in an ornament exchange as indicative of a "I know all", friendship.

Palin has her sisters, daughters, mother and croney buddies. You scratch my back and I scratch your type friendships.

Ivyfree

9/19/2011 05:05:00 am

"if Sarah actually had a birth certificate that would support her "Wild Ride" bullshit story, she would surely give a copy of it to one of her relatives so they could scoop up the $10K from Brad... "

...so long as she got a kickback.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 05:08:11 am

Great article by Paul Slansky at Huffington Post.

Called "The Imminent Overness of Sarah Palin".

How I wish it was true.

Maybe it is.

myrna nichols

9/19/2011 05:12:56 am

When my kids lost a tooth and put it under the pillow at night, they believed in the Tooth Fairy. The proof was simple. The tooth was gone and in its place, there was some money. The same thing happened when they left a plate of cookies for Santa. The cookies were gone and they got some presents.

Sarah's story of Trig is hard to believe for a number of reasons:
1. Photos of Sarah in previous pregnancies showed her "as big as a house." At 7 months when she was supposed to be expecting Trig, she had a flat abdomen.
2. Any woman, expecting a child who had been diagnosed with special needs, leaking amniotic fluid and going into labor at 8 months would head directly to the nearest emergency room. Sarah chose to give a speech and fly for 12 hours to Alaska.
3. If Sarah was pregnant, she endangered the life of the child and her own health. In choosing to fly when most pregnant women are advised not to fly, she put the other passengers at risk as well.
4. Flight attendants are required to check seat belts at take off, landing and if the seat belt sign comes one during the flight. Coming and returning to Alaska, there were numerous seat belt checks, and there is not one flight attendant who noticed that a famous passenger, The Governor of Alaska, required a seat belt extender or that she was pregnant.
5. Sarah claimed to know ahead of time that she was carrying a child with special needs. Instead of heading to a large hospital in Anchorage with special neonatal facilities, she chose to drive an extra hour to give birth in a small town hospital with no neonatal facilities. Her doctor was not an OB/GYN specialist, but a doctor who specialized in abused kids, and only delivered a few babies a year.
6. Sarah gave speeches where she described Trig as being born at 8 months at MatSu and 7 1/2 months in Anchorage. These speeches are recorded. It is unusual for a mother to forget where she gave birth, and how far along the baby was when it happened.

Not long ago there was an interesting discussion here regarding "legal proof." By now, the only form of legal proof that would settle the matter regarding whether Sarah is Trig's biological mother would be a DNA test. The only way that might come about would be if Sarah was so outraged by the stories regarding Trig that she brought a lawsuit. I doubt that will happen.

Without real proof, people will believe what they want to believe. There is as much reason to doubt Sarah's story as there is in believing that Trig looks like Piper. Trig also looks like a lot of other DS kids, but they are not related. It is easier to put a tooth under a pillow or leave out a plate of cookies, than to prove Trig's birth right now. Maybe the $10,000. reward should go to someone willing to paw through the Palin garbage looking for DNA samples. Or, maybe someone will write something that will force Palin to sue. My guess is that even if her most devoted fans were confronted with the results of a DNA test, they would still insist that Piper and Trig look alike, and that's good enough for them.

Laura Novak link

9/19/2011 05:33:56 am

ManxMamma, THANK YOU for buying and reading Finding Clarity. I appreciate your support so much. I think you will really enjoy it. It's a Bay Area wild rumpus to be sure!

FWIW, here's my "looks like" assessment: Piper looks just like Brad Hanson, right down to the eyes that sort of droop down on the sides. She looks NOTHING like Todd. Trig looks just like Levi. Tripp looks nothing like Levi. Willow is the only one I actually see in Todd. And yes, Track looks just like a Menard.

And trust me, if I could collect that $10K, I would. And then I'd throw a party so you all could come. Maybe on one of those cruise ships that chugs into Juneau every now and then.

curiouser

9/19/2011 05:50:04 am

Excellent interview with Joe McGinniss!

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/2011/sep/19/rogue-searching-real-sarah-palin/

Brad Scharlott

9/19/2011 06:08:21 am

Laura: If you collect the $10,000, it will come out of my retirement funds. Would you push me into eating dog food in my retirement?

Laura Novak link

9/19/2011 06:20:01 am

LOL! But Brad, if I "win" the $10K, then we'll all be on that cruise where we eat Alaskan King Crab or something. Also, too.

Thanks, Curiouser. I just listened to the interview. Joe said some interesting things. Babygate is going to be revisited and get more attention this way.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: her story doesn't add up. Just doesn't add up.

Viola-Alex

9/19/2011 06:21:15 am

@Brad - we'll pass the hat. you'll be fine. (in fact, we'd pass the hat if necessary tomorrow if all this would just end.)

lilly lily

9/19/2011 06:28:21 am

Looks wise,

Track looks like Linda Menard. Tripp like his great grandpa Chuck Heath.

Bristol has Chucks chin, so that is not surprising.

Willow has a bit of a Alaskan Indian look.

I haven't compared Piper with Hanson.

Trig looks like a DS child, period.

I saw an anon who offered $5000 dollars to Brads fund somewhere in grypens blog. Or maybe they weren't serious. They should have contacted Brad if they were.

LakeLucilleLoon

9/19/2011 06:34:01 am

Does anyone on this blog know where to find the Levi and Mercede photo that was taken with their mother holding a king salmon? Levi was around 5 years old and Mercede was 2 or three. Sherri Johnston was holding a large king salmon. In that photo Levi was a blonde child that bears a striking resemblance to Tripp.

I believe the photo was posted both on Mercede's blog and on IM but I can't find it through a search and some of Mercede's photos are broken on her blog.

At any rate, that photo cleared up any question I had regarding Tripp's paternity; he is the spitting image of Levi at around 4 or 5 years old.

Bill in Baltimore

9/19/2011 06:45:38 am

I agree. Trig looks like a DS child period. Here's the bottom line.I live in Baltimore and I can see the White House from my porch.

M C babe

9/19/2011 07:01:30 am

Comparing looks is the least accurate thing one can do when deciding on the maternity and paternity of a child. Trig also looks like Alex Fuller, Kristina Lazzaro (when she visited the family last years), my aunt Josie, this one dude I saw on the train yesterday.

Also, at a down syndrome function Sarah was at last Sept, She and Trig posed with a group of other DS children. Most of them were the sptting image of Trig.

Drop the looks thing. It's a futile effort.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 07:05:12 am

I'm looking forward to glancing through the Mcginniss book at Barnes and Noble.

I looked through all the Palin books at Borders. While I bought C.D's and other items at Borders, plus drank their coffee and ate their lemon curd squares, I only bought books when they were deeply discounted. I get my books off of free and $1 library carts of donated books.

Sorry they closed. It was a good chain.

Limited income so I make my dollars count. Libraries are my main source of supply, and I never pay for political stuff.

Happy that Palin is becoming nothing but gossip fodder. That is where she belongs. Celebrity gossip fluff.

As long as she is on Faux she is dangerous. The Republicans seem to be catering to a very small subgroup of angry people who really don't know what they want.

Sarahs group is even angrier and stranger.

LisanTx

9/19/2011 07:06:15 am

LakeLucilleLoon--The Johnston family pictures were on the News of the World website. I kept the link. Since they went out business, there is no longer any archives (or anything) on their site.

I have two pictures that I can send Laura, since I can't upload them here. Maybe she can post them.

KMR

9/19/2011 07:06:52 am

@ LakeLucilleLoon,
Palingates has several pictures of Levi when he was young here:

http://tinyurl.com/3es4jad

I too think Tripp looks very much as Levi did as a child.

Questions

9/19/2011 07:12:43 am

To LucilleLoon, we know Levi looks like Tripp. No one is disputing that he is his father.

I on the other hand, would like insight into these events:

In May 08, Mercede's actions on myspace were:
1am: wrote to Johnny that "Levi is still mad and goes hunting every night. Today is his brthday"

Later that day the Johnstons visited the Palin home to see Trig

That was the day Mercede posted said pics on myspace.

In June, Mercede discusses with Johnny he and Levi's fallout.

We know Levi dated Lanesia in early 07 (whether it was again or this was when their 3 yr relationship actually ended, we dont know.

We know Bristol was messaging Johnny, as did many girls. During the same time. Some of BRistols messages were written at the same time as Levi's messages to J, so Levi must've known about Bristol's interactions and "crush"

My point: I've never bought the Bristol/Levi relationship that has been fed to us by both camps. THey may have hooked up as teens do freshman year but both parties were pretty carefree teens.

Wasn't is said back in 08 that there was NO signs of earlier dating between the two?

Other evidence to this is:
Lanesia writing in late 07/early 08 complaining about someone f'n her boyfriend . Why would this be addressed more than a year after B and L supposedly first had sex? SERIOUSLY. Nearly two years and she was addressing it in late 07. DOes this make sense to anyone? Why would her friend be talking about beating up Bristol in fall 07 if B and L's relationship started in early 06?

I have never understood this. Teens are by nature self involved. Shit happens, they complain, they move on.

Now, it could be possible that Laneisa didnt know about a sexual relationship then. But, not bloody likely. When I was in school and even just liked a guy, people prematurely called me a slut based on their imaginations of something. Teens are like this.

Desperate Suzie

9/19/2011 07:14:18 am

Lucille Loon, to me, Tripp equally resembles Heather Bruce, Levi and Chuck Sr.

I can almost see him never losing the blond hair. Blond hair is a Heath (not Sheeran) trait. But who knows. I had white blond hair and now my hair is dark dark brown.

Yessir

9/19/2011 07:17:05 am

As a child, Track had Todd's eyes and face - and expression. lol It's a feeling I get. Cant explain why I think that.

He also looks just like Bristol in 1995 in a family photo at the Irondog finish.

Now, he greatly resembles Heath relatives.

ohionana link

9/19/2011 07:17:24 am

I agree that I would not trust any birth certificate that she came up with.

I know squat about DNA...if Trig is Bristol's baby, would he have enough similarity to his grandparents to cast doubt? Sorry..this might sound like a dumb question to those of you more up on such things.

In PA several years ago they convicted a man who had been a serial rapist in a different state years before because someone who had been following a hunch too the straw he had used out of a McDonald's trash can. Surely someone would find $10,000 worth coming up with a way to find out Trig's DNA. While they were at it, it might be fun to test the whole family..as there seems to be growing doubt about all of their parentage.
I hate this, but Sarah brought this all upon herself with her lying and high school mean girl tactics. Nothing about her can be believed any more.

PS...I don't see any resemblance to Piper in Trig. He looks like most DS people. Before you slam me for saying that, I had a DS brother whom I loved with all my heart. But he didn't look like me.

Yessir

9/19/2011 07:24:30 am

Let my clarify my last comment:

Look at the picture of Track and Bristol in Bristol's book (just skim it. Dont buy it.)

I see Todd in Track in that picture. It may be the expression. I don't know.

I see Todd in Bristol but not as much as Willow. Willow has Todd's exact face shape. Bristol looks just like young Sarah with a native twinge.

Also, there's an irondog photo that was in a snow mobile brochure from 95 where Track and Bristol look like twins and all 4 family members look alike. It's the only picture that has made me go, "wow, what a strong family resemblance."

Piper has Todd's pointed chin and in some pics does look like him. But I agree that she looks like a Heath.

I dont see Menard in Track at all but I think that's because Menard's sons have very narrow faces and pointy chins. They looks nothing like Track at any age. Track looks like Chuck Jr in a major way, also like Piper.

nogravity

9/19/2011 07:25:07 am

Anonymous Wasilla resident

Wasilla Proud Mama

SarahPac needs to hire better sock puppets.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 07:26:20 am

The Tea Party domaine name will go for a million dollars?

Who would guess? So make up your own domaine name, who knows. People do make money off of these domaine names.

As far as anyone looking like anyone else. What difference does it make?

DNA is the only proof.

Crazy4you

9/19/2011 07:26:31 am

If you were to run Trig's DNA, you'd need both parents' DNA as well. Comparing the 3 would match easily. Thats the only true way of knowing parentage. Half the parentage wouldnt tell you squat about matenity and I dont think paternity either (but I could be wrong about paternity.

Neiave321

9/19/2011 07:28:19 am

I don't think comparing looks in AK is smart. lolz

Remember, didn't we all conclude that back then, Bristol looked just like Sherry? I know that was said.

And Piper looks like a Palin cousin, Alex.

Brad Scharlott

9/19/2011 07:28:40 am

Maybe we could sweeten the pot, eh? Offer more than $10,000. That's the ticket.

Karen

9/19/2011 07:28:49 am

All the resemblance statements have my head spinning, but while we're at it:

-Track definitely looks like Menard, especially the picture of Curtis' brother when he was around 12 where he's wearing a wool cap
-Trig in the recent pics, the one where Sarah has his arm pinned down and the one with both boys, uncle and nephew together, looks like Levi. Could be Keith's?
-Willow - alright, you'll think I'm crazy, but have you SEEN the picture of her side by side with Glen Rice? ...
-Bristol used to have the Heath chin and now looks like an oddity
-Tripp looks exactly like Mercede in the eyes, so I would think he is a Johnston
-Piper - an unknown, but after her--snipped, burned and cauterized. Nothing coming from there again.

KMR

9/19/2011 07:29:00 am

I wonder what Keith Johnston looked like as a child? Just saying...

Lidia17

9/19/2011 07:37:06 am

Heh, lilly lily, not to rag on you, but

"Sorry they closed."

They closed because you didn't buy anything substantial from them.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not championing big chains… only to say that: "Store X" provided a nice environment, but they didn't get repaid for having provided it.)

We all have to be more attentive to this sort of calculus in the future: what we support, we get; what we starve will die. This works in the positive and in the negative sense.

Lidia17

9/19/2011 07:41:43 am

P.S. Lilly lily, I comPLETELY understand about people's economic constraints.

Just using your example to make a larger point… Hope you will forgive me if I sounded harsh, because it was not intended towards you.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 07:46:08 am

LOL. I don't buy anything but deeply discounted books. My dollars have to cover a lot.

I did buy plenty of C.D.'s DVD's, stationary, cards, coffee, and lemon bars, so I did support Borders.

There were people who were fixtures, who had no place to go, and they plopped themselves down in the armchairs day after day and used it for a social club. Something I didn't do.

I buy local, but I buy with care.

My very fine local libraries supply my book needs. Though I would dip into new political books and skim through at Borders, very quickly, to know I certainly didn't want to own them.

Borders did get my support financially. Just not for their book department.

Evidently Sarah did see Glen Rice again years later according to Alaska WTF.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 08:03:52 am

And I do pay for my libraries through property taxes. $12,000 a year for schools I never used for my own children and other services.

That is the way life is. I pay to educate other peoples children without complaint because I do believe in public education, though we sent our kids to private schools for many years because a few of the teachers weren't worth a damn, and the private schools were better for my own kids.

As far as the people sitting all day and evening in Borders. There are some who parked themselves anywhere that was comfortable because they have no life for one reason or another. Borders became a second home for them. I would stop buy every few weeks, and it was always the same people sitting, socializing and schmoozing, even dozing away or on their computers. And not very appealing people. Like a Greyhound bus terminal.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 08:18:47 am

Our property taxes are the highest in the U.S.. Keeps me poor.

Ottoline

9/19/2011 08:19:38 am

People say my dog looks a lot like me, but I didn't give birth to him. Even if I did, you can't prove it.

gigi

9/19/2011 08:23:10 am

I am curious as to whether Todd's parents are still alive and if they have ever spoke with anyone? I don't ever remember reading anything if they have in the past.
Didn't Sarah and Todd's mother run for the same office at one time?

FrostyAK

9/19/2011 08:23:50 am

Listened to Joe McG's radio interview. I like that he is calm, collected, and doesn't seem to get flustered - unlike the subject of his most recent book. And it seems he doesn't get the questions in advance and then need to use a teleprompter to keep him from spewing word salad.

Radio interviews don't seem to be highly edited, like those on tv (Today Show). Will be interested to see what the future tv interviews are like.

On the 'looks like' refrain. Many fraternal twins look nothing like each other or their parents. Their DNA however tells a different story.

Anyone notice the pattern of silence when the sh!t hits the fan in palinville, when they cannot refute the facts? Well, other than the bluster written by the PAC and spewed out as being from Toad... Not denying the facts, just attacking the messenger.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 08:32:49 am

Now that the initial reviews are in panning McGinnis we will see how his sales figures go at Amazon, plus the reviews by readers not reporters.

I think the NYTimes Review was stupid. And I usually do not find the NYTimes at all stupid.

The problem is that Palin has no substance to nail. It is all scandal naturally it sounds like a Kitty Kelly book.

What you going to print, her reams of ghosted facebook articles? When she speaks for herself it is nonsense, like her Paul Revere spiel.

And if her detracters in Wasilla are frightened what can he do? They spill the beans and he couldn't print a lot of what they told him according to his blog.

curiouser

9/19/2011 08:36:30 am

Brad - I'm not sure if you were being facetious but I do like the idea of sweetening the pot.

lilly lily

9/19/2011 09:08:06 am

LOL. I just stopped by one of the libraries I frequent, and put in a hold on the McGinniss book. I'll be the first, (IF they get it in). Prime Republican territory, they might not buy it at all, everyones high blood pressure will escalate.

Will put a hold on it at other libraries which are not so high in the instep.

LOL. These are great libraries regardless.

comeonpeople

9/19/2011 09:18:16 am

@Brad, I think you should try to sweeten the money pot. I predict if you ask for donations you would get quite a bit. wonder how high we could go.
@WillowvPalin: how much do you want honey to spill the beans and get out??

lilly lily

9/19/2011 09:25:58 am

Washington Post just printed up a review on Levi Johnston and his book.

Well, it sounds like young love at first site for Bristol in her soft pink sweater and curves.

I'm not into harlequin romance, but I have read a fine ones last week by someone called C. James. Easy reading, but good psychologial studies.

I'm afraid Levi and his love affair seem a little sappy.

It ends badly, but you all know that much.

nancydrewed link

9/19/2011 09:39:08 am

Frankly, I'm hoping 'Fred' turns out to be Kitty Kelley. She wrote a fascinating piece for "The American Scholar" (really) not too long ago about her metaphorical run-ins with people like Oprah, Frank Sinatra and Nancy Reagan while doing research for her books. "Unauthorized, but Not Untrue; The real story of a biographer in a celebrity culture of public denials, media timidity, and legal threats" Winter 2011.

http://theamericanscholar.org/unauthorized-but-not-untrue/

curiouser

9/19/2011 09:51:30 am

Selma Blair is another one who actually looks postpartum about 1-1/2 months after delivery and doesn't appear to have gained excess weight during the pregnancy.
http://tinyurl.com/42wbwwa

The baby was born July 25, weighing 7lb. 12 oz. and was apparently over a week late.
http://tinyurl.com/3mgzza4

FrostyAK

9/19/2011 09:54:26 am

There would be no reason for people to write biographies if they had to be 'authorized'. That would leave only autobiographies ghost written by others. And we KNOW where that can lead.

If we want the truth, old school investigative journalists are the ones who should be writing non-fiction. If we want myths/lies, why read non-fiction? We can tell our own whoppers.

LakeLucilleLoon

9/19/2011 10:20:34 am

Thanks KMR, they were the photos that I remembered seeing. Thanks for digging those up. These people live only a few miles down the street from me, as do the Palins, but neither family is one that I've ever come in contact with in social situations, except for then Gov Sarah speaking at our Chamber meeting in Palmer.

I'm just one of those Valley people that didn't run into Johnston's or Palins, or maybe I did. Maybe they were the snowmachining or 4-wheeling people that ruined some of my hikes or cross country skiing trips!

nancydrewed link

9/19/2011 10:30:54 am

I neglected to mention that "The American Scholar" is the journal published by Phi Beta Kappa. Wouldn't that be rich? Kitty Kelley, whose work was published in a journal put out by the honors organization to which real college graduates who excel are invited to join, writes up the quitter take-out. And btw, Kelley is from the region where quitter claims to have earned her degree. If she didn't, Kelley has plenty of local contacts to supply her with the truth.

Probably a wish too far, but I'd sure love it. Always thought Palin was the perfect Kelley project. The woman is tough as nails and would spit right back at the Palins.

9/19/2011 10:32:36 am

@Headset, LOL!
@Yessir: nice try but go away please. Willow is the only Palin offspring, and I use the term loosely, who looks remotely like Tawd; Bristol doesn't much, but one can believe it's because the Chuckie genes came through especially stongly. Track and Piper, forget it.

Banyan

9/19/2011 10:46:50 am

Please, everyone, if you haven't done so already, listen to the radio interview of Joe McGinniss that "curiouser" and Laura have recommended!

Pay particular attention to the part about Mary Glazier and her Prayer Warriors who first declared Sarah to be on a Mission from God to establish Dominionist Biblical Law in the United States. Sarah's Dominionist grooming for higher office was well under way by the mid-1990s.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/2011/sep/19/rogue-searching-real-sarah-palin/

Mary Glazier and her Prayer Warriors have, among other things, claimed credit for the deaths of Princess Diana and Mother Theresa.

And thank you to Floyd M. Orr for taking the Fundie whack-jobs seriously in your book and blog! I think this is why Sarah is frightened of your book.

lidia17

9/19/2011 10:57:52 am

Lilly lily, I understand about the libraries/Borders. It's a sad phenomenon, because we have made "the commons" a place where you have to pay to play, essentially.

Property taxes are indeed outrageous. I think there is a HUGE bubble in education and town services, much as there have been bubbles in housing and health care.

It's not conceivable that a house worth $200k would have a $5k annual tax bill, and yet in the NE it's apparently so, with mil rates approaching and over 2% p.a. In a person's lifetime on owner will have paid twice the value of the house to the town, at that rate. There's a lot of waste and corruption, and much town infrastructure is WAY overbuilt (while other aspects crumble).

What this ends up being is a kind of poll tax, because everyone has to live SOMEwhere, and you end up paying the property tax indirectly even if you are renting.

I've always been a democrat, but towns are going to have to scale way back on the Olympic pools and football stadiums and so forth for public schools, among other things.

I want to move back to the US for family reasons, but I can tell you that in Italy property tax is pretty low. The schools run six days a week, while any elaborate American-style extra-curricular activities are private and up to the family (and much cheaper than in the US). The main sport of soccer in general is pretty cheap with respect to, say, football or hockey!

There's a high value-added-tax of 20% (soon to be 21%) on most consumer items and on services, along with high energy and gasoline taxes, but we don't have to pay separately for health insurance. I can foresee that those two baseline costs (prop. tax and health ins. if we can get it) would run us at least $20k combined yearly after taxes in the US, a sum we can't really afford in the long term.

Globally speaking, EVERYthing is going to have to scale back. The oil/energy situation means we are facing a grand denouement which no politician in any country is willing to confront seriously or reveal to us. We are going to have to muddle through on our own, as our elected representatives and "betters" continue to throw money away on wars, on making criminal banksters "whole", and on misguided "jobs" initiatives.

Lidia17

9/19/2011 11:00:32 am

It would be great if Kitty Kelley were to take on Babygate, though my hopes have always leaned towards Matt Taibbi.

brigid

9/19/2011 11:16:38 am

I saw that comment on IM. I then asked her if she'd been in the delivery room. lol

Laura Novak link

9/19/2011 11:16:59 am

That is an excellent article by Kitty Kelley. I have always enjoyed her books. So readable and she is so dependable as an author. I never doubt that she has crossed every T because I've read other articles about her research methods.

What is chilling is Harrison Salisbury (one of my all time favorite historians who I actually had dinner with once!), his evaluation of the NYT's behavior during the Ronnie and Nancy years. He could be talking about the media's attention to Palin. Same underlying disease.

Laura Novak link

9/19/2011 11:18:03 am

And on another note, I just remembered something: does anyone else recall Joe saying that in his book he interviews one person that no one else has? I recall wondering if it was CBJ or a family member or McCain. I'm fairly certain he wrote that. I look forward to figuring out who it might be!

FrostyAK

9/19/2011 11:23:12 am

IMO, the Babygate book would be much more thoroughly researched, and possibly better accepted, if a woman wrote it. Unless the author is also a physician. Women tend to have fewer 'ick' reactions in that realm than do men.

The main audience will be women anyway...

Tom link

9/19/2011 11:51:58 am

I just watched the Piers Morgan CNN interview. I won't be tuning in to his show again.

Morgan, like most of the reviews, is more interested in the sordid details that Joe included. They're not interested in the meat of the book. Morgan didn't read the it.

Joe can't be happy about that appearance.

curiouser

9/19/2011 11:59:05 am

Laura - I don't recall Joe saying he had a new source. Could it be Catherine Taylor, his landlord? Could it be someone related to her religious background? I was so impressed at the extent of his kowledge about Palin's relationship with Mary Glazier. It went beyond what Bruce Wilson has covered about Palin's ties to the NAR.

McGinniss just finished his interview on Piers Morgan. I'm using extreme self-control to keep from calling Piers derogatory names. It was a short interview which Piers used, not to get information from Joe about Palin or the book, but to bash the messenger. He completely focused on the salacious stories and his view of the inappropriateness of Joe moving next door to the Palins.

AliCat

9/19/2011 12:15:20 pm

I am right there with you Tom and Curiouser! I couldn't finish watching it.
What an unbelievable horses a**. I hope the other interviews go better but I don't have a lot of hope left.

NSG

9/19/2011 12:18:24 pm

I agree about the frustrations of Morgan's interview with McGinniss.

That said, keep in mind that he was one of Rupert's boys as editor of News of the World in the 90s, so ethical journalism and pursuit of facts is likely not his thing.

Blergh.

Tom link

9/19/2011 12:52:38 pm

I'm not optimistic about the rest of Joe's interviews. With the exception of Phil Munger's review (which, forgive me Phil, less than no one will read) and the radio interview with WNYC all anyone's interested in is Rice/Palin sex, cocaine on barrels and living next door. That was the extent of Morgan's CNN interview. Morgan didn't need JOe to show up.

I'll admit that I'm a person who gets annoyed easily and I've about had it with the whole business. These people get away with murder, possibly literally. The race, even the little bitty race they probably cheated, at least had a crony release a doctored phto. How can this be allowed to persist. I can't f'in take it.

And the4n there's Weeble staring at the back of my head all the time, waiting to pounce.

curiouser

9/19/2011 12:58:06 pm

NSG - I know! How ironic for Morgan to denigrate tabloid journalism and accuse Joe of engaging in such. Grrrr.

Yessir

9/19/2011 12:58:45 pm

Wow, jk, what side of th ebed did you wake up on this morning? Geez, exert an opnion and get denounced immediately???

Looks are subjective. I personally see Todd in Piper slightly, though I see more Heath, Same for Track. Bristol looked just like Todd as a child. Remember the photo of Todd, Bristol and possibly LAuden on the blue couch? Just like him.

Jose

9/19/2011 01:02:23 pm

Todd's biological parents are alive, yes. Both were featured in SPA. Blanche lives in Dillingham and Jim lives in Wasilla.

Jose

9/19/2011 01:05:11 pm

Jose, But remember, there's major alcoholism in Todd's family. Possibly a village thing? idk but that would explain the rough early life Sarah and Bristol hint at.

It was pretty known that Todd liked Sarah's family for the stability. And both teen were quiet, laid back and well liked.

The Wasilla girls was drawn to Todd.

Exp:Nov.05/08

9/19/2011 01:12:22 pm

I wasn't impressed with Morgan tonight either. But I thought Joe held his own, despite being interrupted so many times, and having to argue semantics.

I wonder what excerpts the media will decide we should pay attention to next, once The Rogue is released tomorrow. The Rice thing and cocaine use thing are just about played out (naturally - it's been almost a week!), and there are more 'salacious' details to come.

Will they try to steer the public away from chapter 19? Or will they try to tarnish Joe's credibility before readers get to the parts about the MSM being too lazy or ignorant or easily swayed or readily bamboozled (any, all) to investigate a massive hoax on the electorate during an election?

Tom link

9/19/2011 01:34:19 pm

All this talk about who looks like who and no she/he doesn't, he/she looks like so and so ---must this go on. Please, girls (even if you're boys), you're wicked smart. You're beautiful. Stop it. How did I suddenly get stuck at a baby shower.

SLQ

9/19/2011 01:42:51 pm

Tom, it looks to me like you've been stuck at a trollfest. The commenters putting all the emphasis on who looks like who are most likely trolls, as is the one spreading the fairy tale that "both teens were well-liked" and "Todd liked Sarah for her WONDERFUL family."

Rationalist

9/19/2011 01:46:38 pm

Piers Morgan is a douche. He actually asked Colion Firth which of his leading ladies was the hottest to kiss. Firth (swoon) was too gentlemanly to answer. Then Morgan went on to make some crass comment about the prospect of what he'd do if Scarlett Johannson were laid out before him...Eck.

I just got an email that my download of The Rogue is ready! See you later, everyone!

Anonfornow

9/19/2011 02:00:42 pm

Wow, the troll is frantically trying to convince us in multiple personas that *of course* Sarah's kids are all Todd's. Nice try, sweetie.

Track is a Menard, no doubt about it. Bristol is practically cloned from Chuckie, poor kid, so she could be anyone's, but we'll let Todd claim her. Willow has some serious mixed blood in her, and no, 1/16 native does not account for it. Piper is a rather generic looking child and could be Brad's, or she could be Menard's, too.

Remember how Curtis was in Sarah's office the day before he died, yelling at her about the way she was neglecting her kids? That has always made me suspect that he had slipped more than one child into the Palin nest. Will we ever know? Probably not. Good thing they have money; all those kids are going to need years of therapy.

Ruth

9/19/2011 02:57:51 pm

I like the wanted poster for Trig, but what I'd really like to see is a missing child poster for poor Ruffles. Where is he? When was the last time anybody saw him? Is he stuck in an institution somewhere? Did someone else adopt him? Did SP just borrow him from someone and then give him back like an old sweater? That's another place to dig for information.

Tom link

9/19/2011 03:00:41 pm

Palin's gonna come out of this Sept. onslaught maybe not unscathed, but not terribly damaged. Soon she'll be on a stage somewhere featuring that hideous chin-flex tic of hers.

In the movies the devil gets defeated and we applaud. In life the devil gets rewarded and we shrug. Makes me sick.

V ictoria link

9/19/2011 06:18:16 pm

@Ruth - yes, that's what we need to do - find Ruffles. A child about 3.5 years old now, with deformed ears. Find the child, trace its history and we may have the smoking gun.

comeonpeople

9/19/2011 08:56:05 pm

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannakuh., etc etc. Today is a long anticipated day with hopefully a very nice gift coming for everyone. I preordered my book months ago, but not sure if it arrives today or in the next few with shipping...can't remember what I chose!

Exp:Nov.05/08

9/19/2011 10:11:25 pm

My morning coffee just got sweeter - I was able to catch Joe McG just now interviewed on CNN. Can't remember the names of the two women interviewing him. Highlights:

Sarah was very friendly to the criminals who lived next door before Joe - he wonders why she had such a problem with him being there, and not them.
They asked him about how he thinks she 'faked one of her pregnancies' - he said he didn't have an opinion, he just thinks the media should have asked more questions about it based on her own words.
He said Sarah is quoted on SPA that she should drill a hole in Joe's fence, so she can spy on HIM!
They kept saying "salacious', 'gossipy', 'anonymous sources' (he corrected them on that part and said he got about seventy people to use thier names - said the anonymous sources are very afraid of the Palins because they 'threaten' people, to the point that they have no idea what will happen if they talk).
They said how strange it was for him to move next door, and maybe that Palin was right to react the way she did to his presence. He said he thought her unfriendly behaviour as a neighbour was much stranger than him moving in next door to write his book.
Mentioned Dominionism and how these more salacious details were indicative of a contradiction in how she says she lives, and how she actually lives.
Reiterated that The Enquirer got an advanced copy and released the more gossipy excerpts from 20 pages - reminds us that there are 300 more :)

When asked will she run, he said he hoped so, but didn't think she would. They asked, you hope so? He said, yes, it'd be great for his book. But doesn't think she'll run.

Joe is blasting right through the implications that he is a gossip just trying to smear her. It's going to be an interesting week!

lazrgrl

9/19/2011 10:13:48 pm

Tom, I agree. As a teen people were telling me I looked just like Liza Minnelli and were we related. Really? Because we're both Italian? Except my family was dirt poor and my sense of fashion and singing talent would fit in a very small pinkie thimble. Please, let's stop this "looks like"- better to concentrate on less subjective things lest we start looking like tin-hats. (P.S. Now I look like my grandmother at 65 - eeesh!)

Lisa

9/19/2011 10:17:13 pm

I am sorry everyone if you wasted money on Levi's obvious book of fiction.

The truly sad thing is, not only does he make Bristol's book extra believable, but I'm not sure he would even realize that this piece of trash contradicts pretty much everything he has ever said AND actual events.

Are his Ghosts actually mentally handicapped? it's like they took every snide comment, cliche and rumor and distorted them timed 1000. They weirdly paint a picture of a boy who sounds like he's the God of the universe, who knows all, who's quick witted and sharp.

Just from watching him for 3o seconds and hearing him speak a sentence, we know this isn't true. I even take issue with his so called devotion to his family. He abandoned his mother. He turned his back on them more than once.
He doesn't reference things in the past that prove the Palin are closer than he portrays. Je literally created a fictional depiction of them to make him appear, I don't even know. Because nothing is believable.

Now I am off to bleach my brain. I feel like it gave me a tumor.

Lisa

9/19/2011 10:19:22 pm

Ok, stop with the condescending language. 'Sweetie" is not a term of endearment when you're looking down on someone. Screw off.

Rationalist

9/19/2011 11:42:50 pm

well into the book...

Check out this review!

http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/its-free-blog/2011/sep/19/opinion-why-do-we-care-about-palin-player-heres-why/

DebinOH

9/19/2011 11:55:18 pm

I don't like talking about the kids much but I have always wondered why Track has always been able to stay out of the fray. Meaning that SP seems to have had the girls out there front and center at as many events as possible (I do think she uses them so people don't ask her hard questions & so that people think she is such a family oriented mother).

I agree though that I think Track looks so much like the Menard's it is uncanny. However that being said it seems like a lot of people look alike up there in Wasilla. Strange place that is for sure. No offense to anyone who lives there;)

9/20/2011 12:47:23 am

Exp:Nov.05/0 - thanks for the CNN recap. I missed it. Pretty exciting that they are pulling the Babygate information into the interviews - I have to think at least some of them have been aware of the strangeness surrounding Sarah's pregnancy story. It's a good thing!

9/20/2011 01:20:11 am

@Ruth. Blade at ShesNoHockeyMom did a good Missing poster for Ruffles soon after she started her blog.

Played Out Palin

9/20/2011 01:42:15 am

@DebinOH
I share your wish that we could just leave the kids out of it. The problem is Palin keeps dragging them back in as her human shields.

Remember back in October of '08 when she took the ice at a Philadelphia Flyers hockey game and the crowd was less than polite ?

Even Fake News reported "“The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, ‘How dare they boo Piper!‘”

Speaking as one who used drugs to survive a dysfunctional family, Oxycontin is highly effective for fray avoidance and may have helped Track to both dull his pain and perfect his loose cannon imitation. Human shields are useless if they're unreliable.

And I think whatever evidence of paternal lineage one might hope to glean from Track's face was masked long ago by the rage and terror of an emotionally abused child.

Tom link

9/20/2011 01:58:48 am

Will Kindles and Nooks make libraries obsolete? Border's has closed. How's Barnes and Noble stores doing? Did Amazon put Border's out of business? There's a used book store in ANC called Tidal Wave that was busy the one time I went there. What's going to happen to hard copy?

I asked these questions because I read of so many people getting Joe's book electronically (I guess).

Libraries keep me sane (barely).

Viola-Alex

9/20/2011 02:09:39 am

@ Tom. I wrote a feature story on my branch library in San Diego a few years ago. It was quite a hit because I addressed the issues of why libraries matter. Oddly, what may save them (for others not like us) is that they provide computers to those without. No one else does that. Today, my old branch library (I've moved and have a different one) is THRIVING. The article gave the staff a boost, and made it for a bit, a small celebrity.

Libraries are the only thing left in this country, besides city and some county parks, that are free and open to all. The last vestige of a true democracy.

Today I'm reading Joe's book on my PC Kindle app, but I'm not enjoying the experience. Just binging on information, as fast as I can hit the arrow forward.

Tom link

9/20/2011 02:45:09 am

Viola,

Ultimately, I think, our world is going to suffer from the extremely fast pace of technological innovation over the last twenty years. Everything is way too easy. And it's not us, at least me, because I had it hard when I grew up and even the people who were well off then, things for them were no where near as extravagant as today. Poor isn't the same as it used to be here. It's better based on my experience of being poor growing up (talking about USA only).

Let me know the next time you see kids playing all day with the big, empty refrigerator box discarded by the lucky neighbors up the street. We'd have worn that box out. Big, empty boxes aren't fun anymore.

Stop by, Viola, we'll playy some step-ball (though you probably throw like a girl).

DebinOH

9/20/2011 03:13:17 am

PlayedoutPalin - I agree that she is the one who puts the kids on stage and yes she obviously uses them all the time as a shield. This is why it drives me INSANE when the bots call her a good mother. Who would ever do this to their children?

Then the bots say that all this just makes the Palins closer & makes them just laugh & laugh & laugh. IF this is true it makes them even more insane. Do they know how much damage this is doing to their kids?

This family needs some good counseling because I see a lot of problems in the future for Piper. She was NOT a happy little girl on the bus vacation & I still can't get over the fact that she let the reporters hold Piper back while they were sticking their mics in her face. If someone did that to my kid I would have given them a good piece of my mind.

If the things she does make her a good mother then my god most of us must have been OUTSTANDING+++++++++ mothers;)

DebinOH

9/20/2011 03:20:33 am

Viola, I used to read library books all the time. I haven't been able to read for about 7 years because I can't read the text because the font is too small for my tired eyes. After looking all day at a computer screen I have to adjust my Kindle font sometimes twice. Yikes!

For me Kindle has been one of the best inventions ever.

lillly lily

9/20/2011 03:44:44 am

The Palin family is a dead end street, but the media keep milking the cow.

Dislike Piers Morgan and saw that Morgan did a job on Mcginniss, wanted to discuss a few things that were salacious, sex and drugs etc? I didn't watch and won't. Joe McGinniss needs to learn how to circumvent this kind of interviewer.

Might be that authors should walk out on this schmuck more often.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/20/2011 04:02:36 am

This is for Tom and all the rest here who are 'sick and tired, 'fed up', 'pissed off' and 'disgusted' .....

Andrew Sullivan smacks down the MSM in a way only he can:

"Unattributed Crap"

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/unattributed-crap.html

Thanks, Andrew, I needed that.

Laura Novak link

9/20/2011 04:17:26 am

Thanks, Sharon. I needed that. And everyone needs to read her link from Sullivan. He's mad as hell and it's not getting any better folks. Glad Joe is the experienced, sophisticated and skilled author/journalist that he is to handle these buffoons who call themselves the MSM.

anonfornow

9/20/2011 04:18:44 am

Brad, just read your article at Business Insider. It's excellent. But I would like to point out that, far from it being a thousand times more likely that Sarah is Trig's birth mother rather than Bristol, the odds actually favor Bristol as the birth mother.

It is far, far more likely that a 16 year old will get pregnant in the first place. Plus an astonishing number of DS babies are actually born to teenagers mothers; more than 50% are born to mothers under the age of 30. It's a fallacy that DS children are only born to aged mothers.

nancydrewed link

9/20/2011 04:33:14 am

Well, Andrew Sullivan has just decked the Villagers! Can't wait to watch them all scurrying around trying the "explain" themselves. Going to be utterly insufferable.

Oh, and trolls. You're provincialism is showing.

nancydrewed link

9/20/2011 04:54:31 am

It might be funny, were the matter not so serious. Our anointed-insider Very Serious People Press is busy creating material for a sequel to "The Rogue" for whomever wants to tackle it. "American Journalism Fails 2.0".

Also, Piers Morgan seems to be nightly proof that a British accent can give even the mediocre a spot on the American stage. We're so overly impressed. Guy is a self-important goofball with a nice contract.

Melly

9/20/2011 05:22:37 am

Brad, your article on BInsider is superbly written. Thank you so much, and thank you Laura for letting me say thanks thorough your site.

Am I not correct that Palin said not a word about amniotic fluid leak in Going Rogue, only in the interview after the wild ride? It's obviously easy to infer, but not from GR specifically.

Laura Novak link

9/20/2011 05:56:36 am

Melly, you remind me once again how odd it is that her story about Trig's birth changed like the wind. I have one story about my son's gestation and birth. ONE. It's never changed and let me tell you it is complicated!! Forget the amniotic fluid for a moment. I would never ever have admitted to (or bragged about) flying with contractions or fluid leaking. If there's one thing I would have lied about, it would have been how labor started once I was home "because the baby was in distress." that would have been a crowd pleaser and a heart tugger. But this other rubbish? Well, pure rubbish!

lilly lily

9/20/2011 06:39:30 am

T.V. and real Journalism?

WHY? WHY has Sarah Palin been given the golden pass?

Faux News and all their puppets and hacks suck the most and we know their bosses and their agend

Ottoline

9/20/2011 06:39:43 am

You are invited to Pallottine's birthday party over at Palingates:

http://palingates.blogspot.com/2011/09/open-thread-tuesday_20.html#disqus_thread

Come wish him a happy B-day, and there's cake!

Dis Gusted

9/20/2011 06:54:51 am

At any rate, that photo cleared up any question I had regarding Tripp's paternity; he is the spitting image of Levi at around 4 or 5 years old.

me too. Tripp looks like Levi - he could most definitely be Levi's brother. IMO Keith Johnston is the father of Tripp by Bristol. The child was born much earlier than December 2008.

Bristol was padded for the RNC to look pregnant. She did not look pregnant the week before nor months after.

Regor

9/20/2011 08:00:13 am

How very strange when we first saw the word 'thrice' from ANOM over at IM describing the number of babies Bristol has had. Many thought that was the first time they had seen the word in modern day print. Then in reading Joe's book last night, there it was again when he is describing Mayor Verne Rupright "He's a thrice-married pack-a-day smoker..."

Strange to see that word again?

Fast read, now at 45% on the Kindle.

search4more

9/20/2011 08:08:03 am

yesterday I read a review of Levi's book at Politicalgates. It had a long section from the book in the review. I think I'm remembering it correctly. He said that she was leaking spots of fluid for a month, or at least many weeks. Here we go:

>"Sarah had been telling Bristol during the past month that her water was leaking once or twice a day, in drops."

What the hell? Is that possible? Anyone medically trained here? Why would she....what were...huh...waaa?

I apologise if this has been mentioned above. I only read the bottom comments today because......well I'm tired today and it takes ages to read down. ;-P

Floyd M. Orr link

9/20/2011 08:12:50 am

Regor, with all due respect, first of all, the simple one-time usage of one particular word means nothing. Secondly, I can absolutely assure you that Joe McG is NOT the legendary Anon, and there are many reasons for this. Please quit looking a gift horse (Anon) in the mouth. If you wish to try to guess the identity of Fred, go right ahead. That's another story.

ProChoiceGrandma

9/20/2011 08:15:29 am

The person who left the comment at IM claiming that Sarah gave birth to Trig said "Trig looks just like Piper. He is obviously the biological son of Sarah and Todd."

Well, isn't it peculiar that Piper is the spitting image of Curtis Menard Jr's daughter:

http://tinyurl.com/44bllh3

Here are the photo comparisons of Track and Curtis Menard Jr. Track was born on 4-20-89:

http://palingates.blogspot.com/2010/01/track-palin-and-curtis-menard-jr-new.html

From pg 115 of Lorenzo Bennet's book "Trailblazer':

"<b>Just before his death</b>, Curtis went to visit Sarah in the mayor's office and confronted her about something personal. He felt her career might be getting in the way of raising her children. "Curtis was an old-fashioned kind of guy, and he was concerned that Sarah was juggling being a mom of young children while in office," Carole said. "It's not that the kids were in danger, but he was more conservative and appreciated a mom that stayed home. But they were friends enough that he felt he could go and talk to her about it.""

Hmmm, ya think maybe Curtis Menard misjudged his friendship with Sarah and ought not to have criticized her parenting?? He died in a plane crash in August 2001 - the cause was water in the gas tank. Piper was born in March 2001 and would have been about 5 months old when Curtis died. Makes you wonder if his conversation with Sarah occurred before or after Sarah said "Take this fuckin' baby" (referring to Piper) and slid the carrier in the door. I think Curtis was concerned for Track AND Piper, as I believe both are his biological children.

Laura Novak link

9/20/2011 08:22:17 am

Regor, I appreciate you pointing this out. Very interesting indeed.

Search4More - I have no idea if you can drop droplets of amniotic fluid. Where is Allie RN when we need her? perhaps she'll check in. I'll also, too, ask someone I know.

Seems to me if there's a leak, then there's a way for bacteria to get up there. But what do I know?

search4more

9/20/2011 08:41:11 am

You certainly wouldn't be travelling under that circumstance if it's possible.

....unless. I suppose if there is actually a real condition where that can happen. Palin could have known about it and have sought medical advice about it. That would then explain why she was unconcerned about leaking fluid in Texas. If she had been leaking for a time, why would she expect that a little more meant an imminent birth? The question would then be though, why did they have to induce the pregnancy at the hospital?

Could it be that they were waiting for the baby to become developed enough that it could survive? Maybe there was some kind of trade off where it was less risky to wait even though there was some kind of small tear. Nothings makes sense. My head hurts.

...Of course it may just all be made up. :-) ....we will never know the truth I fear.

Luddy

9/20/2011 09:06:22 am

Women can experience increased discharge at anytime during pregnancy, and many note it toward the end (third trimester).

Known leakage of amniotic fluid should be reported to health care provider who would take proper precautions (nothing put in the vagina, STERILE speculum exams,(not done unless absolutely necessary)). Many moms with true leaks are put in the hospital to attempt to control risk of infection and deal with precipitous delivery.

Banyan

9/20/2011 09:11:40 am

@ Anonfornow

Yes, more babies are born to younger women, and more DS babies are born to younger women.

But, if you take two individuals -- in this case Sarah and Bristol -- given their respective ages and have each conceive a baby.

Bristol would have a 1 in 1000 chance of having a DS baby. Sarah would have a 1 in 10 (more or less) chance.

The odds against Bristol having a DS baby are huge -- especially given the perfect timing and the usefulness of Trig as a political prop. I think Brad has it right.

Also, it important to note, that more DS babies are born to younger women because older women, being at much higher risk of conceiving babies with this condition, are checked prenatally and can choose to abort. Most (around 90%) choose abortion when DS is discovered.

All pregnant women now have access to a triple screen blood test which serves as an early warning of unspecified pregnancy trouble. Women who test positive on that test can then have further specific testing for DS and abort if they choose, so the rate may now be coming down for younger women as well.

Sarah, and her religious/political handlers were using Trig as an "object lesson" to protest this trend and get Sarah, a Dominionist, elected VP, only a heart beat away from John McCain.

Smirnonn

9/20/2011 09:16:04 am

Finished Joe's book this afternoon. Excellent read!! I highly recommend it. Great job, Mr. McGuinness!!

Really strange how, for the most part, the MSM dismisses it without even reading it. I feel that the MSM will NOT dig into the paylin mess until they're forced to - until there's overwhelming, in-ignorable, incontrovertible proof of serious wrongdoing.

The MSM has helped create paylin's celebrity. At the same time, they've turned a blind eye to her transgressions. I've felt for a while now that true journalism is all but dead in the MSM, with a few notable exceptions like Matt Tiabbi. Thankfully we have our blogs like Laura's and Gryphen's to keep the search for truth alive.

Lynn

9/20/2011 09:19:29 am

Thrice- I'm reminded of Matt Foley. "I am 34 tears old. I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van down by the river." my favorite Chris Farley character.

I finished The Rogue, and liked it, but felt like I had read some of it a many times over between the other books and blogs. The individuals who went on the record were fascinating, though, and I like the way he writes.

As for libraries, I am not worried. They are already evolving to adapt to different ways of disseminating information.Our county has an unemployment rate of 16% and the library is packed every day.

Palin.

Never in my life did I think I'd have spent this
many hours pondering amniotic fluid, water bras, fake glasses, fake pregnancy,fake ethics, and mystery infants. I need closure

search4more

9/20/2011 09:25:59 am

@Luddy,

Your pretty much on a loser when you start the conversation about leaking fluids I think. As a guy I will happily talk about leaking amniotic fluid. Change the terminology and start talking about "discharges" though and I'm beginning to feel some discomfort. It's one of the main reasons this story isn't discussed by the media. You can show a birth video openly on TV. You can show breast feeding. It's all cool. You can't talk about vaginal discharges though. That's a taboo.

search4more

9/20/2011 09:29:56 am

if only babies cam through a 3rd hole not connected with sex or anything else icky then this story would have broken years ago. ;-)

...on a totally unrelated side note. chickens only have one orifice apart from their mouths. ponder that next time you eat an egg. ;-P

Sharon_Too_Also

9/20/2011 09:36:13 am

I'm about a third of the way through the book and it is a good read ..... however, I expected nothing less.

Assessing the impact of this book is not something I think we can not do on it's first day out. I think it's greatest value will be the fact that it's HERE. It's now in the atmosphere and can be referred to, quoted from and generally used in a way that a blog post (unfortunately) never will be.

Sarah will eventually have to show her face again and that face is going to be associated with many revelations - titillating and otherwise. She will have to become even more insular because so much more will be coming at her.

It's a great read and I have hope that it also has consequences.

Laura Novak link

9/20/2011 09:53:03 am

Search4More - gasp. I had no idea.

Just watched Joe on Hardball. He did a great job. He's a valuable journalist in our country. And Sharon, I can't wait for mine to arrive!

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/

Rationalist

9/20/2011 10:06:10 am

Wait, what? Levi's book says that Bristol told him her mother's water had been leaking for a month?

How can this not be a deliberate attempt by the Palins to beef up the ridiculous Wild Ride story?

curiouser

9/20/2011 10:07:20 am

Sharon_Too_Also - Sarah is slated to be on Hannity tonight to discuss the GOP candidates and Pres. Obama's jobs plan. Could be interesting...but I'm still not even tempted to watch.

My book has been riding around since 7am and hasn't made it to my door yet. I, too, hope it will set off long-term consequences.

search4more

9/20/2011 10:40:06 am

Ah! Sarah is doing interviews at the moment too. That is a very good thing. ...OK, so why did Piers Morgan interview go the way it did? ...The questions about Joe moving in next to Sarah are obvious to ask, but also each interviewer is affected by what everyone writes and says about the book. If 2 days before the interview there had been many stories about the 1984 paedophile thing, then Morgan would have asked Joe about that. There weren't though so he didn't. No one is going to do exhaustive research if they have many guests each night. You probably won't be able to even read the book. Your researcher will give you the cribs notes and tell you what people are talking about at the moment. If your into ratings then you'll talk about the controversial things currently being discussed by the media.

....OK that was a long winded paragraph. Now my point:

If Joe Mcguiness in his interviews challenges Palin to answer questions, then with the way the media works, these questions will be asked of Palin in her interviews. ...Yes, yes I know she is shielded by Fox. If you watch Fox though they will ask her a difficult question or allow her to address a difficult issue. It's just that they will help her by framing the question in a certain way and then by not following up if she says something weird or illogical. Often times, even though they have soft balled the question she comes up with an answer so terrible that other news sources report it.

So my advice to Joe (not that he would be reading this) would be to challenge her to answer a set of specific questions. It will create news and direct peoples attention to the areas of the book you want to talk about.

9/20/2011 10:44:51 am

Tom, you'll be glad to know that there is at least one neighborhood full of kids who will spend days playing with a refrigerator box. You won't be able to join them, there's a sign on the door that says "no boys alooed (sic)"

Can't wait to settle down with my copy of the Rogue tonight.

Luddy

9/20/2011 11:16:23 am

Ivyfree

9/20/2011 11:19:05 am

"Palin could have known about it and have sought medical advice about it. That would then explain why she was unconcerned about leaking fluid in Texas. If she had been leaking for a time, why would she expect that a little more meant an imminent birth?"

It wasn't just leaking, though. Sarah wrote that she was having contractions. She wrote that she gave her speech. "Big laughs. Bigger contractions." She paused for prayer, "desperate" with fear for her baby. "Please God, let everything be all right with my baby! I prayed, desperate with fear. After all my doubts, I had fallen in love with this baby..."

But not worried enough to go to the hospital in Dallas. Of course, she wasn't pregnant- her ghostwriter was just having a poetical flight.

Luddy

9/20/2011 11:19:12 am

@search4more

;-P no offense meant, kind sir. Where I spend most of my time, that is medically oriented terminology!

And as we all age, the terminology gets ickier for you fellows as well, so watch out.

probably for chickens, also, too! ;)

myrna nichols

9/20/2011 11:44:22 am

I have just read pages of posts about leaking amniotic fluid. Every single post says the same thing. Not knowing whether the leaking and the wet underwear were due to urine, vaginal discharge or leaking amniotic fluid, every website said that was a sign to go immediately to the doctor and have it checked out. If it is leaking amniotic fluid, the woman was either hospitalized or confined to bed rest. There is a risk of infection. No one thought that it was natural, normal and that one should go about their ordinary business. If we believe Levi's story is true (and not just an after thought to add some weight to Sarah's lame Wild Ride story), then Palin showed very bad judgement in flying to Texas after a month of leaking.

Tom link

9/20/2011 12:08:07 pm

@Up,

That was funny--damn girls.

@Sharon also

Thanks for the compassion. The Sullivan piece was very good but I afraid it won't make a dent even.

Marie

9/20/2011 12:11:31 pm

I just watched the 1988 movie The Thin Blue Line for the first time in a couple decades. It was just as chilling and provocative as when we first saw it back in the theatres. This is a documentary about an innocent man who was convicted and sentenced to death for a murder he did not commit.

There are some interesting parallels between this movie and the Babygate saga. In both scenarios, the evidence appears overwhelming in one direction. And yet once the wheels of injustice have started rolling, they cannot stop, because of issues which have nothing to do with the matter at hand.

How could such a thing happen? In The Thin Blue Line:

* The district attorney wanted blood, and the actual murderer was a minor, who could not receive the death penalty.
* The case was tried in a small rural town where everyone knew everyone. The actual murderer was a life long town resident, while the innocent man was an outsider.
*The trial took place in Texas. The actual murderer was a Texan, but the innocent man was a Yankee.
* The innocent man "showed no remorse" for his terrible crime, which was used as proof that he deserved the death penalty. (Of course he showed no remorse---he didn't commit the crime!)

The good news is that by creating the documentary, the public was forced to take a closer look at the case and this led to the eventual release of an innocent man. But it took awhile. Hopefully books like The Rogue will eventually achieve the same effect.

CYN

9/20/2011 12:19:36 pm

Five years ago I started leaking amniotic fluid. I was at 39 weeks plus 3 days. I called my Dr, and was told to go to the ER ASAP. The staff performed a "FERN TEST" determined that indeed I was leaking amniotic fluid. I was hospitalized that day, we waited 12 hours for labor to start, didn't happen. I was then induced and that is not a pretty story. LOL
Please visit this web site,
WWW.AAFP.ORG/AFP/2006/0215/p659.HTML
Levi's story about months of leaking fluid and SP wild ride is just BS or she really trying to harm Trig.

comeonpeople

9/20/2011 12:29:10 pm

Has anyone seen a schedule of Joe's book tour? Is he doing signings? I googled and other than firedoglake on 9/25 can't find a schedule.
Thanks.

curiouser

9/20/2011 12:38:27 pm

Ivyfree reminds us of the 'big contractions, big laughs' that Sarah said characterized her speech in Texas. So we'd expect that those in attendance would have noticed.

"Nobody knew a thing," said Linda Lingle, the governor of Hawaii. "I only found out from my security detail on the way home that she had gone into labor and that she had gone home to Alaska."

http://tinyurl.com/42u7bne

The article goes on to say Sarah wasn't in labor. Spin...spin...spin.

Tom link

9/20/2011 12:41:18 pm

Dammit. I'd guess that 75% of all the posters wanting to expose Palin are women and most of you have at least one pregnancy. You hear and read the story and you know that it's a lie. In many cases the lie is what prompted you to dig.

There are Palinistas who are women, women who've been pregnant. How is it that they don't question the ride like you do. Why doesn't Maureen Dowd speak up? Or Anna Quindlen? Have they never been pregnant so they don't get it?

If all of you plus all the women at IM, Polgates, Pgates and the rest understand that the ride is a complete fabrication, how come nobody, not one powerful female journalist who really counts, speaks up?

It has to be because that they don't want to, don't care or they've been instructed not to. If it's so obvious to all of you, and needing of exposure, why isn't it to them?

Allie RN

9/20/2011 12:45:05 pm

Hi guys,

I read Levi's book today. I also got Joe's book and Laura's book. Oh yeah, and Floyd's book. I read that one yesterday.

Just so we are all on the same page, the amniotic fluid sac serves as a sterile barrier for the growing fetus to protect it from its mother's organisms. The only way germs get in is through the umbilical cord, i.e. the bloodstream. That is, unless the sac springs a leak. Sorry to mention it, but the vagina is full of germies which are as happy as little piggies in shit as long as they are in the vagina. When there is a leak in the sac and they get transported up to the uterus, they use their new neighborhood to cause infection and because of its proximity, the fetus get infected, too. The potential for infection begins immediately upon any kind of rent, tear, leak, rupture or any other disturbance of the the sterile membrane. It takes a little while for the infection to develop, but bacteria have a very rapid reproduction rate once they get into it. The outside window of opportunity, at least under the consideration of the OB docs I worked with, was the assumption that the fetus was infected by 24 hours after the integrity of the membranes had been breached.

Thus, please allow me to conclude that the notion that Sarah Palin dripped amniotic fluid for weeks without becoming sick herself (fever) and without the fetus becoming infected is preposterous. The presence of fever for any reason in the mother stimulates labor at any gestation because the body perceives a fever to be a hostile condition for the fetus and tries to get it out of harm's way, even if it is premature. A pregnant woman with a fever is an obstetric emergency to prevent preterm labor.

Sometimes when pregnant women think they just leaked some amniotic fluid, it was actually just some urine expressed out by fetal movement.

BTW, the tiny gauge needle inserted during an amniocentesis is no where near the vagina.

One last thing, women who are not pregnant do not leak amniotic fluid. Ever.

:)

search4more

9/20/2011 12:50:35 pm

@Luddy,

Sorry. I wasn't offended. I would talk about fluids all day...if I could. ;-P

I actually wasn't trying to say it was bad to talk about it. I actually think it's healthy to talk about stuff that normally isn't talked about. I was just trying to put myself in the shoes of people hearing about the Palin birth story and how that the mere discussion of fluids could stop them from paying attention to any of the details because of the ick factor.

Allie RN

9/20/2011 12:57:02 pm

Interestingly enough, amniotic fluid looks like a fern frond under the microscope. Who knew?

Allie RN

9/20/2011 12:59:50 pm

I meant who knew before somebody thought to look at it under a microscope. When I first heard that about 30 years ago, I have to admit that I thought that was pretty cool.

Allie RN

9/20/2011 01:06:00 pm

And you know what else is interesting, search4more? I read a study a couple of years ago that republicans have a much stronger ick factor than dems do. Seriously. It was written in the context of gauging people's reactions to gay people. Reps focused on their ick factor and could not get past it to even consider their rights, whereas Dems focused on the human side of homosexuality.

curiouser

9/20/2011 01:06:20 pm

@Tom - I spent more than a decade in an evangelical church. The spin on Sarah's story would be that God guided her and would have stopped her if she shouldn't have gotten on the plane. Remember she prayed for God to protect the baby. Her story is a sign of how close she is to God.

There were two women journalists who were frequent contributors to Keith Olbermann's MSNBC show. Joan Walsh is one and the other was from the NE but I don't remember her name...maybe Lynn something. Anyway, one of them was on Keith's show when he was talking about the rumor following the campaign's announcement of Bristol's pregnancy. Her reaction was one of horror. The suggestion of the hoax was too preposterous and she couldn't believe Sarah would do such a thing. It was unthinkable. I don't think Olbermann ever addressed the subject again.

The journolist details other reactions. I imagine there are many female journalists who are suspicious but, like the men, don't want to get near the story. At the time, of course, they didn't realize how Sarah would use Trig as a political prop during the campaign and later as a financial prop. I don't have any excuses for them now.

search4more

9/20/2011 01:08:13 pm

CYN,

That's a great link. The flow chart on the page lays it all out very clearly.

So if she was pregnant with leakage she would have been on antibiotics and steroids. They would have been aiming to deliver earlier maybe at 33-34 weeks. She would have probably have had an amniocentesis to check out how the baby was developing and whether early delivery would be safe.

She wouldn't be travelling then. That makes no sense.

FrostyAK

9/20/2011 01:34:06 pm

Trying to make sense out of $P and her 'birth' story is impossible. Better to make the case that NONE of what she said was true, and then find little tidbits that might be true.

On Levi - he has lied before. He did an expose on $P in People(?) Magazine, and then when the re-engagement happened, he retracted it all. One of those was a LIE. I would suggest we believe NOTHING that the wittle Wasilla wannabe has to say. I can't believe any publisher would pay him for a 'book'. As much of a disappointment as Baileys, or even more so.

What teenage boy would be listening if his hot to trot GF was blathering about amniotic fluid?

LTA

9/20/2011 01:46:48 pm

After reading the post at polgates yesterday, I see Levi's book is NOTHING more than a blatant attempt to 'back up' the wild ride. Levi, I am so disappointed. What gives, dude?

Also, too: Sarah flew something like 20,000 miles in the last month of her 'pregnancy'. That's a lot of pressurized cabin air miles to log if one is 'leaking'.

Also, too, too: I just do not believe a 16-17 year old boy who identified himself as a "f'in redneck" on his myspace page would be clued in about anything relating to his on again/off again girlfriend's mother's vagina's possible leakage. Sorry to be blunt. But come on here.

Ottoline

9/20/2011 02:06:34 pm

Tom: Let me turn your question around. Why is it that NO ONE who believes SP was pregnant has an explanation for the Mar 14 flat-profile photo?

Reasons to not discuss it:
--They don't want to be fired or reprimanded
--They don't want to seem tinfoil-hattish
--They are Dominionists and the end justifies the means.
--They believe all politicians lie, so no big deal.
--They are not paying attention

Ottoline

9/20/2011 02:24:35 pm

Searchformore@16:25:59 -- hilarious! And you are so right. Many of us are older women who have long ago stopped being embarrassed by ANYTHING. I did a lot of assisted fertility stuff, and once I was done with it, I would have had no problem standing on my head, naked, on Main Street, at noon, if that was required to get me pregnant. I read and discussed EVERYTHING, as so many of us here have done.

However, as a sweet young girl, I did not even acknowledge the existence of "discharge," because I thought it happened because I was a bad person. When I thought about it. Which was rarely. Denial of an icky thing.

Yes I think you have identified it. The yuckiness means many of us would do anything to ignore it. Even today.

Ottoline

9/20/2011 02:55:34 pm

My local library is alive and well because people like me can reserve books online, reserve books from a huge network of other libraries. If I am on vacation or housebound and can't come to the lib, for $2 they mail the book to wherever I say and I mail it back to them for free -- just put it back into the green canvas bag it comes in and let the mail carrier pick it up.

Libraries in remote, poor areas have a huge role to play. They have traditionally served as meeting places, and now serve as a place to search for jobs via the help of a ref librarian. As well as after-school study halls and bab sitters. Such libraries ought to be the place where teams of teachers hand out iPads to the aged, the poor, and children and anyone in town who does not have one -- and teach them to use them, for staying in touch, shopping, education, and newspaper reading.

Yes, some losers here as businesses of all kinds inevitably shift to internet-assisted.

The Gates Foundation had as one of its original goals to shore up libraries in remote, poor areas. They gave away lots of free computers, but they forgot to send free techs and funding out too, so many such computers have long since not been working in poor, remote libraries.

A new business model must be developed for libraries (esp those in remote, poor areas) where funding is always being cut and lib infrastructure is crumbling. Esp now, esp if Palin's pals prevail. I have long wondered what that new model might be -- what the Carnegie lib initiative of our time would be. My thoughts turn to the many Gates-like nerdy (one of my highest compliments! meaning non-conspicuous consumers who just like to work hard) multi-millionaires who might be corralled to fund a public-library renaissance.

If anyone has an interest in this rant and this subject, please let's connect privately via Laura giving you my email.

Rationalist

9/20/2011 03:31:03 pm

I got in a heated debate with a bunch of women (and at least one guy) at Feministe.com about Palin.

My take is that women's defense of Palin stems from one of three main perspectives:

1. From the left - Feminists are very uncomfortable with any criticism that centers on a anything - like a pregnancy - related to a woman's gender, and can't see that questions about the pregnancy are fair game because Palin brought them up in the first place.

2. On the far right...well, who knows? I could really over-generalize and say that this is not a social group that has been accustomed to having the truth about their bodies lent much credence.

3. Journalists - remember a few months ago when Brad's paper first came out and Tim and Tina discussed it? She just flat out ruled it out and said it was impossible. (And unfortunately he did not have his ducks in a row, debate-wise.) My view of female journalists who avoid this topic - especially female journalists who have given birth - is that they are deathly afraid of not being taken seriously so they just won't "go there."

But in my view there is a special place in hell for them.

Which brings me to: Laura, you're a female journalist. Do you see any way for you to publish - not on your blog, but in a more mainstream forum - your perspective on the Palin "pregnancy?" I'm afraid we're right on the verge of a backlash for all the male voices "piling on" with no smart journalist/mom to affirm that they are on the right track.

V ictoria link

9/20/2011 04:07:55 pm

Math: Given that a woman in her 40s is pregnant, she is much more likely than a younger woman to produce a DS child.

This is true and it is known the conditional probability. However, it ignores the fact that it is simply much less likely for a woman in her 40s to get pregnant at all (especially when they've had their tubes tied as seems to be the case with Palin - but we'll ignore that). If we include the likelihood of Palin being pregnant at all, the probability of her producing a DS child goes way down. I don't have statistics based on her age group, but 80% of DS babies are born to mothers under 35 - which means only 20% are born to those who are older. 20% is the factor I used when testing the probaility of her pregnancy story in an earlier guest blog here, but in reality the factor should be smaller.

FrostyAK

9/20/2011 04:09:43 pm

@Ottoline - On libraries, Alaska does one thing right -
http://listenalaska.lib.overdrive.com

As I am no longer able to read the small print in books, there are great numbers of audio books and ebooks to be checked out online and downloaded, all you need is a library card. They are auto deleted from your computer when they are due. It has been an incredible boon to me, as I was an avid reader. Now I listen...

I'm wondering if other states sponsor a similar program.

I hate liars.

9/20/2011 04:56:24 pm

Rationalist, ALL Levi does is exaggerate his relationship while ignoring his own truth. His cover is blown when one considers her Gov travel schedule and realizes things could not have happened that way.

His Ghosts seem to be equally stupid and inept at any fact checking and literacy.

He ignores the instability of his relationship to make himself look good. Despite some audience member's reactions, I dont think this will change anything.

It does mean something that Levi's accounts paint Sadie as a liar though. He contradicts her on a couple specific things.

I refuse to give this deadbeat human being anymore attention. There was a reason 6 people showed at his Jersey signing. IT lasted 12 minutes.

Jess Rabbit

9/20/2011 05:03:48 pm

I just do not believe a 16-17 year old boy who identified himself as a "f'in redneck" on his myspace page would be clued in about anything relating to his on again/off again girlfriend's mother's vagina's possible leakage. Sorry to be blunt. But come on here.

--

And considering what we know, I SERIOUSLY doubt Levi was actually around the house much before 2008's end. He ignores:

Bristol was in dillingham in July 07
Bristol went to homecoming 07 with friends, photographed at home. Levi NOT in sight
Bristol went to Juneau a couple times during this time as well
BRistol went to NYC
Bristol was referenced by Ivy Frye when discussing pedicure night
Bristol went to Hawaii in Nov for the wedding

I dont even know if I can give him the "I refuse to go to Juneau story". 1. Some of Bristols best friends are there 2. the couple did indeed break up in early 08 3. Bristol once again attended family events during this time.

Why does Levi NOT reference this? If he were around, he'd know. I believe he was still playing hockey through Feb 08. Theres a chunk of his time there.

He also doesn't mention how often the kids were in Sarah's office. Again, I fail to see hoe he'd know certain things. He paints himself as someone with NO life outside Bristol. Myspace definitely paints a different picture.

Dumbass.

I hate liars and revisionists.

Desperate

9/20/2011 05:07:18 pm

What teenage boy would be listening if his hot to trot GF was blathering about amniotic fluid?

---

More importantly, what lazy, teen boy describes a birth the way he described Tripp's?

And one of his Ghost writers is a woman???

SERIOUSLY disturbed. I think he may have been going for humor. To conclude what he needs to conclude, he has to:

1. make himself NOT look like a drunken drop out
2. make Bristol and Sarah look bad (despite them being on decent terms post Trigs birth
3. lie

Sad Sad

9/20/2011 05:09:37 pm

Wasn't is Sondra T who said Levi's word is worthless? It's not true apparently.

And his sister still defends him. So much for her alleged integrity. And NO, she has never apologized not shown respect to Bristol. She attacks anyoen who disagrees with her.

These people need lives stat. If Levi REALLY had such great parents, he'd have a more stable future right now.

Exp:Nov.05/08

9/20/2011 09:26:00 pm

Sarah and Bristol don't need anyone to try to make them look bad, they do that to themselves.

Levi's documented tale of Sarah leaking amniotic fluid for weeks serves a purpose, or a few. One is to try to cover his own ass by pretending he thought she was actually pregnant based on some unbelievably ridiculous crap that he says Bristol told him.
He's using this to say he *could have been* unaware that she faked the pregnancy.
The truth is, we have no idea if Bristol told him this, or if he made it up. Also, if Sarah made this up, to tell Bristol, to tell Levi.
There are way too many lies and liars within this.

The water leak story is the most ridiculous aspect of the wild ride, and Levi just made it twice as ridiculous.
Bristol would know better than someone able to leak for weeks. If Levi doesn't, he's just pretending to toe the line.

Could this be an effort to draw attention to how crazy the amniotic fluid story is? Or just to cover his own ass when the (figurative) water on the fake pregnancy finally does break?

Ivyfree

9/20/2011 09:37:46 pm

Ottoline: "Why is it that NO ONE who believes SP was pregnant has an explanation for the Mar 14 flat-profile photo?"

There's a reason you missed, and it's one I've thought of frequently in the last few months.

They don't know where babies come from.
How an infant develops, how labor starts, how it progresses, what the woman experiences, what the people around her see her doing. They have never given thought to what it's actually like, putting themselves in the woman's place, pushing a seven-pound infant out a vagina.

They just don't know where babies come from, and it makes them susceptible to any story Sarah wants to tell.

Ottoline

9/20/2011 10:15:23 pm

Ivyfree -- Just to agree with you, from my own experience. Being pregnant brought a lot of surprises to me, even though I thought I knew it all. The special kind of tiredness, the heightened sense of smell, the lumbering walk, the morning sickness that was not JUST in the morning, the out-of-breathness from lungs being pushed, the huge urge to be careful, the new facts re changes to my body, how all-consuming the process is, how the ick-factor keeps us from discussing most of this with the never-pregnant -- I've prob missed half of it. You are right. That's why some people don't understand how really impossibly inconsistent the Mar 14 photo is with delivering a 6+ pound baby 5 weeks later. But most of us reading/writing here know that. And, like me, cannot fathom how others cannot understand it.

comeonpeople

9/20/2011 10:44:49 pm

@Tom,
I think it's pretty clear that those who question Palin are highly educated critical thinkers, people from all walks of life including the medical, nursing, legal and insurance fields. Palinistas perhaps take everything as it is spun and do not do any work on their own. They are blinded by what they want her to be, what they were told she was. Others just don't pay her any mind. But to the person, every colleague I speak to about the hoax believes it. They just didn't know the story prior to my telling them because the media has failed the thinking public. So, some of the thinking public does the new next best thing and blogs their investigations. The future of investigative journalism is being written via the blogs.

rubbernecking

9/20/2011 11:03:42 pm

I think the Levi bashing is a mistake. He didn't promise a book about Trig. His goal was to rewrite the public story about Levi. He wants the public, and eventually his son, to believe that he genuinely loved Bristol.

Assume for a moment that Sarah's sister Molly is the birth mother. Assume that Sarah and Todd believe Molly's unplanned pregnancy will hurt her custody case with Wooten. Assume they believe Wooten will demand a paternity test and use the results to raise questions about Molly's character. Assume the Palins believe that a judge might conclude Molly has too many children and not enough financial resources--and grant full custody of Wooten's biological children to Wooten. Assume the Palins secretly become legal guardians of Trig for insurance purposes with the understanding that Molly will handle most of his day-to-day care.

In this scenario, it's possible that Bristol and Willow don't know the real truth. The Wild Ride and hospital drama might have been as much for them as for the AK public. All Levi would know is that Bristol believes her mother gave birth.

Olivia

9/20/2011 11:21:39 pm

Tom, the women who believe Palin's story are the same women who will tell you that you can't have cats around newborn babies because they will suck the breath out of them. It really happened to someone who knows someone they used to know. They are the same ones who send idiot emails warning about computer viruses that will erase everything on your hard drive or the emails that say Obama has a law ready to be passed that turn over your first born to the commies so send this email to every single person you know or you will die in 24 hours. They were the ones who voted for Bush because he was soooo good looking.
Gullible, stupid people who question nothing.

Olivia

9/20/2011 11:26:06 pm

I agree with Ivyfree with one addition. They don't know where babies come from and they don't want any details. It's just too icky.
I have a cousin who birthed 2 kids and she thinks the baby's umbilical cord is attached to the mother's bellybutton from the inside. This woman has been a high level corporate executive for nearly 25 years.

Sunshine1970

9/20/2011 11:30:43 pm

Ivyfree said:
(snip)"They don't know where babies come from."(snip)

That would explain some, but not the women who have gone through childbirth who believe Palin's story. And that floors me.

I've never given birth, but even I can see the whole story is bogus, especially when during 2008-2009 at least 8 women in my office were pregnant and watching all the different body types, skinny, tall, short, but all pretty much in shape, some their first some their second child, and each and every one of them could *not* have hidden their pregnancy with a scarf after the 6th month, even if they had tried to corset themselves in, there was no way.

lilly lily

9/20/2011 11:36:02 pm

Levi whitewashes himself.

Mercede whitewashes herself.

Bristol whitewashes herself.

Sarah whitewashes herself.

So what else is new. Everyone of them lies. Sarah and Bristol more than the Johnston kids. Long pracitce of lies by Sarah and Bristol.

But who can expect anything else?

I wish Joe well. He is taking hits for his truth telling.

rubbernecking

9/20/2011 11:42:45 pm

@Ottoline: "Why is it that NO ONE who believes SP was pregnant has an explanation for the Mar 14 flat-profile photo?"

Because many people would not use a single photo as conclusive proof of a hoax. Because sometimes the angle or lighting of a photo creates a misleading representation of reality. Because we can't see under the scarf.

Most people will cherry-pick or rationalize evidence to suit a preferred outcome.

jeff

9/20/2011 11:55:29 pm

"Like truth, I'm afraid irony does not fare well in Palinland."
--- Joe McGinniss (from The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin)

THE ROGUE (Don't worry---no plot spoliers here. Unfortunately, we know already how this one turns out, to this point, anyway.)

Below is the review that I gave for Joe's book, The Rogue on the Amazon.com site. I always hate to read those reviews that divulge all of the "goodies", so that's the reason for my rather "vanilla" review and is actually more of a recommendation.

There's not a lot of new information for the hardcore anti-Palin folks, but I will say that there is a great deal of detailed background info that Joe offers from his comprehensive research of Sarah and her family that gave me more insight into her behavior. Just as I expected, this book is very well-written and a great read. I'm glad I purchased it, and recommend it highly.

My Amazon Review of The Rogue:
Extremely well-researched and set into a narrative that makes for a compelling examination of Sarah Palin growing up and her entry into politics. Joe intertwines two stories--- one, the life of Sarah Palin through those who knew her most of her life as she grew up in the Mat-Su and interacted with them in the community as the daughter of a most vile character, her father, Chuck "Creepy Chuck" Heath; second, Joe highlights the behavior of Sarah and her purse-carrying bully-wannabe husband, Todd, as he moved into the home next door while he conducted interviews throughout the Wasilla and Anchorage communities from May - September, 2010.

This is well-written, as Joe's other books are as well, and it's difficult to put down once you pick it up and open it. Joe does give anonymity to those who felt the pressure of living in a small-community in which the civil and governmental positions are still dominated by Palin appointees today, but all of his interviews were documented by secondary sources, so this does not read like a gossip-ridden, tabloid style rag as many have tried to portray this book prior to its release. One of the most meaningful themes that I took away from reading the book was the fact that this serves as an indictment against many of the "journalists" who failed to properly vet Palin and, to this day, are afraid to write the truth about Palin's dominionist background and behavior let they suffer the wrath of Palin's "flying monkey" brigade of faithful supporters who disparage and trash anyone who dares to speak the truth about Palin and her family.

***** 5 stars

lilly lily

9/21/2011 01:20:30 am

The writers for Levi Johnston seem to be a married couple. They think Levi got the shaft and they like him a great deal.

They volunteered to ghost write for him. So I doubt they got anything up front.

Sad to say, you probably get what you pay for.

Viola-Alex

9/21/2011 01:29:42 am

Shout out to Brad S! Great article on BusinessInsider.com . I sent it to all my friends who have never questioned Trig's birth.

Lemme know if the pot-sweetening happens.

LTA

9/21/2011 01:31:30 am

I think Bristol has been trolling here a bit. Obviously she needs to 'refudiate' Levi's book line by line.

(Jess Rabbit, sorry if you're legit. But you sound exactly like Bristol or 'BRistol' if you prefer)

Karen

9/21/2011 01:45:52 am

Sad Sad, Desperate, I hate lying Jesse Rabbit, You are missing the point. We are looking for the truth of a lie of gigantic proportions told by Sarah Palin while she ran on the McCain ticket. One that she elaborated on and twisted and polished just enough to get the Evangelicals to worship her for her supposed pro-life stance (if you just ignore the part about considering an abortion). This isn't about high school fueds.

Let @rubbernecking explain it to you:

Wed, 21 Sep 2011 06:03:42

I think the Levi bashing is a mistake. He didn't promise a book about Trig. His goal was to rewrite the public story about Levi. He wants the public, and eventually his son, to believe that he genuinely loved Bristol.

Assume for a moment that Sarah's sister Molly is the birth mother. Assume that Sarah and Todd believe Molly's unplanned pregnancy will hurt her custody case with Wooten. Assume they believe Wooten will demand a paternity test and use the results to raise questions about Molly's character. Assume the Palins believe that a judge might conclude Molly has too many children and not enough financial resources--and grant full custody of Wooten's biological children to Wooten. Assume the Palins secretly become legal guardians of Trig for insurance purposes with the understanding that Molly will handle most of his day-to-day care.

In this scenario, it's possible that Bristol and Willow don't know the real truth. The Wild Ride and hospital drama might have been as much for them as for the AK public. All Levi would know is that Bristol believes her mother gave birth.

Clangclangclang

9/21/2011 01:54:58 am

Lilly, I wouldn't even say any one of them lies more than the other. Theyve all told huge lies regarding the past and theyve all left stuff out that makes them look bad.

Sarah, Bristol, Levi and Sadie = 4 birds of the same feather. EXACTLY.

DOG complex

9/21/2011 01:58:21 am

rubbernecking, I've pondered things like this. In reality, the extended family (whether Palin or Heath) is extremely close.

What I keep going back to is Heather's email to Sarah about the trials of being a special needs parents, an email written in Oct 2007.

That's a WHOLE lot of coincidence now is it.

everspring

9/21/2011 02:01:25 am

From Levi's interview - someone on IM posted part of an interview Levi gave. He said that Bristol stopped taking the pill AFTER Trig's birth. AFTER, not before. Then the 5-months pregnant announcement from the McCain campaign was a LIE. Then Tripp, supposedly born end of Dec. would have been premature. Of course, this is no surprise to us, but something the media might be able to get into.

jeff

9/21/2011 02:02:18 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/21/levi-johnston-bristol-palin-book_n_973465.html

[...]

HuffPost: You write that Bristol wanted to get pregnant.

Johnston: Bristol was on birth control for a long time. She got off it soon after Trig [Sarah Palin's son] was born. I think Trig was a big motivator for her. Her mother just had a child and I think Bristol was really jealous. She was the one who was supposed to have that kid and that's when she got off of [birth control]. We weren't practicing safe sex and she ended up getting pregnant.

HuffPost: What do you mean she was the one meant to have it?

Johnston: We'd always talked about a kid. We'd been dating for several years. I think it kind of hurt her because she really wanted a kid so bad and seeing her mom have another one really made her want a kid now.

HuffPost: You say that Sarah kept Trig's pregnancy a secret until the seventh month.

Johnston: Yes, she kept it very secret. Willow had actually found the pregnancy stick in her bedroom. That's when we all found out because she went around telling everybody. Bristol and the whole family was hurt that their mother couldn't share that with them. Keeping it away from your own family is kind of messed up.

[...]

Yeah, right, Levi...because every 43 yr old expectant mother saves the EPT stick for 6-7 months when they're having their 5th child.

Question: how did Willow know that the prego stick was for Sarah, assuming she had hid her pregnancy so well (not to mention, her mom's "tight abs"? Didn't Willow also find several EPT sticks for Brisket, also? Do the Palins ever throw trash away? What is the value of an EPT stick once you get the results? Do the Palins treat these prego sticks like many junior high girls treat a movie ticket from a first date, to put on a cork board in their room, along with thier other keepsakes, love notes, spelling bee ribbons, etc.?

Thank you HuffPo, for saving me the $12 I might've thrown away on that POS of a book.

LiarsRus

9/21/2011 02:04:46 am

Who knows why Levi said that story about the month long slow water leak. Who knows why he decided to change history with his book or get public events so wrong or heavily contradict past interviews.

I am truly starting to think ALL his writers did was read the blogs and books and throw together a slapdash barely literate monstrosity. They literally stole exact sentences from Bailey's book.

It is impossible to determine authenticity here because things just don't match up to what actually happened - meaning things that are documented.

Levi needs the public to believe he and Bristol were a great couple at one time, that they had few problems, that he fit in well with her family, that he was a good potential husband, that he is a provider.

He is absolutely no better than Bristol in his book writing campaign. There is no defending that.

My question for him right out of the gate: So Levi, which is it? Have you seen Sarah cry or not? You made both claims.

Tom link

9/21/2011 02:05:10 am

March 14 photo? It's the March 26 photo that clearly shows that SP had something about 8" wide and 2" thick wrapeed around her belly. It can't be perceived as anything other than some sort of wrap, lipo dissolve or otherwise. It's undeniable. The Marxh 14 photo allows for some dispute, not the March 26 one.

When presented in sequence, March 26, Gusty photo, ridiculous ride story,birth, yada yada, how can anyone dismiss this? I know I'm preaching to the choir. I just can't get past the collective disregard by the media, all of them, for blatant disregard of a story that is right in front of them; story in which all the investigateive work has been done for them. Pen to paper Time, Newsweek et al.

How can they continue to allow this freakshow to impact the way we live?

jeff

9/21/2011 02:05:22 am

Excellent catch, Everspring.

I swear, you'd think these idiots might have at least one "skull session" to sit down and coordinate all of their lies.

Tow that line

9/21/2011 02:10:01 am

NO rubbernecking, he promised the truth, about himself and his life with Bristol. He provided little truth as evidenced by the internet (ie he, Bristol's, and friend's social networking comments)

That book's timeline alone makes no sense, let alone when one compares it to proven events from the time in question.

It's telling that Bristol, even in late 07, didn't attend functions with him, instead with friends and family. He failed to expound upon the times when the Palins ate out, attended sporting events, had dinner guests over.

He literally paints a picture that solely revolves around the couple, like nothing else existed. THAT is why the book is pointless and ineffectual. You cant write truth by towing a narrow line.

Laura Novak link

9/21/2011 02:11:01 am

@Jeff LOL! You crack me up on all accounts.

@Rubbernecking: fascinating theory. One I hadn't really thought of. The possibilities with this family are endless.

Try not to feed the trolls. It's the same one who appears everywhere. Comments using different names one after the other in rapid fire succession. But it's the same person. I sure hope Palin is paying them a living wage for this.

jeff

9/21/2011 02:19:38 am

Just doing a simple timeline using Levi's statements, along with the benefit of Everspring's observation...

April 18th Tri-G is "born"
Dec 18th Tripp's orig due date
Dec 27th Tripp is "born".

8 mo. 9 days between the 2 births.

I wonder:
a. How "soon after Trig's birth" Brisket stopped taking BC pill? and
b. Then, how long it took her to get pregnant.

Even if it only took one day, there's a problem with the math. Just sayin'.

jeff

9/21/2011 02:33:39 am

@Laura,

If you are laughing, or even just smiling a little, then mission accomplished on this end.

I'm just tickled to death that I didn't waste my $$$ and time on Levi's book, just as I took a pass on Brisket's ghost-written sack of shit.

These people (Sarah, Brisket, Levi) compile their recollections onto paper and people are actually expected to read this stuff. Without even being water-boarded. Okay, I can live with that part. But the fact that these three goofballs are actually paid---PAID!--- for their efforts...that just blows me away! Something's wrong with that picture.

Then again, I did buy Sarah Lou's first book, Going Rogue, so I assume that makes me part of the problem, also, too.

NSG

9/21/2011 02:45:14 am

I'm going to take Jeff & Everspring's gestational calculations and add to it.

(I'm using this calculator, fyi...
http://health.discovery.com/tools/calculators/pregnancy/pregnancy.html)

Using the standard 38 weeks (conception to due date), if Tripp's due date was Dec 18, the date of conception would have been March 27. That's almost THREE WEEKS before Trig's birth.

Going the other way...

If, as Levi writes, Bristol was inspired by Trig's birth (allegedly on April 18) to go off the pill and MAGICALLY conceived on the NEXT DAY (4/19), the due date would have been January 10, nearly a month after the reported due date of 12/18.

(Tripp allegedly born on 12/28, keeping all the "data" in one place.)

These Palins have some AMAZING gestational powers.

everspring

9/21/2011 03:02:34 am

Jeff, NSG

Bristol 'supposedly' wanting a baby AFTER Trig was already born makes you wonder about Tripp doesn't it. When was he actually born? I had a huge post about my suspicions on Laura's previous posting. Strange as it sounds, I still lean to the Trig and Tripp are twins camp; however, I think I'm the only one in that camp.

everspring

9/21/2011 03:14:58 am

TWINS - this is a re-post of mine and I'm revisiting it in light of the fact that Levi said Bristol stopped taking birth control pills AFTER Trig was born. I do not believe Bristol was pregnant at all - I think that was another hoax. She had to pretend to be pregnant because Tripp was already born (twin to Trig - not identical twins obviously). The initial reason for keeping Tripp a secret was that she needed to be a 'respectable age' so the unwed mother's pregnancy wouldn't seem so bad.

1. Two babies (twins Trig and Tripp) born prematurely – who ultimately needed hospital care for a period of time.
2. Initial intent was to protect Bristol all along (thereby protecting Sarah’s image) and give the babies up for adoption and proceed with life as usual.
3. Palins wanted to continue protecting Bristol and the father, but giving the babies up for adoption was no longer an option. Reasons for this: 1) Trig had DS; 2) maybe Bristol changed her mind; 3) political motivation may have come later based on #1 and #2.
4. SP fakes pregnancy. Trig is born. Substitution of babies begins to occur due to illness or convenience, but only one baby is seen at a time.
5. Bristol keeps Tripp under wraps until she is older in age and it is not such an embarrassment to all.
6. None of this really matters and pretty much stays well under the radar easily UNTIL Sarah becomes the VP nominee.
7. Now the baby scrutiny begins. To avoid discovery of the hoax and getting kicked off the ticket, SP dangles a carrot which is Bristol’s pregnancy which is fake. Bristol wears SP’s empathy belly (hey, it worked for Sarah).
8. This works well for Bristol because she ultimately has to present twin Tripp to the public and it now works for Sarah (no way could child be Bristol’s if she is now pregnant – hah, take that you PJ bloggers).
9. Twins explains the “second baby arm” in the picture of Levi reportedly holding Trig in May 2008.
10. Twins explains two different babies posing as Trig.
11. So, now Bristol supposedly gives birth to Tripp end of Dec. 2008.
12. No birth pictures whatsoever of either of the babies and families – is this normal?.
13. No birth announcements of either of the babies – why not?
14. No consistency in the birth stories – easy to forget the facts when they are made up.
15. Inaccurate information of the births of Trig and Tripp.
16. NOT ONE picture of Tripp as a baby – why not? This is not in keeping with the Palins who want attention at all costs. Think of all the ooh and aaahh points they missed, not to mention, the money they would have made featuring the new tiny baby on the cover of a magazine. Why not – because Tripp is already about 9 months old and they have to figure out when they can present him to the public where the size discrepancy won’t be such an issue.
17. Being twins who were premature, the growth rate for first year and ½ would not have been the same as a typical baby.
18. So whenever Tripp would get trotted out he’d likely have been smaller in size than a normal baby and could’ve passed for a younger age.
19. There is a video of Bristol, Tripp, and Todd with Matt Lauer. Tripp is supposedly 4 months old in this video but looks huge – could he perhaps be 1 year old? Hard to tell as he is out cold and laying down the whole time. But his body looks large draped across her knees. And Bristol holds his hand the entire time – why – does the size of his hand give his age away?
20. At some point, Tripp does appear to be quite big for his age – why because he is now growing normally and the preemie size is no longer a factor.
21. Why does Tripp have a pacifier in his mouth? Maybe he speaks like his real age and not the age they pretend he is. Same with keeping him in a stroller.
22. The claims by Sadie that Bristol and Levi “wanted” to have a baby make NO sense – give me a break - what teens want a baby (and remember Levi’s myspace comments).
23. Levi’s claim that SP was mad at her mom and wanted her own baby make even less sense, but fits the narrative they set forth of Bristol getting pregnant, then giving birth to Tripp. Now Sarah has cover for Trig and Bristol has cover for Tripp.
24. Can’t explain the ear abnormality - perhaps Tripp had the deformity and it was fixed at some point.

I know this doesn’t wash with many (maybe none) of you and creates now a set of different questions. But are the questions really that much different than we are now asking – ear? substitute baby?, etc.

lilly lily

9/21/2011 03:17:28 am

I don't much care for either Levi or Joe McGinniss in interviews. Levi comes across as dopey and inarticulate and McGinniss seems to squirm, though he is articulate. Perhaps it is better to listen to a radio interview of McGinniss than watch. Neither is someone I want to see.

I'll read about these two, just as I read about Palins interviews, as I cannot stand her voice or antics.

Joe does discect her persona nicely.

lilly lily

9/21/2011 03:29:15 am

LOL. Jessica Biel is playing a hugely pregnant woman, and there are pictures of her (plasic like flesh) baby bump slipping.

More rumors about the Palins divorcing in the Daily Mail. Todd is supposedly fed up. And she has also been informed that she won't be welcomed as a candidate because McGinniss's book opens the door to digging into her past behavior.

Her own brother talks to others about a divorce????? Not the first time. Just after her affair with Brad she became pregnant with Piper and the Palins stuck it out.

9/21/2011 03:32:44 am

@everspring, can you please explain how your theory jibs with the photographs that we saw of Tripp through 2009, for example as an infant on the cover of People, and as a one-year old in 1/2010 in In Touch weekly?

curiouser

9/21/2011 03:36:32 am

If it's time for The View in your part of the world, turn it on. Barbara Walters says they'll discuss babygate (didn't use that word) after the break. Which is now.

elizabeth

9/21/2011 03:37:57 am

I rec'd my copy of 'The Rogue' yesterday. This, BTW, is the first and only Sarah Palin book I've paid cold-cash for. I do not regret it. I didn't think I would even have time to open it until this weekend but I found myself unable to sleep last night so about 11:00pm opened it up and planned to just read a couple chapters. I read until 1:30am and got up to Chapter 8. I also skipped ahead and read Chapter 19 and to the end. I hope to finish it tonight.

I agree with those who says that those of who have followed Palin closely won't find any shattering 'smoking guns' but here is the thing about this book. Almost everything we have heard through snippets on blogs, in scattered posts and unsubstantiated rumors is laid out from start to finish in a very easy-to-read, comprehensive manner.Even though I'm only 1/2 way through the book I think I can state unequivocally that this book is devastating for Sarah Palin. The only thing that will save her here is if she can convince people not to read the book. Because I don't think anyone who reads the book will ever think about Sarah Palin favorably again.

The problem here for Sarah Palin is that her whole entire career has been based upon promoting a hidden agenda that was accomplished through complete deception and lies. The most disturbing parts of the books to me is how systemically and ruthlessly she implemented her agenda without hours of being given even the small, limited power of a small-time mayor.

She is beyond belief.

Let me also say that I found the whole Glen Rice revelation to be a very small and insignificant aside in the book. It is telling about our media and sadly 'us' that this is the tidbit that the media has latched on to. It is far, far more disturbing that Sarah Palin winked, flirted and lied her way into local government so that she could cram through her Evangelical agenda.

She is a deceitful, dishonest, imperious fraud. I don't see how anyone anywhere no matter what your religious background could think this would be God's choice for anything!

I have always been of the opinion that Sarah Palin's success lies in her complete psychopathy - meaning she has no compunction with saying or doing whatever it takes to get what she wants - meaning no lie is too big, no person expendable and no friend/family/associate above being used or exploited and/or discarded.

She is a real piece of work and this book is a true testament to that. I recommend it to everyone!

NSG

9/21/2011 03:58:03 am

@elizabeth, very well said! You've hit the nail squarely on its head.

I, also, too, am partway through the book, having gotten through p 190, plus having read Ch 19 ahead, of course. :)

Just a few chapters in, I was fully aware that anyone who's harping on Glen Rice, cocaine on an oil barrel, or where McGinniss lived last summer either a) hasn't read the book, or b) couldn't pass high school English.

Those are minor side points in a much bigger and much more important story. Who was this near-VP, what was her leadership track record, and why the f*** didn't McCain or the national press vet her for more than 10 minutes?!?!?!?!

What has struck me specifically is that for a woman who so flagrantly adorns herself with the mantle of liberty and freedom, she has been mighty quick to use her elected-office powers to rob others of theirs. (e.g., cutting a road to her property thru others' lots without permission or compensation, firing people out of spite or to replace with loyalists, a Dominionist agenda that would deny many their freedom of religion, and so much more.)

The hubris is mind-blowing. The hypocrisy of her behavior that is so antithetical to the values of Christianity AND America that she so obscenely co-opts.

I REALLY hope that as the book is actually bought & read that people will soberly absorb the many ugly truths that Joe has eloquently revealed.

Back to reading. Chapter 14....

nenagh

9/21/2011 03:58:16 am

At Palingates post, Tues Sept 20:Deer in the Headlights: Leadfoot LA, actually read Levi's book..

In the post they state that Levi states that 'Bristol gave birth to Tripp 3 weeks early" therefore the due date was mid to late January.

When Levi was asked by Todd to 'bond' by snowboarding with Todd ... the reasonable question someone raised was.. was Bristol brought in to the hospital to be induced.. which Levi wouldn't have sussed out... and that Bristol's birth date for Tripp was sufficiently early that Bristol could not have birthed two babies..

Think I got that right, Laura, maybe you could check what I read.

What surprised me was the familiar way that Levi spoke of Sarah when the two, Sarah and Levi were with Bristol for the birth.

When you read Levi's writing about the birth of Tripp it seems distinctly odd to me: on the one hand too much info.. and yet the bond between Sarah & Levi seems friendly... not at all what we see these days..

Must go now... just to let you know, it is an excellent post and there are quotes from Levi's book that seem to defy explanation.

jeff

9/21/2011 04:01:35 am

Everspring,

You make a good case for the twin scenario.

Your version is probably more plausible than mine because I'm somewhat entrenched in my thinking that there's a more sinister element here in that the Fundie/Far Right Wing/Bud Paxson power play they put on John McCain is a big part of her "choosing life" for the DS baby, and that CBJ played a role in the procurement of the DS baby in order to shore up the RW of the GOP, who were definitely less than enthusiastic with McCain.

But whenever I try to develop a complete story line for the whole babygate affair, I get a headache before I can get it all lined up.

everspring

9/21/2011 04:07:18 am

jk

I can't explain the pictures we have seen of Tripp at a younger age. All I can say is that there very likely have been several hoaxes perpetuated and we don't know what the truth is.

If Bristol did not stop taking the pill until AFTER Trig was born (mid-April), there was no way Tripp was born at the end of December. Using Trig's birth timeline Tripp would not have been born until probably late January or February 2009 (assuming Bristol got pregnant right away). The early pics we saw of Bristol and Tripp Feb 2009 - Tripp was not a newborn in those. So, what baby was used for those photos?

I know, I know, this gets crazy.

I guess the most logical explanation is that what Levi said pertains to what we believe the actual birth date of Trig is - much earlier than mid-April. If Bristol gave birth to Trig a couple months earlier - let's say mid-Feb.,then the Tripp scenario could have played out. This is assuming Bristol got pregnant 6 weeks after giving birth to Trig.

lilly lily

9/21/2011 04:20:57 am

Went to the message board on the View interview with McGinniss.

All Palin bots who hate him, won't read the book and trash him.

Joy Behar will have him and Levi on her show tonite.

I think the damn on Babygate has finally sprung a tiny leak. May be Sarah can stick one of her bony fingers into it, or her whole hand, or her whole scrawny self in. Because it is coming out, no matter how many Palinbots scream and shout.

lilly lily

9/21/2011 04:45:59 am

The View interview is on Youtube in 2 parts.

Lively.

search4more

9/21/2011 05:16:17 am

Joe McGinniss' The view interview:

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcEX6-7VZY

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMUnfe6uAik

lilly lily

9/21/2011 05:27:38 am

Barbara Walter says everything he writes is unamed sources. He corrects her and says how many are named sources. She says, but they weren't friends. Christ almighty.

Then an African american woman participant acts agrieved "no mother wouldn't feed her children". (she is pretty plump herself). People simply don't get Sarah and her pathology.

People simply can't get it. The woman is totally self centered. No one matters but Sarah Palin. So she is charming, so what?

search4more

9/21/2011 06:43:47 am

I saw the Palin Hannity interview an hour or so ago. She seemed calmer, more relaxed, less shrill. That's not important though. What was interesting was that she was talking about making a decision to join the race in November. .....Not the end of September. It's slipped to November.

Interesting.

Oh, and I suppose I should report that they didn't touch on any of the allegations in Joe's book. I thought that Fox might want to give her a chance to rebut some of the allegations. They are pretending it doesn't exist though. I actually think that is a smart strategy for her at the moment. The media feeds on conflict. Her not saying much about it ensures the story won't last as long.

Laura Novak link

9/21/2011 07:19:23 am

Thanks, Search, for those links. Great intv. They are a shrill bunch, boy. But he held his own. Anyone who has not read his books might not appreciate what a phenomenal writer Joe is. But babygate and her strange story is right out there, front and center now.

And just watching the Hannity intv. with sound off, right off the bad she appears to be a destroyed woman to me. Her posture, deadness in the eyes. She looks, in a word, terrible. Clearly this book has affected her. And I'm not sorry to say that I am glad to report that.

Brad Scharlott

9/21/2011 07:29:46 am

My copy of The Rogue arrived in today's mail – that was quick!

Just read chapter 19. Joe destroys Palin. Anyone who reads the whole chapter will know she perpetrated a hoax.

Nothing truly new in the chapter, but he contextualizes things so well that the reader understands deeply why she must be lying.

So, Joe's wonderful writing ability is on display. I'm glad I bought the book. Will take my time with the rest, however – have work to do.

Laura Novak link

9/21/2011 07:35:31 am

I ordered my book before you and mine hasn't arrived yet!!!! Whaaaaaaaa. Okay, well, good to read this at least from you. Cannot wait. We'll all dissect it together when more of us have read it.

Allie RN

9/21/2011 07:38:51 am

There is a little confusion about the birth control pills. Bristol suggested a pregnancy when Sarah announced hers. That's March 5th. That is when Bristol was angry and stopped taking the pill. She was still talking about getting pregnant around Trig's "birth" because she didn't know yet that she was already pregnant, so she was still trying. The pregnancy test was positive on Levi's birthday, May 3rd. They actually did the test a day or two b4. If she had just stopped taking the pill two weeks earlier, there would have been no way the test would have already been positive. The pill prevents ovulation. When she stopped, she STILL had to ovulate b4 she could get pregnant. All that couldn't have happened in two weeks and boom, positive pregnancy test. They announced the pregnancy May 4th.

All this assumes that Levi's account is accurate and that Sarah delivered Trig on April 18th.

Who is still on that page?

I do think that B&L did find out she was pregnant in early May, having conceived in early April, several weeks following the birth of Trig in February. Just my thoughts.

Tom link

9/21/2011 08:01:55 am

@Lily, I agree. Joe doesn't sell it well on TV. The radio interview was excellent.

@search4more, I feel like I've lived on the edge on my seat from age 17. I'm 60. Give me a little xanax or ativan (sp.) and I'm sittng pretty. Hannity, well, he and Doocy have to be two of the ugliest men ever. It's not their looks. Well, it is their looks or how they look when the say the shit they do. I'm not sure which of them is worse but O'Reilly shines in comparison (and he's an ass).

Lily, again you're right about people not getting SP. Because they haven't spent the time we have, and why would they, her behavior including the ride seems inconceivable. And the black woman? Has she never seen parents treat their kids like shit publicly? of course she has.

And Laura, the shrill of the View ladies? I have eight sisters. All of them are older than me. Try getting in the one bathroom in our house growing up with 8 older sisters. Maybe the reason I've been on the edge of my seat since I was 17 is because I've been constipated since I was 3.

NSG

9/21/2011 08:02:52 am

Hi, @Allie RN--

The account you describe is one version we've heard.

But Levi has just done an interview with HuffPo...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/21/levi-johnston-bristol-palin-book_n_973465.html

...in which he changes an important detail: "Bristol was on birth control for a long time. She got off it soon after Trig [Sarah Palin's son] was born. I think Trig was a big motivator for her. Her mother just had a child and I think Bristol was really jealous. She was the one who was supposed to have that kid and that's when she got off of [birth control]. We weren't practicing safe sex and she ended up getting pregnant."

Obviously, he could have faulty recollection or been confused in the first place or some other motive for this version.

But saying that Bristol didn't stop BCPs and Tripp wasn't conceived until after Trig's birth (allegedly 4/18) is a new wrinkle.

That's what everyone's reacting to.

HTH!

lilly lily

9/21/2011 08:14:30 am

She is singig a different tune on her Hannity stagings.

Tom is right, He is repulsive, ( his black soul) and was before Palin was paired up with him because he is enamoured of her. I don't know how his wife can hack his crush.(I guess the money is too good). Though I think it is fading away just a bit.

Palin is definatly trying to appeal to independents, and she is suceeding from what the polls say.

We know she shifts with the wind and isn't to be trusted. The people that are being swayed (Ralph Nader of all people) don't know her history.

Here is hoping that the Babygate book is a stunner. And released soon before McGinniss's book loses traction.

I'm so sick of her. I want to go on to other things, but I can't let go till she is wasted and out of the political loop, for anything.

FrostyAK

9/21/2011 08:18:18 am

Levi has bald faced lied in the past.

That said, Levi might have some of it right, without even trying. If TriG was born extremely prematurely to Bristle in late January or early February, and the confiscation of the fragile newborn was done almost immediately, then Bristle may have indeed tried to get pregnant immediately. With a realistic due date sometime in December.

Allie RN

9/21/2011 08:24:48 am

Thanks, NSG. Didn't see that. I thought it was interpreting...nevermind; I'll go check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

Brad Scharlott

9/21/2011 08:27:44 am

There's an Amazon distribution center within 100 miles of where I live - everything arrives fast, even using the free shipping, which is supposed to be slower. I got some Indian food to take the total over $25, which you need for free shipping. I love Amazon. What a great country this. What a wonderful century this is to be living in. Don't you just love the planet Earth!

Tom link

9/21/2011 08:37:22 am

'...love the planet Earth!"

I guess it depends on who you are and where you were raised and live. Also, I don't remember being given a choice. Worldwide, I can't imagine things being worse than they are here (but swell that you got your book and food delivered so quickly).

lazrgrl

9/21/2011 08:49:08 am

Tom, you crack me up. My 3 brothers had to go through the one bathroom to get to their bedroom- made for really short baths (no shower in those days).

Also, too, I don't get saving these pregnancy test sticks. I mean, they've been peed on! I'm not the world's best housekeeper by any means, but I can't imagine leaving pee dipped anything around the house, or even worse, in a purse. Eeewww!

FrostyAK

9/21/2011 08:49:33 am

I find it interesting that IM is blocking all comments referring to the past documented LIES of Levi Johnston... I won't speculate publicly about the reasons. I also will not be commenting there anymore.

Thank you, Laura for a forum where we can say what is on our minds as long as we are respectful of other commenters.

Allie RN

9/21/2011 08:50:17 am

Looks like Levi needs to refresh his memory.

BTW, for those of you not reading his book, the green shirt Levi picture is included and he identifies the baby he is holding as Trig (with "Sarah in the bed" next to him -- he's sitting on the sofa.) at Mat-Su.

Ottoline

9/21/2011 08:53:29 am

Remember when Osama bin Laden was killed? Right near the big campus of Pakistan's West Point equivalent. So the question was: did they know bin Laden was there? and were duplicitous in not telling us?

Or didn't they know? And were inept or stupid?

That's the deal with Palin, as long as we are still Trignostics about it. Was Palin hoaxing us? Or was she taking giant risks with her baby?

Lying or stupid? Just like the Pakistani military academy.

(I am not Trignostic: the Mar 14 photo tells me she was not pregnant.)(Am I cranky about it? Yes I am. My book is not here yet, and I wish I could believe that "Fred" is working hard enough. )

Allie RN

9/21/2011 09:04:48 am

Tom, you poor thing! Try this: every one of your sisters is going to be OLD before you are! :)

Brad, congratulations on getting your article published! It's a start on its way to a tsunami of publishing. Hear! Hear!

One minor editorial note for you. 8/29 is McCain's birthday and he announced his VP pick on that day, rather than 8/28. Could just be a typo.

SLQ

9/21/2011 09:05:06 am

FrostyAK, I don't think Gryphen is "blocking all comments referring to the past documented LIES of Levi Johnston..."

There are plenty of people pointing out inconsistencies in his story. What Gryphen is blocking is a troll who has been attempting to monopolize his blog. As his post states, the posts are from one, maybe two people (which he can tell from his stats), and they have been making the same posts over and over for the last several days.

I know Laura has noticed similar behavior here, and has taken action when necessary. Those trolls can really be a pain.

Ottoline

9/21/2011 09:08:13 am

We have so many suspicions, and no way to proceed.
--The photos of Piper and the Menard daughter are eerie. (Thx ProChoiceGrandma)
--The suspicion re the Menard death and the Dar death seems reasonable.
--We have all along suspected sexual abuse of SP as a child, based on her adult behavior.
--We have many theories/scenarios about who did/said what to whom.
--The circumstances of dairygate, housegate, Alaska-Fund-gate seem crooked.
--We see little progress on BabyGate, or the PalinHoax.
--The MD letter, unconfirmed by the MD who wrote it, is prob a fake.

I know, we are supposed to be patient.

nancydrewed link

9/21/2011 09:10:57 am

@Tom. You and your 8 older sisters. :-)). (Oh, and my black eyes are healing nicely, thanks).

I hope when all is said and done that the bloggers go public, gather and hold a little press conference to take a bow for their work. I'd love to see them in one spot for a spirited roundtable discussion. Maybe the MSM could go out of its way to boycott, busy as it will be wiping off large amounts of egg. Fools and naifs. (And they're supposed to be the jaded sophisticates).

Books in print don't go away. Which reminds me -- maybe Bree Palin stored her blog entries/comments before taking them down. That was fine stuff that deserves resurrecting. Maybe another future book?

Tom link

9/21/2011 09:13:10 am

In case you've missed it this is front page on Yahoo's trending list. Take a peek.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040110/Todd-Palin-file-divorce-advisers-tell-Sarah-White-House-dream-over.html?ITO=1490

Floyd M. Orr link

9/21/2011 09:29:29 am

NancyDrewed, do not expect a book or any resurrected blog material from Bree. My understanding is that she has no interest in further public blogging about the subject. That is why she completely deleted her blog. Bree has been my most treasured resource for PARADIGM SHIFT since the beginning. Of course you are aware of the extensive interview I did with Bree that is in the book. She ended her Bree Palin blog in March 2010 and it is no coincidence that my Palin Babygate blog picked up where she left off. She is, indeed, one smart lady, but I think she prefers to remain behind the scenes. She pops up on the blogs with an occasional comment.

Melly

9/21/2011 09:45:24 am

BTW, for those of you not reading his book, the green shirt Levi picture is included and he identifies the baby he is holding as Trig (with "Sarah in the bed" next to him -- he's sitting on the sofa.) at Mat-Su.

**********

Holy cow Allie, she really went for the full fakeout But surely there are picture of Sarah w/Trig if there are pictures of Levi w/Trig. C'mon Sarah, indulge us. Circulate some of them. Still can't figure out why your daughter's boyfriend is one of the first people to get to hold Trig!

Brad Scharlott

9/21/2011 09:49:45 am

Gosh, Allie, I can't remember where I got the date. I'll take your word on it being the 29th. But I am pretty sure the ArcXIX article in Daily Kos came out the 28th - I think I just assumed that the article could not predate the announcement - unless there was a lot of speculation the day before. Maybe that's the case.

FrostyAK

9/21/2011 10:10:12 am

@SLQ - I am not a troll. My comment was blocked at IM. I am done with his hypocrisy about certain participants in the hoax. There is not one resident of Wasilla that should be put on a pedestal.

But this is not a conversation we need to get into in Laura's house. My only concern is to stop $P from political office. I don't think many countries are still accepting American expatriates...

Palinoia

9/21/2011 10:23:32 am

Love all the comments!

Is up up, or down down anymore? or is up really down and down really up?

I'm so confused! Levi said, Sarah said, then Joe said.

My take so far: I do think that throughout all of this HOAXing that there are threads of truth being said, they just don't apply to the people they are being attributed to.

Example: Levi and the month of leaking amniotic fluid comment. Well, that certainly COULD have happened, just not to Sarah. It could have happened to Bristol though, and certainly would be a reason for an early/pre-mature delivery of Trig.

Bristol stopping her birth control pills OBVIOUSLY happened (Tripp is here now), but was that really before Tripp, or before Trig?

Levi says the green shirt picture is of him and Trig. That certainly could be true, but it wasn't Sarah in the bed.

I won't even go into the ick factor of a 44 year old giving birth to a known Down baby prematurely and having the daughter's BOYFRIEND in the room within minutes or hours of said event!!!! at the crack of dawn no less!!!!

Most everything said is partially true, we just have to mix and match the correct pieces together!

Palinoia

9/21/2011 10:24:05 am

Not true: Sarah being pregnant. I'm certain of that much!

Laura Novak link

9/21/2011 10:32:50 am

Palinoia, Well said! And yes, um, I'm kinda of stumbling over the teenage boyfriend in the hospital room, with his germs (did they tell him to wash his hands?) at that hour of the morning, holding a newborn while she is IN THE BED right there?

Excuse me ???? (digging finger in ear to make sure nothing preventing me from hearing correctly)

Allow me to shout that this time: EXCUSE ME?????

nancydrewed link

9/21/2011 11:07:42 am

@Floyd -- OK, I went back and re-read your chapter with the Bree Palin interview. She doesn't specifically say that she didn't download everything before deleting the blog. I know if I'd done all that creative work, I wouldn't have been able to resist keeping it for future reference or at the very least a stash of memorabilia. ;-) A gal can hope, you know.

Viola-Alex

9/21/2011 11:25:18 am

I had to stop plowing through Joe's book. I just began to feel sick, tired, and dirty. It's as much about this age we live in as it is his portrait of the Sarah Palin we already knew and of the supporting cast, Piper with her smile of a "ten-term congressman."

And now Levi's "book."

Here it is. This age of --if I write it (or hire someone to write it) it's true--

I have spent my life believing in and loving words. Books were how I survived my childhood. And now I feel like the sacred nature of books has been stolen from me, as they are now held hostage as vehicles of marketed meaningless.

I'm just sad. Not even mad anymore. Just sad.

This is a place I can say this, to people who have accompanied me during this strange three years. But I may be done.

Olivia

9/21/2011 11:36:33 am

The teenage boyfriend of the teenage daughter being in the room just hours after birth kind of "refudiates" Sarah's claim that she hardly knew Levi and he just wasn't around that much.

Tom link

9/21/2011 11:48:11 am

@Allie--Yeah, they're all older than me except that now I'm old. There are a few of them who still sort of watch over me.

@Nancydrewed--Thanks for the smile. Glad the black eyes are getting yellow. Still wish I was there for your trip.

@Viola--Chin up, girl. I'd miss your lovely voice.

Conscious at last!

9/21/2011 12:19:33 pm

Late night brain chatter-- : )

Hey friends, we all knew that anyone who gets close to a Palin is:

A) young and doesn't know any better

B) unsure of themselves, confused, can't see straight

C) will be used and discarded

D) all of the above or any combo

Thus, we shouldn't be surprised that any books by Palins, Johnstons, etc. are troubling, dishonest or confusing. Why take any of them seriously? They offer little to the conversation and are each individually compromised for various reasons. Let's not get discouraged about this. By my lights, it's what we ought to expect. (There's plenty of other good stuff to read!)

However, I do believe that we have reached an important point as far as Granny Grifters's career. Babygate was discussed openly on the View. This may be significant. SP now says(I'm chuckling) that she'll wait till November to decide if she'll enter the election. For anyone who still doesn't realize this is a tease-- well, we've all got a bridge to nowhere to sell ya!

In case no one noticed-- I think the
lights have been turned ON!!

everspring

9/21/2011 12:42:20 pm

It really is hard to keep up with all the lies and misinformation.

"Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said." --Mark Twain

search4more

9/21/2011 12:48:05 pm

Can I please clarify something? There are 2 images of Trig at the hospital that I'm aware of. In one Levi is holding Trig and in the other Sally Heath is holding Trig standing next to her husband Chuck. How much time elapses between those 2 images? Which comes first? Who took the photograph of Levi with Trig? wasn't it in the possession of Mercede? ...So she took it right? The person that took it was in the room too.

I'm just interested because your all talking about Levi being there just after the birth, but Trig is wearing different clothes (by clothes I mean hats and blankets) in each image. I assume they were taken on different days. Is that right?

everspring

9/21/2011 12:50:43 pm

Joy Behar - just watched Joe McGinniss. Hate to say it but I think he is getting a bit exasperated with some of the questions and that probably won't go over well for book sales. I'm sure it's frustrating to try to keep explaining the same things over and over to people who haven't become as familiar with SP as we all have over the years.

One thing he did say was that Levi knows how to get Bristol pregnant and then something about condoms. I recall that on another interview quite sometime ago he said that he didn't always use a condom and that's why Bristol got pregnant. Now, he says it's because she stopped taking birth control pills. Another freaking lie - how can we keep this all straight?

Tom link

9/21/2011 12:51:12 pm

@Viola

Viola, could you please do me a favor and read, if you haven't already, a novel by A.M. Homes entitled 'This Book Will Save Your Life.'

Homes is very funny and she creates characters that would in no way be described as commonplace. This sounds like a self-help book, I know, and in a way it is. It's uplifting but not at all in the way anyone would expect. If a novel can uplift me, an extremely cynical man (I'll leave it at that---could go on), that's saying a lot.

You'll love A.M. Homes. She's best known for her novel, 'Music for Torching', another good one.

Please.

curiouser

9/21/2011 12:58:23 pm

Is it normal for a woman to still have an IV in her arm 4 hours after having an induced delivery?

curiouser

9/21/2011 01:12:34 pm

My experience is, even after a C-section, the IV is removed after the 1-2 hr recovery.

SLQ

9/21/2011 01:56:06 pm

FrostyAK, sorry, I didn't realize you had a comment blocked. I was just going by what I thought had happened, but it appears I was wrong. I do know that several people had asked him to block the troll comments.

nenagh

9/21/2011 02:35:22 pm

I don't envy Levi's situation, The Palin family have his son Tripp, a human bargaining chip and Trig, a human mystery child whom Levi was seen cradling in his arms protectively presumably as a fragile infant.. Unless that really was Tripp.

I had the experience many years ago of having a beautiful, newly married, sister-in-law who had some escalating conflicts with our mother in law. We were married to two brothers. As young people will do, for many years my husband and I tended to blame the conflicts on the elder woman... maybe she was getting forgetful, we thought..It was hard to understand what was going on. But we loved Granny nonetheless.

Meanwhile the young couple who had newly inherited a family business, were living like royalty.. revamped their apartment, purchased deluxe cars and clothes etc.. while my husband was trying to get a Law business off the ground. We all lived in a small town.

But one day the phone rang at home, and when I answered an irate female voice said.. We have sent you the bill every month for nine months and you have not paid us.. Isn't it time you paid the bill? Her voice dripped with scorn. The caller was the wife of the owner of a large building supply company in the town.

When I asked her what the money I owed her was for... she said it was for my bathtub with the relaxation jets..

But I said, we don't own such a fancy tub.. we have the original one that came with the house.

There was a very, very long pause on the other end of the phone as she realized how nasty her tone of voice had been to me.

Then, in a quiet voice she said, but we delivered the tub to your sister-in-law.. and she said it didn;t fit.. and that you had taken it..

And because I was Canadian, moved to a little town in Ireland, as my husband said... it would seem very appropriate that I demanded the tub with the bells and whistles.. presumably because I was used to the fancier stuff.

Unfortunately this girl was doing the bookkeeping of the two businesses, one owned by her husband and the other by the Granny, and her lies and essentially theft went on for years but it escalated once we left the district.

I still remember my amazement at outright lies regarding the tub.. and I am reminded of Sarah Palin doing what she must to get what she wanted.

So I see Levi, caving to the demands of Sarah Palin because if he outs her significantly, the Palin bot driven gravy train slows down.. and there is his son or sons.. trapped with an angry and vindictive woman. He seems already to be at that point, however.

Ottoline

9/21/2011 03:20:19 pm

Viola-Alex: Like you, I'm worn out with it. I'm not that interested in comparing Levi's latest version with other versions. I don't care if a birth cert or eyewitness to the "birth" comes forward, or if Chuck embellishes exactly how Trig "popped out."

Just explain the Mar 14 photo. And the other key photos. Call me when that happens.

But unlike you, it doesn't depress me re books, which are one of my enduring loves too. Good nooks, that is. What has been written in a book, when compared after this is all over, will indict the liars. As it has throughout history. I'm thinking of other hoaxes, and also of historical fiction I've read when I really wanted to know only the real true story. Like when I had a jones for Mary Q of Scots, Anne Boleyn, and Q Eliz I. So much junk has been written, not really maliciously but nonsense just the same. Then came Antonia Fraser's scholarly and fascinating bio of M Q of Scots! Wow! What a thrill. So don't let SP ruin books for you. They are still our best ally in all this, eventually.

Ottoline

9/21/2011 03:30:42 pm

Hahaha -- Good books and good nooks. Good bookies and nookie, too. :-)

Plus: elitism! The elitism of the actual best truth. There's so much else, but at the top of the pile (in the hard-earned elite part of the pile) is the truth, which has been tested in the crucibles of time, criss-cross criticism, scholarly work, and by the authorities we eventually come to trust. Or not quite, as in my disappointment with McGinniss re his Ted Kennedy bio, and his leaking the Bailey ms. This will always linger as a caveat when I read what otherwise seems a book lots of people have liked, and I bet I will to.

Viola-Alex

9/21/2011 03:50:51 pm

@Ottoline - you made me smile just thinking of Antonia Frasier writing Sarah Palin's biography. Oh, and the nookie bookie.

@Tom - thank you for your kind words. I will look for the book that will save my life. : )

I also will look forward to discussing Joe's book when Laura's ready. For me, Levi's "book" is just more Palin camp bullshit.

Rationalist

9/21/2011 03:52:17 pm

V-A - I know the feeling you're describing. I've reached that point with this so many times, and am feeling it now too.

It may be a while, but truth will out. I believe that.

Allie RN

9/21/2011 04:29:11 pm

Here is the exact quote under Levi's picture:

That is just-born Trig Palin. I’m on the sofa in Sarah’s hospital suite-delivery room. She was snoozing in the bed next to me, exhausted.

Johnston, Levi (2011-09-20). Deer in the Headlights (Kindle Locations 2991-2992). Touchstone. Kindle Edition.

My overall impression is that Levi wrote the book for two people, Tripp and himself, to regain a measure of self-respect. Also, he was careful to toe the party line. One thing he made sure to do was to refute the rape accusation (at the end of the book.) I was left with the very distinct impression that Sarah had a cougar crush on him. Levi didn't describe it that way, might not have recognized it, but it was plain as day and fits with her scheming character of male manipulation. Thus, Bristol was competition, and once SP figured out that she didn't have a shot with Levi, he became tissue to her...disposable.

I don't think Levi was aware of the dynamics well enough to have intentionally portrayed it that way in the book if that wasn't what really happened.

He is between a rock and a hard place as far as Tripp is concerned and nothing will be easy for the next 15 years, but he is a survivor. I hope like hell that Tripp is.

Allie RN

9/21/2011 04:51:25 pm

About the IV -- with prolonged ruptured membranes, the woman would be getting antibiotics given through the IV, so she would have it for 24 hours at least. You know, if she were pregnant and actually delivered a baby.

I noticed a comment on IM tonight that said that Sarah had a C/Section with Piper. That just opens another whole can of worms. Has anyone ever heard this? In a way, I hope it is true, because it really drives a big fat stake through the heart of the Wild Ride followed by induction and vaginal delivery bullchit. :)

Wondering about Me Again latest comments? Looking at you, Brad. Here they are:

Hi there. It's "me again", as I see I've been dubbed.

I just wanted to answer your question--no, I have not contacted Gryphen yet. I have an early lunch meeting with an attorney today because I just want to make sure I can't get in trouble for anything I'm planning to share with Gryphen should he choose to publish it. I am reasonably sure based upon my own research that I'm in the clear on MOST of it. But since we all know how vindictive Sarah can be, I just want to make SURE I stay within the bounds of absolute legal propriety.

Sarah is on the brink these days, if her spastic bam-bam-bam emails are an indication. She's barking orders and obviously has learned NOTHING...she's trying to get people to write fake bad reviews of Joe's book.

She thinks it's actually a victory that Brad's article was "only" published in an online magazine. She was worried it would be printed in a "real magazine". I think she is trying to make her little circle believe she's not too affected by it...but she is running scared. I know she has made more inquiries about getting a fake birth certificate and she has talked to Parnell about getting in front of the story--releasing the truth on her own terms and having her base perceive her as a martyr.

BUT...Parnell rightly says "it's those damn speeches" and Going Rogue--once you accept millions of dollars for telling a story that's nothing but fantastical lies...martyrdom is pretty much out of the picture.

Sarah is still under pressure to produce Trig for a photo op. Even her staunchest supporters are asking why Trig hasn't been seen in SO long...when he USED to be paraded about like he was sponsored by Macy's. I'm interested to see how she will respond to the mounting pressure. I wouldn't be surprised if she fakes or stages a photo op with a different child. Not just because Trig seems to loathe her and won't allow her to hold or hug him, but because he is getting very chubby (NOT the word Sarah used about her "gift from God") and she thinks people will say she must not feed him healthy food or say she's a bad mother. Ship, meet sailed.

I just wanted to provide that little update. Off to get ready for my meeting with legal eagle.

I know

9/21/2011 06:05:14 pm

"because he is getting very chubby"

So, you prove you're a liar once again. Trig is far from chubby. Sarah's sister uploaded pics from late July of Trig with Kyle and his brother and her son. His weight is sustaining itself.

By all means Anon, keep digging yourself into a hole. I can spot your lies from 100 ft away.

Sid and Nancy

9/21/2011 06:17:09 pm

It is a mark of insanity to think ANYONE can write a more precise biography of someone than the subject could.

No matter who that writer might be, there's just no way to accurately grasp who someone is just by talking to people. I keep thinking about everyone who Ive encountered in life at different stages.

We evolve constantly.

As a child and teen, Sarah was a bookworm, shy, yet friendly and stubborn

As a college student, she was described by her roommate, someone who didnt recognize politician Sarah, as steadfast and someone who missed Alaska

As a pageant participant, Sarah was described as supportive, brought out the best in everyone, not your typical pageant type

Glen rice apparently thought the world of her and remembers that time fondly

i've read encounters during the mayoral years that Sarah was friendly to the random "average Joe". I cannot refute or confirm any anon stories so I will leave it at that.

It appears to me that once Sarah as elected mayor, she might have started to see bigger opportunities. I was engaging a former citizen of Wasilla who is still very much friends with everyone from Class of 82 and goes there semi regularly. She says people are burned out on the media attention and most just try to go about living with paying it any mind. She says her opinion on why some people speak out against Sarah is because Sarah was the type who used to have time for people but when her career started taking more time, that became harder to do. People felt betrayed somewhat at the loss of friendship. This does happen frequently to people who become more successful so I can imagine this being true. Just imagine your children and yourself having girlfriend time and playmates then that time becomes less and less.

Ottoline

9/21/2011 06:37:40 pm

Sid and Nancy: What you say may be true, but it is also true that Palin was not pregnant as stated with Trig -- so a whole other population of people nationally have every right to feel betrayed by that enormous lie.

If you think Palin DID give birth to Trig, then please explain how the Mar 14 photo (and the others) can exist:

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/pp141/WestCorrespondent/Sarah%20Palin/?action=view¤t=5weekstobaby.jpg

COMEONPEOPLE

9/21/2011 09:27:56 pm

Was reading early this am before work. I will spend some more time later really looking at Sarah's doodle page in Joe's book. One thing that struck me immediately was she doodled graduate of Wasilla High then under that she put University of Idaho. I find that intriguing. If she really graduated, she could have put graduate of WHS and UI, But she put it in a list form, so it should be "graduate of" in each line. Just some early morning musings. Her Name is the biggest doodle on the page, surprise surprise. And this doodle was done during a city council meeting.
It would be interesting to hear what a psychiatrist or psychologist thinks of this doodle of the mind of SARAH PALIN!!

Karen

9/21/2011 11:08:18 pm

Sid & Nancy, I've gotta give you credit. Whenever I have to come up with a password or user name for anything it takes me forever. It literally took me 10 minutes yesterday for a new password. But you just whip up new user names and throw them away like used toilet paper. All these new identities just coming and going like ships that pass through the night.

FrostyAK, this individual is one of the ones that IM is blocking. A few of my comments also haven't gotten through of late, though he seems to be releasing them in batches rather than having an open thread, so sometimes they are further back than you'd think.

rubbernecking

9/21/2011 11:27:05 pm

@AllieRN, here's a link to a news article about Piper's birth: http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2001/03/23/local_headlines.txt

According to the article, Palin gave birth at 11:30 AM on a Monday and stopped by the mayor's office on Tuesday to forward her vmail. So I'm guessing she did not have a C section.

Palin made a big deal about Piper being "convenient" because she was born on her due date. She also bragged she was not taking maternity leave. Crazy how Palin just reenacted the same scripts whenever she changed jobs.

NSG

9/21/2011 11:43:14 pm

@Allie RN, thanks for passing the latest Anon post!

But now I'm curious. I checked on the Broomfield post, and I even saw a comment at IM that that's where it was, and now I don't see it there. I only see 280 comments as of now, and that's not one of them.

Does anyone have current access to it? I'm curious to see it, but also if it was "disappeared" for some reason. Maybe Anon had 2nd thoughts, or Gryphen had some reason to remove it....

Lidia17

9/21/2011 11:55:34 pm

Levi on HuffPo: "She was the one who was supposed to have that kid"

Is that what someone whose mom was pregnant again would really think: "I'M the one who's supposed to HAVE THAT KID"?!?!

What a statement! Thanks, Jeff!

Floyd M. Orr link

9/21/2011 11:55:39 pm

NSG, Anon's latest comment is on the Thank You post instead of the Broomfield post.

9/21/2011 11:56:45 pm

My dive down the rabbit hole:

I keep thinking about Levi's comment "That baby should have been hers (Bristol's)", and a comment posed earlier in this thread outlining why the Palin's might be covering for Molly Heath's child.

What if... the original plan was to cover for Molly by saying the baby was Bristol's?The Palin family would adopt the baby as there's, Bristol would be the fallen, but repentant, teen mother, and maybe even be able to join her mother on the campaign circuit to discuss teen abstinence. Who would suspect Molly in a teenager's pregnancy? Bristol, loving babies, and wanting one of her own, would be all over this idea, perhaps even planting some of the pregnancy rumors. She'd probably already picked a name for the baby out in her head (Trig was Tripp before he was Trig).

When the baby was born prematurely, and with Downs, the plan quickly changed. The Palin family would still raise him, but now it made more sense for Sarah to claim him, thus the quickly pregnancy and trying to quell the rumors of Bristol's pregnancy. Bristol was furious at her role being taken from her, and so got pregnant as a result. Levi and the rest of the Johnstons were in the dark about the whole thing.

-TT

lilly lily

9/21/2011 11:57:19 pm

Oh Lord almighty.

Sid and Nancy has a friend in the class of 82 and gives us their drip, drip, drip, drip excuse of why people hate Sarah.

Palin isn't paying attention to her haters, and that is why they trash the woman.

How many times have you posted that little gem of wisdom?

curiouser

9/22/2011 12:11:23 am

Allie - Thanks for explaining an IV. I suppose if one were properly faking a birth, an IV would be a useful prop.

I don't see any trace of a new Anon comment at the IM Broomfield post either. There should at least be a record of a comment showing it was deleted. Is it possible you found it on a different post?

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-about-nick-broomfields-documentary.html?commentPage=2

Lidia17

9/22/2011 12:26:26 am

Viola-Alex, I know exactly what you mean about losing the integrity, value, and now even the meanings of words.

Similarly, I've been realizing that if I turn everything upside-down the world makes far more sense: if you regard the purpose of every social institution, public or private, as the OPPOSITE of what it really is, you will come closer to the truth: schools do not exist to educate, banks do not exist to lend to viable enterprises, the military does not exist to defend us, etc.

I find reading Orwell's essays a perverse form of comfort. They sound quite modern in that nothing is particularly new under the sun about this state of affairs… it's just that each generation has to go through a cycle of awareness about it, I suppose.

Lidia17

9/22/2011 12:30:36 am

curiouser, IF Levi is telling the truth about having seen Sarah with an I/V, there must not have been any needle.

Several of the health-care-connected folks looked at the video/images of Sarah in the red shirt "presenting" Trig (actually it was Todd holding him the whole time) and she had no marks from any I/V on the back of her hands, which is where it is universally inserted in this day and age, apparently.

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 12:49:12 am

Don't many people get the IV in the vein in the crook of the elbow?

If CBJ was staging a faking birth scene, giving Palin an IV hookup with a fluid drip wouldn't be a big deal.

curiouser

9/22/2011 01:01:56 am

Lidia - Yup. IV's are taped down anyway so no one would notice if there wasn't a needle in place.

jeff

9/22/2011 01:05:41 am

@Sid and Nancy,

"It is a mark of insanity to think ANYONE can write a more precise biography of someone than the subject could."

Precise? Do you mean "accurate"? The volume of lies in Sarah Palin's "Going Rogue" has been documented by many, so if you are seeking the truth versus her nonsense, it is readily available.

Insanity? From a biased perspective such as yours, it appears that is merely a label for anyone who disagrees with your version of "the truth" which comes from the least credible source imaginable.

But the key word in your statement is "could", and in using that word, you are suggesting that "could" is synonymous with "the ability to" and the "the willingness to". Your assumptions do not pass the smell test of any intelligent, objective person.

If a subject is unable to see herself in terms of reality, then that subject's autobiography will certainly be littered with inaccuracies that would not withstand the vetting process of an objective person questioning multiple other observers to the same event. The subject's ideal self, as the subjects views him/her self, will exhibit a distorted view of reality. In other words, it will be real and, thus, accurate, ONLY in the mind of the subject (or, in your case, the mind of those with the inability to think for themselves). A pathological compulsive liar might actually believe her own delusions in some cases, and often will convince the naive of their fabrications, but that still doesn't make them the truth. Numerous instances are included throughout Sarah's autobiography, but might be overlooked by someone lacking critical thinking skills.

Likewise, if someone is so willingly averse to the truth regarding any situation in which she is not presented in the most favorable light, then only the most ignorant would conclude that the memoirs of a this person, a habitual compulsive liar, would be a more accurate than those of a professional whose work is recognized for its painstaking attention to accuracy in sourcing and verifying information.

Much of the information released in Mr McGinniss book is public information that has been documented through the years about Sarah Palin. Your own aversion to weighing the volumes of readily available data and commentary make you the least reliable source of all--- neither willful ignorance nor blind allegiance are admirable traits, unless you are intent on supporting a compulsive habitual liar like Sarah Palin. It has long been recognized in the public forum that Sarah has an aversion to the truth. Evidently you have found your twin in that regard.

Words have meanings. Of course, that probably seems like an insane proposition to someone for whom the truth is an unwelcome stranger.

The rest of your screed is based upon this same misinformed, faulty logic, which is based upon either your desire to deceive or your own inability or unwillingness to recognize and espouse the truth. Either way, it deserves no commentary other than that of a professional mental health professional of your own choosing.

If you need a referral, contact Andrew Breitbart. If he's not currently seeking mental assistance, perhaps you might convince him of his own break with reality, and then after entering treatment, the two of you can start your own support group.

NSG

9/22/2011 01:29:23 am

@Floyd, thanks for pointing me to the "Thank You" post for Anon238's latest. Trying to keep my bookmarks and records current! :)

For others who were looking, here's the link:
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=9361564&postID=7475854603887705760

Mhurka

9/22/2011 01:29:47 am

I don't know if it has been mentioned before but I believe that Levi might have let the cat out of the bag big time when he recounted the story of sp getting home and wanting to see her grandson. She was given Trig and allegedly said -No, not the retarded one. (She actually should have said -No, Trig is my son, I said grandson.)
In that story she is behaving as if Trig is one of her two grandsons. In my mind, at least, this is one example of incontrovertible proof.

NSG

9/22/2011 01:38:58 am

@Sid and Nancy, I just want to chime in with some additional perspective in support of what @jeff said.

I've written before that I believe one part of my interest in the SP story is that my mother is very likely Borderline Personality Disorder, which has a lot of overlap with NarcissisticPD and Bi-Polarism. There's ample evidence that SP also has some form of pathology along these lines, and that's one of the things that piques my curiosity about her and others' reactions to her.

I GUARANTEE you that if my BPD mother attempted to write her own biography, it would be RIDDLED with factual errors. Part of her pathology is blatant revisionism. She can't live with the reality of some of her actions and exchanges, so she often shades and re-writes her history to put her in a better light. (This is part of the classic "black & white" thinking where everyone & everything is either good or bad.)

Other family members & friends & I routinely have to check in with each other to ask, "Am I crazy, or didn't it really happen this way, vs that way that she's remembering?"

So where SP is concerned, I have to imagine that, even more than @jeff so well describes, Palin's efforts would be way more fiction that fact.

Sure, she will obviously have access to the best fact record, but she can't even see it all herself, let alone paint that kind of picture of who she is and what she's done.

Viola-Alex

9/22/2011 01:41:24 am

Yesterday my husband had a long overdue day off. The San Diego weather was perfect, we biked, ate, talked. He's tolerated my obsession with Palin and even at times, feigned an interest so I'll talk about it to him. He's a good man. But yesterday I told him how filthy I felt after reading Joe's book, and how tired I was of making sense of things that were utter nonsense (Levi's book.)

AND THEN, and this is the important part, I described to him the community of bloggers and commenters who have become a force to be reckoned with, and who will be, I believe, a historical precedent when this woman is brought down. You all aren't random twitterers, you are individual authorities who bring your best to this complex issue. I can name maybe a hundred of you by your comment names-- and you all bring a knowledgeable perspective of some kind. Some of you, like me, are cheerleaders on the sideline, but we, too, keep our rabble roused.

I told my husband about Palinoia's insurance post, about Allie's nursing posts, about Lidia's videos, Brad's scholarship, Floyd's matrix, and Laura's willingness to create this community.

Suddenly I felt better. That all these strangers have banded together to do something professionals should have done and didn't. (Republican Party, John McCain and his staff, journalists, Alaskans)

So here it is a new day. I'm back in the fray.

And in the final words of my husband, before we went in to cook dinner together, "What you all need is a Judas."

Yes, indeed. Until then, keep on keeping on, everybody. Whatever line of questioning floats your boat. Bless your little hearts!

Sarah Palin was almost a heartbeat away from the presidency of this country. We can never forget that fact.

Fact.

jeff

9/22/2011 01:45:26 am

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 02:06:04 am

Jeez already. A biography, by definition, is an account of SOMEONE ELSE's life.

Not complicated. Let's move on.

Tom link

9/22/2011 02:11:32 am

Hold your damn horses on the Judas comment. Like Mary Magdalen (maybe Christ's best friend), Thomas the Apostle (the one with the good sense to see and touch the proof), Judas may have gotten a bad rap. Nikos Kazantzakis protrays Judas as the brains of the outfit and the only one willing to give Jesus up to fulfill the prophecies.

I welcome any second guessing of the Bible, Part I and Part II. To think that a whoile world of people have been led by stories passed on through the ages, fireside stories almost, is bewildering. We can't get peoople to take the Trig business seriously yet the very people defending and promoting SP would swear on a Stack of Bibles that the evrything in the Bible is literally true.

About Thomas, his name was Didymus, meaning 'twin' in both Greek and Aramaic. The 'doubter' meaning of Thomas is a result of his good sense. Ask anyone what 'Thomas' means and if they have an answer it'll be 'doubter' 99.9% of the time. That's what happens when wrong information is passed down through the ages. It becomes truth.

Then there's the Immaculate Conception...

Susan

9/22/2011 02:13:18 am

Flloyd M. Orr -

With all due respect, not everyone believes Anon238 (or, "it's me again") is a real insider.

You said, "I can absolutely assure you that Joe McG is NOT the legendary Anon, and there are many reasons for this. Please quit looking a gift horse (Anon) in the mouth"

I gotta ask these questions -

1. How is it you can assure us that Joe McG is not Anon238 (what are the many reasons for this, as you state)?

2. The "legendary" Anon? huh?

3. What "gifts" has Anon given?

I'm no anonymous commenter and no troll. I've seen little things in Anon's comments that have ME reserving judgment. Look, I'm an optimist, almost to a fault, but I am also a healthy skeptic. If I wasn't I'd be over at C4P and not here. My motto is "don't write checks that your a** can't cash." Well, I haven't seen a check from Anon yet. Nor a new lead. And I'm waiting to see if Gryphen validates him/her as a real "source."

Have I missed something?

Susan in MD

I'm NOT saying Anon is not legit. I'm saying I DON'T know. kthxbai :)

everspring

9/22/2011 02:17:09 am

From Mhurka - EXCELLENT CATCH

"I don't know if it has been mentioned before but I believe that Levi might have let the cat out of the bag big time when he recounted the story of sp getting home and wanting to see her grandson. She was given Trig and allegedly said -No, not the retarded one. (She actually should have said -No, Trig is my son, I said grandson.)
In that story she is behaving as if Trig is one of her two grandsons. In my mind, at least, this is one example of incontrovertible proof."

NSG

9/22/2011 02:41:10 am

@Susan, Floyd was responding to my request for the link. I had seen the latest Anon post quoted and wanted to check it out for myself, but I hadn't found it in any of the usual places.

I only say this because your post sounded like you were arguing with something Floyd said about Anon, and I wanted to clarify the context of his post, since he was helping me out.

Surely you're not criticizing any of us for wanting to evaluate the comments for ourselves? :)

Speaking for myself, I'm not sure what to make of Anon, but it's always interesting reading. As with many of the things that are posted on these blogs, I see them as data points that should be considered within the broader picture and weighed for their credibility and relevance.

It's not just you, but it sounds like a lot of people are reacting harshly to perfectly well-intended comments in recent days. It seems to me that most of us, while not always agreeing on specifics, are generally respectful and likely to assume good intent on the part of our fellow questioners.

That's one of the things I like best about Laura's place.

Peace.

DebinOH

9/22/2011 02:45:00 am

Allie RN - Yes, I heard the rumor about SP giving birth to Piper by c-section. I remember someone saying that she used it to get out of car-pooling. I have also read that she had a tubal which is what she used to get out of car-pooling too. Now I have no idea if these rumors were proven or not. I suspect not.

However, when I did read that I thought the same thing as you. They were just starting v-bacs after I had my last child. Since I had c-sections I remember that you really really have to be careful trying to give birth vaginally. I am sure it is still true.

With all the different things that have come out of all their mouths I don't know how anyone could keep track of everything they said. Perhaps that is what they were banking on since NONE of them can keep the stories straight.

Joe's book is interesting so far. Nothing surprises me yet. Although I am surprised that Sally Heath was not such a great mother either. The stories of Chuck & Todd don't surprise me. The whole family is odd (hmmmmmm like I would never have guessed that).

NSG

9/22/2011 02:45:46 am

@Susan, on more careful re-reading, I now realize you referred to a quote of Floyd's. I apparently must have missed an earlier post of his, and thought you were reading more into his reply to me.

I apologize for doing the very thing I dislike when others do it! Someone else had been a bit snippy to me earlier, and I overreacted.

DebinOH

9/22/2011 02:51:52 am

Viola, OMG, I feel the same way reading Joe's book (not done yet). I usually read very fast & would have been finished by now but I can only read bits at a time. Weird.

SusaninMD - I personally don't think that it is Joe who is anon because it really sounds like things a woman would say. Maybe I am wrong? I am not sold that this person is in the loop. I am completely on the fence.

jeff

9/22/2011 02:56:50 am

V-A,

Sounds like you had a great day, yesterday with your hubbie. Just hearing about your adventures there in San Diego gave me a deja vu of a visit my wife and I made there in spring of '99 or 2000.

I had traveled on business to San Diego a couple of times in the mid-90's for shows down at the Convention Center, and I just loved it.

So, later, on kind of a short-notice whim, I gathered up our freq flier miles and whisked my wife off for an impromptu jaunt over there for 4 or 5 days, and it was one of those just perfect times that great memories are made of. Other than calling back to check on our son, who was about 4 at the time, we had no schedule, no responsibility, no stress...

We stayed in a little hotel within walking distance to the gaslamp district--- the name escapes me now. But it had a neat courtyard with lots of flowers and plants--- my wife was ecstatic b/c she really had a green thumb. It was a small property with, I'm guessing, around 15 rooms total. Each of the rooms was furnished uniquely with different antiques. When she heard about that, she quickly convinced the manager to let her, er, us, look at the furnishings in a couple of the other rooms that were vacant. By chance, one of those we peeked into was one that I had stayed in once before on a visit. I had no clue, but she recognized by my description of it. Shows you how much I pay attention to some things. I was a little skeptical until we found my entry in the journal that was on the dresser. I had written something like "This place is so awesome with all of the beautiful antique stuff. I can't wait to come back and bring my wife." Little did I know, major brownie points for me two years later (pats self on back).

It was just an awesome time. I woke up early each morning and ran 5 miles or so, and then she would meet me out front and walk with me as I cooled down. The weather was perfect, and we walked everywhere. Miles and miles. Just holding hands, talking, laughing. Then we'd stop in somewhere to eat or get a drink and she'd have a glass of wine and I'd have a couple of beers and the rest of the bottle of wine.(Gee, this is beginning to sound like an episode of "the Happy Palins go to Applebees")

This whole Palin thing gets the best of me, also, too, sometimes when it seems that it will never change, so all I can do is just try to stay away from even reading about it, which I usually do on weekends. But soon I find myself missing the smart and funny commentary of the regular folks here like yourself. It is always a welcome reprieve to read the thoughts and observations from such an intelligent group of folks.

Thanks for making me smile by conjuring up some old, fond memories by sharing your fine day there in SD.

everspring

9/22/2011 03:02:44 am

Another BIG LIE by Levi? I don't have his book but have been switching back and forth between various blog sites. In Levi's book he said that he arrived minutes after the birth of Trig, went into the room and picked up Trig. On Joy Behar's show he said he arrived about 4 hours after the birth. Which is is - minutes or 4 hours?

jeff

9/22/2011 03:08:20 am

@Susan

I love your motto.

Actually I needed it yesterday with my 16 yr old son, but all I could muster was a sarcastic "Dammit!" while wincing and shaking my head.

I hope you don't mind if I borrow it in the future.

Tom link

9/22/2011 03:27:19 am

I've written in previous posts how Alaskans, in my experience here, don't care about SP and wish she would just go away. By way of illutration, I just went on the Anchorage Public Library system to see if they'd gotten Joe's book in yet. 'The Rogue...' is in transit (from purchase) and I was able to place a hold on it. I'm 4th on the waiting list. So in the entire ANC library system I'm just the 4th library goer interested enough to read the book. Sure, some people will buy the book (actually, I'm gonna swing by the Barnes & Noble here in a bit and I'll inquire as to its sales numbers) but only 4 people placing holds in a city of about 300K? Get my point? Now if I come back from Barnes and report that the store guy told me the book isn't moving well please do not respond to me that the store guy is a Palin minion who's lying like some did when I reported from The Skinny Raven about her fitness. I have a, is it high or low, boiling point---the one that isn't attractive is the one I have, boiling point, i.e.

Also, I'm still hoping that Ozmud can put together an appealing enough summary of the IA half-marathon to get some attention. If it can be proven somehow that she cheated, well, that is no small potatoes.

Susan

9/22/2011 03:28:14 am

NSG said "Surely you're not criticizing any of us for wanting to evaluate the comments for ourselves? :)"

No, not criticizing at all and actually you hit the nail on the head (even though you realized later you mistook my comment) I am sooo relieved when people *evaluate* the comments, instead of just falling over themselves.

DebinOH - on the fence is a good way to put it.

Jeff - lol. That's not my saying so use it all you want. I'm not sure who originally said it but it's a good one for young people to learn :)

On another note - I just saw Breitbart's site and the email he has published that is supposedly from McGinniss to Gryphen. I have NEVER been to that site before...eewww. It is well know that he "doctors" the evidence that he supposedly gets on people and on this item - there is no link, no original, and no explanation anywhere as to how they came to have this email. So for that alone, I am hugely skeptical!

BUT, there is a lot in that email that sure sounds "right," like exactly what Joe would say. And the history is correct, if you ask me. Should we discuss? What do you all think?

Susan in MD

jeff

9/22/2011 03:39:32 am

Susan,

I just saw it too. I won't go to any of that cokehead Breitbart's sites without taking a shower afterwards.

Notice how he refers to IM as "now-defunct". He's quite the journalist and fact-checker, isn't he? Compared to Sarah, he might be. Otherwise, he's one of the worst shills on the fringe of the lunatic right.

I saw yesterday where BB was trying to track Joe down. I assumed BB just wanted to add to his collection of photos of other men's sexual organs that he is so proud of.

BB is no better than a hatchet guy. The fact that he has kids makes me fearful for them, because he is a sick human being with absolutely no moral compass.

Other than that, I think he and Sarah will make a dandy couple, once Todd gets a clue.

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 03:42:21 am

@Mhurka, is the video or transcript online? In the Vanity Fair version of the story, Palin asks for the "baby" and pays more attention to Tripp instead of Trig:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2009/09/who-knew-sarah-palin-was

I tried listening to several clips of the Tyra interview but haven't found the one that includes this conversation.

@Susan, could you provide a recap of what's on Breitbart? I hate to reward him with page hits.

Ottoline

9/22/2011 03:54:11 am

Re the Breitbart: For those of you who don't want to click, you are not missing anything. Nothing there except a Jan 2011 email from McG to Jesse, asking about a list of recurrent rumors for which McG is seeking proof. None are new to us. Yawn. Someone elsewhere said the rumors listed ARE in McG's book but are called rumors. I don't have my book yet so can't check, but undoubtedly we will hear a more credible discussion of all this in the near future (prob at IM), as McG's PR train roars along.

lilly lily

9/22/2011 03:54:17 am

It sounds like Joe being careful

. Though why would Jesse send it on to Breitbart? unless it was and I hope it wasn't, the Mudflats crew who knew about the e-mail and leaked it in retaliation for the wrongs they feel have been done to them.

I sure don't see it proving that McGinniss's book is a hoax.

I think Joe is a tad pompass, but he is very intelligent and a fine writer, and he has said he has left the majority of stuff out, that was dubvious.

I've stopped at two libraries, and I belong to a mess of libraries. I am first at one (if they get McGinnis's) and 4th at another larger library who has the book, but only one copy. Maybe I'll drop by Barnes and Nobles and glance at Levi's tome.

I find myself puzzled by Levi. He doesn't seem at all sharp or even self aware, the Palins could well have him wrapped up like a spider wraps up a fly for a later meal. Ditto Tank and Rex.

But beggers can't be choosers. Not that many lawyers in Anchorage who would take him on? Considering his nemesis? Or will he be Palins nemesis. It isn't at all clear. But he seems to be messing with his believability.

Bristol is hopeless, a poor liar, but a big liar. Her mother is a master at fudging the truth, muddying the water. Ditto Todd.

9/22/2011 03:56:10 am

Susan - Joe's email is Exhibit A for proof that he was careful about the information he put in his book and that there was a comprehensive legal review. Breitbart is making it to be the opposite and his readers are displaying their complete lack of critical thinking.

Is Breitbart just throwing a bone to Palin's fans so they can discredit Joe and his account that tarnishes their idol? Is there any chance the corporate media would stoop so low as to pick up Breitbart's topsy-turvy interpretation of the email?

I bet Gryphen was shocked to learn that his blog is 'now-defunct'.

curiouser

9/22/2011 03:57:08 am

c is me.

Ottoline

9/22/2011 04:16:12 am

I was ready to jump on you, too, Floyd, when you said "anon238 is not Joe, trust me" (I'm paraphrasing). That's actually the reason I have not bought your book: because there's too much "trust me; I know" and not enough actual verifiable data points in your posts. You often state an opinion, which you call a fact, and then refer us to your book for the substantiation. I know these issues are complex, but very succinct statements of fact would almost surely have me buying your book for the more extensive treatment.

You have been a long-time and credible commenter, IMO, and I want to learn your point of view, but I'm skeptical.

Or perhaps I'm just taking out on you my frustration with the oft-stated "I know this to be true," or "trust me," or "I firmly believe that . . . ." I've said this myself. Easy to fall into it. But we should not.

We all have theories (intuitive and fact-supported to varying degrees), but what I think we all want is to know which are the documented iron-clad facts.

That's why I'm no longer interested in the "he said, she said" of the SP books, the Levi quotes, or quotes by any of these sad suspects in this sordid tale. Just explain how the March 14 photo (and similar photos) can co-exist with the 5-weeks-later delivery of a 6+ pound baby.

Or admit that SP hoaxed us. Yes or No. Black or white. Pregnant or not.

everspring

9/22/2011 04:18:50 am

Susan
I don't think there's any need to discuss an email that Breitbart posted. Assuming Joe did send it to Gryphen, no big deal. Joe is basically stating the same stuff we all are and that is that we don't have 100% proof of this crap. That's why we continue to blog about it so we can try to get a more complete story by trying to eke out the facts.

Susan

9/22/2011 04:32:19 am

Yeah. It's dated Jan 2011. Joe states to Jesse that legal is reviewing his manuscript and that without "sources" and documentation for all the lurid stories it's all gossip. Says even the ADN and APD deny S. Tripp's story and that she's been discredited by them. That the Nat'l Enquirer cites AlaskaWTF who in turns cites them. That NE won't take her story, that she's desperate for money and that she may be mentally unwell. The email really trashes S. Tripp.

Joe then goes on to point out that even Jesse, for two years, has never produced a credible source or substantiated any claims and neither have the other blogs. Therefore, Joe can cite nothing other than his own reporting on a whole list of things he itemizes that no one has ever provided factual evidence for.
Then mentions B's DWTS preg rumor and how Jesse only had pics to go by. No evidence, again. Says unless G can put him in touch with sources and facts - not malicious speculation or third-hand rumors by people who hold a grudge. Says otherwise he'll look like AlaskaWTF (does BB think this is Gryph;s blog?)between hard covers.

That about sums it up.

Before the email BB states Gryphs blog is defunct and AlaskaWTF was until recently. Does BB make the mistake in this "fake" email of having Joe call G's blog AlaskaWTF, which Joe WOULD NOT have done, because Joe KNOWS that G's blog is IM?

Also, would Joe have called the information on the blogs "malicious speculation or third-hand rumors by people who hold a grudge." I don't know. He says in the email that G always has info that he "knows but can't post" that "something is always around the corner" but that proof for many things has NEVER shown up: trig preg, DWTS preg, Todd prost, Sarah affair, Track drug/vandal, Willow vandal, Bristol drugs etc. No proof.

At the same time, this email and its content is written exactly the way Palin and her Team would write it to discredit Joe and the information in the book. Hahahaha - the first thing it does is everything to discredit Shailey Tripp and Todd's prostitution adventures!

Susan in MD

Mhurka

9/22/2011 04:46:38 am

Rubbernecking-It was a re-telling of that story that I recall reading a very long time ago in a lengthy comment(s) but I don't remember which blog. So the matter may have been discussed at that time and possibly put to rest? But not sure as with everything in this saga.

lilly lily

9/22/2011 04:47:37 am

Time to take a Palin Break. Going to saunter over to the wine store and see what they have in stock, what was that Crabby bloody Mary Mix Shannyn Moore shared with McGinniss?

Will have to check her ode to Joe at Mudflats.

This story line gets stranger and stranger.

Why would Sarah Palin have Levi Johnston who she claims she met twice? sitting on the couch in her hospital room holding her new born son with his dirty grubby, just back from a hunting trip, hands. Plus this is April and he has sun streaked hair?

lilly lilly

9/22/2011 05:03:17 am

Oxford Falls Wake Up Crabby Bloody Mary Mix.

AKM suggests cold cucumber slices for these "I'm so sick and tired of Palin" moments. She blogged about the solicitation letter from Tim Crawford for funds to induce Sarah Palin to Run, or whatever that crazy letter to her crazy bots is meant to say.

Invaluable advice, I'm off to get a cucumber and Wake Up Crabby Bloody
Mary mix. Have the V8.

lilly lily

9/22/2011 05:13:06 am

OMG. Levi Johnston says Sarah Palin had a Cougar Crush on him. (not surprised?)

OK magazine.

Sunshine1970

9/22/2011 05:17:54 am

@Susan

I've heard from more than one (anonymous!) person that AlaskaWTF and Gryphen are one and the same. Perhaps he told Joe about the connection which is why McGinniss brings it up in his email to Gryphen.

*Shrugs*

KMR

9/22/2011 05:19:57 am

This thread is getting way too long to go through. I was wondering if anyone caught Me again's latest?

I'll copy in paste for you all but you can find it on the Thank You post at IM.

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/09/from-my-heart-to-yours-thank-you.html

Anonymous @ 2:50AM

Hi there. It's "me again", as I see I've been dubbed.

I just wanted to answer your question--no, I have not contacted Gryphen yet. I have an early lunch meeting with an attorney today because I just want to make sure I can't get in trouble for anything I'm planning to share with Gryphen should he choose to publish it. I am reasonably sure based upon my own research that I'm in the clear on MOST of it. But since we all know how vindictive Sarah can be, I just want to make SURE I stay within the bounds of absolute legal propriety.

Sarah is on the brink these days, if her spastic bam-bam-bam emails are an indication. She's barking orders and obviously has learned NOTHING...she's trying to get people to write fake bad reviews of Joe's book.

She thinks it's actually a victory that Brad's article was "only" published in an online magazine. She was worried it would be printed in a "real magazine". I think she is trying to make her little circle believe she's not too affected by it...but she is running scared. I know she has made more inquiries about getting a fake birth certificate and she has talked to Parnell about getting in front of the story--releasing the truth on her own terms and having her base perceive her as a martyr.

BUT...Parnell rightly says "it's those damn speeches" and Going Rogue--once you accept millions of dollars for telling a story that's nothing but fantastical lies...martyrdom is pretty much out of the picture.

Sarah is still under pressure to produce Trig for a photo op. Even her staunchest supporters are asking why Trig hasn't been seen in SO long...when he USED to be paraded about like he was sponsored by Macy's. I'm interested to see how she will respond to the mounting pressure. I wouldn't be surprised if she fakes or stages a photo op with a different child. Not just because Trig seems to loathe her and won't allow her to hold or hug him, but because he is getting very chubby (NOT the word Sarah used about her "gift from God") and she thinks people will say she must not feed him healthy food or say she's a bad mother. Ship, meet sailed.

I just wanted to provide that little update. Off to get ready for my meeting with legal eagle.

Sunshine1970

9/22/2011 05:20:38 am

@lilly lily

lol Yeah. Cougar Crush. Icky.

And I can completely believe it too. Not only that Palin may have had one, but also that Levi may not have known.

The Vanity Fair article comes to mind where Sarah asked Levi to come in to her bedroom, and she pulled a gun/rifle/whatever from underneath the bed and wanted him to teach her how to use it. I heard the bad '70's bow-chicka-wow-wa music playing in the background as I read that part.

lilly lily

9/22/2011 05:28:44 am

We are back to "Mrs Robinson are you trying to seduce me?"

You should see the comments in the article I looked at.

They think he is lower than low etc.

Damn this kid is dense.

Of course she was. And then she would have screamed rape.

nancydrewed link

9/22/2011 05:38:36 am

@Ottoline. Re Floyd's "trust me" statements about the authorship of Anon' comments at IM: I think he simply means that it would make little sense for Floyd and his book to be referenced by name, were McGinniss writing these anonymous comments. Joe has his own book to sell -- he wouldn't be driving potential buyers to check out "The Palin Matrix."

If I were a betting woman, I'd put my money on Rebecca Mansour as the author. She doesn't seem like someone who would remain under that bus for long, and she's got an awful lot of insider contacts to exploit. Anon seems a reasonably skilled writer and I recall that Mansour wanted to be a scriptwriter at one time. Plus, she's been "jilted."

Just got my book -- my fond hope is that McGinniss blows our media's cover, from top to bottom. WaPo op-ed's, NYT puff pieces, facebook reportage, twitter updates, the whole fantastical scandal. That's the story I want shouted, "This is 'Spinal Tap'"-style, going all the way "to eleven". Bottoms up. ;-)

Allie RN

9/22/2011 05:46:04 am

Oh my goodness, I have several responses, so please bear with me. I am afraid you might be seeing my name a bunch. :)

First, Everspring, what Levi said about the four hours....he arrived 4 hours b4 Tripp was born.

rubbernecking, thanks for that link; I am going to check it out and Deb thanks for your input. If someone wants a tubal, it's often done at the time of a C/S you might know. But who would expect someone with a newborn to be carpooling?

I am sorry I didn't source the Me Again comments. I copied them from the Thank You thread and frankly, they looked like they were copied into that thread as they often are. It was the only time that I didn't go to the broomfield thread myself and read them, but I must admit that I thought that was the origin and had a little attack of cyberlaziness.

As to his or her veracity, I guess I am wearing my Pollyanna cloak. There is so much word salad crap out there related to the Quitter that we as a group have become masters of parsing the lingo. I am blessed with a pretty darn good memory (okay, it isn't as good as it used to be if you must know the truth :), so I can usually pick up a discrepancy in a New York minute. I realize that not everyone remembers every little nuance. So when Anon238 breezily refers to some event that we have practically analyzed onto its death bed and he or she gets the lingo off a smidgeon, I am amazed at the eruption of Mount Vesuvius that ensues sometimes.

To me, Anon's observations have a genuine ring of truth. They don't sound like some troll reminding us about the happy days are here again at Applebees. And I don't think they sound like someone trying to ridicule our pursuits; why bring up comments about an attorney if that was the intent? The timing has been bad - traveling right when there is lots of Palin activity going on. So I am still keeping an open mind.

Do you realize that we need just one thing from Anon (or anyone else?) Just one item, a photo, a piece of paper, a bill, a document that ties Trig to a date prior to April 18, 2008. Then the game is up.

lilly lily

9/22/2011 05:55:07 am

I think the sheer tackiness of the Palins Sarah and Todd, is going to blow up in their faces.

Gawker had a bit about Todd peering through a peephole at a female and commenting on her nude breasts and the shape of her derriere in various meetings. She wasn't interested. Alaska WTF is writing about it. Being a peeping Tom is more than flirtation.

Didn't Laura have a thread on Sarah and her flirtatious behavior with Levi? She is so presidential.

Suddenly these steamy bits are coming out. Someone doesn't like the Palins.

lilly lily

9/22/2011 06:17:36 am

Evidently the flirting and peeping story comes from Joe McGinniss and his book.

Considering how Sarh Palin trashed him on moving next door to peep at Piper, that is really ironic.

Of course in her reality show she wants Todd to drill a peephole so she can spy on McGinniss.

Perhaps she was aware of the peephole on the sweat lodge in Dillingham.

She sees everyone as being similar to her own family and their shenanigans.

Susan

9/22/2011 06:18:03 am

Oh my...didn't know about the connection to Gryphen and AlaskaWTF. lol Dirk Digger...eh? If true, then he created a fictional character to release some rather graphic info, and in a really raw and in ur face kinda way. hmmm...

Whoever made the comment about Mansour being the writer of the Anon posts, made a lightbulb go off in my head. Mansour had a confidante once she tweeted to, Toki de la something, who leaked those tweets and got Becka in a lot of trouble. No one knows for sure if Becka's gone or not, right?
Well, Toki has a website and was posting up till Palin's Newsweek cover came out. Toki had a not flattering post about that (Tits!) up for a couple of weeks but never posted any comments. That blog was silent for weeks. Then the Newsweek post disappeared and the blog is still silent. It's weird. Toki really had it out for Bristol and Sarah, then all of a sudden, blam, nothing. Maybe RSM got him.

Now I'm posting gibberish...haha. Anyway, yeah, it's weird. Why would an Anon poster need legal advice? Unless they are about to go public with something.

So Anon238, we gonna be cashin that check real soon now, hear?

Susan in MD

Laura Novak link

9/22/2011 06:24:06 am

An excellent read over at PoliticalGates today:

http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/09/sarah-palin-dick-cheney-and-crony.html

Well worth taking a dive into.

And yes, anytime anyone sees an Anon comment on IM, PLEASE bring it over here for ease of use. Many of us might miss it if not. Thank you all!

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 06:28:17 am

Anyone else thinking Anon238 will regretfully announce that the legal eagle won't let him/her prove anything?

lilly lily

9/22/2011 06:31:27 am

Malia Litman had a thread on the Peeping Todd story in The Rogue...

A native woman commented on the terrible abuse of natives in Alaska.

I really can't see how the Palins are going to counter all these items on their tawdry behavior. They are well beyond any norms that people will accept in their leaders. Look at Spitzer and Weiner. Tacky sexual behavior and hi jinks and out they went.

The Palin egg is broken, and all the kings horses and all the kings men, won't be able to put her into the White House.

sunnyskies

9/22/2011 06:39:18 am

"She [Bristol} was the one who was supposed to have that kid [Trig] - fr om Levi's interview.

I can't get past that sentence. Why did Bristol think that she. Bristol, was the one who was supposed to have that kid....?

What 17 year old would think that she and not her mother should be having a baby? I could see maybe some embarrassment on the part of a teen whose mother got pregnant in her 40s, but anger? Bristol was so "angry" with her mother that she decided immediately to have a baby herself?

What would really motivate a 17 year old to want to have a baby, such a life-changing decision, especially out of anger? Especially without her parent's approval or even knowledge - while she was still dependent upon them?

Why would Bristol say that it should have been she who was having a baby and not her mother?

Any child phychologist out there offer an explanation?

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 06:40:57 am

Did anyone listen to Levi's interview with E!News? Start at the 2:41:

They are discussing Bristol's desire to have a baby.

Interviewer: Why did she want to have a baby?
Levi: She just loves kids. You know. She had had Trig. She has Piper. That's just how she is. {Weird sigh}

Did Levi screw up??! How does the comment about Trig and Piper make any sense??

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 06:41:48 am

Sorry, so dumbstruck I forgot the link.

http://www.eonline.com/news/levi_johnston_on_sarah_palin_she_had/265355

everspring

9/22/2011 06:43:16 am

Allie RN

I wasn't referring to Tripp' birth in my post above. I'm pretty sure when Levi was on Joy Behar's show he was talking about Sarah giving birth to Trig when he said he arrived 4 hours after that birth. That statement contradicts what he wrote in this book that he arrived "minutes" after Trig's birth.

Palintologist

9/22/2011 06:54:34 am

It has occurred to me that the quote in Levi's book "She [Bristol} was the one who was supposed to have that kid [Trig]" may have nothing to do with childbirth on either Bristol's or Sarah's part but who was going to claim to be the mother and play a central role in perpetrating the hoax.

Ottoline

9/22/2011 06:54:59 am

I remain anon238-nostic also. Because there are two things we seek from anon238.

One is a confirmation of legitimateness. If Gryphen says anon238 is legit, I would buy that. That's why we were so wild to speculate on his/her identity. We didn't really want to out that person, but we badly wanted to know if we were being played or if we should give it our trust. Jury is still out for me.

The second thing we want is something we didn't know. Something important. Not a tiny detail like the exact med that SP might be abusing, or just using. Something we didn't know, and something that matters.

What's the point of having an informant if you learn only what you already knew? Or you learn something new but it's either trivial or you can't trust that it's true?

So far, anon238 has not met these criteria. Not either one. If ONE criterion had been satisfied, we would be all ears. Well, of course we still are, in an open-minded way that still wants to verify everything.

Susan

9/22/2011 07:02:43 am

@rubbernecking "Anyone else thinking Anon238 will regretfully announce that the legal eagle won't let him/her prove anything? "

Well, she supposedly has access to pics of Trig showing him as a newborn in Valentine's day logo clothes and as a preemie in a hospital. I would think that releasing either one of those, would start an immediate demand for answers to the babygate questions from the MSM, given what Joe has already put out there. I read at comment at IM from someone connected to reporters at some paper that indicated that the babygate question IS in fact, being looked at again. I hope so.

Then again, if there is a book from "Fred" forthcoming, that Joe has paved the way for, anything from Anon238 may not even be needed. I would think this well-known and reputable writer "Fred" would be more credible anyway.

We'll see, I guess.

Susan in MD

everspring

9/22/2011 07:11:11 am

Could Anon238 and Fred be one in the same?

Laura Novak link

9/22/2011 07:19:28 am

Interesting point, Palintologist. It makes no sense that a 17 YO girl would think of herself as having the baby in the family. Unless she has unresolved jealousy issues involving her father.

Might I just ask again: is there ANYthing simple about this family. I mean, ANYthing at all?

Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 07:20:15 am

Anyone willing to check out the E!News video? The suspense is killing me.

E!News @2:41
http://www.eonline.com/news/levi_johnston_on_sarah_palin_she_had/265355

These are my possible explanations for Levi's comment about Bristol "She had had Trig":

1. Bristol was Trig's caregiver BEFORE she conceived Tripp. So either Trig was born early than 4/18 OR Tripp was conceived later than the official story.

2. Bristol is the birth mother of Trig.

3. Bristol is not the birth mother but she cared for Trig before his "official" 4/18 birth. For example, maybe Molly had the baby in Feb but Sarah wanted to "schedule" the announced birth after the end of the Legislative session.

Thoughts? Did I hear him correctly??

Viola-Alex

9/22/2011 07:35:31 am

@Rubbernecking - Levi's remark could be as simple as

"She had had Trig [to care for since no one else did]. She has Piper [to be the surrogate mom for since Sarah is never around]. That's just how she is [there's nothing else in her life but taking care of children]." {Weird sigh}

These are not people whose words warrant analysis, imo. They do not seem able to think, then speak. What they do say is careless, messy, and approximate.

Tom link

9/22/2011 07:38:14 am

I went to the Barnes & Noble in ANC at around 9:30 this AM. Walk in the door and Joe's book is in the center of the display. Grabbed a copy and sat down on a comfortable chair across from an out of luck character talking to his lawyer. Read Chapters 19+20. Didn't buy it. I'll wait for my library hold. Joe did an excellent job. A A newbie reading Joe's Trig account would have to have a cartoon bugeye reaction. He lays it out beautifully while repeating his skepticism of its validity, really only because it's so bizarre. Joe absolutely writes it as plausible.

My favorite part (of the little I've read) is still the beginning where he lists the names of the perhaps 70 churches in Wasilla, a town of 7000. Anyone with an ounce of education or sense would stay far away from that joint. I love how in the paragraph after the church listings, Joe juxtaposes the number of chiropractors in Wasilla, 35, or one for every 200 people. I think you get the inference-- one church for every 100, one chiropractor for every 200. It's a wonder there's no 'miracle elixir' store about.

I spoke to the young lady beyond the checkout counter. She told me 'The Rogue...' is selling. Not hotcakes though. Two people bought it while I was there, $22.50 after the 20% discount (everything's discounted it seems).

It wouldn't surprise that AKWTF is Griffin. He was all bubbly when you proclaimed its return. Let's him be a little wilder.

As for Anon238, I have no complaints. She's much more dependable than Mudflats/AKM. I guess the Bailey detritus has been exhausted, plus I little like the double they shot at JOe last week. There's more to that than we know.

curiouser

9/22/2011 07:39:26 am

@rubbernecking - Watching the eonline interview...seeing Levi's body language (blinking eyes, deep sigh) while the host is asking the next question AFTER Levi says 'that's just how she is', is heartbreaking. I don't know if Levi goofed, what he meant, what he was thinking; but he was clearly uncomfortable.

Karen

9/22/2011 07:40:37 am

Well he definitely said it, but I think he was referring to having siblings and wanting her own baby.

The question was, "You say she really wanted kids." And he responds, "She loves kids. She had, she had Trig. She has Piper, and that's just how it is. I've always wanted a little girl."

Tom link

9/22/2011 07:45:59 am

How did 'plus I didn't like the double barrel they shot at Joe last week' turn into that?

Laura Novak link

9/22/2011 07:48:20 am

I can see it any way, all ways.

What strikes me again and again - and I suspect I'm in the minority here - is how much Trig looks like Levi.

Does anyone recall the series of pix I put up that a commenter made for me, of Trig in various positions in Sarah's arms in Arizona, and Levi?

It's his son and I'm sticking to that as my truth. I don't care what he says. The huge sigh, the being in the hospital room while a grown woman is sleeping?

I don't believe any of this.

And yes, an IV would stay in for venous access until discharge. No reason to scramble for a vein if something went suddenly wrong.

Trig looks like Levi. Period. (oh, and Sarah also too).

Ottoline

9/22/2011 07:50:18 am

I took it that Levi is saying B had Trig and Piper TO TAKE CARE OF, but along with that, she wanted her own child. But let's say Levi did not mean that, that he slipped. So what? It gives us nothing, really, because there are so many contradictory comments, all criss-cross.

Karen

9/22/2011 07:52:44 am

Trig looks like Levi to me, also. Especially the photo released just before the one of the two boys (Tripp and Trig) that came out. But if we get off on speculating about who has whose nose, Tom is gonna tell us we're cackling like a bunch of hens at a baby shower again :)

The "(oh, and Sarah also too)" threw me for a huge loop, though! Do tell more...

Tom link

9/22/2011 08:02:03 am

@Karen-- Oy.

Beezy

9/22/2011 08:15:39 am

You all do remember how often Piper traveled with either Sarah or Todd right?

My take is, Bristol literally saw teen after teen having a baby and felt driven. I felt similar urges and I only knew 2 people in high school who had babies and both were adopted out.

Valdezzzie

9/22/2011 08:29:55 am

I am not shocked at all that emails between bloggers and people are leaked or passed around. I was on a forward list for a couple emails between Jesse and Dunn. Jesses such a troublemaker btw. Typically, the bloggers will pass around things amongst themselves, then certain people will send an email to another person who maybe indirectly involved and so on. Think Telephone.

This is why you should never write anything in print or electrnically that you don't want broadcast to the world.

Mhurka

9/22/2011 08:31:28 am

I think the stress might be getting to Levi. Everyone has their limit. Either it was some kind of Freudian slip or the subconscience is starting to rebel. Just my theory.

eclecticsandra

9/22/2011 08:32:40 am

I can imagine a 16-17 year old girl/woman wanting a baby and being angry that her mother was pregnant.

Many teenaged girls, especially in dysfunctional families, want a baby because that symbolizes unconditional love. A girl with no career plans or thoughts of higher education would settle for what she knows best, taking care of children.

There is a lot of friction between girls and mothers during this time. The girl is becoming aware of sexual attractiveness and does not want her mother competing with her. Can you imagine trying to compete with Sarah? I've seen families where the mother is pregnant and has teenagers. They want their mother to stay in her generation, not be part of theirs. Even boys can be hostile to a mother's pregnancy.

I certainly would not expect Levi to quite understand why, but he would have been willing to accommodate Bristol since he didn't seem to have a lot of ambition for his own future.

LakeLucilleLoon

9/22/2011 10:15:54 am

Geez, so many people on here reporting having "maternal urges" in their teens. That to me is just really weird. I had three friends get knockers in high school; they didn't have any "maternal urges" just didn't have parents that cared enough to put them on the pill. We helped them pay for correcting their mistakes and they never thought again about it. All three went off to school and found careers and had other children.

I never knew a single person that was not focused on boys, extra-curriculars, boys, cheerleading, debate, grades, boys, SAT's, college applications, sports and boys, when I was between 9th and 12th grade. That's the teenaged life; not pining for babies at 17.

The girls that had babies in our school were those whose couldn't afford an abortion, plain and simple. They didn't get to go to college and they are still stuck in our old hometown with grandkids now, and most are not very happy and look very old and worn out. Teen parenthood will do that to you.

DebinOH

9/22/2011 11:05:33 am

Laura, I do think that Trig looks a lot like Levi but Levi could probably pass as one of Palin's own kids. I swear to god that the Menards, Palins and Johnstons all resemble each other in some shape or form.

The whole story is just beyond weird. None of it makes any sense. He drove Bristol to the hospital, he showed up four hours later, SP had only met him twice, blah, blah, blah. I have to say that I think he was a regular fixture at their house because there is no way in hell I would have every let someone I didn't know anywhere near my baby. Let's not even talk about him being on the couch next to her while she was sleeping. Weird, weird, weird!!

From everything I have read about teens that want babies it seems that they are from homes that aren't too great and just want love. They don't think about all the work although you would think Bristol would pretty much know what it was like with Piper being so much younger.

There is nothing about this family that is normal. Nothing.

lazrgrl

9/22/2011 11:12:53 am

V-A: "These are not people whose words warrant analysis, imo. They do not seem able to think, then speak. What they do say is careless, messy, and approximate."

That's for sure!

Allie RN

9/22/2011 11:31:43 am

Laura, agree completely on Trig looking like Levi. I am not very good at seeing facial similarities, but those photos you posted blew me away.

For some reason we don't know yet, Levi is on board with the Trig parentage coverup.

@Everspring, forgive me, I was cooking dinner during the interview and probably missed the exchange. However, I had just finished his book and knew what he said in it, which is what I said above.

BTW, Levi alludes to a weakness of his that he performs terribly in front of people. He has been so nervous in his appearances that he is almost non-functional. I don't think he has made a cogent point yet in any of the ones I've seen. So I am really relying on what he wrote to try to navigate his thoughts and I have gotten to the point to where I am just brushing off his statements in his appearances.

@Tom, thanks for another excellent field report. I did one once on a gun show for my fellow blog-buddies.

-----

I am contemplating the revision of my personality disorder theory about the Quitter now that I have read in Joe's book about Sally's ABANDONMENT of her family after she found Jesus. Physical abandonment by a parent is associated with borderline personality disorder, but in Sarah's case it was emotional abandonment and her mother's failure to provide the basics of maternal care to her family. This could have had a profound effect on her developing personality. I need to do some more thinking on this since I leaned more toward NPD than BPD.

-----------
V-A and Jeff

I lived in San Diego back in the nineties (I worked at Sharp Mary Birch Hospital for Women) and I thoroughly loved both of your renditions. Jeff, what sweet memories of your wife. Chalking up those brownie points was priceless!

Rationalist

9/22/2011 11:32:28 am

Someone just left what I think is a very possible scenario at IM.

"That is the look of a young man being forced to lie.

I still think that Trig is his and Bristol's baby. That he was delivered extremely prematurely, and in very bad shape, which entailed many days in an NICU, and a huge bill. I think that once Trig was prematurely born, Sarah announced her 'pregnancy,' and told Bristol she was taking the baby as her own, because there was no way Bristol and Levi would be able to afford this child. Backed into a corner, and unable to financially provide, both Bristol and Levi had no choice but to go along with Sarah's deception. But Bristol was furious, and decided to get pregnant again -- with a child she could keep.

I think there has been no formal adoption, and that Sarah is blackmailing Levi, because he knows if he speaks up he will be financially responsible for Trig, and he knows he can't provide. For Trig's own good, to keep him in the care that he needs, Levi has to keep his mouth shut. The problem is, he's not a good liar.

It's amazing, simply amazing, that this deception has gone on as long as it has. It truly has to end soon. If Sarah were smart (she isn't) she'd get ahead of this one."

NSG

9/22/2011 11:46:12 am

@Allie RN, I don't know if you saw a recent post of mine on the NPD/BPD topic, but I'm with you after reading Joe's book (having also been on the NPD side, but now seeing more BPD).

In addition to what you've pointed out about Sally emotionally abandoning her kids, I was also struck with Joe's sources' descriptions of Sarah's need to see people as either good or evil. This is classic BPD "splitting," or black & white thinking. From my own experience with a BPD parent and the subsequent research, these were haunting first-hand reports.

Also, too, are the descriptions of her unpredictable moods.

I look forward to hearing more of your reactions to this.

Tom link

9/22/2011 12:00:29 pm

I read the comments of posters who've read the book and then wonder why media types like Piers Morgan even get paid. I've read only two chapters, 19 and 20, and could do a much better job than the despicable Morgan, Savannah Guthrie, the View girls and others. Nobpdy gets to the meat and it's right there in front of them and I'm not just talking about Trig. There's so much more.

Andrew Sullivan and Joe both hit the nail on it head. Media blows.

Is Joe doing Morning Joe? Anybody hear?

Allie RN

9/22/2011 12:18:11 pm

NSG, it might be that my take home message from your comment was the splitting. Even though I can't say I remember the comment (sorry) I remember that because I said, "Yes!" In my own mind, my recollection was 'going from one extreme to another suddenly.' I had not thought about it from the context of good vs. evil, which is of course an extreme. Haven't gotten to that part of the book yet. But the splitting is also associated with disproportional anger and anger at something normally a person wouldn't get so angry about. I picked up on Joe using the disproportional word to describe her reaction to his moving in next door. Big clue. Lately, there has been increasing evidence of Sarah's anger and some of those photos that Gryph posts have some mighty angry poses. NPD is usually about being admired and dismissive of someone who doesn't admire, rather than angry at someone who doesn't admire. Technical difference, but relative here. The description of Sarah's moods by Anon238 are the strongest clues for me that she knows something about the inside scoop.

Just sayin'.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/22/2011 12:32:54 pm

@Rationalist - I'm jumping on your bandwagon. I can just see two teen parents looking at a very fragile premie in an incubator, being scared to death, and agreeing to anything Sarah demanded. If I was Bristol, later, I'd be pissed off as hell about my mom stealing my child.

Allie RN

9/22/2011 12:33:38 pm

Right on, Tom. The media interviews have been a disgrace and I think they reflect exactly how the media responded to concerns about Sarah Palin's truthfulness in their first go-round -- the '08 campaign. It is reacting the same way, like someone high up is telling them not to rock the boat.

That's okay. The facts are on our side. In this country, it's been proved over and over again that being right isn't always enough, but it is ALWAYS better than being wrong. And we aren't wrong.

Keep rocking.

curiouser

9/22/2011 01:01:15 pm

I wonder if Brad saw that Larry Flynt is offering $1 million for proof of Perry's dalliance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/larry-flynt-rick-perry_n_976781.html

Tom link

9/22/2011 01:11:16 pm

@Allie and NSG

I read some of the WIKI report on BPD and 'victimization' is also mentioned as an trait.

As I mentioned above, I have eight sisters, also two brothers, and I am the youngest. My mother was 45 at my birth, Dad 48. My eldest sister was pregnant with the first grandchild while Mom was carrying me. I was an uncle when I was 7 weeks old. I brought this up because someone above mentione mother and daughter being pregnant simultaneously.

I don't recall ever asking my MOm what it was like, but I have asked my sister more than once over the years. She always responded like 'Oh I don't know' but then she was raised at a time when speaking of such a thing wasn't done (not to mention that the next opiniion she has will be her first--another result when she was raised).

It always occurred to me that it would be different to say the least. Envy, less spotlight especially for the first grandchild in such a large family, and so on.

The nephew and I got along fine. He lollowed me everywhere, even went to the same college. But it was a bit competitive (I was better at everything, hahaha but true, so there was that).

So a little pertinent personal history brings me to my favorite response, "I don't know" how the envy dynamic might work in this regard but I'm sure it surfaces even if it's not articulated as in my case. Things were different, weren't they.

FrostyAK

9/22/2011 02:04:36 pm

On Levi - has anyone considered that lawyer Butler and bouncer Tank are on the $P payroll, and their advice to Levi is all orchestrated to derail any of the inconvenient facts about the Wicked Witch of Wasilla? It would make sense, IF Tripp actually is Levi's son, since the 'lawyer' has done NOTHING to get shared custody of the boy.

IMO, Levi isn't smart enough to remember all the lies he has been fed.

FrostyAK

9/22/2011 02:27:57 pm

"Here's one thing in his book that was the clincher:

"I hadn't seen Trig - my special little boy - for so long and would love to have been included. I had to settle for the magazine version. The Palins all looked great.""

http://fruitorigami.blogspot.com/2011/09/levi.html

Palintologist

9/22/2011 02:30:29 pm

@FrostyAK

Very well stated.

search4more

9/22/2011 02:53:06 pm

I found the Eonline interview with Levi to be significant.

She can't have "had Trig", meaning cared for him, because he was only recently born. "Had" meaning "caring for" or "looking after" suggests that the caring / babysitting had happened for a long time. Why use the past tense when the caring role is brand new, and the baby is brand new?

Trig was born April 18th. Lets say she was the primary carer of him for 2 weeks so that we can say she "had Trig". What does that do to the dates? Lets say that takes us to May 2nd and on May 2nd she gets pregnant. What's that plus 9 months? I'm right in thinking the dates don't make sense then aren't I. Giving birth late December would have been about at the 8 months point then right? The less time she had Trig for, the more the dates work, but the more the statement she "had Trig" makes less sense.

Is that right or am I not seeing something?

curiouser

9/22/2011 03:12:42 pm

Looking at the transcript from the Behar interview, Levi doesn't clearly say that Sarah definitely, unquestionably birthed Trig. Perhaps, some of us overreacted or, perhaps, I'm missing something now. I think the biggest problem was the way Joy confronted Joe--not with clips of what Levi actually said, but by paraphrasing.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/21/joy.01.html

This is cut and paste from the website, including their transcription errors. I added CAPS in the dialogue for emphasis.

BEHAR: Did you sigh her pregnant when she have, when she was pregnant with Trig?

JOHNSTON: I'VE SEEN HER JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. SHE COVERED IT UP REAL WELL, you know. But like I said, willow found the stick, showed Bristol and that`s how I found out. You know everybody is -

BEHAR: Willow found what?

JOHNSTON: The pregnancy stick.

BEHAR: Willow found the stick. Really?

JOHNSTON: THAT'S THE STORY and then -

BEHAR: And it was Sarah`s not Bristol`s?

JOHNSTON: Bristol wasn`t pregnant AT THAT TIME. And the only thing I could say, I actually showed up at the hospital probably four or five hours AFTER she APPARENTLY had Trig. When she was in there she had you the outfit on. She was lying in the bed. She had the IV in her arm. On a blackberry, Trig was in there, Todd and all the kids.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/22/2011 03:15:44 pm

Sharon_Too_Also

9/22/2011 03:17:42 pm

Let the show begin!

I'm sure a few of you are wondering how my meeting went. Despite people like "rubbernecking" who theorized on Laura Novak's blog that I was going to "regretfully" announce that legal constraints precluded me from sharing anything else...(Rubbernecker, here's me giving you Bristol's fave hand gesture) I am happy to say that about 90% of things I felt needed to be disclosed to the public get the legal all clear.

Apparently when Sarah sent BlackBerry messages to 5-7 recipients at a time with NO privacy disclosure at the bottom...she basically forfeited her "expectation of privacy". Who knew?! The delicious irony here...if Sarah had just used her government email like she was supposed to, there would have been a privacy disclosure! So by trying to keep people from seeing her emails...she basically is throwing away her right to actually HAVE THEM kept from public view.

The main sticking point as far as legality went was photographs. The one I was most interested in was the one of Trig (or "original Tripp" or whatever the hell it was) in the valentine baby shirt, being propped up in a plastic hospital type baby crib.

The attorney said if Sarah had sent out this photo to multiple recipients with no privacy disclosure, it'd be one thing. But the photo in question is a cell phone photoograph OF a framed photograph, under glass, on a white shelf. It's a little blurry, you can't see the baby's ears, and even though I am 100% sure it's the same distinctively faced baby we saw in the Palin kitchen, all it would take is Sarah saying "That's not even Trig! That's my sister's baby and that photo is ten years old!" or some other twaddlebunk line...OR someone pointing out that a baby could wear a valentine shirt in April or a Santa shirt in July...and it would make the considerable risk of "stealing" a photo worthless.

The attorney advised Sarah could find it legally actionable since the photo OF the photo was taken inside her home--where she DID have an expectation of privacy.

I talked with my source after the meeting with the attorney and we agreed insofar as that photo is concerned, we are going to let Fred's book come out before considering such a risky and possibly fruitless move. We decided the attorney was correct in stating "what does it prove except a baby who resembles the newborn Trig Palin was in a hospital and wore a holiday themed shirt...at SOME point in time.

6:54 PM

Sharon_Too_Also

9/22/2011 03:18:51 pm

Part 2 Wooooo hooooo

Anonymous said...
But do not despair, comrades in arms of our war on injustice and big fat Sarah-concocted lies. I have some emails, some firsthand statements which provide verifiable dates, times, and so on. Nothing that will put her in the well deserved canvas panties and orange jumpsuit...but definitely some things she would rather keep under wraps.

Because some emails and details may make more sense with certain backstory applied, I am going to (from this point forward) be sending my posts directly to Gryphen and allowing him to choose what is most pertinent. I'm going to go ahead and tell you now to please not post over and over ask Gryphen if I have told him this or that...I promise to be as quick and thorough as possible.

Before I sign off I just want to note a couple of things. I know some people have long theorized there is a "paid" troll here. You are absolutely correct. It is a very close friend of Bristol's and they both post here and at other Palin blogs. (but here more than anywhere else) The friend of Bristol's is paid monthly and is lazy as hell lately. A member of Sarah's team set this friend of Bristol's up with an out of state smart phone and laptop. She posts under multiple names and doesn't care that the posts are obviously from the same person--it's just a job to her.

Today Sarah said they should "send Barbara Walters flowers". Whatever that means.

Sarah is getting a little yappy about bits and pieces of the real story about Trig coming out in the comments on various blogs. She and Todd had a massive blowout over the past weekend. He thinks they should secure a massive payoff for telling the truth about ALL the pregnancies. He knows she is done politically and I don't think their marriage is too much longer for this world based on the way they talk to and about each other.

Sarah is still laboring under the false impression that if she just grinds her heel into the blogs, books, etc...it will eventually go away.

At least that's what she says. I think she knows the end is coming, and soon. She may be able to pay people like Breitbart TODAY...but eventually she will look around and there won't be anyone left who is willing to put their neck on the line for her. She really thought spending a few thousand and getting a couple of reporters to say they daw her "fabric covered bump" would close this chapter. And she thinks getting Breitbart to circulate manufactured ...whatever... and have Hannity ignore all the elephants in the room...will keep her base appeased.

But even she sees the writing on wall. I think the fall is going to be a big one and even people who hate her won't be able to take much delight in it because it's just going to be so, so ugly.

6:56 PM

Sharon_Too_Also

9/22/2011 03:23:54 pm

Sorry if I confused anyone - I should have identified my 22:17:42 comment as being from Anon238 Meagain. It made it look like I was Anon and that I'm surely not.

Got so excited - looks like things are going to heat up for real.

Original Lee

9/22/2011 03:30:34 pm

@FrostyAK - I posted that speculation about Tank's relationship to Sarah and Levi yesterday on IM. (I posted as Anonymous there because I was having trouble logging in with my nym for some reason.) I really think it makes a lot of sense, now that we see Tank standing off to one side during these interviews, Levi looking nervously at him, and how tangled and contradictory Levi's story has become, and the whole custody thing, which has made very little sense to me if Tank were at all competent. But if Tank is competent and paid by Sarah, if Sarah is really his client and he is being told what to do with/to/for Levi, it makes a lot more sense to me.

Ottoline

9/22/2011 03:47:25 pm

Todd is right: a massive payoff for the truth is prob their best option right now. Otherwise, they will be dying by inches in the weeks to come as it all unravels -- with zero payoff.

I wish anon238 had said more: still not meeting my two criteria. (1) tell us something we don't know AND that's important in moving things forward. (2) Demonstrate credibility. If IM posts the next bulletin as an IM post and not just a comment, that would be a good sign. But will that happen? I still think we are being played: otherwise why is this all so long-winded?

Sharon_Too_Also

9/22/2011 04:09:46 pm

Here is another post from IM that has a very plausible theory and leaves both Levi and Bristol in the duped category:

emrysa said...
given the new details that we've heard from levi's book, this is what I am thinking.

levi knew about brisdull's first pregnancy. but the plan was that brisdull was going to have to give the kid up for adoption - the plan coming from the quitter, of course. both of them were underage and had probably accepted that yeah, they couldn't take care of a kid when they had no jobs, no high school diploma's, etc. (and they would ruin her mother's career!) so brisdull was shipped off to anchorage to finish gestating and to have the baby.

I am guessing that when it was discovered that the kid had downs that cbj didn't tell brisdull, she told the quitter. it wouldn't be unusual to hide this from a 17-year old who was giving a baby up for adoption - especially if the doctor and the teen's mother were old pals.

it is conceivable that brisdull gives birth very early and knows that there are complications with the kid, but does not know he has downs. she probably didn't even see the kid after his birth. most likely left the hospital the next day without ever seeing him - this would be standard if someone was having a kid and knew it was putting it up for adoption. so at this point, all brisdull and levi know is that she had a kid, he was premature but she was told he will come through it and he will be adopted.

one month later, the quitter announces she is pregnant. of course brisdull would be pissed, knowing that her mother MADE her put her kid up for adoption all the while her mother was pregnant at the same time. I think it is conceivable that at the point of the march 5th pregnancy announcement, brisdull has no idea that her mother is planning a huge fraud with brisdull's baby.

I think the "show" at the hospital on April 18 was not so much for levi as it was for brisdull. let the both of them see the quitter laid up in bed so that neither of them suspect a thing. brisdull never saw the kid when he was born - she wouldn't recognize him. surely levi and brisdull suspect something at this point and may have for a while (and maybe brisdull really knows now), but I think it's entirely possible that the quitter took that kid and didn't tell them. name on the birth certificate was tripp, changed to trig, when the quitter adopted him.

the quitter could not take any chances that this fraud would be found out. this is why I think it is definitely possible that brisdull and levi were kept in the dark.

Venefica

9/22/2011 04:38:53 pm

Anon/Anon238/me again wrote: "She may be able to pay people like Breitbart TODAY.... And she thinks getting Breitbart to circulate manufactured ...whatever...."

This really confuses me. It's obvious that the McGinnis/Gryphen email is legitimate. Gryph as much as said so and McG. confirmed it in a statement to Mediaite: http://www.mediaite.com/online/exclusive-joe-mcginniss-says-andrew-breitbarts-explosive-email-is-really-a-dud/

Why would SP have to pay Breitbart to post such a big story? He'd pounce on it!

Why does "me again" assert that Breitbart's story was manufactured?

My head's spinning.

V ictoria link

9/22/2011 07:01:33 pm

I'm traveling with only intermittent internet.

First, Brad, I enjoyed your BI paper.

And I am very intrigued by the idea that SP has been paying people to lie for her. It will be all the more delicious when it comes out - what a sorry media.

And everyone, I'm enjoying "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis.

SHOW US THE EMAILS

9/22/2011 09:55:13 pm

Given what anon238/meagain's lawyer has said about the loss of "expectation of privacy" of group emails sent by Sarah - let's see them.

mistah charley, ph.d.

Exp:Nov.05/08

9/22/2011 10:07:52 pm

Big sigh here.

My husband watched The View and determined Joe is a bit creepy. Our discussion about that (my husband is a pretty reasonable guy) was interesting - he thinks moving in next door to her was weird. I told him that's exactly the spin that's being put on it.

Author moves in to write his book, and SP claims to feel violated. How much more weird is it that you allow cameras in your home, following you around, documenting your 'life'? That's not creepy by comparison?
Reality TV has become so acceptable that nobody recognizes real boundaries anymore.
My husband gets that; but he thinks Joe is a bit 'gossipy', he said. He thinks the book will be dismissed for that reason. In my opinion, The View hosts are gossipy, and I said that's where they took things. It seemed to me to be an obvious attempt to discredit McGinniss. I'm seeing that in his interviews.

I'm politely agreeing to disagree with my husband on McGinniss and his motives.

I find it more than creepy that SP perpetuated a huge pregnancy hoax. Much creepier than someone trying to get to the heart of who she is. If she's such an open book, she shouldn't have a problem with someone wanting to tell us all who she really is. Right? A good Christian, a good neighbour, with plenty of friends?
Wrong. She couldn't even fake that.

My question to Barbra Walters is: what if it's true? If it's true that she faked the pregnancy, why is saying it's the "worst thing" McGinniss can put in his book? Since there are so many bizarre questions around Trig, and so much profit made from him, isn't it worth questioning? Why is this accusation so awful as to negate its relevance?
The dismissive attitude of people on this fake pregnancy has bothered me for three years now. Obama's BC questions were at least treated as speculatively legitimate questions, even if I believe they weren't (since he already provided one).

Sarah has provided nothing but Bristol's pregnancy with Tripp, with no supporting information for that, either.

As for Levi, Bristol "had Trig" says a lot. That is, IF someone in the MSM picks up on his discrepancies. Four days, four months. It seems like he's laying breadcrumbs again.
IF people pick up on this, he's going to be asked to clarify. Maybe this is his plan.

I wish some of these people would just behave with intention and purpose, instead of trying to obfuscate and blur.

DebinOH

9/22/2011 10:12:00 pm

Curiouser - The story that Levi came four hours later to the hospital is insane. How could SP be on her blackberry when she was up at 4 a.m. in TX, stayed around to give a talk, a layover, an hour or so drive back to Palmer/Wasilla then was hooked up to pitocin and didn't give birth for hours after that. We are talking almost 24 hours right there without much sleep.

I say without much sleep because even though she might have slept on the plane it is pretty unlikely. I don't know too many mothers that know birth is imminent that aren't wired and wouldn't be able to sleep. We also know she didn't sleep on the layover because of the e-mail saying she was reading.

IF this all happened the way this story is now told then we need to nominate this woman for a medal. She is truly one unusual woman with powers that none of the rest of us seem to have. She is truly a miracle woman.

As far as anon - still on the fence. I would LOVE to believe that this person knows something, but it just sounds way to good to be true. Why now and not ages ago? Why drag it out for weeks?

rubbernecking

9/22/2011 11:12:17 pm

Anon238 may or may not know things...but he or she most definitely enjoys the attention.

All I know about Anon238 is what gets copy/pasted to Laura's blog. Frankly, I think the breathless excitement about his/her next comment makes us look silly. @Ottoline (Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:54:59) addressed the situation with Anon238's info very well.

I don't comment on IM. Anon238 can comment to his or her heart's content without a peep from me. Why a single sentence on Laura's blog--where he/she doesn't even bother to post--is so cage rattling...well, it's a little strange.

This person is reading his/her "reviews" on other blogs. And writing new comments about commenters on other blogs!

I am here at Laura's blog because I want to unravel Palin's birth story. If Anon238 has info to share about this topic, both Gryphen and Laura have ways to receive anonymous info. I'm not the obstacle to his/her sharing info.

Rationalist

9/22/2011 11:42:49 pm

Hey, I just had a thought. Does anyone remember if there is any outside confirmation of Todd's work schedule in Aug-October 2007? What period of time was he away on the Slope?

Given a "due date" of mid-May, it would be good to determine what the odds are that they were even in the same house when she supposedly got knocked up.

Viola-ALex

9/23/2011 12:14:53 am

I am a huge Anon238 fan. Pure, simple. She's the first sign of hope that someone who knows things is willing to talk.

My question is this. IF the AK emails that contain damaging information are non-protected, can't a citizen request them legally from the state of AK? I mean, request the emails of a certain date? Or sue for their release, arguing that they are evidence in a hoax?

I also like the idea she does read the other blogs, and that she says Sarah is made nervous by pieces of the story coming out in comments. That means that anyone of your theories could be the right one, including the one quoted from Emrysa above by Sharon-too-Also.

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 12:18:25 am

@Exp:Nov.05/08 -- I am finding Joe's book creepy. Not Joe, himself. But I'm waiting for Laura to open the discussion before I put my 2cents in.

@mistah charlie phd -- I'm with you.

Ennealogic link

9/23/2011 12:27:56 am

Newborn babies are given to the mother when the mother is awake, and then only for a short time before they are whisked away to the nursery for tests, for measuring, for monitoring, for circumcision, for eye drops, all that stuff. Newborn babies are not just left in delivery suites with the teenage boyfriend of the mother's daughter while the mother sleeps. Are they?

lilly lily

9/23/2011 12:37:42 am

I'll go with this. Bristol had a baby. Something was wrong, and Bristol and Levi who had been pressured by Sarah before the birth freaked out and agreed to farm it out, adopted or otherwise whisked away out of sight and sound.

Mama realizes baby is going to survive, has downs and is a good selling point for the fundies. Fakes pregnancy, and her children aren't any the wiser.

Until Bristol realizes the baby to be is hers, and she freaks out. Gets pregnant.

The maternal urge is there. I know I got married at 20 and had that urge very strongly within a year. Being married it was no big deal except being poor as church mice and college etc. No problem for me, it all worked out.

But in my day, if you did have a child out of wedlock, it was a considered shameful, and a girl was branded as a slut. Kew of shotgun weddings, but even that was sniggered at, and people counted the months on their fingers. Society disaproved and that disaproval had meaning.

Not anymore. Bristol has no shame at all about anything she does. She doesn't like being outed or written about negatively. She is now stuck in her role as a hypocrite.

Karen

9/23/2011 12:38:54 am

Looks like Anon me-again is ready to rumble! This is back on the Broomfield thread (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=4190158141129121771&blogID=9361564&isPopup=false&page=2)

Anonymous said...

I'm sure a few of you are wondering how my meeting went. Despite people like "rubbernecking" who theorized on Laura Novak's blog that I was going to "regretfully" announce that legal constraints precluded me from sharing anything else...(Rubbernecker, here's me giving you Bristol's fave hand gesture) I am happy to say that about 90% of things I felt needed to be disclosed to the public get the legal all clear.

Apparently when Sarah sent BlackBerry messages to 5-7 recipients at a time with NO privacy disclosure at the bottom...she basically forfeited her "expectation of privacy". Who knew?! The delicious irony here...if Sarah had just used her government email like she was supposed to, there would have been a privacy disclosure! So by trying to keep people from seeing her emails...she basically is throwing away her right to actually HAVE THEM kept from public view.

The main sticking point as far as legality went was photographs. The one I was most interested in was the one of Trig (or "original Tripp" or whatever the hell it was) in the valentine baby shirt, being propped up in a plastic hospital type baby crib.

The attorney said if Sarah had sent out this photo to multiple recipients with no privacy disclosure, it'd be one thing. But the photo in question is a cell phone photoograph OF a framed photograph, under glass, on a white shelf. It's a little blurry, you can't see the baby's ears, and even though I am 100% sure it's the same distinctively faced baby we saw in the Palin kitchen, all it would take is Sarah saying "That's not even Trig! That's my sister's baby and that photo is ten years old!" or some other twaddlebunk line...OR someone pointing out that a baby could wear a valentine shirt in April or a Santa shirt in July...and it would make the considerable risk of "stealing" a photo worthless.

The attorney advised Sarah could find it legally actionable since the photo OF the photo was taken inside her home--where she DID have an expectation of privacy.

I talked with my source after the meeting with the attorney and we agreed insofar as that photo is concerned, we are going to let Fred's book come out before considering such a risky and possibly fruitless move. We decided the attorney was correct in stating "what does it prove except a baby who resembles the newborn Trig Palin was in a hospital and wore a holiday themed shirt...at SOME point in time.

6:54 PM

(one more to follow)

Karen

9/23/2011 12:40:13 am

Me-again continued:

" I'm sure a few of you are wondering how my meeting went. Despite people like "rubbernecking" who theorized on Laura Novak's blog that I was going to "regretfully" announce that legal constraints precluded me from sharing anything else...(Rubbernecker, here's me giving you Bristol's fave hand gesture) I am happy to say that about 90% of things I felt needed to be disclosed to the public get the legal all clear.

Apparently when Sarah sent BlackBerry messages to 5-7 recipients at a time with NO privacy disclosure at the bottom...she basically forfeited her "expectation of privacy". Who knew?! The delicious irony here...if Sarah had just used her government email like she was supposed to, there would have been a privacy disclosure! So by trying to keep people from seeing her emails...she basically is throwing away her right to actually HAVE THEM kept from public view.

The main sticking point as far as legality went was photographs. The one I was most interested in was the one of Trig (or "original Tripp" or whatever the hell it was) in the valentine baby shirt, being propped up in a plastic hospital type baby crib.

The attorney said if Sarah had sent out this photo to multiple recipients with no privacy disclosure, it'd be one thing. But the photo in question is a cell phone photoograph OF a framed photograph, under glass, on a white shelf. It's a little blurry, you can't see the baby's ears, and even though I am 100% sure it's the same distinctively faced baby we saw in the Palin kitchen, all it would take is Sarah saying "That's not even Trig! That's my sister's baby and that photo is ten years old!" or some other twaddlebunk line...OR someone pointing out that a baby could wear a valentine shirt in April or a Santa shirt in July...and it would make the considerable risk of "stealing" a photo worthless.

The attorney advised Sarah could find it legally actionable since the photo OF the photo was taken inside her home--where she DID have an expectation of privacy.

I talked with my source after the meeting with the attorney and we agreed insofar as that photo is concerned, we are going to let Fred's book come out before considering such a risky and possibly fruitless move. We decided the attorney was correct in stating "what does it prove except a baby who resembles the newborn Trig Palin was in a hospital and wore a holiday themed shirt...at SOME point in time.

6:54 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But do not despair, comrades in arms of our war on injustice and big fat Sarah-concocted lies. I have some emails, some firsthand statements which provide verifiable dates, times, and so on. Nothing that will put her in the well deserved canvas panties and orange jumpsuit...but definitely some things she would rather keep under wraps.

Because some emails and details may make more sense with certain backstory applied, I am going to (from this point forward) be sending my posts directly to Gryphen and allowing him to choose what is most pertinent. I'm going to go ahead and tell you now to please not post over and over ask Gryphen if I have told him this or that...I promise to be as quick and thorough as possible.

Before I sign off I just want to note a couple of things. I know some people have long theorized there is a "paid" troll here. You are absolutely correct. It is a very close friend of Bristol's and they both post here and at other Palin blogs. (but here more than anywhere else) The friend of Bristol's is paid monthly and is lazy as hell lately. A member of Sarah's team set this friend of Bristol's up with an out of state smart phone and laptop. She posts under multiple names and doesn't care that the posts are obviously from the same person--it's just a job to her.

Today Sarah said they should "send Barbara Walters flowers". Whatever that means.

Sarah is getting a little yappy about bits and pieces of the real story about Trig coming out in the comments on various blogs. She and Todd had a massive blowout over the past weekend. He thinks they should secure a massive payoff for telling the truth about ALL the pregnancies. He knows she is done politically and I don't think their marriage is too much longer for this world based on the way they talk to and about each other.

Sarah is still laboring under the false impression that if she just grinds her heel into the blogs, books, etc...it will eventually go away.

At least that's what she says. I think she knows the end is coming, and soon. She may be able to pay people like Breitbart TODAY...but eventually she will look around and there won't be anyone left who is willing to put their neck on the line for her. She really thought spending a few thousand and getting a couple of reporters to say they daw her "fabric covered bump" would close this chapter. And she thinks getting Breitbart to circulate manufactured ...whatever... and have Hannity ignore all the elephants

Karen

9/23/2011 12:43:13 am

...and have Hannity ignore all the elephants in the room...will keep her base appeased.

But even she sees the writing on wall. I think the fall is going to be a big one and even people who hate her won't be able to take much delight in it because it's just going to be so, so ugly.

6:56 PM

(sorry about the repost/cutoff)

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 12:50:48 am

Folks, why do we need to copy/paste the same post from IM multiple times? It takes 5 seconds to search to search the comments page. 1) Open Laura's comments page. 2) If you are on a PC, press Ctrl-F. If you are on a Mac, press Cmd-F. 3) Copy and paste a couple of key words (e.g., comrades in arms). 4) This will show you if someone has already copy/pasted the comment.

@Rationalist, you asked about Todd's schedule. I found a few emails about Todd's schedule. It looks like he worked a week-on/week-off schedule on the slope, usually Thur-Thur.

http://www.crivellawest.net/palinAll/pdf/656.pdf

I don't know if there's an off-season for slope work. I'm assuming he worked on the slope in Aug and Sep 2007 but I didn't confirm this in any emails. I also don't know the fishing schedule. Would Todd still be in Dillingham in Aug? Maybe @FrostyAK or one of the AK'ers can comment on slope and fishing seasons.

Molly

9/23/2011 01:00:31 am

Gryphen has posted the introduction to the new babygate book.

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/09/allow-me-to-present-introduction-to-new.html

Karen

9/23/2011 01:16:26 am

@rubbernecking - My mistake, I scrolled from the bottom of the page to get caught up and didn't go up far enough to see @sharon had posted. Wish there were a delete function, but alas.

Rationalist

9/23/2011 01:19:53 am

Thanks, @Rubbernecking. Veddy interesting. Alaskans? Fishing season?

lilly lily

9/23/2011 01:21:26 am

Bristol went to a gay bar and was heckled, and she threw back that the heckler was a homosexual, which he was, and being in a gay bar no surprise to anyone. He called her mother a whore among other things.

Her mother was booed on Dancing with the Stars and they covered that up. Her mother was booed in Wisconsin and the media ignored it. Her mother is going to get booed from here on in.

Leadfoots thread @ Politicalgates.

Van Flea had adoption papers drawn up for Tripp, even though Bristol and Levi had refused.

Levi said Sarah called him her best friend.

Politicalgates will host the Cowans on Saturday and Sunday to answer questions.

THAT is a great opportunity for all who do have questions of the people who seem to be fond of Levi.

Tom link

9/23/2011 01:22:21 am

Why can't some of you just take Anon238 at face value? She's doing things at her own pace as would you. As for credibility, that's for each of us to judge. One thing for certain is that Anon isn't on Sarah's team unless this is just a ruse (doubtful). I'm an impatient person who wants all of this to happen at once but I can't control it.

Giving Griffin the info for his judgement gives me pause, however. I like that she justs shows up otherwise I'd find myself waiting (like I'm still waiting for the Pope to tell us what the Blessed Virgin Mary said to St. Lucy when she appeared to her way way back at Fatima--the disclosure was supposed to come in 1960--still waiting--yeah I have a problem with the Catholic Church, actually all of 'em).

V ictoria link

9/23/2011 01:30:43 am

I, for one, appreciate both rubbernecking's skepticism and Anon238's posts.

IvyfreeI think the fall is going to be a big one and even people who hate her won't be able to take much delight in it because it's just going to be so, so ugly.

9/23/2011 01:34:03 am

"I think the fall is going to be a big one and even people who hate her won't be able to take much delight in it because it's just going to be so, so ugly."

Oh, I don't know about that. I have a broad spectrum of appreciation. I just might delight in it. I can also delight in the fact that whither Sarah goes, so goes the Bristol, and the Willow and the Piper and the Todd.

And maybe, just maybe, Trig will wind up with people who appreciate him for what he is and make sure he gets all the help and therapy he needs to maximize his chances of living a happy life.

Ivyfree

9/23/2011 01:34:54 am

I don't know why the sentence I was copying came out on the name line. If I could correct it, I would.

Karen

9/23/2011 01:36:05 am

@Tom - I understand why people are reluctant re: Anon238/me-again after hearing from the car pool mom (post-Piper tubal), the healthcare insider (know where Trig was NOT born), Wholly Mary and mediainsider, who all sounded like they were on the inside and either they were plants or posers (WM?) or afraid (car pool mom, healthcare insider) and dropped off the blogs.

It sounds to me that Anon me-again is legitimate and is lining up her ducks before pushing out what she knows. She also sounds very intelligent, methodical and fed up, and was able to convince her Palin insider that now is the time to strike out and put an end to the grifting gravy train.

With the new babygate book, The Wild Ride, coming out right after all the media coverage of The Rogue and the Levi Johnston comedy show, she couldn't have picked a better time, IMHO.

Karen

9/23/2011 01:37:51 am

@ivyfree, because it's such an eerie quote it just needed to be emphasized. ;)

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 01:41:04 am

I don't care how many times Anon238's posts are copied and pasted. Thank you all for doing it multiple times. There's no place here for telling others what to do. Having opinions and disagreeing is fine, but setting up rules in someone else's house simply isn't done.

Tom link

9/23/2011 02:03:20 am

@Karen--I written more than once that in my experience Alaskans generally do not care about SP and want her to go away. She's become an embarrassment, not here so much as when AKers go outside. It's tiresome

So when someone like Anon238 comes forward with info though not groundbreaking but appearing to be inside the loop, why not just digest it and discuss the possibilities. We may wake up in the morning and go right here and to IM (as I do), but I assure you that we are few in numbers.

I hate it but I'm willing to let it flow. And if Anon has a problem with a few skeptics as to the provenance/authenticity/motives of her posts, well, she's allowed. Personally, I want to kiss her right on the mouth and if the source is a woman, her too (Oh my).

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 02:14:50 am

@Viola-Alex, I apologize. I did not occur to me that anyone would find multiple copies of the same comment useful.

My opinion/preference on long duplicate comments is different than yours. I obviously don't have rule-making authority. If I did, I'd create a dedicated Anon238 thread for those who wished to talk him/her.

For those who would like to search for a comment within a thread, Ctrl-F on a PC or Cmd-F on a Mac will open a search box for you. I have found this helpful for my own work and simply wished to pass on the tip.

DiOR

9/23/2011 02:16:30 am

In Leadfoot's review of Levi's book at Pol'gate, she lists the following bullet point: "Levi stresses that he can't imagine how Palin got pregnant because he never saw any affection at all between Todd and her. Todd was always in the garage and she was always hidden away in her bedroom. "

What interested me about that was that Anon238 said something about Todd sleeping in the garage (in response to something I don't remember), and some people questioned that because Levi had said he sleeps on the couch. Does anyone else remember that?

curiouser

9/23/2011 02:23:44 am

Rationalist - How much thought did Sarah put into the due date? You'd think she'd make sure it calculated out to a time she and Todd were in the same city. The original due date may not work--Sarah was traveling and her calendar doesn't account for Todd during that time period. (There are other places in the calendar that shows if Todd is 'in' or 'out'.) I think the original due date was May 25 but my link to the news report no longer works.
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=8132210

Due (possible original) May 25 - conception Sept 2
Due May 18 (revised) - conception Aug 26 '07

Sarah's calendar:

Aug 8-20 - Palin family vacation
Aug 20-31 - Wasilla/Anchorage, Aug 25 in Kenai (see note a)
Aug 31 - Sept 3 - Sarah traveled to Manley AK (Fairbanks area) with Commissioner Bishop (see note b)
Sept 4 - flight from Anchorage to Juneau

a) The calendar entry for Aug 25 reads:
"GOV DRIVING"
"KENAI - Frank Bailey, Susie Davis staffing"

Google Maps shows 199 miles between Wasilla and Kenai, 3 hours 43 minutes

b) Bishop has a cabin in Manley Hot Springs. Sarah's calendar doesn't show ANY entries during that time.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150116041077174&comments&ref=mf

link to schedules
http://www.box.net/shared/4ehka8vp11/3/31987008/331666952/1

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 02:24:43 am

@rubbernecking - thank you. [big handshake and smile across the virtual space]

@DiOr - I actually enjoyed Leadfoot's review of Levi's book (on Politicalgates.blogspot) and felt mollified in my appraisal of this young man. Her review contains a lot of good material.

I think there are many things that Levi has said (in the VF interview) that jive with Anon238. I can't cite specifics, but their info has created as vivid a picture of the Palin home as Joe's book does. In some ways, more vivid because Levi's been inside it and Anon238 knows people well who have been.

Karen

9/23/2011 02:29:28 am

@rubbernecking - thanks for the tip, very useful.

Now for another Anon238 reposting in response to @DiOR (from the Broomfield thread). The reference to Todd in the garage is at the bottom. I didn't edit because the beginning provides the context.

Anonymous said...
I can't comment on whether or not multiple babies were used. I have suspicions...and I have asked some questions which have NOT been answered to my satisfaction. Sarah and Bristol immediately accuse Gryphen of photo-shopping the ear deformity into the photos any time they are questioned about it. Sarah blew a microchip when she found out Frank included a "ruffled ear" photo in his book. She was livid. She knows he put it there to remind her what he knows. Which is everything...his "story" of the day Trig was born? Go back and read carefully--what he says is "there's no way that girl gave birth TODAY" in regard to Bristol. Which of course is completely true since Trig was born in February. Frank included that photo as an insurance policy...he wanted to be free to tell his story and make a living without fear of Sarah's famous revenge tactics. And it worked.

My thought is...it only makes her so angry because there is a huge "there" there.

Right now locals are scared to mention any "extra baby/ies" theory. It seems so far fetched. But there is a reason Bristol starts calling Gryphen a "pervert" who is "obsessed with Trig" whenever anyone dares to bring up the ear issue. There is a reason Sarah becomes apoplectic when the deformed ear/two babies theory is mentioned. Last year there was an occasion where Todd slept in the car because Sarah was raging against Gryphen so bad. Even when he tried getting away from her in the garage she kept storming in, wanting Todd to join her in her plan to "eviscerate" Gryphen. (Sarah, how's that revenge-y evisceratin' thing workin' out for ya?)

So while I can't definitively say there was more than one baby...obviously there is something they want to keep hidden, even from family. The night Todd slept in the car, the whole issue that started Sarah's tantrum was her sister asking about the ear issue. She just made a very cautious inquiry and Sarah flew into a rage and didn't speak to her for nearly a month.
9:58 AM

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 02:38:18 am

@curiouser and @rationalist,

I laughed aloud at:
"Due May 18 (revised) - conception Aug 26 '07"

Because if the official due date was actually Apr 18, then the conception was Jul 26 2007...when the Governor was in Kuwait.

So funny. She might have put alot of thought into that May due date.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/23/2011 02:38:58 am

I am an anon238 true believer. My reasoning was laid out several posts back right after she first commented at IM so I won't repeat it all here ...... but I want to point out the level of intelligence that is exhibited in her comments. It is a level of intelligence and comprehension that is absolutely non existent in a bot.

@Karen - completely agree that anon238 needs to get all her ducks in a row if that information is to have value and staying power .... and doesn't she have the right to make sure she is personally protected from retribution?

There is a slag heap of information on Palin out there but much of it is theory. If there is one iota of chance that anon238 has the 'rill deal' then I am willing to wait until she has it properly aligned.

everspring

9/23/2011 02:54:15 am

I'm sure this will date me, but I think the song "She's Come Undone" by Guess Who is pretty spot on.

I think Anon238 is waiting for the big payola and if that's so, s/he better move quick before Palin gets it first. Fred, too, also.

everspring

9/23/2011 03:00:21 am

I could really use a job right now - I think I'll call Sarah and see how I can become a paid bot.

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 03:04:30 am

I want to believe that Anon238 is trying to figure out how to best spend her time and energy. She could tell tales all day long, but to stop Palin she needs some verifiable material. Working with G/J may mean a partnership that will cut to the chase instead of just more fingerpointing and wild stories (which is what Joe's book reads like, to me.)

Just having two people (almost on record) swear that the Palins sleep in separate buildings and never show affection is getting closer to proving the Trig conception a lie.

Laura Novak link

9/23/2011 03:06:36 am

Couple of housekeeping things:

- My apologies for not posting a new thread. I am waiting for my copy of Joe's book to arrive. Standing at mailbox, hand at forehead, tapping foot. No idea what's taking so long. Should have bought the Kindle. When it arrives, I'll put up a new book thread so we can discuss specifics.

- I appreciate anyone posting the Anon comments. I can't always find them, though I now know that Cmd F can search in this field too. Sometimes people don't know that others have copied here. So, I have no issue with that. Please, if you find them at IM, paste them here too. There is a reason no one has made a separate post with them all. But that's on the QT.

- I have issue with anyone apologizing for their typos or wrong homonyms. Other than the troll, we've all established that we know the English language. Mistakes are welcome here. Do not apologize.

- That's right: no criticizing one another. But that's really not an issue here. You are an amazing community of smart people. I love it.

- Now I have so much to add to this conversation. Will try to marshall my thoughts in another comment. But sounds like I need to go to IM to read about "Fred." :-) Thanks everyone!!

Tom link

9/23/2011 03:08:40 am

@everspring

'Guess Who' group. Stupid name but one of the all time great rock singers, Burton Cummings.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 03:13:33 am

Bristol is well on her way to becoming her mothers clone.

The man who asked if she rode Levi like that, is only saying aloud what people watching the bull riding will think. While he was probably drunk, he was honest in saying what many people do think.

BRISTOL wasn't out with her friends, she was out with her camera crew for her reality show and loved the fight. She LOVED it. Probably thinks she will be another hit like snooki with bar brawls. A bar brawl when snooki got socked in her face is what made snooki.

The teens seem to thrive on this confrontational brawling.

If the producers don't want it in for her reality show they will edit it out or splice it to make her more interesting to her bots.

Feisty Bristol defends mom when she is called a whore. Yup. Real middle school fodder.

I'm surprised she didn't offer to duke it outside with the slightly inebriated guy.

Like mother, like daughter. Bristol is used to fighting with her own mother, or whoever gets in her way.

Some people do get a adrenalyn charge or rush from sqabbles. I think Bristol is one of those people.

Ottoline

9/23/2011 03:17:26 am

Due date fans: The (forged or altered) MD letter is where we see in writing (a supposed quote by CBJ) that SP was in week 35 when she delivered Trig.

curiouser

9/23/2011 03:19:25 am

rubbernecking - Sarah pretty much raises suspicions no matter which date. The original official due date of May 25 implicates Bishop (Have you seen Click Bishop?), April 18 makes Bailey a suspect but at least Todd may have been available, and then there's Kuwait.

And many thanks for the search trick!

curiouser

9/23/2011 03:34:27 am

Ottoline - 35 weeks early on April 18 makes May 23 the due date.

This puts Sarah on the hot seat. Would it be worse for her to admit to a pregnancy hoax or to being impregnated by Bishop (assuming it can be proved that Todd wasn't there)?

NSG

9/23/2011 03:37:04 am

Heads-up, all.

From the Broomfield comments, Anon238/Me again...

"Yes, 6:47 is me.

"Gryphen, please publish my last post. It's really important to me that what I said is "out there"."

Guess I won't be getting much else done today!

Here's the link so others can join me in nervous refreshing:
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=4190158141129121771&blogID=9361564&isPopup=false&page=2

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 03:48:15 am

@curiouser, I just recently came across the name Click Bishop and I've been curious about him.

I've been working on a comparison of when/what Bristol and Bailey said about learning of Palin's pregnancy. Both Bristol's and Bailey's books seem to say they learned about the pregnancy on 3/3/2008 when Palin was in Seattle. It appears Todd was in Juneau at this time and had a meeting with Click Bishop.

When I searched the Palin emails, Todd seemed to have many interactions with Click. However, there's no mention of him in Bailey's book or in Going Rogue.

I know he worked in the AK Dept of Labor but I don't understand why exactly Todd would be meeting with him. Can you shed any light on this?

Sharon_Too_Also

9/23/2011 03:58:54 am

This came before the anon238 comment that NSG posted:

Anonymous said...
Point for clarification--

When I say Breitbart manufactured "whatever", I am not trying to say he fabricated the email. I remember months and months ago Gryphen mentioning Joe asked for more proof. So the actual email is no big deal--it shows Joe won't go to print without proof. I think they call that journalistic integrity. Obviously Breitbart wants people not to have the "aha!" moment...whereby the realize Joe DID find more proof, more people to talk to, and so on...in the intervening almost year between when the email was written and when it was released.

No, what I mean is Breitbart is manufacturing (or trying to) this line about Joe publishing a "fraud". Breitbart and Sarah are 100% in collusion...well, Breitbart and Sarah's TEAM are in collusion; Sarah is really just on the sidelines.

The major issue now, of course...how did Breitbart come to have that email?

Given who we KNOW is at the top floor of The Palin Facade pulling the puppet strings...it's very interesting to consider how Gryphen's private communications ended up being gleefully lambasted by one of the most vile, vitriolic nutjobs in RW media.

6:47 AM

Then another commenter left this:

Anonymous said...
Anon 6:47, are you "me-again"?

Thanks.
7:56 AM

Thats when anon238 came back with this:

Anonymous said...
Yes, 6:47 is me.

Gryphen, please publish my last post. It's really important to me that what I said is "out there".

9:15 AM

Now you've got the whole story .......

Sunshine1970

9/23/2011 04:01:23 am

Gosh. I'm not going to get anything done today, I can see...Bristol, Barbrawls, Breitbart and Hacked Emails, It'sMeAgain, "Fred..."

Too much excitement...

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 04:02:58 am

Anon238 "Meagain" commented at 6:47am prior to what NSG just pasted.

"Point for clarification--

When I say Breitbart manufactured "whatever", I am not trying to say he fabricated the email. I remember months and months ago Gryphen mentioning Joe asked for more proof. So the actual email is no big deal--it shows Joe won't go to print without proof. I think they call that journalistic integrity. Obviously Breitbart wants people not to have the "aha!" moment...whereby the realize Joe DID find more proof, more people to talk to, and so on...in the intervening almost year between when the email was written and when it was released.

No, what I mean is Breitbart is manufacturing (or trying to) this line about Joe publishing a "fraud". Breitbart and Sarah are 100% in collusion...well, Breitbart and Sarah's TEAM are in collusion; Sarah is really just on the sidelines.

The major issue now, of course...how did Breitbart come to have that email?

Given who we KNOW is at the top floor of The Palin Facade pulling the puppet strings...it's very interesting to consider how Gryphen's private communications ended up being gleefully lambasted by one of the most vile, vitriolic nutjobs in RW media.

6:47 AM

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=4190158141129121771&blogID=9361564&isPopup=false&page=2

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 04:06:56 am

Does anyone know if there's a consolidated list of Todd's travel expenses somewhere? I'm trying to nail down Todd's travel for the first week of March 2008.

Sharon_Too_Also

9/23/2011 04:14:40 am

I can see that some of the problem from comment overlap is just a product of the blog design :-)

PugsWuv

9/23/2011 04:15:30 am

rubbernecking, I believe someone said Todd, Willow, and PIper flew to Juneau on the 1st. It was on a discussion that was refuting Levi's story of how the family found out about Trig. The dates definitely don't match up. Sarah couldn't have been home in Wasilla as Levi said when he supposedly came over.

Bloggers have been saying Bristol was around people, at least one has been spoken to. This does not put her at home. She was in Anch until May.

Levi is a bad liar and his writers are fools.

He doesn't realize he's made himself into a bigger joke than before.

PugsWuv

9/23/2011 04:17:54 am

I fail to see how Joe's book could have been meticulously proofed. He misidentifies Palin kids in it, runs with lies and says they're rumors, and tells lies (told to him) about student Sarah.

There are some nasty liars who spoke to him,

Brad Scharlott

9/23/2011 04:18:25 am

Hey everyone,

I've started a Truthometer page for Sarah. Check it out:

http://palintruthometer.blogspot.com/2011/09/blog-post.html

Brad

nogravity

9/23/2011 04:23:02 am

I think the next thing to look at is John McCain. And for us oldbies time to resurrect the the saying from 1974

'What did he know and when did he know it?'

Because this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 04:23:28 am

Well, it sure sounds like the only way Breitbart could have that email is from a Fox insider. Is it Ailes generating ratings, as Joe writes in his book? That Ailes cares nothing for politics, only ratings.

Luckily

9/23/2011 04:24:21 am

Lilly, she was out with her friends, Marissa and Jacob. If you think she "loved" that, you need help. She started off polite by simply asking him why he would say that. He continued to be drunk and rude. She stayed pretty calm until the very end when they started screaming more rude things.

Yes, she should have MAYBE just walked away at the end, but you can't fault her for defending her mother.

My best friend, who is gay, WILL beat up any person he feels is being hateful towards people who aren't asking for it. If you continue to ignore these crazy, rude people, they will keep at it. It's not about attention, it's about unhappiness within themselves.

Liberals generally live off emotion and not sense and rational thinking. This is a huge reason these things happen.

Aliexa R

9/23/2011 04:29:54 am

I think there are many things that Levi has said (in the VF interview) that jive with Anon238. I can't cite specifics, but their info has created as vivid a picture of the Palin home as Joe's book does. In some ways, more vivid because Levi's been inside it and Anon238 knows people well who have been.

---

Levi also contradicts specific things in that interview, like saying Sarah doesn't cry and then saying he has seen her cry.

AND he wasn't even dating Bristol in the first half of 07. Does Levi remember (ha) how busy Sarah was, how often she, Todd and the kids were not in Wasilla?
Levi book=fabrication. Esp considering how popular their home is now.

He had to make himself into the better person by bullshitting these bizarro stories.

curiouser

9/23/2011 04:32:09 am

rubbernecking - I don't have any answers besides confirming that Sarah's calendar places Todd in Juneau on Mar. 3. I just found an interesting email from Sarah to Janice Mason (lots of cc's, including Todd), dated Sept 7 2007:

"PIs note Sat and Sun trip to Manley to meet with Commish Bishop shouldnt be noted officially as
"personal" or vacation as it was my opportunity to speak with DOL - but I dont need to charge the
state per diem because we stayed in click's friend's cabin and we brought our own food.
Official travel, but no per diem/meal allowance for the two days. Thanks "

Why would they stay in Click's friend's cabin when Click had his own? And where was Todd?

Liiza

9/23/2011 04:32:38 am

Dior, in one interview recently, Levi said Todd was in the chair and Sarah slept on the couch. I will find it.

Ugh, lies. Yet MSM is stupid.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 04:33:17 am

Well I'm not one to tell someone who knows better than I do what Bristol does or doesn't feel.

It is an opinion on my part, that Bristol loves to fight, gets a rush from it.

Maybe someone should ask Mercede, or the high school kids she called fags on their own internet space, when they said the didn't think much of her mothers reality series. They weren't homosexual, and they weren't in her space, insulting other than expressing their opinion, or a gay bar.

It seems to be her prefered insult.

Everyone travels around with their dear friends with a camera crew.

Why?

curiouser

9/23/2011 04:34:12 am

Also...The trip to Manley/Fairbanks appears to have been by car--no air travel notations on calendar.

everspring

9/23/2011 04:34:28 am

I call bulls**t on Bristol's bull-riding episode. Probably staged to trump up ratings.

curiouser

9/23/2011 04:34:47 am

I should have said: car or private plane.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 04:48:05 am

Over at Breitbart tv the comments are typical. regarding the bar incident.

"I'de cave in his skull with my boot".

another one. "Typical libtard picking on a GIRL. I woulda stomped on his guts and p*ssed on his face aftewards".

Sunshine1970

9/23/2011 04:50:27 am

@Luckily:
You said "Liberals generally live off emotion and not sense and rational thinking. This is a huge reason these things happen. "

No. This is not a liberal/conservative thing. It's human. And not all humans. You should have said "Some humans generally live off emotion and not sense and rational thinking."

I'd put Sarah Palin in that group of humans as well as that guy in the bar. And I don't know his politics.

9/23/2011 04:54:24 am

Brad: I LOVE your new Palin-Truth-o-meter:

http://palintruthometer.blogspot.com/

I think you should list # of contributors, too -- so people who pledge $1 are counted too. Like Obama did with his election contributors -- showing a huge number of small contributors.

Ottoline

9/23/2011 04:55:00 am

Ooops: O = Ottoline.

leva

9/23/2011 05:01:16 am

Laura says "There is a reason no one has made a separate post with them all."

I sitting out here in blog audience-land being very, very, very patient. I'm glowing with virtue every time I don't type:

tell
tell
TELL

Floyd M. Orr link

9/23/2011 05:09:35 am

Anonymous said in a comment at IM:

"Might Bailey, or one of those three musketeers, leaked the e-mail to Bretbart to get back at Joe for releasing their manuscript? Joe may have copied one/all of them to ask for confirmation as well."

7:28 AM

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!. Not Bailey, though.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 05:21:27 am

Breitbart promises more on McGinniss and his book.

Perhaps he has done some hacking? I can't see McGinniss leaking his own e-mails to someone like Breitbart.

Joe said he left out 90% of what people told him. I'de love to know that 90% if the 10% is so disturbing to her bots.

Also Bristol and her family are always ready with homophobic insults, so why or why did Bristol go into a gay bar with her buddies and a camera crew.

Also she was instructed to hold one arm up to balance herself on the bucking bull. But she didn't.

Viola-Alex

9/23/2011 05:25:29 am

@Floyd - are you implying it was the mudflats duo who leaked the email, or is that in the comment? I can't tell. Surely, the mudflats people wouldn't stoop that low, would they?

Brad's Truthometer

Bristol's fake fight

Fred's book

Anon238

How can I (or you?) get anything done today?

NSG

9/23/2011 05:27:20 am

Further Anon238/MeAgain update, from Broomfield comments. It refers to the post she wants G/J to approve, but it's not it....

"Nobody spazz out. Gryphen has not published one of my posts but it is NOT a "juicy" one. Obviously there is one or more details which he has decided isn't fit for public consumption. I trust him.

"BUT...Jesse, that post was really, truly important to me. Can you copy it, remove whatever item you feel is better left unsaid, and then paste/repost?

"I have been SO busy trying to catch up on work after my vacation, going through two solid years of correspondence trying to unearth as much verifiable "dirt" or info-laden statements regarding Sarah...family obligations, and so on--I just really don't have the stamina to re-type it.

"Just for clarity's sake, Gryphen...it was the post where I ended it by saying I didn't want to wake up with a dead moose head in my bed."

Well, now....

curiouser

9/23/2011 05:30:40 am

There's a June 27-30 '08 email exchange (#1466) between Erika and Todd re Sarah's June 12-14 Fairbanks trip. Poor Erika is trying to figure out IF Todd went and whether he had any meeting so they could put in for TA.

"If I don't hear back, since you're out fishing- I'll put the purpose as: To meet with the Governor and Commissioner Bishop to discuss workforce development issues."

I think it's likely that the Sept '07 trip was also a family trip that Sarah tried to present as a business trip so she could collect per diem. Unless someone discovers that Todd was working on the slope over the '07 Labor Day weekend, I don't think the trip puts a hole in her pregnancy story.

Sarah's reimbursement to the SOA for inappropriate travel and per diem was likely way too small.

Ottoline

9/23/2011 05:48:34 am

Brad: in addition to listing # of contributors, I also suggest adding a date to each level of the thermometer as it goes up. Like right now: I KNOW it's higher than $15.4k because I just contributed, and what I'm wildly curious about is how high will it go after this initial announcement, and then after each future PalinHoax issue that appears in the press.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 05:50:27 am

More comments to show what sweet people go to Breitbarts swill pail... regarding Bristol and her adversary in the gay bar.

"Anothe candidate for an overdose of full metal jacket lead"

"I would stomp a mudhole in that guys face"

"A deviant homosexual calling a Godly Christian woman a fing bitch and a whore"

I think the man in the filming of Bristol and her excellent adventurous nite out needs a bodyguard now.

There are a lot of homosexuals in the world, and Bristol and her family seems to hate them all with possibly one exception.

I wonder how many are in her reality show filming crew?

Ottoline

9/23/2011 05:50:29 am

Just sub out the word "Current" with the date as you update the total.

Molly

9/23/2011 05:52:13 am

Brad...love the idea. I have just pledged a few dollars...it's not that much as I have two kids in college.

SLQ

9/23/2011 05:52:33 am

"Might Bailey, or one of those three musketeers, leaked the e-mail to Bretbart to get back at Joe for releasing their manuscript? Joe may have copied one/all of them to ask for confirmation as well."

But how would one of them have gotten it? Jesse has said he didn't share e-mails with anyone. Why would Joe have shared it with any of those three?

lilly lily

9/23/2011 06:08:54 am

Wonkette is featuring the great bull rodeo ride now... truly you can't make this stuff up.

I'm going to fix myself a great bloody mary with a special mix I bought yesterday. Lots of clam juice. Cold clammy weather and it is nearly time for dinner and forgetting Sarah Palin and her seed exist.

The very, very best comment, that made me laugh for while.

"Is Tripp pregnant yet?"

Incidently, take a good look at the message on her shirt. A big, big, big, giant Christian cross. Tell me she isn't her mothers clone, tell me.

Next message on her shirt will feature a Star of David.

DebinOH

9/23/2011 06:22:40 am

Okay, is anon the same poster who posted on other sites (ages ago) that when we knew what happened we would feel sorry for Sarah? Does anyone else remember this? It was more than likely on IM or Palingates.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 06:26:14 am

Huffington has gotten onto the great bull ride and confrontation story.

I expect Faux news will feature it tonite.

She must be ecstatic. Anon said Sarah told Bristol to spice it up.

I wonder if it was scripted.

Ottoline

9/23/2011 06:34:48 am

Curiouser: I'm not saying there aren't other "due dates" presented, only that this is what the MD letter said. Palin cannot choose an alternative "impregnated by" story because she was not pregnant. Again, an explanation of the Mar 14 photo is needed and can't be done. Ditto re the other key photos.

Alternative due dates have been implied by other quotes from SP, notably the 7.5-month delivery (in Anch). And because there was no pregnancy, the fiction of any due date except an imaginary one is obvious.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 06:40:40 am

The heckler was real. Name Stephen Hanks. TMZ tracked him down.

He said he would do it again.

Wow. Another Joe the Plumber moment.

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 06:41:32 am

Bristol's book said she and Willow were in Wasilla in "early March" when Willow found an ultrasound. Bristol said she called Todd and he called her back when his flight landed in Juneau. Bristol was shocked by the baby news, but recovered sufficiently the next day to shop for baby clothes. The day after Bristol's shopping trip, her mother announced the news to the press (which we know was 3/5/2008). So Bristol's OFFICIAL story is that she learned about the pregnancy on 3/3/2008, 2 days before Palin told the AK press.

In Levi's book he says that Bristol called him on a weekday in March. Todd wasn't around and he says Palin was in her bedroom. How does Levi know Palin is at home? He doesn't say. Is it possible that Bristol and her mother had an understanding where Levi could visit on nights when Todd was away? Is it possible that Levi was so accustomed to visiting Bristol when Palin was locked in her bedroom and Todd on the slope, that Levi just assumes Palin is also home this night?

In Bailey's book he said he, Kris Perry, and Ivy Frye learned about the pregnancy news by email on 3/3/2008 when Palin was in Seattle. He said Palin's spokesperson was contacted about the pregnancy on 3/4/2008 by a radio host Dan Fagan and this forced Palin to update the AK press on 3/5/2008. Bailey quotes emails for all of this. AKM reviewed the emails so I believe this information is accurate.

I fully expected Bristol's book to contain a whitewashed, everybody-holding-hands tale of learning about Palin's pregnancy. But it did not. Bristol makes it clear that she and Willow learned about it by accident, two days before Palin spoke to the press in Juneau. And when Bristol wanted to know the truth, she says she called her father, not her mother. Palin spent more effort to update her staff and the press than her own daughters. Sad.

Even Palin's own hagiography "Going Rogue" doesn't try to sell us a tale of a wise, compassionate mother breaking the news to her loving daughters.

Assuming Bristol could tell any whopper she wanted about learning about her mother's pregnancy, why would she choose this one? It does not reflect well on the family or Palin. Bristol could have written that Palin told her about the pregnancy January, swore her to secrecy, and that Bristol kept the secret until March. But she didn't.

I think this unflattering story about Palin is probably closer to truth than fiction. Bristol and Willow learned about the pregnancy plan by accident and confirmed it with their father, not their mother.

P.S. I'm a Mudflats fan. I thought her book was the perfect scenario: disillusioned insider (Bailey) teamed with a no-nonsense Palin critic (Devon) using actual emails as source. I wish McGinnis had handled the situation differently.

Just kiss

9/23/2011 06:56:08 am

Lilly, to remind you, Bristol never said the word fag. She wasn't the one with controversial language. And Mercede does not want someone addressing HER comment language. Rude awakening for her, as she is no stranger to tongue lashings or the worst words imaginable.

Conscious at last!

9/23/2011 07:09:32 am

If my memory is correct, our Anon238 friend told us in a recent post that SP advised BP to do "anything it takes" to move her reality show forward.

Well, I'd have to say that this truly stupid stunt certainly qualifies as
"anything it takes."

I am still amazed that people like SP and BP crave attention so badly that they agree to humiliate themselves, over and over again.

FrostyAK

9/23/2011 07:10:24 am

The only thing I could find about fishing schedules is this:

http://www.alaskafishingjobsnetwork.com/getting-a-job/alaska-fisheries-calendar-and-seasons/

As I don't like fish, I don't go fishing... so have no personal knowledge of openings.

Molly

9/23/2011 07:11:50 am

Lily, ignore the trolls. I can't even begin to fathom what they are trying to express.

I do enjoy your posts however.

Ottoline

9/23/2011 07:13:09 am

Re the leak of McG's letter -- there's nothing bad in the letter. It's a recounting of questions and issues even the most pro-IM contributor has asked about at some point. I know I have. It has a slightly hostile tone, but not really that bad among people passionate about knowing the straight scoop. It makes a nice summary of all the issues McG wanted to discuss (and presumably did).

And the fact that it's dated January guarantees that it fails to make BB's overall point, which would be poor research on the part of McG.

Gryphen posted some weeks ago about the cooperative interaction between him and McG. It was good to read that, esp so far before this ridiculous BB thing.

Lots of shiny objects meant to deflect airtime from McG's main points: deception, Babygate, the usefulness of reading his book.

9/23/2011 07:16:08 am

Bristol and Levi are both hot heads. After Tripp was born, all they did was fight. Shed say something, hed yell back. Old news. Things were never peachy. What I think is funny is how complacent Sadie is with Levis new set of lies. She's the one who said their relationship was never solid. But we know this, since 08.

Because levis chosen the deceitful path, he's already having a hard time with interviews and staying on his script.

FrostyAK

9/23/2011 07:49:52 am

Brad, your Truthometer needs a Paypal button. Makes things much easier for people to donate on the spur of the moment and not forget. If you collect $50,000 and it is never convincingly applied for then you can donate it to a special needs charity. A real one, not the fakes that hire $P to give speeches.

Specify what you will do with the money if no one collects it.

Brad Scharlott

9/23/2011 07:53:10 am

Frosty: Pledges only, no money changes hands.

FrostyAK

9/23/2011 07:54:55 am

Seems my prior post went to cyber hell. So here is the AK fishing schedule for whoever asked for it:

http://www.alaskafishingjobsnetwork.com/getting-a-job/alaska-fisheries-calendar-and-seasons/

lilly lily

9/23/2011 08:17:20 am

The Palins really don't have a clue.

If Bristol is going to respond to every insult, (without her came clue and yes girl ) she is going to be in for a really harsh awakening.

The real world out here is not afraid of her family and their bots. The Wasilla mafia only works in Alaska, not West Hollywood.

Bristol is insulated and has been babied along by the media. Right now she has her camera crew and the others on the show sucking up to her. After all it is work.

I wonder how soon the feistiness dissipates when she will be when the merry go round stops and the money stops rolling in.

curiouser

9/23/2011 08:21:00 am

I wonder if Bristol's contract stipulates there can't be any homosexuals on the crew.

curiouser

9/23/2011 08:23:25 am

Didn't Bristol have some publicity awhile back that claimed she was easing back from the right wing social agenda?

lilly lily

9/23/2011 08:25:05 am

Without her camera crew and her yes girl.

correction... I wonder how soon the feistiness dissipates when she bill be left alone when the merry-go-round grinds to a halt and the easy money stops rolling in.

At the mall and the comments box hid the bottom on the computer here. Going to see THOR at the library. The true story . The plots are almost as inventive as the birthing story of Trig.

rubbernecking

9/23/2011 08:49:31 am

Oy. I'm pretty sure I'd also be a screwed-up idiot if my mother made my teenage love life an international scandal before I even graduated high school.

The problem with bars is that you're likely to encounter angry drunks who say stupid things. Engaging with angry drunks is like engaging with trolls.

The problem with participating in a reality show is that your producer has big incentives to put you in embarrassing or confrontational settings.

I hope someone who loves this girl stages an intervention. Bar brawling is a very sad way to make a living.

lilly lily

9/23/2011 08:55:53 am

Now I read it was TMZ that did the filming of the incident and bull riding. And it was TMZ that located the man. Starlets alert TMZ about their whereabouts when they want publicity.

Also the man has a twitter site, and is very much against Palin. I haven't gone into his site.

Leadfoot_LA is on the story, and is going to see if she can interview the man.

The story hasn't ended.

mxm

9/23/2011 09:14:49 am

The bull riding does not seem like wholesome Massey brothers entertainment.

mxm

9/23/2011 09:16:56 am

From Gryphen to Anon238

Gryphen said...

I apologize Anonymous 11:07, I have no idea why one of your comments was deleted. that does happen occasionally because Blogger can be a little temperamental.

However once they are deleted I am unable to retrieve them. Sorry.

If you want to keep that from happening in the future it would be very helpful if you would sign up for a Google account (No personal information necessary), or send me that e-mail that you keep promising to send.

Right now you are making people work much too hard to find your comments and it is really time to start sending your information to me directly.

Your identity will remain safe.

And no, I was not hacked by Breitbart.

Laura Novak link

9/23/2011 09:18:11 am

Bristol in a Bar with a Bull. And a drunk whom she can tell is a friend of Dorothy's. Make.It.Stop.

My Rogue arrived. Diving in to Chapter 19. Discussion to follow. Everyone do their homework. New post soon.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL. Thank you.

Rationalist

9/23/2011 09:32:06 am

Your are a great mistress of ceremonies, Ms. Laura.

Rationalist

9/23/2011 09:33:47 am

Aaaaah! And I know I'm defying you, but "you're," not "your are."

FrostyAK

9/23/2011 09:41:46 am

Does anyone think that the negative publicity for McG's book will increase sales? Negative publicity sure seems to have worked for AK's Drama Queen.

mistah charley, ph.d.

9/23/2011 09:46:18 am

the drunk guy who insults her mother has polarized his twitter identity around palin, it turns out, and has a picture posed with levi dated last year

either this coincidence is the universe showing its sense of humor, or the "reality show" producers recruited him to spice up the event

who knows if it's good or bad?

Cyn

9/23/2011 11:01:26 am

@luckily Bite me, how's that for liberal emotion?
Could it be,that you think liberals" live off emotion and not sense and rational thinking." Since liberals care about other people, not just their own bottom line. Yes, liberals are very concerned that children go to bed hungry, that people are losing their homes and end up living on the streets. That public education in many areas of this country is not worth much. Ok then I am guilty of being senseless and incapable of rational thought. You caught me, feel better?

On to important stuff. I recall reading about Palin not being able to drive carpool after Pipers birth and a tubal also, but i remember the person being angry and eye rolling, because the tubal was done though the belly-button after Pipers birth. There was not open surgery, although Palin acted like she had been hacked to near death.

I am still stuck on Palins comment to Frank B about having a baby while the Gov. So here is a theory, somebody was pregnant and was willing to give the baby to the Palins. Real due date was May 25th, but baby was born really early in Feb. Palin thought the baby would stay in the Hospital until May 25th, but was released in April. This theory would account for a lot of the BS surrounding Trigs birth, the not pregnant Sarah, the wild ride, the pic's of trig with Sarah's parents where he really dose not look like a new born. It is a theory,anything is possible with the Palin's and their traveling circus.

Cyn

9/23/2011 11:07:02 am

Sorry, I feed the troll. Ick

Friday the 23rd 2011

9/23/2011 11:09:20 am

Oh, my. The video of Bristol and the bull is somewhat beyond my immediate rational comprehension. The camera seems to be a professional one, mounted on a tripod, or a VERY steady hand. My guess is that either this was staged or the parties involved are unbelievably stupidly unaware. I vote for Option 1. Marshall Mcluhan, where are you?

9/23/2011 11:27:44 am

i posted this theory at the tail end of another post. What if RNC Trig was always Trig, and Ruffles was a stand in?

Children given up for adoption after birth sometimes go from the hospital to a foster home for a short period before going to adoptive parents. So the Palins kept Trig hidden away, cared for by Dar Miller or someone else, and wait for the arrival of a suitable foster to arrive in the right time window. Maybe CBJ or one of the church people knew of one or two women expecting and planning to adopt out their children? Maybe from the church which burned. Ruffles arrived and was unveiled. After a few weeks passed, Ruffles went to his or her adoptive family and no one was the wiser.

Balzafiar

9/23/2011 12:58:29 pm

I'm still thinking over this statement from Levi's book:

"She was the one who was supposed to have that kid..."

Huh?

I don't have a record of what Bristol might have written in her epic story, but to me that statement could well be saying this:

"It was our baby until it was taken from us..." or "It was supposed to be our baby but Sarah took it from us..." -- or any other way you might want to say it.

Does anyone agree with my thoughts?

search4more

9/23/2011 01:11:13 pm

Brad,

Your idea is fun and provocative and might generate some publicity. You have to be careful though who you accept pledges from. You need to make sure they have the funds should they need to pay out. The economy is terrible and a lot of people are in a very vulnerable financial position. It would be a tragedy if say someone couldn't pay their mortgage because of the pledge.

I know it's unlikely that anyone could claim, but consider how many people successfully commit perjury in court and how many people forge documents, ...or how many people commit various types of financial fraud. She was the governor of a state, the people currently in power in the state have strong links with her and she is a millionaire. It's not impossible that she could rustle up an official birth certificate or a good forgery and find a witness who claims to have been at the birth. It's a small risk, but it IS possible.

Your idea is good. I'm not saying it isn't. Just think through all the possibilities and cover yourself just in case. It's always good to be prepared right? ...That's the scouts motto isn't it?

The reason I fear that people may pledge without thinking carefully is because there is so much emotion around the whole Palin story. We want to expose her, but wanting something too much can cause misjudgements.

Good luck with it. Hope it works. I'm not expecting you to have to pay out.

:-)

Sherryn

9/23/2011 01:20:05 pm

I recently won a 50 dollar amazon gift card, (already have a list of thirty books to read, twelve for a college course) My first indulgence was getting Laura's book on kindle. I can't wait to read it, after sampling random parts. I love your writing style, how you flesh out your characters, and can't wait for a chunk of time to relax and give it the attention it deserves.

Thanks to Brad and Laura for doing such a great collaboration on this blog, and Brad for his articles on Business Insider.

Conscious at last!

9/23/2011 01:36:14 pm

@Balzafiar

Yes, I have the same reaction to Levi's statement.

There were other slip-ups like that in the video of his interview on the Tyra Banks Show when he talks about how old Bristol was when she gave birth..

Balzafiar

9/23/2011 02:36:26 pm

@Conscious at last

If true it would also explain the statement that "Trig was Tripp before he was Trig."

Levi and Bristol wanted the Tripp Easton Mitchell Palin name for their baby due to the hockey company name association and probably insisted on keeping the right to use the name when the first baby was taken from them. So the first Tripp Easton Mitchell Palin ended up being Trig Paxson Van Palin.

Just my two cents worth, adjusted for inflation, also too.

Balzafiar

9/23/2011 02:47:53 pm

Oops!

I wrote: "Levi and Bristol wanted the Tripp Easton Mitchell Palin..."

That last name should be Johnston! I did it again in the last sentence of the same paragraph.

I have Palin on the brain! Someone please call CBJ for me!

lilly lily

9/24/2011 12:13:52 am

I was feeling a bit sorry for Bristol in her role as a celebrity victim, but no longer... The statement by her rep on the heckling incident. Bristol WAS APPROACHED in a confrontational and inappropriate manner when TWO MEN, and blah, blah, blah.

While I thought the heckling was stupid the video I saw had someone shouting at her, barely audible, and Bristol getting out of the bull ring and going all around the ring to confront the man who had his back turned.

I don't go to bars myself, so I don't see this sort of behavior, but it seems to be prime reality show tactics.

What he said was inappropriate, what she did was confrontational. Two different scenarios here. You can't have it both ways Bristol. He was stupid and vulgar, you shouldn't have pushed it further, unless you did it for the cameras who were all around filming this.

Sorry Laura, the last I'll post on this scene out of Bristols new show. It will be edited and changed I'm sure from her reps statement. But too many people saw the original taping.

lilly lily

9/24/2011 12:19:29 am

LOL. Comments on this at Breitbarts tv, by men, wanting to stomp on then P*ss in this mans face etc.

666.

How biblical.

Balzafiar

9/24/2011 02:06:11 am

@meAgain has posted again in her usual spot, comments about criticism:

"I just needed to clear THIS up quickly--I'm not sure if this was a troll trying to discredit me or if it's true...

I saw a comment on the "truthometer" post. It said the national enquirer and e online have quoted my posts here verbatim almost and questioned whether or not I was "selling" my info.

In a word, no. In two words, HELL NO.

First of all, if I were trying to secure a payoff, would I have posted here first? That is just silly. I do not begrudge people who want to sell their Palin dirt (as long as it's true) but I am not looking for that kind of notoriety or anything like that.

IF the enquirer did "steal" my posts in whole or part...I just don't know what to think of that. Is it good that the story gets out by any means? I just don't know.

I'm also over troll bots accusing me of being media insider and others. I'm just...me. I post FROM Wasilla which Gryphen can see. And I can't help but think it's trolls who constantly attack me like the person above who insists I somehow I just "guessed" everything I said. Because I can "read people".

Really, you can't NOT laugh at them.

-Me Again

6:54 AM"

Ivyfree

9/25/2011 03:22:28 am

Bafaziar: re ""She was the one who was supposed to have that kid..."

What seventeen-year-old girl, supposedly still in school, is SUPPOSED to have any kid?

To me that indicates that since Bristol gave birth to the baby, she was supposed to have him- that is, she was supposed to be acknowledged as his mother, make the needed decisions, provide his daily care, basically be the mommy. Apparently this is the role she played with her siblings anyway.

Sarah's story about Bristol always loving babies and wanting them to rent a baby for her birthday when she was small strikes me as being a typical Sarah lie- too over-the-top, too extravagant. (I could see a kid who liked babies and played with dolls all the time, BTW- but Bristol doesn't strike me as a doll kind of girl- nor does Willow, nor Piper for that matter.)

To me the only way that Bristol could justifiably be said to feel she was supposed to have the baby was if she actually was supposed to have the baby- by giving birth to him.

I've heard that Bristol allegedly had a fit when she heard her mother was "pregnant" in March, but have never seen this verified. But if she gave birth to the baby, and high-level negotiations were going on as to where the baby would come home and how he would be cared for, and suddenly heard her mother was supposedly pregnant- well, that would justify having a fit because how could she do anything about it? Of course she could have announced publicly that the baby was hers, but that would have probably meant her mother would go on a vengeful attack on her, and she would fully know how bad that could get.

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